Cavs and Wolves Blockbuster Trade Scenario

[BallsOut]

Cavs send: Andrew Wiggins, Tristan Thompson, Anderson Verajao, Dion Waiters & two 1st rd picks
Cavs get: Kevin Love, Corey Brewer, Ronny Turiaf, and Jose Barea

Wolves send: Kevin Love, Corey Brewer, Ronny Turiaf, and Jose Barea
Wolves get: Andrew Wiggins, Tristan Thompson, Anderson Verajao, Dion Waiters & two 1st rd picks

Cavs
PG: Irving | Barea
SG: Allen | Brewer
SF: Miller | Bennett
PF: Lebron | Turiaf
C: Love | Haywood

Wolves
PG: Rubio | Waiters
SG: Wiggins | Shved
SF: Budinger | Martin
PF: Thompson | Moute
C: Pekovic | Verajao

:bowdown:

[IncarceratedBob]

Wiggins is untouchable, I would only trade him for Durant and Westbrook

[qrich]

Wolves win more games, Cavs still miss playoffs due to Love.

[BallsOut]

Wiggins is untouchable, I would only trade him for Durant and Westbrook

Wiggins isn't untouchable. Cavs called up Wolves before draft. Offered #1 for Love. Love rejected it because he didn't want to S&T with Cleveland without Lebron.

[alanLA92]

At least this isn't another Hawks trade thread.

[BallsOut]

Wolves win more games, Cavs still miss playoffs due to Love.

You think an Irving/James/Love trio is missing the playoffs in the weak East?

:biggums:

[Kingwillball]

Wolves win more games, Cavs still miss playoffs due to Love.


Lebron Missed Playoffs once in his career his rookie season. That has a 0% chance of happening with that team.

[DMAVS41]

Love, at this point, is not worth Wiggins and Thompson and a first. That is too much.

Minny has no leverage whatsoever...so that price is just way too high.

I came up with a proposal earlier, but as I'm trying to find it...why are the idiots on ESPN saying that the Cavs are years away from contending? Do they really not understand that if Lebron goes there it would be assured that they'd be making at least 1 huge trade to get proven players in???? Are they really this incapable of seeing the moves in advance?

Proposal 1;

Wiggins, Andy's expiring contract, the Grizzlies pick for,

Love and Dieng


Proposal 2;

Waiters, Thompson, Andy's expiring contract, 2 first round picks for,

Love, Dieng, and Martin (Wolves would want Martin gone to get out of his contract and he'd actually fit in well on the Cavs next to Lebron/Wiggins)


I personally think the Wolves make out better in the 2nd proposal, but I'm not super high on Wiggins to begin with.



If Lebron really does go back to the Cavs...there is definitely going to be a major trade unless I'm seriously under-rating the current Cavs rosters' ability to contend for a title in year 1.

To me, that just wouldn't make sense. Love is 25 and the perfect pf next to Lebron. Trading Wiggins and or Waiters/Thompson/Picks for him is a no brainer for me.

If I was the Cavs I'd just insist on Dieng coming back. They'll need another big and he has potential and comes cheap.

[DMAVS41]

Lebron Missed Playoffs once in his career his rookie season. That has a 0% chance of happening with that team.

Nope. He missed them in year 2 as well.

[guy]

Love, at this point, is not worth Wiggins and Thompson and a first. That is too much.

Minny has no leverage whatsoever...so that price is just way too high.

I came up with a proposal earlier, but as I'm trying to find it...why are the idiots on ESPN saying that the Cavs are years away from contending? Do they really not understand that if Lebron goes there it would be assured that they'd be making at least 1 huge trade to get proven players in???? Are they really this incapable of seeing the moves in advance?

Proposal 1;

Wiggins, Andy's expiring contract, the Grizzlies pick for,

Love and Dieng


Proposal 2;

Waiters, Thompson, Andy's expiring contract, 2 first round picks for,

Love, Dieng, and Martin (Wolves would want Martin gone to get out of his contract and he'd actually fit in well on the Cavs next to Lebron/Wiggins)


I personally think the Wolves make out better in the 2nd proposal, but I'm not super high on Wiggins to begin with.



If Lebron really does go back to the Cavs...there is definitely going to be a major trade unless I'm seriously under-rating the current Cavs rosters' ability to contend for a title in year 1.

To me, that just wouldn't make sense. Love is 25 and the perfect pf next to Lebron. Trading Wiggins and or Waiters/Thompson/Picks for him is a no brainer for me.

If I was the Cavs I'd just insist on Dieng coming back. They'll need another big and he has potential and comes cheap.

How does Minny have no leverage? There's multiple teams that can provide attractive trade options who Love would sign an extension with.

[DMAVS41]

How does Minny have no leverage? There's multiple teams that can provide attractive trade options who Love would sign an extension with.

Like who?

Warriors are apparently out.

Who can beat Wiggins and a first rounder or Waiters, Thompson, and 2 first rounders?

I've haven't seen anything close to either of those...

[AKADS]

The cavs will most likely keep AV and if he is traded it would most likely be a buyout situation so he can return he and LeBron are very close

[Ass Dan]

What has Kevin Love ever done of note except compile a bunch of worthless stats?

He's not a game changer, he is a compiler.

If I am the Wolves I jump all over that without hesitation.

[NattyPButter]

rather just keep Waiters and Thompson then take Love. Who can't even get his team into the playoffs. Thompson is a rebounding machine who needs to stop shooting and pass out. Waiters can make up the points that love brings. Trading for love just makes the defense worst and payroll high.

[Sarcastic]

Replace Wiggins for Bennett (another #1 pick overall!!!!), and the Cavs might think about it.

[DMAVS41]

I don't even really like Love a ton, but he has become by far the most under-rated player on here.

LOL at turning down Love for Waiters/Thompson.

[guy]

Like who?

Warriors are apparently out.

Who can beat Wiggins and a first rounder or Waiters, Thompson, and 2 first rounders?

I've haven't seen anything close to either of those...

Come on man, you know better then that. Warriors aren't out. If I'm not mistaken, its the Warriors that are still pondering the deal because of Klay Thompson i.e. they believe they can get Love without giving up Klay. And we don't know about other deals that have been discussed. Lakers may offer Randle+picks. Chicago may offer a combination of Taj, Mirotic+picks. Boston may offer Smart or Rondo + picks. Phoenix could offer Bledsoe or Dragic + picks. I believe those are 5 teams that Love has said he would resign with.

I believe that any deal involving Wiggins is probably the best deal out there for Love. But I think maybe we define "leverage" differently. For Minnesota to not have leverage it would mean they can only deal with one team i.e. if Love said he would only resign with one team, and if they would lose him for nothing if they don't take the best offer from that team. Minnesota is clearly not in that situation, at least not yet, so Cleveland can't just completely avoid giving up Wiggins (doesn't sound like you said that, but just mentioning it cause that would be the case if Minnesota had no leverage.)

[DMAVS41]

Come on man, you know better then that. Warriors aren't out. If I'm not mistaken, its the Warriors that are still pondering the deal because of Klay Thompson i.e. they believe they can get Love without giving up Klay. And we don't know about other deals that have been discussed. Lakers may offer Randle+picks. Chicago may offer a combination of Taj, Mirotic+picks. Boston may offer Smart or Rondo + picks. Phoenix could offer Bledsoe or Dragic + picks. I believe those are 5 teams that Love has said he would resign with.

I believe that any deal involving Wiggins is probably the best deal out there for Love. But I think maybe we define "leverage" differently. For Minnesota to not have leverage it would mean they can only deal with one team i.e. if Love said he would only resign with one team, and if they would lose him for nothing if they don't take the best offer from that team. Minnesota is clearly not in that situation, at least not yet, so Cleveland can't just completely avoid giving up Wiggins (doesn't sound like you said that, but just mentioning it cause that would be the case if Minnesota had no leverage.)

All it takes is Love saying he won't sign other places. Love also said he'd go to the Cavs and for sure stay if Lebron went there.

Of all those deals you listed....in my opinion, the two deals I proposed are better. And that is what really matters. If Love says he wants go to the Cavs and the Cavs are offering the best packages, and with players they have a better chance of keeping long term...works pretty well for both parties.

Do any of those deals above you listed work better than the following?

Wiggins and first

Waiters, Thompson, and 2 firsts


I guess I just don't see what is more attractive about any of the deals you listed. They could also shed the Martin contract because the Cavs would actually want him back because he'd fit in so well with his shooting next to Lebron.

I think Waiters, Thompson, and 2 firsts is the deal that is best for the Wolves as they are kind of locked into trying to be good for at least the next couple years. And they would be pretty good with that kind of talent with Saunders coaching.

When I said they had no leverage...I'm talking about the fact that they either trade Love or he walks for nothing. There are only a few teams, if that many, that Love would even agree to go to with an assurance he'll stay long term. That was my point. It's not like they can squeeze anyone here...teams will just say good luck with that and move on.

[El Gato Negro]

at this point the wolves have lost all the leverage, teams can just wait a year and sign him.

[guy]

All it takes is Love saying he won't sign other places. Love also said he'd go to the Cavs and for sure stay if Lebron went there.

Of all those deals you listed....in my opinion, the two deals I proposed are better. And that is what really matters. If Love says he wants go to the Cavs and the Cavs are offering the best packages, and with players they have a better chance of keeping long term...works pretty well for both parties.

Do any of those deals above you listed work better than the following?

Wiggins and first

Waiters, Thompson, and 2 firsts


I guess I just don't see what is more attractive about any of the deals you listed. They could also shed the Martin contract because the Cavs would actually want him back because he'd fit in so well with his shooting next to Lebron.

I think Waiters, Thompson, and 2 firsts is the deal that is best for the Wolves as they are kind of locked into trying to be good for at least the next couple years. And they would be pretty good with that kind of talent with Saunders coaching.

When I said they had no leverage...I'm talking about the fact that they either trade Love or he walks for nothing. There are only a few teams, if that many, that Love would even agree to go to with an assurance he'll stay long term. That was my point. It's not like they can squeeze anyone here...teams will just say good luck with that and move on.

But Love hasn't said that. Like I said, I still think Wiggins would be the best trade for the Wolves, but the other one? Nothing really special about Waiters and Thompson. At this point we can see kinda where they're heading, good players but not great. And as far as draft picks go, with Lebron and Love, those Cleveland picks are very late 1st rounders. From the trades I mentioned, Klay Thompson, Taj Gibson, Rajon Rondo, Eric Bledsoe, and Goran Dragic are all better players then Waiters and Thompson, and Julius Randle, Marcus Smart, and Nikola Mirotic all look like they have more valuable upside then Waiters and Thompson. Not saying that deal is worse. But I don't see how its clearly better then everything else.

[DMAVS41]

But Love hasn't said that. Like I said, I still think Wiggins would be the best trade for the Wolves, but the other one? Nothing really special about Waiters and Thompson. At this point we can see kinda where they're heading, good players but not great. And as far as draft picks go, with Lebron and Love, those Cleveland picks are very late 1st rounders. From the trades I mentioned, Klay Thompson, Taj Gibson, Rajon Rondo, Eric Bledsoe, and Goran Dragic are all better players then Waiters and Thompson, and Julius Randle, Marcus Smart, and Nikola Mirotic all look like they have more valuable upside then Waiters and Thompson. Not saying that deal is worse. But I don't see how its clearly better then everything else.

Rondo makes no sense on Minnesota.
Would Thompson stay? Do you really want Lee?

The Suns offer is legit. No doubt about that, but I'm still not sure it's better without knowing the exact details.

The Bulls offer is also legit.

Disagree about Smart, Randle, and Mirotic...so much unknown.

One of, if not both, the Cavs picks they would be offering would be from trades. They have the Grizzlies pick this year if it's between 6 and 14 and the Heat pick unless it's top 10 this year.

I don't know man. Two really good young players at age 22 and two first round picks while shedding the Martin contract is a pretty damn good deal.

[BallsOut]

Cavs send: Andrew Wiggins, Tristan Thompson, Anderson Verajao, two future 1st round picks
Cavs receive: Kevin Love, Corey Brewer, Ronny Turiaf

Wolves send: Kevin Love, Corey Brewer, Ronny Turiaf
Wolves receive: Andrew Wiggins, Tristan Thompson, Anderson Verajao, two future 1st round picks

Cavs
PG: Irving | Delladova
SG: Brewer | Waiters
SF: Lebron | Karasev
PF: Love | Bennett
C: Haywood | Turiaf

Wolves
PG: Rubio | Barea
SG: Wiggins | Shved
SF: Budinger | Martin
PF: Thompson | Moute
C: Pekovic | Verajao



:bowdown:

[RedBlackAttack]

They aren't getting Wiggins, let alone Wiggins, Thompson and Varejao... and 2 firsts? :oldlol:

Next...

[RedBlackAttack]

I don't even really like Love a ton, but he has become by far the most under-rated player on here.

Underrated?

