Kevin Love intrigued on possibility of signing with the Cavs...

[tgan3]

Article:
http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/11203427/kevin-love-intrigued-commit-cleveland-cavaliers

Irving, Lebron and Love the new big 3???

Looks like they going to trade Wiggins/Bennett for Love..

[jzek]

Let's see... get a future Hall of Famer or hang on to someone who has y et to play one minute of NBA ball and could turn out to be Bennett 2.0

Really tough decision here, folks.

Same folks who picked Oden (potential) over Durant.

[DMAVS41]

Let's see... get a future Hall of Famer or hang on to someone who has y et to play one minute of NBA ball and could turn out to be Bennett 2.0

Really tough decision here, folks.

Same folks who picked Oden (potential) over Durant.

Yep...I can't believe there are people saying Love isn't worth Wiggins. LOL

[JimmyMcAdocious]

Let's see... get a future Hall of Famer or hang on to someone who has y et to play one minute of NBA ball and could turn out to be Bennett 2.0

Really tough decision here, folks.

Same folks who picked Oden (potential) over Durant.

I agree with the the sentiment...

But your analogy at the end seems inaccurate. iirc, Oden was considered to be one of the most NBA ready players to come out in a long while. Durant, the lanky kid, playing like a guard, was the "potential" player.

Tho both were considered to have high potential, anyhow.

[Godzuki]

Bennett will be better. he could be a beast. no way he can be as bad as last year again. thats why getting Love might not be that important, but Cav's have a lot of wait and see players with tons of potential. every year can be different where players seem to have good shooting years and bad ones too. who knows. like Kyrie could start out great unlike last year where he had a awful start...

i don't know if they should be that desperate to unload. i agree with some other posters that if they do a trade they should do it in season after seeing how this team performs.

[Uncle Drew]

We're not trading Wiggins, that's for sure. Might be Dion/Bennet/picks in a 3-team deal.

[QuebecBaller]

Article:
http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/11203427/kevin-love-intrigued-commit-cleveland-cavaliers

Irving, Lebron and Love the new big 3???

Looks like they going to trade Wiggins/Bennett for Love..

please, please, please... (from a future Wolves fan)

[NumberSix]

Yep...I can't believe there are people saying Love isn't worth Wiggins. LOL
Wiggins is a NOBODY right now. Dude could be a Michael Beasley or Monta Ellis 5 years from now for all we know. It's not worth the risk. Love is an all star calibre player. No questions asked. That's a sure thing. Take the sure thing. You don't waste LeBron's prime on the gamble that a 19 year old MIGHT be good in the future.

[NoGunzJustSkillz]

Let's see... get a future Hall of Famer or hang on to someone who has y et to play one minute of NBA ball and could turn out to be Bennett 2.0

Really tough decision here, folks.

Same folks who picked Oden (potential) over Durant.
yeah but you could have a superstar in wiggins and he'll be on a rookie scale contract. then you can use those funds elsewhere.

[jayfan]

Not saying that Wiggins = Jordan, but me ask you this...

Would you trade rookie Jordan for Love?





.

[NumberSix]

Not saying that Wiggins = Jordan, but me ask you this...

Would you trade rookie Jordan for Love?





.
Not saying Wiggins = Kwame Brown, but me ask you this...

Would you trade rookie Kwame for Love?





.

[ZenMaster]

Please get Wiggins to Minnesota and next to Rubio, he needs the chance of being a main scorer.

Rubio Wiggins Lavine fast break could be special in a few years.

[RedBlackAttack]

Article:
http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/11203427/kevin-love-intrigued-commit-cleveland-cavaliers

Irving, Lebron and Love the new big 3???

Looks like they going to trade Wiggins/Bennett for Love..
Actually it doesn't look like that at all. All the reports I have heard/read indicate Wiggins is not being traded.

And, giving up Bennett and Wiggins is too much anyway. The guy is going to be a free agent in a year.

[TheReal Kendall]

It's crazy how everybody on this site was so ecstatic and high on Wiggins before and during the draft now Bron is back and people just throwing dude under the bus.

[RedBlackAttack]

It's crazy how everybody on this site was so ecstatic and high on Wiggins before and during the draft now Bron is back and people just throwing dude under the bus.
No one in Cleveland is. His agent has been informed that Wiggins is not being discussed in any trades and the team is committed to him. And, the majority of Cavs fans are not promoting the idea of trading him either.

This is coming from people who want to rush to formulate the next "Big Three" instead of just letting things come together naturally.

The Cavs would be wise to do the latter.

[NumberSix]

No one in Cleveland is. His agent has been informed that Wiggins is not being discussed in any trades and the team is committed to him. And, the majority of Cavs fans are not promoting the idea of trading him either.

This is coming from people who want to rush to formulate the next "Big Three" instead of just letting things come together naturally.

The Cavs would be wise to do the latter.
From what I've heard, Cleveland has been disappointed with Wiggins poor work ethic and lack of IQ. Is there any truth to that?

[chips93]

yeah but you could have a superstar in wiggins and he'll be on a rookie scale contract. then you can use those funds elsewhere.

even if wiggins develops fast, love appears to be a much better fit than wiggins, who is a suspect 3pt shooter


And, giving up Bennett and Wiggins is too much anyway. The guy is going to be a free agent in a year.

i presume we wont trade for love without him signing a long term deal

[MavsSuperFan]

No one in Cleveland is. His agent has been informed that Wiggins is not being discussed in any trades and the team is committed to him. And, the majority of Cavs fans are not promoting the idea of trading him either.

This is coming from people who want to rush to formulate the next "Big Three" instead of just letting things come together naturally.

The Cavs would be wise to do the latter.
Why doe? Lebron's prime has a time limit. By the time wiggins is in his prime lebron's will almost be over.

[ZMonkey11]

The people that think these deals aren't worth it realize Love is guaranteed to walk after this season right? All the other teams understand this and aren't going to offer up fair deals. Minnesota is in a state of semi desperation and don't want to be out in to a shaq/Orlando situation

[SupermanOnSteroids]

huge huge gamble. hope Cleveland trades Wiggins and he turns out to be the next GOAT. would be epic.

[1~Gibson~1]

It's crazy how everybody on this site was so ecstatic and high on Wiggins before and during the draft now Bron is back and people just throwing dude under the bus.
:applause:

[FireMcFailPlease]

The people that think these deals aren't worth it realize Love is guaranteed to walk after this season right? All the other teams understand this and aren't going to offer up fair deals. Minnesota is in a state of semi desperation and don't want to be out in to a shaq/Orlando situation
sure. So is there a scenario where Love can play for 3 different teams next season.

[La Frescobaldi]

Please get Wiggins to Minnesota and next to Rubio, he needs the chance of being a main scorer.

Rubio Wiggins Lavine fast break could be special in a few years.

And don't forget about Corey too. Brewer is amazingly fast

[Meticode]

I want the Cavaliers to keep Wiggins. I think he could be the future of the franchise along with Irving. If we go after Love I hope it's through a 3-way trade while keeping Wiggins.

[DMAVS41]

I want the Cavaliers to keep Wiggins. I think he could be the future of the franchise along with Irving. If we go after Love I hope it's through a 3-way trade while keeping Wiggins.

Any reports are what the Wolves are looking for?

[Meticode]

Any reports are what the Wolves are looking for?
No, I really don't care at this point. I'm fine with the team as it is right now going forward. I was fine with it before the LeBron Coming Home news as well.

It makes me slightly sad at the same time, because I like Waiters and Thompson and the potential of Bennett and if we acquire Love either one of them are two of them are probably gone.

[FireMcFailPlease]

Any reports are what the Wolves are looking for?
From Cleveland? Wiggins + players(obviously)

From GSW-Klay Thompson

Chicago has some talent but pieces that I dont think quite get you the return that GSW or Cleveland can

Boston would've been it had they placed better in the stupid lottery. Again, who knows, but a dumb 1.7% chance might turn into Kevin Love & LeBron James for the Cavs.

[Doranku]

Yep...I can't believe there are people saying Love isn't worth Wiggins. LOL
He's not. You already know what you're getting with Love... stat-padding, stretch 4 chucker who plays zero defense.

And you're talking about giving up the most hyped prospect since LeBron James who has limitless potential and is going to be a lockdown defender for a proven loser? I just don't understand it.

Kevin Love is a great fit for Cleveland, but Wiggins has the potential to be a superstar. It's disgusting how overrated this dude is. He's played as many playoff games as Wiggins has. :roll:

[FireMcFailPlease]

Wiggins had more hype than Durant?

dear doranku. punch yourself.

[La Frescobaldi]

He's not. You already know what you're getting with Love... stat-padding, stretch 4 chucker who plays zero defense.

And you're talking about giving up the most hyped prospect since LeBron James who has limitless potential and is going to be a lockdown defender for a proven loser? I just don't understand it.

Kevin Love is a great fit for Cleveland, but Wiggins has the potential to be a superstar. It's disgusting how overrated this dude is. He's played as many playoff games as Wiggins has. :roll:

Love / Varejao / James = best front court in basketball.

With Kyrie Irving and some good role players/bench?
Instant contender.

[DMAVS41]

He's not. You already know what you're getting with Love... stat-padding, stretch 4 chucker who plays zero defense.

And you're talking about giving up the most hyped prospect since LeBron James who has limitless potential and is going to be a lockdown defender for a proven loser? I just don't understand it.

Kevin Love is a great fit for Cleveland, but Wiggins has the potential to be a superstar. It's disgusting how overrated this dude is. He's played as many playoff games as Wiggins has. :roll:

Are you serious?

Wiggins is not the most hyped prospect since Lebron. That is ****ing absurd.

Wiggins was going 3rd if Embid didn't get hurt in this draft alone.

I don't even like Love, but calling him a prove loser is absurd. He has a skill set at pf that is literally ideal for Lebron. He is one of the best rebounders in the game and he's an absolute great 3 point shooter. Not a big that can shoot like Bosh, but actually a great shooter.

You trade Wiggins for Love...and you are assured of being the favorite in the East for the next 5 years at least...unless injuries happen.

