Great post about Wilt being a garbage time play and statpadder

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

by fatal9


Here for example is the '62 series...

Game 1:

http://i35.tinypic.com/2910zo9.jpg

Warriors lost by 28, Wilt winds up top scorer after scoring most of his points when "the issue was no longer in doubt".

Game 3:
http://i34.tinypic.com/29gipfr.jpg

Celtics led by 28 after three quarters (109-81). Russell outplays Wilt when the game was a contest but then Wilt catches up/exceeds Russell's stats when it was "too late to matter". Again, Wilt winds up top scorer due to the points he scored after the game was a blowout.

Game 5:

"Russell scored 29 points to Chamberlain's 30. Bill blanketed Wilt so well that the NBA scoring king had only four of 13 field goal tries, 11 points and was out-rebounded 11-9 by his tormentor in the crucial first half. Russell also contributed numerous blocked shots and assists to the decision."- http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=9z ... 76,2892610

Celtics led by 23 at the half and yet again most of Wilt's points end up coming after the Celtics had already blown out the Warriors while playing poorly in the first half, so he got the top scoring honors over Russell again.

Yes, the game is never over by half time but if a majority of your points are coming after you're already down 25+ points, when the outcome is basically decided and the opposing team eases up, that's not a good trend. Playing 48 minutes in games like this and using those garbage minutes to actually pad your stats (while not playing well when the game was actually on the line), then sorry I'm going to respect your stats a lot less.

It's not to say Wilt couldn't play well with the game on the line, he had a couple of truly great games in that series where he significantly outplayed Russell, but it shows how much the box score/averages can be manipulated if you're stat conscious enough and get heavy minutes in games like this. It's also scary to think how much more of a dropoff we might have seen in the playoffs from Wilt if he wasn't doing this. There's three cases in seven games where Russell outplayed him when it mattered, but Wilt got his stats in garbage time to come out on top statistically. A player doing this in a playoff series today would lose a lot of credibility. LeBron/Kobe for example take couple of shots during blowouts and instantly get accused of statpadding, this is that and then some. Also, aren't there stories of Russell sometimes purposely letting Wilt score at the end of blowouts so Wilt comes out thinking he actually played well? I actually considered that to be nonsense until I looked deeper into these games.

[LoneyROY7]

:applause:

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

:applause:
My nikka:applause: :applause: rep me so im in green i have -3 right now:applause: :applause:

[Asukal]

Exposed! :oldlol: :lol :roll:

Inb4, gaylauber comes with another essay starting with "how bout" lines that are irrelevant to the topic at hand. :rockon:

[Warfan]

I don't really care either way, but you're gonna prove he is a statpadder from 3 games in 1 series??

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Wow 2 game sample size!!l Wilt exposed!!

[moe94]

Wow 2 game sample size!!l Wilt exposed!!
:roll:

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

I don't really care either way, but you're gonna prove he is a statpadder from 3 games in 1 series??
That was the norm for Wilt. You can find plenty of the same if u use google. fatal9 also talked about it whats he gonna do post 50 games of info:confusedshrug: :confusedshrug: it was a trend for Wilt he was basically a fakkit :confusedshrug: :confusedshrug:

[Deuce Bigalow]

Wilt, what fitting name to describe his playoff career.

2/6

[knicksman]

so its official. bran is the son of wilt. :lol Only idiots couldnt see this

[knicksman]

Wilt, what fitting name to describe his playoff career.

2/6

1/6 as the man:lol

[LAZERUSS]

Hmmm...

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/196202090BOS.html

and again the very next night...

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/196202100PHW.html

and how about this one...

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/196001290PHW.html


I guess Russell "let" Wilt score a little bit too much a few times, wouldn't you say?

The REALITY was, Russell was hanging on for dear life in some of his biggst games against Wilt.

I notice that Fatal9 didn't post the SEVENTH game of the '62 Finals. With 16 seconds remaining, Chamberlain dunked and was fouled. He hit the FT to tie the game. But as usual, it was not Russell who would beat Wilt, but rather Sam Jones, who hit the game-winner over the outstretched fingertips of...you guessed it...Wilt. BTW game recaps of that seventh game credited Wilt with OUTSTANDING defense.