I don't know how you can say that when dude just created a thread about trading Wiggins, Thompson, Varejao and 2 first round picks for Love and some of Minny's unwanted garbage.

If anything, he's become over-valued... especially since he is going to walk away and they'll get nothing 362 days from today.

[DMAVS41]

Underrated?

I don't know how you can say that when dude just created a thread about trading Wiggins, Thompson, Varejao and 2 first round picks for Love and some of Minny's unwanted garbage.

If anything, he's become over-valued... especially since he is going to walk away and they'll get nothing 362 days from today.


Well, it obviously depends on who's saying shit.

People on here earlier were acting like he's a scrub...

[QuebecBaller]

They aren't getting Wiggins, let alone Wiggins, Thompson and Varejao... and 2 firsts? :oldlol:

Next...

I say: Wiggins + Thompson(or Bennett) for Love

[RedBlackAttack]

I say: Wiggins + Thompson(or Bennett) for Love
I say no.

[BallsOut]

They aren't getting Wiggins, let alone Wiggins, Thompson and Varejao... and 2 firsts? :oldlol:

Next...

That's funny because Cavs offered #1 pick for Kevin Love last month. It was rejected. So they're going to have to offer Wiggins and more if they want a real shot at Love.

[Derka]

Wiggins isn't untouchable. Cavs called up Wolves before draft. Offered #1 for Love. Love rejected it because he didn't want to S&T with Cleveland without Lebron.

Incorrect entirely. Flip rejected it because he doesn't want draft picks; he wants established ball players in exchange for Love. Cavs were entirely willing to make the trade for #1 without a commitment from Love to re-signing.

[RedBlackAttack]

That's funny because Cavs offered #1 pick for Kevin Love last month. It was rejected. So they're going to have to offer Wiggins and more if they want a real shot at Love.
Then they won't get "a real shot at Love" I guess, because Wiggins isn't being traded. Period.

Then again, they will still get "a real shot at Love" when he's a free agent 362 days from today.

[BallsOut]

Incorrect entirely. Flip rejected it because he doesn't want draft picks; he wants established ball players in exchange for Love. Cavs were entirely willing to make the trade for #1 without a commitment from Love to re-signing.

I'm pretty sure Love was the one that rejected it. You have to remember this was before the general public had any idea Lebron was coming back to Cleveland.

[RedBlackAttack]

Incorrect entirely. Flip rejected it because he doesn't want draft picks; he wants established ball players in exchange for Love. Cavs were entirely willing to make the trade for #1 without a commitment from Love to re-signing.
Completely incorrect.

It was widely reported that all talks stopped the minute Love came out and said he wouldn't extend in Cleveland. Then, things heated back up again when his agent said he'd extend if James were here.

[DMAVS41]

I say: Wiggins + Thompson(or Bennett) for Love

That is too much.

Wiggins for Love straight up is about even....just get the money to work with Andy's expiring contract.

Go back and take a look at what Melo was traded for in 2011 at a similar point...

Wiggins, Andy's expiring contract, and a future first round pick for Love/Dieng.

I do that deal, but it sounds like the Cavs won't.

[Derka]

Completely incorrect.

It was widely reported that all talks stopped the minute Love came out and said he wouldn't extend in Cleveland. Then, things heated back up again when his agent said he'd extend if James were here.

I feel like I saw something saying the Cavs were one of the teams who would have taken the risk regardless. My bad on that one.

[BallsOut]

That is too much.

Wiggins for Love straight up is about even....just get the money to work with Andy's expiring contract.

Go back and take a look at what Melo was traded for in 2011 at a similar point...

Wiggins, Andy's expiring contract, and a future first round pick for Love/Dieng.

I do that deal, but it sounds like the Cavs won't.

Salaries don't match. Do you bother to check if your trades even work realistically?

Love makes 15 mill a year. Dieng makes another 2 mill on top. Verejao makes 10 mill. Wiggins 2 mill. They're still short 5 mill. Throw in Tristian Thompson and it's a a feasible trade.

Love and Dieng for Wiggins, Verajao (expirer), Thompson and 2 first round picks.

[PejaNowitzki]

Like who?

Warriors are apparently out.

Who can beat Wiggins and a first rounder or Waiters, Thompson, and 2 first rounders?

I've haven't seen anything close to either of those...



Speculation is that the Suns are considering offering Bledsoe to get Love.


Bledsoe, the Morris twins and 3 1st rounders basically decimates anything else that other teams are offering.

[christian1923]

Why would they have to give up more than wiggins?

I wouldn't trade wiggins alone just for love. Let alone including other valuable pieces like Thompson or draft picks

[FireMcFailPlease]

Then they won't get "a real shot at Love" I guess, because Wiggins isn't being traded. Period.

Then again, they will still get "a real shot at Love" when he's a free agent 362 days from today.
Love isn't gonna go take a discount to live in Cleveland when they wouldnt trade a rookie for him when he'll bolt to the west coast.

[DMAVS41]

Salaries don't match. Do you bother to check if your trades even work realistically?

Love makes 15 mill a year. Dieng makes another 2 mill on top. Verejao makes 10 mill. Wiggins 2 mill. They're still short 5 mill. Throw in Tristian Thompson and it's a a feasible trade.

Love and Dieng for Wiggins, Verajao (expirer), Thompson and 2 first round picks.

What?

Isn't the rookie scale for the first pick in year 1 over 5 million now?

Why would Wiggins make 2 million when Anthony Bennett made 5.3 last year?

And...just no. You don't give up 2 first round picks in addition to a valuable player/contract in Andy...and Wiggins for a player that is trying to force a trade. That is too much for Love.

Wiggins on his rookie contract alone is worth Love for Minnesota over any other offer I've seen.

Pretty sure the numbers work. As I just used the trade machine and it worked...LOL

[RedBlackAttack]

Love isn't gonna go take a discount to live in Cleveland when they wouldnt trade a rookie for him when he'll bolt to the west coast.
If it happens, it happens. But, if he makes it clear that he wants to play in Cleveland, a S&T a year from now is not out of the question. And, the Cavs happen to have what is essentially a huge trade exception in Brendan Haywood.

But, I'm not dead-set on bringing in Love. If he goes West, he goes West.

[RedBlackAttack]

What?

Isn't the rookie scale for the first pick in year 1 over 5 million now?

Why would Wiggins make 2 million when Anthony Bennett made 5.3 last year?

And...just no. You don't give up 2 first round picks in addition to a valuable player/contract in Andy...and Wiggins for a player that is trying to force a trade. That is too much for Love.

Wiggins on his rookie contract alone is worth Love for Minnesota over any other offer I've seen.

Pretty sure the numbers work. As I just used the trade machine and it worked...LOL
He's clueless.

[DMAVS41]

He's clueless.

People have lost their minds on both sides of this.

Wiggins, Thompson, Andy, and 2 first round picks? What the **** are these people on? That is way to much...I don't even know where to begin.

Wiggins on his rookie contract is absolutely the best offer they are going to get. And they could also get Andy's expiring contract and another first round pick.

To me, and I know you don't want to trade Wiggins, but the most fair deal for both sides is;

Love/Dieng for Wiggins, Andy, first rounder...and unless I'm missing something...the numbers work.

[LBJFTW]

How does Minny have no leverage? There's multiple teams that can provide attractive trade options who Love would sign an extension with.

Actually you need to be patient and watch as Love winds up in Cleveland and they keep kyrie and wiggins. Book it.

[BallsOut]

What?

Isn't the rookie scale for the first pick in year 1 over 5 million now?

Why would Wiggins make 2 million when Anthony Bennett made 5.3 last year?

And...just no. You don't give up 2 first round picks in addition to a valuable player/contract in Andy...and Wiggins for a player that is trying to force a trade. That is too much for Love.

Wiggins on his rookie contract alone is worth Love for Minnesota over any other offer I've seen.

Pretty sure the numbers work. As I just used the trade machine and it worked...LOL

Bennett makes 5 mill this year. Overpaid for a bust. I don't think how much he made last season though. It could be 5 mill.

[BallsOut]

People have lost their minds on both sides of this.

Wiggins, Thompson, Andy, and 2 first round picks? What the **** are these people on? That is way to much...I don't even know where to begin.

Wiggins on his rookie contract is absolutely the best offer they are going to get. And they could also get Andy's expiring contract and another first round pick.

To me, and I know you don't want to trade Wiggins, but the most fair deal for both sides is;

Love/Dieng for Wiggins, Andy, first rounder...and unless I'm missing something...the numbers work.

This is an okay trade. However, If they have to give up Dieng, there should be at least 2 first round picks coming back.

[DMAVS41]

Bennett makes 5 mill this year. Overpaid for a bust. I don't think how much he made last season though. It could be 5 mill.

Dude.

He made 5.3 million last year as a rookie. So I ask again why Wiggins would make 2 million?

[DMAVS41]

This is an okay trade. However, If they have to give up Dieng, there should be at least 2 first round picks coming back.

That would be fair, but the Wolves should not get a fair deal. Why would any team offer the Wolves a fair deal?

The Wolves are already ****ed and if Love starts saying he'll only go to the Cavs...that are ****ed even more.

There is no way the Wolves hold the deal up because they don't want to lose Dieng. LOL

That is the best deal the Wolves can get. Basically assured of Wiggins for a long long time. Exactly what they need and want.

[LBJFTW]

Dude.

He made 5.3 million last year as a rookie. So I ask again why Wiggins would make 2 million?

You keep talking about the Cavs trading Wiggins to get Love. It's not going to happen. :lol

[Meticode]

Cavs Won't Trade Wiggins (http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/11209471/cleveland-cavaliers-trade-andrew-wiggins-coach-david-blatt-says)

Good.

[DMAVS41]

You keep talking about the Cavs trading Wiggins to get Love. It's not going to happen. :lol

So what? It not happening doesn't make it smart.

If that is the only way to get Love...the Cavs would be fools to not pull the trigger. Absolute fools...but that is expected with the Cavs...they'll somehow manage to **** up the last 7 years of Lebron's career like they ****ed up his first 7.

Wiggins, Andy, and a first round pick for Love/Dieng is the deal that makes the most sense for both teams...and both teams would be morons to turn it down.

[BallsOut]

Cavs Won't Trade Wiggins (http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/11209471/cleveland-cavaliers-trade-andrew-wiggins-coach-david-blatt-says)

Good.

#1 draft pick for Kevin Love has already been rejected. If Cavs want Love, they need to include Wiggins and more.

[DMAVS41]

#1 draft pick for Kevin Love has already been rejected. If Cavs want Love, they need to include Wiggins and more.

Link please.

Where are you getting this?

[red1]

disgusting trade for the cavs. would never happen

[red1]

#1 draft pick for Kevin Love has already been rejected. If Cavs want Love, they need to include Wiggins and more.
you are just making shit up

[BallsOut]

you are just making shit up

Apparently you have been living under a rock for the past month. Ask anyone. Cavs offered #1 for Love. It was almost instantly rejected.

[RedBlackAttack]

Apparently you have been living under a rock for the past month. Ask anyone. Cavs offered #1 for Love. It was almost instantly rejected.
You are clueless. :oldlol:

[BallsOut]

You are clueless. :oldlol:


The Cleveland Cavaliers offered the No. 1 overall pick, Tristan Thompson and Dion Waiters to the Minnesota Timberwolves for Kevin Love, according to a source.
The Wolves rejected the trade offer and hope to build around Love under Flip Saunders.

Source (http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/228376/Wolves-Reject-Cavs-Offer-Of-No-1-Pick-Waiters-Thompson-For-Kevin-Love)

Get a clue. I want an apology from all you Cleveland homers and Lebron stans.

[red1]

Source (http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/228376/Wolves-Reject-Cavs-Offer-Of-No-1-Pick-Waiters-Thompson-For-Kevin-Love)

Get a clue. I want an apology from all you Cleveland homers and Lebron stans.

The Cleveland Cavaliers offered the No. 1 overall pick, Tristan Thompson and Dion Waiters to the Minnesota Timberwolves for Kevin Love, according to a source.
Maybe you werent pulling it out of your ass but it is still irrelevant. I dont buy it at all. Turn down waiters thompson AND the first pick for a player who has made it clear that he will leave regardless? Smells like BS.

[Kingwillball]

Balls out is afraid Cavs and especially Lebron gets love without giving up wiggins cause he knows it ups his chances for more rings.. Of course he wants Cavs to get depleted in order to get love..

[DMAVS41]

Source (http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/228376/Wolves-Reject-Cavs-Offer-Of-No-1-Pick-Waiters-Thompson-For-Kevin-Love)

Get a clue. I want an apology from all you Cleveland homers and Lebron stans.

The Wolves are ****ing retarded and the worst run franchise ever if this is actually true.

That is the most absurdly one sided trade ever for a player that is leaving in a year.

LOL at the Wovles if true...they'll be lucky to get a deal half as good as that in the future.