This sounds like the same mistake that Presti made with the Thunder this past season. Always trying to look way too far into the future when the championship is there to be had immediately.

Obviously the Cavs should try not to trade Wiggins, but you don't pass up a 25 year old that is a 26/13/3 when healthy over the last 3 seasons.

There is just too much risk not making a big move. Wiggins, Bennett, Waiters, and Thompson are all unknowns...we really just don't know how good they are. Thompson is up after this coming season. Waiters is up the season after.

They have a need at center as well going forward.

Like I said...you try and move the other guys and picks first, but if it comes down to the only way you get Love is Wiggins. You do it and laugh all the way to being in the finals for a long long time.

And...if the Cavs do give up Wiggins and meet their demands...they can squeeze them for Dieng....as there is no way the Wolves are going to let Dieng hold up a trade to get a great return for Love.

[Kblaze8855]

I dont care for Kevin Love....but hes a 25 year old 26/13 future hall of famer.

With Lebron and Kyrie...

They could win the title next year. And the year after. And the year after....and the year after. It would be 5 years before that team if healthy would even think about retooling.

And in 5 years you have Kyrie and Love in their primes and Lebron winding down.

The odds Wiggins is ever much better than Love are slim. Not because of Wiggins....but because Love is a HOF player in his prime. Every guard to ever be clearly better than Love is first ballot HOF caliber. You cant call any rookie likely to be that before they play a game....

Favoring an unproven guy over Love...at his age....feels more emotional than reasonable. And I once said:



I care about Loves numbers exactly as much as I cared about Antawn Jamison having 30/11 months in Goldenstate and dropping 50 back to back.

Some people just ooze "Meh..."ness. Love is one such player.

He might well make the hall of fame if he doesnt fall off anytime soon. But the hall is full of players who were never elite. Hes a bigtime player. Hes not as bigtime as his numbers. When I need my rim protected im far better off with Darko(healthy) in the game getting half the rebounds than superstar Love and when my bigman doesnt hold down the basket and set a defensive example...ill pass.

There are exception. Dirk for one. But Dirk happens to have among the most unstoppable games ever far as getting a shot he can make under pressure. A skill I feel makes up for needing others to provide defense.

Love isnt a give it to him and get out of the way scorer. Hes an effort scorer. A stand out at the line for 14 seconds till his man has to duck into the paint because of a breakdown scorer.

All well and good to put up numbers. Not what you need out of a player you want to win you close games. He can make a big shot. Most good shooters can. And he is that. But hes not gonna personally generate good looks on a regular basis. Not so far at least.

And when your ppg suggests you are a better scorer than you are, your rebounds suggests you have a huge impact around the basket as most players who get that number do......and you can go drop 50/15 and have people talking you up as better than people who can do half the numbers and make 5 straight shots to win a title?

Perfect storm of overrated.

I dont give a doublestuffed **** what winshares has to say about it.

I have little issue with his personality and dont hate him. So when he plays better....impacts the game at the rate his numbers suggest...ill alter my opinion. But im not doing it in advance.


...so its not like im in love with his game.

But Wiggins would literally have to become Lebron, Durant, or Orlando Mcgrady to justify not giving him up in order to compete for sure the next 5 years. And even then....

All you end up with is a player on Lebrons level with a likely worse supporting cast than the actual Lebron could be given now.

Ive liked Wiggins since watching him eurostep around dudes in his Hs highlights...but if there is a non emotional reason not to trade him for Kevin Love who is only like 2 years older than rookies used to be ive not read it.

Now....would I do it for sure?

No.

But my reasons are emotional not rational.

I dont like Kevin Loves game as much as his numbers suggest I should.

That doesnt make it wise to keep a guy who might be Beasley or might be Tmac....in 5 years....when your team has a superstar in his prime he could pair with and literally win or compete for 4 rings.

If the reasons are "Man....**** Kevin Love..." ill nod in quiet understanding.

But I dont think you can make a sound basketball argument against it.

[305Baller]

Love-Bosh-Duo. Make. It. Happen.

[DMAVS41]

I dont care for Kevin Love....but hes a 25 year old 26/13 future hall of famer.

With Lebron and Kyrie...

They could win the title next year. And the year after. And the year after....and the year after. It would be 5 years before that team if healthy would even think about retooling.

And in 5 years you have Kyrie and Love in their primes and Lebron winding down.

The odds Wiggins is ever much better than Love are slim. Not because of Wiggins....but because Love is a HOF player in his prime. Every guard to ever be clearly better than Love is first ballot HOF caliber. You cant call any rookie likely to be that before they play a game....

Favoring an unproven guy over Love...at his age....feels more emotional than reasonable. And I once said:





...so its not like im in love with his game.

But Wiggins would literally have to become Lebron, Durant, or Orlando Mcgrady to justify not giving him up in order to compete for sure the next 5 years. And even then....

All you end up with is a player on Lebrons level with a likely worse supporting cast than the actual Lebron could be given now.

Ive liked Wiggins since watching him eurostep around dudes in his Hs highlights...but if there is a non emotional reason not to trade him for Kevin Love who is only like 2 years older than rookies used to be ive not read it.

Now....would I do it for sure?

No.

But my reasons are emotional not rational.

I dont like Kevin Loves game as much as his numbers suggest I should.

That doesnt make it wise to keep a guy who might be Beasley or might be Tmac....in 5 years....when your team has a superstar in his prime he could pair with and literally win or compete for 4 rings.

If the reasons are "Man....**** Kevin Love..." ill nod in quiet understanding.

But I dont think you can make a sound basketball argument against it.


Bingo.

Who knows how long Lebron plays, but in 4 years he'll only be 33. He will for sure play longer...what if he gives the Cavs an early discount deal?

Irving is 21, Love is 25, Lebron is 29. That team...with the assets and pieces the Cavs have...would be the overwhelming favorites in the East each of the next 4 years.

When Lebron's contract is up? Irving is 26, Love is 29, and Lebron is 33...still a great group.

I mean...without any major injuries...that group could be a force for the next 8 years if Lebron goes the Duncan route and is willing to sacrifice on and off the court.

Giving up all that for the hope of Wiggins...is silly.

And I'll keep saying it...the Cavs can squeeze the Wolves for Dieng. Giving up Love and a young prospect at center that the Cavs badly need? Really? For Wiggins?

Maybe Wiggins ends up being Kobe. Maybe he ends up being way better than Love. Who knows, but it won't change the fact that right now...not making a move for Love/Dieng when you are looking at at potentially 8 years as a contender is just idiotic.

[La Frescobaldi]

I dont care for Kevin Love....but hes a 25 year old 26/13 future hall of famer.

With Lebron and Kyrie...

They could win the title next year. And the year after. And the year after....and the year after. It would be 5 years before that team if healthy would even think about retooling.

And in 5 years you have Kyrie and Love in their primes and Lebron winding down.

The odds Wiggins is ever much better than Love are slim. Not because of Wiggins....but because Love is a HOF player in his prime. Every guard to ever be clearly better than Love is first ballot HOF caliber. You cant call any rookie likely to be that before they play a game....

Favoring an unproven guy over Love...at his age....feels more emotional than reasonable. And I once said:





...so its not like im in love with his game.

But Wiggins would literally have to become Lebron, Durant, or Orlando Mcgrady to justify not giving him up in order to compete for sure the next 5 years. And even then....

All you end up with is a player on Lebrons level with a likely worse supporting cast than the actual Lebron could be given now.

Ive liked Wiggins since watching him eurostep around dudes in his Hs highlights...but if there is a non emotional reason not to trade him for Kevin Love who is only like 2 years older than rookies used to be ive not read it.

Now....would I do it for sure?

No.

But my reasons are emotional not rational.

I dont like Kevin Loves game as much as his numbers suggest I should.

That doesnt make it wise to keep a guy who might be Beasley or might be Tmac....in 5 years....when your team has a superstar in his prime he could pair with and literally win or compete for 4 rings.

If the reasons are "Man....**** Kevin Love..." ill nod in quiet understanding.

But I dont think you can make a sound basketball argument against it.

Yes and.

If Cavs can draw in a center like a Larry Sanders - exactly for the reasons you list, defense in the key - that team gets crazy kinds of great. Varejao is aging.

I love Pekovic to death but he's not a rim defender. He can play team defense with the best of them but if a guy with elevation gets into the paint it's over. Wolves best plan unfortunately is to break up those two and get a stronger defensive presence at the 4. Pek has elite offensive skills in the post. If Wolves had a Rubio Wiggins going on outside with a powerful defensive forward, they'd actually be a better team.

Adelman was mailing it in last season and did Minnesota a disservice, imo.
I would even put Turiaf at the 4 with Nikola at the 5... and I don't remember seeing that lineup even once last year.

[BoutPractice]

I've always felt Kevin Love was a very specific type of HOF caliber star.

He's someone who can do two things exceptionally well, and one thing really well. He's either average, below average or flat out terrible in everything else.

In other words, he's a "specialist" whose specialties happen to be two of the most highly sought after qualities in a basketball team, especially in the modern era (but clearly it was also highly valued back when Jerry Lucas was rebounding the ball like crazy while making Lucas layups on a nightly basis).

In other words, he's pretty much the opposite of LeBron, who in his prime is such a complete player he could help fill pretty much any hole in any team. He's a "+" player in almost every category. You're lacking in playmaking, shot creating? LeBron helps. Lacking in defense? LeBron helps. Lacking in post scoring? LeBron helps. He can shoot 3s, he might even randomly bail you out by blocking Tiago Splitter, etc. He's not "elite" in every area, but he's almost never a liability.

For that very reason, Love is uniquely suited to being that second or third star next to LeBron. It's like he was destined to be just that. He can finish with 10ish allstars, win two, three titles as the ultimate specialist, and retire with a secure spot in the HOF.


As for Wiggins, I really like his potential. I don't think he's a LeBron. He will probably be less well rounded, with his skillset focused on scoring and defense. Something like a better scoring Paul George (which is what Paul George himself might be a few years from now, who knows) + more of a transition player.

