proof that Kobe, Duncan, Lebron, and Shaq are the GOATs of this era!!!

[INDI]

1999: Duncan
2000: Shaq/Kobe
2001: Shaq/Kobe
2002: Shaq/Kobe
2003: Duncan
2004: Shaq/Kobe
2005: Duncan
2006: Shaq
2007: Duncan/Lebron
2008: Kobe
2009: Kobe
2010: Kobe
2011: Lebron
2012: Lebron
2013: Lebron/Duncan
2014: Lebron/Duncan

These 4 horsemen have represented every single championship since Jordan Left the bulls. Fan or hater you gotta respect these beasts!!! Top Ten no doubt.

couple side bars: without Shaq the other three still repped 15 out of 16; Kobe n Bron alone 12 out the last 15.

If you add in the two other modern day top ten players Jordan and Hakeem (though most have Hakeem at 11) then these 6 top ten greats have represented the nba finals for the past

24 YEARS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[INDI]

:applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:

Promise you guys last sidebar:

Add in Magic Bird and KAJ

34 years straight!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Add in Russell and Wilt (which makes the top 11)

These NBA greats minus 5 nba seasons (75-79) have been in every nba finals since 1957

[rhowen4]

Amazing! ✨✨💖💖

[played0ut]

These 4 horsemen have represented every single championship since Jordan Left the bulls. Fan or hater you gotta respect these beasts!!! Top Ten no doubt.


?


Dirk 2011, Celtics 2008, etc?

I think i'm missing something here


*edit*
oh. played in the championships, you mean.

[INDI]

?


Dirk 2011, Celtics 2008, etc?

I think i'm missing something here


*edit*
oh. played in the championships, you mean.

Yeah sorry if I wasn't clear but I was truly amazed when I saw this, had to post it

[BoutPractice]

Yep. The NBA is a pretty unfair league. Either you've got one of those guys or you don't.

[played0ut]

Yep. The NBA is a pretty unfair league. Either you've got one of those guys or you don't.

I wouldn't go that far. It's not like they're cyborgs and in a different class of being. Duncan and Kobe have pretty normal athletic bodies. It's just the will and work they put into it.

[INDI]

Yep. The NBA is a pretty unfair league. Either you've got one of those guys or you don't.

They aren't unbeatable or they would've won all of those championships; however it does go to show that to build a championship team you MUST have either a great player (Dirk, wade etc..) or a great system (pistons D, Phils triangle etc...)

[Artillery]

Yep. The NBA is a pretty unfair league. Either you've got one of those guys or you don't.

Even worse is that two of those four played on the same team. Imagine if Lebron or Duncan played with another top ten HOFer?

[mehyaM24]

put spurs instead of duncan and that list looks good

had kobe,lebron,shaq all played with multiple HOFers (in their prime) and the GOAT coach (popovich), their resumes would be on par with russell and jordan's

[Artillery]

Shaq won MVP and Finals MVP in the same year in 2000
Duncan won MVP and Finals MVP in the same year in 2003
Lebron won MVP and Finals MVP in the same year in 2012 and 2013.
Kobe has never done this.

From 1999 to 2007, a Duncan/Shaq led team won the title 7 times in 9 years. Lebron has been dominating the NBA awards the past couple years. Four straight Finals and two back-to-back titles. The early 2000s was the Shaq/Duncan era. It's currently the Lebron era. There never was a Kobe Bryant era. Sidekicks don't have eras.

[Artillery]

100% - 2 Finals MVPs/2 championships Lebron
75% - 3 Finals MVPs/4 championships Shaq
60% - 3 Finals MVPs/5 championships Duncan
40% - 2 FInals MVPs/5 championships Kobe

Kobe's the only one that won the majority of his championships as a sidekick.

[Purch]

put spurs instead of duncan and that list looks good

had kobe,lebron,shaq all played with multiple HOFers (in their prime) and the GOAT coach (popovich), their resumes would be on par with russell and jordan's

http://ballislife.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/adfasd.jpg

[Artillery]

put spurs instead of duncan and that list looks good

had kobe,lebron,shaq all played with multiple HOFers (in their prime) and the GOAT coach (popovich), their resumes would be on par with russell and jordan's

Phil Jackson - GOAT coach (11 rings)
Shaq - Top Ten all-time great in his prime
Gasol
Odom
Dwight
Artest
Bynum
Malone
Payton
Nash

How much more help does Kobe need?

