Swap LeBron with Jordan on the Cavs from 04-10

[SouBeachTalents]

How many championships do you honestly think they win?

[Kvnzhangyay]

0 no shit....

[NBAplayoffs2001]

How many championships do you honestly think they win?
3 peat
07-08
08-09
and 09-10

[Angel Face]

Jordan from what year?

[dubeta]

0, they aint making playoffs from 2004-2008

from 2009-10 they lose in 1st round or at best 2nd round if they're lucky

Jordan couldnt beat the Pistons back then without Pippen you think he could beat the 2004-2008 championship Pistons? :lol

[Kvnzhangyay]

2007 - Ring
2008 - Ring
2009 - Ring
2010 - Ring

Now we know you weren't old enough to watch Jordan :lol

[KD35Brah]

07 through 10.

[Mr. Incredible]

One.

[Black and White]

0, they aint making playoffs from 2004-2008

from 2009-10 they lose in 1st round or at best 2nd round if they're lucky

Jordan couldnt beat the Pistons back then without Pippen you think he could beat the 2004-2008 championship Pistons? :lol

:biggums:

[SamuraiSWISH]

Now we know you weren't old enough to watch Jordan :lol
Prime Jordan? '88 - '93. Obviously you never saw him.

He's not getting put in a straight jacket by old Bruce Bown in 2007. With that utterly pathetic Finals performance. He's not shooting that poorly v.s. the Celtics in 2008. They're not losing to the 2009 Magic, regardless of Mo Williams. I shutter to think what prime MJ would do to Courtney Lee. And in 2010? MJ destroys an even older Celtics team, with KG 75% of what he was previously.

Then let's say '95 - '98 Jordan goes to the Wade, Bosh, Allen, Haslem Miami Heat, like LeBron did? And they win in 2011, 2012, 2013, and put up a better fight in 2014 in a hard fought loss.

[TheCorporation]

Does Jordan also get Pippen and Phil Jackson?

[nzahir]

Prime Jordan? '88 - '93. Obviously you never saw him.

He's not getting put in a straight jacket by old Bruce Bown in 2007. With that utterly pathetic Finals performance. He's not shooting that poorly v.s. the Celtics in 2008. They're not losing to the 2009 Magic, regardless of Mo Williams. I shutter to think what prime MJ would do to Courtney Lee. And in 2010? MJ destroys an even older Celtics team, with KG 75% of what he was previously.

Then let's say '95 - '98 Jordan goes to the Wade, Bosh, Allen, Haslem Miami Heat, like LeBron did? And they win in 2011, 2012, 2013, and put up a better fight in 2014 in a hard fought loss.
Lebron avg around 38 8 8 against the magic that year and they lost..

[nzahir]

They win nothing still; jordan couldnt even win in the playoffs until scottie and horace and rodman all came along; god knows what he would have done with eric snow and gooden.

[SamuraiSWISH]

Lebron avg around 38 8 8 against the magic that year and they lost..
MJ would've put up over 40.

[JohnFreeman]

Jordan wouldn't win a ring

[TheCorporation]

Lebron avg around 38 8 8 against the magic that year and they lost..

Ethered :lol

MJ was getting bumped out of the 1st round before Pippen came along. LeBron never played with a player even close to Pippen's skillset during his Cavs days.

[archkiller]

0 ring. Ain't winning shit with Mike Brown as your coach.

[RedBlackAttack]

These threads are so incredibly stupid. Teams would be built completely differently around each players' respective skill sets. My god, people.

And, let's stop comparing James to Jordan shall we? That ship has long sailed. Just stop.

[SouBeachTalents]

These threads are so incredibly stupid. Teams would be built completely differently around each players' respective skill sets. My god, people.

And, let's stop comparing James to Jordan shall we? That ship has long sailed. Just stop.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-YdN4I4lRPg

[Lebron23]

Zero

[knicksman]

0, they aint making playoffs from 2004-2008

from 2009-10 they lose in 1st round or at best 2nd round if they're lucky

Jordan couldnt beat the Pistons back then without Pippen you think he could beat the 2004-2008 championship Pistons? :lol

Bro your trolling doesnt even pass realgm standards. Its really time to stop posting.