I'm not sure he'll be a "+" in everything (playmaking, passing? I had the same concerns with Durant), but he's a dynamic, two way player, which means that overall, he'll be both "+" on offense and "+" in defense... that's kind of what counts.

In his game, there are elements of 2 guard fluidity reminiscent of young, skinny Kobe and TMac, Dr. J style mastery of the air (he has a similar way of scoring with "one dribble and a finger roll"), but also strong shades of Scottie Pippen. That mix of ingredients could result in something special.

I also think if he stays at Cleveland, he'll develop the same way Kobe, TMac and Paul George did. One season at a time, 7 ppg turns to 15 turns to 20+.


Which is why the best case scenario would be to retain both, but if they have to choose, Cleveland should (and probably will) pull the trigger on Wiggins for Love.

[micz]

Indeed, K Love might be averaging 30 with almost 15 boards in the future.

[navy]

Indeed, K Love might be averaging 30 with almost 15 boards in the future.
He wont average 30 on a good team.

[navy]

I care about Loves numbers exactly as much as I cared about Antawn Jamison having 30/11 months in Goldenstate and dropping 50 back to back.

Some people just ooze "Meh..."ness. Love is one such player.

He might well make the hall of fame if he doesnt fall off anytime soon. But the hall is full of players who were never elite. Hes a bigtime player. Hes not as bigtime as his numbers. When I need my rim protected im far better off with Darko(healthy) in the game getting half the rebounds than superstar Love and when my bigman doesnt hold down the basket and set a defensive example...ill pass.

There are exception. Dirk for one. But Dirk happens to have among the most unstoppable games ever far as getting a shot he can make under pressure. A skill I feel makes up for needing others to provide defense.

Love isnt a give it to him and get out of the way scorer. Hes an effort scorer. A stand out at the line for 14 seconds till his man has to duck into the paint because of a breakdown scorer.

All well and good to put up numbers. Not what you need out of a player you want to win you close games. He can make a big shot. Most good shooters can. And he is that. But hes not gonna personally generate good looks on a regular basis. Not so far at least.

And when your ppg suggests you are a better scorer than you are, your rebounds suggests you have a huge impact around the basket as most players who get that number do......and you can go drop 50/15 and have people talking you up as better than people who can do half the numbers and make 5 straight shots to win a title?

Perfect storm of overrated.

I dont give a doublestuffed **** what winshares has to say about it.

I have little issue with his personality and dont hate him. So when he plays better....impacts the game at the rate his numbers suggest...ill alter my opinion. But im not doing it in advance.


This is a perfect description of Love.

[longtime lurker]

Cleveland is absolutely moronic if they Wiggins. You can get Love without giving up Wiggins. He's leaving Minnesota anyways. The Wolves would be stupid not to get anything for him and unload a bad contract in the process. I don't understand how some GM's could be so stupid. This is nothing like the Carmelo situation, the Knicks traded average players for a guy who they could have signed in the offseason under an uncertain financial climate. Cavs would be trading someone with the potential to be better than Love when they could still offer Minnesota a better deal than they could get anywhere else.

[1~Gibson~1]

Kevin Love sounds cool and all... but why would the Cavs not call around and see what they could get for Waiters+picks instead of trading a guy who ciuld potentially become _______ for Love.

Ive heard:
Prime tmac
Kobe
Pippen
Leonard

Obviously those are all exaggerated, but the point is that he's GOING to be a very good player in this league. I wouldnt trade him just yet.

[knicksman]

LOL another beta who just cares about stats. No wonder this clown is a loser.

[navy]

Kevin Love sounds cool and all... but why would the Cavs not call around and see what they could get for Waiters+picks instead of trading a guy who ciuld potentially become _______ for Love.

Ive heard:
Prime tmac
Kobe
Pippen
Leonard

Obviously those are all exaggerated, but the point is that he's GOING to be a very good player in this league. I wouldnt trade him just yet.

It doesnt matter. Love and Lebron are sure fire title contenders every single year for 3 years straight.

You dont ignore that for a Wiggins who wont be title ready until 7 years from now.

[knicksman]

you dont trade wiggins for love. That guy could be the man lebron wants whereas love is just another beta.

[nathanjizzle]

its either your building around wiggins or lebron. and obviously youre building around lebron, so you get the player that is a veteran in love to play with lebron. if you build around wiggins you keep wiggins and wait for him to become good (maybe) while lebron gets older.

[1~Gibson~1]

It doesnt matter. Love and Lebron are sure fire title contenders every single year for 3 years straight.

You dont ignore that for a Wiggins who wont be title ready until 7 years from now.
Did it take Blake Griffin, Derrick Rose, or Kevin Durant 7 years? All of these guys are #1 draft picks. If he was mid-first or lottery guy, sure id do it because he probably wouldnt have as much potential.

Btw does Love play defense?

Because id rather have Irving-Wiggins-Lebron--TT-AV on defense that Waiters and Irving getting burned, and Kevin Love in the paint.

[Nash]

ya'll crazy if you think Wolves gets Wiggins, Bennett + all of these sweet draft picks Cavs have for Love. Cavs would have nothing left.

Cavs are looking for a 3rd team to complete the trade.

[1~Gibson~1]

its either your building around wiggins or lebron. and obviously youre building around lebron, so you get the player that is a veteran in love to play with lebron. if you build around wiggins you keep wiggins and wait for him to become good (maybe) while lebron gets older.
Why cant LeBron and Wiggins play together :confusedshrug:

Build around Lebron and Kyrie, Wiggins is the complementary piece. He doesnt need the ball, just play D, run in transition, and make a play if the play breaks down. He can do all of those things RIGHT NOW. He'll learn the rest and get better along the way.

Its not like we're asking him to take over the team when we just signed Kyrie to a 5year extension and Lebron James is still the point-forward that he is.

[JZ600]

im surprised i havent seen any "collusion 2.0s"

[DukeDelonte13]

Cavs are in the driver's seat now with all the leverage. They shouldn't give up SH*T for Love. Let him leave in free agency. Wiggins should be completely out of the question for him now.


It's on Minny to either get a return or get nothing.

[navy]

Did it take Blake Griffin, Derrick Rose, or Kevin Durant 7 years? All of these guys are #1 draft picks. If he was mid-first or lottery guy, sure id do it because he probably wouldnt have as much potential.

Btw does Love play defense?

Because id rather have Irving-Wiggins-Lebron--TT-AV on defense that Waiters and Irving getting burned, and Kevin Love in the paint.

Considering none of those guys have won yet? Yes it might very well take 7 years. Hell they might never win. Durant is easily the best player there and is about to enter his 8th year without winning.

The Cavs are going to need a rim protector nomatter if they keep Wiggins or Love. Unless Blatt copies Erick Spolestras defense. Highly unlikely.

Love and Lebron is a sure thing. Wiggins is a project.

[EllisGW]

Cavs are in the driver's seat now with all the leverage. They shouldn't give up SH*T for Love. Let him leave in free agency. Wiggins should be completely out of the question for him now.


It's on Minny to either get a return or get nothing.

Then other teams will go after love haha ... people on are clueless about basketball. The cavs will obviously try and find away to keep wiggins but if they cant, they will trade him.

[GimmeThat]

this probably makes them contender right away.

Irving/James/Love is a really really good combination.
and with Love at PF, Andy V is capable of being productive enough at the C

he's a bigger Haslem

[1~Gibson~1]

Considering none of those guys have won yet? Yes it might very well take 7 years. Hell they might never win. Durant is easily the best player there and is about to enter his 8th year without winning.

The Cavs are going to need a rim protector nomatter if they keep Wiggins or Love. Unless Blatt copies Erick Spolestras defense. Highly unlikely.

Love and Lebron is a sure thing. Wiggins is a project.
Rose was dominant rookie season, Blake was dominant as soon as he stepped on the court, and it took Durant only a few seasons to turn into a superstar. Even before then, he was still a VERY GOOD player.

If we take a look at a number of No.1 overall picks, very few of them ever turn out to be busts and they usually make an impact IMMEDIATELY, and become evem better throughout the careers.

And id rather not have to deal with Love defensive woes unless its for Waiters.

We dont HAVE to trade anyone, Minny does. Why not just trade Waiters elsewhere for a player that fits better while keeping a core of Irving Wiggins Lebron

[navy]

Rose was dominant rookie season, Blake was dominant as soon as he stepped on the court, and it took Durant only a few seasons to turn into a superstar. Even before then, he was still a VERY GOOD player.

If we take a look at a number of No.1 overall picks, very few of them ever turn out to be busts and they usually make an impact IMMEDIATELY, and become evem better throughout the careers.

And id rather not have to deal with Love defensive woes unless its for Waiters.

We dont HAVE to trade anyone, Minny does. Why not just trade Waiters elsewhere for a player that fits better while keeping a core of Irving Wiggins Lebron
We have different definitions of dominant.

I never said Wiggins was bad, I said it will take him years to develop into championship caliber.

The team has defensive woes right now. It will need to be addressed.

I never said that the Cavs have to trade Wiggins. I'm merly saying that if they want to trade for Love and Wiggins is the price they should accept. There are actually better ways Wiggins could be used in a trade though. Hell Love can come on his own.

[GimmeThat]

Rose was dominant rookie season, Blake was dominant as soon as he stepped on the court, and it took Durant only a few seasons to turn into a superstar. Even before then, he was still a VERY GOOD player.

If we take a look at a number of No.1 overall picks, very few of them ever turn out to be busts and they usually make an impact IMMEDIATELY, and become evem better throughout the careers.

And id rather not have to deal with Love defensive woes unless its for Waiters.

We dont HAVE to trade anyone, Minny does. Why not just trade Waiters elsewhere for a player that fits better while keeping a core of Irving Wiggins Lebron


Because there's Waiters at the 2 even if you trade Wiggins
Because Love is a legitimate 3 point threat as well as rebounder
Because Love's size on the defensive end is useful
Because it's Thompson at the 4 right now

Because Wiggins might become an all around player, and there's Irving already

[longtime lurker]

It doesnt matter. Love and Lebron are sure fire title contenders every single year for 3 years straight.

