Kyrie Irving Signs 5 year extension (Max)

[VengefulAngel]

David Aldridge ‏@daldridgetnt 59 secs
Cavs owner Dan Gilbert announces on his account that team and Kyrie Irving have agreed on max extension and will sign July 10.
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Marc Stein ‏@ESPNSteinLine 1 min
Cavs owner Dan Gilbert just tweeted that he and Kyrie Irving have shaken hands on a max contract extension. Quite a coup for CLE out of gate

[blacknapalm]

well, that didn't take long...

[RoundMoundOfReb]

It's interesting because statistically Isaiah Thomas was just as good as Irving and by advanced stats even better but he's probably gonna get like 7-8 mil while Irving gets 18...

[lakerspng]

good for him and good move by the cavs organization.

now if Wiggins develops into the players he's capable of being... they could be a force for the next decade.

[DMAVS41]

great to hear

[bigkingsfan]

It's not like they need the cap space in the future.

[navy]

It's interesting because statistically Isaiah Thomas was just as good as Irving and by advanced stats even better but he's probably gonna get like 7-8 mil while Irving gets 18...
Watching Coach Nick? :oldlol:

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Watching Coach Nick? :oldlol:
No. Did he do a vid about it?

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

It's interesting because statistically Isaiah Thomas was just as good as Irving and by advanced stats even better but he's probably gonna get like 7-8 mil while Irving gets 18...
Thats b/c he gets Pepsi commercials

[Magic731]

It's interesting because statistically Isaiah Thomas was just as good as Irving and by advanced stats even better but he's probably gonna get like 7-8 mil while Irving gets 18...
Key word here is statistically. Irving alone will sell plenty more tickets than Isaiah Thomas could. It's also widely considered that Irving had a down year and is reasonable to think that he can get better, whereas Thomas' physical limitations might have seen him hit his peak already. Irving has the ability to single handedly win a game for you, I'm not so sure the same can be said about Thomas.

[KyleKong]

Horrible, horrible move by Cleveland.

This dude ain't worth 90 mill

[Meticode]

It's interesting because statistically Isaiah Thomas was just as good as Irving and by advanced stats even better but he's probably gonna get like 7-8 mil while Irving gets 18...
You're just basing that off of one season though. Irving has been putting up these numbers since his rookie season and he can easily get better to where he could possibly be a 25 PPG scorer. I don't see Thomas turning into that.

[Meticode]

Horrible, horrible move by Cleveland.

This dude ain't worth 90 mill
So...you don't give him the max, he turns it down and goes somewhere else for the max. Is that what you're saying you'd do?

[poido123]

money well spent.

a cornerstone star to build around and attract other big free agents for the next 6 years...

[KyleKong]

So...you don't give him the max, he turns it down and goes somewhere else for the max. Is that what you're saying you'd do?

Well ****, isn't that a spicy pickle you just put me in.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Key word here is statistically. Irving alone will sell plenty more tickets than Isaiah Thomas could.

I see this point about ticket sales brought up a lot and yeah from a business pov no doubt that Kyrie is worth the 18 mil but to me personally as a fan? I'd want my team making the best basketball move. I could care less about popularity/owner's profits.


It's also widely considered that Irving had a down year and is reasonable to think that he can get better, whereas Thomas' physical limitations might have seen him hit his peak already. Irving has the ability to single handedly win a game for you, I'm not so sure the same can be said about Thomas.

I'm not saying that Irving isn't better or close to as good as Thomas or that he doesn't have more potential. I'm saying he isn't THAT much better. He's not 10 mil better...

[J Shuttlesworth]

Curious to see how he fits in w/ the new coach

[Meticode]

Well ****, isn't that a spicy pickle you just put me in.
Well that's the likely scenario if you don't give him the max, some other team will gladly do it.

[Smook A.]

I have a feeling next season will be his best year

[MC Gusto]

Well, y'all can't make 100 "Kyrie wants out of Cleveland" threads every month anymore. :lol

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

I have a feeling next season will be his best year
By the numbers he hasnt improved since his rookie year:lol :lol :lol
all he needs to do is improve a bit to have his best year:lol :lol

[navy]

Well, y'all can't make 100 "Kyrie wants out of Cleveland" threads every month anymore. :lol
In 2019, he's gone. :applause:

Any news on Waiters?

[KyleKong]

Well that's the likely scenario if you don't give him the max, some other team will gladly do it.

Fvck being a G.M.

Too hard.

[Smook A.]

By the numbers he hasnt improved since his rookie year:lol :lol :lol
all he needs to do is improve a bit to have his best year:lol :lol
His 2nd season was his best though

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Well that's the likely scenario if you don't give him the max, some other team will gladly do it.
If they did Cavs could match. The option isn't give him max or let him go for nothing. It's give him max or trade him.

[Meticode]

By the numbers he hasnt improved since his rookie year:lol :lol :lol
all he needs to do is improve a bit to have his best year:lol :lol
I feel he would've improved this year, but bum f*ck Mike Brown has no clue how to run any offense. It's all "Play hard defense and do whatever the f*ck you want on offense."

