AI vs CP3

[ZaaaaaH]

Two midgets who can dominate the game.

Who you got?

:confusedshrug:

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Paul for me.

[1987_Lakers]

I'd rather have CP3 on my team.

[fpliii]

You're not going to win a championship with a guy <6 feet as your best player anyway. :confusedshrug:

[ZaaaaaH]

You're not going to win a championship with a guy <6 feet as your best player anyway. :confusedshrug:

Isiah Thomas says HI ~ !!!!


Anyway that was no my question but AI came DAM close.

[navy]

You're not going to win a championship with a guy <6 feet as your best player anyway. :confusedshrug:
Are you sure? Put AI or Chris Paul on those Pistons teams (04, lost in 7 in 05 finals) instead of Billups you think they wouldnt be the best player nor win the title?

[RoundMoundOfReb]

You're not going to win a championship with a guy <6 feet as your best player anyway. :confusedshrug:
Of course you can. Put '08 Chris Paul on the current Spurs team and he would be the best player and they could still very well win a title.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Are you sure? Put AI or Chris Paul on those Pistons teams (04, lost in 7 in 05 finals) instead of Billups you think they wouldnt be the best player nor win the title?
He's gonna say Ben Wallace would be better. And I sort of agree.

[fpliii]

Isiah Thomas says HI ~ !!!!


Anyway that was no my question but AI came DAM close.
Eh, those teams won on the backbone of their ridiculous defenses. Even if we're saying Isiah was the best player, I don't think we can say it's not close. I'd go with Dumars personally (didn't start watching until 92-93 though, so I'm just basing this on watching their playoff run years after the fact).

Not sure if AI came close, or else we can say Kidd came close, Cavs LeBron came close, etc. The East was shit. That being said, what Iverson did was incredible, but I don't think you can win with that sort of team model.

[fpliii]

Are you sure? Put AI or Chris Paul on those Pistons teams (04, lost in 7 in 05 finals) instead of Billups you think they wouldnt be the best player nor win the title?

Of course you can. Put '08 Chris Paul on the current Spurs team and he would be the best player and they could still very well win a title.
I mean, the thing is though, even if he's your best player, those squads would be stacked anyway. I guess best player is too vague though, so maybe I misspoke.

[navy]

He's gonna say Ben Wallace would be better. And I sort of agree.
He wouldnt be better than Chirs Paul. AI more debatable, but maybe not. Not discrediting Big Ben Wallace, but that team was more than just a defensive anchor.

[bdreason]

AI was a better slasher/scorer and had a higher motor. CP3 is pretty much better at everything else.

Gimme CP3.

[ZaaaaaH]

Eh, those teams won on the backbone of their ridiculous defenses. Even if we're saying Isiah was the best player, I don't think we can say it's not close. I'd go with Dumars personally (didn't start watching until 92-93 though, so I'm just basing this on watching their playoff run years after the fact).

Not sure if AI came close, or else we can say Kidd came close, Cavs LeBron came close, etc. The East was shit. That being said, what Iverson did was incredible, but I don't think you can win with that sort of team model.


I can agree the Pistons won with very aggressive defensive playing style but no doubt Isiah was the leader and Dumars being the CoCap but Dumars is close to a midget as well especially for a SG position.

Getting to the Finals is Close. He was 3 games away from Winning a Chip. JKidd was close also. LeBron end up winning two so he dont count. If Ai had some better 3pt Shooters and a good Solid back up center who could slow Shaq down IMO they would of had a good chance. I cant speak for CP3 but I seen him alone take over games in the playoffs and spoon feeding his bigs with his playmaking.

[navy]

I mean, the thing is though, even if he's your best player, those squads would be stacked anyway. I guess best player is too vague though, so maybe I misspoke.
Not anymore stacked than most championship teams. :oldlol:

I think the thing about point guards is that they are more reliant upon teammates than other players. Cant anchor a defense and are usually too small to defend other teams best players. If your point guard is your best player the people he is passing too are lesser players and the point guard is the most inefficient scoring position. (I should fact check that, but I mean by movesets)

[JohnFreeman]

Depends on the team, but I was always an AI fan

[ZaaaaaH]

I love CP3 especially during pre injury but AI took over games like no other midgets can.

[fpliii]

I can agree the Pistons won with very aggressive defensive playing style but no doubt Isiah was the leader and Dumars being the CoCap but Dumars is close to a midget as well especially for a SG position.

Getting to the Finals is Close. He was 3 games away from Winning a Chip. JKidd was close also. LeBron end up winning two so he dont count. If Ai had some better 3pt Shooters and a good Solid back up center who could slow Shaq down IMO they would of had a good chance. I cant speak for CP3 but I seen him alone take over games in the playoffs and spoon feeding his bigs with his playmaking.
I'm not sure what Dumars' height without shoes is, but he has to have a few inches on those guys. I think he had a monster wingspan too.

Agreed he was close, maybe he'd be luckier in another season.

Not anymore stacked than most championship teams. :oldlol:

I think the thing about point guards is that they are more reliant upon teammates than other players. Cant anchor a defense and are usually too small to defend other teams best players. If your point guard is your best player the people he is passing too are lesser players and the point guard is the most inefficient scoring position. (I should fact check that, but I mean by movesets)
I mean, not too many championship teams are stacked if we're subbing out the best player. Just since I started watching...