You dont ignore that for a Wiggins who wont be title ready until 7 years from now.

Only to lose to whoever comes out of the West....

You don't trade a number 1 draft pick for a guy who will walk from Minnesota at the end of the season anyways. Even with Love the Cavs aren't a lock for anything considering: rookie head coach, a ridiculously young team and Love/Kyrie's lack of defense. Even with Love they'd still have to go after some vets.

[1~Gibson~1]

We have different definitions of dominant.

I never said Wiggins was bad, I said it will take him years to develop into championship caliber.

The team has defensive woes right now. It will need to be addressed.

I never said that the Cavs have to trade Wiggins. I'm merly saying that if they want to trade for Love and Wiggins is the price they should accept. There are actually better ways Wiggins could be used in a trade though. Hell Love can come on his own.
So you dont think that Wiggins could do develop in a role similar to Kawhi Leonard? Because thats what his future looks like in Cleveland.

The Cavs have shut off talks of trading Wiggins ( but we all know how that goes ) so I think the FO must really like him and arent thinking about trading him at all anyway.

My whole thing is, if you can furthee improve this team while keeping Irving-Wiggins-Lebron then you do it. If not, I think we should target someone not named Kevin Love. And if we do make a trade it should be Waiters who will be moved for a quality starting rim protector. That way we still keep our three biggest pieces and get what we want.

[ArbitraryWater]

LeBron/Wiggins could be a devastating defensive duo, and would wreck havoc on teams on fastbreaks, a transition dunkfest off turnovers..


Can't wait... Get Love while not loosing Wiggins. Please, it's the last step to be made.

[1~Gibson~1]

Because there's Waiters at the 2 even if you trade Wiggins
Because Love is a legitimate 3 point threat as well as rebounder
Because Love's size on the defensive end is useful
Because it's Thompson at the 4 right now

Because Wiggins might become an all around player, and there's Irving already
Irving and Waiters in the backcourt together didnt work out the first time.

Kevin Love is a great player but I have to believe that there are better options for the Cavs that include trading Waiters for a better piece.

Keep Wiggins.

[navy]

So you dont think that Wiggins could do develop in a role similar to Kawhi Leonard? Because thats what his future looks like in Cleveland.

The Cavs have shut off talks of trading Wiggins ( but we all know how that goes ) so I think the FO must really like him and arent thinking about trading him at all anyway.

My whole thing is, if you can furthee improve this team while keeping Irving-Wiggins-Lebron then you do it. If not, I think we should target someone not named Kevin Love. And if we do make a trade it should be Waiters who will be moved for a quality starting rim protector. That way we still keep our three biggest pieces and get what we want.
Im not that high on Kawhi Leonard. Dude is a great system player.

Agreed. Im just saying, Wiggins for Love isnt a tough choice if you are looking to win now. I personally wouldnt give anything for Love as he is a free agent next year.

[GimmeThat]

Irving and Waiters in the backcourt together didnt work out the first time.

Kevin Love is a great player but I have to believe that there are better options for the Cavs that include trading Waiters for a better piece.

Keep Wiggins.

okay.

because by the time Wiggins develope, other teams/players would have changed team in order to beat the Cavs roster. All while most people would agree that trading for Love TODAY makes the Cavs an instant contender.

unless you have a great argument as to how keeping Wiggins means that Cavs will be 3peating 3-5 years down the road, instead of just winning 1 or 2 in the next 6-7 years

[iamgine]

Kevin Love is only 25. Irving is 23. Lebron 29. All bonafide stars, something that Wiggins might not become.

When Lebron declines in 4 years, Love and Irving would be just in their peak.

They get to contend for a long long time keeping this core together.

If they can keep Wiggins at the same time, that's even better but Love is worth losing Wiggins and some picks.

[DukeDelonte13]

Then other teams will go after love haha ... people on are clueless about basketball. The cavs will obviously try and find away to keep wiggins but if they cant, they will trade him.


Doesn't change the fact Love can still be an FA, and teams aren't going to trade for him if they know he won't commit... people are clueless about basketball.

[oh the horror]

Cleveland went from hurtin' big time to having an issue that most teams would love to have. Ain't that some shit.

[1~Gibson~1]

okay.

because by the time Wiggins develope, other teams/players would have changed team in order to beat the Cavs roster. All while most people would agree that trading for Love TODAY makes the Cavs an instant contender.

unless you have a great argument as to how keeping Wiggins means that Cavs will be 3peating 3-5 years down the road, instead of just winning 1 or 2 in the next 6-7 years
Im not banking on his development. I think he contributes alot to our team next year with his defense and athleticism alone.

What he does 4-6 years from now will be a bonus from having the #1 pick in the draft.

[Eric Cartman]

Why not just sign him outright next year?

[1~Gibson~1]

Why not just sign him outright next year?
No cap space

[Rose'sACL]

if love is verbally committing to re-signing next year and wolves are ready to trade him for wiggins straight up then cavs would be fools not to do this trade.

[La Frescobaldi]

if love is verbally committing to re-signing next year and wolves are ready to trade him for wiggins straight up then cavs would be fools not to do this trade.
They would be stupider than the guys on this exact thread who seem to think Wiggins is already better than Love. What a joke.
That deal would literally never happen

[3LiftHeatCurse]

Cleveland went from hurtin' big time to having an issue that most teams would love to have. Ain't that some shit.
NBA rigging the draft for 3 out of 4 years since LeQuit left them surely helped.

[Kblaze8855]

If we take a look at a number of No.1 overall picks, very few of them ever turn out to be busts and they usually make an impact IMMEDIATELY, and become evem better throughout the careers.


Love is better than like 32-33 #1 overall picks ever were already.

And hes 25.

As I said...if he literally becomes Lebron James good(and he wont) you have prime Lebron with prime Kyrie in 5 years. Compared to prime Lebron, damn near prime Kyrie, and prime Love now? You get a worse team in 5 years than you would have tomorrow.

You would be virtual locks to be in the finals soon.

Nothing about any rookie is a virtual lock. Not like we are talking Shaq or Duncan here.

The Cavs settled for Wiggins when their desired pick got hurt.

Lets not act like he was the guy from day one. They looked over the options decided not to pick him and their desired pick got hurt. And they brought in Parker too who had an awful workout(for whatever reason). So there is no pretending he was just....their guy. Hes the guy they settled for.

Hes talented.

Hes not Lebron come again.

Lebron was a 27/7/7 player at Wiggins age. Im sure we all doubt hes capable of that now even on a bad team.

Wiggins might be a star one day. Love is a hall of famer today at 25.....and would fit in perfectly with that team

Love 60 foot outlets to Lebron....Lebron drive and kicks to Love....Kyrie/Love pick and roll....Love cleaning up the boards kicking it back out?

That's a dream scenario. I don't **** with Kevin Love at all.

You make him your #3.....hes among the best any team ever had.

Not THE best.

But among them.

[Im Still Ballin]

Love is better than like 32-33 #1 overall picks ever were already.

And hes 25.

As I said...if he literally becomes Lebron James good(and he wont) you have prime Lebron with prime Kyrie in 5 years. Compared to prime Lebron, damn near prime Kyrie, and prime Love now? You get a worse team in 5 years than you would have tomorrow.

You would be virtual locks to be in the finals soon.

Nothing about any rookie is a virtual lock. Not like we are talking Shaq or Duncan here.

The Cavs settled for Wiggins when their desired pick got hurt.

Lets not act like he was the guy from day one. They looked over the options decided not to pick him and their desired pick got hurt. And they brought in Parker too who had an awful workout(for whatever reason). So there is no pretending he was just....their guy. Hes the guy they settled for.

Hes talented.

Hes not Lebron come again.

Lebron was a 27/7/7 player at Wiggins age. Im sure we all doubt hes capable of that now even on a bad team.

Wiggins might be a star one day. Love is a hall of famer today at 25.....and would fit in perfectly with that team

Love 60 foot outlets to Lebron....Lebron drive and kicks to Love....Kyrie/Love pick and roll....Love cleaning up the boards kicking it back out?

That's a dream scenario. I don't **** with Kevin Love at all.

You make him your #3.....hes among the best any team ever had.

Not THE best.

But among them.
good post.

[1~Gibson~1]

I wouldnt trade AW for KL because I think he can be had for other pieces on our team.

Sure Minny will demand Wiggins. But **** them. They have no leverage. I'll offer you Waiters and Thompson and 3 first round picks. If you think you can find a better deal, so be it.

And we've already assured Wiggins that he wont be traded anyways so...

[Kblaze8855]

I wouldn't take the entire Cavs roster Lebron/Kyrie/Wiggins aside for Love if you threw in 3 picks. Not because Love is that good....because nobody else on the Cavs matters.

Does that mean nobody else on the Cavs is decent?

No. It means they are all irrelevant players league wise. They don't make you anything and have little potential to be great pieces. They don't really matter...they are roster filler.

Which is what 4-12 guys are supposed to be.

And the Cavs picks with Lebron/Kyrie/Love? Why do I want #29?

The Heats lottery protected picks?

Eh.

To be clear im not saying they wouldn't do it.

Teams make idiotic decisions all the time. Stars get traded for peanuts all the time.

Im just saying....it would be stupid.

Im not denying that stupidity exists....so its entirely possible.

Anything is possible when Vince Carter in his prime gets traded for Eric Williams, A-train, and rehab Zo who they knew wouldn't come to Toronto.

[1~Gibson~1]

But then again.. what other option do they have?

I guess they could always wait and look for a better option but i would think now is the time to make a move.

[Purch]

The Cavs hesitating on an obvious move :facepalm

[Kblaze8855]

But then again.. what other option do they have?

I guess they could always wait and look for a better option but i would think now is the time to make a move.

And why is that?

What do they risk by waiting?

Nothing the Cavs can offer would excite anyone. They would hardly be better off than if he walked for nothing. Thompson is 23 Waiters is 22 and Love is 25.

So we arent even talking getting younger guys to start over with. Just worse guys you hopefully get another star to let them play under.

Love is pretty much just starting. He could realistically be the same guy for the next 8 years or so. Hes around the age Lebron was when he left for Miami. Hes got plenty of time left.