[no pun intended]

In before PB cries out how he's overpaid and overrated.

[Meticode]

If they did Cavs could match. The option isn't give him max or let him go for nothing. It's give him max or trade him.
Why would any team trade for him when they can possibly just not give up anything and sign him outright after his rookie contract is up?

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Why would any team trade for him when they can possibly just not give up anything and sign him outright after his rookie contract is up?
Because they can't. He's an RFA meaning that the Cavs can match any contract he gets.

[poido123]

I feel he would've improved this year, but bum f*ck Mike Brown has no clue how to run any offense. It's all "Play hard defense and do whatever the f*ck you want on offense."


I expect a great season from Kyrie this year.

With proper coaching and defensive/offensive sets, this Cavs team could really come together and look totally different.

[El Gato Negro]

And kyrie gives a big middle finger to all the new york and LA media. with a extra FU to WOJ who kyrie called out on twitter this year for making bs up.

[RedBlackAttack]

http://i665.photobucket.com/albums/vv15/headbangerjosh/1229186787849.gif

Great offseason for the Cavs continues. The fact that Kyrie signed this so quickly after all of the chatter we've endured for the last year is a tremendous vote of confidence.

[RedBlackAttack]

And kyrie gives a big middle finger to all the new york and LA media. with a extra FU to WOJ who kyrie called out on twitter this year for making bs up.
He actually called out Windhorst for making sh!t up, but your point stands.

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c76/XoXSundayBest/GIFS/colbert.gif

Locked up for the next six years, Windy, you fat POS.

[JtotheIzzo]

Horrible, horrible move by Cleveland.

This dude ain't worth 90 mill

Dumb as shit is Kyle Kong

[imnew09]

Good Move. Pretty hard to sign a star in Cavs considering how well constructed and entertaining the city is

[RedBlackAttack]

Good Move. Pretty hard to sign a star in Cavs considering how well constructed and entertaining the city is
I read this post five times and I still don't understand it.

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lrbl3wTibG1qac925.gif

[poido123]

I read this post five times and I still don't understand it.

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lrbl3wTibG1qac925.gif


Think he means it's a good signing considering nobody of note wants to sign in Cleveland long term.

[Uncle Drew]

This post is a big **** you to Brian Windhorst.

[RedBlackAttack]

Think he means it's a good signing considering nobody of note wants to sign in Cleveland long term.
I know what he meant, but it is probably best not to use Google translate when you're insulting an entire city.

http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/1969701/colbert_fist.gif

[RedBlackAttack]

This post is a big **** you to Brian Windhorst.
I hope Windhorst chokes on a bratwurst.


For those of you who don't know what we're referring to, I direct you to the following which he put out there the day of our most important game since 2010 while scrapping for a playoff spot late in the season...


http://hallpassnetwork.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/Brian-Windhorst-SiriusXM-Radio.png



CtB: Last question: so there’s been a lot written this year about Kyrie being unhappy in Cleveland – that he wants to leave as soon as possible. A lot of people in Cleveland particularly have criticized that line of story for being the equivalent of picking at a scab, at the very best, to just plain not being newsworthy when the team has control over him for as long as they do. What’s your response to that criticism?

Windhorst: 2010 taught me a lot of lessons and I’m applying them the way I’m covering the LeBron free agency. I’ve written a lot of stuff this year that in 2010 I’d have been like, “What’s the point of writing that? It’s not going to happen.” Well…
And, as far as Kyrie, rumblings and stuff, with LeBron I would have let it go. Well I’m not going to let it go [now]. I’m going to talk about it and here’s the truth:
The truth is [Kyrie’s] camp has been putting out there for years – years – that he doesn’t want to be in Cleveland. That they don’t want him in Cleveland. He doesn’t like Mike Brown. He didn’t like Chris Grant. He doesn’t like Dion Waiters. He’s already gotten a General Manager fired. He might get Mike Brown fired. This is the last time – once he signs he loses all of his leverage – so this is the last time he gets to enact leverage. I know he’s said all the right things so, fine, on July 1, when they offer a max contract – which they will – and I don’t even know if he’s a max player, but you have to sign him – sign a five year, no out. That’s what a max contract is. A max contract is five years, no out. If you want out or you want three years, that’s not a max contract. You want three years? Okay, we’ll give you $12 million a year. We’re not giving you the full thing.

I’m just giving you my feel right now and my feel is that he’s not crazy about [signing the full max extension] unless he gets everything checked off across the board.