Or how about game seven of the '65 EDF's, when Boston opened up a 110-101 lead with a couple of minutes left. Chamberlain scored six of Philly's last eight points, including two straight FTs with 36 secs remaining, and then a dunk over Russell with five seconds left, to pull the 40-40 Sixers to within 110-109 against the heavily-favored 62-18 Celtics in Boston. And what did the "clutch" Russell do next? His inbounds pass hit a guidewire giving the ball back to the Sixers under their own basket. Alas, "Havlicek stole the ball!"

BTW, in that seventh game, "stats-padding" Wilt scored 30 points, on 12-15 FG/FGA, with 32 rebounds. Oh, and for the series, "the choker" Chamberlain averaged 30.1 ppg, 31.4 rpg, and shot .555 from the field, all while taking a team that gone 34-46 the year before and didn't make the playoffs, to within an eyelash of beating the Celtic Dynasty at the peak of their glory.

[Deuce Bigalow]

So he let Sam Jones hit a gamewinner right in his face :oldlol:

So this is the game 7 where he scored 22 points coming off a 50.4 ppg regular season right? Why did Sam Jones outscore Wilt in every game 7 Lazeruss?

[Marchesk]

Wilt's team lost by 2 in game 7 to the 4-time champion Celtics. He couldn't have played too bad for the series.

[NZStreetBaller]

you judge an entire career on such a small piece of it...... thats like saying lebron james sucks cause he blew the whole 2011 finals??

[La Frescobaldi]

So he let Sam Jones hit a gamewinner right in his face :oldlol:

So this is the game 7 where he scored 22 points coming off a 50.4 ppg regular season right? Why did Sam Jones outscore Wilt in every game 7 Lazeruss?
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WoGmMx8Ejrw

So Pippen AND Jordan let Bird hit a gamewinner right in his face :oldlol:

what makes you think Tom Meschery or Al Attles could stop Sammy Jones when Walt Frazier or Oscar Robertson never could?

[Hands of Iron]

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WoGmMx8Ejrw

So Pippen AND Jordan let Bird hit a gamewinner right in his face :oldlol:

what makes you think Tom Meschery or Al Attles could stop Sammy Jones when Walt Frazier or Oscar Robertson never could?

And Bird would do it time and again if he had to. Usually wasn't necessary. And he usually, had ridiculous games against the Bulls especially prior to the plethora of injuries and surgery that knocked him out of his prime.

It's sort of amusing because he gives off that vibe of knowing what time it is in a lot of those games. Alpha sensibility and whatnot.

[LAZERUSS]

So he let Sam Jones hit a gamewinner right in his face :oldlol:

So this is the game 7 where he scored 22 points coming off a 50.4 ppg regular season right? Why did Sam Jones outscore Wilt in every game 7 Lazeruss?


You didn't even catch that did you?

WHY was WILT having to defend a perimeter player????

The REALITY was this. Russell had a TON of help in defending Chamberlain. BUT, at the other end, Wilt not only had to guard Russell, he had to defend the ENTIRE Celtic team.

Same thing in '64. Game four...Heinsohn takes the potential game winner, Wilt leaps out, nearly blocks it, the shot misses badly, but for one of the few times in his career agains Wilt, Russell grabs the rebound and puts in the game-winner.

BTW, in game two of the '62 Finals...Chamberlain outscored Russell, 42-9, and outrebounded him by a 37-20 margin...in a 7 point win. Wilt HAD to put monster games for his team to even have a chance.


As for Sam Jones. According to RUSSELL, himself, Jones was tasked with taking the final shot SIX times in the playoffs, in which the SERIES was either won, or lost...and he nailed them all six times. So, how would Russell's legacy have beemn without Sam Jones?


BTW, Chamberlain outscored Sam Jones in their '60, 62, '64, '65, '66. and '67 playoff series.

[Psileas]

This amount of games Wilt "statpadded" in this series is the same with the amount of games Jordan stank against the Pistons in the 1989 series (his 33/8/8 season). It proves Wilt was a statpadder to the same degree Jordan's series proves he was a mediocre playoff performer.

Btw, I'd like to have seen that Game 7 of this series. Not only did the "statpadder" bring the Warriors back in the game in the final minutes, but one crucial block by him that was whistled as a goaltend, I think on Heinsohn, was deemed to be a controversial whistle, possibly a valid block - especially when taking into account that, with a marginal play emerging in a Game 7, there's no way the refs would not favor the reigning champions who were playing in their own home, and even more so if it were to favor the team of "Goliath".

[LAZERUSS]

Wilt's team lost by 2 in game 7 to the 4-time champion Celtics. He couldn't have played too bad for the series.

Fatal9 failed to mention that Chamberlain single-handedly carried this team, the core of which was the same last place roster he inherited two years earlier as a rookie, only older and worse, thru the first round of the playoffs, which included the elmination game five performance of 56 points and 35 rebounds...and then to a game seven, two point loss, against the 60-20 and HOF-laden Celtics...all while his teammates collecrtively shot .354 from the field in the playoffs (and his highest teammate shot .397.) Oh, and he outrebounded Russell, badly outscored Russell, and dramatically outshot Russell from the field, as well.

Yep, the "stats-padding" "choker"...

[Psileas]

Fatal9 failed to mention that Chamberlain single-handedly carried this team, the core of which was the same last place roster he inherited two years earlier as a rookie, only older and worse, thru the first round of the playoffs, which included the elmination game five performance of 56 points and 35 rebounds...and then to a game seven, two point loss, against the 60-20 and HOF-laden Celtics...all while his teammates collecrtively shot .354 from the field in the playoffs (and his highest teammate shot .397.) Oh, and he outrebounded Russell, badly outscored Russell, and dramatically outshot Russell from the field, as well.

Yep, the "stats-padding" "choker"...

I love how in a few "Player of the Year" projects that I've seen, Russell beat out Wilt in 1962, because of a single play that didn't directly involve either player. One small change of a single play and the very same Russell might not even draw a single vote. Then, curiously enough, when the GOAT seasons by a player are discussed, this same individual season that beat out a 50/26/EDF season is nowhere to be found...

[red1]

where is the great post? Im still looking for it

[GimmeThat]

I did not know history changes

[Pointguard]

Hmmm...

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/196202090BOS.html

and again the very next night...

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/196202100PHW.html

and how about this one...

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/196001290PHW.html


I guess Russell "let" Wilt score a little bit too much a few times, wouldn't you say?

The REALITY was, Russell was hanging on for dear life in some of his biggst games against Wilt.

I notice that Fatal9 didn't post the SEVENTH game of the '62 Finals. With 16 seconds remaining, Chamberlain dunked and was fouled. He hit the FT to tie the game. But as usual, it was not Russell who would beat Wilt, but rather Sam Jones, who hit the game-winner over the outstretched fingertips of...you guessed it...Wilt. BTW game recaps of that seventh game credited Wilt with OUTSTANDING defense.


Or how about game seven of the '65 EDF's, when Boston opened up a 110-101 lead with a couple of minutes left. Chamberlain scored six of Philly's last eight points, including two straight FTs with 36 secs remaining, and then a dunk over Russell with five seconds left, to pull the 40-40 Sixers to within 110-109 against the heavily-favored 62-18 Celtics in Boston. And what did the "clutch" Russell do next? His inbounds pass hit a guidewire giving the ball back to the Sixers under their own basket. Alas, "Havlicek stole the ball!"

BTW, in that seventh game, "stats-padding" Wilt scored 30 points, on 12-15 FG/FGA, with 32 rebounds. Oh, and for the series, "the choker" Chamberlain averaged 30.1 ppg, 31.4 rpg, and shot .555 from the field, all while taking a team that gone 34-46 the year before and didn't make the playoffs, to within an eyelash of beating the Celtic Dynasty at the peak of their glory.
I think we are only talking about first half's. You know, when all playoff games are decided. Wilt is supposed to know that he should have not played the second half.

[Mr. Jabbar]

brans grand daddy :bowdown:

[Iceman#44]

I love how in a few "Player of the Year" projects that I've seen, Russell beat out Wilt in 1962, because of a single play that didn't directly involve either player. One small change of a single play and the very same Russell might not even draw a single vote. Then, curiously enough, when the GOAT seasons by a player are discussed, this same individual season that beat out a 50/26/EDF season is nowhere to be found...

Psileas, they just dont know/care cause they are haters, young idiots, and they want to diminish Wilt Chamberlain and his stats simply because Wilt's numbers are just Unreal and they dont want to face that.

[Heavincent]

The guy has been in the ground for 15 years and people still have fierce internet arguments about him. I gotta say, that's pretty impressive.

[Marchesk]

The guy has been in the ground for 15 years and people still have fierce internet arguments about him. I gotta say, that's pretty impressive.

It is. We can only though, that Kobe and Bran stans won't still be going at it 15 years from now on the ISH holo-servers. God save us that fate.

[Deuce Bigalow]

So he let his own man Bill Russell grab an offensive rebound and score a gamewinner in another series :oldlol:

[russwest0]

Lmao, those quotes sound exactly like LeBron in the finals this past year.

Did nothing in the first half and then showed up and statpadded when the game was already over.

[Rubio2Gasol]

If he wins those games, you call it a heroic performance, if he loses, you call him a statpadder.

Statpadder is like James Jones scoring 11 when Spo takes the starters out, not Wilt trying to bring his team back.

[kureyşi-gospurs]

you judge an entire career on such a small piece of it...... thats like saying lebron james sucks cause he blew the whole 2011 finals??

Thisss

[L.Kizzle]

This actually shows how great Russell is not how muxh of a statpadder Wilt was. Let's see some stories on Willis Reed or Wes Unseld or Walt Bellamy or Bob Pettit doing this to Wilt ...

[LAZERUSS]

This actually shows how great Russell is not how muxh of a statpadder Wilt was. Let's see some stories on Willis Reed or Wes Unseld or Walt Bellamy or Bob Pettit doing this to Wilt ...

Except...Russell NEVER contained Wilt. True, in one or two games of a series, he would outplay Wilt for a quarter, maybe a half. But NEVER over the course of a FULL game, and it would be truly laughable to claim he outplayed Wilt in ANY series. Chamberlain massively outscored, outrebounded, and outshot him in every series (alright, he barely outscored Russell in the '69 Finals...but you can thank VBK for that.)

And not only that, but Russell had a TON of help in defending Wilt. He seldom guarded him one-on-one. There is even a Costas interview with the both in which he sat silently as Wilt made that same claim. Of course, he couldn't argue it, either, since he had several TEAMMATES make the same claim.

[LAZERUSS]

I love how in a few "Player of the Year" projects that I've seen, Russell beat out Wilt in 1962, because of a single play that didn't directly involve either player. One small change of a single play and the very same Russell might not even draw a single vote. Then, curiously enough, when the GOAT seasons by a player are discussed, this same individual season that beat out a 50/26/EDF season is nowhere to be found...


Well, even the players suspiciously voted Russell MVP that year. But I have long maintained that it was simply because Wilt was making a mockery of them, and the league.

What is interesting, is that Russell, and Boston played essentially the exact same way in '62, as they did in '60. And Wilt's Warriors, despite and aging roster that was worse in '62, played the same way. And Chamberlain was LIGHT YEARS better in '62 (most "experts" tab this season as the single greatest season in major professional team sports HISTORY BTW.) BUT, how did Chamberlain easily win the MVP in '60, and not in '62??????

Of course, we saw more anti-Wilt voting in '64, and '69, as well. Even '72 was questionable, given the fact that Wilt was far more dominant in '62 than KAJ was in '72, and Wilt's '72 Lakers were considerably better than Russell's '62 Celtics in terms of W-L records.

[LAZERUSS]

How come the OP hasn't responded to any of MINE?

[mr4speed]

How come the OP hasn't responded to any of MINE?
Because you shut him the hell up with facts! Very nice. The only explanation I could give for Wilt not getting his due is jealousy, plain and simple.