There have only been 4-5 swingmen drafted in the last 20 years to be flat out clearly better than Love. The odds of Wiggins being that are somewhat slim. And as ive said...if he is all you get is a worse version of the team you could have tomorrow.....and make yourseves less likely to win in the years from now till then.

And thats if Wiggins turns into a legit superstar...a generational player. And if the Cavs were convinced of that I suspect he would have been the pick all along. Embiid is healthy he doesnt go #1...or #2.

He isnt one of those no brainer picks. Hes a good young player id like to see do well. He just isnt worth more than a hall of famer who is 25 and fits in with the potential team more than anyone else...in the entire league.

What ive been hearing from Cavs fans is that they feel the ycan rob Minnesota and get Love while giving them nothing they care about. Which...if you can...fine.

By all means rob and steal away.

But if it comes down to it....it would seem foolish to bet on maybe over sure thing...when the sure thing is barely getting started.

[Dr.J4ever]

And why is that?

What do they risk by waiting?

Nothing the Cavs can offer would excite anyone. They would hardly be better off than if he walked for nothing. Thompson is 23 Waiters is 22 and Love is 25.

So we arent even talking getting younger guys to start over with. Just worse guys you hopefully get another star to let them play under.

Love is pretty much just starting. He could realistically be the same guy for the next 8 years or so. Hes around the age Lebron was when he left for Miami. Hes got plenty of time left.

There have only been 4-5 swingmen drafted in the last 20 years to be flat out clearly better than Love. The odds of Wiggins being that are somewhat slim. And as ive said...if he is all you get is a worse version of the team you could have tomorrow.....and make yourseves less likely to win in the years from now till then.

And thats if Wiggins turns into a legit superstar...a generational player. And if the Cavs were convinced of that I suspect he would have been the pick all along. Embiid is healthy he doesnt go #1...or #2.

He isnt one of those no brainer picks. Hes a good young player id like to see do well. He just isnt worth more than a hall of famer who is 25 and fits in with the potential team more than anyone else...in the entire league.

What ive been hearing from Cavs fans is that they feel the ycan rob Minnesota and get Love while giving them nothing they care about. Which...if you can...fine.

By all means rob and steal away.

But if it comes down to it....it would seem foolish to bet on maybe over sure thing...when the sure thing is barely getting started.

I haven't read the whole thread, so pardon me if I'm bringing up something that has already been discussed here.

But the question here is--how good really is Kevin Love? And why hasn't he taken any team to the 8th seed in the WC to get a playoff berth? I know about his stats and all, but in the beginning of last season, a lot of people thought they(Minny) could be a playoff team with the roster they had. They had a good coach, a decent PG in Rubio, shooters, a good center in Pekovich.

Doesn't it bother anyone that Love can't even take his own team to the playoffs in an era where half the teams in the league make the playoffs? Is Love amassing, dare I say it, "empty stats"?

The term "empty stats" are not a myth. Many "stars" in the history of the NBA have amassed large stats playing for borderline good to bad teams. Much of their stats have not resulted in winning.

The assumption all over the media is that Kevin Love is a prime time player. It is said you can build a team around Love. On the contrary, this is no longer in the realm of guesswork. The Wolves have tried to build teams around Love, and not only have they missed the playoffs, but they have not been close to being a good team, like say the Phoenix Suns.

So when Cavs fans hesitate in trading a player like Wiggins, whose forte at this point of his career is the one trait Love has been deficient at, I can understand.

However, if any team needs help from the Sixers, Hinkie will be glad to assist in any way if we can get Wiggins. :lol

[GimmeThat]

I guess Kevin Love is the handicap on your scoreboard before the game starts.

[Kblaze8855]

If you read a few pages back you will see I dont even like Kevin Love. Ive never liked Kevin Love outlet passing aside.

But I try not to let such things cloud my common sense.

[BigTicket]

The question isn't how good Love is, it's how much can the Wolves get for him ?

When a player tries to force his way to a trade, his team very rarely gets equal value for him. The Raptors didn't get much for Vince, the Magic didn't get much for Dwight, the Nuggets didn't get much for Carmelo, etc. etc.

He's walking for sure if they wait, so they have to accept some trade, and it is has to be a trade that Love will accept. Maybe Golden State manages to come up with an offer, but it doesn't seem like they have so far.

None of the contenders have picks that are better than what the Cavs are offering, and I haven't seen many offers of good young players either.

It's true that 2 mid first round picks + some combination of Waiters/Bennett/Thompson is not equal value for Love. But I don't think the Wolves have been offered anything better yet, and they may not be.

[Kblaze8855]

Wiggins wouldnt equal value for Love either. Just a matter of the margin.

And I know stars rarely get traded for equal value. They dont even have to demand a trade for that to be the case.

My issue with it is just from a basketball point of view.

[BigTicket]

Wiggins wouldnt equal value for Love either. Just a matter of the margin.

And I know stars rarely get traded for equal value. They dont even have to demand a trade for that to be the case.

My issue with it is just from a basketball point of view.

What would you do if you were the Wolves GM ?

Personally I think I'd wait a while to see if better offers come in, and if not I'd probably have to take the Cavs deal, but I'd make sure that the picks I got were the Heat and Grizzlies, not the Cavs own.

[poido123]

Now that Melo is off the table, I can imagine Chicago in desperation giving up too much in a trade for love or signing Stevenson to a large contract :lol

Back in 2010, we overpaid that lard ass boozer as our last realistic choice.

[Kblaze8855]

Hard to say when I cant call other teams and see what the offers are.

Waiters is a dime a dozen. Good young player. You arent building around him.

Same for Thompson.

Bennett? Who knows...we do know hes nothing right now.

Im not sure how those players help more than the 17 million in cap space id be spending on them next year(meaning 15/16).

If you rebuild...rebuild. Get pieces to go towards that. If the Cavs thought those guys were special they wouldnt have drafted replacements(AB for Tristian and Wiggins for Waiters). And the first guy they took may end up the biggest bust of all time...or might turn into a decent player. Cant say.

I can say its a package nobody can sell to a fanbase who is paying attention.

Unless I had some inside info on AB coming around I might let him walk before I take some ok young players to front like im rebuilding around.

Getting something only matters when its something worthwhile. Im bnot sure I wanna pay that package 17 million a season.

[GimmeThat]

What would you do if you were the Wolves GM ?

Personally I think I'd wait a while to see if better offers come in, and if not I'd probably have to take the Cavs deal, but I'd make sure that the picks I got were the Heat and Grizzlies, not the Cavs own.

when you really think about it, any offer is going to be better than the Cavs offer at this point.

any future picks are going to have a much better chance at staying with Wolves as well as turning into building blocks for a FA signing than Wiggins.


I don't think Wiggins will be happy about missing out on the opportunity to play with Lebron. Or at least he hasn't shown so (while some others may)

So what good is trading for an expiring contract that's got multiple years left on it still?



While it was perhaps a bitter move, I did not fault the Lakers FO for trading away Odom after the CP3 trade was blocked and Odom expressed about how unhappy he was about the deal.

[BigTicket]

Since the Wolves already have a ton of guards, and Wiggins is apparently off limits, I think the best deal the Cavs can offer will be something like:

Tristan Thompson
Anthony Bennett
Brendan Haywood (expiring contract to make the money match)
Grizzlies 2015 pick
Heat 2015 pick

Obviously not that great, but it will be interesting to see if the Wolves end up taking it.

[BigTicket]

Im not sure how those players help more than the 17 million in cap space id be spending on them next year(meaning 15/16).

Problem with that is that no big free agent is going to sign in Minnesota after Love walks.

[GimmeThat]

Problem with that is that no big free agent is going to sign in Minnesota after Love walks.


well, we saw Hayward/Parson getting close to max money this offseason.

that's a potential upgrade.



when you are a playoff team, I'd like to think that players don't generally complain too much being traded there.

especially one who hasn't been there. that could be an advantage.

[lilgodfather1]

What this really comes down to, at this moment, is the Wolves are not in any hurry right now, and why should they be. They have months before the season starts to try and get a better deal out of someone. This isn't a oh shit his value drops like a rock tomorrow situation, yet.

The closer we get to the season, they will take whichever offer is best, and that is the Cavs offer. The Memphis pick, is a nearly guaranteed lotto pick, it only comes to the team if it is pick 6-14, so it is a pretty good asset. The Miami pick, will be a middle of the road pick, without LeBron on the team. The Cavs have to keep their own 2015 pick, since they traded their 2016 pick.

Waiters, who can realistically be a 20ppg scorer, with above average defense, and Bennett who can only improve, plus Hopsons unguaranteed deal, the Miami pick, and Memphis pick, is a pretty decent haul.

[Kblaze8855]

No big one. But some more useful than the cavs package. Plus you never really know. Money talks.

You wont sign a Lebron or Durant with just money. You can pry some good players away though.

[lilgodfather1]

No big one. But some more useful than the cavs package. Plus you never really know. Money talks.

You wont sign a Lebron or Durant with just money. You can pry some good players away though.
The Memphis pick *could* come to fruition next year, and the Miami pick will barring a catastrophic event. So Minni's package could be 14, 21, and 5 for the #1 pick. That's a lot better, if they can get it done, than overpaying a role player.

[BigTicket]

I think it'll be months before we see Love get traded, since the Wolves will want to explore every option they have, but in the end I do think they will trade him, and the Cavs seem to be one of the frontrunner for that deal.

If you're the GM that let Kevin Love walk for nothing, I think you'd be fired he left the building.

[Carbine]

Dion Waiters a dime a dozen?

How many games of his have you watched, Kblaze888555?

He's one of the better 6th man scorer types you will find. He's only 22.

Talking out of your ass it seems.

[Kblaze8855]

Almost all 6th men types are dime a dozen.

Guys like that have more value to an already good team than being given a larger role than their talent justifies on a bad one.

Im not hungry for Bobby Jackson types to rebuild around.

I'll trade for one when the rebuild is nearing final stages.

