Which of the following players would you put in the top 25 all time?

[SouBeachTalents]

Just bold or say the ones that you would

Isiah
Pippen
Havlicek
Barry
Dr. J
Hayes
Schayes
Payton
Stockton
Cousy
Reed
Wade
Kidd
Mikan
Robinson

[Fudge]

Isiah
Pippen
Havlicek
Barry
Dr. J
Hayes
Schayes
Payton
Stockton
Cousy
Reed
Wade
Kidd
Mikan
Robinson

[Roundball_Rock]

My list:


Just bold or say the ones that you would

Isiah
Pippen
Havlicek
Barry
Dr. J
Hayes
Schayes
Payton
Stockton
Cousy
Reed
Wade
Kidd
Mikan
Robinson

[zizozain]

My list:
:applause:

[moe94]

Isiah
Pippen
Havlicek
Barry
Dr. J
Stockton
Mikan
Robinson

[Real14]

Isiah, pippen, cousy, and reed. Maybe Mikan and dr. j.

[navy]

Just bold or say the ones that you would

Isiah
Pippen
Havlicek
Barry
Dr. J
Hayes
Schayes
Payton
Stockton
Cousy
Reed
Wade
Kidd
Mikan
Robinson
:rockon:

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Isiah
Pippen
Havlicek
Barry
Dr. J
Hayes
Schayes
Payton
Stockton
Cousy
Reed
Wade
Kidd
Mikan
Robinson

Probably..

[zizozain]

Probably..
thats 8

and the remaining 17 players?

[SHAQisGOAT]

Just bold or say the ones that you would

Isiah
Pippen
Havlicek
Barry
Dr. J
Hayes
Schayes
Payton
Stockton
Cousy
Reed
Wade
Kidd
Mikan
Robinson


Gets hard to say with Barry/Isiah/Frazier/Cousy... Off the top, (starting at 12th, in no particular order) I got Moses, Oscar, West, Erving, Malone, Hondo, Baylor, Robinson, KG, Barkley, Wade, Dirk, Pettit... I'm missing #25 so it's most likely between those 4 I've mentioned, but probably Rick. Dude like Pippen also close.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

thats 8

and the remaining 17 players?

In no order:
MJ
Kobe
Bird
Magic
LeBron
Hakeem
Kareem
Shaq
Wilt
Russell
Duncan
Garnett
Nowitzki
Pettit
Moses
West
Oscar

Damn it's hard. I probably missed a few guys..Honestly Wade probably deserve to be in there as well. Just not sure who i'd kick off

[stalkerforlife]

Just bold or say the ones that you would

Isiah
Pippen
Havlicek
Barry
Dr. J
Hayes
Schayes
Payton
Stockton
Cousy
Reed
Wade
Kidd
Mikan
Robinson

...

[the mesiah]

Isiah
Pippen
Havlicek
Barry
Dr. J
Hayes
Schayes
Payton
Stockton
Cousy
Reed
Wade
Kidd
Mikan
Robinson

[el gringos]

Stocktons a better player than Gary Payton? Unanimously? I forgot we are just looking at resumes around here

[Jacks3]

lol @ Wade not being one of the 25 best players ever.

[ThePhantomCreep]

lol @ Wade not being one of the 25 best players ever.

It's only debatable because of his brittle physique. Dudes basically washed up at 32.

[Nowitness]

Just bold or say the ones that you would

Isiah
Pippen
Havlicek
Barry
Dr. J
Hayes
Schayes
Payton
Stockton
Cousy
Reed
Wade
Kidd
Mikan
Robinson

There we go.

[dubeta]

problem with wade is that he only really had 6 great years (2005,2006 2009,2010,2011) 2012 is arguable

Garnett, Barkley, Malone, Dirk all are pushing 16+ years with at least 10 great years

[Sarcastic]

LOL @ Pippen being in top 25 :lol

[G.O.A.T]

Isiah
Pippen
Havlicek
Barry
Dr. J
Hayes
Schayes
Payton
Stockton
Cousy
Reed
Wade
Kidd
Mikan
Robinson

The four in bold are the only ones I don't consider in the running for a top 25 spot. Of those four, Hayes is the only one I wouldn't put in the top 40 most times.

[SouBeachTalents]

Votes for each thus far

Isiah- 8
Pippen- 8
Havlicek- 7
Barry- 4
Dr. J- 7
Hayes- No love
Schayes- 1
Payton- 1
Stockton- 6
Cousy- 3
Reed- 1
Wade- 5
Kidd- 1
Mikan- 5
Robinson- 5

[GimmeThat]

I would like to think that eventually players from different eras may distribute close to evenly amongst the top greats. (including eras where players overlap)

this might be the only way to get past the ring achievments outside of the top 10 and give room for individual greatness/superiority.

in the end, no matter how many rings the Bulls won, there's really only going to be 2 in the top 25, and maybe 3 in the top 40-50. and if Pippen isn't top 25, there's certainly going to be other players from that era where the Bulls dominated which belongs there.



Edit: how much is a dynasty worth?

[EllEffEll]

Dr. J has got to be in my top 25. In the 1980 Finals, he was a virtual Batman with no Robin to help him out (kind of like AI in the 2000/01 Finals in that respect).

When they needed to score, they would literally give him the ball on one side of the court, and the other four would clear out and let him . . . . . 'operate'. Over and over. And his open court game was of course, revolutionary and breathtaking.

[BigBoss]

lol @ Wade not being one of the 25 best players ever.

But his peak was better then Kobes according to Heat fans :hammerhead:

[VengefulAngel]

The fact that some of you don't believe D Wade is top 25 of all time shows how little you know about basketball...

[kshutts1]

Just bold or say the ones that you would

Isiah
Pippen
Havlicek
Barry
Dr. J
Hayes
Schayes
Payton
Stockton
Cousy
Reed
Wade
Kidd
Mikan
Robinson
Assuming Robinson is David Robinson, he is close, but I'm not entirely sure on top 25 (or, in my ranking system, third or fourth tier).

Been pretty open, for a while now, about older greats not being included in my rankings... Mikan, Hayes, Schayes would all make the fourth through sixth tier without question... but there would be a disclaimer of sorts... basically saying I'm too lazy to do the necessary research to rank them appropriately, but that I knew they would be where I slotted them AT WORST.
Same way I rank Pettit... I put him in the third tier, just because I know that's where he should go at worst.

[Sakkreth]

Why is DR.J in that list, who wouldn't have him as top 25 ??

[Roundball_Rock]

The fact that some of you don't believe D Wade is top 25 of all time shows how little you know about basketball...


His resume lacks longevity at this point. Prime Wade was good--but that did not last long and he missed a lot of games during that period as well. If Wade can string together a few more all-star seasons he is top 25. Look at that list. He is being compared to people who had full careers. In order to put Wade above that group you would have to believe Wade was a vastly superior player to them in his prime and he was not (Wade has two all-NBA first teams and his best MVP finishes are 3rd and 5th. People overrate his resume and prime dominance. He is closer to Drexler than he is to Kobe and West). Other than Dr. J, all these players are top 15-35 types. Currently I have Wade top 30 and unless he completely breaks down, which sadly looks possible, he will finish in the top 25.

Isiah
Pippen
Havlicek
Barry
Dr. J
Stockton
Cousy
Mikan
Robinson

All these players are currently ahead of Wade and then you have the universal top 11, the group of players who usually are just outside the top 15 (West, Baylor, Moses Malone, Robertson) who bring us to 24 players ahead of Wade, plus there are some players who have not been mentioned but are clearly ahead of Wade right now (i.e. Karl Malone, Barkley) and some other players, including some on that original list, have cases over Wade circa 2014 as well.

[L.A. Jazz]

Just bold or say the ones that you would

Isiah
Pippen
Havlicek
Barry
Dr. J
Hayes
Schayes
Payton
Stockton
Cousy
Reed
Wade
Kidd
Mikan
Robinson
:applause:

[Mass Debator]

His resume lacks longevity at this point. Prime Wade was good--but that did not last long and he missed a lot of games during that period as well. If Wade can string together a few more all-star seasons he is top 25. Look at that list. He is being compared to people who had full careers. In order to put Wade above that group you would have to believe Wade was a vastly superior player to them in his prime and he was not (Wade has two all-NBA first teams and his best MVP finishes are 3rd and 5th. People overrate his resume and prime dominance. He is closer to Drexler than he is to Kobe and West). Other than Dr. J, all these players are top 15-35 types. Currently I have Wade top 30 and unless he completely breaks down, which sadly looks possible, he will finish in the top 25.

Isiah
Pippen
Havlicek
Barry
Dr. J
Stockton
Cousy
Mikan
Robinson

All these players are currently ahead of Wade and then you have the universal top 11, the group of players who usually are just outside the top 15 (West, Baylor, Moses Malone, Robertson) who bring us to 24 players ahead of Wade, plus there are some players who have not been mentioned but are clearly ahead of Wade right now (i.e. Karl Malone, Barkley) and some other players, including some on that original list, have cases over Wade circa 2014 as well.
Isiah is not on top of Wade. Wade playing this upcoming year will match Isiah's total stats already and it's not like Isiah has more all team selections or better accolades all around.