93 no
94 no
95 no
96 yes
97 yes
98 no
99 no
00 no
01 no
02 no
03 no
04 yes
05 yes
06 no
07 yes
08 yes
09 no
10 no
11 no
12 yes
13 no
14 yes

So that's what, 8/22 teams that are still incredible without their best guy? :confusedshrug:

[navy]

I'm not sure what Dumars' height without shoes is, but he has to have a few inches on those guys. I think he had a monster wingspan too.

Agreed he was close, maybe he'd be luckier in another season.

I mean, not too many championship teams are stacked if we're subbing out the best player. Just since I started watching...

93 no
94 no
95 no
96 yes
97 yes
98 no
99 no
00 no
01 no
02 no
03 no
04 yes
05 yes
06 no
07 yes
08 yes
09 no
10 no
11 no
12 yes
13 no
14 yes

So that's what, 8/22 teams that are still incredible without their best guy? :confusedshrug:

If you sub out their best player and replace it with another great player and then compare it to the great players original team. If that makes sense. :confusedshrug:

[fpliii]

If you sub out their best player and replace it with another great player and then compare it to the great players original team. If that makes sense. :confusedshrug:
Yeah. Assuming we agree about these lists, can you replace any of these guys:

98 Jordan
99 Duncan
00 Shaq
01 Shaq
02 Shaq
03 Duncan
06 Wade
09 Kobe
10 Kobe
11 Dirk
13 LeBron

with any player 6 feet or under ever, and win a championship? I'm not sure. I do think a CP3 or AI could win on at least some of these:

96 Jordan
97 Jordan
04 Wallace
05 Duncan
07 Duncan
08 Garnett
12 LeBron

though maybe not all of them, because of positional differences.

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

CP3 easily
all AI had on him was slashing and speed. im a big fan of both

CP3 is way better at running pickandroll, passing, shooting, defending etc

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Yeah. Assuming we agree about these lists, can you replace any of these guys:

98 Jordan
99 Duncan
00 Shaq
01 Shaq
02 Shaq
03 Duncan
06 Wade
09 Kobe
10 Kobe
11 Dirk
13 LeBron

with any player 6 feet or under ever, and win a championship? I'm not sure. I do think a CP3 or AI could win on at least some of these:

96 Jordan
97 Jordan
04 Wallace
05 Duncan
07 Duncan
08 Garnett
12 LeBron

though maybe not all of them, because of positional differences.

I'd give CP3 0 out of those 7. Positional difference to overwhelming.
But if you replaced Tony Parker in 2013 with a prime cp3? I'm taking the Spurs

[navy]

Yeah. Assuming we agree about these lists, can you replace any of these guys:

98 Jordan
99 Duncan
00 Shaq
01 Shaq
02 Shaq
03 Duncan
06 Wade
09 Kobe
10 Kobe
11 Dirk
13 LeBron

with any player 6 feet or under ever, and win a championship? I'm not sure. I do think a CP3 or AI could win on at least some of these:

96 Jordan
97 Jordan
04 Wallace
05 Duncan
07 Duncan
08 Garnett
12 LeBron

though maybe not all of them, because of positional differences.
Probably none because of positional differences. :oldlol: '

You would have to replace the point guard with a player in question and then somehow supplement the player removed with a lesser player but keep the overall talent level the same.

BUt your post still highlighted my stacked comment. You listed several players on there who werent the fmvps of those championship rosters:
Wallace, Garnett, Duncan, and in my opinion if you inserted AI or CP3 or Isiah on these teams they could conceivably be considered "best player" even if we still debated as to whether the big was more impactful than they were.

[fpliii]

Probably none because of positional differences. :oldlol: '

You would have to replace the point guard with a player in question and then somehow supplement the player removed with a lesser player but keep the overall talent level the same.

BUt your post still highlighted my stacked comment. You listed several players on there who werent the fmvps of those championship rosters:
Wallace, Garnett, Duncan, and in my opinion if you inserted AI or CP3 or Isiah on these teams they could conceivably be considered "best player" even if we still debated as to whether the big was more impactful than they were.
I agree, but I think that's more of a flaw with FMVP voting.

[Milbuck]

If I'm starting a team off, I'm definitely going with CP3. And as for the better overall player, I'm going with 2007-2009 CP3 over AI, and quite comfortably as well. The thing is CP3 peaked early because of the injury, so if we're comparing current CP3 to 29 year old AI...it gets tougher. Honestly, age for age AI could probably take this Clipper team to a chip. Slide him to PG. You lose playmaking, but gain a lot of scoring. Iverson at CP3's age put up 31/4/8/2 on 53% TS.

AI/Collison
Redick/Crawford
Barnes/Granger
Blake/Davis
DJ/Hollins

That is so much more help than Iverson had in his Sixer days, especially having shooters everywhere and Blake/DJ instead of old Deke. Absolutely stacked team. Coached by Doc, who would do about as good a job as you possibly could in keeping AI in check, I think they'd win it all.

[ZaaaaaH]

Yeah. Assuming we agree about these lists, can you replace any of these guys:

98 Jordan
99 Duncan
00 Shaq
01 Shaq
02 Shaq
03 Duncan
06 Wade
09 Kobe
10 Kobe
11 Dirk
13 LeBron

with any player 6 feet or under ever, and win a championship? I'm not sure. I do think a CP3 or AI could win on at least some of these:

96 Jordan
97 Jordan
04 Wallace
05 Duncan
07 Duncan
08 Garnett
12 LeBron

though maybe not all of them, because of positional differences.