[BoutPractice]

I think it'll be months before we see Love get traded, since the Wolves will want to explore every option they have, but in the end I do think they will trade him, and the Cavs seem to be one of the frontrunner for that deal.

If you're the GM that let Kevin Love walk for nothing, I think you'd be fired he left the building.

Yeah.

But I think Love to Cavs is essentially a done deal, the same way LeBron to Cavs already was two days before he announced.

First, I'm pretty sure Love is not stupid and wants to go to the Cavs knowing that he can actually win titles there. Him going to the Cavs will completely shift the narrative of his career from perennial loser to a guy people all over the world see on their TV /computer screens every June for the next five years... it's the kind of gift from above you just don't refuse. Other options he might be officially "considering", but his desired future is with the Cavs.

Second, Cavs have the means to get him, and have wanted to get him for a long time. When they thought they could get LeBron, and when LeBron thought of coming there, it was with the idea of the LeBron/Kyrie/Love Big 3 in mind.

Third, because it was the plan all along, the Cavs will eventually pull the trigger, no matter what it takes (and that includes Wiggins). Of course, Minnesota knows that, so as long as there's another theoretical deal out there they call any bluff by the Cavaliers until they offer Wiggins...

[DMAVS41]

I wouldn't take the entire Cavs roster Lebron/Kyrie/Wiggins aside for Love if you threw in 3 picks. Not because Love is that good....because nobody else on the Cavs matters.

Does that mean nobody else on the Cavs is decent?

No. It means they are all irrelevant players league wise. They don't make you anything and have little potential to be great pieces. They don't really matter...they are roster filler.

Which is what 4-12 guys are supposed to be.

And the Cavs picks with Lebron/Kyrie/Love? Why do I want #29?

The Heats lottery protected picks?

Eh.

To be clear im not saying they wouldn't do it.

Teams make idiotic decisions all the time. Stars get traded for peanuts all the time.

Im just saying....it would be stupid.

Im not denying that stupidity exists....so its entirely possible.

Anything is possible when Vince Carter in his prime gets traded for Eric Williams, A-train, and rehab Zo who they knew wouldn't come to Toronto.


The bold is the key point. Cavs fans have over-rated the shit out of Thompson and Waiters and Bennett. They aren't special players. They are good young players with potential, but they don't hold much value around the league in terms of trades.

They are the types of guys that get average trade value, but teams will over pay the shit out of them in free agency. Just kind of the way this crazy NBA market works.

The 3 picks are really valuable assets though. So I think that is where we disagree. Waiters/Thompson and 3 first rounders...with two of them potentially in the top 15...that is a nice haul for a team even if you don't use them and it's just more trade bait.

Based on the offers I've seen for Love...Waiters/Thompson and 3 first rounders beats them all in my opinion.

[Carbine]

We just saw a team win a title where 4-12 (Ok, not 12, but 10) matter. It mattered to the degree of a championship.

Disregarding 4-12 on a roster is how the OKC Thunder have only one trip to the finals to their resume.

Obviously 1-3 matter way more than 4-12......but 4-12, if good, can take your team to a different level. If you have a bunch of dime a dozen 4-12 players.....it's a huge concern.

Thompson at worst can be a big off the bench who will contribute.

Waiters is a good player. He can score in bunches. He's not a dime a dozen - those who say that have no idea. He's a piece to the puzzle for a young rebuilding team. He's not THE piece. But a good piece.

Bennett is an unknown but the talent is obvious. You can't really put a concrete value on him. If you believe in his talent, you value him pretty high.

1st round picks are always in demand.

[DMAVS41]

We just saw a team win a title where 4-12 (Ok, not 12, but 10) matter. It mattered to the degree of a championship.

Disregarding 4-12 on a roster is how the OKC Thunder have only one trip to the finals to their resume.

Obviously 1-3 matter way more than 4-12......but 4-12, if good, can take your team to a different level. If you have a bunch of dime a dozen 4-12 players.....it's a huge concern.

Thompson at worst can be a big off the bench who will contribute.

Waiters is a good player. He can score in bunches. He's not a dime a dozen - those who say that have no idea. He's a piece to the puzzle for a young rebuilding team. He's not THE piece. But a good piece.

Bennett is an unknown but the talent is obvious. You can't really put a concrete value on him. If you believe in his talent, you value him pretty high.

1st round picks are always in demand.


Oh, I totally agree that aren't worthless on a team. I think Waiters/Thompson/Bennett can absolutely play key roles. I was more talking about their trade values.

I'm not sure they are as valuable as Cavs fans think. Especially when Thompson can opt out after this year and Waiters the next iirc.

it's those 3 first round picks that are the most valuable thing the Cavs have at this point. I'd be pushing hard to make moves with Waiters/Thompson and those 3 first rounders...

The Cavs have two big needs in my opinion;

1. They need to use their assets to get a legit star or superstar players. Obviously Love is the first name that comes to mind because he's just absolutely the perfect fit next to Lebron.

2. A center for the future. Losing Zeller hurts a bit here because he was good. Obviously they had to do it to get Lebron, but Andy might have to be moved in a trade and they need a center. The last thing the Cavs should do is play without a center....especially if they get Love.


And they have the assets to do it. That is why I'm not against the Wiggins for Love swap. I think the Cavs could hold firm and say fine...we'll give you Wiggins (the number 1 pick in a loaded draft that will be with you a long time)...if you give us back Dieng along with Love. The Wolves would obviously do this as there is nothing they can get that remotely compares to Wiggins locked into a rookie contract.

I guess I just don't see how the Cavs pass up on Love/Dieng for Wiggins and filler to make the money work.

They get the perfect PF that is likely a better player right now than Wiggins ever will be. And they get a really good young center with a lot of potential.

Then they'd still have Waiters/Thompson/Bennett and at least a couple picks to make some more moves as well.

This is why I like the Wiggins trade...maybe even more than the Cavs getting Love while keeping Wiggins.

I like Thompson, but he's going to get overpaid next summer. Do the Cavs really want to do that? Wouldn't they be better off trading for proven players or a single player than having to risk losing Thompson in free agency?


The simple fact is this. Kyrie/Love/Lebron over the next 8 years would have a chance to make the finals 6 times if they stay healthy....so you do it.

[BallsOut]

The bold is the key point. Cavs fans have over-rated the shit out of Thompson and Waiters and Bennett. They aren't special players. They are good young players with potential, but they don't hold much value around the league in terms of trades.

They are the types of guys that get average trade value, but teams will over pay the shit out of them in free agency. Just kind of the way this crazy NBA market works.

The 3 picks are really valuable assets though. So I think that is where we disagree. Waiters/Thompson and 3 first rounders...with two of them potentially in the top 15...that is a nice haul for a team even if you don't use them and it's just more trade bait.

Based on the offers I've seen for Love...Waiters/Thompson and 3 first rounders beats them all in my opinion.

Love for 2 bench role players and 2 first round picks that's probably going to be beyond #15 and most likely in the #25+ range is a horrible deal for Minnesota.

Let's not forget that the Cavs offered the #1 pick in this year's draft for Love(rejected)
Celtics offered #6 (turned out to be highly touted Marcus Smart) for Love
Lakers offered #7 (turned out to be highly touted Julius Randle) for Love (rejected)
Golden State offered David Lee and Klay Thompson who's a better two way player than both Waiters/Thompson combined.

So don't tell me Minnesota has to settle for the Cav's crap. I don't care how much you want it to happen. Minnesota is not stupid enough to trade Kevin Love for two glorified bench role players and the bust that is Anthony Bennett when they've had at least 4 better offers already.

[BigTicket]

So don't tell me Minnesota has to settle for the Cav's crap. I don't care how much you want it to happen. Minnesota is not stupid enough to trade Kevin Love for two glorified bench role players and the bust that is Anthony Bennett when they've had at least 4 better offers already.

Ok, please tell us what Minnesota will trade Love for then ? What's the great offer out there that they will get ?

[BallsOut]

Ok, please tell us what Minnesota will trade Love for then ? What's the great offer out there that they will get ?

Kevin Love, Corey Brewer and Ronny Turiaf for Andrew Wiggins, Tristian Thompson, Anderson Verejao (expirer), and 2 first round picks.

Proven superstar player for potential superstar player + decent backup big and a couple of picks. Both teams get better.

[Meticode]

Hard to say when I cant call other teams and see what the offers are.

Waiters is a dime a dozen. Good young player. You arent building around him.

Same for Thompson.

Bennett? Who knows...we do know hes nothing right now.

Im not sure how those players help more than the 17 million in cap space id be spending on them next year(meaning 15/16).

If you rebuild...rebuild. Get pieces to go towards that. If the Cavs thought those guys were special they wouldnt have drafted replacements(AB for Tristian and Wiggins for Waiters). And the first guy they took may end up the biggest bust of all time...or might turn into a decent player. Cant say.

I can say its a package nobody can sell to a fanbase who is paying attention.

Unless I had some inside info on AB coming around I might let him walk before I take some ok young players to front like im rebuilding around.

Getting something only matters when its something worthwhile. Im bnot sure I wanna pay that package 17 million a season.
I don't find this true in this case. The Cavaliers drafted what they thought was the best talent available with their picks for Bennett and Wiggins. They did the same thing with Waiters. They felt Waiters could be an explosive scorer in the league and in his second year already he was second in the league in scoring off the bench.

[Kingwillball]

Cavs are not giving up their 3 top bigs for love.. Also Bennett a bust ? 20 years old kid lost a lot of weight will only be better. He reminds me of a potential combination of milsap and Larry Johnson..

[BallsOut]

Cavs are not giving up their 3 top bigs for love.. Also Bennett a bust ? 20 years old kid lost a lot of weight will only be better. He reminds me of a potential combination of milsap and Larry Johnson..

Let's be realistic. Anthony Bennett reminds me a young Kendrick Perkins, minus the defense and mean mugs.

[RedBlackAttack]

I wonder how many combined Cavs games the people arguing about these players actually watched last year... or the year before? :oldlol:

I guess everyone has an opinion, but it is funny watching people scramble around trying to formulate an in-depth opinion on Dion Waiters.

