Why does kobe make winning a ring look so easy?

[rule1223]

In the midst of the free agency this summer, where every free agent is trying to join a stacked team to compete, all I can think of is when kobe got gasol mid season and immediately became a favorite and go on to win two straight after reaching the finals. And today were looking at lebron, Melo, love etc looking to join players like rose and noah or harden and Howard in order to just compete... so why is it that kobe can do it with one all star while these so called top 10 players need multiple potential 1st team all nba to compete?

[DMAVS41]

In the midst of the free agency this summer, where every free agent is trying to join a stacked team to compete, all I can think of is when kobe got gasol mid season and immediately became a favorite and go on to win two straight after reaching the finals. And today were looking at lebron, Melo, love etc looking to join players like rose and noah or harden and Howard in order to just compete... so why is it that kobe can do it with one all star while these so called top 10 players need multiple potential 1st team all nba to compete?

Kobe has won 2 rings from 03 through 14....nothing easy about it.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

In the midst of the free agency this summer, where every free agent is trying to join a stacked team to compete, all I can think of is when kobe got gasol mid season and immediately became a favorite and go on to win two straight after reaching the finals. And today were looking at lebron, Melo, love etc looking to join players like rose and noah or harden and Howard in order to just compete... so why is it that kobe can do it with one all star while these so called top 10 players need multiple potential 1st team all nba to compete?

Its not just Lebron. Magic needed Kareem AND Worthy, Bird needed Parish AND Mchale. Duncan needed Parker AND Ginobli. Jordan needed Pippen AND Rodman. It's very rare to win multiple titles with just one other HOF teammate.

[Artillery]

Why?

GOAT coach, most stacked frontcourt in the NBA, weak competition(injured Rockets, injured Magic, chucker Nuggets, injured Celtics, etc). 2009/2010 was a lowpoint for the NBA. You know the Finals are bad when the best offensive player on the opposing team is Hedo Turkoglu.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

Why?

GOAT coach, most stacked frontcourt in the NBA, weak competition(injured Rockets, injured Magic, chucker Nuggets, injured Celtics, etc). 2009/2010 was a lowpoint for the NBA. You know the Finals are bad when the best offensive player on the opposing team is Hedo Turkoglu.

Wasn't 2010 the year Lebron would have been swept out of the Conference Finals as the 1 seed if it wasnt for some lucky shot? :oldlol:

[Artillery]

Wasn't 2010 the year Lebron would have been swept out of the Conference Finals as the 1 seed if it wasnt for some lucky shot? :oldlol:

It's incredibly rare for a one-man team to win an NBA title. Only Hakeem, Duncan, and Dirk have done it in the modern era.

[rule1223]

Kobe has won 2 rings from 03 through 14....nothing easy about it.
Getting a player of gasols calibre is relatively easy and that's all a team has to do to get a with for kobe so I'd say that's pretty easy, imagine if lebron resigned with the heat and he said all he needed was bosh to resign and he'd be able to compete for a ring easily

[T_L_P]

Its not just Lebron. Magic needed Kareem AND Worthy, Bird needed Parish AND Mchale. Duncan needed Parker AND Ginobli. Jordan needed Pippen AND Rodman. It's very rare to win multiple titles with just one other HOF teammate.

The fact that I've seen more than three Kobe stans use this "HoF help" criteria today is getting a little worrying.

Here's a new one: Kobe won every one of his rings with another All-NBA player. Duncan didn't have another All-NBA teammate in 99, 03, 05 or 07 (Parker was one in 14 and Duncan wasn't). Kobe always needed a top 15 player n the league on his team to win, whereas Duncan didn't need a single one for his first four.

This Hall of Fame thing is absurd. Yes he had three Hall of Famers with him in 03, but two of them were role players and the other one was one of the lousiest second options I've ever seen on a title team.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

It's incredibly rare for a one-man team to win an NBA title. Only Hakeem, Duncan, and Dirk have done it in the modern era.

Who said anything about winning a title? We are talking about about being a 1 seed, and nearly getting swept by a "one man team" in the Conference Finals. The same one man who can't get out the first round in the West.

[Nowitness]

The fact that I've seen more than three Kobe stans use this "HoF help" criteria today is getting a little worrying.

Here's a new one: Kobe won every one of his rings with another All-NBA player. Duncan didn't have another All-NBA teammate in 99, 03, 05 or 07 (Parker was one in 14 and Duncan wasn't). Kobe always needed a top 15 player n the league on his team to win, whereas Duncan didn't need a single one for his first four.

This Hall of Fame thing is absurd. Yes he had three Hall of Famers with him in 03, but two of them were role players and the other one was one of the lousiest second options I've ever seen on a title team.

http://cdn3.sbnation.com/imported_assets/1673453/duncanmiss_medium.gif

Kobe would have hit this, he always does.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

The fact that I've seen more than three Kobe stans use this "HoF help" criteria today is getting a little worrying.

Here's a new one: Kobe won every one of his rings with another All-NBA player. Duncan didn't have another All-NBA teammate in 99, 03, 05 or 07 (Parker was one in 14 and Duncan wasn't). Kobe always needed a top 15 player n the league on his team to win, whereas Duncan didn't need a single one for his first four.

This Hall of Fame thing is absurd. Yes he had three Hall of Famers with him in 03, but two of them were role players and the other one was one of the lousiest second options I've ever seen on a title team.

Use current year all stars then :confusedshrug:

Kobe won 5 rings with no more than 1 current all star teammate per title team.

[Artillery]

This Hall of Fame thing is absurd.

Pretty much. The '04 Lakers had four HOFers and they got killed by a Pistons team with no HOFers in the Finals.

[Artillery]

Kobe would have hit this, he always does.

Kobe would have went 6-24 while his 2nd and 3rd options bail his ass out.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

Pretty much. The '04 Lakers had four HOFers and they got killed by a Pistons team with no HOFers in the Finals.

One data point is convincing argument. You must be a scientist.

[T_L_P]

Use current year all stars then :confusedshrug:

Kobe won 5 rings with no more than 1 current all star teammate per title team.