And the other thing is: if the Cavs ever dream of having LeBron, it’s not going to be with Kyrie there. LeBron and Kyrie have drifted apart in the last few years, even to the point that if the Cavs wanted to get LeBron they would maybe trade Kyrie for someone who would fit better with LeBron. And I’m not making that up. That line of thinking was not originated by me. That’s just the truth.
Now, Kyrie has been very upset by this stuff but, whether he wants to acknowledge it or not, it exists out there and I’m just saying the way it is. I’m sure Cavs fans are upset about it. The Cavs are upset about it. When I’ve written about it, the Cavs have been like “Why does this stuff have to be written about us?” I say, “It has to be written about you because this could happen.”
I think this is very elementary from Dan Gilbert’s perspective. If Kyrie wants to play for Team USA, he’s going to have to do his deal before mid-July when he goes to play for it and he’ll either take the five years or he won’t. If the answer is “no” to five years, he goes on the trade block. Period. I think it’s pretty simple.

I thought I knew Kyrie, but he’s just disappointed me this year with his immaturity. I really do think that if he will lock up for five that you have to do that. But if he starts messing around playing power games, you’ve got to trade him. Dan Gilbert has said as much. At the end of the day, if Kyrie was really a max player, this Cavs team would not be where they are. He would have carried them to much more than this. I’m not saying he has to be LeBron, but he’s only spent one day of his career above .500. I know it’s unpopular for some people, but after 2010 I’m not in the business of messing around. It’s definitely out there in the NBA that Kyrie is not happy in Cleveland – but if that’s not the case, he has a golden opportunity to prove everybody wrong and that opportunity is coming in a few months.

http://www.cavstheblog.com/?p=25410#more-25410

Kyrie responded with a flurry of tweets, basically calling him a liar.

Suck it, fatso.

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m61ifnrL1t1qfjsbk.gif

[El Gato Negro]

I hope Windhorst chokes on a bratwurst.


For those of you who don't know what we're referring to, I direct you to the following which he put out there the day of our most important game since 2010 while scrapping for a playoff spot late in the season...


http://hallpassnetwork.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/Brian-Windhorst-SiriusXM-Radio.png




http://www.cavstheblog.com/?p=25410#more-25410

Kyrie responded with a flurry of tweets, basically calling him a liar.

Suck it, fatso.

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m61ifnrL1t1qfjsbk.gif
I stand corrected on the earlier statement, this takes all of windys credibility away if he ever had any to begin with.

[buddha]

It's interesting because statistically Isaiah Thomas was just as good as Irving and by advanced stats even better but he's probably gonna get like 7-8 mil while Irving gets 18...

do these advanced statistics take into consideration advanced concepts like teammates, schemes, natural talent and potential, skills, difficulty settings (rookie, all-star, hall-of-fame??? obviously I mean rank of opposing defenses) ???

I'm not saying Irving deserves 10 million more a year than Isaiah Thomas but he is the better player and deserves more money.

[blacknapalm]

not sure how windy is really misguided there though...who's going to prove or disprove that irving wasn't frustrated at one point, especially years ago? him signing the contract doesn't disprove that dissertation.

also, what player on a rookie contract turns down a max contract? rookie contract to max contract? then factor in they just got wiggins and a competent coach that can run a princeton-like offense that has shown he can run a multiple guard set? in the east?

please reel off the long list of players that went from rookie contract and turned down a max contract. shaq maybe? that's only cuz lakers not only could make a qualifying order but beat it...and allow him to play in hollywood with automatic endorsements.

how many teams would even be in contention? lakers won't do a long-term deal unless your name is lebron or melo.

if you want to poke some of a 'reporter', good ol' broussard is open season:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BrcBuWjIEAA7AI3.png

MULTIPLE SAUCES!

[UK2K]

So...you don't give him the max, he turns it down and goes somewhere else for the max. Is that what you're saying you'd do?
Id have traded him long ago.

[DukeDelonte13]

kyrie didn't regress in his third year, he actually tried playing on the defensive end. He moved the ball around better too. His numbers dipped slightly, but he had his best basketball season in year 3, IMO.

[SexSymbol]

So...you don't give him the max, he turns it down and goes somewhere else for the max. Is that what you're saying you'd do?
Yes, he's an injury prone point guard that can't guard, lead a team or pass.
He just became incredibly overrated with that contract.
Solid 6th man on an average team, nothing more.

[RedBlackAttack]

not sure how windy is really misguided there though...who's going to prove or disprove that irving wasn't frustrated at one point, especially years ago? him signing the contract doesn't disprove that dissertation.
Years ago? That was from April. And, he clearly did not think Irving was going to sign the max. I can't imagine reading that piece and everything else he was saying whenever he got the chance and coming to any other conclusion. Make no mistake, this was not a good look for Windy.

It also can't be said enough the timing of those comments. It was literally the day of the biggest game the Cavs have had since James left... The last couple weeks of the season and the day we were playing the Hawks, who owned the 8th spot we were chasing.

Furthermore, Irving lambasted him on Twitter, saying he was lying and attempting to sabotage the Cavs' season... And that no attempts were made to contact him before going public in such a harsh manner.

At this point, I'm taking Kyrie's word for it, not Windy's. Truth is, he was/is a Chris Grant guy. Windy lost access the moment Grant was fired and he's sounded like a guy with an axe to grind ever since.

