Has anyone ever averaged more points than Jordan in a playoff series playing vs him?

[Im so nba'd out]

Seeing how Chris Bosh and Jason Terry off the bench avg more ppg than LeBron in the 2011 finals.
Shaq Avg 40 while Kobe averaged 15 in the 2000 nba finals.It really makes you appreciate the greatness of the goat i don't think he ever got out scores in any playoff series ever anyone know if he has?

[SouBeachTalents]

Seeing how Chris Bosh and Jason Terry off the bench avg more ppg than LeBron in the 2011 finals.
Shaq Avg 40 while Kobe averaged 15 in the 2000 nba finals.It really makes you appreciate the greatness of the goat i don't think he ever got out scores in any playoff series ever anyone know if he has?

Very first playoff series, got slightly outscored by Terry Cummings

[Im so nba'd out]

Very first playoff series, got slightly outscored by Terry Cummings
wow he scored 1 more point than jordan that series .You would have to go to jordan's rookie year to find someone who out scored him in a series :bowdown:

Thanks for the answer soubeachtalents repped

[jzek]

Reason #457,584,987,159,357,125,349 why MJ is the GOAT.

[SamuraiSWISH]

This isn't LeBeta we're talking about here

[riseagainst]

rookie Jordan average 29 ppg in the first playoff series.

:bowdown:

[jlip]

Serious question...Has any player ever attempted more shots in a playoff series than MJ while playing with or against him?

[ninephive]

That is really impressive and MJ is the GOAT. But at the same time he did only win 1 total playoff game in those first 3 trips to the playoffs. And then had a couple non-playoff years at the end of his career. I think Jordan's greatest resume weakness is the 5 losing seasons (to be fair, it was really 4 with the season he was injured for a lot of it).

[SouBeachTalents]

That is really impressive and MJ is the GOAT. But at the same time he did only win 1 total playoff game in those first 3 trips to the playoffs. And then had a couple non-playoff years at the end of his career. I think Jordan's greatest resume weakness is the 5 losing seasons (to be fair, it was really 4 with the season he was injured for a lot of it).

You really hold his Wizards days against him?

[dubeta]

Jordan played in a weak era, he was the only scorer in the 80's and 90's why do you think he has 10 scoring titles? :facepalm

[Im so nba'd out]

Jordan played in a weak era, he was the only scorer in the 80's and 90's why do you think he has 10 scoring titles? :facepalm
get that hate out cha heart

[Dengness9]

Jordan played in a weak era, he was the only scorer in the 80's and 90's why do you think he has 10 scoring titles? :facepalm


:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

[SouBeachTalents]

Jordan played in a weak era, he was the only scorer in the 80's and 90's why do you think he has 10 scoring titles? :facepalm

Magic
Bird
Moses
Isiah
Kareem
Dominique
Hakeem
Barkley
Malone
Ewing
Stockton
Drexler
Robinson
Shaq
Payton

He played in an era with roughly 15 of the 50 greatest players of all time, and this era was weak to you?

[dubeta]

Magic
Bird
Moses
Isiah
Kareem
Dominique
Hakeem
Barkley
Malone
Ewing
Stockton
Drexler
Robinson
Shaq
Payton

He played in an era of roughly 15 of the 50 greatest players of all time, and this era was weak to you?

other than an aging bird, i see pg's and big men, no true wing scorers like in this era. It was a weak era for scorers

[ninephive]

You really hold his Wizards days against him?
When you compare his resume against someone like KAJ or Duncan, it should be taken into consideration. His years off don't help his resume ultimately either. Take Duncan for example...17 seasons, 17 seasons above .600. Jordan played 14 full seasons and 4 of them were sub-.500.

[ninephive]

Very first playoff series, got slightly outscored by Terry Cummings
Wow, TC did it shooting 20% better from the field than MJ! :bowdown:

[SouBeachTalents]

When you compare his resume against someone like KAJ or Duncan, it should be taken into consideration. His years off don't help his resume ultimately either. Take Duncan for example...17 seasons, 17 seasons above .600. Jordan played 14 full seasons and 4 of them were sub-.500.

His competitiveness shouldn't be held against him. I think playing baseball was a mistake, we could have potentially seen an 8-peat, but I commend him for coming back to the Wizards. He could have left on the highest note possible, but he wanted a new challenge and wanted to play basketball again while it was still physically possible, there's nothing wrong with that imo

[SHAQisGOAT]

wow he scored 1 more point than jordan that series .You would have to go to jordan's rookie year to find someone who out scored him in a series :bowdown:

Thanks for the answer soubeachtalents repped

Prime Terry Cummings was a dangerous scorer... 6'9, 230 lbs of muscle, very athletic with a jumper and a nice postgame.

How about Moncrief in that same series? Didn't outscore Jordan but he's the only SG who can claim he has a great case as far as outplaying MJ in a playoff series, h2h:
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=312018

[Marchesk]

other than an aging bird, i see pg's and big men, no true wing scorers like in this era. It was a weak era for scorers

Dominique & Barkley

And there was Benard King & Adrian Dantley & Mark Aquire.