And if that is what it really would take...then the Cavs just say no and go luck to get a guy like Monroe or something else with all their assets. They don't have to get Love.

[BallsOut]

Balls out is afraid Cavs and especially Lebron gets love without giving up wiggins cause he knows it ups his chances for more rings.. Of course he wants Cavs to get depleted in order to get love..

Get a grip bandwagoner. Pathetic fans like you can't even choose a team and stick with them. I ain't worried about Lebron's chances. 2/5 is all you need to know when it comes to his chances for winning rings.

[RedBlackAttack]

Source (http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/228376/Wolves-Reject-Cavs-Offer-Of-No-1-Pick-Waiters-Thompson-For-Kevin-Love)

Get a clue. I want an apology from all you Cleveland homers and Lebron stans.
You could find a source indicating virtually any scenario. I have a source that says the Cavs/TWolves/Warriors are working on a deal where Love goes to the Cavs, Klay Thompson and Tristan Thompson to the Wolves and 2 firsts to the Warriors.

Doesn't mean it's true. Besides, those reports came out shortly after Embiid was injured, who the Cavs were in love with. Now, after practicing with and playing Summer League with Wiggins, they're reportedly in love with Wiggins.

It's a completely different scenario now than what it was when this was just a pick. Now they have the player. And he is not going anywhere.

Deal with it.

[BallsOut]

Link please.

Where are you getting this?


The Cleveland Cavaliers offered the No. 1 overall pick, Tristan Thompson and Dion Waiters to the Minnesota Timberwolves for Kevin Love, according to a source.
The Wolves rejected the trade offer and hope to build around Love under Flip Saunders.

Source (http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/228376/Wolves-Reject-Cavs-Offer-Of-No-1-Pick-Waiters-Thompson-For-Kevin-Love)

Man up.

[RedBlackAttack]

Source (http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/228376/Wolves-Reject-Cavs-Offer-Of-No-1-Pick-Waiters-Thompson-For-Kevin-Love)

Man up.

Ahem.


Sources told ESPN that the Cavaliers have informed Wiggins he will not be traded, and Blatt affirmed the franchise's commitment to the former Kansas star, saying he is looking forward to watching him mesh with James.

"I would think for a guy like Andrew, to have the opportunity to play with arguably one of the best players of all time, and to learn from him and to be tutored by him and to play alongside him -- which he will -- I gotta think that's a tremendous boost to his confidence and his comfort level and probably his motivation," Blatt told reporters.

Wiggins scored 18 points in his professional debut Friday, helping the Cavaliers to a 70-68 Summer League win over the Milwaukee Bucks and the draft's No. 2 pick, Jabari Parker.

^^^That's from an hour ago.

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/11209471/cleveland-cavaliers-trade-andrew-wiggins-coach-david-blatt-says

Time to move on.

[BallsOut]

Ahem.



^^^That's from an hour ago.

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/11209471/cleveland-cavaliers-trade-andrew-wiggins-coach-david-blatt-says

Time to move on.

Chris Broussard ‏@Chris_Broussard 3m
Minnesota's current stance: No Wiggins for TWolves, No KLove for Cavs

Time to get a grip.

[RedBlackAttack]

Incorrect entirely. Flip rejected it because he doesn't want draft picks; he wants established ball players in exchange for Love. Cavs were entirely willing to make the trade for #1 without a commitment from Love to re-signing.
Just to follow-up on this remark...

Adrian Wojnarowski @WojYahooNBA


Cleveland pushed on deal centered on No. 1 pick for Kevin Love, but his refusal to re-sign w/ Cavs has killed talks, sources tell Yahoo.

[QUOTE]The Cleveland Cavaliers reportedly tried to acquire Kevin Love in a deal centered around the Cavs

[RedBlackAttack]

Chris Broussard ‏@Chris_Broussard 3m
Minnesota's current stance: No Wiggins for TWolves, No KLove for Cavs

Time to get a grip.
Then the two teams are in agreement. Fair enough.

Better find something good quick, though, because the clock is ticking for the Timberwolves.

[Kingwillball]

Get a grip bandwagoner. Pathetic fans like you can't even choose a team and stick with them. I ain't worried about Lebron's chances. 2/5 is all you need to know when it comes to his chances for winning rings.

And I am saying they could get love giving up waiters and TT or Bennett plus picks..

[red1]

And I am saying they could get love giving up waiters and TT or Bennett plus picks..
who's going to give the wolves a better package than that?

[BallsOut]

Then the two teams are in agreement. Fair enough.

Better find something good quick, though, because the clock is ticking for the Timberwolves.

Minnesota doesn't have to act quickly. In fact it would be in their best interest to wait until after the season to make a move. Just like Orlando with Dwight Howard. They still managed to get Andrew Bynum and a couple of first round picks from the Lakers in return after waiting the whole year.

The only fans in a hurry are the Cavs fans. Why should Minnesota help Cleveland at their own expense?

[RedBlackAttack]

Minnesota doesn't have to act quickly. In fact it would be in their best interest to wait until after the season to make a move. Just like Orlando with Dwight Howard. They still managed to get Andrew Bynum and a couple of first round picks from the Lakers in return after waiting the whole year.

The only fans in a hurry are the Cavs fans. Why should Minnesota help Cleveland at their own expense?
I'm not in a hurry at all. I love the Cavs' young talent and I think LeBron's presence is going to be great for guys like Tristan and Bennett. There's no reason to rush it, but there is a time consideration for Minnesota. The Cavs will likely have Wiggins for the next eight years at least if they want him.

Love is out of there this time next year. Minnesota may not feel the pressure right now, but if they wait until the deadline, they are playing a risky game of chance. Then, they really are up against the wall and the clock really will be ticking.

[BallsOut]

Love is out of there this time next year. Minnesota may not feel the pressure right now, but if they wait until the deadline, they are playing a risky game of chance. Then, they really are up against the wall and the clock really will be ticking.

Minnesota has all the leverage here. They can wait for better offers because there have been better offers and there likely will be better offers. As the season progresses, more suitors will be making calls about Love. It would be in the team's best interest to wait and see.

[ArbitraryWater]

Wait, Love doesn't want to go to Cleveland??

[RedBlackAttack]

Minnesota has all the leverage here. They can wait for better offers because there have been better offers and there likely will be better offers. As the season progresses, more suitors will be making calls about Love. It would be in the team's best interest to wait and see.
They actually have very little leverage because no one is giving up a valuable package for Love unless he agrees to extend with the team he is going to. As far as I can tell, that looks like three possibilities right now... Cleveland, Boston and Golden State.

It isn't like there is going to be a league-wide bidding war for Love. He basically eliminates 80 percent of the league right from the jump.

I don't even care what they could potentially get for Love. As long as Wiggins isn't on the list, which he isn't, I couldn't care less.

[RedBlackAttack]

Wait, Love doesn't want to go to Cleveland??
That was before James made his decision. He's made it clear he'd re-sign in Cleveland now. I was just clarifying because someone said earlier that the Cavs were willing to trade the No. 1 pick with or without a commitment from Love. That was untrue.

[BallsOut]

They actually have very little leverage because no one is giving up a valuable package for Love unless he agrees to extend with the team he is going to. As far as I can tell, that looks like three possibilities right now... Cleveland, Boston and Golden State.

It isn't like there is going to be a league-wide bidding war for Love. He basically eliminates 80 percent of the league right from the jump.

I don't even care what they could potentially get for Love. As long as Wiggins isn't on the list, which he isn't, I couldn't care less.

Add New York, Chicago and the Lakers to the list of teams Love has expressed interest in playing with long term in addition to your list. That's 6 teams total and we haven't even gotten through summer yet. When was the last time a single player had 6 teams going for him?

Love is a rare player in today's game. Minnesota should be in absolutely no rush to trade him. They need to take their time and weigh all of their options thoroughly. And if that takes all the way to the deadline or next offseason, so be it. Wait and get the best deal you can get.

[BallsOut]

Wait, Love doesn't want to go to Cleveland??

Cleveland ain't exactly the best city to be in America. You saw those Cleveland fans lining up at Lebron's house the day it was speculated that he'd announce his decision. Scary moment.

[DMAVS41]

Minnesota has all the leverage here. They can wait for better offers because there have been better offers and there likely will be better offers. As the season progresses, more suitors will be making calls about Love. It would be in the team's best interest to wait and see.

The exact opposite.

The longer they wait...the more of the season they waste. You think it's in their best interest to have a team out there being asked more about Kevin Love trade rumors than actual basketball?

No. You do the smart thing and trade Love before the season.

Also, thanks for the link. Like I said before, if true, the Wolves are straight up retarded for turning that down.

Do I believe that was real? Hell no, I can't imagine a team is dumb enough to offer that for ****ing Kevin Love. And a team is dumb enough to turn that down.

But we are dealing with two of the most inept franchises...so anything is possible.

[BallsOut]

The exact opposite.

The longer they wait...the more of the season they waste. You think it's in their best interest to have a team out there being asked more about Kevin Love trade rumors than actual basketball?

No. You do the smart thing and trade Love before the season.

Also, thanks for the link. Like I said before, if true, the Wolves are straight up retarded for turning that down.

Do I believe that was real? Hell no, I can't imagine a team is dumb enough to offer that for ****ing Kevin Love. And a team is dumb enough to turn that down.

But we are dealing with two of the most inept franchises...so anything is possible.

At the end of the year you take the best deal. Not at the end of the day. How is a deal for Love centered around Waiters + Thompson + picks going to make Minnesota any better this year? It doesn't. In fact, it probably makes them worse. Not enough to make the playoffs, and not enough to be in the lottery.

You don't just throw away your franchise player because it creates a disturbance with the rest of the team. You play it smart, play it safe and not let those disturbances pressure you into making a hasty move that may leave you in mediocrity for the next several years. In this day and age and in the new CBA, you have to think more than twice, more than three times about any trade you make and the possible ramifications of how it affects your team's financial flexibility going forward.

Minnesota would be wise to follow what Orlando had done for Dwight. Let the season play out while you field offers. Wait until the offseason and packaged him for Bynum, who was widely regarded as the 2nd best Center at the time and a couple of first round picks. Great return for a franchise player that wanted out.

You don't trade a franchise superstar player like Kevin Love for glorified role players. You trade him to potentially get another superstar player of his calibur back. And only Wiggins has that potential on the Cavs. If Cleveland calls and asks for any trade without including Wiggins and I'm Minnesota, I laugh and immediately hang up the phone.

[SwishSquared]

At the end of the year you take the best deal. Not at the end of the day. How is a deal for Love centered around Waiters + Thompson + picks going to make Minnesota any better this year? It doesn't. In fact, it probably makes them worse. Not enough to make the playoffs, and not enough to be in the lottery.

You don't just throw away your franchise player because it creates a disturbance with the rest of the team. You play it smart, play it safe and not let those disturbances pressure you into making a hasty move that may leave you in mediocrity for the next several years. In this day and age and in the new CBA, you have to think more than twice, more than three times about any trade you make and the possible ramifications of how it affects your team's financial flexibility going forward.

Minnesota would be wise to follow what Orlando had done for Dwight. Let the season play out while you field offers. Wait until the offseason and packaged him for Bynum, who was widely regarded as the 2nd best Center at the time and a couple of first round picks. Great return for a franchise player that wanted out.

You don't trade a franchise superstar player like Kevin Love for glorified role players. You trade him to potentially get another superstar player of his calibur back. And only Wiggins has that potential on the Cavs. If Cleveland calls and asks for any trade without including Wiggins and I'm Minnesota, I laugh and immediately hang up the phone.
You do realize at the end of next season Love can become an unrestricted FA, which he has made fully clear to Minnesota he will opt out. At that point, you can't wait for the end of the year. Dwight waived his ETO, meaning he waived his right to become an unrestricted FA one year early. Love is not doing that. They literally have less than a calendar year to get a return for him. That's the point DMAVS41 is making. It's unlikely that they can get a S&T for him next summer and teams like Cleveland can make the necessary moves to clear a max slot for him. Minnesota is on the clock and they can wait until the trade deadline to get a haul for him. It's Flip's call.

[DMAVS41]

At the end of the year you take the best deal. Not at the end of the day. How is a deal for Love centered around Waiters + Thompson + picks going to make Minnesota any better this year? It doesn't. In fact, it probably makes them worse. Not enough to make the playoffs, and not enough to be in the lottery.

You don't just throw away your franchise player because it creates a disturbance with the rest of the team. You play it smart, play it safe and not let those disturbances pressure you into making a hasty move that may leave you in mediocrity for the next several years. In this day and age and in the new CBA, you have to think more than twice, more than three times about any trade you make and the possible ramifications of how it affects your team's financial flexibility going forward.

Minnesota would be wise to follow what Orlando had done for Dwight. Let the season play out while you field offers. Wait until the offseason and packaged him for Bynum, who was widely regarded as the 2nd best Center at the time and a couple of first round picks. Great return for a franchise player that wanted out.