Fatso needs to stay in James' hip pocket and stay out of Cavs' gossip. I'm sick of him being looked at as some untouchable in the media. He's not. I've seen him get plenty wrong, with this just being the latest example. I remember Windy back when he was covering high school track for the ABJ, before James happened to come along and give him a career.

F#ck that guy.

[blacknapalm]

Years ago? That was from April. And, he clearly did not think Irving was going to sign the max. I can't imagine reading that piece and everything else he was saying whenever he got the chance and coming to any other conclusion. Make no mistake, this was not a good look for Windy.

It also can't be said enough the timing of those comments. It was literally the day of the biggest game the Cavs have had since James left... The last couple weeks of the season and the day we were playing the Hawks, who owned the 8th spot we were chasing.

Furthermore, Irving lambasted him on Twitter, saying he was lying and attempting to sabotage the Cavs' season... And that no attempts were made to contact him before going public in such a harsh manner.

At this point, I'm taking Kyrie's word for it, not Windy's. Truth is, he was/is a Chris Grant guy. Windy lost access the moment Grant was fired and he's sounded like a guy with an axe to grind ever since.

Fatso needs to stay in James' hip pocket and stay out of Cavs' gossip. I'm sick of him being looked at as some untouchable in the media. He's not. I've seen him get plenty wrong, with this just being the latest example. I remember Windy back when he was covering high school track for the ABJ, before James happened to come along and give him a career.

F#ck that guy.

fair enough. i didn't realize it was that recent and ya, he certainly owes lebron his career basically

[DukeDelonte13]

fair enough. i didn't realize it was that recent and ya, he certainly owes lebron his career basically


yes and no.

Windy is a talented writer and he did try and stay with the Cleveland PD to cover cavs after the decision.

Problem was that a struggling print newspaper wasn't going to come close to what ESPN had to offer.


But the timing of that nasty piece was horrible. Jason LLyod wrote a scathing Kyrie article as well a month or so beforehand. There was writing on the wall with Kyrie not being happy in town, but supposedly he loves the direction the team is going in.

Actions speak louder than words, and i'm pretty pumped that he signed this big deal.



Despite all that, Windhorst is more plugged into NBA and the cavs by proxy the the majority of the writers that cover the cavs. It's too soon to tell under the new administration which writers you can or cannot trust.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

do these advanced statistics take into consideration advanced concepts like teammates, schemes, natural talent and potential, skills, difficulty settings (rookie, all-star, hall-of-fame??? obviously I mean rank of opposing defenses) ???

I'm not saying Irving deserves 10 million more a year than Isaiah Thomas but he is the better player and deserves more money.

Irving has more potential obviously and is 3 years younger but in 2014 Isaiah was probably the better player off the eye test (a lot of that can be put on Mike Brown though).

As far as difficulty goes - Isaiah played in a tougher conference and tougher schedule.

[KyrieTheFuture]

Except the Kings had ****ing Demarcus Cousins and Rudy Gay for half the year. Makes things a lot easier when you're the third focus of the defense.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Except the Kings had ****ing Demarcus Cousins and Rudy Gay for half the year. Makes things a lot easier when you're the third focus of the defense.
:biggums:

[KyrieTheFuture]

:biggums:
He'd be the second best player on the cavs

[RoundMoundOfReb]

He'd be the second best player on the cavs
He's about as good as Deng was. I'd take all of Deng, Varejao, TT and Waiters over him. He was a huge net negative with the Raptors.

[KyrieTheFuture]

He's about as good as Deng was. I'd take all of Deng, Varejao, TT and Waiters over him. He was a huge net negative with the Raptors.
He was better with the kings doe if I remember right and Deng was absolutely atrocious just unbelievably awful it was mind blowing.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

He was better with the kings doe if I remember right and Deng was absolutely atrocious just unbelievably awful it was mind blowing.
He was better with the Bulls. That pretty much describes Rudy Gay with TO.

[wagexslave]

So...you don't give him the max, he turns it down and goes somewhere else for the max. Is that what you're saying you'd do?
I don't think there's such thing as a team other than Cleveland who is desperate enough to give an unproven player like Kyrie Irving 18m/year.

[Meticode]

I don't think there's such thing as a team other than Cleveland who is desperate enough to give an unproven player like Kyrie Irving 18m/year.
Why is he unproven?

[lilgodfather1]

I don't think there's such thing as a team other than Cleveland who is desperate enough to give an unproven player like Kyrie Irving 18m/year.
Wait did Cleveland figure out a way to circumvent the cap and sign Irving to the 10 years experience max contract? That would be awesome...

Oh you mean average, well by the time he is making that much it will be three years into the deal. He could legitimately be the best PG in the league in 3 years. Already is in the East..

[El Gato Negro]

I don't think there's such thing as a team other than Cleveland who is desperate enough to give an unproven player like Kyrie Irving 18m/year.
Do you not know how much Kyrie is making this year lol.

