Brief thoughts on the Hobby Lobby decision.

[Breezy]

Some thoughts for the Feminist uprising opposing the Court decision.

1. You shouldn't be forced to subsidize violations of your own ethical code.. Even if it's a retarded one.

2. Not being able to force other people to pay for your contraception is not a violation of your rights. They also don't subsidize your food. Are you starving to death?

3. Saying "My birth control is not my bosses business" is wrong. If you're forcing them to pay for it. It is, Literally, Their business.

4. No one is making health decisions for you. Or making you do anything for that matter. It's the exact opposite. You want to force someone else to do something. The English language isn't corrupt enough yet for you to claim force equals freedom.

5. No one wants you sterilized more than I do, but please pay for it yourself. You have been denied nothing except the same right a burglar is denied by a home security system.

[bagelred]

Cool. Now no one has to follow any law due to religious reasons.

My religion tells me I should kill your mom. What? It's my religion! You can't tell me what to do or not do. That's my belief, right? I shouldn't have to follow any law that conflicts with my religion. And my religion says to kill your mom.

Nothing I can do about it...is your mom around?



Don't call the cops. It's sarcasm.

[Cactus-Sack]

Some thoughts for the Feminist uprising opposing the Court decision.

1. You shouldn't be forced to subsidize violations of your own ethical code.. Even if it's a retarded one.

2. Not being able to force other people to pay for your contraception is not a violation of your rights. They also don't subsidize your food. Are you starving to death?

3. Saying "My birth control is not my bosses business" is wrong. If you're forcing them to pay for it. It is, Literally, Their business.

4. No one is making health decisions for you. Or making you do anything for that matter. It's the exact opposite. You want to force someone else to do something. The English language isn't corrupt enough yet for you to claim force equals freedom.

5. No one wants you sterilized more than I do, but please pay for it yourself. You have been denied nothing except the same right a burglar is denied by a home security system.

Well said.


Cool. Now no one has to follow any law due to religious reasons.

My religion tells me I should kill your mom. What? It's my religion! You can't tell me what to do or not do. That's my belief, right? I shouldn't have to follow any law that conflicts with my religion. And my religion says to kill your mom.

Nothing I can do about it...is your mom around?



Don't call the cops. It's sarcasm.

Shut the fvck up and get rid of your spurs avy. Justy because the C's are gonna suck for a decade, doesn't mean you can jump on the Spurs bandwagon without being an equally big piece of sh*t to the Heat bandwagoners.

Don't argue against straw men you intellectually deficient, unfunny, sack o' crap.

[JohnFreeman]

Well said.



Shut the fvck up and get rid of your spurs avy. Justy because the C's are gonna suck for a decade, doesn't mean you can jump on the Spurs bandwagon without being an equally big piece of sh*t to the Heat bandwagoners.

Don't argue against straw men you intellectually deficient, unfunny, sack o' crap.
:lebronamazed:

[Cactus-Sack]

Never easy being a fan of the champs Johnny. Hopefully you'll find out one day. I believe in Boogie.

[JohnFreeman]

Never easy being a fan of the champs Johnny. Hopefully you'll find out one day. I believe in Boogie.
Boogies time is coming

[Jameerthefear]

i really dont care. fembitches are crazy anyways

[Cactus-Sack]

i really dont care. fembitches are crazy anyways

Insightful post. Thanks for sharing your opinion.

[rufuspaul]

The slope is slippery on this one.



[Quote]SUPREME COURT UPHOLDS LITTLE CAESAR

[Cactus-Sack]

The slope is slippery on this one.

Ugh. Onion is so unfunny now. Like waytching Colbert or Stewart. Monotonous drek.

[Derka]

Pretty standard "pick and choose" Christians, that's all the Hobby Lobby folks are. Only, this time they got to pick and choose what laws they follow. Pretty sweet deal when all you have to do is claim adherence to some fairy tales and superstitions.

Love my country <3

[Cactus-Sack]

Pretty standard "pick and choose" Christians, that's all the Hobby Lobby folks are. Only, this time they got to pick and choose what laws they follow. Pretty sweet deal when all you have to do is claim adherence to some fairy tales and superstitions.

Love my country <3

Unjust law in the first place. Lets not act like everyone chooses not to follow certain laws (speeding, jaywalking) they just challenged how lawful (constitutionally) this law was, and the supreme court agreed that it wasn't.

Smh at "they are picking which law to follow" argument... It's an illegal law in the first place! These same people aren't complaining that congress was "picking and choosing" which laws to follow when they passed it...

[boozehound]

OP is pretty crazy if he truly views health care like this. His statements suggest that any employer should have direct and unfettered access to your entire medical record and input on all health decisions because they pay insurance is insane and definitely illegal.

Why in the world is contraception (and reproductive health in general) any different than other health decisions? This will bite the supreme court in the ass down the road.

Why couldnt a closely held company say that hospital treatments are against their religious views and they shouldnt have to cover any health insurance (there are religions like this)?

The fact that people like OP are spewing such vitriol over this shows that this was not a rational argument, but one made (and defended by the religious wingnuts on the court- people who believe in satan and they are doing god's work) from a position of faith activism.

[Jailblazers7]

Can some company refuse to cover vaccinations because they think it will cause autism?

If it is an employers "business" then wouldn't they rather pay for a relatively inexpensive abortion instead of a costly pregnancy? If he/she disagrees because of moral/religious reason then why should they have the right to impose their values simply because they occupy a position of power?

[Cactus-Sack]

Can some company refuse to cover vaccinations because they think it will cause autism?

If it is an employers "business" then wouldn't they rather pay for a relatively inexpensive abortion instead of a costly pregnancy? If he/she disagrees because of moral/religious reason then why should they have the right to impose their values simply because they occupy a position of power?

The constitution protects your ability to freely practice your religion, not your ability to freely believe Jenny McCarthy.

[rufuspaul]

Ugh. Onion is so unfunny now. Like waytching Colbert or Stewart. Monotonous drek.


Not from the Onion, and you're a dick.

[Cactus-Sack]

Not from the Onion, and you're a dick.

So, from a shitty onion rip-off? And you're a fgt who for some reason thinks it's rights to use force in order to make people to buy something they believe is murderous.

NC repubs are the worst... you and Lindsay graham should go on a date... maybe torture some little brown babies and grab an ice-cream...

[Derka]

Unjust law in the first place. Lets not act like everyone chooses not to follow certain laws (speeding, jaywalking) they just challenged how lawful (constitutionally) this law was, and the supreme court agreed that it wasn't.

Smh at "they are picking which law to follow" argument... It's an illegal law in the first place! These same people aren't complaining that congress was "picking and choosing" which laws to follow when they passed it...

Supreme Court upheld the law's constitutionality...but its illegal.

Gotcha.

[rufuspaul]

So, from a shitty onion rip-off? And you're a fgt who for some reason thinks it's rights to use force in order to make people to buy something they believe is murderous.

NC repubs are the worst... you and Lindsay graham should go on a date... maybe torture some little brown babies and grab an ice-cream...


? I think you might be confusing me with someone else. And Lindsay Graham is from South Carolina dumbass.

[Cactus-Sack]

Supreme Court upheld the law's constitutionality...but its illegal.

Gotcha.

Certain parts dumbass. You think health care law two A4 sheets of paper? The ruling was that this was un-constitutional... that's why it went to the sc........


don't know what this is about but employers should be forced to pay for as much of their employees shit as possible. fvk a boss


You don't even have a boss.

[Cactus-Sack]

? I think you might be confusing me with someone else. And Lindsay Graham is from South Carolina dumbass.

Oughtta merge it into one state and then nuke it back to whatever part of hell is sprang from.

I ain't confusing you with anyone. You're the homosexual dentist, yeah?

[~primetime~]

1. You shouldn't be forced to subsidize violations of your own ethical code.. Even if it's a retarded one.

I'm with this...companies here should be allowed to do dictate things like this...EVEN IF IT IS RETARDED, as long as they aren't breaking the law

no one is forcing anyone to work there...if you need birth control coverage go work somewhere else


I remember it was shown a while back that there are still country clubs out there that refuse membership to blacks...even though I feel like that is "retarded" I also feel like they should have the freedom to run their business as they please within the confines of the law.

[TheGreatDeraj]

This is what we get for allowing corporations to be declared as people

This is only the beginning

[boozehound]

I'm with this...companies here should be allowed to do dictate things like this...EVEN IF IT IS RETARDED, as long as they aren't breaking the law

no one is forcing anyone to work there...if you need birth control coverage go work somewhere else


I remember it was shown a while back that there are still country clubs out there that refuse membership to blacks...even though I feel like that is "retarded" I also feel like they should have the freedom to run their business as they please within the confines of the law.
so, what is the difference between this and saying we dont want our health care plan to cover cancer treatment or depression or obesity related disease (because the body is a temple) based on religious rights? Who is the supreme court to evaluate what religious beliefs are worthy of upholding and which are too crazy?

[TheGreatDeraj]

so, what is the difference between this and saying we dont want our health care plan to cover cancer treatment or depression or obesity related disease (because the body is a temple) based on religious rights? Who is the supreme court to evaluate what religious beliefs are worthy of upholding and which are too crazy?

I see where you are going with this, but cancer and obesity is a legitimate health concern. No one would work for a company that did not provide for pretty much the two biggest killers in healthcare.

Birth control is more about convenience than health.

[boozehound]

I see where you are going with this, but cancer and obesity is a legitimate health concern. No one would work for a company that did not provide for pretty much the two biggest killers in healthcare.

Birth control is more about convenience than health.
that is utter bullshit. Reproductive healthcare is a legitimate health concern as well. Flip it the other way. My religious views are that human overpopulation is outside of god's plan and due to people rejecting god's true way. I dont want to have to pay for my employee's pregnancies.


Obesity is also a choice, much like your sexual activity.


Also, it is completely hypocritical that ED drugs are totally fine to be covered, but not birth control? WTF.

[RidonKs]

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2014/04/hobby-lobby-retirement-plan-invested-emergency-contraception-and-abortion-drug-makers

the details of this case are literally insane according to this article

a) they're claiming a whole bunch of different contraceptive methods fall under the category of "abortion" which is flatly wrong

b) by prohibiting their inclusion in health care plans, you're literally just asking for more actual abortions down the line

c) hobby lobby will not pay for their employees use of these contraceptives.... but they will invest millions in the companies that make those very contraceptives

d) hobby lobby has been including those contraceptives in their health plans for years and only decided to drop them two years ago... approximately around the time they began planning this lawsuit


the whole thing barely rises to the level of farce. but of course all of that is irrelevant... this company could be run by the brady bunch and the sc decision would still be setting a precedent they can't possibly stand by.

[Cactus-Sack]

that is utter bullshit. Reproductive healthcare is a legitimate health concern as well. Flip it the other way. My religious views are that human overpopulation is outside of god's plan and due to people rejecting god's true way. I dont want to have to pay for my employee's pregnancies.


Obesity is also a choice, much like your sexual activity.


Also, it is completely hypocritical that ED drugs are totally fine to be covered, but not birth control? WTF.

Sop being so fallacious and absurd. This is about denying the morning after pill, not birth control. Birth control is a wide range of products, hobby lobby is only refusing to provide the morning after pill. Settle the fvck down Charlie Rangel.

[TheGreatDeraj]

that is utter bullshit. Reproductive healthcare is a legitimate health concern as well. Flip it the other way. My religious views are that human overpopulation is outside of god's plan and due to people rejecting god's true way. I dont want to have to pay for my employee's pregnancies.


Obesity is also a choice, much like your sexual activity.

Also, it is completely hypocritical that ED drugs are totally fine to be covered, but not birth control? WTF.

Gotta disagree, how is birth control a health concern? As far as I know birth control does not prevent, cure or treat any disease.

Your pregnancy analogy is pretty far off, no religious group has legitimate beliefs that child barring is wrong.

If you are familiar with Catholicism at all then I'm you know that they legitimately aren't even allowed to use condoms(or *********e), because they believe spilling the seed is a sin.

As far as the ED thing goes, that actually helps with a medical condition, erect dysfunction. What medical condition does birth control help with?

I do think trying to take down Obamacare and get the government off there back has just as much to do with this as their religious beliefs

[RidonKs]

As far as the ED thing goes, that actually helps with a medical condition, erect dysfunction. What medical condition does birth control help with?
birth control is a preventative action against pregnancy, a medical condition that comes with significant health risks, debilitating physical/emotional symptoms, and of course, major costs that must be born by somebody. it's also frequently unplanned and accidental.

but i guess none of that counts right?

[TheGreatDeraj]

birth control is a preventative action against pregnancy, a medical condition that comes with significant health risks, debilitating physical/emotional symptoms, and of course, major costs that must be born by somebody. it's also frequently unplanned and accidental.

but i guess none of that counts right?

Pregnancy is a 100% preventable condition that does not require any medication to prevent.

edit: I take that back 99.99% preventable, rape is unfortunate reality.

[boozehound]

Sop being so fallacious and absurd. This is about denying the morning after pill, not birth control. Birth control is a wide range of products, hobby lobby is only refusing to provide the morning after pill. Settle the fvck down Charlie Rangel.
You need to read up on the case. This is about more than just the morning after pill. It might help you add anything of substance to the debate.



Again, this doesnt address why religious views of reproduction have a protected status while religious views of other health care matters do not. There is no reasonable way for the Supreme Court to constitutionally separate these things and it will bite them in the ass.

[boozehound]

Gotta disagree, how is birth control a health concern? As far as I know birth control does not prevent, cure or treat any disease.

Your pregnancy analogy is pretty far off, no religious group has legitimate beliefs that child barring is wrong.

If you are familiar with Catholicism at all then I'm you know that they legitimately aren't even allowed to use condoms(or *********e), because they believe spilling the seed is a sin.

As far as the ED thing goes, that actually helps with a medical condition, erect dysfunction. What medical condition does birth control help with?

I do think trying to take down Obamacare and get the government off there back has just as much to do with this as their religious beliefs
I wont address your point that reproductive healthcare isnt an actual health concern. That is like saying medical procedures related to weight loss arent health care.


However, who are you to define every religious view? There certainly are religious groups who view human overpopulation as a disease of the earth. They may not be a major sect, but they are out there, and their right to their religious beliefs is just as protected as the Catholics or anyone else. Thats the point. The justices were faith activists in this decision. They let their personal religious views color their interpretation of the constitution here.



ED is a medical conditon but being pregnant (and not wanting to be, a right protected by the constitution) is not? Thats like saying anything preventative (vaccines for example) aren't related to medical conditions. 99% of people who get the vaccine for Rubella will never be exposed to it anyways.

[Jailblazers7]

Pregnancy is a 100% preventable condition that does not require any medication to prevent.

edit: I take that back 99.99% preventable, rape is unfortunate reality.

Condom failure rate is 18%.

http://www.cdc.gov/reproductivehealth/unintendedpregnancy/contraception.htm

[Cactus-Sack]

Condom failure rate is 18%.

http://www.cdc.gov/reproductivehealth/unintendedpregnancy/contraception.htm

Abstinence failure rate is 0%. They aren't trying to take away regular contraception anyway, so it's moot.

[Akrazotile]

OP is pretty crazy if he truly views health care like this. His statements suggest that any employer should have direct and unfettered access to your entire medical record and input on all health decisions because they pay insurance is insane and definitely illegal.

Why in the world is contraception (and reproductive health in general) any different than other health decisions? This will bite the supreme court in the ass down the road.

Why couldnt a closely held company say that hospital treatments are against their religious views and they shouldnt have to cover any health insurance (there are religions like this)?

The fact that people like OP are spewing such vitriol over this shows that this was not a rational argument, but one made (and defended by the religious wingnuts on the court- people who believe in satan and they are doing god's work) from a position of faith activism.


So do you feel only people with a left wing belief system should be allowed to open and run businesses in America?


Why should businesses be legally obliged to pay their employees health care, and not be allowed to raise a single objection to any old treatment or prescription a doctor and drug company can come up with to make a buck?


Why do you want to standardize American thought AND stifle the discipline and initiative it would take to seek a better employer who willingly provides benefits that are in line with the employees desires?


I guess what Im asking is, why is your solution to everythin "more government"? Do you think this creates an independent, proactive, attentive populace?

[Nanners]

I have multiple problems with this hobby lobby bullshit

I dont like this idea that corporations can have religious beliefs. corporations are property, not people. The main reason that corporations exist is to separate individuals from their business activities, to protect personal assets if the business fails. If corporations are people then my car is a person.

Being exempted from certain laws because of religious beliefs is a very slippery slope. Hobby lobby didnt want to cover a few birth controls (that were required by law), but now what is stopping a corporation from claiming they are christian scientist and therefore refuse to cover all medical care other than prayer? What is stopping a corporation run by muslims from getting an exemption from gender descrimination laws? The bible says usury is a sin, does that mean I can get a religious exemption from paying interest on my business loans?

Ultimately corporations should not have anything to do with healthcare. Healthcare should be provided by the government, like it is in virtually every developed nation on this planet.

[Jailblazers7]

Abstinence failure rate is 0%. They aren't trying to take away regular contraception anyway, so it's moot.

Well, the fact that regular contraceptives have fairly large failure rates doesn't make pregnancy 100% preventable. Sorry but abstinence is a policy that should really only be preached to people under 20. Once you reach your 20s sexual experience becomes and important part of healthy human interaction and intimacy.

[Akrazotile]

birth control is a preventative action against pregnancy, a medical condition that comes with significant health risks, debilitating physical/emotional symptoms, and of course, major costs that must be born by somebody. it's also frequently unplanned and accidental.

but i guess none of that counts right?


There is also a cheaper and more reliable alternative called abstinence. The cost of abstincence is "free" and youre asking employers to pay more than that for people who dont want to be abstinent, dont want to take responsibility for their own birth control mechanisms, but still want to be sexually active?

Kindly GTFO. People have to make their own decisions and their own sacrificies in life. Why are libs allergic to this? You cant always get what you want. Liberals livin that fairytale that if govt just starts giving everyone everything they want we'll have a magical utopia! :facepalm


Seriously, read a history book. Come on.

[Norcaliblunt]

This is why we need universal healthcare, Medicare for all. If your doctor says you need it, you're covered, simple as that.

[Akrazotile]

I have multiple problems with this hobby lobby bullshit

I dont like this idea that corporations can have religious beliefs. corporations are property, not people. if corporations are people then my car is a person.




Great, no more corporate taxes!

Or does your car pay taxes?

[Norcaliblunt]

I didn't even know hobby lobby still existed. Lol.

[Nanners]

Great, no more corporate taxes!

Or does your car pay taxes?

Yes. I pay registration and gas tax for my car just like business owners pay fees and taxes for their business.

[Norcaliblunt]

This is just another oligarch trying to flex their muscles and unleash another psy-op upon the American people.