[K Xerxes]

100% - 2 Finals MVPs/2 championships Lebron
75% - 3 Finals MVPs/4 championships Shaq
60% - 3 Finals MVPs/5 championships Duncan
40% - 2 FInals MVPs/5 championships Kobe

Kobe's the only one that won the majority of his championships as a sidekick.

So if Lebron goes on to win three rings as a second option, his legacy is worse?

Where is the logic in devaluing Kobe's legacy because of three sidekick rings if he's won as many leader rings as LeBron? Utterly stupid. :facepalm

[mehyaM24]

1999: Spurs (GOAT coach/HOF drob/GOAT role players)
2000: Shaq
2001: Shaq
2002: Shaq
2003: Spurs (GOAT coach/HOF drob/HOF parker/HOF manu/HOF bowen/GOAT roleplayers/GOAT 3PT shooter)
2004: Shaq
2005: Spurs (GOAT coach/HOF parker/HOF manu/HOF bowen/HOF horry/GOAT role players)
2006: Lebron
2007: Lebron (spurs just had the better team PER USUAL)
2008: Kobe
2009: Lebron
2010: Lebron
2011: Lebron
2012: Lebron
2013: Lebron
2014: Lebron (same as 2007)

fixed for clarity

[Artillery]

Here's the career RAPM numbers('97 to '14) for players in post-Jordan era that have played more than 70,000 possessions:

+5.63 - Lebron
+5.09 - Duncan
+5.08 - Shaq
+4.75 - Garnett
+4.22 - Dirk
+3.36 - Rasheed
+2.96 - Kobe
+2.77 - Nash
+2.65 - Carter
+2.58 - Kidd
+2.37 - Pierce
+2.15 - Parker
+2.07 - Ben Wallace
+1.76 - Pau Gasol
+1.76 - Ray Allen
+1.15 - Joe Johnson
+1.04 - Marion
+0.95 - Billups
+0.94 - Iverson

Lebron/Duncan/Shaq best players in the post-Jordan era. Kobe's not even a top 5 player of the 2000s. :oldlol:

[Artillery]

Even more impressive is that Lebron/Duncan never played with a prime, top-ten HOFer. Imagine how much titles they win if they did.

[mehyaM24]

Phil Jackson - GOAT coach (11 rings)

popovich is the GOAT coach. jackson had all the GOAT-talent players. fact.

who shaq won with:
HOF kobe
HOF horry
HOF richmond (old, dirt)
HOF payton (old, dirt)
HOF mourning (old, dirt)
HOF wade

who kobe won with:
HOF shaq
HOF horry
HOF gasol
HOF richmond (old, dirt)

who duncan and spurs won with:
GOAT coach
HOF drob
HOF manu
HOF parker
HOF bowen
HOF horry
HOF finley
GOAT 3PT shooter kerr

this is why i say you cant compare shaq,leborn,kobe,dirks individual brilliance with the SPURS' success :facepalm

[INDI]

You guys are funny, can't go a thread were kobe gets some props even though it's in a group setting without trying to bring him down. Bottom line he is a top ten player and one of the greatest in this Era if not THE GREATEST OF THIS ERA!!!!

Deal with it.... now to the rest of you that are amazed that the NBA's Greatest 11 players have been in 54 out of the last 59 championships let's carry on....

[Artillery]

who kobe and lakers won with:
GOAT coach - 11 rings
HOF shaq - prime top ten all-time great
HOF gasol - 2nd best Euro player in post-Jordan era(after Dirk)
HOF artest - dpoy winner
HOF horry - younger version
HOF glen rice
HOF odom
HOF richmond (old, dirt)
GOAT role player/clutch 3 pt shooter Fisher

who duncan won with:
HOF drob (old, dirt)
HOF manu (injury prone)
HOF parker
HOF bowen
HOF horry (old, dirt)
HOF finley (old, dirt)
GOAT 3PT shooter kerr

this is why i say you cant compare duncan/lebron individual brilliance with the LAKERS' success :facepalm

fix'd

[Artillery]

You guys are funny, can't go a thread were kobe gets some props even though it's in a group setting without trying to bring him down. Bottom line he is a top ten player and one of the greatest in this Era if not THE GREATEST OF THIS ERA!!!!