06

Ai can win for sure the way they were built and I would say CP3 can as well

[ZaaaaaH]

If I'm starting a team off, I'm definitely going with CP3. And as for the better overall player, I'm going with 2007-2009 CP3 over AI, and quite comfortably as well. The thing is CP3 peaked early because of the injury, so if we're comparing current CP3 to 29 year old AI...it gets tougher. Honestly, age for age AI could probably take this Clipper team to a chip. Slide him to PG. You lose playmaking, but gain a lot of scoring. Iverson at CP3's age put up 31/4/8/2 on 53% TS.

AI/Collison
Redick/Crawford
Barnes/Granger
Blake/Davis
DJ/Hollins

That is so much more help than Iverson had in his Sixer days, especially having shooters everywhere and Blake/DJ instead of old Deke. Absolutely stacked team. Coached by Doc, who would do about as good a job as you possibly could in keeping AI in check, I think they'd win it all.


Dam I can really see AI winning with that squad

[RoundMoundOfReb]

06

Ai can win for sure the way they were built and I would say CP3 can as well
lol no. Wade was insane. Up there with MJ and Shaq finals performances.

[navy]

lol no. Wade was insane. Up there with MJ and Shaq finals performances.
Wade was just as good in the Eastern playoffs as well. Definitely not replacing him.

[ZaaaaaH]

lol no. Wade was insane. Up there with MJ and Shaq finals performances.


06 Wade was just as good as MJ :lol

Come on man ~ Lets be serious here.

06 Wade gets way too overrated here in this Forum

That TEAM was Shaq and Alonzo with a lot of good vets. Wade was good or even excellent but Jordan esq? COME ON BRA ~

[navy]

If I'm starting a team off, I'm definitely going with CP3. And as for the better overall player, I'm going with 2007-2009 CP3 over AI, and quite comfortably as well. The thing is CP3 peaked early because of the injury, so if we're comparing current CP3 to 29 year old AI...it gets tougher. Honestly, age for age AI could probably take this Clipper team to a chip. Slide him to PG. You lose playmaking, but gain a lot of scoring. Iverson at CP3's age put up 31/4/8/2 on 53% TS.

AI/Collison
Redick/Crawford
Barnes/Granger
Blake/Davis
DJ/Hollins

That is so much more help than Iverson had in his Sixer days, especially having shooters everywhere and Blake/DJ instead of old Deke. Absolutely stacked team. Coached by Doc, who would do about as good a job as you possibly could in keeping AI in check, I think they'd win it all.

I dont think so. CP3 made that team and it was obvious whenever he took to the bench in the playoffs. The problem with replacing players on there teams is that you have to make up for everything that they do, a hard feat that is only conceivable on stacked rosters.

Although, Iverson and Jamal Crawford on the same team would be hilariously redundant and possible cringe inducing while also being extremely fun to watch.

[GimmeThat]

AI is the king of midgets, therefore, he'd probably beat CP3 in a showdown.

as for going against none-midgets.

give me the midget who can see the floor with X-Ray visions ala J-Kidd

[RoundMoundOfReb]

06 Wade was just as good as MJ :lol

Come on man ~ Lets be serious here.

06 Wade gets way too overrated here in this Forum

That TEAM was Shaq and Alonzo with a lot of good vets. Wade was good or even excellent but Jordan esq? COME ON BRA ~
His performance was up there with those guys.

And Shaq wasn't prime anymore and Alonzo was nothing more than a role player.

[ZaaaaaH]

AI is the king of midgets, therefore, he'd probably beat CP3 in a showdown.

as for going against none-midgets.

give me the midget who can see the floor with X-Ray visions ala J-Kidd


J Kidd is 6-4

[ZaaaaaH]

His performance was up there with those guys.

And Shaq wasn't prime anymore and Alonzo was nothing more than a role player.


Shaq wasnt in his prime you are right but he was still being Doubled teamed. Alonzo might of been a shell of himself but him and Shaq was clogging the lane and playing amazing defense. A lot of D-Wades points came from defense to offense transition. Wade never dominated to a point where he was the focal point and getting double or triple team.

[navy]

06 Wade was just as good as MJ :lol

Come on man ~ Lets be serious here.

06 Wade gets way too overrated here in this Forum

That TEAM was Shaq and Alonzo with a lot of good vets. Wade was good or even excellent but Jordan esq? COME ON BRA ~
PTS TRB AST STL BLK
24.7 4.5 7.2 2.0 1.3
27.6 6.0 6.6 2.4 0.6
26.7 5.2 5.5 1.8 1.5
34.7 7.8 3.8 2.7 1.0

That production is not easily replaceable. Certainly not by CP3 and AI...

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Shaq wasnt in his prime you are right but he was still being Doubled teamed. Alonzo might of been a shell of himself but him and Shaq was clogging the lane and playing amazing defense. A lot of D-Wades points came from defense to offense transition. Wade never dominated to a point where he was the focal point and getting double or triple team.


Dude put up 39/9/4/3/1 on 50% in the last 4 games after they went down 2-0. He put them on his back. He was definitely more impactful than Shaq and better than AI has ever been.

[ZaaaaaH]

PTS TRB AST STL BLK
24.7 4.5 7.2 2.0 1.3
27.6 6.0 6.6 2.4 0.6
26.7 5.2 5.5 1.8 1.5
34.7 7.8 3.8 2.7 1.0

That production is not easily replaceable. Certainly not by CP3 and AI...