You don't trade a franchise superstar player like Kevin Love for glorified role players. You trade him to potentially get another superstar player of his calibur back. And only Wiggins has that potential on the Cavs. If Cleveland calls and asks for any trade without including Wiggins and I'm Minnesota, I laugh and immediately hang up the phone.

What are you talking about? End of year?

I'm not saying the Wolves should for sure accept the Cavs deal without Wiggins...I'm saying that they should move Love as soon as possible in order to avoid wasting a year...or teams just being willing to try their luck in free agency.

Are you so dense that you can't see that the Wolves might lose him for nothing?????? And waste a year in the process...

[BallsOut]

I'm not saying the Wolves should for sure accept the Cavs deal without Wiggins...

Wolves should expect at least Wiggins back in any trade for Love.

[RedBlackAttack]

Wolves should expect at least Wiggins back in any trade for Love.
Well, they aren't getting him so I think it is high time to move on. Look at the other possibilities. It's really pretty simple.

[DMAVS41]

Wolves should expect at least Wiggins back in any trade for Love.

No, they really shouldn't.

They are trading a player that is going to walk if they don't. They have no leverage.

The other Cavs offers might not be enough for them...I get that, but they should not expect Wiggins. That is absurdly good value for a player about to leave them for nothing.

Again, look at the Melo deal. That is what you should expect. Not the number 1 pick on his rookie contract.

[Carbine]

The longer they wait, the less value they will get league wide.

Adding a player at the deadline isn't ideal for the team trading for him. Basically no practice time to get acquainted with the new team.

Much more valuable getting him for a full training camp and pre-season to build chemistry.

[BallsOut]

Cavs send: Andrew Wiggins, Tristan Thompson, Anderson Verajao, Dion Waiters & two 1st rd picks
Cavs get: Kevin Love, Corey Brewer, Ronny Turiaf, and Jose Barea

Wolves send: Kevin Love, Corey Brewer, Ronny Turiaf, and Jose Barea
Wolves get: Andrew Wiggins, Tristan Thompson, Anderson Verajao, Dion Waiters & two 1st rd picks

Cavs
PG: Irving | Barea
SG: Allen | Brewer
SF: Miller | Bennett
PF: Lebron | Turiaf
C: Love | Haywood

Wolves
PG: Rubio | Waiters
SG: Wiggins | Shved
SF: Budinger | Martin
PF: Thompson | Moute
C: Pekovic | Verajao


Wolves get some young guys. Cavs become championship favorites. Both teams win. :bowdown:

[Carbine]

You know how I know you haven't seen more than 3 games of Waiters?

Listing him as a PG.

Dude is a natural born scorer.

[RedBlackAttack]

Wolves get some young guys. Cavs become championship favorites. Both teams win. :bowdown:
Yeah... no. :oldlol:

That is flat-out awful. And why do you have Waiters listed as a PG and Love a center?

[BallsOut]

Yeah... no. :oldlol:

That is flat-out awful. And why do you have Waiters listed as a PG and Love a center?

Because Lebron likes his teams playing small ball. Doesn't it remind you of Miami's championship lineup?

In Miami...
PG: Wade
SG: Allen
SF: Lebron
PF: Miller
C: Bosh

In Cleveland...
PG: Irving
SG: Allen
SF: Lebron
PF: Miller
C: Love

The Cavs are slowing turning into what you most dread. A team comprised of Lebron and his mercenaries playing small ball with Irving replacing Wade and Love replacing Bosh. It's going to happen. The sooner we accept it, the better.

[04mzwach]

Wolves win more games, Cavs still miss playoffs due to Love.
You're very delusional. If you want to blame somebody for the Wolves not making the playoffs then blame Rubio. I think the Wolves have had the only starting point guard in the league that can't shoot or finish at the rim in the past few years. Defenses don't have to worry about Rubio driving or shooting and that's a huge problem obviously. Go figure that we drafted 3 point guards in 2009 and we still don't have one that is a solid starting point guard. Our second option for PG has been Barea and he's not even 6 feet tall so he can't defend. So we have the option of the guy who can shoot and drive, but can't defend or the guy who can kind of defend but can't shoot or drive. Take your pick. :facepalm

[04mzwach]

Wolves should expect at least Wiggins back in any trade for Love.
And if the Wolves can't get him then they should pass and play Love through at least to the deadline. There's no telling how well we'll do.

[RedBlackAttack]

Because Lebron likes his teams playing small ball. Doesn't it remind you of Miami's championship lineup?

Have you seen Love play defense?

[BallsOut]

Have you seen Love play defense?

Can't be much worse than Bosh's defense.

[RedBlackAttack]

Can't be much worse than Bosh's defense.
In Miami's hedging/trapping system, Bosh was actually perfect with his quickness, length and versatility. They couldn't play the way they did defensively if you replaced Bosh with Love.

Kevin Love makes Chris Bosh look like Dennis Rodman. He's a better offensive player and rebounder, though.

[BallsOut]

In Miami's hedging/trapping system, Bosh was actually perfect with his quickness, length and versatility. They couldn't play the way they did defensively if you replaced Bosh with Love.

Kevin Love makes Chris Bosh look like Dennis Rodman. He's a better offensive player and rebounder, though.

Love's defense rebounding should make up for his lack of lateral quickness. What do you think of that trade by the way? What would happen if it went down?

[(e)]

If I'm the Twolves, I'm asking for...

Wiggins, Thompson, Waiters and a pick for Love.

Not saying they'd get that, but I wouldn't even consider dealing Love if Wiggins wasn't included. Also, wouldn't even touch Bennett, would have to have 3 first rounders included to even consider it - he's a net negative asset to me with that contract.

[Meticode]

Can't be much worse than Bosh's defense.
Bosh is actually underrated defensively. I always felt anyway.

Draft Express' defensive scouting video of Bosh.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8bCBIzhOO4#t=428

[Kingwillball]

Wolves get some young guys. Cavs become championship favorites. Both teams win. :bowdown:

Utterly terrible trade for Cavs giving up potentially 4 starters for 1 plus picks.. U are out of your mind trading that for a guy who can leave on his own after this year. Waiters and Bennett or TT should do it..

[RedBlackAttack]

What do you think of that trade by the way?
It's awful.


What would happen if it went down?

I'd probably rage. On here and IRL.

[Kingwillball]

If I'm the Twolves, I'm asking for...

Wiggins, Thompson, Waiters and a pick for Love.

Not saying they'd get that, but I wouldn't even consider dealing Love if Wiggins wasn't included. Also, wouldn't even touch Bennett, would have to have 3 first rounders included to even consider it - he's a net negative asset to me with that contract.

Well lucky for Cavs that is not happening..

[Trollsmasher]

:roll: at this trade

[RedBlackAttack]

If I'm the Twolves, I'm asking for...

Wiggins, Thompson, Waiters and a pick for Love.

Not saying they'd get that, but I wouldn't even consider dealing Love if Wiggins wasn't included. Also, wouldn't even touch Bennett, would have to have 3 first rounders included to even consider it - he's a net negative asset to me with that contract.
And if I'm the Cavs, I very nicely tell the Wolves they should probably get back to that Harrison Barnes + David Lee offer that the Warriors have extended.

It's amazing to me how little people are talking about that putrid offer and its implications on the Wolves' ability to demand anything.

[04mzwach]

Austin Carr's son says the deal is done but I don't know to believe it. So many fake things going on. Wiggins, Bennett, 1st if they're right. It's probably fake..

[RedBlackAttack]

Austin Carr's son says the deal is done but I don't know to believe it. So many fake things going on. Wiggins, Bennett, 1st if they're right. It's probably fake..
Yeah, you probably shouldn't believe it. I can't imagine AC being told anything remotely confidential, let alone his son. :oldlol:

[04mzwach]

According to Chris Sheridan, it'll take Thompson from GS or Wiggins from Cavs to make a deal happen.

[RedBlackAttack]

According to Chris Sheridan, it'll take Thompson from GS or Wiggins from Cavs to make a deal happen.
Sheridan is a dipsh!t, fwiw. Not disputing the idea that the TWolves are currently maintaining this position. But, I wouldn't trust a word that guy has to say.

[fragokota]

RBA, would you take a Wiggins/Love trade str8 up(hypotheticaly the salaries match)?

[RedBlackAttack]

RBA, would you take a Wiggins/Love trade str8 up(hypotheticaly the salaries match)?
It depends what other offers were out there. If the best other offer was Barnes/Lee, then no.

[fragokota]

It depends what other offers were out there. If the best other offer was Barnes/Lee, then no.

I must say i'm buffled by this.I can understand how you don't want to give up multiple players for an expiring contract,but this goes beyond me.It's not like you will surely be able to sign him for free next summer.

[LA_Showtime]

Why would that want Thompson to begin with? He's overrated, isn't great at creating his own shot, and they'd have to pay him close to the max, if not the max, to re-sign him.

[Meticode]

Sheridan is a dipsh!t, fwiw. Not disputing the idea that the TWolves are currently maintaining this position. But, I wouldn't trust a word that guy has to say.
So I'm guessing you feel he took a crap shoot on the LeBron to Cavs and was right?

[04mzwach]

I'm thinking this trade shouldn't happen. The Cavs aren't offering anything really. GS is offering better.

[AKADS]

Cant wait till Love gets"hurt" and sits out and needs rest for the first half of the season and Minny gets pennies on the dollar for him.

[RedBlackAttack]

So I'm guessing you feel he took a crap shoot on the LeBron to Cavs and was right?
No doubt in my mind. Nothing to lose... took a shot on what looked to be a likely outcome and got lucky. He also said the Cavs were taking Jabari Parker in an article just before the draft, btw. He cited "sources with the organization."

[RedBlackAttack]

Why would that want Thompson to begin with? He's overrated, isn't great at creating his own shot, and they'd have to pay him close to the max, if not the max, to re-sign him.
I've been asking the same question for a week. Saunders apparently wants the incredible privilege of paying Klay Thompson $15-20 million. :oldlol: :confusedshrug:

[Meticode]

No doubt in my mind. Nothing to lose... took a shot on what looked to be a likely outcome and got lucky. He also said the Cavs were taking Jabari Parker in an article just before the draft, btw. He cited "sources with the organization."
I seem to agree with you, or he truly believed his source of he had one. He said for sure it was going to be announced on lebronjames.com and that never happened. :lol

[RedBlackAttack]

I must say i'm buffled by this.I can understand how you don't want to give up multiple players for an expiring contract,but this goes beyond me.It's not like you will surely be able to sign him for free next summer.
There are lots of factors involved. I have mixed emotions about the whole "Super Team" ideal in the first place... guys already established elsewhere who join stacked teams in their prime. I railed against such practices when it was going on elsewhere, so it feels a bit hypocritical to now turn around and embrace the same kind of thing in Cleveland.

If given the choice, I'd much rather win with a team that was groomed together, went through ups and downs together, and grew into a team in Cleveland as opposed to going after the biggest names possible and pushing all of the chips into the middle of the table for a relatively short window. And, yes, I know Love is only 25, but Wiggins is 19.

In respect to either choosing a Super Team or creating a grassroots contender, I am much more a Spurs guy than a Heat guy as far as philosophy goes.

I feel like the Cavs have a legitimate chance to build something special that could go beyond a 5-year window if they play this the right way.


But, I know there is a sentiment out there that I should just give up any ideas about longterm strategy and personal ideals to get that one elusive title. It just isn't the way I'm hard-wired though. Getting LeBron James, Kevin Love, Ray Allen, Mike Miller, etc. all in the same offseason seems a bit like... I don't know... gaming the system.

[SwishSquared]

Sheridan is a dipsh!t, fwiw. Not disputing the idea that the TWolves are currently maintaining this position. But, I wouldn't trust a word that guy has to say.
Flip's just drawing a line in the sand, but at this point, Cavs sit back and wait. Minnesota has more to lose than Cavs. If Flip really wants to trot out a starting line-up for 2015-2016 (assuming Klay gets max and Rubio gets $8M/year) of:

Rubio-Klay-Brewer-Lee-Pekovic

That line-up will cost like $55M of a cap projected to be at what, $66-68M? Throw in guys obtained through draft and FA, that's a line-up likely missing playoffs and accounting for bench players/roster holds, is capped out. Pricey fringe playoff team.

[fragokota]

There are lots of factors involved. I have mixed emotions about the whole "Super Team" ideal in the first place... guys already established elsewhere who join stacked teams in their prime. I railed against such practices when it was going on elsewhere, so it feels a bit hypocritical to now turn around and embrace the same kind of thing in Cleveland.

If given the choice, I'd much rather win with a team that was groomed together, went through ups and downs together, and grew into a team in Cleveland as opposed to going after the biggest names possible and pushing all of the chips into the middle of the table for a relatively short window. And, yes, I know Love is only 25, but Wiggins is 19.

In the respect of either choosing a Super Team or creating a grassroots contender, I am much more a Spurs guy than a Heat guy as far as philosophy goes.