That's a much better way to look at it. I'm not even debating the point of your post, I just think that way of judging help is a little misleading.

You could probably assume Robinson would have been an All-Star in 99, thought it's not certain (he didn't make the All-NBA team).

Manu was an All-Star in 05. Parker was one in 07 and 14.

[Nowitness]

Kobe would have went 6-24 while his 2nd and 3rd options bail his ass out.

All I'm saying is Kobe performed better than any player ever has in 09.

Teams best scorer, passer, rebounder, defender, got steals and blocks, shot insane percentages, bailed his team out and made every needed shot whilst locking the opposition down. Duncan has never even been the best interior defender on his team (Robinson, Horry, Thiago), whilst Kobe has been for all but one year (2004/GP). Second greatest of all time behind Dr. J.

[Artillery]

Use current year all stars then :confusedshrug:

Kobe won 5 rings with no more than 1 current all star teammate per title team.

All-star is useless fan award. Kobe was an all-star this year despite putting up 13 ppg and only playing less than a dozen games. Definitely credible.

[jzek]

It does look easy when you team up with prime Shaq.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

Kobe would have went 6-24 while his 2nd and 3rd options bail his ass out.

Getting "bailed out" by a supporting cast shooting 38%? :oldlol:

[Nowitness]

Getting "bailed out" by a supporting cast shooting 38%? :oldlol:

Preach.

[Artillery]

All I'm saying is Kobe performed better than any player ever has in 09.

Teams best scorer, passer, rebounder, defender, got steals and blocks, shot insane percentages, bailed his team out and made every needed shot whilst locking the opposition down. Duncan has never even been the best interior defender on his team (Robinson, Horry, Thiago), whilst Kobe has been for all but one year (2004/GP). Second greatest of all time behind Dr. J.

Duncan led the Spurs in point/rebounds/assists/blocks through all of the 2003 playoffs. Easily better than '09 Kobe.

[STATUTORY]

Getting "bailed out" by a supporting cast shooting 38%? :oldlol:
bailed out is lebron passing the ball lilke its hot potato and bosh grabbing key rebound and jesus taking the wheel

that's bailed out

[Yao Ming's Foot]

All-star is useless fan award. Kobe was an all-star this year despite putting up 13 ppg and only playing less than a dozen games. Definitely credible.

Once again your one data point trumps the thousands before it. Which teammates of Kobe's should have made the all star team but didn't? If anything Kobe's all star teammate count is overstated due to fan market bias. You don't even think things through. You just try to keep throwing more and more excuses to the wall and hope one sticks. :oldlol: :facepalm

[Artillery]

Getting "bailed out" by a supporting cast shooting 38%? :oldlol:

Duncan's 2nd option shot 29% in games 6 and 7 of the '13 Finals. TD probably wishes he had someone as reliable as Pau out there instead of that French chucker.

[Shih508]

David Stern!

[Artillery]

Once again your one data point trumps the thousands before it. Which teammates of Kobe's should have made the all star team but didn't? If anything Kobe's all star teammate count is overstated due to fan market bias. You don't even think things through. You just try to keep throwing more and more excuses to the wall and hope one sticks. :oldlol: :facepalm

13 ppg on poor efficiency while not even showing up for 75% games = all-star. That one fact alone is damning enough. All-NBA selections are more reliable than this shit.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

Duncan's 2nd option shot 29% in games 6 and 7 of the '13 Finals. TD probably wishes he had someone as reliable as Pau out there instead of that French chucker.

Kawaii Leonard and Manu Ginobli were good for about 20 a piece at 48% shooting in Game 7 2013. :facepalm

[mehyaM24]

Getting "bailed out" by a supporting cast shooting 38%? :oldlol:

6/24 = 25%

kobe stans showing their intelligence again :oldlol:

[Yao Ming's Foot]

13 ppg on poor efficiency while not even showing up for 75% games = all-star. That one fact alone is damning enough. All-NBA selections are more reliable than this shit.

I agree. No player has more all nba awards than Kobe Bryant btw. :oldlol:

[ArbitraryWater]

One data point is convincing argument. You must be a scientist.

"One data point" lmfao and you're using 2 for 2009 & 2010? Ahhh okay

[Yao Ming's Foot]

6/24 = 25%

kobe stans showing their intelligence again :oldlol:

Solid reading comprehension. :facepalm

Gasol 6-16
Artest 7-18

14-34 = 38%

[dreamwarrior]

The Lakers are a storied franchise. The Heat are still basically an expansion team who don't know wtf they're doing.

[Hey Yo]

The refs made it look easy in Game 7 2010

Lakers with 20 4th quarter FTA.

Celtics 6

[mehyaM24]

Solid reading comprehension. :facepalm

Gasol 6-16
Artest 7-18

14-34 = 38%

gasol's 37% > kobe's 25%
artest's 38% > kobe's 25%
(aka bailed out)
are kobe fans reallllly this slow? :wtf:

[Hey Yo]

Who's that listed as top performer of game 7 for LA?

http://espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=300617013

[Artillery]

Who's that listed as top performer of game 7 for LA?

http://espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=300617013

No wonder Gasol wants to leave LA. Back-breaking work carrying Kobe all these years.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

gasol's 37% > kobe's 25%
artest's 38% > kobe's 25%
(aka bailed out)
are kobe fans reallllly this slow? :wtf:

My bad I thought this was getting bailed out

07 Championship winning game

Duncan 4-15
Parker 10-14

05 Championship winning game

Duncan 10-27
Ginobli 8-13

12 Championship winning game

Lebron 9-19
Bosh/Wade 16-26

[Ne 1]

No wonder Gasol wants to leave LA. Back-breaking work carrying Kobe all these years.
ESPN in 2001 "Kobe is the best all around player in the league." Is that credible too or is ESPn only credible when it suits your agenda.