Scottie Pippen? Wade is right there with him in point totals playing like 6 less seasons. You're comparing a 7x all-star to a 10x.

Havlicek?....

Can't even rank Mikan properly with a short career and playing in the pre-shot-clock era barely shooting over 40%.

You do realize Wade is 8th in PER all time above players like Kareem, Magic, Duncan, Hakeem, etc?

Wade is top 25 and inching his way into the top 20.

[Harison]

Isiah
Pippen
Havlicek
Barry
Dr. J
Hayes
Schayes
Payton
Stockton (borderline)
Cousy
Reed
Wade (borderline)
Kidd
Mikan
Robinson

[wally_world]

Isiah
Pippen
Doctor

[SouBeachTalents]

Updated count

Isiah- 13
Pippen- 13
Havlicek- 11
Barry- 7
Dr. J- 12
Hayes- No love
Schayes- 1
Payton- 1
Stockton- 9
Cousy- 4
Reed- 1
Wade- 8
Kidd- 1
Mikan- 8
Robinson- 8

[G.O.A.T]

Updated count

Isiah- 13
Pippen- 13
Havlicek- 11
Barry- 7
Dr. J- 12
Hayes- No love
Schayes- 1
Payton- 1
Stockton- 9
Cousy- 4
Reed- 1
Wade- 8
Kidd- 1
Mikan- 8
Robinson- 8

Stockton over Kidd and Payton by so much makes little sense to me.

Essentially you have three guys with the same resume except Kidd and Payton never played with anyone as good as Karl Malone.

[magnax1]

Stockton over Kidd and Payton by so much makes little sense to me.

Essentially you have three guys with the same resume except Kidd and Payton never played with anyone as good as Karl Malone.
I think its pretty much agreed payton and kidd were quitr a bit worse offensively. Kidd couldnt score/shoot and payton was a ballhog SG playing PG.

[magnax1]

Isiah
Pippen
Havlicek
Barry
Dr. J
Hayes
Schayes
Payton
Stockton
Cousy
Reed
Wade
Kidd
Mikan
Robinson
Bolded the maybes. I dont have a list in my head, and Im not sure if half of them would really make it.

[G.O.A.T]

I think its pretty much agreed payton and kidd were quitr a bit worse offensively. Kidd couldnt score/shoot and payton was a ballhog SG playing PG.

I disagree. It's certainly not agreed on, but I could see an argument (and have from you before)

Kidd shot the three just as well as Stockton, especially later in his career and while Payton was a little too shot happy for my taste, that was his role more so than Stockton. While Stockton was clearly much more efficient he never averaged over 17ppg. Payton was above that mark for a decade.

Even if you subjectively prefer one's talents to another's, their resumes and reputations seem pretty similar.

[magnax1]

I disagree. It's certainly not agreed on, but I could see an argument (and have from you before)

Kidd shot the three just as well as Stockton, especially later in his career and while Payton was a little too shot happy for my taste, that was his role more so than Stockton. While Stockton was clearly much more efficient he never averaged over 17ppg. Payton was above that mark for a decade.

Even if you subjectively prefer one's talents to another's, their resumes and reputations seem pretty similar.
Kidd was not nearly as good of a shooter until he was past his prime. Stockton was one of the best 3pt shooters in the league. Averaged 40+% almost every year in his prime. They scored on similar numbers while stockton was shooting with league leading efficiency some years like Nash. Kidds similar to stockton in longevity and defense, and better in rebounding. Otherwise Stockton has a large positive differential in impact.
Payton was not only "shot happy" but terribly inefficient except for a few years around 96. He had an incredibly short prime and his value was predicated on his great defense (which I think Kidd was honestly as good at or better) and that also had a relatively short lifespan from 94-97 or 98
As for their similar reputations, most people seem to disagree.

[kingofkitsch]

Isiah
Pippen
Havlicek
Barry
Dr. J
Hayes
Schayes
Payton
Stockton
Cousy
Reed
Wade
Kidd
Mikan
Robinson

Mikan is the selection I was iffy on, but for sheer influence on the game he is one of the top 25 players of all-time.

Looking at the results thus far, D Rob. is being slightly underrated: the leader and defensive anchor on an all-time great defensive title team, one of the greatest defensive players ever, one of the top players ever in terms of advanced statistics, etc. etc.

Surprised to see Dr. J is listed as one of the options; seems like he is one of those consensus top 20 picks.

Isiah is so close, and on another day I might put him in there. His post-playing career, I think, has really negatively affected how he is viewed. One of the greatest competitors the game has ever seen, too.