I feel like the Cavs have a legitimate chance to build something special that could go beyond a 5-year window if they play this the right way.


But, I know there is a sentiment out there that I should just give up any ideas about longterm strategy to get that one elusive title. It just isn't the way I'm hard-wired though. Getting LeBron James, Kevin Love, Ray Allen, Mike Miller, etc. all in the same offseason seems a bit like... I don't know... gaming the system.

Great post, i respect the way you think,even though i may disagree partly. :cheers:

[Kingwillball]

There are lots of factors involved. I have mixed emotions about the whole "Super Team" ideal in the first place... guys already established elsewhere who join stacked teams in their prime. I railed against such practices when it was going on elsewhere, so it feels a bit hypocritical to now turn around and embrace the same kind of thing in Cleveland.

If given the choice, I'd much rather win with a team that was groomed together, went through ups and downs together, and grew into a team in Cleveland as opposed to going after the biggest names possible and pushing all of the chips into the middle of the table for a relatively short window. And, yes, I know Love is only 25, but Wiggins is 19.

In the respect of either choosing a Super Team or creating a grassroots contender, I am much more a Spurs guy than a Heat guy as far as philosophy goes.

I feel like the Cavs have a legitimate chance to build something special that could go beyond a 5-year window if they play this the right way.


But, I know there is a sentiment out there that I should just give up any ideas about longterm strategy to get that one elusive title. It just isn't the way I'm hard-wired though.

Problem with that is Lebron did not come here to waste his last couple years of his prime with a young franchise that has no chance at a ship.. Lebron owes the city and franchise a championship he promised but the franchise needs to put him and team
In the best position to deliver on it while he still is dominant.

[RedBlackAttack]

Problem with that is Lebron did not come here to waste his last couple years of his prime with a young franchise that has no chance at a ship.. Lebron owes the city and franchise a championship he promised but the franchise needs to put him and team
In the best position to deliver on it while he still is dominant.
I had mixed emotions about James coming back in the first place. I'm certainly not going to change the way I think because he's now back on the team. There's a part of me that just really wishes Love would either stay in Minnesota or go to Golden State... so this thing can end and Cavs fans can get back to being excited about what we already have.

I feel like James is a great enough player to where he doesn't need an army of stars everywhere he goes to win. I've been waiting for him to realize it and embrace the more difficult road, as he said in his essay. All of this Love stuff makes me wonder if he really believes what he wrote, tbh.

[Kingwillball]

I had mixed emotions about James coming back in the first place. I'm certainly not going to change the way I think because he's now back on the team. There's a part of me that just really wishes Love would either stay in Minnesota or go to Golden State... so this thing can end and Cavs fans can get back to being excited about what we already have.

I feel like James is a great enough player to where he doesn't need an army of stars everywhere he goes to win. I've been waiting for him to realize it and embrace the more difficult road, as he said in his essay. All of this Love stuff makes me wonder if he really believes what he wrote, tbh.

I think he knows without love it will be harder with young unproven roster but with Love no guarantees either but he obviously figures he has a much better chance. Love is an unproven Playoff commodity but Lebron knows he is a very good player and knows he can fill that Bosh role and than some. Love can average 18 and 10 in his sleep on Clev and if Lebron takes more of facilitator role can average 20-22. I think part of Lebron wanting Love is not only improves championship chances near term but also will take some of the pressure off him to have to do everything all the time taking some of the tread off his tires as well especially come Playoff time.

[RedBlackAttack]

I think he knows without love it will be harder with young unproven roster but with Love no guarantees either but he obviously figures he has a much better chance. Love is an unproven Playoff commodity but Lebron knows he is a very good player and knows he can fill that Bosh role and than some. Love can average 18 and 10 in his sleep on Clev and if Lebron takes more of facilitator role can average 20-22. I think part of Lebron wanting Love is not only improves championship chances near term but also will take some of the pressure off him to have to do everything all the time taking some of the tread off his tires as well especially come Playoff time.
The only thing I know about James when it comes to Kevin Love is that he reportedly reached out to Love about the idea. That was reported by Woj, so we can pretty much take it to the bank. Outside of that, I don't know his stance on specific roster moves.

I just really hope he's not pressuring the front office behind the scenes. He should really have no role in team-building. Just because you're a great player does not mean you're a great GM. There's no better case than that of Michael Jordan. He needs to trust the people who are paid to make decisions and leave it at that.

For instance, I have nothing to prove it, but I get the idea that Tristan Thompson is now essentially out of trade discussions because he has the same agent as James and they are friends. We talked about that earlier in this thread. That's the kind of thing that really scares me, and I like Tristan.

If the front office believes in Wiggins -- who is the freaking No. 1 pick in a loaded draft -- he should absolutely be off the table in trade discussions, imo. If James is behind the scenes, pressuring them to make a deal, that scares me.

When all of the LeBron bandwagoners have fled the scene, I'm still going to be watching the Cavs every night. It's nice knowing that, when the day comes that LeBron can no longer do the things he does, we have another potential superstar in the wings. Losing that would be incredibly scary for real fans of this organization.

The LeBron fans need to realize that this team isn't all about them and their short-term fantasies. I've watched every Cavs game from 2011-14 and I'll be watching after James retires.

[NattyPButter]

The only thing I know about James when it comes to Kevin Love is that he reportedly reached out to Love about the idea. That was reported by Woj, so we can pretty much take it to the bank. Outside of that, I don't know his stance on specific roster moves.

I just really hope he's not pressuring the front office behind the scenes. He should really have no role in team-building. Just because you're a great player does not mean you're a great GM. There's no better case than that of Michael Jordan. He needs to trust the people who are paid to make decisions and leave it at that.

For instance, I have nothing to prove it, but I get the idea that Tristan Thompson is now essentially out of trade discussions because he has the same agent as James and they are friends. We talked about that earlier in this thread. That's the kind of thing that really scares me, and I like Tristan.

If the front office believes in Wiggins -- who is the freaking No. 1 pick in a loaded draft -- he should absolutely be off the table in trade discussions, imo. If James is behind the scenes, pressuring them to make a deal, that scares me.

When all of the LeBron bandwagoners have fled the scene, I'm still going to be watching the Cavs every night. It's nice knowing that, when the day comes that LeBron can no longer do the things he does, we have another potential superstar in the wings. Losing that would be incredibly scary for real fans of this organization.

The LeBron fans need to realize that this team isn't all about them and their short-term fantasies. I've watched every Cavs game from 2011-14 and I'll be watching after James retires.

that's what it seems like to me a bunch of Lebron bandwagon fans trying to destroy the Cavs roster to see another big 3 for Lebron. Then you have the Minny fans also doing the same thing.

[04mzwach]

I'd much rather wait until during the season when players get injured and some teams fall below the expectations of what they thought they would be. That's when the real trade offers will come into play.

[Meticode]

that's what it seems like to me a bunch of Lebron bandwagon fans trying to destroy the Cavs roster to see another big 3 for Lebron. Then you have the Minny fans also doing the same thing.
We shouldn't be so concerned with stans.

[Meticode]

I'd much rather wait until during the season when players get injured and some teams fall below the expectations of what they thought they would be. That's when the real trade offers will come into play.
I think this is partly pro-Love people are worried about. It's possibly the Flip turns the team around and puts them into the position to make the playoffs to sway Love to stay.

[Pointguard]

I like Love and think he's a stellar player but the Cavs with him are undersized, not quick a foot, defensively weak, don't get fouls and are not deep. Love's first playoffs are going to be a bit of a shock and his shot will likely suffer. If they play Chicago he's not getting open threes, they are going to go over the top of him and expose his lack of defense, after Washington and Indiana already had the honors. They are not coming out the East this year unless they address at least two of those weaknesses I mentioned above: They will definitely lose in the championship without addressing four of them.

[Dragic4Life]

As long as we get Love, anybody on the roster aside from Lebron is up for grab.

[RedBlackAttack]

As long as we get Love, anybody on the roster aside from Lebron is up for grab.
Go away.

TIA

[RedBlackAttack]

I'm going to split this post up, because there are a few things going on here...


First, Jeff Goodman, a writer for ESPN.com was on ESPN earlier tonight discussing the current state of the Cavs/Wolves trade talks.

I didn't see the his report, but I did get a summary of what he said. The most interesting piece of information revealed is that the Wolves reportedly want Anthony Bennett as part of the deal.

That's the first time I've actually heard that vocalized, though I have suspected it and, with the way he looked in SL and his massive loss of weight combined with the work he has put in during the offseason, that would be a sticking point for me if I'm Minnesota. For instance, if I'm them, I would much rather have AB than Tristan Thompson.



Secondly, Like with the LeBron stuff that I heard in the weeks leading up to his decision through the Cavs diehard "grapevine," so to speak, I'm also going to give the board an indication of what I'm hearing from the people I trust to have actual inside intel.

I'm not saying that any of this is full-proof or that things can't change, even if it is currently true... but I'm assuming the board would be interested in the things I'm hearing so I'll post it. Don't get mad at me if you don't like these "leaks." I'm just playing role of messenger.

So, from the same person who told me LeBron was "100-percent coming back" a good week before it actually happened and before it was really considered the most likely choice, I'm now hearing that this deal is essentially done.


Love is coming to Cleveland. It is not yet known what is outgoing, but it doesn't sound as if Wiggins is a part of the deal. The only thing I know for sure is that both Waiters and Wiggins will not be moved together. It would be one or the other for obvious reasons.

I trust the source enough to believe that this thing is all but finished, but for now, we can only theorize who is gong out for the Cavs.

Since Wiggins has yet to be signed, it seems highly unlikely that he would be included. The reason is very simple... the Cavs are going to have a hard enough time matching salary with Love if Wiggins' rookie deal (roughly $6 million) is not counting against the cap yet.

If Wiggins were being included, it would make all the sense in the world to sign him now, wait out the 30-day moratorium and then make the trade. It would require much less maneuvering and less outgoing parts for the Cavs.


All of that said, myself and others who are privy to the info have theorized that the most likely deal is something in the neighborhood of Anthony Bennett, Dion Waiters, Carrick Felix, Brendan Haywood and probably 2-3 first round picks (Memphis, Miami, our 2018 pick).

Keep in mind that Haywood's contract is essentially an $11 million trade exception next season, so it does have value. Delladova could also be a part of the deal in either the Felix or Haywood spot.


Take it for what it's worth. Just thought I'd inform the board of what I'm hearing. I'll keep everyone informed if I hear anything more concrete, but I'm now assuming Love will be on the preseason roster for the Cavs one way or the other.

[DMAVS41]

I'm going to split this post up, because there are a few things going on here...


First, Jeff Goodman, a writer for ESPN.com was on ESPN earlier tonight discussing the current state of the Cavs/Wolves trade talks.

I didn't see the his report, but I did get a summary of what he said. The most interesting piece of information revealed is that the Wolves reportedly want Anthony Bennett as part of the deal.

That's the first time I've actually heard that vocalized, though I have suspected it and, with the way he looked in SL and his massive loss of weight combined with the work he has put in during the offseason, that would be a sticking point for me if I'm Minnesota. For instance, if I'm them, I would much rather have AB than Tristan Thompson.



Secondly, Like with the LeBron stuff that I heard in the weeks leading up to his decision through the Cavs diehard "grapevine," so to speak, I'm also going to give the board an indication of what I'm hearing from the people I trust to have actual inside intel.

I'm not saying that any of this is full-proof or that things can't change, even if it is currently true... but I'm assuming the board would be interested in the things I'm hearing so I'll post it. Don't get mad at me if you don't like these "leaks." I'm just playing role of messenger.

So, from the same person who told me LeBron was "100-percent coming back" a good week before it actually happened and before it was really considered the most likely choice, I'm now hearing that this deal is essentially done.


Love is coming to Cleveland. It is not yet known what is outgoing, but it doesn't sound as if Wiggins is a part of the deal. The only thing I know for sure is that both Waiters and Wiggins will not be moved together. It would be one or the other for obvious reasons.

I trust the source enough to believe that this thing is all but finished, but for now, we can only theorize who is gong out for the Cavs.

Since Wiggins has yet to be signed, it seems highly unlikely that he would be included. The reason is very simple... the Cavs are going to have a hard enough time matching salary with Love if Wiggins' rookie deal (roughly $6 million) is not counting against the cap yet.

If Wiggins were being included, it would make all the sense in the world to sign him now, wait out the 30-day moratorium and then make the trade. It would require much less maneuvering and less outgoing parts for the Cavs.


All of that said, myself and others who are privy to the info have theorized that the most likely deal is something in the neighborhood of Anthony Bennett, Dion Waiters, Carrick Felix, Brendan Haywood and probably 2-3 first round picks (Memphis, Miami, our 2018 pick).

Keep in mind that Haywood's contract is essentially an $11 million trade exception next season, so it does have value. Delladova could also be a part of the deal in either the Felix or Haywood spot.