[Cactus-Sack]

Well, the fact that regular contraceptives have fairly large failure rates doesn't make pregnancy 100% preventable. Sorry but abstinence is a policy that should really only be preached to people under 20. Once you reach your 20s sexual experience becomes and important part of healthy human interaction and intimacy.

I wasn't saying people should practice abstinence, I was saying that getting preggers is unbelievably easy to avoid, and getting pregnant is a choice. If you choose to engage in an activity that will produce an obvious result, you shouldn't force anyone to pay to correct your mistake.

[Cactus-Sack]

This is why we need universal healthcare, Medicare for all. If your doctor says you need it, you're covered, simple as that.

Go smoke another joint you imbecile. Or i'll launch a "psy-op" on you.

[Norcaliblunt]

It's hard to take anyone seriously that spews this "I don't wanna pay for it" schtick, when you look at the dumbass shit everybody spends money on from top to the bottom.

[Norcaliblunt]

Go smoke another joint you imbecile. Or i'll launch a "psy-op" on you.


What's that you say? Your mom gives good head? Well, that's good to know.

[~primetime~]

so, what is the difference between this and saying we dont want our health care plan to cover cancer treatment or depression or obesity related disease (because the body is a temple) based on religious rights? Who is the supreme court to evaluate what religious beliefs are worthy of upholding and which are too crazy?
well that would be ALL of the health care, lol, but to answer your question, NO DIFFERENCE

there are companies that offer NO HEALTH CARE

If a company, for whatever retarded reason, wanted to offer health care MINUS cancer treatment, that is their right IMO. If an employee doesn't like it they can work somewhere else, again, no one is forcing them to work for Hobby Lobby or "Company X"

[Nanners]

well that would be ALL of the health care, lol, but to answer your question, NO DIFFERENCE

there are companies that offer NO HEALTH CARE

If a company, for whatever retarded reason, wanted to offer health care MINUS cancer treatment, that is their right IMO. If an employee doesn't like it they can work somewhere else, again, no one is forcing them to work for Hobby Lobby or "Company X"

you clearly have no idea how the affordable care act works. businesses of a certain size are required by law to provide certain healthcare benefits (contraception being one of them). hobby lobby has gotten a partial exemption from this law.

if a company as large as hobby lobby wanted to offer health care minus cancer treatment they would be literally breaking the law.

[Akrazotile]

Yes. I pay registration and gas tax for my car just like business owners pay fees and taxes for their business.


Great news, corps will be thrilled not to be taxed on their income, just an annual registration fee and the sales tax for any products or equipment they use.


Excellent plan, get it in front of O immediately!

[TheGreatDeraj]

I wont address your point that reproductive healthcare isnt an actual health concern. That is like saying medical procedures related to weight loss arent health care.

However, who are you to define every religious view? There certainly are religious groups who view human overpopulation as a disease of the earth. They may not be a major sect, but they are out there, and their right to their religious beliefs is just as protected as the Catholics or anyone else. Thats the point. The justices were faith activists in this decision. They let their personal religious views color their interpretation of the constitution here.

ED is a medical conditon but being pregnant (and not wanting to be, a right protected by the constitution) is not? Thats like saying anything preventative (vaccines for example) aren't related to medical conditions. 99% of people who get the vaccine for Rubella will never be exposed to it anyways.

Reproduction is a health concern. This is about birth control though. Birth control does not cure, prevent or treat any disease. If you are overweight and unhealthy plus you don't lose weight, then you are at an increased risk every second of every day of, for example, a heart attack. However, If you are not on birth control you are not at an increased risk for any disease or disorder. You are not even at risk of pregnancy unless you choose to have sex(except rape).

I'm not trying to define every religious view. Please show me a religious group that legitimately believes childbearing is wrong? Overpopulation =/= childbearing. They are impossible to distinguish on the individual level. No religious group is against child bearing.

ED is a medical condition that some people have no choice in. Pregnancy(except in cases of rape) is done by a voluntary act. If you don't take a vaccine you can get sick by no choice of your own. If you don't take birth control, you cannot get pregnant unless you choose to have sex(again not counting rape).

No one's health is being hurt because they aren't given free birth control.

[Cactus-Sack]

What's that you say? Your mom gives good head? Well, that's good to know.

If that's the best you can come up with, i'll just stop teasing you now and call up the Mendocino home for the disabled and they'll pick you up, take you home, give you a bath and get you ready for a nice relaxing night of being sodomized by the orderly's.

[Norcaliblunt]

Voluntarism cracks me up. Life isn't voluntary. Family units are not voluntary. Everything that goes into raising children at the most fundamental level is not voluntary. Nothing reinforces voluntarism at the most developmental stages of life, and we expect the world to work in a some magical voluntary way. Get the **** out of here wit that BS. This shit is worse than hippie peace love utopia stuff.

[Norcaliblunt]

If that's the best you can come up with, i'll just stop teasing you now and call up the Mendocino home for the disabled and they'll pick you up, take you home, give you a bath and get you ready for a nice relaxing night of being sodomized by the orderly's.


Blah blah blah, get a life buddy.

[Jameerthefear]

well that would be ALL of the health care, lol, but to answer your question, NO DIFFERENCE

there are companies that offer NO HEALTH CARE

If a company, for whatever retarded reason, wanted to offer health care MINUS cancer treatment, that is their right IMO. If an employee doesn't like it they can work somewhere else, again, no one is forcing them to work for Hobby Lobby or "Company X"
wtf?? why would u want to give businesses the right to **** you in the ass like that?

[Akrazotile]

wtf?? why would u want to give businesses the right to **** you in the ass like that?


Same reason you'd want to give two men the right to **** each other in the ass. It's called liberty.

[Cactus-Sack]

wtf?? why would u want to give businesses the right to **** you in the ass like that?

Spoken truly like a narcissist who has lived off welfare his whole life.


You aren't GIVING anyone anything retard. It's THEIR money, they should be able to whatever the fvck they want with it.

Is that why your pops ain't worked in 15 years? He got the same entitled attitude as you?

[~primetime~]

you clearly have no idea how the affordable care act works. businesses of a certain size are required by law to provide certain healthcare benefits (contraception being one of them). hobby lobby has gotten a partial exemption from this law.

if a company as large as hobby lobby wanted to offer health care minus cancer treatment they would be literally breaking the law.
I said "within the confines of the law"

If Hobby Lobby is breaking a law then they need to adjust accordingly...if not they can do what they want IMO

[Norcaliblunt]

wtf?? why would u want to give businesses the right to **** you in the ass like that?


Because they never think it will happen to them. And people like this, like to sit up on their high horse and act all self righteous like they would be fine no matter what finding work any where.

[~primetime~]

wtf?? why would u want to give businesses the right to **** you in the ass like that?
you don't have to work there...no one is forcing you to work there

people aren't helpless slaves to Hobby Lobby

[Akrazotile]

You aren't GIVING anyone anything retard. It's THEIR money, they should be able to whatever the fvck they want with it.



You know what's funny about this debate is how libs are crying "don't force your religion on me! don't force your religion on me!! Oh but by the way we need companies to pay for this and that, also we're gonna make rich people cover x, y, and z, oh and we're gonna redistribute everyones income and make these people responsible for those people. Why? Because it's RIGHT! Because it's MORAL! Because that's what we SHOULD do!"


And who granted them dictatorship over morals? I thought these self proclaimed atheists didn't believe in such "fairytale nonsense" as morality and right/wrong. Hmm. Yet they want to be gatekeepers of what is right or wrong and the third party arbitrators of what person A owes to person B???

That's the game of hypocrisy they play. "You can't force your morals on me, I have the right to be protected from that! But... guess what? You're gonna follow my morals buddy!"


Totally transparent hypocrisy.

[Jameerthefear]

seriously it's like u guys like bending over and saying "f*ck me harder" to these big ass corporations. hilarious.

[Norcaliblunt]

you don't have to work there...no one is forcing you to work there

people aren't helpless slaves to Hobby Lobby


What about long time employees with families? What is your concern for them? It's just "sorry dude pack up your shit and find work elsewhere if you don't like it". That is really the mentality we are gonna have?

[Norcaliblunt]

Voluntarism cracks me up. Life isn't voluntary. Family units are not voluntary. Everything that goes into raising children at the most fundamental level is not voluntary. Nothing reinforces voluntarism at the most developmental stages of life, and we expect the world to work in a some magical voluntary way. Get the **** out of here wit that BS. This shit is worse than hippie peace love utopia stuff.

[Akrazotile]

seriously it's like u guys like bending over and saying "f*ck me harder" to these big ass corporations. hilarious.


and it's like sweaty little 40 year old men like you pretending to be a child on the internet actually like saying "I don't have time to think and act for myself like an independent, autonomous human being... I need the government to take care of helpless lil ol me while i troll the internet!"


hilarious.

[Cactus-Sack]

seriously it's like u guys like bending over and saying "f*ck me harder" to these big ass corporations. hilarious.

Never had a job. Pops never had a job. Complete idiot, narcissist and future perpetually unemployed:



Symptoms of this disorder, as defined by the DSM-IV-TR, include:

Expects to be recognized as superior and special, without superior accomplishments
Expects constant attention, admiration and positive reinforcement from others
Envies others and believes others envy him/her
Is preoccupied with thoughts and fantasies of great success, enormous attractiveness, power, intelligence
Lacks the ability to empathize with the feelings or desires of others
Is arrogant in attitudes and behavior
Has expectations of special treatment that are unrealistic

[~primetime~]

What about long time employees with families? What is your concern for them? It's just "sorry dude pack up your shit and find work elsewhere if you don't like it". That is really the mentality we are gonna have?
That happens a lot I think. Companies make changes/cuts that long time employees don't like and are forced to either leave or put up with it.

[Norcaliblunt]

All this LIBERTY talk is basically a code word for "RIGHT OF THE BULLY".

[Jameerthefear]

and it's like sweaty little 40 year old men like you pretending to be a child on the internet actually like saying "I don't have time to think and act for myself like an independent, autonomous human being... I need the government to take care of helpless lil ol me while i troll the internet!"


hilarious.
the funny thing is that ur an actual unemployed grown man and i'm just a kid :oldlol:

[Nanners]

Health insurance is a form of compensation no different from your paycheck. Allowing hobby lobby to dictate what you can/cant get with your insurance is really no different from allowing them to dictate what you can/cannot buy with your paycheck. You earned the health insurance, you should be allowed to use it as you see fit.

Hobby lobby is not being forced to pay for contraception, the worker is the one paying for contraception and they do so by working enough hours to earn health insurance coverage.

[Norcaliblunt]

That happens a lot I think. Companies make changes/cuts that long time employees don't like and are forced to either leave or put up with it.

And thats why corporate America needs to unionize.

[Jameerthefear]

Health insurance is a form of compensation no different than your paycheck. Allowing hobby lobby to dictate what you can/cant get with your insurance is no different from allowing them to dictate what you can/cannot buy with your paycheck.

Hobby lobby is not being forced to pay for contraception, the worker is paying for contraception by working enough hours to earn health insurance coverage.
:applause:

[Cactus-Sack]

the funny thing is that ur an actual unemployed grown man and i'm just a kid :oldlol:

You're 16 and still haven't ever worked. Your dad hasn't worked for even longer than that.

[Norcaliblunt]

Voluntarism is just as bad of a utopian joke as communism.

[Cactus-Sack]

All this LIBERTY talk is basically a code word for "RIGHT OF THE BULLY".

Those big bully corporations like hobby lobby, better get the little, old, kindly federal government to force them to do what we want with their stuff!

[Cactus-Sack]

Health insurance is a form of compensation no different from your paycheck. Allowing hobby lobby to dictate what you can/cant get with your insurance is really no different from allowing them to dictate what you can/cannot buy with your paycheck. You earned the health insurance, you should be allowed to use it as you see fit.

Hobby lobby is not being forced to pay for contraception, the worker is the one paying for contraception and they do so by working enough hours to earn health insurance coverage.

They ought to be able to compensate worker for as much, or little and in whatever way they wish. If it's a bad deal no one will work their and they'll go out of business. Why do you think what and how Hobby Lobby pays their employees is any of your or the governments business?

[Norcaliblunt]

Those big bully corporations like hobby lobby, better get the little, old, kindly federal government to force them to do what we want with their stuff!

No, we as American citizens are using a tool given to us by are founding fathers called a government of the people to help secure our well earned economic rights.

[Breezy]

Cool. Now no one has to follow any law due to religious reasons.

My religion tells me I should kill your mom. What? It's my religion! You can't tell me what to do or not do. That's my belief, right? I shouldn't have to follow any law that conflicts with my religion. And my religion says to kill your mom.

Nothing I can do about it...is your mom around?



Don't call the cops. It's sarcasm.

It's not sarcasm, you are just very poorly analogizing your argument.

You'll notice I didn't mention religion. If a vegan store is made to subsidize the purchase of meat then that also should be Illegal.


The slope is slippery on this one.

Learn the difference between positive rights and negative rights. The constitution protects one of them and not the other.


Pretty standard "pick and choose" Christians, that's all the Hobby Lobby folks are. Only, this time they got to pick and choose what laws they follow. Pretty sweet deal when all you have to do is claim adherence to some fairy tales and superstitions.

Love my country <3

You've got it wrong. It's the government that gets to pick and choose what laws it will follow. Unfortunately it also get's to pick and choose what laws YOU have to follow. Even if those laws contradict one another.


OP is pretty crazy if he truly views health care like this. His statements suggest that any employer should have direct and unfettered access to your entire medical record and input on all health decisions because they pay insurance is insane and definitely illegal.

Why in the world is contraception (and reproductive health in general) any different than other health decisions? This will bite the supreme court in the ass down the road.

I want to call this a Strawman but it doesn't even reach that rather low level of logical fallacy. It's like your summarizing someone else's argument entirely. Please show where The court decision or I have argued for "unfettered access to you entire medical record". ONCE AGAIN, Zero health Decisions have been made for you. Who is making decisions for who? A business deciding not to subsidize your purchases, or You deciding what you'll make them pay for?.. Yeah It's pretty straight forward.


Can some company refuse to cover vaccinations because they think it will cause autism?

Legally no.


If it is an employers "business" then wouldn't they rather pay for a relatively inexpensive abortion instead of a costly pregnancy? If he/she disagrees because of moral/religious reason then why should they have the right to impose their values simply because they occupy a position of power?

2 points. 1. The argument that your healthcare rights are none of your employers business is clearly wrong when the whole point of the mandate is literally to make it their busniess. 2. Once again. Not subsidizing contraception is not imposing values on you, anymore than not subsidizing food is imposing food choices on you.


don't know what this is about but employers should be forced to pay for as much of their employees shit as possible. fvk a boss

This seems like an accurate summary of the other sides opinion.


Supreme Court upheld the law's constitutionality...but its illegal.

Gotcha.

Actually there are 3 laws in conflict with each other. The Constitution, the Religious freedom restoration act and the Affordable care act mandate. A good example of how the people in charge are just making it up as they go along. Also I'd like someone to explain to me the concept of Illegal laws.


http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2014/04/hobby-lobby-retirement-plan-invested-emergency-contraception-and-abortion-drug-makers

the details of this case are literally insane according to this article

a) they're claiming a whole bunch of different contraceptive methods fall under the category of "abortion" which is flatly wrong

b) by prohibiting their inclusion in health care plans, you're literally just asking for more actual abortions down the line

c) hobby lobby will not pay for their employees use of these contraceptives.... but they will invest millions in the companies that make those very contraceptives

d) hobby lobby has been including those contraceptives in their health plans for years and only decided to drop them two years ago... approximately around the time they began planning this lawsuit


the whole thing barely rises to the level of farce. but of course all of that is irrelevant... this company could be run by the brady bunch and the sc decision would still be setting a precedent they can't possibly stand by.

Ahh Mother Jones! Glad to see your reading up. Perhaps I could recommend a more centrist publication like The Daily Kos or The Communist manifesto.

All irrelevant anyway. Contraception doesn't cause abortion. Hobby lobby is retarded. But even dumb people shouldn't be coerced.


I have multiple problems with this hobby lobby bullshit

I dont like this idea that corporations can have religious beliefs. corporations are property, not people. The main reason that corporations exist is to separate individuals from their business activities, to protect personal assets if the business fails. If corporations are people then my car is a person.

Cooperation aren't even property they are legal fiction. They do represent the people that own them however. If you decide that people have rights then they do not lose their rights when they act jointly.


Being exempted from certain laws because of religious beliefs is a very slippery slope. Hobby lobby didnt want to cover a few birth controls (that were required by law), but now what is stopping a corporation from claiming they are christian scientist and therefore refuse to cover all medical care other than prayer? What is stopping a corporation run by muslims from getting an exemption from gender descrimination laws? The bible says usury is a sin, does that mean I can get a religious exemption from paying interest on my business loans?

I would welcome all of those scenarios. Free association is a fundamental human right. As has been shown through countless examples and Empirical testing, markets reduce discrimination and improve working condition far better than laws and regulations do.


Ultimately corporations should not have anything to do with healthcare. Healthcare should be provided by the government, like it is in virtually every developed nation on this planet.

People should not get their Healthcare through their Job.

Speaking of things that don't exist, The Government. What you mean to say is tax payer funded. To the extent that countries subsidize their healthcare sector they harm their population. Supply and Demand are not discarded by socializing the costs.

http://archive.mises.org/10355/socialized-healthcare-vs-the-laws-of-economics/

[Nanners]

They ought to be able to compensate worker for as much, or little and in whatever way they wish. If it's a bad deal no one will work their and they'll go out of business. Why do you think what and how Hobby Lobby pays their employees is any of your or the governments business?

Just.... no.

Certain aspects of corporations are regulated by the government. An obvious example is minimum wage laws - Hobby Lobby cannot simply compensate workers as little as they wish (as you claim they should), they are required by law to provide a minimum level of compensation. Hobby Lobby is also required by law to provide health care that covers many basic things including contraception, well at least they were required to do this until they recently got the exemption.

[Norcaliblunt]

Lol. at Mises.

[Akrazotile]

Just.... no.

Certain aspects of corporations are regulated by the government. An obvious example is minimum wage laws - Hobby Lobby cannot simply compensate workers as little as they wish (as you claim), they are required by law to provide a minimum level of compensation. Hobby Lobby is also required by law to provide health care that covers many basic things including contraception, well at least they were required to do this until they recently got the exemption.


:djparty


Eat liberty, bitch!!!

[Cactus-Sack]

No, we as American citizens are using a tool given to us by are founding fathers called a government of the people to help secure our well earned economic rights.

You think Jefferson was on your side? You're an idiot and you should bash you brains in with a hammer.

[Cactus-Sack]

Just.... no.

Certain aspects of corporations are regulated by the government. An obvious example is minimum wage laws - Hobby Lobby cannot simply compensate workers as little as they wish (as you claim they should), they are required by law to provide a minimum level of compensation. Hobby Lobby is also required by law to provide health care that covers many basic things including contraception, well at least they were required to do this until they recently got the exemption.

I wasn't saying that's how it is, but rather how it should be.

[Nanners]

i cant wait for a corporation run by muslims to use this ruling to force their female employees to wear burqas, these people who are cheering for hobby lobby are going to be changing their tune mighty fast :oldlol:

[Jameerthefear]

SMH at other poor people protecting rich people. stupid fvcks.

[Norcaliblunt]

You either choose to have a strong nation state, with a strong federal government, engaging in building civilization, with the people protected by an economic bill of rights, or you choose to be imperialized. Bottom line. All you libertarian anarchist's better start learning Chinese if you really think your ideas will prevail.

[Nanners]

I wasn't saying that's how it is, but rather how it should be.

well thats how it is, and not just in the US... businesses are regulated in this way in every developed nation on this planet.

if you dont like it you can move somewhere like somalia, or write your congressman.

[Breezy]

Voluntarism cracks me up. Life isn't voluntary. Family units are not voluntary. Everything that goes into raising children at the most fundamental level is not voluntary. Nothing reinforces voluntarism at the most developmental stages of life, and we expect the world to work in a some magical voluntary way. Get the **** out of here wit that BS. This shit is worse than hippie peace love utopia stuff.

Kim Jong Un agrees!

[Cactus-Sack]

i cant wait for a corporation run by muslims to use this ruling to force their female employees to wear burqas, these people who are cheering for hobby lobby are going to be changing their tune mighty fast :oldlol:

I hope tey do, so I can watch that company fail and be replaced by one that isn't run by morons. That's how marketplaces work.

[Norcaliblunt]

and once again voluntarism is a ****ing joke.

[Cactus-Sack]

This fvckwit from Mendocino is goddamn delusional.

"The founders were socialists"

"China is an economically liberal haven"


Just... Stop... Posting...

[Norcaliblunt]

Kim Jong Un agrees!

So does Abe Lincoln, Alexander Hamilton, FDR, Henry Clay, and other great American leaders. But you wouldn't know, because all your idols come from Austria and were funded by the Rockefellers.

[Cactus-Sack]

Lincoln and Hamilton great leaders...

Rockefellers.....





:yaohappy:

[Norcaliblunt]

The American System of Political Economy, learn about it, idiots.

[Norcaliblunt]

Lincoln and Hamilton great leaders...

Rockefellers.....





:yaohappy:

^Fascist

[Norcaliblunt]

Why all your idols from Austria?

[Norcaliblunt]

You think Jefferson was on your side? You're an idiot and you should bash you brains in with a hammer.

**** Jefferson.

[Cactus-Sack]

"Use government force to have my employer pay for anything I want, you FASCIST!"

[Cactus-Sack]

[QUOTE]fas

[Norcaliblunt]

"Use government force to have my employer pay for anything I want, you FASCIST!"

I dont even think you know what the government even is. You realize it is you, don't you? Lol.

[Norcaliblunt]

And Mussolini defined fascism as Corporatocracy. What was the first thing the fascists did? They destroyed all unions and labor power. The same thing you AUSTRIAN'S want.

[Breezy]

So does Abe Lincoln, Alexander Hamilton, FDR, Henry Clay, and other great American leaders. But you wouldn't know, because all your idols come from Austria and were funded by the Rockefellers.

It's a who's who of totalitarians! Seriously **** everyone you just listed. John D. Rockefeller Ironically did more to aid mankind than anyone on that list.

Also, My heroes come from Austria? Let's follow the " I-don't-know-what-the-****-I'm-talking-about" train of thought you just went down. I linked to a Mises.org article written by an American, but the website takes it's name from Ludwig von mises who was an economist from the Austrian school founded by Karl Menger who was in fact... Austrian. Therefore my heroes come from Austria :facepalm Which is totally ad-hominem and addresses nothing.

[Cactus-Sack]

[QUOTE]fas

[Akrazotile]

i cant wait for a corporation run by muslims to use this ruling to force their female employees to wear burqas, these people who are cheering for hobby lobby are going to be changing their tune mighty fast :oldlol:




:roll:


You know when someone resorts to a scenario where big american corporations require their female employees to wear burqas (:roll:) , theres been a checkmate. And not from the guy with the burqa scenario.

[Norcaliblunt]

It's a who's who of totalitarians! Seriously **** everyone you just listed. John D. Rockefeller Ironically did more to aid mankind than anyone on that list.

Also, My heroes come from Austria? Let's follow the " I-don't-know-what-the-****-I'm-talking-about" train of thought you just went down. I linked to a Mises.org article written by an American, but the website takes it's name from Ludwig von mises who was an economist from the Austrian school founded by Karl Menger who was in fact... Austrian. Therefore my heroes come from Austria :facepalm Which is totally ad-hominem and addresses nothing.

Sounds like you hate America.


It addresses the idea that America being founded on anarchistic Austrian economic philosophy is absurd. John D Rockefeller is a humanitarian now? Lol. Take your shit back to Austria.

[Breezy]

It addresses the idea that America being founded on anarchistic Austrian economic philosophy is absurd. John D Rockefeller is a humanitarian now? Lol. Take your shit back to Austria.

Haha! You're taking it to a new level now. The Austrian school ( of which I am not a follower) arrived about 75 years after the United States was formed. So congratulations on discovering that The founders were not influenced by the Austrian School.

John D. Rockefeller ran his business efficiently enough to Lower the price of oil by 30% and passed the savings along to the customers, heating thousands of extra homes which literally saved lives in those days and saving the whales by making it unprofitable to harvest whale blubber for whale oil... Learn your history.

[~primetime~]

i cant wait for a corporation run by muslims to use this ruling to force their female employees to wear burqas, these people who are cheering for hobby lobby are going to be changing their tune mighty fast :oldlol:
What if we weren't talking about Hobby Lobby here...what if we were talking about a branch of Christian Churches with a set of core beliefs that go against "pill-x"

Would you still say we should force that church to provide "pill-x" to it's employees?

[~primetime~]

I personally would have no issue with a Muslim run corporation forcing a dress code on women...if the women don't like it they can go somewhere else

Women don't have to work at Hooters either who require cleavage to be shown...

[rufuspaul]

i cant wait for a corporation run by muslims to use this ruling to force their female employees to wear burqas, these people who are cheering for hobby lobby are going to be changing their tune mighty fast :oldlol:


A couple of things wrong with this comparison. Hobby Lobby isn't forcing its employees to do anything against their will. Also in the above scenario I could see liberals and the liberal media standing up for the right of said Muslim corporation, religion of love and peace, etc.

I still think the Court is on shaky ground here. There's too much vagueness in everything from what constitutes "closely held" to the equating of corporations to individuals. Ultimately we can thank the Dems and the ACA for this whole mess.

[Breezy]

The notion that we will make it incumbent up your boss to provide a health plan, then tell him what has to be in it, then tell him that it's none of his business is inherently ridiculously.

Someone needs to tell these brave feminist warrior princesses fighting the patriarchy that it's time to stop asking daddy to buy you stuff.


"GET OUT OF MY BEDROOM, but leave your wallet"

[Nanners]

What if we weren't talking about Hobby Lobby here...what if we were talking about a branch of Christian Churches with a set of core beliefs that go against "pill-x"

Would you still say we should force that church to provide "pill-x" to it's employees?

christian churches are (supposedly) non-profit and are therefore governed by a different set of laws than companies like hobby lobby. personally i do think churches should be required to cover contraception and other basic healthcare for their employees, but under the current law they are not required to do so which really does not bother me very much.

In case you missed it earlier, this is my reasoning for thinking that corporations should not be allowed to drop coverage for certain types of medical care they disagree with -


Health insurance is a form of compensation no different from your paycheck. Allowing hobby lobby to dictate what you can/cant get with your insurance is really no different from allowing them to dictate what you can/cannot buy with your paycheck. You earned the health insurance, you should be allowed to use it as you see fit.

Hobby lobby is not being forced to pay for contraception, the worker is the one paying for contraception and they do so by working enough hours to earn health insurance coverage.

If hobby lobby refuses to cover birth control, and a woman uses money out of her hobby lobby paycheck to buy a morning after pill, hobby lobby is paying for that birth control just as much as they would if they had covered it through insurance.

[~primetime~]

If hobby lobby refuses to cover birth control, and a woman uses money out of her hobby lobby paycheck to buy a morning after pill, hobby lobby is paying for that birth control just as much as they would if they had covered it through insurance.
health insurance is NOT the same as a paycheck...if it was they would just increase her pay check and say "pay for your own health needs as you see fit"

health insurance is necessary because many health needs are not affordable...

[Nanners]

health insurance is NOT the same as a paycheck...if it was they would just increase her pay check and say "pay for your own health needs as you see fit"

health insurance is necessary because many health needs are not affordable...

no shit health insurance is not the same as a paycheck, try to read a little more carefully and maybe you will understand what i am saying.

they are both forms of compensation and an employer should have no say over how either of them are used.

[Akrazotile]

The notion that we will make it incumbent up your boss to provide a health plan, then tell him what has to be in it, then tell him that it's none of his business is inherently ridiculously.

Someone needs to tell these brave feminist warrior princesses fighting the patriarchy that it's time to stop asking daddy to buy you stuff.


"GET OUT OF MY BEDROOM, but leave your wallet"


:oldlol: :applause:

[Akrazotile]

christian churches are (supposedly) non-profit and are therefore governed by a different set of laws than companies like hobby lobby. personally i do think churches should be required to cover contraception and other basic healthcare for their employees, but under the current law they are not required to do so which really does not bother me very much.

In case you missed it earlier, this is my reasoning for thinking that corporations should not be allowed to drop coverage for certain types of medical care they disagree with -

Health insurance is a form of compensation no different from your paycheck. Allowing hobby lobby to dictate what you can/cant get with your insurance is really no different from allowing them to dictate what you can/cannot buy with your paycheck. You earned the health insurance, you should be allowed to use it as you see fit.*




Hobby lobby is not being forced to pay for contraception, the worker is the one paying for contraception and they do so by working enough hours to earn health insurance coverage.

.



Hold up.


So should MLBPA sue MLB for prohibiting them from gambling with their hard earned dough?


How come Pete Rose hasnt won a lawsuit to overturn his lifetime ban?


Baseball cant tell them what to do with their money.... Right?

[~primetime~]

no shit health insurance is not the same as a paycheck, try to read a little more carefully and maybe you will understand what i am saying.

they are both forms of compensation and an employer should have no say over how either of them are used.
They are the ones purchasing the health insurance...why wouldn't they have say in what they are buying?

not sure why you brought up paychecks at all...yes both are compensation, so are x-mas bonuses and store discounts...should Hobby Lobby have no say in what x-mas bonus and store discounts are?

[Nanners]

They are the ones purchasing the health insurance...why wouldn't they have say in what they are buying?

not sure why you brought up paychecks at all...yes both are compensation, so are x-mas bonuses and store discounts...should Hobby Lobby have no say in what x-mas bonus and store discounts are?

They arent really purchasing the health insurance. Yes they technically cut a check to a health insurance company, but really the employee is purchasing that health insurance with their hours worked at the company. The health insurance is not some gift from Hobby Lobby, the employee earned it and is entitled to all benefits of it.

If you think Hobby Lobby should have a say in what health insurance coverage their employees get, you must also concede that Hobby Lobby should have a say in what their employees are allowed to spend their paychecks on, which would clearly be absurd.

[Akrazotile]

Also its funny how you oppose corporations having guidelines like this, but you support the first peacetime command economy measure in the history of America (obamacare)


Talk about hypocrisy. You must be one pathetic, self-loathing shit in real life to be so obsessed with the coerced conjoining of every person in America to his neighbor so that nobody can get too far ahead.


Hey, why dont we all just LITERALLY handcuff ourselves to each other. A big 350,000,000 person socialist chain! Yippee!! Then the bitter, jealous turds will feel like they finally, FINALLY belong and nobody can escape them or exclude them!

[Akrazotile]

They cut a check to a health insurance company, they cut a check to their employees. If you think they should have a say in what health insurance coverage their employees get, you must also concede that they should have a say in what their employees are allowed to spend their paychecks on.


Baseball does.

[Nanners]

starface i dont know if you are just trolling or if you are seriously that fvcking retarded, but either way i got better ways to spend my time than trying to discuss anything with you.

this is coming from someone willing to waste their time bantering with primetime

[Jameerthefear]

starface i dont know if you are just trolling or if you are seriously that fvcking retarded, but either way i got better ways to spend my time than trying to discuss anything with you.

this is coming from someone willing to waste their time bantering with primetime
:oldlol: Damn

[RidonKs]

Also its funny how you oppose corporations having guidelines like this, but you support the first peacetime command economy measure in the history of America (obamacare)
:oldlol: wow so so many things wrong with this sentence

[Akrazotile]

starface i dont know if you are just trolling or if you are seriously that fvcking retarded, but either way i got better ways to spend my time than trying to discuss anything with you.

this is coming from someone willing to waste their time bantering with primetime


Its funny how that works, isnt it?

You always have all the time in the world to try and attack me on a personal level (as if I care), but then when its time to refute my arguments youre always in a hurry to skeedaddle here or there and you have better things to do.


Dont worry, its alright, get on with whatever you have to do. Im sure one of the clandestine surveillance cameras in your front yard needs repositioning, so you can better see the little girls passing by from your control room in the basement. Fap fap fap fap fap!

[Akrazotile]

:oldlol: wow so so many things wrong with this sentence


O rly? Please, edify us.

[Nanners]

Its funny how that works, isnt it?

You always have all the time in the world to try and attack me on a personal level (as if I care), but then when its time to refute my arguments youre always in a hurry to skeedaddle here or there and you have better things to do.


Dont worry, its alright, get on with whatever you have to do. Im sure one of the clandestine surveillance cameras in your front yard needs repositioning, so you can better see the little girls passing by from your control room in the basement. Fap fap fap fap fap!

the only response your posts are worthy of is personal attacks.

while we are on the topic of personal attacks, funny you would mention my "basement control room" when you are a mid 30s failed actor who is unemployed living off his daddys charity and spending his days raging about libruls on the internet :oldlol:

[Akrazotile]

the only response your posts are worthy of is personal attacks.

while we are on the topic of personal attacks, funny you would mention my "basement control room" when you are a mid 30s failed actor who is unemployed living off his daddys charity and spending his days raging about libruls on the internet :oldlol:


Bruh thats ****ing bullshit and you know it.

I am NOT thirty yet.

[Nanners]

Bru thats ****ing bullshit and you know it.

I am NOT thirty yet.


Deal with it.

:oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol:

even if the thirty part is bullshit, we both know the rest is spot on

[RidonKs]

O rly? Please, edify us.
well for starters, it wasn't a "peacetime measure"

as for the first in american history... i'll let you mull on that one yourself lol

[ace23]

What Hobby Lobby decision?

I haven't heard of that place since middle school or some shit.

[Akrazotile]

:oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol:

even if the thirty part is bullshit, we both know the rest is spot on


I dont care what you believe about the rest of that nonsense. GET THE AGE RIGHT. I still have months, literally MONTHS left of bein a 20-sumpin. Dont short change me, ho ass nikka.

[Akrazotile]

well for starters, it wasn't a "peacetime measure"

as for the first in american history... i'll let you mull on that one yourself lol


Oh?

Against which country was war declared at the time O-care passed?

[Nanners]

I dont care what you believe about the rest of that nonsense. GET THE AGE RIGHT. I still have months, literally MONTHS left of bein a 20-sumpin. Dont short change me, ho ass nikka.



aside from you, the only people i have seen who get so bent out of whack over their age are females. we all know one of those women who have been 29 for like 5 years, thats you.

its particularly funny considering you are always ranting about how libruls are puzzy-ass womenz, then you act just like a woman as soon as your age comes up. :oldlol:

[Akrazotile]

aside from you, the only people i have seen who get so bent out of whack over their age are females. we all know one of those women who have been 29 for like 5 years, thats you.

its particularly funny considering you are always ranting about how libruls are puzzy-ass womenz, then you act just like a woman as soon as your age comes up. :oldlol:



But I really am :cry:

[Nanners]

But I really am :cry:

your average ISH liberal, deucewallace for example, is 10x more of a man than you will ever be. unlike you he actually holds down a job, he provides for a family, and he doesnt feel the need to lie about his age to internet strangers.

what do you do? you sit at home all day posting angsty shit on the internet while paying your bills with someone elses money. thats about as womanly as it gets. the only difference between you and the average feminist writer at jezebel is that you are angsty about different things and you arent that fat yet.

[Akrazotile]

your average ISH liberal, deucewallace for example, is 10x more of a man than you will ever be. unlike you he actually holds down a job, he provides for a family, and he doesnt feel the need to lie about his age to internet strangers.

what do you do? you sit at home all day posting angsty shit on the internet while paying your bills with someone elses money. thats about as womanly as it gets. the only difference between you and the average feminist writer at jezebel is that you are angsty about different things and you arent that fat yet.


Bro, STOP. I am not lying!!!

My uncle is a lawyer and I will sue you for libel.

[boozehound]

http://www.cosmopolitan.com/advice/health/hobby-lobby-lies

Interesting piece.

I wonder what people think about the HL insurance covering vasectomies.....

[RidonKs]

Oh?

Against which country was war declared at the time O-care passed?
well there were over 100k troops between iraq and afghanistan at the time. so there's that.... but no, you're right. it was peacetime because there was no formal declaration. brilliant insight.

[Akrazotile]

http://www.cosmopolitan.com/advice/health/hobby-lobby-lies

Interesting piece.

I wonder what people think about the HL insurance covering vasectomies.....


It's funny how everyone complains about the cost of healthcare, but then when you look at some of the things it covers... erectile dysfunction, "ADD", alcoholism... things that are suddenly labeled "diseases" because people will feel entitled to be treated for them and subsequently demand money to do so from the government. That shit goes into the cost of healthcare premiums for all of us. How much longer until Obama mandates that cosmetic surgery be included on all Americans' plans because the cosmetic lobby has paid him to tell all the liberals each American deserves to have high self esteem and the rich need to pay for it and blah blah blah, which all of his lil sheep will eat up immediately.


It's like liberals who complain about capitalism, but then also complain when the economy is down. Yeah, when other people are making money you think consumerism and money is overrated. But then when money is scarce youre quick to blame it on any republicans you can find and make it sound like we need more money and consumerism and the republicans are holding us back from it. Anything to be a cool hipster contrarian. :facepalm


THese ****ing hypocrite idiots just basically love to cry "its unfair! its unfair!" because they have a glut of time on their hands, and rather than spend it making themselves happy (which is impossible because they're self loathers) they spend their free time dreaming up what new causes will make them look really cool to whine about.

[~primetime~]

They arent really purchasing the health insurance. Yes they technically cut a check to a health insurance company, but really the employee is purchasing that health insurance with their hours worked at the company. The health insurance is not some gift from Hobby Lobby, the employee earned it and is entitled to all benefits of it.

If you think Hobby Lobby should have a say in what health insurance coverage their employees get, you must also concede that Hobby Lobby should have a say in what their employees are allowed to spend their paychecks on, which would clearly be absurd.
It's not like a paycheck it is "BENEFIT" that Hobby Lobby pays for their employees to have. It isn't anything like them telling their employees how to spend their money, it is a "BENEFIT" that they are paying for their employees to have so that they can stay healthy and work.

[~primetime~]

There are all sorts of meds that my own heath insurance doesn't cover...why? my office went with a plan they feel fits and that they can afford.

[Nanners]

It's not like a paycheck it is "BENEFIT" that Hobby Lobby pays for their employees to have. It isn't anything like them telling their employees how to spend their money, it is a "BENEFIT" that they are paying for their employees to have so that they can stay healthy and work.

Hobby Lobby is not just giving their employees free healthcare just because they are good people and want their employees to stay healthy, they give healthcare because they are REQUIRED BY LAW to do so.

It is like a paycheck, but you can call it a "benefit" if that makes you feel better. Either way, the employee earned it by working x amount of hours, and the LAW states that companies like hobby lobby must offer healthcare that covers certain things (like contraceptives).

[Akrazotile]

Hobby Lobby is not just giving their employees free healthcare just because they are good people and want their employees to stay healthy, they give healthcare because they are REQUIRED BY LAW to do so.

You can call it a "benefit" if that makes you feel better, either way the employee earned it and the LAW that states that companies like hobby lobby must offer healthcare that covers certain things (like contraceptives).


Not for long.

[~primetime~]

Hobby Lobby is not just giving their employees free healthcare just because they are good people and want their employees to stay healthy, they give healthcare because they are REQUIRED BY LAW to do so.

It is like a paycheck, but you can call it a "benefit" if that makes you feel better. Either way, the employee earned it by working x amount of hours, and the LAW states that companies like hobby lobby must offer healthcare that covers certain things (like contraceptives).
I do understand that, do you understand that they save money by removing the morning after pill?

That's all they removed BTW, the morning after pill.


You act like Hobby Lobby is paying the same amount regardless and is just being assholes by deciding their employees can't take the pill. That's not the situation here, they save money by removing that pill from their plan, they have just made the decision that they don't want to pay for that particular pill.

[Nanners]

I do understand that, do you understand that they save money by removing the morning after pill?

That's all they removed BTW, the morning after pill.


You act like Hobby Lobby is paying the same amount regardless and is just being assholes by deciding their employees can't take the pill. That's not the situation here, they save money by removing that pill from their plan, they have just made the decision that they don't want to pay for that particular pill.

No, they removed a total of 4 different contraceptives. In addition to the morning after pill was IUDs and something else I forget. Anyway this is not about saving money, this is about the religious right and their collective hatred of obamacare.

My problem is that the law states that hobby lobby and other companies must provide these treatments as part of their health plan, they shouldnt have a choice whether or not they pay for contraceptives....but the supreme court is run by old conservative catholics so they get special treatment.

[~primetime~]

No, they removed a total of 4 different contraceptives. In addition to the morning after pill was IUDs and something else I forget. Anyway this is not about saving money, this is about the religious right and their collective hatred of obamacare.

My problem is that the law states that hobby lobby and other companies must provide these treatments as part of their health plan, they shouldnt have a choice whether or not they pay for contraceptives....but the supreme court is run by old conservative catholics so they get special treatment.
I agree that they should be treated the same as everyone else...

Their motive (saving money or retarded religion) should be irrelevant though

[Akrazotile]

No, they removed a total of 4 different contraceptives. In addition to the morning after pill was IUDs and something else I forget. Anyway this is not about saving money, this is about the religious right and their collective hatred of obamacare.

My problem is that the law states that hobby lobby and other companies must provide these treatments as part of their health plan, they shouldnt have a choice whether or not they pay for contraceptives....but the supreme court is run by old conservative catholics so they get special treatment.


Gay marriage was put to a PUBLIC VOTE in California and was voted DOWN.

Then it was immediately sent to the courts to be overturned by an activist or two who got to be 'decider' for all of California.

You upset about that too?

[Nanners]

I agree that they should be treated the same as everyone else...

Their motive (saving money or retarded religion) should be irrelevant though

in this case motive was relevant. if they had argued that they were just doing it to save money they would have lost in court.

[Nanners]

Gay marriage was put to a PUBLIC VOTE in California and was voted DOWN.

Then it was immediately sent to the courts to be overturned by an activist or two who got to be 'decider' for all of California.

You upset about that too?


am i angry that an unconstitutional state law got overturned by a federal judge? not really.

on the contrary, i am happy that you and dresta will finally be able to tie the knot. although dresta might not be happy with you spending all day raging on the internet while he is working for a living to support your bum ass, you might need to get a job.

[ballup]

So does anyone have a link that gives the rundown on this situation?

[Akrazotile]

am i angry that an unconstitutional law got overturned by a federal judge? not really.

on the contrary, i am happy that you and dresta will finally be able to tie the knot.


You just spent 10 pages complaining about it doe :facepalm

[Nanners]

You just spent 10 pages complaining about it doe :facepalm

completely different situations

[Akrazotile]

completely different situations



Sure it is




http://i1.ytimg.com/vi/s_cAS-mvV20/hqdefault.jpg

[Nanners]

Sure it is




http://i1.ytimg.com/vi/s_cAS-mvV20/hqdefault.jpg

this is exactly why i shouldnt be responding to you. either you are just trolling, or you are just flat out too dumb to see that overturning an unconstitutional law is not the same as granting a narrow exemption from a constitutional law that others are expected to follow, and granting this exemption due to the absurd notion that corporations can have religious beliefs.

[RidonKs]

It's not like a paycheck it is "BENEFIT" that Hobby Lobby pays for their employees to have. It isn't anything like them telling their employees how to spend their money, it is a "BENEFIT" that they are paying for their employees to have so that they can stay healthy and work.
this is false

the us system of employees receiving their insurance coverage from their employers didn't just come out of nowhere. it certainly wasn't some benevolent handout from management so its workforce wouldn't die. that's an incredibly naive reading of what happened.

it came out of contract negotiations through which labour sacrificed a whole hell of a lot in order to get/keep their valuable health care plans. this is why the membership of the biggest unions of all, the uaw, the teamsters, public sector unions, etc get to enjoy their so called "cadillac plans" worry free with coverage that isn't ridden with exceptions and loopholes. and like i said, plenty was given up to win that coverage. wage freezes were agreed to, pensions were cut, etc.

of course this has hurt them in the long run; the unions and the workers they represent. a public option was proposed by truman immediately after the war and was supported by the majority of the public; that's around the time most of the developed world began implementing them because of how ravaged people were from the war. in the us it was opposed by business and medical groups and unions made a tactical decision, opting to avoid the fight for universal public care and instead pursue plans individually through negotiation with employers. this was a big mistake imo.

but nevertheless, over time, the practise of employer provided health care and a higher quality of coverage were normalized and employers were compelled to include decent health care plans in contracts. probably just like hobby lobby. it's not legislated though, which means those gains can easily be lost again... and they have been. take a look at a local paper any day of the week and you'll probably see something about a contract dispute between a union and an employer who is playing hardball because they know they have the upper hand. unions have been decimated. of course they have their own internal issues as well, but that's besides the point.

your suggestion appears to be that the health insurance is not the property of the employee. it's the property of the employer who lets the employee use it temporarily, when needed. which means if the employer doesn't want it used for x, y, or z, they're within their property rights to make those exclusions. but that story is completely inaccurate and does not account for the history of the plans to begin with.



and frankly, and more generally, the classification of health insurance as a "benefit" is a sort of propaganda. in the same way the social safety net has been termed "entitlements". you call something a benefit or an entitlement or a perk or a privilege for long enough and then when it gets cut to the bone or taken away altogether, the conversation isn't about real people who suddenly can't afford food or medicine. it's about greedy moochers sucking at the government tit who feel "entitled" to their "benefits".

and then you get these complicated psychological narratives depicting a culture of decay, the feminization or pussification of the population, how everybody is just lazy and dumb and addicted to consumption and spoiled with their televisions and refrigerators and why bother working when i can just pop out a few more kids for those extra cheques or hell maybe i'll get myself caught with some heroin, go to prison, and live that luxury inmate lifestyle; minimal work, meals prepared, no responsibilities. great!

and the most popular narratives that become pervasive and almost contagious are popular because they're emotionally very potent. they play on our most powerful and typically our most perverse feelings... like resentment for people don't work as hard as "us". but if you ask people, everybody but play-people like paris hilton believe they work harder than the average joe.

of course there are grains of truth in those stories. but they're so far removed from the reality on the ground it reaches absurdity. if i point out that the united states imprisons as much of its population as practically any country in the world, certainly any developed country, and that its prisons have been condemned by international bodies and watchdog organizations as cruel and unusual and dehumanizing, what response do i get? probably another talking point

what if i point out that there is an enormous reservoir of stagnant money sitting uninvested in corporate coffers, while executives taking home billion dollar bonuses after lighting the global economy on fire, tons of urgent infrastructure projects all over the country in desperate need of funding, and tens of millions of people wanting to work who can't.... and the economy as its currently structured can't figure out a way to put 2 and 2 together? well i probably hear a bunch of bullshit about entitled potsmoking liberals in their parents basement arguing on the internet about politics they aren't involved in. or i hear about unemployed mother of seven with her third husband living the life off of alimony and food stamps. or i hear about drug kingpins or homeless beggers or etc it goes on and on and on.

these issues are all very much connected and impossible to disentangle. whats important is to cut through the crap i'm describing and get at more of a systematic analysis of what is really happening.


in the case of birth control, as has been explained more than enough on this website and elsewhere, there are very predictable consequences to limiting women's access to contraception. the consequences are more abortions, which is bad enough, but even worse, more unwanted pregnancies. those have a devastating effect on individuals which has a devastating effect on families which has a devastating effect on communities and cities and states and entire countries.

i mean people aren't just gonna stop having sex because they can't afford the safest most effective forms of contraception. we're talking about people here. and sex. this isn't fking rocket science.

[~primetime~]

in this case motive was relevant. if they had argued that they were just doing it to save money they would have lost in court.
So your beef isn't with Hobby Lobby...It's with the law

I don't like the idea of them being treated differently due to beliefs either...I was defending their right to dictate the health care they provide their employees within the confines of the law.

[~primetime~]

Wow Donks I'm going to have to get to that monster later, I'm on my phone

[RidonKs]

Wow Donks I'm going to have to get to that monster later, I'm on my phone
the second part is just one long digression not really addressed to your points in particular lol

[Akrazotile]

this is exactly why i shouldnt be responding to you. either you are just trolling, or you are just flat out too dumb to see that overturning an unconstitutional law is not the same as granting a narrow exemption from a constitutional law that others are expected to follow, and granting this exemption due to the absurd notion that corporations can have religious beliefs.


The 'narrow exemption' is granted because that aspect of the law was deemed unconstitutional :hammerhead:

[Nanners]

The 'narrow exemption' is granted because that aspect of the law was deemed unconstitutional :hammerhead:
No it wasn't. You clearly don't even know what happened so why are you flapping your jaws? The exemption was granted because of the religious freedom act, an obscure law created to let natives smoke peyote. It had nothing to do with the constitution. I still can't tell if you are trolling or just incredibly stupid.

[Norcaliblunt]

Man sometimes I can be on some **** the government shit, just as much as the next guy, but when you finally realize that the main goal of the CIA through these wars it is to destroy the modern nation state, you have to wonder who your anti government rhetoric is helping. Big government/world government is not what is happening. The breaking up of civilization into micro states, mini states is the agenda. They are already doing it in the Middle East, and I would not be surprised if the end game is to carve up America as well. That's why you gotta watch the anti government stuff. You might be spouting CIA policy thinking you're a rebel. Lol.

[Nanners]

this is false

the us system of employees receiving their insurance coverage from their employers didn't just come out of nowhere. it certainly wasn't some benevolent handout from management so its workforce wouldn't die. that's an incredibly naive reading of what happened.

it came out of contract negotiations through which labour sacrificed a whole hell of a lot in order to get/keep their valuable health care plans. this is why the membership of the biggest unions of all, the uaw, the teamsters, public sector unions, etc get to enjoy their so called "cadillac plans" worry free with coverage that isn't ridden with exceptions and loopholes. and like i said, plenty was given up to win that coverage. wage freezes were agreed to, pensions were cut, etc.

of course this has hurt them in the long run; the unions and the workers they represent. a public option was proposed by truman immediately after the war and was supported by the majority of the public; that's around the time most of the developed world began implementing them because of how ravaged people were from the war. in the us it was opposed by business and medical groups and unions made a tactical decision, opting to avoid the fight for universal public care and instead pursue plans individually through negotiation with employers. this was a big mistake imo.

but nevertheless, over time, the practise of employer provided health care and a higher quality of coverage were normalized and employers were compelled to include decent health care plans in contracts. probably just like hobby lobby. it's not legislated though, which means those gains can easily be lost again... and they have been. take a look at a local paper any day of the week and you'll probably see something about a contract dispute between a union and an employer who is playing hardball because they know they have the upper hand. unions have been decimated. of course they have their own internal issues as well, but that's besides the point.

your suggestion appears to be that the health insurance is not the property of the employee. it's the property of the employer who lets the employee use it temporarily, when needed. which means if the employer doesn't want it used for x, y, or z, they're within their property rights to make those exclusions. but that story is completely inaccurate and does not account for the history of the plans to begin with.



and frankly, and more generally, the classification of health insurance as a "benefit" is a sort of propaganda. in the same way the social safety net has been termed "entitlements". you call something a benefit or an entitlement or a perk or a privilege for long enough and then when it gets cut to the bone or taken away altogether, the conversation isn't about real people who suddenly can't afford food or medicine. it's about greedy moochers sucking at the government tit who feel "entitled" to their "benefits".

and then you get these complicated psychological narratives depicting a culture of decay, the feminization or pussification of the population, how everybody is just lazy and dumb and addicted to consumption and spoiled with their televisions and refrigerators and why bother working when i can just pop out a few more kids for those extra cheques or hell maybe i'll get myself caught with some heroin, go to prison, and live that luxury inmate lifestyle; minimal work, meals prepared, no responsibilities. great!

and the most popular narratives that become pervasive and almost contagious are popular because they're emotionally very potent. they play on our most powerful and typically our most perverse feelings... like resentment for people don't work as hard as "us". but if you ask people, everybody but play-people like paris hilton believe they work harder than the average joe.

of course there are grains of truth in those stories. but they're so far removed from the reality on the ground it reaches absurdity. if i point out that the united states imprisons as much of its population as practically any country in the world, certainly any developed country, and that its prisons have been condemned by international bodies and watchdog organizations as cruel and unusual and dehumanizing, what response do i get? probably another talking point

what if i point out that there is an enormous reservoir of stagnant money sitting uninvested in corporate coffers, while executives taking home billion dollar bonuses after lighting the global economy on fire, tons of urgent infrastructure projects all over the country in desperate need of funding, and tens of millions of people wanting to work who can't.... and the economy as its currently structured can't figure out a way to put 2 and 2 together? well i probably hear a bunch of bullshit about entitled potsmoking liberals in their parents basement arguing on the internet about politics they aren't involved in. or i hear about unemployed mother of seven with her third husband living the life off of alimony and food stamps. or i hear about drug kingpins or homeless beggers or etc it goes on and on and on.

these issues are all very much connected and impossible to disentangle. whats important is to cut through the crap i'm describing and get at more of a systematic analysis of what is really happening.


in the case of birth control, as has been explained more than enough on this website and elsewhere, there are very predictable consequences to limiting women's access to contraception. the consequences are more abortions, which is bad enough, but even worse, more unwanted pregnancies. those have a devastating effect on individuals which has a devastating effect on families which has a devastating effect on communities and cities and states and entire countries.

i mean people aren't just gonna stop having sex because they can't afford the safest most effective forms of contraception. we're talking about people here. and sex. this isn't fking rocket science.

One of the best posts I have read on ISH.

[Norcaliblunt]

One of the best posts I have read on ISH.

I concur.

[Norcaliblunt]

:biggums:


unions made a tactical decision, opting to avoid the fight for universal public care and instead pursue plans individually through negotiation with employers. this was a big mistake imo..

Just as it was a mistake for the Democratic Party and Obama supporters to not push harder for a Medicare for all style plan. With this hobby lobby thing it should now be obvious to any left leaning person regardless of the democratic party and idol worship, that universial healthcare is what is needed, and Obam are is critically flawed. That's really what the protest should be for.

[Jailblazers7]

Also, I think the foolishness of an abstinence policy is under discussed. Sexual interaction is a vital part of human interaction. Socialization through sex is not just promiscuity, it is important for a satisfying relationship with the others through intimacy and empathy.

[Droid101]

They offered the birth control in question until the ACA was enacted. Then, all of a sudden, their religion was under attack. I wonder what happened?

[Nanners]

well that was fast. its not a slippery slope so much as a sheer cliff.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/jul/2/religious-leaders-want-exemption-hiring-lgbt-peopl/


Following the recent Hobby Lobby ruling, a group of religious leaders wrote a letter to President Obama on Tuesday asking to be exempt from a pending executive order that would prohibit federal contractors from discriminating against lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender people in hiring practices, reported The Atlantic.

[Godzuki]

Kopf, an appointee of President George H.W. Bush, criticized the high court's ruling last week in the so-called "Hobby Lobby" case.

The decision gave some for-profit businesses the right to deny birth control coverage to their employees if they opposed on religious grounds. The 5-4 decision against a provision of Obamacare was predictably divided in public opinion.

The senior judge made clear his views on Saturday.


"Five male Justices of the Supreme Court, who are all members of the Catholic faith and who each were appointed by a President who hailed from the Republican party, decided that a huge corporation, with thousands of employees and gargantuan revenues, was a 'person' entitled to assert a religious objection to the Affordable Care Act's contraception mandate because that corporation was 'closely held' by family members," he wrote. "To the average person, the result looks stupid and smells worse."

And he went further. "Next term is the time for the Supreme Court to go quiescent-- this term and several past terms has proven that the court is now causing more harm (division) to our democracy than good by deciding hot button cases that the court has the power to avoid. As the kids say, it is time for the Court to stfu."

:bowdown:

[Nanners]

lol

http://thinkprogress.org/health/2014/07/28/3464769/satanists-hobby-lobby-abortion/

[quote]The Supreme Court

[NumberSix]

What's the gigantic problem with people buying their own condoms anyway?