Deal with it.... now to the rest of you that are amazed that the NBA's Greatest 11 players have been in 54 out of the last 59 championships let's carry on....

We give Kobe props. He's one of the best best players in the post-Jordan era. He's just not as good as Lebron/Duncan/Shaq. Those three have more individual accolades(MVP+Final MVP same season) and they were the best players on their team for the majority of their championships.

[mehyaM24]

popovich is the GOAT coach. jackson had all the GOAT-talent players. fact.

who shaq won with:
HOF kobe
HOF horry
HOF richmond (old, dirt)
HOF payton (old, dirt)
HOF mourning (old, dirt)
HOF wade

who kobe won with:
HOF shaq
HOF horry
HOF gasol
HOF richmond (old, dirt)

who duncan and spurs won with:
GOAT coach
HOF drob
HOF manu
HOF parker
HOF bowen
HOF horry
HOF finley
GOAT 3PT shooter kerr

THIS list should be in every duncan/spurs thread :rockon:

[Artillery]

jackson is the GOAT coach. 11 rings>5 rings. fact.


who kobe and lakers won with:
GOAT coach - 11 rings
HOF shaq - prime top ten all-time great
HOF gasol - 2nd best Euro player in post-Jordan era(after Dirk)
HOF artest - dpoy winner
HOF horry - younger version
HOF glen rice
HOF odom
HOF richmond (old, dirt)
GOAT role player/clutch 3 pt shooter Fisher

who duncan won with:
HOF drob (old, dirt)
HOF manu (injury prone)
HOF parker
HOF bowen
HOF horry (old, dirt)
HOF finley (old, dirt)
GOAT 3PT shooter kerr

THIS list should be in every kobe/lakers thread :rockon:

[INDI]

We give Kobe props. He's one of the best best players in the post-Jordan era. He's just not as good as Lebron/Duncan/Shaq. Those three have more individual accolades(MVP+Final MVP same season) and they were the best players on their team for the majority of their championships.

I don't agree. Shaq only has 1 more FMVP than Kobe while Kobe has 1 more championship

Championship >>> F MVP. Besides the ring, Kobe has broken more records, way higher on the scoring list, way better longevity, considered a way better defender and is still in the league.

Duncan is another story I have Kobe 6th all time and duncan 7th so it's a wash to me and I can understand why someone would rank one over the other.

Lebron has a shot to go over both of them but you have to put the work in. I'm not going to give you their slots banking on him getting future Mvps and rings. If he retired from the league today his proper ranking would be 8 or 9 so that's where I got him for the time being

[mehyaM24]

I don't agree. Shaq only has 1 more FMVP than Kobe while Kobe has 1 more championship

Championship >>> F MVP. Besides the ring, Kobe has broken more records, way higher on the scoring list, way better longevity, considered a way better defender and is still in the league.

Duncan is another story I have Kobe 6th all time and duncan 7th so it's a wash to me and I can understand why someone would rank one over the other.

Lebron has a shot to go over both of them but you have to put the work in. I'm not going to give you their slots banking on him getting future Mvps and rings. If he retired from the league today his proper ranking would be 8 or 9 so that's where I got him for the time being

follow this criteria and you can never go wrong:

duncan has won with more HOFers than any one of these players, thus he is behind the pack

it goes: lebron, shaq, kobe then duncan

we both agree that they are ALL GOAT players, but duncan might be a tier below these guys :confusedshrug:

[Artillery]

I don't agree. Shaq only has 1 more FMVP than Kobe while Kobe has 1 more championship

Championship >>> F MVP. Besides the ring, Kobe has broken more records, way higher on the scoring list, way better longevity, considered a way better defender and is still in the league.

Duncan is another story I have Kobe 6th all time and duncan 7th so it's a wash to me and I can understand why someone would rank one over the other.

