What s the point of bringing team accomplishments when comparing players?

[livinglegend]

If you want to compare players, post their individual accomplishments and stats. Why bring the teams? If you want to compare teams, then bring the championships and etc. Championships are won by teams, not by a single, individual player.

[TheMarkMadsen]

Bran stans back in 2010 mode.

[livinglegend]

Bran stans back in 2010 mode.
:facepalm I m not a Lebron stan or fan.

[bdreason]

Because the point of playing the game is to win. There are plenty of things that don't show up on the stat sheet that lead to winning games. Also, there are lots of players who can put up big numbers... that aren't conducive to winning.


It's a team sport, and at the end of the day, the teams accomplishments are more important than individual accomplishments.

[Marchesk]

http://image1.findagrave.com/photos/2010/126/6886_127325288592.jpg

[TheMarkMadsen]

:facepalm I m not a Lebron stan or fan.

Ok



I personally love Lebron more


http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=328094

[livinglegend]

Because the point of playing the game is to win. There are plenty of things that don't show up on the stat sheet that lead to winning games. Also, there are lots of players who can put up big numbers... that aren't conducive to winning.


It's a team sport, and at the end of the day, the teams accomplishments are more important than individual accomplishments.

yeah, i know team accomplishments are more important than individual accomplishments, but why do people bring team accomplishments to compare individuals? Why cant they use individual accomplishments and stats to compare them?

[livinglegend]

Ok





http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=328094

Not in the present. I used the present tense for a reason.
Nothing is constant in the universe. Everything moves and changes everyday.

[bdreason]

yeah, i know team accomplishments are more important than individual accomplishments, but why do people bring team accomplishments to compare individuals? Why cant they use individual accomplishments and stats to compare them?


Because team accomplishments are the ultimate individual accomplishment.

[TheMarkMadsen]

Not in the present.
Nothing is constant in the universe. Everything moves and changes everyday.

So you're saying you were a heat fan who loved Lebron more than wade just about 4 months ago

And now you're lot a lebron fan


Geee, what happened?

[livinglegend]

Because team accomplishments are the ultimate individual accomplishment.

Could you develop more ? I dont get your statement completely.

[Fudge]

Do you go into deep depression when Bran gets compared to somebody better than him?

[livinglegend]

So you're saying you were a heat fan who loved Lebron more than wade just about 4 months ago

And now you're lot a lebron fan


Geee, what happened?

I changed.

[GimmeThat]

because when you are trying to compare the greats and list out the best players

it's a little bit like the NCAA tournament.


one player/team has got to edge out the other based on something.

[livinglegend]

Do you go into deep depression when Bran gets compared to somebody better than him?

No, I dont.

[livinglegend]

because when you are trying to compare the greats and list out the best players

it's a little bit like the NCAA tournament.


one player/team has got to edge out the other based on something.

Could you rephrase that in a better English? Your statement is not clear. I dont get it.

[josh99]

Because the point of playing the game is to win. There are plenty of things that don't show up on the stat sheet that lead to winning games. Also, there are lots of players who can put up big numbers... that aren't conducive to winning.


It's a team sport, and at the end of the day, the teams accomplishments are more important than individual accomplishments.
By that logic if Lebron played for the bobcats in a parallel universe that would mean Lebron (Heat) > Lebon (Bobcats) where in reality Lebron = Lebron. Of course team accomplishments are the most important thing as that is what the whole sport is about but when comparing players you have to respect the context around them. For example Russell has nearly twice as many rings as MJ but not many people think that Russell > MJ.

[livinglegend]

By that logic if Lebron played for the bobcats in a parallel universe that would mean Lebron (Heat) > Lebon (Bobcats) where in reality Lebron = Lebron. Of course team accomplishments are the most important thing as that is what the whole sport is about but when comparing players you have to respect the context around them. For example Russell has nearly twice as many rings as MJ but not many people think that Russell > MJ.

You made a good point with the parallel universe example.
A player should be judged on his play and solely on his own play. Not on the team around him or the accomplishments by his team.
:applause:

[DaSeba5]

Well if you play in a team sport, you are going to be judged by team accomplishments. But I do think people put too much emphasis on championships. It's hard to win a title and many people take it for granted. A player doesn't need to win 5+ titles to be great.

[GimmeThat]

Could you rephrase that in a better English? Your statement is not clear. I dont get it.


statistics don't win ball games

unless it's winning %

[livinglegend]

statistics don't win ball games

unless it's winning %

I know they dont win ball games. Team play wins ball games and championships. The whole team has to play well.
What does your statement has to do with the topic?

[livinglegend]

Well if you play in a team sport, you are going to be judged by team accomplishments. But I do think people put too much emphasis on championships. It's hard to win a title and many people take it for granted. A player doesn't need to win 5+ titles to be great.

A team is made of multiple players. The accomplishments are won by multiple players, coaches, staff members. It doesnt make sense to bring team accomplishment when comparing PLAYERS. The concept of ''player'' is different from the concept of ''team''. People on this forum dont get that.

[bdreason]

By that logic if Lebron played for the bobcats in a parallel universe that would mean Lebron (Heat) > Lebon (Bobcats) where in reality Lebron = Lebron. Of course team accomplishments are the most important thing as that is what the whole sport is about but when comparing players you have to respect the context around them. For example Russell has nearly twice as many rings as MJ but not many people think that Russell > MJ.


If LeBron were on the Bobcats, they would be a contender. That's why LeBron is such a great player. Not because he posts big statlines, but because his play on the court leads to W's.

Obviously both team and individual accomplishments are taken into consideration when rating/ranking a player... but the OP is asking us to disregard team success when evaluating players, which is completely nonsensical.

All that being said, there are plenty of highly ranked players who have never won a team title. For example, 2 of the (arguably) top 3 PF's of all-time don't have titles. So it's not like people completely disregard individual talent/success when evaluating players.

[BlazerRed]

OP is one of the most cringe worthy trolls on this site :sleeping

[livinglegend]

If LeBron were on the Bobcats, they would be a contender. That's why LeBron is such a great player. Not because he posts big statlines, but because his play on the court leads to W's.

Obviously both team and individual accomplishments are taken into consideration when rating/ranking a player... but the OP is asking us to disregard team success when evaluating players, which is completely nonsensical.

All that being said, there are plenty of highly ranked players who have never won a team title. For example, 2 of the (arguably) top 3 PF's of all-time don't have titles. So it's not like people completely disregard individual talent/success when evaluating players.

If same Lebron (from 2010-2014) went to the Bobcats instead of Miami, he would have 0 ring. Would that make him less great ?

[livinglegend]

OP is one of the most cringe worthy trolls on this site :sleeping

Thanks for sharing your opinion. I appreciate it.

[josh99]

If LeBron were on the Bobcats, they would be a contender. That's why LeBron is such a great player. Not because he posts big statlines, but because his play on the court leads to W's.

Obviously both team and individual accomplishments are taken into consideration when rating/ranking a player... but the OP is asking us to disregard team success when evaluating players, which is completely nonsensical.

All that being said, there are plenty of highly ranked players who have never won a team title. For example, 2 of the (arguably) top 3 PF's of all-time don't have titles. So it's not like people completely disregard individual talent/success when evaluating players.
I agree :cheers:

[Marchesk]

If same Lebron (from 2010-2014) went to the Bobcats instead of Miami, he would have 0 ring. Would that make him less great ?

No, you have to take things into context. So Lebron on the Cavs shouldn't be blamed for not winning a ring, but he does get blame for the poor finals performance in 2011 when the Heat could have won if he had played up to his ability.

[livinglegend]

No, you have to take things into context. So Lebron on the Cavs shouldn't be blamed for not winning a ring, but he does get blame for the poor finals performance in 2011 when the Heat could have won if he had played up to his ability.

I agree with your point. :cheers:

[knicksman]

OP is exposing his betaness. Loser mentality. Because stats and winning doesnt go together. As jordan said- the moment he forego stats is the moment he started winning. We are now going to penalize the duncans, russells for sacrificing their stats for rings eh OP? In fact I fear boston trio more than miami trio and thats because they sacrificed stats.

[ILLsmak]

Because team accomplishments are the ultimate individual accomplishment.

yea I wouldn't go that far. lol. But it is context. Once you realize how the world works, you realize that... not everyone has an equal chance to have the highest levels of success.

So, without team accomplishments you can't judge a player because they play a team game. You watch the game, you see how they interacted with each player. Where does the fault lie? Were they doing everything right?

Cuz I mean if you just look at dude's stats... people can get good stats while losing and not even contribute to the team. All of those people who say "NO SUCH THING AS EMPTY STATS" are insane.

Could the GOAT come into the NBA and not win... yes and no. The way the NBA is, I believe that they would get him some wins. If the NBA was completely fair, then absolutely. So, more wins = more resume. The deeper you go into the playoffs, the more you play against top tier teams... the better for your resume. If you overcome, even better.

-Smak

[pauk]

The point is very simple... to try and rank a lesser player higher than the better player....

[NumberSix]

Because the point of playing the game is to win. There are plenty of things that don't show up on the stat sheet that lead to winning games. Also, there are lots of players who can put up big numbers... that aren't conducive to winning.


It's a team sport, and at the end of the day, the teams accomplishments are more important than individual accomplishments.
Yes, and the point of society is to be a successful nation. My country is rich and powerful, but I don't take the credit for it. I also don't take the blame when we do something bad.

The individual =/= the collective

[Blue&Orange]

Lebron can't be compared to nobody else, because no other player in NBA history cherry picked and stat padded like him.

[livinglegend]

Yes, and the point of society is to be a successful nation. My country is rich and powerful, but I don't take the credit for it. I also don't take the blame when we do something bad.

The individual =/= the collective

Great analogy :applause:

[mehyaM24]

:facepalm I m not a Lebron stan or fan.

yes you are, jstern

what's wrong with being a lebron fan anyway? :facepalm

[livinglegend]

OP is exposing his betaness. Loser mentality. Because stats and winning doesnt go together. As jordan said- the moment he forego stats is the moment he started winning. We are now going to penalize the duncans, russells for sacrificing their stats for rings eh OP? In fact I fear boston trio more than miami trio and thats because they sacrificed stats.

When did I say stats=winning? Quote me please.

[livinglegend]

yes you are, jstern

what's wrong with being a lebron fan anyway? :facepalm

There s nothing wrong. I just not a Lebron fan. If you want to believe to make yourself feel better, then do it. I have no problem with it.

[mehyaM24]

There s nothing wrong. I just not a Lebron fan. If you want to believe to make yourself feel better, then do it. I have no problem with it.

you're a heat fan though right?

LOL i always see you make pro-lebron and heat posts

[livinglegend]

yea I wouldn't go that far. lol. But it is context. Once you realize how the world works, you realize that... not everyone has an equal chance to have the highest levels of success.

So, without team accomplishments you can't judge a player because they play a team game. You watch the game, you see how they interacted with each player. Where does the fault lie? Were they doing everything right?

Cuz I mean if you just look at dude's stats... people can get good stats while losing and not even contribute to the team. All of those people who say "NO SUCH THING AS EMPTY STATS" are insane.

Could the GOAT come into the NBA and not win... yes and no. The way the NBA is, I believe that they would get him some wins. If the NBA was completely fair, then absolutely. So, more wins = more resume. The deeper you go into the playoffs, the more you play against top tier teams... the better for your resume. If you overcome, even better.

-Smak

Here s the problem with the criteria used to rank players today: If the GOAT player played on a team not good enough to win a championship, he wouldnt be considered the GOAT by most. In people s eyes, you have to win championships to be considered great. It s dumb because championships are won in teams. All the players, coaches, staffs have to contribute. A single player is only a part of a very big team.

[livinglegend]

you're a heat fan though right?

LOL i always see you make pro-lebron and heat posts

no, i m not.
I m only a fan of myself and my own entertainment.

[mehyaM24]

no, i m not.

what team/player are you a fan of? be honest jstern

[livinglegend]

what team/player are you a fan of? be honest jstern
I m only a fan of myself and my own entertainment.
Not a fan of any team or player.
Who the **** is jstern lol? Why would I need an alt?

[livinglegend]

The point is very simple... to try and rank a lesser player higher than the better player....

very good point you made. I think this is one of the reasons why many members use it on this board. Another reason why they use it is because many of them are sheeps. They use the same criteria only because others use it.

[mehyaM24]

I m only a fan of myself and my own entertainment.
Not a fan of any team or player.
Who the **** is jstern lol? Why would I need an alt?

you're a narcissist?

come on dude. you dont have a favorite team or player? i find that really hard to believe :coleman:

[livinglegend]

you're a narcissist?

come on dude. you dont have a favorite team or player? i find that really hard to believe :coleman:

Labels are not for me. I like to enjoy life and myself. Dont have time for negative emotions.

And i dont have a favorite team or player. This is the truth.

[Kvnzhangyay]

Well obviously,a player's impact can HELP bring team accomplishments, but because its still a team game, those team accomplishments should be taken with a grain of salt when evaluating a player's impact

[AceManIII]

So who is the GOAT using this criteria, OP?

[PsychoBe]

finals mvp, and regular season mvp.

still team accomplishments. cant make it to the finals without a good team, and you can't win mvp if you and your team are below .500.

[KD35Brah]

2/5 is an individual accomplishment.

[mehyaM24]

Labels are not for me. I like to enjoy life and myself. Dont have time for negative emotions.

And i dont have a favorite team or player. This is the truth.

i can respect that :cheers:

[bukowski81]

If you want to compare players, post their individual accomplishments and stats. Why bring the teams? If you want to compare teams, then bring the championships and etc. Championships are won by teams, not by a single, individual player.

Because the leader of the team highly influences how the rest of the team performs.

[GODbe]

2/5 > 0/1
5 > 1.5*

[G.O.A.T]

If you want to compare players, post their individual accomplishments and stats. Why bring the teams? If you want to compare teams, then bring the championships and etc. Championships are won by teams, not by a single, individual player.

A very basic answer would be this.

The point of the individual is to help the team win.

Without knowing the teams result and the circumstances it's very hard to put individual achievements, in particular stats into context.

[Marchesk]

So who is the GOAT using this criteria, OP?

Adrian Dantley :confusedshrug:

[STATUTORY]

:roll: OP actin like Kobe doesn't shat on Lebron in 1 on 1 pickup game

[knicksman]

When did I say stats=winning? Quote me please.

most players sacrifice stats for winning. So obviously the players that wins with your criteria are those who wouldnt sacrifice aka the selfish/cancers like wilt, bran, robertson. Theres a reason why this clowns are top 10 in most rankings.

[PickernRoller]

:facepalm I m not a Lebron stan or fan.

Lol not even trying hard anymore....reallly...:biggums: :coleman: :lol :lol :lol :facepalm :lol

Have some self-respect brah:roll: