why is MJ's 63 pts against boston always talked about when the bulls lost?

[sportsfan76]

I mean doesn't the fact that the Bulls lost the game overshadow mj's 63 pts?
Now if he had won that game against the Celtics then the 63 would look more impressive but since that was not the case then why is that game always referred to?

is it because it's Michael Jordan? because not only did the bulls lose the game but also the series. so why the hell is this 63 in defeat so f8cking special?

someone? anyone?

[ottooooooo]

63 points doe

[kamil]

63 points doe

This.

[Dro]

Is this question really being asked in real life?

[Xiao Yao You]

He gave arguably the greatest team ever all they wanted single handedly. It was something I'll never forget.

[Crown&Coke]

"God disguised as Michael Jordan"

It was a 30 win Chicago team that took arugable the best team ever assembled into double overtime.

Dude wasn't even supposed to play that entire year with a broken foot. And all he did was drop 63 in the playoffs.

Double and triple teams all game

[OldSchoolBBall]

Because it's an all-time record? Also don't forget the 49 points the game prior to that. Imagine if, say, Durant put up 49 followed by 63 against Miami or SA in the playoffs even if the Thunder lost? It would be bonkers.

[sportsfan76]

"God disguised as Michael Jordan"

It was a 30 win Chicago team that took arugable the best team ever assembled into double overtime.

Dude wasn't even supposed to play that entire year with a broken foot. And all he did was drop 63 in the playoffs.

Double and triple teams all game


do you understand none of that shit means anything because he lost the game?

[Marchesk]

do you understand none of that shit means anything because he lost the game?

We understand that Bran didn't put up 63 against the Spurs.

[Champ]

I mean doesn't the fact that the Bulls lost the game overshadow mj's 63 pts?
Now if he had won that game against the Celtics then the 63 would look more impressive but since that was not the case then why is that game always referred to?

is it because it's Michael Jordan? because not only did the bulls lose the game but also the series. so why the hell is this 63 in defeat so f8cking special?

someone? anyone?

See for yourself - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91Tmg96qq7k

[dubeta]

scoring against unathletic dudes with no zone defense isnt that impressive tbh

[Marchesk]

scoring against unathletic dudes with no zone defense isnt that impressive tbh

That's why they won 3 titles in a stacked era.

[ProfessorMurder]

scoring against unathletic dudes with no zone defense isnt that impressive tbh

Oh no, not zone defense. Anyone with a jumpshot beats zone.

[Knoe Itawl]

I mean doesn't the fact that the Bulls lost the game overshadow mj's 63 pts?
Now if he had won that game against the Celtics then the 63 would look more impressive but since that was not the case then why is that game always referred to?

is it because it's Michael Jordan? because not only did the bulls lose the game but also the series. so why the hell is this 63 in defeat so f8cking special?

someone? anyone?

Nope.

[riseagainst]

lebrontards are in complete meltdown mode.

:oldlol:

[TheMan]

I mean doesn't the fact that the Bulls lost the game overshadow mj's 63 pts?
Now if he had won that game against the Celtics then the 63 would look more impressive but since that was not the case then why is that game always referred to?

is it because it's Michael Jordan? because not only did the bulls lose the game but also the series. so why the hell is this 63 in defeat so f8cking special?

someone? anyone?
:biggums:

[Lord Bean]

This is the type of performance the media has been pushing on us with Lebron, every time he has a marginally decent game. Lebron when losing to a great team will shoot until he reaches a "superstar minimum" of around 28 points by playing safe all game, and will stop himself when he gets there on good efficiency. The difference is that Jordan will keep shooting, keep fighting, keep competing no matter what. That is why Jordan with a much worse support took the greatest team ever to double overtime by himself with a legendary performance, and Lebron got destroyed by the Spurs. Lebron had his stats, so he was content. A victory never factored into his game plan. Any objective fan can see that Lebron does not have a tenth of the skill, drive, or greatness that Michael Jordan had as a basketball player or competitor. He will never be as good as Michael, people need to realize these truths.