[Just2McFly]

I don't think there's such thing as a team other than Cleveland who is desperate enough to give an unproven player like Kyrie Irving 18m/year.
http://i3.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/783/443/d1b.gif

[Mass Debator]

He's about as good as Deng was.
Deng fckin sucks. Let another team pay him $10mil for shit.

Isaiah Thomas pretty much is the player right now that he'll be in 3-4 years. It is what it is with him, but Kyrie has superstar potential. Cavs would've fcked up if they didn't give Kyrie this deal. You can't live off the free agent market in Cleveland. If you hit gold in the draft, you lock them up. Good deal on both sides. Hope the Cavs can pick up a legit veteran to "wisen" up the team.

[Meticode]

So many people underrating Deng it's insane.

So 19/7/4 on 45% shooting while playing with a bad Achilles sucks?

[hawkfan]

So many people underrating Deng it's insane.

So 19/7/4 on 45% shooting while playing with a bad Achilles sucks?

Bring those stats to the Hawks.

[Mass Debator]

So many people underrating Deng it's insane.

So 19/7/4 on 45% shooting while playing with a bad Achilles sucks?
That was like a 20 game sample on the Bulls. Erratic shooter. Slowing down immensely. Relies on wingspan to defend now. He was probably worth his contract back then but now, anyone giving him $10+ million is :facepalm

[Meticode]

That was like a 20 game sample on the Bulls. Erratic shooter. Slowing down immensely. Relies on wingspan to defend now. He was probably worth his contract back then but now, anyone giving him $10+ million is :facepalm
25 games, and his role was completely different to begin with this year. He was asked to initiate the offense more once Rose went back down. He had to handle the scoring load more because who the hell else is going to score? Thib's played his ass into the ground over the years and he put up 19/7/4 on a bum ass achilles to where he couldn't even play back-to-backs when he was with the Cavs. Of course he'd slow down immensely with that and then given the fact you're playing on a whole new team after 9 seasons with a coach that doesn't have a clue what to do on the offensive side or just doesn't care enough.

[1~Gibson~1]

So many people underrating Deng it's insane.

So 19/7/4 on 45% shooting while playing with a bad Achilles sucks?
Theyre underrating him because of his contract. If he was only getting 2mil a year he'd be solid gold.

[Meticode]

Theyre underrating him because of his contract. If he was only getting 2mil a year he'd be solid gold.
He certainly doesn't deserve the $14.5 million he made this year. But he's worth $10 million to me when he's healthy. Like I said, Woj reporeted he'll probably get a contract worth $10-$12, I wouldn't be surprised if it's around $13 to be honest.

[aboss4real24]

where do all these ppl get these "sources" from that guys r unhappy n want to leave? Like wtf r hangn out with these players?

the fact kyrie signed so quickly shows he never wanted to leave

Gud move by Cle , dude is gnna b a beast

[RedBlackAttack]

Can I just say that these constant comparisons between Kyrie and Isaiah Thomas are both ludicrous and head-scratching. First of all, the same people making the comparisons, which are completely based on box scores are probably also the ones who were likely diminishing Kyrie in his first two years as being all numbers, no substance. People use statistics when it suits them.

Second, Thomas had a really good year. He probably stacked up well statistically against most point guards in the league. The guy averaged 20+ points and 6+ assists on 45+% shooting.

He had a nice season. Props to him. Let's see if he can do it consistently before everyone starts comparing him to a guy who earned a max contract, which Kyrie has.

Third, and the most obvious... anyone who actually sat down and watched the Cavs this past season (there weren't a ton of us) knows that every night, defending Kyrie was the opposing defense's first job. He was seeing doubles and traps all over the floor. Every basket and every assist was made through the teeth of focused defenses. It even got to the point where Waiters, Jack and Delly began alternating at the point, because playing off the ball made Irving harder to double (and he had success playing off the ball).

It would be easy to say, "Well, he's the point guard. Just pass it when the doubles come," but he was far and away the Cavs' best scorer and, in general, they didn't stand a chance if he wasn't putting the ball in the basket. And, defenses knew it.

Thomas has never been the focus of any defenses. They worry about Cousins first, Gay second... he might be third on the pecking order. Maybe.

Last, Thomas will be 25 next season. Irving will be 22.

It's a weak comparison.

[RedBlackAttack]

He certainly doesn't deserve the $14.5 million he made this year. But he's worth $10 million to me when he's healthy. Like I said, Woj reporeted he'll probably get a contract worth $10-$12, I wouldn't be surprised if it's around $13 to be honest.
I have to wonder what version of Deng you were watching. Chicago ran him into the ground and it showed. You can blame it on injuries, but he looked like a guy whose career was running on fumes.

Who knows, maybe he'll turn things back around this season. But, would you feel comfortable giving him four years, $48 million based on what you saw? I don't think many Cavs fans would. And, I don't think many Bulls fans would either.

That says a lot.

[DukeDelonte13]

Deng's a good player when he's dialed in and healthy.

3 year guaranteed deals are out of the question if you ask me. He may be worth 10 mill for 3 years with a team option on the third to the right team. Maybe.