[DMAVS41]

My bad I thought this was getting bailed out

07 Championship winning game

Duncan 4-15
Parker 10-14

05 Championship winning game

Duncan 10-27
Ginobli 8-13

12 Championship winning game

Lebron 9-19
Bosh/Wade 16-26


Please don't compare game 4 of a sweep to game 7 with your team in a dogfight. Comparing the 07 finals and 10 finals is just stupid.

Kobe did not make anything about winning as the best player on his team easy.

Also, people need to stop comparing teams across years like they play the same competition. The 08 Lakers, for example, would have won the title in 07 if they made the finals...

Kobe had the best help out of any star in 09 for sure. They were favored in each series and lucked out with the KG injury. It's not like the 09 Lakers beat a team remotely as good as the 11 Mavs, 12, Heat, or 14 Spurs.

The 10 Lakers was a really impressive run beating the Suns and then a very good to great Celtics team...but there was nothing easy about it. A bounce of the ball on one or two plays in game 7 and the Celtics win. It was a total toss up series and game 7.

Again...nothing easy about it.

Winning 2 titles in 12 years is not evidence of it being easy...

[Yao Ming's Foot]

Please don't compare game 4 of a sweep to game 7 with your team in a dogfight. Comparing the 07 finals and 10 finals is just stupid.

Kobe did not make anything about winning as the best player on his team easy.

Also, people need to stop comparing teams across years like they play the same competition. The 08 Lakers, for example, would have won the title in 07 if they made the finals...

Kobe had the best help out of any star in 09 for sure. They were favored in each series and lucked out with the KG injury. It's not like the 09 Lakers beat a team remotely as good as the 11 Mavs, 12, Heat, or 14 Spurs.

The 10 Lakers was a really impressive run beating the Suns and then a very good to great Celtics team...but there was nothing easy about it. A bounce of the ball on one or two plays in game 7 and the Celtics win. It was a total toss up series and game 7.

Again...nothing easy about it.

Winning 2 titles in 12 years is not evidence of it being easy...

The 09 Magic had a higher SRS than both the 11 Mavs and 12 Heat. The fact that you dismiss them sans any objective evidence just proves how easy Kobe made it look when he crushed them in 5 games . :confusedshrug:

[DMAVS41]

The 09 Magic had a higher SRS than both the 11 Mavs and 12 Heat. The fact that you dismiss them sans any objective evidence just proves how easy Kobe made it look when he crushed them in 5 games . :confusedshrug:


I don't want to go into an in depth analysis about the 09 Magic.

You really want that?

Are you actually saying that the 09 Magic were as good as the 11 Mavs or 12 Heat or 14 Spurs? Please answer.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

I don't want to go into an in depth analysis about the 09 Magic.

You really want that?

Are you actually saying that the 09 Magic were as good as the 11 Mavs or 12 Heat or 14 Spurs? Please answer.

Show me any objective evidence that shows the 09 Magic were not "remotely as good" as the 11 Mavs or 12 Heat....

:confusedshrug:

[DMAVS41]

Show me any objective evidence that shows the 09 Magic were not "remotely as good" as the 11 Mavs or 12 Heat....

:confusedshrug:

I'm asking you if you are taking that position. If you are taking the position that the 11 Mavs, 12 Heat, and 14 Spurs were not clearly better teams than the 09 Magic...then I'll argue it with you.

But I'd rather not waste my time on something that I'd imagine virtually nobody here would refute.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

I'm asking you if you are taking that position. If you are taking the position that the 11 Mavs, 12 Heat, and 14 Spurs were not clearly better teams than the 09 Magic...then I'll argue it with you.

But I'd rather not waste my time on something that I'd imagine virtually nobody here would refute.

I'm asking you to support your claims. How many more times do I need to say it?

[jstern]

The not having a stack team is an argument that you never heard back when Kobe was winning championships, since his teams usually had more talent than the other teams.

Now the Kobe stans are pushing this new agenda that Kobe has overcome these intense odds, going up against the Orlando Magic, and the 4th seeded Boston Celtics.

Meanwhile he was struggling shooting 40% against such unremarkable teams, with his teams having to bail him out.

I love Kobe, but his stans just make people show Kobe's flaws.

[BlackWhiteGreen]

All of this... and Kobe still only has 3 rings if Garnett never injures his knee.

[mehyaM24]

My bad I thought

yup. what kobe fans FAIL to do :oldlol:

[DMAVS41]

I'm asking you to support your claims. How many more times do I need to say it?

And I'm asking why I need to when it's blatantly obvious and you know you agree with me.

Support your claim that the Magic were as good as the 11 Mavs, 12 Heat, and 14 Spurs.

Considering my position is the most reasonable...I'll await your evidence that a team with an injured Nelson forced to run with Alston at point while Gortat was essentially a non factor...that like a couple plays away from losing in the 2nd round to a celtics team without KG.

Honestly my position is the default position. The teams i listed were champs and proved what they could do.

If you want the Magic to be in their class....defend your claim.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

And I'm asking why I need to when it's blatantly obvious and you know you agree with me.

Support your claim that the Magic were as good as the 11 Mavs, 12 Heat, and 14 Spurs.

Considering my position is the most reasonable...I'll await your evidence that a team with an injured Nelson forced to run with Alston at point while Gortat was essentially a non factor...that like a couple plays away from losing in the 2nd round to a celtics team without KG.

Honestly my position is the default position. The teams i listed were champs and proved what they could do.

If you want the Magic to be in their class....defend your claim.

:oldlol:

Such a clown.

You could have just said there is no objective evidence that the 09 Magic were "not remotely as good as the 11 Mavs and 12 Heat" and saved yourself the embarrassment.

[DMAVS41]

:oldlol:

Such a clown.

You could have just said there is no objective evidence that the 09 Magic were "not remotely as good as the 11 Mavs and 12 Heat" and saved yourself the embarrassment.

LOL

You made a claim as well. Mine is clearly the default position.

Guess what. When a team like the 11 Mavs goes 16-5 in the playoffs against the competition they faced...they are the default position against a team like the 09 Magic.

Please offer your evidence.

Again, we all know mine is the default position. You get just concede that a team heavily relying on Alston and nearly losing to the Celtics without KG...isn't on par with the champions I listed.

LOL ...you are such a clown.

Sorry your idol hasn't done shit for a while and you have to make absurd threads like this. Where Kobe has the GOAT coach and was the favorite in every series for 4 straight years....yet only wins 2 titles...and has won 2 titles in the last 12 years. Yep...so easy.

[mehyaM24]

Show me any objective evidence that shows the 09 Magic were not "remotely as good" as the 11 Mavs or 12 Heat....

:confusedshrug:

the burden of proof is on you

you're the genius that brought up the 09 magic

:hammerhead:

[Yao Ming's Foot]

LOL

You made a claim as well. Mine is clearly the default position.

Guess what. When a team like the 11 Mavs goes 16-5 in the playoffs against the competition they faced...they are the default position against a team like the 09 Magic.

Please offer your evidence.

Again, we all know mine is the default position. You get just concede that a team heavily relying on Alston and nearly losing to the Celtics without KG...isn't on par with the champions I listed.

LOL ...you are such a clown.

Sorry your idol hasn't done shit for a while and you have to make absurd threads like this. Where Kobe has the GOAT coach and was the favorite in every series for 4 straight years....yet only wins 2 titles...and has won 2 titles in the last 12 years. Yep...so easy.


This is now your 4th post whining why you should not be asked to support a baseless claim because it apparently is "the default position".

:roll:

If the argument is so easy for you to win, why not do so? Its a layup. Its so easy. Show me how you are right for once.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

the burden of proof is on you

you're the genius that brought up the 09 magic

:hammerhead:




Kobe had the best help out of any star in 09 for sure. They were favored in each series and lucked out with the KG injury. It's not like the 09 Lakers beat a team remotely as good as the 11 Mavs, 12, Heat, or 14 Spurs.
.

:facepalm

[DMAVS41]

This is now your 4th post whining why you should not be asked to support a baseless claim because it apparently is "the default position".

:roll:

If the argument is so easy for you to win, why not do so? Its a layup. Its so easy. Show me how you are right for once.

For once?

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[Yao Ming's Foot]

For once?

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

5th

[DMAVS41]

:facepalm

And you are refuting that.

Show me why we should put the 09 Magic on the level of those teams?

You make it sound like I'm saying some controversial...the entire basketball community would agree with me here...and, far more importantly than that...you won't be able to prove your claim.

Hence you are dancing around acting like that Magic team that quite frankly should have lost in 6 to the KG less Celtics and then got murked by the Lakers...is on par with 3 champions.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

And you are refuting that.

Show me why we should put the 09 Magic on the level of those teams?

You make it sound like I'm saying some controversial...the entire basketball community would agree with me here...and, far more importantly than that...you won't be able to prove your claim.

Hence you are dancing around acting like that Magic team that quite frankly should have lost in 6 to the KG less Celtics and then got murked by the Lakers...is on par with 3 champions.

My opinion is based on the most popular team ranking statistics known to the basketball community.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=39

What objective data is your opinion based on?

[DMAVS41]

5th

Uhhh...I've given you reasons.

Alston.

Heavy reliance on Lewis (41 mpg)

Hardly any depth at all. They basically went 7 deep all playoffs with Nelson hurt and not ready in the finals. Gortat only played 11 mpg. Their best player, Howard, is not reliable or consistent as a championship leader.

Reddick, their 7th man, really wasn't good yet. His defense was poor and he was a 6/2/1 player in the regular season and a 6/1/2 player in the playoffs on average efficiency.

They had no depth and relied heavily on average players such as Reddick, Alston, and Pietrus. And their best player isn't a championsip leader.

I could go on...

Again...explain to me why a Magic team with no depth that almost lost to the KG less Celtics....should be put on par with the 11 Mavs, 12 Heat, and 14 Spurs.

:lol :lol :lol :lol

[Yao Ming's Foot]

Uhhh...I've given you reasons.

Alston.

Heavy reliance on Lewis (41 mpg)

Hardly any depth at all. They basically went 7 deep all playoffs with Nelson hurt and not ready in the finals. Gortat only played 11 mpg. Their best player, Howard, is not reliable or consistent as a championship leader.

Reddick, their 7th man, really wasn't good yet. His defense was poor and he was a 6/2/1 player in the regular season and a 6/1/2 player in the playoffs on average efficiency.

They had no depth and relied heavily on average players such as Reddick, Alston, and Pietrus. And their best player isn't a championsip leader.

I could go on...

Again...explain to me why a Magic team with no depth that almost lost to the KG less Celtics....should be put on par with the 11 Mavs, 12 Heat, and 14 Spurs.

:lol :lol :lol :lol

"No depth" and "heavy reliance on average players" applies to 100% of Kobe's championship teams

They also "almost lost" 4 out of 5 title runs.

None of that is objective data by the way. Its desperately grasping for straws.

[DMAVS41]

My opinion is based on the most popular team ranking statistics known to the basketball community.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=39

What objective data is your opinion based on?

See above for starters.

Isn't that based on the regular season? And doesn't that skew towards the teams playing in weaker conferences against weaker competition.

And, even worse for the 09 Magic, they lost their starting pg in Nelson who played 31 mpg. Those ratings don't take that into account...the Magic team of the regular season was drastically different actually. Alston only played 29 games...and Reddick was the 10th man in the regular season and was the 7th man in the playoffs.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

See above for starters.

Isn't that based on the regular season? And doesn't that skew towards the teams playing in weaker conferences against weaker competition.

And, even worse for the 09 Magic, they lost their starting pg in Nelson who played 31 mpg. Those ratings don't take that into account...the Magic team of the regular season was drastically different actually. Alston only played 29 games...and Reddick was the 10th man in the regular season and was the 7th man in the playoffs.

Do you have a better source for a statistically based team ranking system? I'm all ears.

Why are you hyper focusing on the 7th man? Who exactly is tearing it up as the 7th man for the Mavs and Heat? :oldlol:

[DMAVS41]

"No depth" and "heavy reliance on average players" applies to 100% of Kobe's championship teams

They also "almost lost" 4 out of 5 title runs.

None of that is objective data by the way. Its desperately grasping for straws.

Actually it is objective...the magic had no depth in the playoffs. unless you count JJ Reddick and his bad defense and poor play as your 7th man to be indicative of solid depth.

And we aren't comparing the Magic to the Lakers. Total red herring.

We are comparing the Magic to the 11 Mavs, 12 Heat, and 14 Spurs.

Of course you are going off of regular season stats.

Where Nelson was a 17/3/5 61% TS player and played 31 mpg in the regular season

Where Nelson was a 4/1/3 38% TS player and played 18 mpg in the playoffs


LOL...you done yet? Yep...lets pretend that the regular season was a good indicator of the Magic team in the playoffs.

The bold just raped you mate...:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

[pauk]

Maybe during his first 3 ones with Shaq, hell in his 1st championship in the Finals he missed one game and he averaged 15 ppg @ 36% FG that Finals, it didnt matter... Shaq then left and during those 11 years that passed he won only 2, this time as the man, nothing easy about that...

[DMAVS41]

Do you have a better source for a statistically based team ranking system? I'm all ears.

Why are you hyper focusing on the 7th man? Who exactly is tearing it up as the 7th man for the Mavs and Heat? :oldlol:

The Magic weren't great at the top either. No depth...and their championship first option quite frankly wasn't one.

Anyway...check the bold above.

You can concede any time...

[DMAVS41]

Wasn't Redick injured during the Cavs series and wasn't really healthy in the finals?

I don't remember the actual details though...

[Yao Ming's Foot]

The Magic weren't great at the top either. No depth...and their championship first option quite frankly wasn't one.

Anyway...check the bold above.

You can concede any time...

The Magic were not built on the guy they just waived this past week. They were built on elite defense and 3 point shooting. Do you forget how they humiliated Lebron already?

Once again since you are harping on 7th man.... who exactly is the 7th man on the 11 Mavs and 12 Heat that just completely trumps JJ Reddick. :roll:

[IllegalD]

Kobe > Duncan >>> Dirk.

/end thread.

[DMAVS41]

The Magic were not built on the guy they just waived this past week. They were built on elite defense and 3 point shooting. Do you forget how they humiliated Lebron already?

Once again since you are harping on 7th man.... who exactly is the 7th man on the 11 Mavs and 12 Heat that just completely trumps JJ Reddick. :roll:

Stop ignoring the post.

They lost their starting pg who was having a great regular season...when you actually have to beat quality teams...that matters.

again...it's not just the depth. they lost their starting pg, relied heavily on Lewis/Hedo, Howard isn't a reliable championship first option or leader...and they almost lost to a KG less Celtics team.

You have provided nothing on your side...well, other than SRS which makes no sense here as the Magic were a completely different team in the playoffs...much like the Mavs actually...which is often the case.

As for the Mavs? I'd take Peja, Haywood, and Stevenson over 09 Redick.

LOL...will you just concede?

We all know you don't actually think the 09 Magic were better than the 14 Spurs.

And Nelson did matter. They were 32-10 with him and 27 and 13 without him...that is a 63 win pace with him playing...

[IllegalD]

Maybe during his first 3 ones with Shaq, hell in his 1st championship in the Finals he missed one game and he averaged 15 ppg @ 36% FG that Finals, it didnt matter... Shaq then left and during those 11 years that passed he won only 2, this time as the man, nothing easy about that...

Yet it only took him 1 finals loss post-Shaq to win those two.

LeBron meanwhile already has 3 finals losses for his 2 rings.

EASY, bebe. E ZEEEEEE :bowdown:

[Yao Ming's Foot]

Stop ignoring the post.

They lost their starting pg who was having a great regular season...when you actually have to beat quality teams...that matters.

again...it's not just the depth. they lost their starting pg, relied heavily on Lewis/Hedo, Howard isn't a reliable championship first option or leader...and they almost lost to a KG less Celtics team.

You have provided nothing on your side...well, other than SRS which makes no sense here as the Magic were a completely different team in the playoffs...much like the Mavs actually...which is often the case.

As for the Mavs? I'd take Peja, Haywood, and Stevenson over 09 Redick.

LOL...will you just concede?

We all know you don't actually think the 09 Magic were better than the 14 Spurs.

Jameer Nelson only played 42 games in the 09 regular season. I will "concede" though since you are obviously mentally deranged. I will pray for you.

[DMAVS41]

Jameer Nelson only played 42 games in the 09 regular season. I will "concede" though since you are obviously mentally deranged. I will pray for you.

And they went 32-10 vs 27-13 without....so it mattered...by roughly 7 to 8 games over the course of a full season.

And that doesn't even do it justice because it's far easier to overcome injuries in the regular seaosn vs the playoffs.

You combine no Nelson, no depth, lack of reliable championship first option, and then just the evidence of the results like them almost losing to the KG less Celtics...and getting murked by the Lakers.

Yea...it's blatantly obvious that the 09 Magic were not on par with the likes of the 11 Mavs, 12 Heat, and 14 Spurs.

But keep thinking that the SRS in the regular season is what matters when evaluating how good a team is in the playoffs when they aren't remotely the same team.

[tpols]

All Kobe needed was two all star level big men to compete for not only rings but dynasties.. at the end of his prime too. Kobe playing with Pau his whole career has 4 or 5 FMVPs..

[DMAVS41]

All Kobe needed was two all star level big men to compete for not only rings but dynasties.. at the end of his prime too. Kobe playing with Pau his whole career has 4 or 5 FMVPs..

Depends on the rest of the team.

What years though are we talking about?

Because Kobe isn't winning shit from 97 through 05 with a player like Gasol at his 2nd option.

06 and 07 are possible, but I wouldn't even call them likely....then we actually saw the rest.

And that is even giving Kobe...Gasol every year of his career.

So what years do they win?

[kennethgriffin]

Kobe has won 2 rings from 03 through 14....nothing easy about it.

actually more often than not when kobe has a fair chance. he wins

1997 - benched/shit coach
1998 - benched/shit coach
1999 - lockout year/shit coach
2000 - significant minutes/great coach = championship
2001 - significant minutes/great coach = championship
2002 - significant minutes/great coach = championship
2003 - shoulder/knee injury in playoffs (colorago surgery/incident )
2004 - significant minutes/great coach = nba finals
2005 - injured/shit coach/11 new players
2006 - kwame/smush
2007 - kwame/smush
2008 - significant minutes/great coach = mvp/ nba finals
2009 - significant minutes/great coach = champions
2010 - significant minutes/great coach = champions
2011 - injured/needed knee surgery
2012 - bad coach/gasol sucks
2013 - bad coach/howard quites on team, nash injured all year, gasol injured, kobe achilles
2014 - kobe achilles recovery/broken leg/sh*t team/bad coach


in the end... the only times kobe had a fair chance where he had a great coach and a healthy season between him and his team mates ( having atleast 1 other good team mate).. hes either made the finals or won the title every single time

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Depends on the rest of the team.

What years though are we talking about?

Because Kobe isn't winning shit from 97 through 05 with a player like Gasol at his 2nd option.

06 and 07 are possible, but I wouldn't even call them likely....then we actually saw the rest.

And that is even giving Kobe...Gasol every year of his career.

So what years do they win?

Not directed at me...but LA probably wins in 2006 and 2007. Their best opportunity to win titles IMO.

The 2006 Heat were a one-man show in the finals and the 2007 Spurs, while great, were the weakest Spurs team to win a title (not only that, but historically, Kobe plays well against them).

Of course, this is assuming the Lakers still have Jackson..

[ArbitraryWater]

All Kobe needed was two all star level big men to compete but dynasties.. at the end of his prime too. Kobe playing with Pau his whole career has 4 or 5 FMVPs..

:roll:

And no, he didn't compete for a dynasty...

[PickernRoller]

Ming trashing these clowns....:oldlol: :oldlol:

Anyway on topic: Kobe is that good.

[tpols]

Depends on the rest of the team.

What years though are we talking about?

Because Kobe isn't winning shit from 97 through 05 with a player like Gasol at his 2nd option.

06 and 07 are possible, but I wouldn't even call them likely....then we actually saw the rest.

And that is even giving Kobe...Gasol every year of his career.

So what years do they win?

Depends where they are and who else is on the team as well.. say Kobe and Pau are out east hypothetically on the hornets.. playing teams like the Nets, sixers, pistons every year. Theyd be locks to make the Finals 01, 02, and 03.

Kobe/Pau could take any early 2000s spurs team.. they took the veteran version and shitted on them before gino and parker blew up. The only place theyd run into trouble with is Shaq and the Lakers but if shaq doesnt have a tmac level player on his team, hes simply never beating the spurs.


The spurs used to crush LA before Kobe came into his own. They had twin tower big men rock to Shaq's scissors. Kobe would be like paper.. he cant do anything to stop a shaq led team, but he sure as hell can do a lot to stop a duncan led one. So if the hornets saw the spurs in the finals a few times? Yea thered be a good shot at rings.

Then there's 06, 07, 09, and 10 as possibilities as well.. it would be 4 FMVPs at a minimum really.

[tpols]

:roll:

And no, he didn't compete for a dynasty...

3 finals and back to back championships isnt competing for a dynasty ?? :biggums: :lol

[DMAVS41]

Not directed at me...but LA probably wins in 2006 and 2007. Their best chances IMO.

The 2006 Heat were a one-man show in the finals and the 2007 Spurs, while great, were the weakest Spurs team to win a title (not only that, but historically, Kobe plays well against them).

Of course, this is assuming the Lakers still have Jackson..

It's their only chances looking at it...06 Shaq was still very good. he's under-rated here...definitely every bit as good as Gasol would be.

And that is if they get by one or both of the 06 Mavs or 06 Spurs...two damn good teams.

I just can't see giving Kobe/Gasol the title in 06. A chance? Sure, but at best it would be 50/50.


07 they likely win, but again it's not a lock. Especially if the Mavs don't end up playing the Warriors in round 1 and the Lakers have to play them. And the Spurs weren't as good as 05 and 06...they were still very good and Manu was healthy.

In a hypothetical like this...I see no reason to give them the title both years.

The most reasonable conclusion is that Kobe would be a 3 time champion and finals mvp playing with Gasol as his 2nd best player each year...not 5.

[DMAVS41]

Depends where they are and who else is on the team as well.. say Kobe and Pau are out east hypothetically on the hornets.. playing teams like the Nets, sixers, pistons every year. Theyd be locks to make the Finals 01, 02, and 03.

Kobe/Pau could take any early 2000s spurs team.. they took the veteran version and shitted on them before gino and parker blew up. The only place theyd run into trouble with is Shaq and the Lakers but if shaq doesnt have a tmac level player on his team, hes simply never beating the spurs.


The spurs used to crush LA before Kobe came into his own. They had twin tower big men rock to Shaq's scissors. Kobe would be like paper.. he cant do anything to stop a shaq led team, but he sure as hell can do a lot to stop a duncan led one. So if the hornets saw the spurs in the finals a few times? Yea thered be a good shot at rings.

Then there's 06, 07, 09, and 10 as possibilities as well.. it would be 4 FMVPs at a minimum really.

Total bullshit.

It doesn't matter if they play in the East.

Again...no chance until 06.

In 06 they'd have to beat the Heat and Mavs...not a lock

07 they'd have to beat the Spurs...again...not a lock.

It's a max of 3fmvp...even if you put them in the East.

In a hypothetical like this...you don't just get to give them a title in 06 and 07...especially given the evidence.

I'll give him 1...and that is being generous. Kobe in 06 choked away a 3-1 series lead and quit on his team in a game 7. Not exactly championship leadership.

In 07 the Spurs were better than they were in 08....and they were healthy...and they had both Bowen and Manu to throw at Kobe.


The East thing is a red herring as doing that for any number of players and teams gets them far greater results. The Mavs probably win the ****ing title in 07 if they played in the East.

[PickernRoller]

Total bullshit.



You still arguing about Kobe after being trashed for so long in this forum - it's been years now. You never learn I guess. :lol :lol Kobe deep in your head.

[ArbitraryWater]

3 finals and back to back championships isnt competing for a dynasty ?? :biggums: :lol

No :lol That team is far frome dynasty... 3-peat would be one, but they didn't look to very dominant either.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

It's their only chances looking at it...06 Shaq was still very good. he's under-rated here...definitely every bit as good as Gasol would be.

And that is if they get by one or both of the 06 Mavs or 06 Spurs...two damn good teams.

I just can't see giving Kobe/Gasol the title in 06. A chance? Sure, but at best it would be 50/50.


07 they likely win, but again it's not a lock. Especially if the Mavs don't end up playing the Warriors in round 1 and the Lakers have to play them. And the Spurs weren't as good as 05 and 06...they were still very good and Manu was healthy.

In a hypothetical like this...I see no reason to give them the title both years.

The most reasonable conclusion is that Kobe would be a 3 time champion and finals mvp playing with Gasol as his 2nd best player each year...not 5.

Neither are locks. Agreed.

I feel that 2006 and 2007 Kobe was the best version of himself...dude just played with crap. You put Gasol in LA alongside THAT Kobe and the they'd be very dangerous.

Gasol/Odom front-line allows Kobe to become more of a playmaker and the triangle-offense to be at its finest.

[tpols]

Total bullshit.

It doesn't matter if they play in the East.

Again...no chance until 06.

In 06 they'd have to beat the Heat and Mavs...not a lock

07 they'd have to beat the Spurs...again...not a lock.

It's a max of 3fmvp...even if you put them in the East.

In a hypothetical like this...you don't just get to give them a title in 06 and 07...especially given the evidence.

I'll give him 1...and that is being generous. Kobe in 06 choked away a 3-1 series lead and quit on his team in a game 7. Not exactly championship leadership.

In 07 the Spurs were better than they were in 08....and they were healthy...and they had both Bowen and Manu to throw at Kobe.


The East thing is a red herring as doing that for any number of players and teams gets them far greater results. The Mavs probably win the ****ing title in 07 if they played in the East.

Anyone could play in the east and make the finals.. its true..:lol Thats where kobe wouldve been if not for LA. JKidd was dragging journeyman there.. took spurs to a competitive 6 games in the Finals.

If Kidd/Kittles/Martin can compete with that so can Kobe/Pau/and any filler for support.


To say 06 and before is impossible is bullshit my dude.. out east it'd be finals almost every year(you cant refute this at all btw) and there's no way you can say 01 kobe/pau in the finals vs say, the spurs if they were to make it, couldnt win. The odds would actually go in kobe and pau's favor.



So, eh.. I might have to bump that to 5 FMVPs at a minimum.. thanks for making me reconsider my position. :cheers:

[IllegalD]

:roll:

And no, he didn't compete for a dynasty...

2000-2010

7 Finals, 5 championships (threepeat + 3 more consecutive trips to the finals)

"Not a dynasty"... :wtf:

:roll:

[Doctor Rivers]

because he can speak Portuguese: https://twitter.com/kobebryant/status/485226421325819904

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Anyone could play in the east and make the finals.. its true..:lol Thats where kobe wouldve been if not for LA. JKidd was dragging journeyman there.. took spurs to a competitive 6 games in the Finals.

If Kidd/Kittles/Martin can compete with that so can Kobe/Pau/and any filler for support.


To say 06 and before is impossible is bullshit my dude.. out east it'd be finals almost every year(you cant refute this at all btw) and there's no way you can say 01 kobe/pau in the finals vs say, the spurs if they were to make it, couldnt win. The odds would actually go in kobe and pau's favor.



So, eh.. I might have to bump that to 5 FMVPs at a minimum.. thanks for making me reconsider my position. :cheers:

Who are you giving Shaq? Dude isn't winning by himself no more than Kobe is without Gasol and on a franchise like Charlotte.. :oldlol:

You replace Kobe with TMac/Iverson/Carter, and you'd be hard-pressed to pick against LA

[DMAVS41]

Anyone could play in the east and make the finals.. its true..:lol Thats where kobe wouldve been if not for LA. JKidd was dragging journeyman there.. took spurs to a competitive 6 games in the Finals.

If Kidd/Kittles/Martin can compete with that so can Kobe/Pau/and any filler for support.


To say 06 and before is impossible is bullshit my dude.. out east it'd be finals almost every year(you cant refute this at all btw) and there's no way you can say 01 kobe/pau in the finals vs say, the spurs if they were to make it, couldnt win. The odds would actually go in kobe and pau's favor.



So, eh.. I might have to bump that to 5 FMVPs at a minimum.. thanks for making me reconsider my position. :cheers:

Kobe wasn't good enough...on any team...to be the best player on the team that wins the title from 97 through 00.

He's not beating Shaq in 01
Not beating Shaq or Kings in 02
How is he beating the 03 Spurs with Gasol when he lost with Shaq
Not beating the 04 Pistons
Not beating the 05 Spurs (best version)

Then 06 and 07 are toss ups and we know the rest.

Please tell me which years Kobe is wining as the best player on a team from 97 through 05 with Pau Gasol as his 2nd best player????? Not happening...


Dude...how can you type the bold?????? Kobe, with Shaq...and Phil Jackson....lost to that same Spurs team. How is Kobe/Pau and filler going to yield better results than Kobe/Shaq with PJ coaching. Keep in mind that Shaq put up...25/14/4 59% TS against the Spurs in 03. LOL

You Kobe fans always do this. You make these bold claims of 5 titles and 5 finals mvp's...but when we ask what years...you go ghost. And want us to just hand out titles in 06 and 07 when both of those years would have absolutely not been locks....especially 06. The 06 Mavs, Spurs, and Heat are 3 teams I'd take over a Kobe/Gasol team.

Do you understand math? Lets say they luck out in 06 and only have to play the Mavs and Heat. Lets say they are 50/50 to win each series. So it's the essential coinflip. And what are the odds of winning two coinflips in a row? 25%...if they had to beat all 3 of them? It's 12.5% chance....so at best...they have a 25% chance to win in 06....and that isn't good enough to just give them the title. Even if you give them 60% in each series...it's still only 36%.

[HOoopCityJones]

Kobe wasn't good enough...on any team...to be the best player on the team that wins the title from 97 through 00.

He's not beating Shaq in 01
Not beating Shaq or Kings in 02
How is he beating the 03 Spurs with Gasol when he lost with Shaq
Not beating the 04 Pistons
Not beating the 05 Spurs (best version)

Then 06 and 07 are toss ups and we know the rest.

Please tell me which years Kobe is wining as the best player on a team from 97 through 05 with Pau Gasol as his 2nd best player????? Not happening...

None of all of this bs you type will ever make Dirk better than Kobe, bro.

Get over it.


Only claim to fame your boy has is beating a shrinking LBJ in a Final, and we're all pretty sure it's because Bron didn't want Wade to get an FMVP over him.

All this adjusting and twisting shit around to fit your agenda doesn't mean shit in the long run, there are the all-time greats , then there is the back 12. Dirk is 13th is this scenario.

Deuces.

[DMAVS41]

None of all of this bs you type will ever make Dirk better than Kobe, bro.

Get over it.


Only claim to fame your boy has is beating a shrinking LBJ in a Final, and we're all pretty sure it's because Bron didn't want Wade to get an FMVP over him.

All this adjusting and twisting shit around to fit your agenda doesn't mean shit in the long run, there are the all-time greats , then there is the back 12. Dirk is 13th is this scenario.

Deuces.

This isn't a response...and I'm not changing anything. It's you Kobe fans claiming he'd win titles with Gasol. LOL

And I ask again. What years from 97 through 05 is Kobe winning a title with Gasol as his 2nd best player?

[HOoopCityJones]

This isn't a response...and I'm not changing anything. It's you Kobe fans claiming he'd win titles with Gasol. LOL

And I ask again. What years from 97 through 05 is Kobe winning a title with Gasol as his 2nd best player?

Are you insane? :biggums:

You're saying Gasol and Kobe couldn't win together despite both being in the peak of their prime and being on the same Team for a longer period of time, thus better chemistry?

Let's get one thing straight , the only reason Pau and Kobe haven't been competing the last few years is because they don't have the luxury of consistency at the Coaching position, plus age/injuries and questionable Front Office moves.

You really think these guys wouldn't be able to compete if they had Phil or Pop their entire career or a Top tier Coach like Carlisle?

Does anyone on this entire forum take what you barf up seriously aside from stupid ass Heat fans who get a boner every time you discredit Kobe with one of your thundercunt monologues?


Kobe + Gasol duo competes in any season post 2003. For titles.

[ZaaaaaH]

Kobe was that DAM good

[Artillery]

Anyone could play in the east and make the finals.. its true..:lol Thats where kobe wouldve been if not for LA. JKidd was dragging journeyman there.. took spurs to a competitive 6 games in the Finals.

If Kidd/Kittles/Martin can compete with that so can Kobe/Pau/and any filler for support.

Horrible logic here. Yao-less Rockets led by Aaron Brooks took the '09 Lakers to seven games. Just about any good title team would trash those Lakers if they had that much trouble with a Houston team full of scrubs.

[Anaximandro1]

Kobe with Pau in the late 90s - early 2000s ... are you kidding me ??


Spurs 5 - Lakers 0

Worst case scenario -> Spurs 4 - Lakers 1


Playoffs 2002


H2H

prime Duncan 29.0 pt, 17.2 rb, 4.6 as, 3.2 blk TS 51.7

prime Shaq 21.4 pt, 12.2 rb, 3.2 as, 3.0 blk TS 48.7


Robinson only played 74 minutes

Playoffs 2008

H2H

32 year Duncan 22.4 pt, 17.4 rb, 4.8 as, 2.0 blk TS 46.5

prime Pau Gasol 13.2 pt, 9.6 rb, 3.6 as, 1.6 blk TS 47.3


BTW 2005 - 2007 Spurs would have destroyed the 2008 Lakers. Simple as that.


2008 -> The Spurs were old. Ginobili suffered a left ankle injury ... they slept on the plane after winning G7 in NO while the Lakers were well rested.

Spurs blew a 20 point lead in G1 and G5 in LA ... they missed a couple of gamewinners in G1 and G4 ...

Duncan,Bowen,Horry,Finley,Barry run out of gas at the end .... everything that could go wrong went wrong.

[DMAVS41]

Are you insane? :biggums:

You're saying Gasol and Kobe couldn't win together despite both being in the peak of their prime and being on the same Team for a longer period of time, thus better chemistry?

Let's get one thing straight , the only reason Pau and Kobe haven't been competing the last few years is because they don't have the luxury of consistency at the Coaching position, plus age/injuries and questionable Front Office moves.

You really think these guys wouldn't be able to compete if they had Phil or Pop their entire career or a Top tier Coach like Carlisle?

Does anyone on this entire forum take what you barf up seriously aside from stupid ass Heat fans who get a boner every time you discredit Kobe with one of your thundercunt monologues?


Kobe + Gasol duo competes in any season post 2003. For titles.

Again...what years?

I know they could compete...but I'm asking what years they win?

Again..97 through 00...Kobe wasn't good enough.

01? They are beating a Shaq led Lakers team? How?
02? Shaq/Kobe with a great team barely got by the 02 Kings...now Kobe/Gasol are beating them?
03? Same thing
04? Kobe is going to magically play great against the 04 Pistons?
05? Best Spurs team ever...and the Pistons were great again. No way they beat both of them.

It's absurd.

[BlackWhiteGreen]

Nobody willing to counter the fact that Garnett's injury is the only reason Kobe has more than 3 rings?