[riseagainst]

This is the type of performance the media has been pushing on us with Lebron, every time he has a marginally decent game. Lebron when losing to a great team will shoot until he reaches a "superstar minimum" of around 28 points by playing safe all game, and will stop himself when he gets there on good efficiency. The difference is that Jordan will keep shooting, keep fighting, keep competing no matter what. That is why Jordan with a much worse support took the greatest team ever to double overtime by himself with a legendary performance, and Lebron got destroyed by the Spurs. Lebron had his stats, so he was content. A victory never factored into his game plan. Any objective fan can see that Lebron does not have a tenth of the skill, drive, or greatness that Michael Jordan had as a basketball player or competitor. He will never be as good as Michael, people need to realize these truths.

very well said.
:applause:

lebrontards are in shock.
:oldlol:

[TheMan]

scoring against unathletic dudes with no zone defense isnt that impressive tbh
dubeta showing us what a complete moron he is post after garbage post :applause:

[TheMan]

This is the type of performance the media has been pushing on us with Lebron, every time he has a marginally decent game. Lebron when losing to a great team will shoot until he reaches a "superstar minimum" of around 28 points by playing safe all game, and will stop himself when he gets there on good efficiency. The difference is that Jordan will keep shooting, keep fighting, keep competing no matter what. That is why Jordan with a much worse support took the greatest team ever to double overtime by himself with a legendary performance, and Lebron got destroyed by the Spurs. Lebron had his stats, so he was content. A victory never factored into his game plan. Any objective fan can see that Lebron does not have a tenth of the skill, drive, or greatness that Michael Jordan had as a basketball player or competitor. He will never be as good as Michael, people need to realize these truths.
:applause:

[Pushxx]

Lol...that game was pretty poorly played overall, but that is real man's basketball.

McHale and Ainge had blood on their jerseys lol. That shit doesn't happen anymore.

The refs were pretty poor in that game also.

[guy]

Well, its the playoff scoring record, meaning its the greatest record of the most glamorous aspect of the game (scoring) on the highest stage of the game (unless you count Finals as another part of the season). Add on top of that it was the arguable GOAT's first memorable performance after coming back from a shortened season and against arguably the greatest team ever and arguably the greatest franchise ever. There was basically nothing about the game that wasn't historically epic.

Are we really going to act like if a player didn't score 63 in a playoff loss today it wouldn't be hyped crazily?

[IllegalD]

Because Jordan Stans are insecure and have to do everything in the power to protect their boys legacy.

Have LeBron or Kobe score 80+ in a losing effort in the playoffs and it wouldn't be getting a fraction of the hype. Fact.

[ProfessorMurder]

Have LeBron or Kobe score 80+ in a losing effort in the playoffs and it wouldn't be getting a fraction of the hype. Fact.

:roll:

Bran could barely get to 60 in the regular season, against the Bobcats, in a blowout.

[Poetry]

scoring against unathletic dudes with no zone defense isnt that impressive tbh

Almost no one plays zone defense today.

And back then, you could play zone until you were caught, given a warning, then keep playing it until you got caught again. But that didn't stop teams from using it or variations of zone.

It was probably played as often as it is now, which is to say, not very often.

Since Illegal D was the hardest thing to spot during a game for refs, it was often just missed.

But like I said, the numbers show that almost no one plays it today, man-to-man is the primary defensive scheme for all teams, and real life isn't NBA 2K.

[Big#50]

Because it is Michael Jordan. His groupies are a weird bunch. One of the biggest case of empty stats if you ask me.

[Dro]

Because it is Michael Jordan. His groupies are a weird bunch. One of the biggest case of empty stats if you ask me.
Empty stats = dumbest phrase in NBA history.......Ok maybe not history but its close....so a guy basically single handedly beats one of the GOAT teams and his stats are empty because the rest of the team was not good enough to help him.......Nice........I love ish logic......

[kamil]

Have LeBron or Kobe score 80+ in a losing effort in the playoffs and it wouldn't be getting a fraction of the hype. Fact.

No, the FACT is that LeBron* has never come close to scoring 80 or more... dude needed a garbage team like the Bobcats just to drop 60... in the regular season.