[chips93]

It's interesting because statistically Isaiah Thomas was just as good as Irving and by advanced stats even better but he's probably gonna get like 7-8 mil while Irving gets 18...

isiaih also three years older

and even aside from his age, just looking at their games, kyrie has a lot more potential.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

isiaih also three years older

and even aside from his age, just looking at their games, kyrie has a lot more potential.
I'll address RBA's post later when I have more time but:

Isaiah was slightly better this year (at least imo) but yeah I DO think Irving deserves to be paid more than him based on potential....but not 10 million more on a longer term deal. He's not worth more than 2x Isaiah.

[SexSymbol]

Can I just say that these constant comparisons between Kyrie and Isaiah Thomas are both ludicrous and head-scratching. First of all, the same people making the comparisons, which are completely based on box scores are probably also the ones who were likely diminishing Kyrie in his first two years as being all numbers, no substance. People use statistics when it suits them.

Second, Thomas had a really good year. He probably stacked up well statistically against most point guards in the league. The guy averaged 20+ points and 6+ assists on 45+% shooting.

He had a nice season. Props to him. Let's see if he can do it consistently before everyone starts comparing him to a guy who earned a max contract, which Kyrie has.

Third, and the most obvious... anyone who actually sat down and watched the Cavs this past season (there weren't a ton of us) knows that every night, defending Kyrie was the opposing defense's first job. He was seeing doubles and traps all over the floor. Every basket and every assist was made through the teeth of focused defenses. It even got to the point where Waiters, Jack and Delly began alternating at the point, because playing off the ball made Irving harder to double (and he had success playing off the ball).

It would be easy to say, "Well, he's the point guard. Just pass it when the doubles come," but he was far and away the Cavs' best scorer and, in general, they didn't stand a chance if he wasn't putting the ball in the basket. And, defenses knew it.

Thomas has never been the focus of any defenses. They worry about Cousins first, Gay second... he might be third on the pecking order. Maybe.

Last, Thomas will be 25 next season. Irving will be 22.

It's a weak comparison.

Kyrie did not earn his max contract. If he did, then we have incredibly low standards for max players, Deng is a better player and he's not getting a max, Parsons is a better player and he's not getting a max, same as Lowry.
Of course it's a weak comparison, Isiah Thomas is better, has a better character, better passer, better defender, much more heart in him.
Shit, I'd take Avery Bradley, Lance Stephenson over him in a heart beat.
Kyrie is incredibly overrated, he's a no defense, injury prone gunner who has little to no passing ability as a point guard

[BlackVVaves]

:wtf:
Kyrie did not earn his max contract. If he did, then we have incredibly low standards for max players, Deng is a better player and he's not getting a max, Parsons is a better player and he's not getting a max, same as Lowry.
Of course it's a weak comparison, Isiah Thomas is better, has a better character, better passer, better defender, much more heart in him.
Shit, I'd take Avery Bradley, Lance Stephenson over him in a heart beat.
Kyrie is incredibly overrated, he's a no defense, injury prone gunner who has little to no passing ability as a point guard

I take it Kyrie isn't your favorite player?

[RedBlackAttack]

Kyrie did not earn his max contract. If he did, then we have incredibly low standards for max players, Deng is a better player and he's not getting a max, Parsons is a better player and he's not getting a max, same as Lowry.
Of course it's a weak comparison, Isiah Thomas is better, has a better character, better passer, better defender, much more heart in him.
Shit, I'd take Avery Bradley, Lance Stephenson over him in a heart beat.
Kyrie is incredibly overrated, he's a no defense, injury prone gunner who has little to no passing ability as a point guard
LOL @ all of the bolded.

[ctown4eva]

That guy is a ****ing troll.

[NuggetsFan]

No brainer. He was getting the max no matter what. 1st overall pick, put up numbers, Only turning 23 before the playoffs start next year. Just how the NBA works, Cleveland would be dumb to hurt the relationship by playing stupid and trying to lowball him.

That being said since were comparing him to PG's around the league deals like this make me happy with Lawson at 11ish mill next season. Don't think Irving was that much better this year, if at all. Obviously younger tho.

I'd take him without thinking over I.Thomas. IT is a blackhole. Not even a good one like Arenas, or Stevie Franchise/Marbury. He's destined to put up numbers on shitty teams or come off the bench for a good one IMO. Talented but you just don't go anywhere with overdribbling, shoot first 5'9 PG's. Maybe that's unfair but Thomas has never passed the eyetest for me.

[houston]

stars sell tickets

[hawksdogsbraves]

Of course he's getting the max. It was never a question.

He gets way too much hate in here, and it's for two reasons.

1) The Cavs have a disproportionate amount of quality high profile posters on ISH, that attracts the trolls.

2) He's never won anything. Literally nothing. He's never accomplished a damned thing in his career besides some gaudy ppg numbers, and that gets on people's nerves when a guy like that is labeled a 'superstar' when he's never done anything real.

[Legends66NBA7]

LOL @ all of the bolded.