[ninephive]

His competitiveness shouldn't be held against him. I think playing baseball was a mistake, we could have potentially seen an 8-peat, but I commend him for coming back to the Wizards. He could have left on the highest note possible, but he wanted a new challenge and wanted to play basketball again while it was still physically possible, there's nothing wrong with that imo
I agree and don't necessarily hold the season AGAINST him so much as it is just going to be a lack in comparison to some of the other greats. Duncan certainly could have gone out on top this past season, but he has that same competitive DNA and is going for more. In the same way, I don't think it would truly hurt him if he had a losing season at the end of his career, but if someone comes along and goes 20+ years winning at a 60%+ clip every year and racks up 5+ titles, you would have to hand it to that guy.

[Marchesk]

Forgot about Alex English:

6-7 small forward, over five seasons from 84-88, averaged 27.6 on 50% shooting.

[Soundwave]

Dominique Wilkins, Clyde Drexler, Grant Hill, Penny Hardaway, Mitch Richmond, Gary Payton, Glenn Rice, all played in the "Jordan era".

The reason there's so many more wing scorers today is precisely *because* of Jordan, every kid wants to be a flashy 2/3 player nowadays, no one wants to learn to play in the post even if they're 6'8 or 6'9 if they can help it.

Besides MJ was dropped 20+ a night with bad knees as a 40 year old in the Iverson/Carter/Kobe/T-Mac hey-day, scoring 30+ a night was simply easy for MJ, he had that down to a science.

[Marchesk]

Also, Dale Ellis and Chris Mullin.

Ellis had a 27.5 on 50% shooting with 47.8% from 3 (:eek:) in the 88 season.

[Roundball_Rock]

Dominique Wilkins, Clyde Drexler, Grant Hill, Penny Hardaway, Mitch Richmond, Gary Payton, Glenn Rice, all played in the "Jordan era".

The only super elite (i.e. being a 30+ ppg type) scorer in that group was Wilkins. The others were mostly 20-25 ppg types.

MJ's Wizards tenure should only be a minor factor in assessing him. It is relevant only in two contexts: 1) comparing him to someone with superior longevity like KAJ (who was still an all-NBA first teamer and top 5 in MVP voting in his 17th season and a legitimate all-star in his 18th season. MJ played 15 years and played only 17 and 18 games in two of them) 2) assessing some of the myths about him "making" players/teams and "willing" teams to victory. He played with Stackhouse and Rip Hamilton in Washington, not all-time greats but not exactly scrubs either. The Wizards sucked with or without MJ.

[SouBeachTalents]

The only super elite (i.e. being a 30+ ppg type) scorer in that group was Wilkins. The others were mostly 20-25 ppg types.

MJ's Wizards tenure should only be a minor factor in assessing him. It is relevant only in two contexts: 1) comparing him to someone with superior longevity like KAJ (who was still an all-NBA first teamer and top 5 in MVP voting in his 17th season and a legitimate all-star in his 18th season. MJ played 15 years and played only 17 and 18 games in two of them) 2) assessing some of the myths about him "making" players/teams and "willing" teams to victory. He played with Stackhouse and Rip Hamilton in Washington, not all-time greats but not exactly scrubs either. The Wizards sucked with or without MJ.

Post-baseball Jordan definitely leads the Wizards to the playoffs imo, and while it's certainly commendable that Kareem was still a top player into his late 30's and early 40's, he had a much more formidable team around him. You swap Jordan and Kareem in those scenarios, I'm not as confident in Kareem being as effective late in his career

[Calabis]

Serious question...Has any player ever attempted more shots in a playoff series than MJ while playing with or against him?

I don't know but that Bucks series he only took 7 more shots than Woolridge and Cummings:confusedshrug:

[Roundball_Rock]

Post-baseball Jordan definitely leads the Wizards to the playoffs imo

For sure. MJ circa 1995-1998 would have the Wizards contending in the East. Still, what happened to MJ "making" his teammates? Why couldn't he "make" Stackhouse or Hamilton? What about "leading" his teammates to improve their performances?


while it's certainly commendable that Kareem was still a top player into his late 30's and early 40's, he had a much more formidable team around him. You swap Jordan and Kareem in those scenarios, I'm not as confident in Kareem being as effective late in his career

The team does not really impact individual longevity, other than allowing a player to conserve energy. There is only one player in NBA history who remained at that elite level that late in his career so it was unique to KAJ, not something that is a consequence of spending several years on a top team. KAJ did not have his role as the #1 option reduced until 1987, his 18th season, so while he conserved more energy than he would have expanded on a lousy team it was not a big factor. MJ himself benefited from a stacked team in his later years, especially on the defensive end.

MJ would not be as good as KAJ in his 17th year because MJ did not even make it past year 15. 03' MJ is comparable to 84' KAJ, and that is with KAJ not having the benefits of taking 2-3 years off and KAJ playing 65+ games in every season. KAJ had far more mileage on him at ages 38-40 than MJ did.