Take it for what it's worth. Just thought I'd inform the board of what I'm hearing. I'll keep everyone informed if I hear anything more concrete, but I'm now assuming Love will be on the preseason roster for the Cavs one way or the other.

The reason the Wolves want AB and not Thompson is because AB has 3 years left before he could potentially not accept his QO. Thompson will almost for sure not accept his QO this summer. There might be some on court things, but that is likely the big reason.

Hopefully you guys don't lose Delladova as well, I like him and the depth on the Cavs would be gutted losing that many rotation players along with 2 or 3 draft picks. Did we ever figure out how many picks a team can send in a single trade? There were people on here claiming it could only be 2.

I just ran the trade machine;

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=oaghle4

So the money works. I still say Dieng should be a must coming back...and hopefully the Cavs are smart enough to get him. I'm a little surprised that the Wolves aren't going to try and shed Martin in this deal also. Perhaps they could get a 3rd team involved and send out a pick and Martin for an expiring contract. Although if they really want to make the playoffs...maybe the keep him in a backup/6th man type role.

Maybe they could send out Brewer/Shved and one of the first rounders from the Cavs (the Heat or Grizzlies pick) for Thad Young.

[JtotheIzzo]

The reason the Wolves want AB and not Thompson is because AB has 3 years left before he could potentially not accept his QO. Thompson will almost for sure not accept his QO this summer. There might be some on court things, but that is likely the big reason.

Hopefully you guys don't lose Delladova as well, I like him and the depth on the Cavs would be gutted losing that many rotation players along with 2 or 3 draft picks. Did we ever figure out how many picks a team can send in a single trade? There were people on here claiming it could only be 2.

I just ran the trade machine;

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=oaghle4

So the money works. I still say Dieng should be a must coming back...and hopefully the Cavs are smart enough to get him. I'm a little surprised that the Wolves aren't going to try and shed Martin in this deal also. Perhaps they could get a 3rd team involved and send out a pick and Martin for an expiring contract. Although if they really want to make the playoffs...maybe the keep him in a backup/6th man type role.

Maybe they could send out Brewer/Shved and one of the first rounders from the Cavs (the Heat or Grizzlies pick) for Thad Young.

I think if Wiggins was being dealt he'd be signed max money (120% of the rookie scale) so they could have the 30 days end as quickly as possible.

Getting Kevin Love only means another finals loss for LeBron and a LeBron, Kyrie and Love trio is going to be hard pressed to win a chip if it is void of someone like Wiggins to do the hustle work.

Does LeBron want to be known as 2/6 next summer?

Losing with the kids has some honor and bodes well for the future, losing with another posse he has rounded up is a bad look all around, and then the following year the questions about leaving etc. the distractions.

My Wiggins homerism aside, there is a lot to consider.

[DMAVS41]

I think if Wiggins was being dealt he'd be signed max money (120% of the rookie scale) so they could have the 30 days end as quickly as possible.

Getting Kevin Love only means another finals loss for LeBron and a LeBron, Kyrie and Love trio is going to be hard pressed to win a chip if it is void of someone like Wiggins to do the hustle work.

Does LeBron want to be known as 2/6 next summer?

Losing with the kids has some honor and bodes well for the future, losing with another posse he has rounded up is a bad look all around, and then the following year the questions about leaving etc. the distractions.

My Wiggins homerism aside, there is a lot to consider.

the above trade doesn't have wiggins in it though.

my trade was;

Waiters/Bennett/Haywood/Felix and first rounders for Love/Dieng.

I would trade Wiggins for Love if I had to...but I didn't put him in this trade. My main point has been I would if it was the only way...and I'd also get back Dieng in any deal. That would pretty much be a sticking point for me if I was the Cavs...even without sending Wiggins.

The above deal is still absurdly good. Waiters (4th pick), Bennett (1st pick), Haywood's great contract that can be moved for something nice, filler and potentially 3 first round picks?

That blows the melo deal out of the water...I don't even know what the hell it does to the Chris Paul deal. It's literally 1,000 times better...etc.

Chris Paul got traded to the Hornets for Gordon, Aminu, Kaman, and Austin Rivers. Think about that.

[Carbine]

Gordon was viewed as one of the best young shooting guards in the league at that time. Some may have even said he was the best up and comer.

Hasn't worked out that way, but that was the feeling at the time of the trade.

[PleezeBelieve]

the above trade doesn't have wiggins in it though.

my trade was;

Waiters/Bennett/Haywood/Felix and first rounders for Love/Dieng.

I would trade Wiggins for Love if I had to...but I didn't put him in this trade. My main point has been I would if it was the only way...and I'd also get back Dieng in any deal. That would pretty much be a sticking point for me if I was the Cavs...even without sending Wiggins.

The above deal is still absurdly good. Waiters (4th pick), Bennett (1st pick), Haywood's great contract that can be moved for something nice, filler and potentially 3 first round picks?

That blows the melo deal out of the water...I don't even know what the hell it does to the Chris Paul deal. It's literally 1,000 times better...etc.

Chris Paul got traded to the Hornets for Gordon, Aminu, Kaman, and Austin Rivers. Think about that.
No matter how much you keep saying it, Cavs are not getting Love and Dieng for Waiters + Bennett + filler + 1sts

:oldlol:

[DMAVS41]

Gordon was viewed as one of the best young shooting guards in the league at that time. Some may have even said he was the best up and comer.

Hasn't worked out that way, but that was the feeling at the time of the trade.

Those people were idiots. Gordon had never done anything to warrant the contract the Pelicans were going to be forced to give him.

I called it at the time...it was just obvious to anyone that actually watched Gordon play.

He was never going to be worth 15 million a year. So that trade was actually awful no matter what. Let Gordon walk and you got Kaman, Aminu, and Rivers for Chris Paul. Keep him and you have to overpay the **** out of a guy that isn't any better than Kevin Martin.

Terrible trade regardless of outcome. The first trade was infinitely better.

LOL

[DMAVS41]

No matter how much you keep saying it, Cavs are not getting Love and Dieng for Waiters + Bennett + filler + 1sts

:oldlol:

Why?

So the Clippers can get Chris Paul (likely a better player) for far less?

Do you actually think Gordon, Aminu, Kaman, and Rivers is remotely close to the deal above?

:facepalm

I don't think you people understand just how absurdly good this deal would be for the Wolves historically in situations like this.

[JtotheIzzo]

the above trade doesn't have wiggins in it though.

my trade was;

Waiters/Bennett/Haywood/Felix and first rounders for Love/Dieng.

I would trade Wiggins for Love if I had to...but I didn't put him in this trade. My main point has been I would if it was the only way...and I'd also get back Dieng in any deal. That would pretty much be a sticking point for me if I was the Cavs...even without sending Wiggins.

The above deal is still absurdly good. Waiters (4th pick), Bennett (1st pick), Haywood's great contract that can be moved for something nice, filler and potentially 3 first round picks?

That blows the melo deal out of the water...I don't even know what the hell it does to the Chris Paul deal. It's literally 1,000 times better...etc.

Chris Paul got traded to the Hornets for Gordon, Aminu, Kaman, and Austin Rivers. Think about that.

I know, I was just 'yes, and'ing' your post.

[JtotheIzzo]

Those people were idiots. Gordon had never done anything to warrant the contract the Pelicans were going to be forced to give him.

I called it at the time...it was just obvious to anyone that actually watched Gordon play.

He was never going to be worth 15 million a year. So that trade was actually awful no matter what. Let Gordon walk and you got Kaman, Aminu, and Rivers for Chris Paul. Keep him and you have to overpay the **** out of a guy that isn't any better than Kevin Martin.

Terrible trade regardless of outcome. The first trade was infinitely better.

LOL

He did put up something like 22ppg in his third year and he was killing with the Clips.

[JtotheIzzo]

No matter how much you keep saying it, Cavs are not getting Love and Dieng for Waiters + Bennett + filler + 1sts

:oldlol:

They might get him for far less if they are patient.

[Carbine]

Those people were idiots. Gordon had never done anything to warrant the contract the Pelicans were going to be forced to give him.

I called it at the time...it was just obvious to anyone that actually watched Gordon play.

He was never going to be worth 15 million a year. So that trade was actually awful no matter what. Let Gordon walk and you got Kaman, Aminu, and Rivers for Chris Paul. Keep him and you have to overpay the **** out of a guy that isn't any better than Kevin Martin.

Terrible trade regardless of outcome. The first trade was infinitely better.

LOL

He scored 22.5 points and 4.5 assists per game at age 22 on good percentages. Defense was good.

He was a valuable commodity back then. Whether you agreed upon that or not - that was reality.

Aminu was the 8th overall pick the year prior before getting dealt. So there was an unknown potential value with him. They also got an unprotected Wolves 1st round pick. At that point, Minnesota was viewed as one of the worst teams in the NBA (they won 17 games the year prior to the pick being dealt for Paul)

That pick alone is worth more than the three picks Cleveland might give up.

[DMAVS41]

He did put up something like 22ppg in his third year and he was killing with the Clips.

Meh...he had like 56 good games on a shit team. Never was worth what Pelicans would have to pay to keep him. Any non casual fan knew this. Stern just ****ed over the Pelicans and made a far worse deal.

Oh, Kevin Martin makes less than half what Gordon currently does.

Martin from 07 through 11?

22/4/2 60% TS.

Gordon's best season?

22/3/4 57% TS.


Like I said. Horrible trade. Honestly one of the worst ever. Kind of sick that the Pelicans have made two of the worst trades ever and still have a bright future because of lucking into Anthony Davis. Better to be lucky than good that is for sure.

[BlackWhiteGreen]

I dont see any way the Wolves put Dieng in the deal. He's got wayyyy too much value. Pekovic woud be much more likely imo.

Put it this way, I'd trade any player on the Celtics for him.

[PleezeBelieve]

He scored 22.5 points and 4.5 assists per game at age 22 on good percentages. Defense was good.

He was a valuable commodity back then. Whether you agreed upon that or not - that was reality.

Aminu was the 8th overall pick the year prior before getting dealt. So there was an unknown potential value with him. They also got an unprotected Wolves 1st round pick. At that point, Minnesota was viewed as one of the worst teams in the NBA (they won 17 games the year prior to the pick being dealt for Paul)

That pick alone is worth more than the three picks Cleveland might give up.
:applause:

[DMAVS41]

He scored 22.5 points and 4.5 assists per game at age 22 on good percentages. Defense was good.

He was a valuable commodity back then. Whether you agreed upon that or not - that was reality.

Aminu was the 8th overall pick the year prior before getting dealt. So there was an unknown potential value with him. They also got an unprotected Wolves 1st round pick. At that point, Minnesota was viewed as one of the worst teams in the NBA (they won 17 games the year prior to the pick being dealt for Paul)

That pick alone is worth more than the three picks Cleveland might give up.


Actually, no...it's not.

It's not my fault if people can't see reality. It wasn't reality that Gordon was ever going to be worth the max (which is what everyone knew he was going to get offered the next summer).

Aminu was irrelevant...and the Wolves were likely going to finish around 10th or so.

What the Cavs are currently offering blows that out of the ****ing water and it's not even remotely close.

I'm sorry if you can't see it. That isn't my issue. I called it at the time and the fact that people still debate this shit is beyond me.

That deal was ****ing atrocious. Eric Gordon has never been better than Kevin Martin. And the first deal had Kevin Martin and Dragic...and tradable assets like Odom and Scola.

Stern absolutely ****ed the Pelicans (and the Lakers)...

[PleezeBelieve]

They might get him for far less if they are patient.
You're a former Bennett stan, who now has moved on to Wiggins.

You're not in any position to be evaluating trade value.

[DMAVS41]

:applause:

No it didn't. Stop this shit.

The Grizzlies have just as much chance landing between 5 and 14 as the Wolves did of being a top 5 pick (for the pick to really matter)...

[PleezeBelieve]

Actually, no...it's not.

It's not my fault if people can't see reality. It wasn't reality that Gordon was ever going to be worth the max (which is what everyone knew he was going to get offered the next summer).

Aminu was irrelevant...and the Wolves were likely going to finish around 10th or so.

What the Cavs are currently offering blows that out of the ****ing water and it's not even remotely close.

I'm sorry if you can't see it. That isn't my issue. I called it at the time and the fact that people still debate this shit is beyond me.

That deal was ****ing atrocious. Eric Gordon has never been better than Kevin Martin. And the first deal had Kevin Martin and Dragic...and tradable assets like Odom and Scola.

Stern absolutely ****ed the Pelicans (and the Lakers)...
I like Dion... a lot. But even if he is successful in Minny, I don't think he stays there.

Bennett is a role player at the moment. Has some potential to be a 17/9 player, but that's years from now. And I doubt he even brings any real impact with those stats.

The first round picks will be lower picks except the Grizzles' pick, which is protected for years to come without any assurances memphis will be bad in the future.