He has the potential to be a really good player. He has an elite first step, is very strong driving to the basket and can absorb contact, very good handle for a 2-guard/combo, underrated playmaking skills, and a much improved jumpshot... and he's only 22.

He has struggled with his finishing amongst the trees, which is not uncommon for young, talented players. His left hand still needs some work. But, he can get to the cup basically anytime he wants and there were long stretches last year where he was the best passer on the team.

Meanwhile, he raised his 3-point shooting percentage something like seven whole points from his rookie season to his sophomore year. He can also be a very good midrange shooter.

Really, the sky is the limit for Dion. There's no reason that he has to be relegated to a 6th man role for the entirety of his career.

Everyone is obsessing over Klay Thompson... check out their respective numbers from last season, because they're pretty damn close, all things considered. Yeah, Klay is more of a floor spacer, but I'd be weary of putting him on a team without elite PG play, because his playmaking skills are virtually nonexistent, as is his ability to create his own shot at times.

[Meticode]

Let's be realistic. Anthony Bennett reminds me a young Kendrick Perkins, minus the defense and mean mugs.
Yes, the first thing I thought of when Bennett ran the floor for the monster two hander was Kendrick Perkins.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-agjH0GLvEs

[DMAVS41]

Love for 2 bench role players and 2 first round picks that's probably going to be beyond #15 and most likely in the #25+ range is a horrible deal for Minnesota.

Let's not forget that the Cavs offered the #1 pick in this year's draft for Love(rejected)
Celtics offered #6 (turned out to be highly touted Marcus Smart) for Love
Lakers offered #7 (turned out to be highly touted Julius Randle) for Love (rejected)
Golden State offered Klay Thompson who's a better two way player than both Waiters/Thompson combined.

So don't tell me Minnesota has to settle for the Cav's crap. I don't care how much you want it to happen. Minnesota is not stupid enough to trade Kevin Love for two glorified bench role players and the bust that is Anthony Bennett when they've had at least 4 better offers already.


Meh....

Thompson and Waiters are not two bench players. Thompson will be a for sure starter in the league...

Also, how are the Wolves keeping Klay? I personally think Klay is over-rated and likely to leave.

David Lee and Klay Thompson is nowhere near as good an offer as Waiters/Thompson and 3 first round picks in my opinion.

[RedBlackAttack]

Yes, the first thing I thought of when Bennett ran the floor for the monster two hander was Kendrick Perkins.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-agjH0GLvEs
Keep in mind that the people talking about these guys have probably never seen them play. Kendrick Perkins? Really? :roll:

[Carbine]

:roll:

[DMAVS41]

Just a reminder to some people here;

Melo at age 26 was traded to the Knicks for;

Mozgov
Wilson Chandler
Felton
Galanari
First round pick

And you guys think Waiters/Thompson and 3 first round picks for Love is bad? LOL

[Kblaze8855]

I see everyone play. I watched Waiters and Bynum eat up the Bulls one game.

I didnt say hes not a good player. I said if the Cavs thought he were special I dont see them looking to replace him. Were they not saying Wiggins would play the 2 even before Lebron came? Why when Wiggins is traditional 3 size and Waiters is there?

A backup comboguard on a bad team is rarely special.

Does it happen?

yes.

Is he more likely to peak as a 21ppg player on a team that wishes it didnt have to rely on him so much than as a legit star?

Id say so.

Hes not someone you consider for one second when adding players to your team. You wouldnt add a point because Kyrie is there. You wouldnt look to add a bigtime swingman with both Wiggins and Lebron on board. You limit Wiggins minutes and take the ball from the best player in the league.

Waiters you dont put one speck of thought into before deciding who to acquire.

Really thats a pretty good way to gauge a players value to me. Do I need to consider his existence when deciding on additions?

If not...hes probably not special.

Kyrie appears special.

Waiters does not.

Is that really so much of an insult?

Most....good young players...are not special.

[BallsOut]

Just a reminder to some people here;

Melo at age 26 was traded to the Knicks for;

Mozgov
Wilson Chandler
Felton
Galanari
First round pick

And you guys think Waiters/Thompson and 3 first round picks for Love is bad? LOL

I'm pretty sure you're lying now. The Nuggets got way more than a single first round pick out of the deal. Plus Nuggets got rid of a bunch of bloated contracts. Also Cavs can't trade 3 first round picks. They only have two. Can't trade consecutive first rounders. Do your research son. Two glorified bench role players and a couple picks for a superstar player is retarded.

[DMAVS41]

I'm pretty sure you're lying now. The Nuggets got way more than a single first round pick out of the deal. Plus Nuggets got rid of a bunch of bloated contracts. Also Cavs can't trade 3 first round picks. They only have two. Can't trade consecutive first rounders. Do your research son. Two glorified bench role players and a couple picks for a superstar player is retarded.

lying?

that was the meat of the deal iirc. I'm sure the Nuggets got some additional 2nd rounders and cash or something, but unless my memory is fading...that was the main part of the deal.

The Cavs would gladly take back Kevin Martin from the Wolves as well...in fact, they'd want to if they lost Waiters in the deal.

[RedBlackAttack]

I see everyone play. I watched Waiters and Bynum eat up the Bulls one game.

I didnt say hes not a good player. I said if the Cavs thought he were special I dont see them looking to replace him. Were they not saying Wiggins would play the 2 even before Lebron came? Why when Wiggins is traditional 3 size and Waiters is there?

A backup comboguard on a bad team is rarely special.

Does it happen?

yes.

Is he more likely to peak as a 21ppg player on a team that wishes it didnt have to rely on him so much than as a legit star?

Id say so.

Hes not someone you consider for one second when adding players to your team. You wouldnt add a point because Kyrie is there. You wouldnt look to add a bigtime swingman with both Wiggins and Lebron on board. You limit Wiggins minutes and take the ball from the best player in the league.

Waiters you dont put one speck of thought into before deciding who to acquire.

Really thats a pretty good way to gauge a players value to me. Do I need to consider his existence when deciding on additions?

If not...hes probably not special.

Kyrie appears special.

Waiters does not.

Is that really so much of an insult?

Most....good young players...are not special.
First, I wasn't directing that solely at you. It was more aimed at people who compare Anthony Bennett's game to Kendrick Perkins. :oldlol:

But, if that's your stance, it is fair.

Then again, let me ask you this... how many times has a team with a player on the last year of his deal who has made it clear they're walking away in free agency gotten a "special" piece in return for him as they desperately try to make a move? Recent history tells us it almost never happens.

And I do think Waiters has the ceiling to eventually become "special." I wouldn't put him there now, but it's not like he can't eventually get there.

When you look at what OKC received for Harden in a very similar situation, a Waiters-Thompson-2 firsts looks like a damn good package.

[RedBlackAttack]

I'm pretty sure you're lying now. The Nuggets got way more than a single first round pick out of the deal. Plus Nuggets got rid of a bunch of bloated contracts. Also Cavs can't trade 3 first round picks. They only have two. Can't trade consecutive first rounders. Do your research son. Two glorified bench role players and a couple picks for a superstar player is retarded.
You know nothing, Jon Snow. If this is your mentality, you're going to be disappointed about whatever the TWolves get for Love. Bet on that.

[pegasus]

You know nothing, Jon Snow. If this is your mentality, you're going to be disappointed about whatever the TWolves get for Love. Bet on that.
You might get an arrow in the back next summer like she did.

[Kblaze8855]

As I said earlier if you think you can **** Minnesota over enjoy...im not saying not to try.

I just dont want to hear that it wouldnt be fair to give Wiggins for Love.

By all means...dont be fair. Most trades are a ****ing to some degree.

[DMAVS41]

As I said earlier if you think you can **** Minnesota over enjoy...im not saying not to try.

I just dont want to hear that it wouldnt be fair to give Wiggins for Love.

By all means...dont be fair. Most trades are a ****ing to some degree.

It shouldn't be fair though.

Minnesota is in a shit position and has no leverage. They will be lucky to get 75 cents on the dollar.

in fact, that would be a huge win for them.

[1~Gibson~1]

As I said earlier if you think you can **** Minnesota over enjoy...im not saying not to try.

I just dont want to hear that it wouldnt be fair to give Wiggins for Love.

By all means...dont be fair. Most trades are a ****ing to some degree.
I dont think you understand the business side of the nba,..... at all.

Most deals are 50-50.

But the Wolves are in a position where, if they dont trade KL they lose him in free agency for nothing.

So be prepared to sort through all of the shitty offers (and im only calling them shitty because youre never going to find a conpletely fair package for a guybas valuable as kevin love) and pick the best one.

Whoch is probably Clevelands Waiters + Benett and picks because I just cant think of a better offer out there right now.

They coukd always wait, but his value might go up, it might go down as well.

[Kblaze8855]

I doubt you would find many here who could discuss as many "They had no choice" trade rapings off the top of their head as I can. I never said Minnesota would get what Love is worth.

I said Love is worth Wiggins and would be a smart basketball decision.

I didnt say basketball was the only factor.

What bugs me is people actling like Wiggins is worth more than Love...because its absurd. Especially to this Cavs team.

And really...not doing it because Minnesota might allow themselves to get ****ed over could cost Cleveland rings.

Both sides have to balance pride and basketball.

Minnesota is the only team that can be screwed here. Cleveland wins either way. Just a matter of how ruthless they try to be...and if that bites them in the ass.

They end up with both...well done.

They have to pick one and its Wiggins....that team is worse than it otherwise could be.

For several years at least. And these next 3-4 years are the last of Lebrons prime. Not maximizing them seems a waste. If Love were 30....it would make sense to pin the future on Wiggins.

Love might be a star for 10 more years.

[DMAVS41]

I doubt you would find many here who could discuss as many "They had no choice" trade rapings off the top of their head as I can. I never said Minnesota would get what Love is worth.

I said Love is worth Wiggins and would be a smart basketball decision.

I didnt say basketball was the only factor.

What bugs me is people actling like Wiggins is worth more than Love...because its absurd. Especially to this Cavs team.

And really...not doing it because Minnesota might allow themselves to get ****ed over could cost Cleveland rings.