[SamuraiSWISH]

Dominique Wilkins, Clyde Drexler, Grant Hill, Penny Hardaway, Mitch Richmond, Gary Payton, Glenn Rice, all played in the "Jordan era".

The reason there's so many more wing scorers today is precisely *because* of Jordan, every kid wants to be a flashy 2/3 player nowadays, no one wants to learn to play in the post even if they're 6'8 or 6'9 if they can help it.

Besides MJ was dropped 20+ a night with bad knees as a 40 year old in the Iverson/Carter/Kobe/T-Mac hey-day, scoring 30+ a night was simply easy for MJ, he had that down to a science.
:applause:

[Marchesk]

The only super elite (i.e. being a 30+ ppg type) scorer in that group was Wilkins. The others were mostly 20-25 ppg typ.

There's not usually more than a couple super elite scorers at any one time in the league. The point was that Jordan played with plenty of guys capable averaging in the 23-27 range, who weren't PGs or Cs.

[Calabis]

For sure. MJ circa 1995-1998 would have the Wizards contending in the East. Still, what happened to MJ "making" his teammates? Why couldn't he "make" Stackhouse or Hamilton? What about "leading" his teammates to improve their performances?



The team does not really impact individual longevity, other than allowing a player to conserve energy. There is only one player in NBA history who remained at that elite level that late in his career so it was unique to KAJ, not something that is a consequence of spending several years on a top team. KAJ did not have his role as the #1 option reduced until 1987, his 18th season, so while he conserved more energy than he would have expanded on a lousy team it was not a big factor. MJ himself benefited from a stacked team in his later years, especially on the defensive end.

MJ would not be as good as KAJ in his 17th year because MJ did not even make it past year 15. 03' MJ is comparable to 84' KAJ, and that is with KAJ not having the benefits of taking 2-3 years off and KAJ playing 65+ games in every season. KAJ had far more mileage on him at ages 38-40 than MJ did.

They did improve their performance

19-63 to 37-45...they were on pace to win 40 games before his knee couldn't put up with his fat ass.

[SamuraiSWISH]

They did improve their performance

19-63 to 37-45...they were on pace to win 40 games before his knee couldn't put up with his fat ass.
Come on, you're arguing with a known Jordan hater / troll.

[Roundball_Rock]

They did improve their performance

19-63 to 37-45...they were on pace to win 40 games before his knee couldn't put up with his fat ass.

With MJ, who was averaging 25/6/5 before he got hurt in 02'. Of course the team's performance will improve when adding a player like that. I meant the other players' individual performances. Did MJ "make" Stackhouse and Hamilton better players? Did he "demand" and "will" the others on the team to raise their games?

[Sarcastic]

other than an aging bird, i see pg's and big men, no true wing scorers like in this era. It was a weak era for scorers


Adrian Dantley, the Master of Efficiency, played in this era.

[ArbitraryWater]

lol very first series of his career :lol

[ILLsmak]

The only super elite (i.e. being a 30+ ppg type) scorer in that group was Wilkins. The others were mostly 20-25 ppg types.

MJ's Wizards tenure should only be a minor factor in assessing him. It is relevant only in two contexts: 1) comparing him to someone with superior longevity like KAJ (who was still an all-NBA first teamer and top 5 in MVP voting in his 17th season and a legitimate all-star in his 18th season. MJ played 15 years and played only 17 and 18 games in two of them) 2) assessing some of the myths about him "making" players/teams and "willing" teams to victory. He played with Stackhouse and Rip Hamilton in Washington, not all-time greats but not exactly scrubs either. The Wizards sucked with or without MJ.

Plenty of great scorers never hit 30...

-Smak

[Calabis]

With MJ, who was averaging 25/6/5 before he got hurt in 02'. Of course the team's performance will improve when adding a player like that. I meant the other players' individual performances. Did MJ "make" Stackhouse and Hamilton better players? Did he "demand" and "will" the others on the team to raise their games?

http://www.johnlocke.org/site-docs/lockerroom/movinggoalpost.gif


Since MJ arrived in Washington, the Wizzies have been 74-90 with him on the court and 36-89 with him off. Thats a old f'n MJ at that

[riseagainst]

Adrian Dantley, the Master of Efficiency, played in this era.

efficient, but not dominant.

[Spurs5Rings2014]

efficient, but not dominant.

:lol

[dreamwarrior]

Dominique Wilkins, Clyde Drexler, Grant Hill, Penny Hardaway, Mitch Richmond, Gary Payton, Glenn Rice, all played in the "Jordan era".

The reason there's so many more wing scorers today is precisely *because* of Jordan, every kid wants to be a flashy 2/3 player nowadays, no one wants to learn to play in the post even if they're 6'8 or 6'9 if they can help it.

Besides MJ was dropped 20+ a night with bad knees as a 40 year old in the Iverson/Carter/Kobe/T-Mac hey-day, scoring 30+ a night was simply easy for MJ, he had that down to a science.
Pretty much. Wings aren't even supposed to be so versatile. The traditional wing is a Ray Allen/Reggie Miller type. They score a lot just because they're open the most. But the game's main scorers in the past were centers since they were closest to the basket.