AI would of avrg 35/3/8/3/0 against that Mavs team

CP3 would of avg 28/4/11/3/0

both good enough to win.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

AI would of avrg 35/3/8/3/0 against that Mavs team

CP3 would of avg 28/4/11/3/0

both good enough to win.
:biggums:

[ZaaaaaH]

Dude put up 39/9/4/3/1 on 50% in the last 4 games after they went down 2-0. He put them on his back. He was definitely more impactful than Shaq and better than AI has ever been.

Bro ~ I never said Shaq made more impact. That team was more Defense balance team going against a weak defensive team. My point is No one in that Mavs team could guard Shaq 1vs1. D-Wade was barely being double teamed that series but no doubt he made the most impact.

[SexSymbol]

Easily AI.
Legit NBA legend

[GimmeThat]

J Kidd is 6-4

and the guy knew where his teammates were without nessecarily seeing them with his own eyes.

your point being?

[ZaaaaaH]

Easily AI.
Legit NBA legend


More people will pick CP3 "NOW" but 20-30 years from now More people will remember AI.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

and the guy knew where his teammates were without nessecarily seeing them with his own eyes.

your point being?
That he isn't a midget

[ZaaaaaH]

and the guy knew where his teammates were without nessecarily seeing them with his own eyes.

your point being?


Point being Kidd is not part of the thread and he aint a midget.

Give me Oscar over Kidd

Oscar being same height

[russwest0]

AI and it's not even close.

[navy]

More people will pick CP3 "NOW" but 20-30 years from now More people will remember AI.
That honestly doesnt mean shit. Iverson has hardly played at a much level higher than CP3 in his seasons of play and that's all that matters.

[GimmeThat]

That he isn't a midget

but Kobe shooting the basketball like Larry Bird doesn't make him 6'10

[ZaaaaaH]

That honestly doesnt mean shit. Iverson has hardly played at a much level higher than CP3 in his seasons of play and that's all that matters.


When did I say that matters? but obviously you agree :cheers:

[navy]

When did I say that matters? but obviously you agree :cheers:
Meh, depends on how CP3s final years play out. You never know what people remember.

No diss to AI but his "legend" includes fashion statements, not practicing, and a couple Fvck you to sterns as opposed to just basketball. :confusedshrug:

[ZaaaaaH]

Truth about Wade

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1209046-miami-heat-10-reasons-dwyane-wade-is-overrated

[ZaaaaaH]

Meh, depends on how CP3s final years play out. You never know what people remember.

No diss to AI but his "legend" includes fashion statements, not practicing, and a couple Fvck you to sterns as opposed to just basketball. :confusedshrug:


Like I said on my post before I love CP3 his a Ideal PG 6ft and Under for anyone try to resemble and play like and he is also my second Fav PG behind Penny.

But at the End of the day like you said if he dosent win or get to the Finals in a Dominant Fashion AI will over shadow his career not just because AI was a thug talking about Practice and Stern being gone its because he was that DAM good.

[LA Lakers]

Kind of hard to compare since Iverson played off the ball, and was a 2 guard whereas Chris Paul is a pure point guard through and through. Also, Iverson was a much higher volume shooter. Both had excellent ball handling ability. Iverson was more fun to watch. He'd break an entire teams ankles. To be fare he never had a team like Chris Paul has with the Clippers right now. But that would probably be to the teams detriment. Whats the use in playing alongside a shooter like Redick if hes just gonna stand around and watch you play iso? Or would Blake Griffin really want to be a garbage man? Offensive putbacks would be Blakes game on an Allen Iverson led Clippers team. DJ just having you curl off of a hard screen? So in that sense, Chris Paul would in my eyes, be the better teammate. As far as who was "better," again all opinion, but Iverson was so fun to watch. Only guy I ever saw able to D up Iverson man to man was Tyron Lue.

[navy]

Tyron Lue.
:coleman:

[ZaaaaaH]

PTS TRB AST STL BLK
24.7 4.5 7.2 2.0 1.3
27.6 6.0 6.6 2.4 0.6
26.7 5.2 5.5 1.8 1.5
34.7 7.8 3.8 2.7 1.0

That production is not easily replaceable. Certainly not by CP3 and AI...

Kobe avg

43/5.7/2/3.3/.3 Against the Mavs and won 2-1


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uEyo2P5dgec

Wade played well even Great but again its well overrated like some of the people think.

AI might even avg 40 himself against that weak perimeter no transition defensive team

[aj1987]

Truth about Wade

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1209046-miami-heat-10-reasons-dwyane-wade-is-overrated
BR is about as retarded as you are.

[ZaaaaaH]

BR is about as retarded as you are. Why are you even bringing up Wade in a AI vs CP3 thread? You LeBron turds are insecure as ****.


More like you are insecure and retarded. If you read over the forum, You can obviously see "I" didnt bring up Wade in this tread.

[aj1987]

More like you are insecure and retarded. If you read over the forum, You can obviously see "I" didnt bring up Wade in this tread.
The only reason why Wade was brought was when fpliii was trying to prove his point. You made a topic out of it. Also, you're the idiot who thinks AI and his chucking would help the Heat win in '06.

LeBron stans...:facepalm

EDIT: Oh, and posting a BR link? :facepalm

[ZaaaaaH]

The only reason why Wade was brought was when fpliii was trying to prove his point. You made a topic out of it. Also, you're the idiot who thinks AI and his chucking would help the Heat win in '06.