[DMAVS41]

I like Dion... a lot. But even if he is successful in Minny, I don't think he stays there.

Bennett is a role player at the moment. Has some potential to be a 17/9 player, but that's years from now. And I doubt he even brings any real impact with those stats.

The first round picks will be lower picks except the Grizzles' pick, which is protected for years to come without any assurances memphis will be bad in the future.

You left out the Haywood contract which is extremely valuable.

Again...look at the deals for Melo, Howard, Paul...etc. None of them touch this.

It's all about money for Waiters. He has 2 years left before his QO...and it will depend on whether or not there is a huge market for him. Considering Lance (a much better player) just went for 9 million a year in an inflated market...I wouldn't worry about keeping him. He's likely a player that will have good value at his price point unless he just blows up on Minny the next 2 years.

The best case scenario for the Pelicans with Gordon was to let him walk. That is what they wanted to do for sure, but you can't put fans in the seats after you explain to them that you traded Chris Paul for aminu, kaman, and rivers...ROFL. But we all know the truth...the Pelicans would be much better off if they had let Gordon walk after 2012. How you guys still defend that trade is beyond me. It was horrific and is still ****ing the Pelicans over hugely. Well, the horrific Jrue Holiday trade is doing that as well. Ugh....2 of the worst trades ever in the last few years for the Pelicans.

[PleezeBelieve]

No it didn't. Stop this shit.

The Grizzlies have just as much chance landing between 5 and 14 as the Wolves did of being a top 5 pick (for the pick to really matter)...
:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

This dude stuck in the Twilight Zone or something?

Wolves won 15 games in '10.

16 games in '17

26 games in '12.

31 in '13.

:biggums: :biggums: :biggums: :biggums:

[DMAVS41]

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

This dude stuck in the Twilight Zone or something?

Wolves won 15 games in '10.

16 games in '17

26 games in '12.

31 in '13.

:biggums: :biggums: :biggums: :biggums:


Are you this dense?

I didn't say the Grizzlies would be as bad as the Wolves. I said their pick this year has the same chance of landing between 5 and 14 as the Wolves in 12 had the chance of being in the bottom 5.

Everyone knew the Wolves would be improved. Also, do you realize that in 12 it was a lockout year? The Wolves went 26-40. Not 26-56. And that is with Love missing like 10 games iirc.

They were not going to be a terrible team.

Marc Gasol and Randolph get hurt again....and the Grizzlies could easily finish 10th or 11th in the loaded west. It's not some far fetched notion at all...

3 first round picks is valuable...just shrugging them off...along with Waiters (4th pick), Bennett (1st pick), and Haywood's absurdly valuable contract is ****ing idiotic. That is a very good deal for the Wolves. Definitely better than past deals and definitely better than the Warriors deal even with Thompson.

The Wolves don't have to do it. They can hold out for Wiggins if they want, but to act like that isn't a good deal when we can look at the Melo, Howard, and Paul deals as a reference is just silly. It's way better than all of those.

[RedBlackAttack]

the above trade doesn't have wiggins in it though.

my trade was;

Waiters/Bennett/Haywood/Felix and first rounders for Love/Dieng.

I would trade Wiggins for Love if I had to...but I didn't put him in this trade. My main point has been I would if it was the only way...and I'd also get back Dieng in any deal. That would pretty much be a sticking point for me if I was the Cavs...even without sending Wiggins.

The above deal is still absurdly good. Waiters (4th pick), Bennett (1st pick), Haywood's great contract that can be moved for something nice, filler and potentially 3 first round picks?

That blows the melo deal out of the water...I don't even know what the hell it does to the Chris Paul deal. It's literally 1,000 times better...etc.

Chris Paul got traded to the Hornets for Gordon, Aminu, Kaman, and Austin Rivers. Think about that.
I haven't heard anything from anyone about Dieng being involved in any scenario. I really doubt he's on the table, especially if the Cavs aren't including Wiggins.

[DMAVS41]

I haven't heard anything from anyone about Dieng being involved in any scenario. I really doubt he's on the table, especially if the Cavs aren't including Wiggins.

Ugh...that's a lot to give up with only Andy at center. That interior defense is gonna be a problem this year....and not like it's easy to find solid defensive centers.

Side note...It's amazing how stupid people that study the game for a living can be;

http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=11238729

Stephen A. Smith is so wrong here it's laughable. I swear people only think about the present and never the future. Where are the Wolves going with Klay, Lee, and Barnes? To the 10th seed in the West? Perhaps a first round sweep if they are lucky? Then they will have to pay Klay 17 million a season this summer?

I can't take how stupid some people are. He'd turn down Wiggins, Bennett, and a first round pick for Kevin Love? Stephen A. Smith...you're better than that.

[Charlie Sheen]

You left out the Haywood contract which is extremely valuable.




Why do the Wolves want to pay Haywood's salary this year? What's their gain? A useless body to make salaries match? Haywood has no value to the Wolves. They won't be near the cap next summer if they deal Love.

[RedBlackAttack]

Why do the Wolves want to pay Haywood's salary this year? What's their gain? A useless body to make salaries match? Haywood has no value to the Wolves. They won't be near the cap next summer if they deal Love.
Haywood is essentially an $11 million trade exception next season. It's the whole reason the Cavs acquired him in the first place. Trade exceptions ALWAYS have value, even if you're just flipping his contract to some other team for a piece or a draft pick or whatever. It doesn't have to be for cap purposes.

[Carbine]

You left out the Haywood contract which is extremely valuable.

Again...look at the deals for Melo, Howard, Paul...etc. None of them touch this.

It's all about money for Waiters. He has 2 years left before his QO...and it will depend on whether or not there is a huge market for him. Considering Lance (a much better player) just went for 9 million a year in an inflated market...I wouldn't worry about keeping him. He's likely a player that will have good value at his price point unless he just blows up on Minny the next 2 years.

The best case scenario for the Pelicans with Gordon was to let him walk. That is what they wanted to do for sure, but you can't put fans in the seats after you explain to them that you traded Chris Paul for aminu, kaman, and rivers...ROFL. But we all know the truth...the Pelicans would be much better off if they had let Gordon walk after 2012. How you guys still defend that trade is beyond me. It was horrific and is still ****ing the Pelicans over hugely. Well, the horrific Jrue Holiday trade is doing that as well. Ugh....2 of the worst trades ever in the last few years for the Pelicans.

Paying Gordon 14.5 million per year isn't really that big of a deal. You don't let 23 year old's who put up 22.5/4.5 walk.

Not like NO is some hot spot for free agents. Not like they were hard up for cap space. Not like they were going to attract a big time free agent.

They did the right thing.

[JtotheIzzo]

You're a former Bennett stan, who now has moved on to Wiggins.

You're not in any position to be evaluating trade value.


You're wrong PB, I am a CURRENT Bennett stan and a huge Wiggins stan. Having them both play on the same team is f*cking exciting as hell (especially since Bennett appears to be getting his shit together).

I think these two growing together gives Cleveland a decade of relevance, they played together in their youth, they'll bring the best out of each other and they both have skills and styles of play that LeBron can really bring the best out of both on the game court and on the practice court with his tutelage.

I think Bennett will blossom into a top fifteen power forward this season, as I would say last year, he is too good to fail. I think Wiggins will contribute as a productive third wheel straight away and have nights where he is killing it. The more athletic lock down defender will be on LeBron, Wiggins will be getting put back, beating his man down the floor and cutting to the rim for finishes.

Trading Wiggins is f*cking retarded, only a team prone to panic would do it.

I understand trading Bennett, he shit the bed in year one and there is a price to pay for that. I wouldn't, but I understand why they might.

IMO the trade is Waiters and Thompson plus picks, Minny gets two quality pros and proven commodities who are still young and steadily improving. Minnesota will take this.

BUT Cleveland has this paranoia: "LeBron, in his letter, he mentioned both of them, we CANT trade him Bran will be mad!!!"

This is some beta panic bullshit, give him Love and he will be more than happy.

Best mix of now and future:

Iriving
Wiggins
Bran
Love
Andy

How is that not the best starting five in the East?

They get to the finals first year. Bennett builds confidence as 6 man, and then he or Love become a trade chip down the road.

There is a path. I actually think that Cleveland has the pieces to make noise in a crap East THIS YEAR without even making a move.

[RedBlackAttack]

Ugh...that's a lot to give up with only Andy at center. That interior defense is gonna be a problem this year....and not like it's easy to find solid defensive centers.

Side note...It's amazing how stupid people that study the game for a living can be;

http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=11238729

Stephen A. Smith is so wrong here it's laughable. I swear people only think about the present and never the future. Where are the Wolves going with Klay, Lee, and Barnes? To the 10th seed in the West? Perhaps a first round sweep if they are lucky? Then they will have to pay Klay 17 million a season this summer?

I can't take how stupid some people are. He'd turn down Wiggins, Bennett, and a first round pick for Kevin Love? Stephen A. Smith...you're better than that.

I agree on both counts and it is a major reason why I was distressed about losing Tyler Zeller just to rid ourselves of Jarrett Jack's contract. Obviously that led to having enough cap room for LeBron and the Celtics probably wouldn't have done it without him... but that really hurt. Zeller was coming along nicely and would have been a good fit with what we have.

He is a great transition big off the bench... change of pace sort of guy and even his defense had improved quite a bit from year one to year two.

You should keep in mind that the reason Wiggins has not been signed yet is because the Cavs still have a little room to maneuver cap-wise. Most people are under the assumption it will eventually be used on Ray Allen, but if he decides not to come back for whatever reason, an additional big body could be acquired.

Not saying it will be some tremendous piece, but this roster is not fully formed just yet. When it is, that's when Wiggins will be signed. As long as he remains unsigned, just assume the Cavs have one more move in them.


As for SAS, his takes are just embarrassing. Then again, people that watch ESPN regularly probably don't want to hear actual intellectual discussion about the game. They'd rather hear him pontificate things about which he is clueless, but it sounds fun.

Truthfully, Zach Lowe is the only writer I can stomach when it comes to breaking down the game. He knows his sh!t. Every guy on ESPN labeled as an NBA "insider" will make me facepalm at least once a segment by saying something incredibly dumb that no one with any actual insight would dare say.

[Charlie Sheen]

Haywood is essentially an $11 million trade exception next season. It's the whole reason the Cavs acquired him in the first place. Trade exceptions ALWAYS have value, even if you're just flipping his contract to some other team for a piece or a draft pick or whatever. It doesn't have to be for cap purposes.

Nah. Not always. It's an asset to a team like the Cavs who would expect to be operating at or around the cap next offseason. That's not the case for a Minny team that dealt Love.

[RedBlackAttack]

Nah. Not always. It's an asset to a team like the Cavs who would expect to be operating at or around the cap next offseason. That's not the case for a Minny team that dealt Love.
If it's an asset for a team like the Cavs, it's an asset for the TWolves... because they can trade it to a team who needs it... and get stuff back in return.

Do you see what I'm saying? Minnesota isn't relegated to making just one trade in the next two years. You'd think moving Love would be followed by more activity.

[DMAVS41]

I agree on both counts and it is a major reason why I was distressed about losing Tyler Zeller just to rid ourselves of Jarrett Jack's contract. Obviously that led to having enough cap room for LeBron and the Celtics probably wouldn't have done it without him... but that really hurt. Zeller was coming along nicely and would have been a good fit with what we have.

He is a great transition big off the bench... change of pace sort of guy and even his defense had improved quite a bit from year one to year two.

You should keep in mind that the reason Wiggins has not been signed yet is because the Cavs still have a little room to maneuver cap-wise. Most people are under the assumption it will eventually be used on Ray Allen, but if he decides not to come back for whatever reason, an additional big body could be acquired.

Not saying it will be some tremendous piece, but this roster is not fully formed just yet. When it is, that's when Wiggins will be signed. As long as he remains unsigned, just assume the Cavs have one more move in them.


As for SAS, his takes are just embarrassing. Then again, people that watch ESPN regularly probably don't want to hear actual intellectual discussion about the game. They'd rather hear him pontificate things about which he is clueless, but it sounds fun.

Truthfully, Zach Lowe is the only writer I can stomach when it comes to breaking down the game. He knows his sh!t. Every guy on ESPN labeled as an NBA "insider" will make me facepalm at least once a segment by saying something incredibly dumb that no one with any actual insight would dare say.

Agree.

Zeller hurts here. Would be so nice to have him.

I just assumed you guys were adding Allen...I think I saw you (or someone that knows their stuff) say Allen was pretty much a done deal.

I like that move a lot actually. He'll be sorely needed no matter what happens at that position in my opinion.

Can always go out and get another big for the minimum...just won't be great.

[Charlie Sheen]

If it's an asset for a team like the Cavs, it's an asset for the TWolves... because they can trade it to a team who needs it... and get stuff back in return.