Lowry was a better player than Irving last year.

[RedBlackAttack]

Lowry was a better player than Irving last year.
Debatable, but I would probably agree. His team was very good and that goes a long way. Statistically, an argument could be made either way.

Irving - 20.8 / 6.1 / 3.6 on 43 / 36 / 86
Lowry - 17.9 / 7.4 / 4.7 on 42 / 38 / 81

But, again... perspective. This discussion is about whether or not Irving deserves the max. So look a little deeper than just "who had a better season."

Lowry has never even approached a season like 2013-14 and he'll be 29 next year. Irving will be 22.

When Lowry was Irving's age, he was in his second year and a backup. And, even with that, Lowry is considered the top point guard on the market and may be turning down $12 million a year to stay in Toronto.

[RedBlackAttack]

He's never won anything. Literally nothing. He's never accomplished a damned thing in his career besides some gaudy ppg numbers, and that gets on people's nerves when a guy like that is labeled a 'superstar' when he's never done anything real.
Fair, but also important to note he's not exactly out of the ordinary in not accomplishing much in three seasons and at 21. The same could have been said for John Wall, Steph Curry and plenty of others at this stage in their respective careers.

When you dig beyond the surface, you find how incredibly rare it is for a point guard to be as good as Irving is right now at his age. For perspective, he's eight months younger than Shabazz Napier. He's younger than Damon Lillard and Michael Carter-Williams. Hell, he may have been the youngest starting PG in the entire NBA last year.

[DoodleDa]

Fair, but also important to note he's not exactly out of the ordinary in not accomplishing much in three seasons and at 21. The same could have been said for John Wall, Steph Curry and plenty of others at this stage in their respective careers.

When you dig beyond the surface, you find how incredibly rare it is for a point guard to be as good as Irving is right now at his age. For perspective, he's eight months younger than Shabazz Napier.

I consider making the playoffs an accomplishment for young players, which those two have done and Kyrie hasn't. I do think that's moreso because of his team, but at the same time he does play in the East.

However, I do agree with you about the age. That piece about Shabazz is really interesting. Although I feel that the hype that he currently has is unwarranted (absolutely shouldn't have been an all-star starter), this 5-year deal is very smart because in a few years I feel that he could be very very good.

[RedBlackAttack]

I consider making the playoffs an accomplishment for young players, which those two have done and Kyrie hasn't. I do think that's moreso because of his team, but at the same time he does play in the East.

However, I do agree with you about the age. That piece about Shabazz is really interesting. Although I feel that the hype that he currently has is unwarranted (absolutely shouldn't have been an all-star starter), this 5-year deal is very smart because in a few years I feel that he could be very very good.
I said "at that stage in their respective careers."

When Steph Curry was 21, he was a rookie and the Warriors were 26-56. In his third season (when he was 23), they were still just 23-43. Neither team was close to the playoffs, obviously.

When John Wall was 21, he was in his second season and the Wizards were 20-46. In his third season (at 22), the Wizards were 29-53.

So, my point stands. Like I said, it may be hard to believe, but I think Irving was the youngest starting PG in the entire league last year. Definitely the youngest in the East that I can think of... Trey Burke was the only younger one in the league, I believe, and they're close in age (within 7-8 months).

That's pretty obviously the difference between Kyrie and all of these other guys he is being compared to. A lot of them weren't even in the league at 21. Kyrie was busy finishing his third season, over which time he's averaged 21 points and 6 assists on 45% shooting. That is rare. Very rare.

[SexSymbol]

LOL @ all of the bolded.
You're overrating Kyrie incredibly. He hasn't done anything and is very injury prone.
Avery Bradley is a monster on the defensive end, but seeing as you're a stat whore, i'm not gonna take this discussion to you.
Parsons is better all-around and more valuable to a team, better durability too.
Deng is a no-brainer, only a homer would say Kyrie is a better player.

[DukeDelonte13]

You're overrating Kyrie incredibly. He hasn't done anything and is very injury prone.
Avery Bradley is a monster on the defensive end, but seeing as you're a stat whore, i'm not gonna take this discussion to you.
Parsons is better all-around and more valuable to a team, better durability too.
Deng is a no-brainer, only a homer would say Kyrie is a better player.

I don't really think you watched much of Deng last year.

[coin24]

As expected.. Good for the cavs, kyries a beast, hopefully the new coach uses him properly. Unlike fu*ktard brown:facepalm Wonder if they'll move dion now?:confusedshrug:

[SexSymbol]

I don't really think you watched much of Deng last year.
I did, one year doesn't take away from him being a great player. He was injured after all.
if deng continues his sucky ass performances this year then yeah, maybe Kyrie is a better player, but for now there's no chance.
Kyrie hasn't proven he can be a good leader, or play winning basketball.

[DukeDelonte13]

I did, one year doesn't take away from him being a great player. He was injured after all.
if deng continues his sucky ass performances this year then yeah, maybe Kyrie is a better player, but for now there's no chance.
Kyrie hasn't proven he can be a good leader, or play winning basketball.