Both sides have to balance pride and basketball.

Minnesota is the only team that can be screwed here. Cleveland wins either way. Just a matter of how ruthless they try to be...and if that bites them in the ass.

They end up with both...well done.

They have to pick one and its Wiggins....that team is worse than it otherwise could be.

For several years at least. And these next 3-4 years are the last of Lebrons prime. Not maximizing them seems a waste. If Love were 30....it would make sense to pin the future on Wiggins.

Love might be a star for 10 more years.

Of course Wiggins isn't worth more than Love. Right with you there.

But what options do the Wolves really have? As of now...Thompson isn't on the table from Golden State...and I think he's over-rated to begin with and isn't exactly a lock to stay in Minny.

What other offers look great out there?

I mean...I agree with most of what you've had to say, but you act like Thompson/Waiters and 3 first round picks is some shit offer. It's not at all. It's easily better than the deal the Nuggets got when Melo left.

[BigTicket]

I'm in full agreement that the Cavs should trade Wiggins for Love, but unfortunately it does not seem like they will. So I'm left with the hope that they can get him without trading Wiggins, which might still be possible.

The one team that could possibly beat the Cavs offer is the Suns. They have better picks, and they might be willing to part with some of their quality guards (since they have a million of them). The question then would be whether Love is interested in that.

Love himself could also decide to take a more active role in this, by telling the Wolves which teams he's willing to be traded to.

[The Choken One]

No way you trade Wiggins IMO.

[BallsOut]

Whoch is probably Clevelands Waiters + Benett and picks because I just cant think of a better offer out there right now.

This is bullshit. Waiters is a glorified bench role player and Anthony Bennett is already a bust. Dude puts up prime Kendrick Perkins like numbers. Minnesota is not retarded. They've already rejected offers 10 times better than the crap you just proposed.

Let's not forget that:

Cavs offered the #1 pick in this year's draft (rejected)
Celtics offered #6 which turned out to be highly touted Marcus Smart (rejected)
Lakers offered #7 which turned out to be highly touted Julius Randle (rejected)
Golden State offered David Lee and Klay Thompson (rejected)

Why should Minnesota settle for Cleveland's trash when they have rejected way better deals?

[Kblaze8855]

I have no idea what's out there. It rarely ends up what we discuss.

[DMAVS41]

I'm in full agreement that the Cavs should trade Wiggins for Love, but unfortunately it does not seem like they will. So I'm left with the hope that they can get him without trading Wiggins, which might still be possible.

The one team that could possibly beat the Cavs offer is the Suns. They have better picks, and they might be willing to part with some of their quality guards (since they have a million of them). The question then would be whether Love is interested in that.

That last part is key.

If the Suns are offering Blesoe and loads of picks...then that is the best offer I've seen. But will Love agree to extend there long term? That is the big question.

If not...then the Cavs, even without Wiggins, have the next best offer.

All this takes is Love saying;

"I'm not going to extend anywhere but Cleveland or Golden State...and then. Wolves have lost any bit of leverage they have.

I don't think enough of you guys are factoring in the power Love has. All he has to do is say..."no, i'm not signing there"...and that ends any trade unless there really are teams willing to gut themselves for a 1 year rental.

[Carbine]

Bledsoe & Rubio would be a horrible fit in the backcourt.

Give me Waiters + Bennett over that all day.

[Dr. Cheesesteak]

This is bullshit. Waiters is a glorified bench role player and Anthony Bennett is already a bust. Dude puts up prime Kendrick Perkins like numbers. Minnesota is not retarded. They've already rejected offers 10 times better than the crap you just proposed.

Let's not forget that:

Cavs offered the #1 pick in this year's draft (rejected)
Celtics offered #6 which turned out to be highly touted Marcus Smart (rejected)
Lakers offered #7 which turned out to be highly touted Julius Randle (rejected)
Golden State offered David Lee and Klay Thompson (rejected)

Why should Minnesota settle for Cleveland's trash when they have rejected way better deals?
uhh...GSW actually rejected that offer.

[DMAVS41]

This is bullshit. Waiters is a glorified bench role player and Anthony Bennett is already a bust. Dude puts up prime Kendrick Perkins like numbers. Minnesota is not retarded. They've already rejected offers 10 times better than the crap you just proposed.

Let's not forget that:

Cavs offered the #1 pick in this year's draft (rejected)
Celtics offered #6 which turned out to be highly touted Marcus Smart (rejected)
Lakers offered #7 which turned out to be highly touted Julius Randle (rejected)
Golden State offered David Lee and Klay Thompson (rejected)

Why should Minnesota settle for Cleveland's trash when they have rejected way better deals?


First of all. That was before Lebron was on the Cavs....it was Love that rejected it. Not the Wolves iirc.

Smart is nowhere near as good as Waiters/Thompson/picks
Randle is nowhere near as good as Waiters/Thompson/picks

Klay Thompson is not on the table according to sources. Also, Klay is over-rated and do the Wolves really want to pay him 16 million a year after this season?

Of all those offers...Waiters/Thompson and 3 first rounders would be by far the best. It's not even close actually.

[protox]

That last part is key.

If the Suns are offering Blesoe and loads of picks...then that is the best offer I've seen. But will Love agree to extend there long term? That is the big question.

If not...then the Cavs, even without Wiggins, have the next best offer.

All this takes is Love saying;

"I'm not going to extend anywhere but Cleveland or Golden State...and then. Wolves have lost any bit of leverage they have.

I don't think enough of you guys are factoring in the power Love has. All he has to do is say..."no, i'm not signing there"...and that ends any trade unless there really are teams willing to gut themselves for a 1 year rental.

Didn't Howard try that to get to the Nets and he ended up as a Lakers. Correct me if I'm wrong.

[DMAVS41]

Didn't Howard try that to get to the Nets and he ended up as a Lakers. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Yes, and the Lakers assumed he'd resign. Which he didn't. That is my point. I don't see how a team trades for Love unless he's at least open to staying.

That Suns offer could be great, but if Love doesn't say he's at least open to staying...they can't make that move.

[BallsOut]

First of all. That was before Lebron was on the Cavs....it was Love that rejected it. Not the Wolves iirc.

Smart is nowhere near as good as Waiters/Thompson/picks
Randle is nowhere near as good as Waiters/Thompson/picks

Klay Thompson is not on the table according to sources. Also, Klay is over-rated and do the Wolves really want to pay him 16 million a year after this season?

Of all those offers...Waiters/Thompson and 3 first rounders would be by far the best. It's not even close actually.

Waiters/Thompson have already reached their ceilings. Smart/Randle/Wiggins have the potential to be franchise players for their respective teams. Potential franchise player >>>>>>>>>> Glorified bench role players.

Minnesota already rejected #1 for Love which turned out to be Wiggins. And quit dangling the three first round picks. Cavs can only trade 2 first round picks.

[DMAVS41]

Waiters/Thompson have already reached their ceilings. Smart/Randle/Wiggins have the potential to be franchise players for their respective teams. Potential franchise player >>>>>>>>>> Glorified bench role players.

Minnesota already rejected #1 for Love which turned out to be Wiggins. And quit dangling the three first round picks. Cavs can only trade 2 first round picks.

Well, I dont' trust anything you say. You were wrong about the initial trade.

Even if it's two first rounders...that is fine. You just don't take back Dieng.

And what the **** are you talking about...Waiters and Thompson have reached their ceilings...they are under 25 you moron.

I'm done with you. Waste of time. You don't know what you are talking about here....clearly.

Still waiting for you to explain why Wiggins would make less than half the first pick made last year.

[BallsOut]

Well, I dont' trust anything you say. You were wrong about the initial trade.

Even if it's two first rounders...that is fine. You just don't take back Dieng.

And what the **** are you talking about...Waiters and Thompson have reached their ceilings...they are under 25 you moron.

I'm done with you. Waste of time. You don't know what you are talking about here....clearly.

Still waiting for you to explain why Wiggins would make less than half the first pick made last year.

Can't say I expect much from DMAVS/ginobili. Resorting to insults when he can't continue a debate.

#1 pick for Love was rejected. No way Wolves settle for anything less than Wiggins in any Cavs trade for Love. Get that through your thick skull.

[KyrieTheFuture]

Waiters/Thompson have already reached their ceilings. Smart/Randle/Wiggins have the potential to be franchise players for their respective teams. Potential franchise player >>>>>>>>>> Glorified bench role players.

Minnesota already rejected #1 for Love which turned out to be Wiggins. And quit dangling the three first round picks. Cavs can only trade 2 first round picks.
:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm
:biggums:

[DMAVS41]

Can't say I expect much from DMAVS/ginobili. Resorting to insults when he can't continue a debate.

#1 pick for Love was rejected. No way Wolves settle for anything less than Wiggins in any Cavs trade for Love. Get that through your thick skull.

Moron. You didn't even understand the correct numbers.

I'm not saying what the Wolves will do...I'm saying that thompson, andy, Waiters, and 2 first round picks (if you are right for once) is better than any of the offers you have given.

you know nothing if you think Waiters and Thompson have hit their ceilings.

You don't know what you are talking about dude.


Again, please explain to me why wiggins would make less than half what bennett did last year? you have failed to answer this.

[BigTicket]

The way I look at it is this. Love has to approve any trade, and he's only going to do that for a team that can contend, which means the team that he's going to cannot trade away an essential player to get him.

Teams that could contend if they added Love are basically all the teams that won 45+ games last year (plus Cleveland)

So that's these teams:

East:
Indiana - no tradeable assets
Miami - no tradeable assets
Toronto - no tradeable assets
Chicago - no tradable assets
Cavaliers - Various young player + picks

West:
San Antonio - Could trade Leonard, but they won't
Oklahoma City - Could trade Ibaka, but they won't
LA Clippers - no tradeable assets
Houston - no tradeable assets
Portland - no tradeable assets
Golden State - Klay Thompson + fillers
Memphis - no tradeable assets
Dallas - no tradeable assets
Phoenix - Bledsoe + picks

Out of all of those Phoenix would have the best offer, if they decide to make it. Otherwise the Cavs seem to have the most.