[knicksman]

Once jordan knew how to win, theres no stopping him. No matter who his teammates are. People really overrate pippen but hes just another iguodala. Its just that jordan pushed him to his limits.

[JellyBean]

I say at least two rings.

[OldSchoolBBall]

Lebron avg around 38 8 8 against the magic that year and they lost..

It was about how he averaged that. He dominated the ball to an extent not seen since prime Iverson.

[Lebron23]

Once jordan knew how to win, theres no stopping him. No matter who his teammates are. People really overrate pippen but hes just another iguodala. Its just that jordan pushed him to his limits.


Pippen almost beat your Knicks in the 1994 eastern conference semi finals without MJ.

Pippen was a superior player than Iggy. Jordan never won any series without Pippen.

[Lebron23]

It was about how he averaged that. He dominated the ball to an extent not seen since prime Iverson.


Who was going to score for the Cavs? Mo Williams was so terrible in the playoffs.

[Ne 1]

Lebron avg around 38 8 8 against the magic that year and they lost..
I do think there were actually some areas where LeBron could have stepped up in that series, in particular his defense. His defense was pretty poor in the '09 ECF vs Orlando and practically exposed. I remember people were talking about how he was a DPOY candidate that year and he showed how he wasn't even close in that series. They assigned him to Rafer Alston and made him sag off of him and the thing is LeBron didn't make much of an impact on help defense. He didn't really bother Dwight, although it was hard to do so because of how deep he was setting up, but I don't remember him pressuring the ball to take time off the clock. Kobe's help defense on Dwight in the Finals was a good bit better and he often stripped him or forced a deflection.

He also wasn't that good in some of the fourth quarters like missing 5 free throws in game 3 and a whole bunch of turnovers in game 4 late in the game. Game 6 was also pretty weak, 2 points in the fourth.

It is true he didn't get much help vs Orlando although I don't think that his performance was as astonishing as some people consider it.

[Roundball_Rock]

:oldlol: at people saying the Cavs would have won rings with Jordan. We actually saw MJ--the real life MJ, not the MJ of mythology--on teams equal to or inferior to those Cavs (i.e. Lebron never had a 20+ ppg second scorer like MJ did in Woolridge in 85' and 86'). Here are the results:

38-44, 1-3 in the playoffs.
30-52, 0-3 in the playoffs. The Bulls were 9-9 when MJ played in the regular seson.
40-42, 0-3 in the playoffs.
50-32, 4-6 in the playoffs. The Bulls blew a 2-0 lead against the Cavs and faced a decisive Game 5 (the first round was 5 games back then). Doug Collins inserted rookie Pippen into the starting lineup for the first time to give the team a spark and Pippen had a good game to help the Bulls finally get out the first round. No Pippen=a fourth consecutive first round loss.

Meanwhile LeBron was routinely winning 60+ games, made a Finals, two ECF's while in Cleveland and even Lebron out of high school improved his team more (17 wins to 35 wins) than MJ from Dean Smith's UNC (27 wins to 38 wins).

[PJR]

:oldlol: at people saying the Cavs would have won rings with Jordan. We actually saw MJ--the real life MJ, not the MJ of mythology--on teams equal to or inferior to those Cavs (i.e. Lebron never had a 20+ ppg second scorer like MJ did in Woolridge in 85' and 86'). Here are the results:

38-44, 1-3 in the playoffs.
30-52, 0-3 in the playoffs. The Bulls were 9-9 when MJ played in the regular seson.
40-42, 0-3 in the playoffs.
50-32, 4-6 in the playoffs. The Bulls blew a 2-0 lead against the Cavs and faced a decisive Game 5 (the first round was 5 games back then). Doug Collins inserted rookie Pippen into the starting lineup for the first time to give the team a spark and Pippen had a good game to help the Bulls finally get out the first round. No Pippen=a fourth consecutive first round loss.

Meanwhile LeBron was routinely winning 60+ games, made a Finals, two ECF's while in Cleveland and even Lebron out of high school improved his team more (17 wins to 35 wins) than MJ from Dean Smith's UNC (27 wins to 38 wins).