LeBron stans...:facepalm


LOL :bowdown:

You know Basketball :applause:

Here is your boy Wade
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uEyo2P5dgec

Watch that and Learn some more from your boy

[ZaaaaaH]

The only reason why Wade was brought was when fpliii was trying to prove his point. You made a topic out of it. Also, you're the idiot who thinks AI and his chucking would help the Heat win in '06.

LeBron stans...:facepalm

EDIT: Oh, and posting a BR link? :facepalm


BR knows much more then you :lol

[MUGEN]

AI all the way..

big fan

[aj1987]

LOL :bowdown:

You know Basketball :applause:

Here is your boy Wade
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uEyo2P5dgec

Watch that and Learn some more from your boy
Your point? AI and CP3 are winning shit with that team. Oh, and before you say that Shaq was the reason they won. Can you please remind me of that happened in the '05 ECF when Wade went down? Or the first two games of the Finals before Wade took over (Game 2)?


BR knows much more then you
Dude, don't use BR as your source. People are gonna laugh at you.

[ZaaaaaH]

Your point? AI and CP3 are winning shit with that team. Oh, and before you say that Shaq was the reason they won. Can you please remind me of that happened in the '05 ECF when Wade went down? Or the first two games of the Finals before Wade took over (Game 2)?


Dude, don't use BR as your source. People are gonna laugh at you.


Bro Im just trying to help you :confusedshrug:

BR is not my "source" Im just giving you another perspective from someone else opinion.

My main source is watching the game like a real NBA fan.

[aj1987]

Bro Im just trying to help you :confusedshrug:

BR is not my "source" Im just giving you another perspective from someone else opinion.

My main source is watching the game like a real NBA fan.
The link you posted basically used advanced stats like WS and PPP, which are terrible ways to judge a players worth. It's a fact that Wade won Miami its first ring within 3 years of being drafted. Damn near won them another one in '11 as well. If you actually watch the games, you would know that neither AI nor CP3 could've done what Wade did with the '06 squad. You wouldn't call him overrated either. Then again, you probably started watching him play after Miami won it's first ring. He was damn good in the '13 RS, but nowhere near his prime level.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

but Kobe shooting the basketball like Larry Bird doesn't make him 6'10
OH! So your saying CP3 as vision like Kidd? Ok.. I misinterpreted. My bad

[joeyjoejoe]

Cp3 comfortably if we're talking peak

[ZaaaaaH]

The link you posted basically used advanced stats like WS and PPP, which are terrible ways to judge a players worth. It's a fact that Wade won Miami its first ring within 3 years of being drafted. Damn near won them another one in '11 as well. If you actually watch the games, you would know that neither AI nor CP3 could've done what Wade did with the '06 squad. You wouldn't call him overrated either. Then again, you probably started watching him play after Miami won it's first ring. He was damn good in the '13 RS, but nowhere near his prime level.


I watched Wade from his Collage days :no:

Im one out of the few who likes to use "Stats" to measure impact. At first I was kind of trolling since a lot of the young stans who never really watch the game and loves these bs mathematical stats.

I can say I watch less then 30 games of Wade during the regular season but when It comes to playoffs I dont miss a game. Wade was great but the way some people trying to hype him up to be Jordan Esq is mind blowing.

[aj1987]

I watched Wade from his Collage days :no:

Im one out of the few who likes to use "Stats" to measure impact. At first I was kind of trolling since a lot of the young stans who never really watch the game and loves these bs mathematical stats.

I can say I watch less then 30 games of Wade during the regular season but when It comes to playoffs I dont miss a game. Wade was great but the way some people trying to hype him up to be Jordan Esq is mind blowing.
They only use that phrase for his '06 Finals performance.

Raw stats? Sure. Most of the advance stats are total BS though. PER for instance. I used it a couple of times, but it's a worthless stat. +/- is another one which is a BS stat.

[masonanddixon]

Being an Iverson fan is a very strong indicator that a person knows nothing about basketball.

[knicksman]

Like I said on my post before I love CP3 his a Ideal PG 6ft and Under for anyone try to resemble and play like and he is also my second Fav PG behind Penny.

But at the End of the day like you said if he dosent win or get to the Finals in a Dominant Fashion AI will over shadow his career not just because AI was a thug talking about Practice and Stern being gone its because he was that DAM good.

cp3 can make it to the finals in the leastern conference. Even poor mans cp3 in kidd made it twice and IMO kidd is more impactful than AI.

[knicksman]

Considering cp3 made almost every team he had to be contenders while AI only 1 50+ win team throughout his career. Considering that it was in the leastern conference where teams that made it to the finals are just first rounders in the west. So its really not close. AI never made a team contenders.

[aj1987]

cp3 can make it to the finals in the leastern conference. Even poor mans cp3 in kidd made it twice and IMO kidd is more impactful than AI.
:facepalm

Please kill yourself.

[GimmeThat]

OH! So your saying CP3 as vision like Kidd? Ok.. I misinterpreted. My bad

it's okay, I don't know how they do it either.

[GimmeThat]

Being an Iverson fan is a very strong indicator that a person knows nothing about basketball.


true.


people still visit Rucker Park and pay their respect to the legends there?