Lebron has a shot to go over both of them but you have to put the work in. I'm not going to give you their slots banking on him getting future Mvps and rings. If he retired from the league today his proper ranking would be 8 or 9 so that's where I got him for the time being

You're looking at team accolades. I'm looking at individual impact. The Lakers had a better win% without Kobe in the early 2000s than they did with him. Based on impact, the best players in the post-Jordan era are:

1. Lebron
2. Duncan
3. Shaq
4. KG
5. Dirk
6. Kobe

We shouldn't rank Kobe higher just because he played on the most stacked teams and had the GOAT help. Wouldn't be fair to the other guys on the list who didn't have the teammates Kobe did. Give Lebron/Duncan a prime-Shaq calibre player and they would three-peat too.

[G.O.A.T]

1999: Duncan
2000: Shaq/Kobe
2001: Shaq/Kobe
2002: Shaq/Kobe
2003: Duncan
2004: Shaq/Kobe
2005: Duncan
2006: Shaq
2007: Duncan/Lebron
2008: Kobe
2009: Kobe
2010: Kobe
2011: Lebron
2012: Lebron
2013: Lebron/Duncan
2014: Lebron/Duncan

These 4 horsemen have represented every single championship since Jordan Left the bulls. Fan or hater you gotta respect these beasts!!! Top Ten no doubt.

couple side bars: without Shaq the other three still repped 15 out of 16; Kobe n Bron alone 12 out the last 15.

If you add in the two other modern day top ten players Jordan and Hakeem (though most have Hakeem at 11) then these 6 top ten greats have represented the nba finals for the past

24 YEARS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You can take 12 guys and cover the entire history of the league save the late 70's.

[Spurs5Rings2014]

follow this criteria and you can never go wrong:

duncan has won with more HOFers than any one of these players, thus he is behind the pack

it goes: lebron, shaq, kobe then duncan

we both agree that they are ALL GOAT players, but duncan might be a tier below these guys :confusedshrug:

robert shaw/past is/thatoneguywithlebronpickinghisnoseasanavy is that you?

:roll:

[T_L_P]

robert shaw/past is/thatoneguywithlebronpickinghisnoseasanavy is that you?

:roll:

You can tell they're all the same guy by their arbitrary judging criteria.

pastis: ez layups
robert_shaww: role player for 10 years
this guy: made up Hall of Fame teammates

You can't even be objective with them. Even though the Lakers had a better win percentage without Kobe in the early 2000s he still had less help. :roll:

[mehyaM24]

robert shaw/past is/thatoneguywithlebronpickinghisnoseasanavy is that you?

:roll:

huh?

anyway, its a myth that duncan won more with less. only casuals spew that nonsense.

the fact is, despite all the credit he gets, guy won with more talent/HOFers than any one of his peers.

name 2 HOF teammates, in their primes, that either lebron, shaq and kobe won with.

you cant

[Nowitness]

:facepalm To anyone saying this is an unfair league.

Try watching football (soccer for the fools over in America) where the team with the biggest budgets usually wins. The NBA is a league where teams can turn around, sure there are a crop of guys who will usually win but just look at Cleveland, 7 years ago they were top of the East, now near the bottom. Utah, Seattle, New York, Orlando and Portland all had chances to win titles in the 90s.

Since 2010 we have seen a team win (Dallas) then miss the playoffs two years later. So what if Duncan/Shaq/Kobe or LeBron always made a final, it speaks more to how good they are.

[Odinn]

OP, has Duncan ever been a top 5 player since 2005-06?

[mehyaM24]

OP, has Duncan ever been a top 5 player since 2005-06?

dont wanna speak for op, but duncan wasnt.

2006:
lebron
wade
kobe
dirk
nash

2007:
dirk
lebron
kobe
wade
nash

after 2008, he wasnt even a top 10 player

[T_L_P]

dont wanna speak for op, but duncan wasnt.

2006:
lebron
wade
kobe
dirk
nash

2007:
dirk
lebron
kobe
wade
nash

after 2008, he wasnt even a top 10 player

Duncan lead the league in Playoff PER in 06 and was far and away the best player on his team in 07. He was great in the 07 Playoffs. :oldlol: at Dirk being ahead of him. His 60+ win team got bounced by the 8th seed.

But nothing you really say has any grounding. You've been on some anti-Duncan shit all day, and people have been destroying you for it.

[mehyaM24]

Duncan lead the league in Playoff PER in 06 and was far and away the best player on his team in 07. He was great in the 07 Playoffs. :oldlol: at Dirk being ahead of him. His 60+ win team got bounced by the 8th seed.