Yeah.

Michael is the greatest, but it's really gotten to the point where his 'legend' has now outgrown the reality.

We saw Michael with Cavs like supporting cast. He didn't do shit with them.

[juju151111]

:oldlol: at people saying the Cavs would have won rings with Jordan. We actually saw MJ--the real life MJ, not the MJ of mythology--on teams equal to or inferior to those Cavs (i.e. Lebron never had a 20+ ppg second scorer like MJ did in Woolridge in 85' and 86'). Here are the results:

38-44, 1-3 in the playoffs.
30-52, 0-3 in the playoffs. The Bulls were 9-9 when MJ played in the regular seson.
40-42, 0-3 in the playoffs.
50-32, 4-6 in the playoffs. The Bulls blew a 2-0 lead against the Cavs and faced a decisive Game 5 (the first round was 5 games back then). Doug Collins inserted rookie Pippen into the starting lineup for the first time to give the team a spark and Pippen had a good game to help the Bulls finally get out the first round. No Pippen=a fourth consecutive first round loss.

Meanwhile LeBron was routinely winning 60+ games, made a Finals, two ECF's while in Cleveland and even Lebron out of high school improved his team more (17 wins to 35 wins) than MJ from Dean Smith's UNC (27 wins to 38 wins).
LeBron busy losing series with hca while Mj wasn't. In 07 vs the spurs the games were close because the Cavs were a top defensive team. All LJ had to do was show up slightly offensive ly against a bruce Bowen who played off him cause he can't shoot. Who has bruce Bowen admitted to being his toughest cover Michael Jordan. Lmao. 08 LeBron plays horrible defense on PP. 09 Wyd hca 1# seed and losses to the freaking Magics? #10. HCA choke. 11hca and lose to the mavs:wtf:

[juju151111]

:oldlol: at people saying the Cavs would have won rings with Jordan. We actually saw MJ--the real life MJ, not the MJ of mythology--on teams equal to or inferior to those Cavs (i.e. Lebron never had a 20+ ppg second scorer like MJ did in Woolridge in 85' and 86'). Here are the results:

38-44, 1-3 in the playoffs.
30-52, 0-3 in the playoffs. The Bulls were 9-9 when MJ played in the regular seson.
40-42, 0-3 in the playoffs.
50-32, 4-6 in the playoffs. The Bulls blew a 2-0 lead against the Cavs and faced a decisive Game 5 (the first round was 5 games back then). Doug Collins inserted rookie Pippen into the starting lineup for the first time to give the team a spark and Pippen had a good game to help the Bulls finally get out the first round. No Pippen=a fourth consecutive first round loss.

Meanwhile LeBron was routinely winning 60+ games, made a Finals, two ECF's while in Cleveland and even Lebron out of high school improved his team more (17 wins to 35 wins) than MJ from Dean Smith's UNC (27 wins to 38 wins).
You mean no Mj and the Cavs would of won. 44pts, gamewinne r

[OldSchoolBBall]

:oldlol: at people saying the Cavs would have won rings with Jordan. We actually saw MJ--the real life MJ, not the MJ of mythology--on teams equal to or inferior to those Cavs (i.e. Lebron never had a 20+ ppg second scorer like MJ did in Woolridge in 85' and 86'). Here are the results:

38-44, 1-3 in the playoffs.
30-52, 0-3 in the playoffs. The Bulls were 9-9 when MJ played in the regular seson.
40-42, 0-3 in the playoffs.
50-32, 4-6 in the playoffs. The Bulls blew a 2-0 lead against the Cavs and faced a decisive Game 5 (the first round was 5 games back then). Doug Collins inserted rookie Pippen into the starting lineup for the first time to give the team a spark and Pippen had a good game to help the Bulls finally get out the first round. No Pippen=a fourth consecutive first round loss.

Meanwhile LeBron was routinely winning 60+ games, made a Finals, two ECF's while in Cleveland and even Lebron out of high school improved his team more (17 wins to 35 wins) than MJ from Dean Smith's UNC (27 wins to 38 wins).