Why is it that much like LeBron* himself, you d!ckriders always speak about what MIGHT or COULD happen. Howcome you never compare whats actually been accomplished? It's like you took LeBrons* shorcut mentality and expect all the glory without having to work for it.

[LA Lakers]

Because it is an incredible achievement in basketball that will never happen again, especially since the old Boston Garden is gone forever...

[Kvnzhangyay]

lebrontards are in complete meltdown mode.

:oldlol:

No one even mentioned Bran until you guys did :lol

You really should stop being so obsesssed

[IllegalD]

No, the FACT is that LeBron* has never come close to scoring 80 or more... dude needed a garbage team like the Bobcats just to drop 60... in the regular season.

Why is it that much like LeBron* himself, you d!ckriders always speak about what MIGHT or COULD happen. Howcome you never compare whats actually been accomplished? It's like you took LeBrons* shorcut mentality and expect all the glory without having to work for it.

I'm actually a Kobe Stan... :confusedshrug:

Funny how both responses to my comment focused in on LeBron not being able to score.

My point still stands. Anyone other than Jordan does that and it gets swept under the rug.

[kamil]

My point still stands. Anyone other than Jordan does that and it gets swept under the rug.

Has anyone done it? No.

[Big#50]

Empty stats = dumbest phrase in NBA history.......Ok maybe not history but its close....so a guy basically single handedly beats one of the GOAT teams and his stats are empty because the rest of the team was not good enough to help him.......Nice........I love ish logic......
Sometimes good teams know they cant stop a certain player and focus on stoping the rest of the team. Those are empty stats.

[jstern]

do you understand none of that shit means anything because he lost the game?

You have a very childish, rigid mind.

Somebody does an incredible feat. Lets say score 130 points, including hitting 35 three pointers in a row, but their team loss. The child's daddy told him that only the W matters, so now the child with the rigid mind cannot open his mind up to recognize a great performance. He cannot use any type of logic to consider more than one factor. His mind is crippled so he can't consider all the dozens of factors, in the Jordan's case, he being part of a shitty team, going up against one of the greatest teams of all time.

Kind of reminds me of this one kid, someone stole his book bag. The father asks, did you do your homework. The kids says, "No because..." the father cuts him off, doesn't let him talk, and just keeps repeating no excuses, no excuses. Literally doesn't let the kid talk, and the kid has to tell his mom what happened hours later.

In that case the father is the one with the rigid mind, not the kid. And it just reminds me of this OP. It's like a fake bravado.

[JellyBean]

I mean doesn't the fact that the Bulls lost the game overshadow mj's 63 pts?
Now if he had won that game against the Celtics then the 63 would look more impressive but since that was not the case then why is that game always referred to?

is it because it's Michael Jordan? because not only did the bulls lose the game but also the series. so why the hell is this 63 in defeat so f8cking special?

someone? anyone?


:facepalm

[Roundball_Rock]

Empty stats = dumbest phrase in NBA history.......Ok maybe not history but its close....so a guy basically single handedly beats one of the GOAT teams and his stats are empty because the rest of the team was not good enough to help him.......Nice........I love ish logic......

The Bulls were swept by the Celtics and swept again by the Celtics the following year (the Bulls went 40-42 and were the #8 seed again). Both were first round series. (The Bulls were on their way to losing in the first round for the fourth consecutive year in 1988 when Doug Collins inserted Pippen into the starting lineup for the decisive Game 5--his first career start--after the Bulls blew a 2-0 start to the best of 5 series. Pippen provided the spark Collins sought and scored 24, although MJ was the main reason they won with 39 points)

As to "no help", Woolridge averaged 21 ppg (people think Pippen was MJ's first 20 ppg "second option" but he had Woolridge his first two seasons), Oakley had 10/10 and Corzine 12/9 so while his team was not as strong as Boston's legendary squad he did have some productive teammates. Also, MJ struggled in the closeout game in both 1986 and 1987, shooting 30% while scoring 30 on 30 shots in 87' and 19 points on 44% (MJ actually was the third leading scorer for the Bulls in that game) in 86'.