[Ne 1]

AI has never come close to the level that peak Paul was on. People love to point to the Sixers success in 2001 to somehow justify Iverson's career, but the East was as weak as its ever been that year. You had to beat the Pacers (41 win team), Raptors (47 wins) and Bucks (52 wins) to get to the Finals, and even so Mutombo was the MVP of the ECFs vs Milwaukee. Once they faced a real team from the superior Western Conference, they lost in a backdoor sweep. The Eastern Conference only had two other teams that won 50 games. Whatever modest success the Sixers enjoyed during the Iverson era was mainly due to Larry Brown's mastermind defensive strategy which made them a top 5 defensive team for a good 3-4 years and the #1 ranked defensive team after they acquired Mutombo in February. There is reason that it all fell apart after Brown left.

[ArbitraryWater]

CP3 easily...

Ai doesn't offer much tbh besides inefficient chucking... the value of rarely taking over is there, thats why top 50, but not > cp.

[jayfan]

http://dimemag.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/Isiah-Thomas.jpg

[FatComputerNerd]

Depends on the team.

Give me Cp3 if building a traditional team.

Give me AI if surrounding him with shooters and role-players.


That said, combine their skill-sets, add a couple inches, and you've got Kyrie :banana:

[Bigsmoke]

Cp3

[dreamwarrior]

AI was an ISO PG. He's kinda in a league of his own. If Randy Livingston hadn't gotten injured he could've been as good as CP3

[Mass Debator]

Isiah Thomas

[Shih508]

If AI can single handily beated 01' Lakers for a game with hand checking, there's no way AI can't beat that 06' Mav squad for 4 games with no hand checking rule.

AI would average 45+ with 20 ft a game against Mav.

Dun forget AI's 2nd best scoring leader in playoff only behind MJ. Top 3 most 50 points scored in PO while only played less than 100 games.

Say what u want about AI as a volume scorer. Even given chance to players like Lebron, Kobe or Durant, they still can't match up AI scoring ability in the playoff! AI is a better scorer than all of those in playoff if u actually watched AI played back in his priime.

[Shih508]

AI plays his whole career in today's rule. He will be a much efficient scorer and prolly will have even higher ppg avg.

Stop underrating AI's performance because u see some sub 40% fg season on his resume.

And alot of AI's misses were actually like ally-oop to bigs cuz the defense collided on AI and big men could put it back without any defender around.

[Just2McFly]

are people f*cking dumb, Paul is a great player but few have been on Iverson's level... period

[Artillery]

I would take CP without question. Even though I never liked AI and always considered him a cancer, he would probably be even better in the modern NBA. Rule changes in 2006 were extremely beneficial to guards like Iverson but he was too old to really capitalize on them at that poijt. Even then, he posted his most efficient seasons after 2005. He'd probably be similar to Westbrook.

[Ai2death]

I'm going to go with the one who actually made it to the Grand Final

Iverson is one of the most underrated & disrespected players on this board.

[LA Lakers]

I still get the feeling alot of people have never watched Allen Iverson play. Paul is a pure point guard whereas Iverson was a 2guard, mostly played off ball and who shot very high volume. To me, no question Paul is the better all around basketball player. But Iverson will always be more fun to watch than Cp3 can ever hope to be. He could break an entire teams ankles. Had that mentality that he was gonna shoot 40 shots even if he only made 5 or 6 of em haha. Only guy I ever saw D up Iverson for stretches was Tyron Lue. Don't think Philly or Denver gave Iverson the team that Chris Paul has in Los Angeles but yeah, this is a strange player comparison. Such different basketball players.

[veilside23]

i dont get it building a team we pick this over this player simply because of what?

Ai had a garbage team and he even got a game over prime shaq...
Cp3 has been blessed with the teams he played for and yet he cant get them to the finals. you also have to factor in that AI's peak is longer than cp3 . even if cp3 is the better passer i would rather put the ball to AI .

[ILLsmak]

are people f*cking dumb, Paul is a great player but few have been on Iverson's level... period

yace. Iverson is a better impact player. Again, we can't tell what AI is like as a player... in terms of deferring to talent... because he never played on a team where he had another player. He had Melo but that was a little off. Plus, they weren't bad.

Iverson along with a legit big would be deadly. If you take all of the teams in the NBA, take away their best player and give them Iverson... they would probably be better, assuming you didn't take away an essential 7 footer, like TD for instance.

CP3 is a great player, but I think Iverson can ball with top ten greatest ever players and get wins with a good team around him. I don't know if CP3 could.

CP3 has been on some good 'teams.' AI really hasn't. And anyone who wants to blame AI for his teams not having the proper tools... well it's whatever.

-Smak

[ZaaaaaH]

cp3 can make it to the finals in the leastern conference. Even poor mans cp3 in kidd made it twice and IMO kidd is more impactful than AI.


But Poor man CP3 is more impactful then Prime Kidd? :facepalm

[zoom17]

AI

[ZaaaaaH]

yace. Iverson is a better impact player. Again, we can't tell what AI is like as a player... in terms of deferring to talent... because he never played on a team where he had another player. He had Melo but that was a little off. Plus, they weren't bad.

Iverson along with a legit big would be deadly. If you take all of the teams in the NBA, take away their best player and give them Iverson... they would probably be better, assuming you didn't take away an essential 7 footer, like TD for instance.

CP3 is a great player, but I think Iverson can ball with top ten greatest ever players and get wins with a good team around him. I don't know if CP3 could.

CP3 has been on some good 'teams.' AI really hasn't. And anyone who wants to blame AI for his teams not having the proper tools... well it's whatever.

-Smak


I can agree Iverson is more of an impactful player due to AI being a much aggressive scorer.

One thing CP3 can def hang with the Top 10 boys, CP3 is not just great his ****en GREAT.

-Smak

[knicksman]

another example of all around players getting overrated. All around players are the most selfish who just cares about stats to win MVPs. Theres a reason why theyre called cancers.

[atljonesbro]

Chris Paul with ease. Better player. Anyone who picks Iverson is picking him purely off of aesthetics of their game.

[TheMarkMadsen]

AI.

Did more with less

More impactful, isn't afraid of big moments, isn't a flopping bitch.

Does whatever it takes to win

Basically the anti Cp3

[Ne 1]

Chauncey Billups had roughly the same cast that AI had in Denver and the team immediately improved. Just like the Sixers improved immediately after the Andre Miller trade. It's really not a coincidence, just like it's not a coincidence that the his Sixers team went to hell after Larry Brown left for Detriot. I really liked AI during his prime too, he was an amazing scorer, but the fact of the matter is that he was very diffucult to build around, I'll take Chris Paul easily. Also, I'm
sorry but Iverson did not "do whatever it takes to win." Sure he was fearless on the court and I don't doubt that he gave it his all during games, but he was truly selfish to the core. He refused his coaches orders and ruined teams chemistry. He refused a smaller starting role with the Nuggets after Geroge Karl decided he wanted to go in a different direction from the Melo+AI expermient so they traded him to Detroit, with the Pistons he refused to accept the 6th man role so they traded him to Memphis and he decided he just couldn't stand coming off of the bench for the Grizzles so he quit on Memphis, then he whined during interviews and said all he wanted to do is play baksetball and would accept any role on any team in the league... ended up being signed by the Sixers after he retired because Ed Snider felt sorry for his teams former superstar and also because Lou Williams got injured and then he quit again on the Sixers, he waited all summer wondering why nobody would sign him like a clueless dimwit, went to Europe and wasn't even a top player over there.

[SHAQisGOAT]

If I got/could build a team around AI (what I'd probably do here), a team that really fits him, then him, but still close.

If I don't know anything about the team, let's say, I'm going with CP3.

[joeyjoejoe]

Those saying paul had more talented teams in their primes are right but iverson played in a much less talented division, also Iverson willed his team to a win vs shaq/Kobe well Paul willed his team to cpl wins vs lakers in 2011 after west went down with injury, lakers had kobe pau odom metta bynum, in those two wins cp had 33 7 14 4 & 27 13 15 2 both on over %50fg

[ZaaaaaH]

Those saying paul had more talented teams in their primes are right but iverson played in a much less talented division, also Iverson willed his team to a win vs shaq/Kobe well Paul willed his team to cpl wins vs lakers in 2011 after west went down with injury, lakers had kobe pau odom metta bynum, in those two wins cp had 33 7 14 4 & 27 13 15 2 both on over %50fg


I do agree, CP did ball up against the Champs

[houston]

both overrated but cp3

[GimmeThat]

Chauncey Billups had roughly the same cast that AI had in Denver and the team immediately improved. Just like the Sixers improved immediately after the Andre Miller trade. It's really not a coincidence, just like it's not a coincidence that the his Sixers team went to hell after Larry Brown left for Detriot. I really liked AI during his prime too, he was an amazing scorer, but the fact of the matter is that he was very diffucult to build around, I'll take Chris Paul easily. Also, I'm
sorry but Iverson did not "do whatever it takes to win." Sure he was fearless on the court and I don't doubt that he gave it his all during games, but he was truly selfish to the core. He refused his coaches orders and ruined teams chemistry. He refused a smaller starting role with the Nuggets after Geroge Karl decided he wanted to go in a different direction from the Melo+AI expermient so they traded him to Detroit, with the Pistons he refused to accept the 6th man role so they traded him to Memphis and he decided he just couldn't stand coming off of the bench for the Grizzles so he quit on Memphis, then he whined during interviews and said all he wanted to do is play baksetball and would accept any role on any team in the league... ended up being signed by the Sixers after he retired because Ed Snider felt sorry for his teams former superstar and also because Lou Williams got injured and then he quit again on the Sixers, he waited all summer wondering why nobody would sign him like a clueless dimwit, went to Europe and wasn't even a top player over there.

if you don't think that pairing AI with George Karl is a straight up stupid idea, you're stupid.

Had AI gone to the Joe Johnson Josh Smith era Hawks, what could have/would have happened after they drafted Horford?

[ZaaaaaH]

both overrated but cp3

How are they overrated?

Who is underrated to you?

[Ne 1]

AI was a complete joke in the second half of his career with constant defiance to regulation and order, and he also spit in the face of every great player who ever came off the bench later in their careers. He disrespected the game of basketball and pretty much said fu*ck you to Mike Curry and Lionel Hollins and quit on two different teams just because he wasn't getting his 30 shots a game, that is an absolute joke. Don't get me wrong, he had great skills, was a unique talent and a top tier player during the early-mid 00s, but he fell off entirely because of his own stupidity. He could have very well been a good backup for a contender and possibly even could still even at his current age, but his selfishness cost him any chance at that. Don't get me wrong, he was a unique talent, one of the best scorers we have seen, but he's pretty much just living off that 2001 season. I mean outside of that one year he has never been past the 2nd round of the playoffs in his entire career and he led his team to 50+ wins once in his whole career (2001) Not to mention the East was a vastly inferior conference compared to the West, which is why he even got to the Finals.

And although he had a lot of heart and usually gave it his all on the court let's not forget he was often criticized for being selfish, lazy and not being able to get along with his coaches etc. I can't figure out why anyone would take him over Chris Paul.

[ILLsmak]

AI was a complete joke in the second half of his career with constant defiance to regulation and order, and he also spit in the face of every great player who ever came off the bench later in their careers. He disrespected the game of basketball and pretty much said fu*ck you to Mike Curry and Lionel Hollins and quit on two different teams just because he wasn't getting his 30 shots a game, that is an absolute joke.

I dunno if that was it, mayne. He may not have aged gracefully, but he played in Philly from 21-30. After that, it was kind of weird... but the only time it really got out of hand was when he was on Memphis and Detroit.

But he was already 'done' as a prime basketball player.

It has a lot to do with situation. There is no need to side with the system always. Should look at both sides.

-Smak

[GimmeThat]

AI was a complete joke in the second half of his career with constant defiance to regulation and order, and he also spit in the face of every great player who ever came off the bench later in their careers. He disrespected the game of basketball and pretty much said fu*ck you to Mike Curry and Lionel Hollins and quit on two different teams just because he wasn't getting his 30 shots a game, that is an absolute joke. Don't get me wrong, he had great skills, was a unique talent and a top tier player during the early-mid 00s, but he fell off entirely because of his own stupidity. He could have very well been a good backup for a contender and possibly even could still even at his current age, but his selfishness cost him any chance at that. Don't get me wrong, he was a unique talent, one of the best scorers we have seen, but he's pretty much just living off that 2001 season. I mean outside of that one year he has never been past the 2nd round of the playoffs in his entire career and he led his team to 50+ wins once in his whole career (2001) Not to mention the East was a vastly inferior conference compared to the West, which is why he even got to the Finals.

And although he had a lot of heart and usually gave it his all on the court let's not forget he was often criticized for being selfish, lazy and not being able to get along with his coaches etc. I can't figure out why anyone would take him over Chris Paul.


I don't know. because Chris Paul is on track to having a better career than Iverson anyways.

people are insane.

[ZaaaaaH]

I don't know. because Chris Paul is on track to having a better career than Iverson anyways.

people are insane.


Only knock on CP3 is not taking his team Deep with the talent pool he has with this Clippers team. I clearly understand the West is Stacked but even at that Clippers are clearly stacked talent wise compare to other teams. One more thing is AI taking the MVP over Shaq,Kobe,TD,KG during their prime but then again CP3 had some amazing seasons as well.

[ZaaaaaH]

I'll never forget his game 1 explosion...48, 6 assists, 5 rebounds, 5 steals. For a man that was 165 pounds soaking wet, he had the heart of a lion. A truly great alpha leader. He ultimately came up short, which was very expected, but he did something only a true alpha would do...

162 FG attempts in 5 games. He went down like a solider, guns blazing. He damn sure didn't lose for lack of trying. A great warrior.

:applause: :bowdown:


:bowdown:

Im pretty sure CP3 had a big game

Someone post the stats please

[tgan3]

I got to give credit for CP3 for being a great team player/ distributor
but I always believed Iverson to be the better PURE TALENT.

AI never had a great team in the past, and I am literally drooling trying to imagine what he what have done with CP3's STACKED CLIPPERS team!

He is after all a very underrated passer. Explosiveness and takeover/scoring factor wise, AI wins handsdown. He's a mini Jordan.

[Shih508]

Imagine if Philly had traded AI to Minny instead of Denver or played with Prime C-Webb in his early philly days.

I bet AI could've done more with less comparing to CP3's clipper for sure

[joeyjoejoe]

Imagine if Philly had traded AI to Minny instead of Denver or played with Prime C-Webb in his early philly days.

I bet AI could've done more with less comparing to CP3's clipper for sure

na cp could of made finals in the east then too

[bizil]

The Four Horsemen of the small guards to me are Tiny, Isiah, AI, and Paul. All are capable of dominating a game scoring and passing, but in different ways. AI is the most dominant alpha dog of this group, so much so his primary position became shooting guard. I think in the 70's, they could have done the same thing with Tiny. Even though Tiny led the L in points and assists in the same year, I think he saw the game actually more similar to AI. While Isiah and Paul play more similar in my opinion.

To quarterback my team, I would take CP3. But if I'm drafting a team, I think I would take AI first, the most dominant little guard of all time. AI was a great passer and played a lot of PG. Hell if AI was at his peak today, he would likely play mainly PG. Look at all the scoring minded PG's in the L like Rose, Westbrook, Parker, etc. AI would be in that realm but BETTER than those guys. Between AI and Paul, it might literally come down to what your team needs. That's how close this one is. If Jordan or Kobe were 6'0 tall, I think they would be what AI was in his career.

[That_Admiral]

CP3 for sure

[kshutts1]

I know this is being a "boxscore warrior", but all too often I see Chris Paul, the NBA's supposed best PG, having a nearly invisible game. He'll have his monster 19/13/5 steals games, then he'll have a 12/4/1 game. All too often.

AIs ability to dominate, absolutely and completely and consistently, is so impressive and awe inspiring. He never won a title, and neither has Paul, but AI had done so much more with arguably less.

Obviously, the elephant in that room is playoff competition, but one of the better measuring sticks we have is "performance in relation to peers". And AI wins that one for me. Not by a lot, but he does.