Jordan was playing on teams that were similarly talent deprived as Lebron's Cavs, but he was doing it in a far more talent laden league, a better league, and especially a better EC. So the disparity between the Bulls' talent level and the league was greater than between Lebron's Cavs and the league. On top of that, Jordan was facing ALL TIME GREAT teams in the playoffs. LOL @ the notion that '87-'89 Jordan doesn't get to the second round or ECF on ANY team in the '07-'14 EC. Stop trolling, son. :biggums: :hammerhead:

[OnFire]

A fairer comparison would be if you compare Jordan at the same age.

I don't think Jordan at the same age would have significantly improved anything about he Cavs, especially since at the age LeBron first reached the NBA finals, Jordan was in his second NBA season spending that year of his life with a Broken ankle, missing all but 18 games. Doubt he'd improve on James first Finals run since his Bulls team won 30 games that year (only 8 games dropoff from his rookie year).

[Roundball_Rock]

Yeah.

Michael is the greatest, but it's really gotten to the point where his 'legend' has now outgrown the reality.

We saw Michael with Cavs like supporting cast. He didn't do shit with them.

Exactly. His actual record is ignored in favor of a series of myths. My favorite is when people say "MJ would never have..." when the real life MJ actually did the same thing!


doing it in a far more talent laden league

The most talented players from one country, not the world...It is funny how people invoke LeBron's Finals losses and compare it to past players without acknowledging that all his losses came against teams that would not have existed in previous eras. Practically all of the 14' Spurs' rotation consists of foreign players...


On top of that, Jordan was facing ALL TIME GREAT teams in the playoffs.

Yeah he played great teams in the first round--that is what happens when you are entering the playoffs as the #7 or #8 seed. LeBron almost always has a high seed so he avoids the best teams in the first round...As to their second round losses, were the Pistons really better than the "Big 3" Celtics? If it were not for injuries the Celtics easily could have three-peated.

[OnFire]

Jordan was playing on teams that were similarly talent deprived as Lebron's Cavs, but he was doing it in a far more talent laden league, a better league, and especially a better EC. So the disparity between the Bulls' talent level and the league was greater than between Lebron's Cavs and the league. On top of that, Jordan was facing ALL TIME GREAT teams in the playoffs. LOL @ the notion that '87-'89 Jordan doesn't get to the second round or ECF on ANY team in the '07-'14 EC. Stop trolling, son. :biggums: :hammerhead:

Those Jordan teams wouldn't have done any better against the Ben Wallace nad Rasheed Wallace pistons than he did against the 80's pistons.

[juju151111]

Those Jordan teams wouldn't have done any better against the Ben Wallace nad Rasheed Wallace pistons than he did against the 80's pistons.
He would beat the Pistons in 07 easily. LJ only had one good Gm I think when Prince got injured at the end of game 5. He played garbage most of that series.

[Jlamb47]

maybe 1 or 2
hes wouldnt dissapear like Lebron but itl be tought one

[Sakkreth]

Zero.

[Dave3]

Never watched Jordan but if what I gather from most of the good posters here about his ability, I see them winning in 2010. I can't imagine a player doing any better than LeBron in the 2009 playoffs short of shutting down Dwight Howard himself.

2008 the Celtics were a lot better and even though LeBron played like crap the first couple of games I see the series going differently from games 3-7 if the Cavs were able to take one of the first 2.

2007 there was no chance against the Spurs I don't think, and them getting past the Pistons was unexpected to begin with, and took a miracle game 5 that I can't imagine being replicated. While he played worse throughout the series, it's hard to judge how a player would affect that series (regardless of ability) because of how extreme the variance in performance was. They probably do beat the Pistons though.

2004-2006 I don't think anyone's tried to say Jordan would win, so no point in going there.

If anyone has actually watched Jordan (I know it's unlikely) let me know what you think about this.

I think it's very hard and unfair to blame LeBron for any of the losses from 2006-2009. It's hard to believe anyone in history could've won the title those years. In 2010 however I feel even LeBron playing at his best would have won it, and if Jordan was better, then he definitely would have won it.