But nothing you really say has any grounding. You've been on some anti-Duncan shit all day, and people have been destroying you for it.

yeah a big LOL at dirk, the MVP, being better than duncan in 2007 :facepalm

if you wanna say duncan was top 5 in 2006, go ahead (how biased :rolleyes:)

from 2007 and on, he wasn't top 5. everything else is opinion.

[T_L_P]

yeah a big LOL at dirk, the MVP, being better than duncan in 2007 :facepalm

if you wanna say duncan was top 5 in 2006, go ahead (how biased :rolleyes:)

from 2007 and on, he wasn't top 5. everything else is opinion.

Proof is there. He averaged 32 PPG in the Mavs series on 56% shooting.

And he was definitely a top 5 player in 07. In the offseason GM survey, Duncan was voted the best PF and the best C. He was second in Playoff PER, Win Shares and WS/48. Nash and Dirk have no real argument over him that year. Yes Dirk won the MVP, but he had one of the biggest postseason collapses ever. His 67 win team lost a 42 win team.

Talk about post 07 all you want, but you've not got much to say he isn't in 06 or 07, other than a huge grudge which you love pushing. :confusedshrug:

I mean, you're still adamant Duncan had a better team put around him in the early 2000s than Shaq and Kobe even though Duncan's team had a losing record without him and the Lakers had a better win percentage when Kobe was missing. How does that work?

[mehyaM24]

Proof is there. He averaged 32 PPG in the Mavs series on 56% shooting.

you know what? ill concede that point.

im ok with callling duncan top 5 in 2006

duncan held his own in that series vs the mavs, dirk outplayed him in that game 7 though. no stats you throw at me will change my mind there.


And he was definitely a top 5 player in 07.

wade wasnt healthy so technically i'd have to put him top 5 anyway

i do feel that spurs team inflated his self-worth but whatever. people who watched that 2007 spurs run know manu and parker were ****ing great and the backbone of the team (and the spurs teams following).

[T_L_P]

people who watched that 2007 spurs run know manu and parker were ****ing great and the backbone of the team (and the spurs teams following).



Explain please. I know you're trolling, but I'd like to see the response. Duncan was playing some of his best defense (something I think you overlook), and he still commanded double teams and was the first option on offense. Look at what he did in the Phoenix series (the toughest one): averaged 27/14 on 57% shooting whilst Parker shot 45% from the field and played pretty poor defense. Manu was running anything.

You can't pay Duncan a compliment. First it's all about the system, and now he's not even the backbone of the team in his prime -- even though the 07 Spurs were still a defensive team and he was clearly their best defender, and he was the most efficient/consistent offensive option.

[mehyaM24]

Explain please. I know you're trolling, but I'd like to see the response. Duncan was playing some of his best defense (something I think you overlook), and he still commanded double teams and was the first option on offense. Look at what he did in the Phoenix series (the toughest one): averaged 27/14 on 57% shooting whilst Parker shot 45% from the field and played pretty poor defense. Manu was running anything.

i've gone through this MANY times with duncan fans

manu and parker's ability to penetrate and kick WAS the spurs offense (evident by their assist rate)

manu led the spurs in ORTG during their 07 run followed by duncan and then parker, but when you factor in parkers playmaking and quickness, you can see why i say the spurs system and offense was generally ran by he and manu.

the 2007 cavs couldnt hang with tony or manu despite being perimeter-heavy

manu had TWO 25+point games in the sweep and parker, well, he was FMVP

they're matchup nightmares and together, out-weigh what duncan brings to the table


You can't pay Duncan a compliment.

top 10 all-time, 5th best center of all-time :confusedshrug:

[mehyaM24]

great discussion on reddit about this very same topic:
http://www.reddit.com/r/NBASpurs/comments/27xp4e/better_than_kobe_better_than_garnett_better_than/

[LA Lakers]

Dirk Nowitzski might have something to say about this list. I hope when the history books are written people don't forget about the fact that Lebron disappeared(was gone, hardly realized he was on the court in the 4th q's) against Dallas in the Finals. No disrespect to Lebron. He is the best show in town right now, but 2011 is what it is. Not to mention his betrayal of the city of Cleveland and his arrogant tv show decision. That all plays into " legacy."