With respect to the 63 points, it is hyped because it is the record, it was done by a legend who happened to be playing another legend who was on one of the greatest teams of all-time and because anything positive with MJ is magnified. How many times do you see ESPN run clips of MJ game winners (not just the ones in the Jazz Finals but the first round one against the Cavs)? Compare that to how "often" they do the same with KAJ's game winners.

[SHAQisGOAT]

He did that against what many would calll the GOAT team... He was being guarded by one of the greatest perimeter players of all-time, and although DJ was past his peak, older and considerably heavier while having lost a step or two in the athletic department, he was still a great defender; and guarded by Danny Ainge, who was a really feisty, agressive player, good athlete and nice defender; and protecting the paint were Parish, McHale, Walton and Bird, which is absolute ridiculous.
Some say it was KC Jones' plan to let MJ get his while trying to nullify everybody else, and if it was it obviously didn't work lmfao, but I've seen that entire game more than a couple of times and didn't really seem like it, they were trying to force him into bad/long shots and into crowded areas, trapping and even some doubles...

Bottom line, his team lost, he had a bogus call to send it into OT, they got swept at the end, and he only scored 19 on 18 shots in the closing game 3... STILL 63 points against arguably the GOAT team is simply ridiculous no matter which way you wanna look at it, plus it was in the playoffs and he was a sophomore coming off of a broken foot :bowdown:
Stop with the nonsense :facepalm

[Trollsmasher]

I don't know. He freezed his team out of the game and proceeded to quit in the next one.

[ILLsmak]

lol @ dude saying if someone dropped 80+ in a playoff loss it wouldn't be hyped.

u guyse...

-Smak

[Milbuck]

Just like your husband lebron you dirty ******* now go hang yourself you fakkit :banghead: yo ass is lucky I dont see u otherwise you'd be crying to ur mom b|tch
20Four are you really gonna put zero effort in hiding the fact that this is your alt?

Also, bitch isn't censored. ****ing idiot.

[riseagainst]

20Four are you really gonna put zero effort in hiding the fact that this is your alt?

Also, bitch isn't censored. ****ing idiot.

:oldlol:

[SouBeachTalents]

So according to OP's logic, if Jordan had scored 2 points but hit the game winner THEN his performance could be talked about

[Dro]

Sometimes good teams know they cant stop a certain player and focus on stoping the rest of the team. Those are empty stats.
Please name these other players besides MJ that the Celtics were focused on stopping......Woolridge, Corzine, Oakley? No one is focused on stopping these guys because they are role players......Woolridge was more than a role player but they know they had a much better chance of stopping him than MJ.

[Da_Realist]

He did that against what many would calll the GOAT team... He was being guarded by one of the greatest perimeter players of all-time, and although DJ was past his peak, older and considerably heavier while having lost a step or two in the athletic department, he was still a great defender; and guarded by Danny Ainge, who was a really feisty, agressive player, good athlete and nice defender; and protecting the paint were Parish, McHale, Walton and Bird, which is absolute ridiculous.
Some say it was KC Jones' plan to let MJ get his while trying to nullify everybody else, and if it was it obviously didn't work lmfao, but I've seen that entire game more than a couple of times and didn't really seem like it, they were trying to force him into bad/long shots and into crowded areas, trapping and even some doubles...

Bottom line, his team lost, he had a bogus call to send it into OT, they got swept at the end, and he only scored 19 on 18 shots in the closing game 3... STILL 63 points against arguably the GOAT team is simply ridiculous no matter which way you wanna look at it, plus it was in the playoffs and he was a sophomore coming off of a broken foot :bowdown:
Stop with the nonsense :facepalm



Ahh... perspective. :applause:

MJ - The ultimate competitor.

[La Frescobaldi]

Almost no one plays zone defense today.

And back then, you could play zone until you were caught, given a warning, then keep playing it until you got caught again. But that didn't stop teams from using it or variations of zone.

It was probably played as often as it is now, which is to say, not very often.

Since Illegal D was the hardest thing to spot during a game for refs, it was often just missed.

But like I said, the numbers show that almost no one plays it today, man-to-man is the primary defensive scheme for all teams, and real life isn't NBA 2K.
??
There were technical fouls whistled for illegal defense against both teams in that very game from '86 playoffs.
And I'd also say calls are missed more today than they were then.