[Roundball_Rock]

Never watched Jordan but if what I gather from most of the good posters here about his ability, I see them winning in 2010.

The Cavs with MJ, Mo Williams, and Jamison would have beaten the Celtics--a Celtics team that took the stacked Lakers with Kobe/Gasol/Odom/Artest to the absolute limit? Even if you postulate that MJ would win with the Cavs over Boston, would the MJ Cavs beat the Lakers? The Magic in the ECF were no pushover either. They won 60 games that year and Dwight was great.

[Dave3]

The Cavs with MJ, Mo Williams, and Jamison would have beaten the Celtics--a Celtics team that took the stacked Lakers with Kobe/Gasol/Odom/Artest to the absolute limit? Even if you postulate that MJ would win with the Cavs over Boston, would the MJ Cavs beat the Lakers? The Magic in the ECF were no pushover either. They won 60 games that year and Dwight was great.
I definitely see them beating the Lakers yes. Shaq/Hickson dominated Bynum/Gasol in their match ups and Jordan should destroy Kobe.

The way I look at it is this - if LeBron played to his 2009 playoff standards in 2010, they would've won the championship. I imagine what people describe Jordan as, to be about the same as that version of LeBron, in which case I'd have to assume they'd win.

[GODbe]

He'd probably lose in the first round or not even make the playoffs. Dude was first round fodder in an even weaker era before Scottie Pippen saved him. Now we're swapping him to a team with no Pippen? :confusedshrug:

[juju151111]

The Cavs with MJ, Mo Williams, and Jamison would have beaten the Celtics--a Celtics team that took the stacked Lakers with Kobe/Gasol/Odom/Artest to the absolute limit? Even if you postulate that MJ would win with the Cavs over Boston, would the MJ Cavs beat the Lakers? The Magic in the ECF were no pushover either. They won 60 games that year and Dwight was great.
Mj never lose with HCA so I see them winning in a hard fought series. Cavs were a top defensive team.

[ArbitraryWater]

2007 - Ring
2008 - Ring
2009 - Ring
2010 - Ring

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[juju151111]

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
What's so funny?

[LeBird]

:oldlol: at people saying the Cavs would have won rings with Jordan. We actually saw MJ--the real life MJ, not the MJ of mythology--on teams equal to or inferior to those Cavs (i.e. Lebron never had a 20+ ppg second scorer like MJ did in Woolridge in 85' and 86'). Here are the results:

38-44, 1-3 in the playoffs.
30-52, 0-3 in the playoffs. The Bulls were 9-9 when MJ played in the regular seson.
40-42, 0-3 in the playoffs.
50-32, 4-6 in the playoffs. The Bulls blew a 2-0 lead against the Cavs and faced a decisive Game 5 (the first round was 5 games back then). Doug Collins inserted rookie Pippen into the starting lineup for the first time to give the team a spark and Pippen had a good game to help the Bulls finally get out the first round. No Pippen=a fourth consecutive first round loss.

Meanwhile LeBron was routinely winning 60+ games, made a Finals, two ECF's while in Cleveland and even Lebron out of high school improved his team more (17 wins to 35 wins) than MJ from Dean Smith's UNC (27 wins to 38 wins).

Thank you and good night.

A big fat zero.

[juju151111]

Thank you and good night.

A big fat zero.
He win 3 at least

[navy]

:oldlol: at people saying the Cavs would have won rings with Jordan. We actually saw MJ--the real life MJ, not the MJ of mythology--on teams equal to or inferior to those Cavs (i.e. Lebron never had a 20+ ppg second scorer like MJ did in Woolridge in 85' and 86'). Here are the results:

38-44, 1-3 in the playoffs.
30-52, 0-3 in the playoffs. The Bulls were 9-9 when MJ played in the regular seson.
40-42, 0-3 in the playoffs.
50-32, 4-6 in the playoffs. The Bulls blew a 2-0 lead against the Cavs and faced a decisive Game 5 (the first round was 5 games back then). Doug Collins inserted rookie Pippen into the starting lineup for the first time to give the team a spark and Pippen had a good game to help the Bulls finally get out the first round. No Pippen=a fourth consecutive first round loss.