I agree with you on those two points, but what RBA and others are saying is that he's still very damn young.

He did take steps this past year. People say he regressed his last season and I say that that's BS. He played a more complete game this past season. He exerted himself much more defensively and did do a better job of moving the ball and not sticking so much. He's not so far off from being exactly where the cavs need him to be.

I'm hoping Blatt and the clinic that San Antonio put on Miami this year wakes his ass up and shows him that ball movement + easy buckets is better than ISO's all day every day.

[SexSymbol]

I agree with you on those two points, but what RBA and others are saying is that he's still very damn young.

He did take steps this past year. People say he regressed his last season and I say that that's BS. He played a more complete game this past season. He exerted himself much more defensively and did do a better job of moving the ball and not sticking so much. He's not so far off from being exactly where the cavs need him to be.

I'm hoping Blatt and the clinic that San Antonio put on Miami this year wakes his ass up and shows him that ball movement + easy buckets is better than ISO's all day every day.
I'm not arguing that he's not improving, he obviously is and he will improve.
But he's not a max player in any way, if you have to let him walk, then let him, don't pay such ridiculous amount of money for a player who's not worth more than 12 mil/y and even then if u don't have anything worth mentioning on your team.

[Lebron23]

I hope he finally lead the Cavs into the playoffs. Dude has a better supporting casts than Cleveland LeBron.

[DukeDelonte13]

I'm not arguing that he's not improving, he obviously is and he will improve.
But he's not a max player in any way, if you have to let him walk, then let him, don't pay such ridiculous amount of money for a player who's not worth more than 12 mil/y and even then if u don't have anything worth mentioning on your team.


he's worth it and he's not.

He's like a pair of Gucci sunglasses. Are they worth the stupid expensive price tag? Hell no. Will somebody certainly pay the price for them? Of course.

It's Cleveland. They have to retain their young talent because they aren't getting any via free agency. Kyrie was going to get a max deal regardless if it was Cleveland or some other team. He's not truly a franchise player at this point, but his value on the NBA market is a max deal.

I think letting him walk depends on the franchise's ownership situation, and Cavs have Gilbert who has historically had 0 problems spending and has said he has no problem going into the lux tax. I'm not in love with Kyrie Irving as a Cavs fan, but letting him go would be a step back.

[DukeDelonte13]

I hope he finally lead the Cavs into the playoffs. Dude has a better supporting casts than Cleveland LeBron.


That's debatable. Cavs are still a super young team and Lebron's teams were very veteran heavy.

Young teams don't typically do well in the NBA.

[DoodleDa]

I said "at that stage in their respective careers.

True. My bad, must've skipped that.


I'm not arguing that he's not improving, he obviously is and he will improve.
But he's not a max player in any way, if you have to let him walk, then let him, don't pay such ridiculous amount of money for a player who's not worth more than 12 mil/y and even then if u don't have anything worth mentioning on your team.

You don't think that Kyrie's continued improvement and eventual peak (when taking into account how young he is) doesn't warrant a max contract? You also have to remember that we're talking about the Cavs.

[jbryan1984]

Good to hear for us. Finally, we have not just one but two players who have the potential to be a top 5 player or maybe even better at their position in this league. Just imagine if LeBron came now. I doubt he will but just imagine. All this young talent around him, money still left over to sign free agents who KNOW LeBron will be there. It would be unbelievable.

[El Gato Negro]

correct me if im wrong but kyrie is only making a little over 7 mill this year and im guessing when his raise kicks in the year after he will only be getting like 11 million. people saying he isnt worth 12 do realize he wont see that for 3 more years right?

[Jasper]

how to shoot a team in the foot = Timberwolves Garnet era.

[Legends66NBA7]

But, again... perspective. This discussion is about whether or not Irving deserves the max. So look a little deeper than just "who had a better season."

My statement wasn't about the topic at hand. Thread topic rarely stays on topic to begin with.

On topic, yes you pay him the max. Whether he's deserving of it is irrelevant for a young player. That really shouldn't have been up for discussion.

[CTbasketball92]

Kyrie did not earn his max contract. If he did, then we have incredibly low standards for max players, Deng is a better player and he's not getting a max, Parsons is a better player and he's not getting a max, same as Lowry.
Of course it's a weak comparison, Isiah Thomas is better, has a better character, better passer, better defender, much more heart in him.
Shit, I'd take Avery Bradley, Lance Stephenson over him in a heart beat.
Kyrie is incredibly overrated, he's a no defense, injury prone gunner who has little to no passing ability as a point guard

How do you feel about this deal now?
And Avery Bradley, Lance Stephenson? C'mon man.

This deal was obviously a good decision even back then. \
Cavs will win the chip in 2015-2016

[Mirror]

How do you feel about this deal now?
And Avery Bradley, Lance Stephenson? C'mon man.

This deal was obviously a good decision even back then. \
Cavs will win the chip in 2015-2016
Nice bump.