[LA Lakers]

Sad the old Boston Garden gone forever and everytime I drive by Inglewood or take the Blue Line there is my Great Western Forum and I can almost hear Chick telling me the fridge door is closed, the lights are out, butters getting hard and the jello's jiggling... Different time. Can you imagine all of those legends playing in the era of the Internet?

[veilside23]

sad that some kids didnt get to witness the goat... they only saw this in youtube. and still think it was possible..

[aj1987]

20Four are you really gonna put zero effort in hiding the fact that this is your alt?

Also, bitch isn't censored. ****ing idiot.
:oldlol:

Dude has the IQ of a rock.

[IllegalD]

Wait, did some Jordan Stan REALLY just try to use Danny Ainge guarding Jordan in his argument as to why this performance is impressive...?

:lol :oldlol: :roll:

[knicksman]

well whats the record for wilt in the playoffs?:lol

[tontoz]

I mean doesn't the fact that the Bulls lost the game overshadow mj's 63 pts?
Now if he had won that game against the Celtics then the 63 would look more impressive but since that was not the case then why is that game always referred to?

is it because it's Michael Jordan? because not only did the bulls lose the game but also the series. so why the hell is this 63 in defeat so f8cking special?

someone? anyone?


Boston only lost one home game all season. They won the title that year and are widely seen as one of the best teams ever. The Bulls were the 8th seed.

http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g195/tontoz/smack-1.gif (http://s56.photobucket.com/user/tontoz/media/smack-1.gif.html)








http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g195/tontoz/Gay20Thread20congrats.jpg (http://s56.photobucket.com/user/tontoz/media/Gay20Thread20congrats.jpg.html)

[Hey Yo]

The Bulls were swept by the Celtics and swept again by the Celtics the following year (the Bulls went 40-42 and were the #8 seed again). Both were first round series. (The Bulls were on their way to losing in the first round for the fourth consecutive year in 1988 when Doug Collins inserted Pippen into the starting lineup for the decisive Game 5--his first career start--after the Bulls blew a 2-0 start to the best of 5 series. Pippen provided the spark Collins sought and scored 24, although MJ was the main reason they won with 39 points)
I may be wrong but I think MJ started out 0-16 against Boston until he finally beat them. Regular and postseason combined.

[Roundball_Rock]

Wow.

Here is a good, old thread on MJ vs. Bird. http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=146170

[navy]

Anyone remember that weak ass foul call to extend the game Jordan got? How many points did he have at that time?

[dubeta]

This thread already proved Jordan was a blatant stat padder
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=344737

Any of his stats before his championships should be ignored

[Poetry]

??
There were technical fouls whistled for illegal defense against both teams in that very game from '86 playoffs.

That's exactly my point. It happened all the time in games, otherwise, there would never be any whistles.

Teams would play it when they could, if they got caught, they got caught, but they played it. The whistles are proof.

Today you have teams that play zone as little as 1 percent of the time.

If you break down the minutes of defense played in a regular NBA game today and then draw 1 percent from that time, it comes out to about 15 seconds or something incredibly low.

Even a team like the Warriors who tend to play zone the most in recent times only play it around 10 percent of the time, which comes out to about a couple of minutes.


And I'd also say calls are missed more today than they were then.

There are more eyes on the court officiating now.

And keep in mind, back then they used to look for basic instances of traveling, even in the all-star game. Today, they don't look for it, and they only call it if it's blatant.

Officials were looking for things like that and a person can only look at one or two things at a time.

If you're trying to see if one player is committing a foul on another player, your eyes aren't focused on seeing what an entire team is doing or what defense they're playing.

We see things the same way a camera lens does, sometimes we focus on one object, and sometimes we zoom out to focus on everything, but it's impossible to take in everything at once and appreciate what's going on completely.

So calls were missed then, just like they're missed today.

[sportsfan76]

So according to OP's logic, if Jordan had scored 2 points but hit the game winner THEN his performance could be talked about


At the end of the day it's all about the WIN. Not stats.


Like in football when the Pats when undefeated until the SB and lost. Do you think the 16-0 should still be hyped if they lost the SB?

[sportsfan76]

Boston only lost one home game all season. They won the title that year and are widely seen as one of the best teams ever. The Bulls were the 8th seed.

http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g195/tontoz/smack-1.gif (http://s56.photobucket.com/user/tontoz/media/smack-1.gif.html)








http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g195/tontoz/Gay20Thread20congrats.jpg (http://s56.photobucket.com/user/tontoz/media/Gay20Thread20congrats.jpg.html)



But that ONE LOSS wasn't the game when MJ 63 pts doe

[SouBeachTalents]

At the end of the day it's all about the WIN. Not stats.


Like in football when the Pats when undefeated until the SB and lost. Do you think the 16-0 should still be hyped if they lost the SB?

So by this logic Horry > Jordan

[sekachu]

I mean doesn't the fact that the Bulls lost the game overshadow mj's 63 pts?
Now if he had won that game against the Celtics then the 63 would look more impressive but since that was not the case then why is that game always referred to?

is it because it's Michael Jordan? because not only did the bulls lose the game but also the series. so why the hell is this 63 in defeat so f8cking special?

someone? anyone?



Beside that was a playoff record. Michael Jordan did it against argubly one of the Greatest team in his "second years only" and just coming back from injury.

[DonDadda59]

That's exactly my point. It happened all the time in games, otherwise, there would never be any whistles.

Teams would play it when they could, if they got caught, they got caught, but they played it. The whistles are proof.

Today you have teams that play zone as little as 1 percent of the time.


Yeah, we've been over this 'zone' defense bullshit ad nauseam here but people still don't learn. Synergy Sports published a report that showed that the league wide average for zone being played was around 3% of team's defensive possessions. Some teams,like the #1 rated defense IND, didn't play a single possession. Another interesting tidbit was that players actually shot better versus zone defense than when they were facing man to man.

And like you pointed out, teams have been getting away with (or at least trying to) playing zone for decades. That's one of the reasons the league did away with the illegal D rule- it was too hard and too confusing for refs to regulate/enforce.

Media coverage from the 80s + 90s:


LA QUINTA, Calif. -- Responding to the proliferation of all-out zone defenses being implemented as the 1988-89 season unfolded, the Competition Committee of the National Basketball Association has, for the umpteenth time, attempted to address the matter at the league meetings.

"We received a great many complaints, especially over the last third of the season," said league vice president of operations Rod Thorn.

-'NBA TARGETS ZONE DEFENSE', Boston Globe
9/18/89

'Anyway, the assumption that zone defenses are not played in the NBA is false. The rules allow for full-court zone pressure, and because defenses are permitted to aggressively double-team the ball anywhere on the floor, teams play de facto zones in the frontcourt, top. To one degree or another, every NBA team uses some type of zone. Throw in the added pressure of "staying legal"—i.e., not violating the defensive guidelines—and an NBA coach can only laugh when he hears about a lack of creativity in the pros.'

-'They're coaching in the NBA, not in the NCAA'; Jack McCallum, SI.com
11/5/90

'Zone. It's a dirty word in the NBA, but Los Angeles Lakers' Coach Pat Riley has hung it on the Boston Celtics. Riley accused the Celtics of blatant use of an illegal defense against center Kareem Abdul-Jabbar during the Celtics' 148-114 romp Monday in the opening game of the best-of-seven championship series.'

-Miami Herald
5/30/85

''My concerns are that more teams are going to the trap,'' said [Chuck] Daly, ''which ultimately ends in a zone defense for a period of seconds, which makes it extremely difficult to attack in the 15 or so odd seconds after it crosses the half-court line to set up the offense. In college ball, where zones are legal, they use a 45-second clock.

''After our game Tuesday night against Miami, I watched the Laker and Chicago game on satellite TV. I noticed that Chicago has adopted a half-court that L.A. has been using so successfully and it ended up in a zone defense for a period of seconds, which forced L.A. to take a quick shot without the ability to set up their half-court offense.''

Before flying to New York yesterday, Daly put the Pistons through what he called a ''reasonably hard workout and a film session.''

''When you play New York,'' he said, ''you have to prepare yourself because they have so many different traps.''

-'Defense Becomes a Pressing Problem in the NBA', NY Times
12/22/88

Chicago Is Zoning In

A farmer at heart, Phil Jackson was planting seeds again today. He kept referring to Seattle's tenacious defense as a "zone defense," perhaps angling early for some illegal defense calls.

"The one we like the best is the box and one on Michael," Jackson said.

Jackson also basically dared George Karl to stick Gary Payton on Michael Jordan, saying he genuinely believed the Sonics would not make that move. "I don't think Seattle is going to put Gary Payton on Michael Jordan," Jackson said. "We like that matchup because he'll get in foul trouble.

"In a zone defense like Seattle plays, they're just going to send him some way where they can double-team him all the time."

-'N.B.A. FINALS: NOTEBOOK;Jackson Can't Picture The Nets in His Future', NY Times
6/4/96

[Lord Bean]

Why is this discussion still going on. It is quite clear to all objective fans that Michael jordan is better than Lebron and this will never change. We need to stop making these type of threads to discredit Jordan greatness and prop up Lebron like a false idol.

[SouBeachTalents]

Why is this discussion still going on. It is quite clear to all objective fans that Michael jordan is better than Lebron & Kobe and this will never change. We need to stop making these type of threads to discredit Jordan greatness and prop up Lebron like a false idol.

Fixed

[SamuraiSWISH]

Let's see:

Sophomore Season, recovering from broken foot.
Guarded by one of the best defenders ever, Dennis Johnson.
No supporting cast truly capable of helping him compete.
Going 1 v.s. 5 against arguably the best basketball team ever.

That's why. GOAT gonna GOAT

[IllegalD]

Let's see:

Sophomore Season, recovering from broken foot.
Guarded by one of the best defenders ever, Dennis Johnson.
No supporting cast truly capable of helping him compete.
Going 1 v.s. 5 against arguably the best basketball team ever.

That's why. GOAT gonna GOAT

You forgot: *needed 2 OTs to reach 63. Still lost.

GOAT gonna...:lol

[SamuraiSWISH]

You forgot: *needed 2 OTs to reach 63. Still lost.

GOAT gonna...:lol
Scoring 63 in overtimes is a negative now?

:oldlol:

Like those buckets don't count ... Kids. Those hipster jeans cut off circulation to yall's brains. No wonder you have lucid thoughts of LeBron being GOAT.

[La Frescobaldi]

well whats the record for wilt in the playoffs?:lol

56.

He had 35 rebounds in that same game and they won by 17.

[La Frescobaldi]

That's exactly my point. It happened all the time in games, otherwise, there would never be any whistles.

Teams would play it when they could, if they got caught, they got caught, but they played it. The whistles are proof.

Today you have teams that play zone as little as 1 percent of the time.

If you break down the minutes of defense played in a regular NBA game today and then draw 1 percent from that time, it comes out to about 15 seconds or something incredibly low.

Even a team like the Warriors who tend to play zone the most in recent times only play it around 10 percent of the time, which comes out to about a couple of minutes.



There are more eyes on the court officiating now.

And keep in mind, back then they used to look for basic instances of traveling, even in the all-star game. Today, they don't look for it, and they only call it if it's blatant.

Officials were looking for things like that and a person can only look at one or two things at a time.

If you're trying to see if one player is committing a foul on another player, your eyes aren't focused on seeing what an entire team is doing or what defense they're playing.

We see things the same way a camera lens does, sometimes we focus on one object, and sometimes we zoom out to focus on everything, but it's impossible to take in everything at once and appreciate what's going on completely.

So calls were missed then, just like they're missed today.

Absolutely. I didn't catch the tone of your post earlier. Oh yeah, teams are constantly looking for that edge no question.
Jabbar, Thurmond, all those Centers in the '70s got triple teamed constantly and those guys just weren't collapsing that fast, they were playing zones. There's some clips on youtube of Chamberlain throwing down dunks in the '70 Finals where all five Knicks are guarding him - Bradley, Frazier, Cazzie, Reed and Debusschere all jumping with him. In those days before a 3 point line, that was still the best chance to score - but how did they all get there at the same time as the ball?? Sure, it was a zone. I didn't mind that missed whistle, I was a Knicks fan.:roll: But everybody knew it.

I do have one question though........ does it actually help to play zone defense today? In the earlier days there's no question it helped, because the idea was to get/stop layups. But after 30 years of the 3 point line, players have finally learned to shoot from out there.
Does a zone today actually help, or hurt the defensive team?

[diamenz]

mj str8 up abused and embarrassed boston's frontcourt in that game

[OldSchoolBBall]

You forgot: *needed 2 OTs to reach 63. Still lost.

GOAT gonna...:lol

As opposed to Kobe, who needed OT to have the ONE 50-point playoff game of his career...and still lost? :coleman:

[andgar923]

People still bringing up 'zone'?

What is this, 2003? :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

[Roundball_Rock]

Going 1 v.s. 5 against arguably the best basketball team ever.

Woolridge was a 20+ ppg "second option."

[guy]

Do people realize that Jordan has countless playoff performances that are rarely if ever mentioned that are right on par if not better then the majority if not all of Kobe and Lebron's greatest playoff performances? And they're mostly all wins too. So the people that are implying its all media hype really need to stop bitching.

[OldSchoolBBall]

Woolridge was a 20+ ppg "second option."

He shot 40% in that series (45% TS) - atrocious for anyone, let alone a "big man." :oldlol:

I love how you keep saying this in various threads when it's clear that, to anyone who watched him, Woolridge was certainly NOT what we typically conceive of as a 20 ppg scorer. The majority of his points came off of offensive rebounds, garbage points, and dunks in transition or off feeds from penetrating players. He was not a guy you feed the ball to and let him work in the post all game.

[juju151111]

Woolridge was a 20+ ppg "second option."
Sit your dumbass down Woodbridge garbage. Mj still hold the playoffs record to this day. Add like two other 50+ games in the playoffs.

[sportsfan76]

Scoring 63 in overtimes is a negative now?

:oldlol:

Like those buckets don't count ... Kids. Those hipster jeans cut off circulation to yall's brains. No wonder you have lucid thoughts of LeBron being GOAT.


but it was 63 over a span of 6 qtrs doe

[Calabis]

Woolridge was a 20+ ppg "second option."

And shot a miserable 41%. How about you watch the series and see how bad he really played instead of running to basketball reference a yelling out numbers with no context.

You're trying to make Woolridge out to be Wade in 2011....who outscored James on high percentage and played very good ball:facepalm

[Calabis]

but it was 63 over a span of 6 qtrs doe

More than Lebron in 8 quarters in the Spurs series game 1 and 2

[hiphopfan777]

Kobe's 81 was better. $81 > $63.

[SHAQisGOAT]

He shot 40% in that series (45% TS) - atrocious for anyone, let alone a "big man." :oldlol:

I love how you keep saying this in various threads when it's clear that, to anyone who watched him, Woolridge was certainly NOT what we typically conceive of as a 20 ppg scorer. The majority of his points came off of offensive rebounds, garbage points, and dunks in transition or off feeds from penetrating players. He was not a guy you feed the ball to and let him work in the post all game.

People are overrating Orlando yea but also don't underrate him... He was a 6'9 athletic freak with a ridiculous physique, a capable 20 ppg scorer at SF (not really a big-man) with his physical gifts and nice skill... He didn't have great range nor shot 80% from the FT but he could definitely knock jumpers from mid-to-close range (while shooting over 75% FT), he had a nice post-game and good soft-touch when close to the rim, could handle the ball well too. With that said, he didn't care much about defense (when he tried he was nice due to his athleticism), he didn't care much for defensive rebounding (instead leaking out on every chance), and his PPG plus FG% might suggest he was a really impactful scorer/player (at least to some basketball geeks) but he really wasn't, not even that close, despite being a decent passer too... even got to reach 25 PPG on .565 TS% once, but for a horrible team that played absolutely no defense. Still, let's not underrate him also, he was a "legit" 20 PPG scorer, at his best.

This paints a good picture of what his game was about: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=inyF2dxtndI