Meanwhile LeBron was routinely winning 60+ games, made a Finals, two ECF's while in Cleveland and even Lebron out of high school improved his team more (17 wins to 35 wins) than MJ from Dean Smith's UNC (27 wins to 38 wins).

/thread

Let us not forget Mike Brown is garbage.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

One...maybe two?

As another poster mentioned, the Cavs teams from 04-10 were built perfectly around Bron's strengths. What Mike would be able to do with them...we really don't know. I'd venture to say his best chance at a ring would be in 2010, assuming he got to grow with the same roster(s) LeBron did.

[D-FENS]

2007 - Ring
2008 - Ring
2009 - Ring
2010 - Ring

This. Jordan would kill in this era of fake stars. Can you imagine what he'd do to sad-sacks like Paul George, LeBron and Durant? Those guys would be crying playing against him.

[Solefade]

I definitely see them beating the Lakers yes. Shaq/Hickson dominated Bynum/Gasol in their match ups and Jordan should destroy Kobe.




add this to the dumbest shit you've ever read on ISH :roll:

[dubeta]

The real question should be if cavs even make the playoffs in the weak east

[Dave3]

add this to the dumbest shit you've ever read on ISH :roll:
Proof you didn't actually watch those games. Gasol was a combined 9/24 in those 2 games and in the second game Hickson owned him on the glass with 14 rebounds. I especially remember that because of the fact that the year before Hickson was the one that lost the match up on the glass to Odom.

And Bynum had a combined 11 points in the 2 games, again, from the defense of those 2 guys and Vaerajo.

I wasn't implying that Shaq/Hickson both put up 20/10 on those guys, but that they neutralized the Lakers' arguably biggest threat - their front line. Given the context, I considered that "dominating."

[Roundball_Rock]

For the people who are saying MJ would win a ring or even multiple rings :lol with the Cavs how do you explain what MJ actually did when he had such teams?

38-44, first round.
9-9, first round sweep.
40-42, first round sweep.
50-32, narrowly got out the first round only to get trounced in the ECSF.

Even in 1989 when the Bulls got to the ECF (Pippen and Grant became the team's second and third best players that year) they were a 47 win team that needed MJ's famous game winner to even get out the first round. The Bulls easily could have lost in the first round every year from 1985-1989. They were not consistent contenders like the Cavs were with LeBron.

1985-1989 Bulls rankings

1985: 7th in the East
1986: 8th in the East
1987: 8th in the East
1988: t-3rd in the East
1989: 6th in the East

MJ fans are quick to point out the tough competition the Bulls had in the first round but they could have avoided that by having better seeds. LeBron's teams consistently are in the top half of the conference.

42 wins would get you the 5th seed in 85' and 46 would mean HCA in the first round. Three teams with a losing record, including the Bulls, made the Eastern playoffs. In the West 44 wins was enough to get the #4 seed. Only five teams won more than 48 games in the league.

1986: MJ played only 18 games but look at how "great" the league was. Only 51 wins got you the #2 seed and 47 wins the #3 seed in the West. Six losing teams made the playoffs, including the 30 win Bulls. A 44 win team had HCA in the first round.

1987: if the Bulls won 2 more games they could have gotten the #6 seed and played a 52 win team. 4 losing teams made the playoffs, including the Bulls, along with three 42 win teams.

1988: the Bulls win 50 games and finally get HCA in the first round. Three teams in the league made the playoffs with a losing record, including a 31 win team. Two teams made it with 42 wins. A grand total of two teams won 55+.

1989: The third best record in the East was held by a 52 win team, the Bulls won 47 and were not that far off. Had they won 2 more games they would have played the 52 win Hawks, not the 57 win Cavs, in the first round. Seven teams won 50+ with four 55+ win teams in the league.

How "tough" were the 80's? There were several teams below 0.500 making the playoffs every year and then a couple more teams barely above 0.500 getting as high as the #3 and #4 seeds. A 51 win team was the #2 seed in the West one year and a 42 win team made the Finals earlier in the decade. Only a handful of teams had good records in any given year, indicating talent was funneled to a few teams.

[tpols]

2010 would've been his best shot.. MJ wouldn't lay down in the middle of the Boston series and left for a better team to finally beat them.. He would've eventually slayed them like he did the Pistons. And a peak MJ facing a last prime year Kobe wouldn't be fair. Cavs had one of the best rebounding front court teams too so it's not like Pau and Odom would feast

[juju151111]

For the people who are saying MJ would win a ring or even multiple rings :lol with the Cavs how do you explain what MJ actually did when he had such teams?

38-44, first round.
9-9, first round sweep.
40-42, first round sweep.
50-32, narrowly got out the first round only to get trounced in the ECSF.

Even in 1989 when the Bulls got to the ECF (Pippen and Grant became the team's second and third best players that year) they were a 47 win team that needed MJ's famous game winner to even get out the first round. The Bulls easily could have lost in the first round every year from 1985-1989. They were not consistent contenders like the Cavs were with LeBron.

1985-1989 Bulls rankings

1985: 7th in the East
1986: 8th in the East
1987: 8th in the East
1988: t-3rd in the East
1989: 6th in the East

MJ fans are quick to point out the tough competition the Bulls had in the first round but they could have avoided that by having better seeds. LeBron's teams consistently are in the top half of the conference.

42 wins would get you the 5th seed in 85' and 46 would mean HCA in the first round. Three teams with a losing record, including the Bulls, made the Eastern playoffs. In the West 44 wins was enough to get the #4 seed. Only five teams won more than 48 games in the league.

1986: MJ played only 18 games but look at how "great" the league was. Only 51 wins got you the #2 seed and 47 wins the #3 seed in the West. Six losing teams made the playoffs, including the 30 win Bulls. A 44 win team had HCA in the first round.

1987: if the Bulls won 2 more games they could have gotten the #6 seed and played a 52 win team. 4 losing teams made the playoffs, including the Bulls, along with three 42 win teams.

1988: the Bulls win 50 games and finally get HCA in the first round. Three teams in the league made the playoffs with a losing record, including a 31 win team. Two teams made it with 42 wins. A grand total of two teams won 55+.

1989: The third best record in the East was held by a 52 win team, the Bulls won 47 and were not that far off. Had they won 2 more games they would have played the 52 win Hawks, not the 57 win Cavs, in the first round. Seven teams won 50+ with four 55+ win teams in the league.

How "tough" were the 80's? There were several teams below 0.500 making the playoffs every year and then a couple more teams barely above 0.500 getting as high as the #3 and #4 seeds. Only a handful of teams had good records, indicating talent was funneled to a few teams.
This is Mj on the Cavs not the Bulls we already know what happened idiot. In 07 Mj makes it to the finals and wins it. The Cavs didn't get blown out that series. They had a great defensive team and their superstar. Just didn't show up.

07 Game 1The Cavs lose by 9 points with their so called superstar not showing up going 4-16 for 14 pts and 6 TOs:lol Absolutely winnable game.

Game 2. 9-21 and 6 TOs. Lose by 11

Game 3 9-23 lose by 3. Why wasn't this a winnable game?

Game 4- 10-30 and lose by 1. Winnable game again. 6TOs

Like I said Mj has a great chance to win in 07 and 08.

[Roundball_Rock]

On the 89' Bulls, they were good enough to be 45-27 at one point but lost 8 of their final 10 games to slip to the 6th seed. They were battling for the third best record and the #4 seed (the Knicks at 52 wins won the weak Atlantic division) at that point. Interestingly, the Bulls were 13-11 and then went on a 32-16 tear (a 55 win pace over 82 games). Guess whose elevation as a permanent starter that improvement coincided with? :lol They lost their first game with Pippen starting but then won 9 of the next 11 games.