Do you see what I'm saying? Minnesota isn't relegated to making just one trade in the next two years. You'd think moving Love would be followed by more activity.
disagree with the first sentence. He's not a coveted asset around the nba. His appeal is limited to specific teams and their cap situations. Why does Minnesota want to accept less than Wiggins because the Cavs are including Haywood? He COULD be worth something in trade next summer...maybe.

Point is, he's not extremely valuable. Charlotte had to tie a pick to the guy on draft night, but he's extremely valuable on the trade market now? Or valuable at all, really.

The value is already there with whatever Wiggins/Waiters/Bennett combination headlines any Love deal. Haywood brings next to nothing to Minnesota in this trade.

[DMAVS41]

disagree with the first sentence. He's not a coveted asset around the nba. His appeal is limited to specific teams and their cap situations. Why does Minnesota want to accept less than Wiggins because the Cavs are including Haywood? He COULD be worth something in trade next summer...maybe.

Point is, he's not extremely valuable. Charlotte had to tie a pick to the guy on draft night, but he's extremely valuable on the trade market now? Or valuable at all, really.

The value is already there with whatever Wiggins/Waiters/Bennett combination headlines any Love deal. Haywood brings next to nothing to Minnesota in this trade.

Here's a quick reminder.

At the beginning of last season the Suns traded away Gortat for an expiring contract....and Gortat was on an expiring contract of his own. The Suns thought they were gonna suck and wanted to shed Gortat and not worry about having to pay him.

With a contract like Haywood. The Wolves would be in play for an 11 million plus type player that a team is looking to shed. For Minnny...a franchise in which virtually no free agents want to go there...having the ability to make a trade like that is huge.

They could get Larry Sanders without that next summer for example if the Bucks want to get rid of him.

It's an asset.

[Charlie Sheen]

Here's a quick reminder.

At the beginning of last season the Suns traded away Gortat for an expiring contract....and Gortat was on an expiring contract of his own. The Suns thought they were gonna suck and wanted to shed Gortat and not worry about having to pay him.

With a contract like Haywood. The Wolves would be in play for an 11 million plus type player that a team is looking to shed. For Minnny...a franchise in which virtually no free agents want to go there...having the ability to make a trade like that is huge.

They could get Larry Sanders without that next summer for example if the Bucks want to get rid of him.

It's an asset.

Gortat could still play in the NBA. Haywood, who really knows? He's just a walking bag of cash right now. There are some similarities as you pointed out, but the wiz didn't get Gortat for Okafor's expirer... they ponied up a 2014 first rounder when no one was trading them.

Chandler brought what back for new york? A couple second rounders and Calderon. Chandler like Gortat is still a productive basketball player.

Expirers dont have close to the value they did once upon a time. Haywood doesn't sweeten any KLove deal.

[DMAVS41]

Gortat could still play in the NBA. Haywood, who really knows? He's just a walking bag of cash right now. There are some similarities as you pointed out, but the wiz didn't get Gortat for Okafor's expirer... they ponied up a 2014 first rounder when no one was trading them.

Chandler brought what back for new york? A couple second rounders and Calderon. Chandler like Gortat is still a productive basketball player.

Expirers dont have close to the value they did once upon a time. Haywood doesn't sweeten any KLove deal.

I really don't follow. So a pick and Haywood can land you potentially a player like Gortat.

I'd say that is pretty valuable for any team...especially a team like the Wolves. That can't really sign free agents.

Any team with Haywood's contract next year can go out and get any number of players on teams looking to move in another direction. Larry Sanders comes to mind. Shit...the Wolves would probably get more as the Bucks will likely be begging to get out of that contract.

This is why the Cavs trade, even without Wiggins, is so much better. Waiters and Larry Sanders would make a combined like 16 or 17 million a year. That is way more valuable than Thompson at that price for just him.

The Haywood contract matters.

[RedBlackAttack]

disagree with the first sentence. He's not a coveted asset around the nba. His appeal is limited to specific teams and their cap situations. Why does Minnesota want to accept less than Wiggins because the Cavs are including Haywood? He COULD be worth something in trade next summer...maybe.

Point is, he's not extremely valuable. Charlotte had to tie a pick to the guy on draft night, but he's extremely valuable on the trade market now? Or valuable at all, really.

The value is already there with whatever Wiggins/Waiters/Bennett combination headlines any Love deal. Haywood brings next to nothing to Minnesota in this trade.
Because they have no leverage to demand a player who is not being made available, their options look extremely limited right now and if they don't make a deal by the deadline they likely lose him for nothing.

That's why. And, the longer this thing goes on, the closer we get to the deadline, the more leverage they will likely lose.

The way negotiations usually work is like this... a team gets an offer. They take that offer to another team vying for said player's services and say, "Can you beat it." That's how you might be able to get a player of Wiggins' caliber in discussions such as this one, although I'm opposed to it, period.

But, I could see making demands if there were an actual bidding war going on, but the only other serious contender at the moment seems to be the Warriors and their offer is Barnes, Lee and a likely late first.

Barnes had a horrendous season last year and has regressed instead of gotten better. Lee is a 30-year-old player with two years left on his deal that is unlikely to help a Wolves team that likely won't be in playoff contention for the next two seasons without Love.

I'm guessing the Cavs are offering Waiters and Bennett, plus three first rounders. Waiters is a 22-year-old guy who has gotten better in each of his two seasons, to the point where he was carrying the Cavs' offense for stretches last season. He is also a good playmaker and is turning into a good defender. He's a good prospect.

While Bennett had a horrible rookie season by anyone's standards, he did start to look a lot better in the latter portion of last season and he came to Summer League this year in very good shape and he looked like the player we thought we were getting last year. He has a very good all-around offensive game. If he puts it together, he absolutely has three-point range, is athletic around the basket, moves well in transition and is a very good rebounder.

He's also still just 21.

Additionally, both Waiters and Bennett are working under their rookie contracts.


Throw in the three firsts, including two that are definitely going to be better than the one the Warriors have to offer, AND that Haywood contract / trade exception...

Is this even close to a difficult decision, because the better deal seems relatively obvious. And, there's no reason why the Cavs should have to consider including Wiggins just "because the TWolves want him" when they can so easily beat the best other offer without including him.

[SwishSquared]

Agree.

Zeller hurts here. Would be so nice to have him.

I just assumed you guys were adding Allen...I think I saw you (or someone that knows their stuff) say Allen was pretty much a done deal.

I like that move a lot actually. He'll be sorely needed no matter what happens at that position in my opinion.

Can always go out and get another big for the minimum...just won't be great.
What about Ekpe Udoh? Apparently brings shot-blocking, although he's undersized. Has anybody taken a flyer on him yet?

[Charlie Sheen]

I really don't follow. So a pick and Haywood can land you potentially a player like Gortat.

I'd say that is pretty valuable for any team...especially a team like the Wolves. That can't really sign free agents.

Any team with Haywood's contract next year can go out and get any number of players on teams looking to move in another direction. Larry Sanders comes to mind. Shit...the Wolves would probably get more as the Bucks will likely be begging to get out of that contract.

This is why the Cavs trade, even without Wiggins, is so much better. Waiters and Larry Sanders would make a combined like 16 or 17 million a year. That is way more valuable than Thompson at that price for just him.

The Haywood contract matters.

Why would Milwaukee do that? 3/33 isn't a terrible contract for a 25 year old C who has shown strong defensive instincts in the NBA. Why does Milwaukee want to clear so much space for 2015? To use it in FA to sign a middle tier guy to more years and more $$ than anyone else?

Your comparison between Klay nd Waiters + Sanders is terribly uneven. More accurately, it would be Klay + whatever draft picks and assets used to acquire Sanders vs Waiters and Sanders.

One last thing, Sanders was injured throughout last year. Milwaukee probably needs to see another year before dumping him 1 year into an extension. Obviously, you think he'd be an impact player on the Wolves, it's why you brought him up. So, I don't think the Bucks will be quick to deal him to the first team offering to take his contract.

The Haywood contract the way I understand it, has limited appeal to teams who will be strapped next offseason. They'll be able to add to the roster through trades. It works to satisfy salary matching trade rules for teams over the cap. That is his value. I'll say this again, expirers on their own aren't really worth much at all in today's NBA. An expiring contract for a guy that can still play like Chandler and Gortat? The value is base way more on the player than the contract in those situations.

I'm not going to convince you otherwise. That's okay. It's not that serious, just sports. There's no right answer here. :cheers:

[Charlie Sheen]

Because they have no leverage to demand a player who is not being made available, their options look extremely limited right now and if they don't make a deal by the deadline they likely lose him for nothing.

That's why. And, the longer this thing goes on, the closer we get to the deadline, the more leverage they will likely lose.

The way negotiations usually work is like this... a team gets an offer. They take that offer to another team vying for said player's services and say, "Can you beat it." That's how you might be able to get a player of Wiggins' caliber in discussions such as this one, although I'm opposed to it, period.

But, I could see making demands if there were an actual bidding war going on, but the only other serious contender at the moment seems to be the Warriors and their offer is Barnes, Lee and a likely late first.

Barnes had a horrendous season last year and has regressed instead of gotten better. Lee is a 30-year-old player with two years left on his deal that is unlikely to help a Wolves team that likely won't be in playoff contention for the next two seasons without Love.

I'm guessing the Cavs are offering Waiters and Bennett, plus three first rounders. Waiters is a 22-year-old guy who has gotten better in each of his two seasons, to the point where he was carrying the Cavs' offense for stretches last season. He is also a good playmaker and is turning into a good defender. He's a good prospect.

While Bennett had a horrible rookie season by anyone's standards, he did start to look a lot better in the latter portion of last season and he came to Summer League this year in very good shape and he looked like the player we thought we were getting last year. He has a very good all-around offensive game. If he puts it together, he absolutely has three-point range, is athletic around the basket, moves well in transition and is a very good rebounder.

He's also still just 21.

Additionally, both Waiters and Bennett are working under their rookie contracts.


Throw in the three firsts, including two that are definitely going to be better than the one the Warriors have to offer, AND that Haywood contract / trade exception...

Is this even close to a difficult decision, because the better deal seems relatively obvious. And, there's no reason why the Cavs should have to consider including Wiggins just "because the TWolves want him" when they can so easily beat the best other offer without including him.

:oldlol:

I thought about that sentence after I posted it and how it might be interpreted. For the record, I'm neither a wolves or Cavs fan. I don't care where Love ends up. I do like talking trades though. Transacations in the nba have always fascinated me and hel d my interest.

There is a reason why the Cavs should include Wiggins. It's exactly the one you wrote: because the TWolves want him. For everything I've read, Wiggins gets the deal done NOW. The rumored package of Waiters, picks, Bennett and stuff is nothing to sneeze at, but it isn't what the Wolves are asking for.

Also, I do think Minnesota has quite a bit of leverage in these discussions. There's only one Kevin Love with no other stars on the trade market. It's only a matter of time before another team jumps into the fray with a solid offer. It might look like take the cavs offer or get nothing right now, but the landscape can change radically in one month or 6.

[DMAVS41]

Why would Milwaukee do that? 3/33 isn't a terrible contract for a 25 year old C who has shown strong defensive instincts in the NBA. Why does Milwaukee want to clear so much space for 2015? To use it in FA to sign a middle tier guy to more years and more $$ than anyone else?

Your comparison between Klay nd Waiters + Sanders is terribly uneven. More accurately, it would be Klay + whatever draft picks and assets used to acquire Sanders vs Waiters and Sanders.

One last thing, Sanders was injured throughout last year. Milwaukee probably needs to see another year before dumping him 1 year into an extension. Obviously, you think he'd be an impact player on the Wolves, it's why you brought him up. So, I don't think the Bucks will be quick to deal him to the first team offering to take his contract.

The Haywood contract the way I understand it, has limited appeal to teams who will be strapped next offseason. They'll be able to add to the roster through trades. It works to satisfy salary matching trade rules for teams over the cap. That is his value. I'll say this again, expirers on their own aren't really worth much at all in today's NBA. An expiring contract for a guy that can still play like Chandler and Gortat? The value is base way more on the player than the contract in those situations.

I'm not going to convince you otherwise. That's okay. It's not that serious, just sports. There's no right answer here. :cheers:

It's not just about the money. The team just might want to go in a different direction with Sanders due to his personality...etc. He was just a name I was throwing out.

As for Waiters vs Klay. Again...just throwing a name out that could possibly be had that adds up to the salary or so.

Klay is going get get roughly 16 to 17 million on the open market unless I'm missing something. He's better than Hayward. So my point was that when building a team...would you rather have Klay at 16 or 17 million. Or Waiters and another player....or Waiters and 2 other players...etc. The answer for me isn't even close...it's Waiters. And I actually really like Klay...he's just not worth that...and the only way he is...is if your team is gonna be a favorite to win the title with him.

Paying Klay 70 million over 4 years or something just seems silly if your team isn't even going to make the playoffs potentially. That was my point.

So that is why the Cavs deal without Wiggins still trumps the Warriors deal in my mind.