[juju151111]

On the 89' Bulls, they were good enough to be 45-27 at one point but lost 8 of their final 10 games to slip to the 6th seed. They were battling for the third best record and the #4 seed (the Knicks at 52 wins won the weak Atlantic division) at that point. Interestingly, the Bulls were 13-11 and then went on a 32-16 tear (a 55 win pace over 82 games). Guess whose elevation as a permanent starter that improvement coincided with? :lol They lost their first game with Pippen starting but then won 9 of the next 11 games.
Bulls win in 07. Bowen says MJ was has toughest Matchup and he faced Kobe and LeBron. Interesting fact the Cavs only lose by 10 and above once in that 07 finals. LJ played like hot garbage and that's when he could barley defend. 80s Mj can actually defend someone like Tony Parker and slow him down similar to Wat he did to Isiah in 1990 series.

[dubeta]

Bulls win in 07. Bowen says MJ was has toughest Matchup and he faced Kobe and LeBron. Interesting fact the Cavs only lose by 10 and above once in that 07 finals. LJ played like hot garbage and that's when he could barley defend. 80s Mj can actually defend someone like Tony Parker and slow him down similar to Wat he did to Isiah in 1990 series.

lmao ur assuming that cavs can even make the finals with jordan :roll:

[Goldrush25]

People act like we didn't already see this.

Do people actually realize that teams went in dry on MJ regularly until he was gifted a top 50 NBA player in Pippen and Phil Jackson came to the rescue?

Where's his top 50 all-timer on those teams, and don't say a decrepit Shaq. His #2 would've been Mo Williams? Mike Brown for head coach?:oldlol:

C'mon man.

[juju151111]

lmao ur assuming that cavs can even make the finals with jordan :roll:
Why wouldn't thet. The east is complete garbage.

[Magic 32]

I think he wins in 2008 and possibly in 2010.

The Cavs should have won game 1 in 2008.

[Ne 1]

Why wouldn't thet. The east is complete garbage.
It's funny how people ignore this. They beat two 40 win teams and a depleted Pistons squad. The Cavs were also an elite defensive team and an excellent rebounding team, any star perimeter player could have made it out of the East on the Cavs given their competition.

[OldSchoolBBall]

lmao ur assuming that cavs can even make the finals with jordan :roll:

You're out of your mind if you think Jordan doesn't beat those same teams Lebron beat to get to the Finals. :oldlol:

[PsychoBe]

You're out of your mind if you think Jordan doesn't beat those same teams Lebron beat to get to the Finals. :oldlol:

b-b-but the unstoppable gilbert arenas wizards :roll: :roll: :roll:

[knicksman]

:oldlol: at people saying the Cavs would have won rings with Jordan. We actually saw MJ--the real life MJ, not the MJ of mythology--on teams equal to or inferior to those Cavs (i.e. Lebron never had a 20+ ppg second scorer like MJ did in Woolridge in 85' and 86'). Here are the results:

38-44, 1-3 in the playoffs.
30-52, 0-3 in the playoffs. The Bulls were 9-9 when MJ played in the regular seson.
40-42, 0-3 in the playoffs.
50-32, 4-6 in the playoffs. The Bulls blew a 2-0 lead against the Cavs and faced a decisive Game 5 (the first round was 5 games back then). Doug Collins inserted rookie Pippen into the starting lineup for the first time to give the team a spark and Pippen had a good game to help the Bulls finally get out the first round. No Pippen=a fourth consecutive first round loss.

Meanwhile LeBron was routinely winning 60+ games, made a Finals, two ECF's while in Cleveland and even Lebron out of high school improved his team more (17 wins to 35 wins) than MJ from Dean Smith's UNC (27 wins to 38 wins).

LOL this idiot again. The reason why jordan wasnt a winner early on because he plays lebron ball-meaning statpadding. But were talking about mature jordan here. The guy who sacrificed stats to win. And those cavs team were a complete team for jordan. They have a defensive anchor and a playmaker. What those cleveland teams lack is a player who can score not during 1st quarters but during clutch situations.

[raprap]

I hate these kind of threads. Cmon OP:facepalm

[Paul George 24]

WHEN WILL LEFLOP STANS STOP MAKING EXCUSE ????
FACT IS LEFLOP NEVER MAKES HIS TEAMMATES ANY BETTER :no: