Would YOU trade Wiggins for Love?

[fandarko]

I know this question has been posed in many threads, directly or indirectly.

You are Cleveland, what do you do?

I'm referring to a possible 1 for 1 trade, no other players involved.

Wolves get Wiggins, Cavs get Love. End of story.

Second question - how much leverage do you think Lebron's got in this?

Do you think they've discussed it upfront with Lebron?

Maybe it's the second part of the Decision 2.0 - they make a trade for Love (I don't see who else other than Bosh they could take that makes them championship competitive) and immediately become contenders.

I wouldn't trade Wiggins, but that's me. Lebron needs to win now and they can't retool by keeping all the assets they've currently got.

For Wiggins there is no much difference, honestly. If he ends up in Minny, he will benefit from Rubio's passing and get his minutes.

[LBJFTW]

I know this question has been posed in many threads, directly or indirectly.

You are Cleveland, what do you do?

I'm referring to a possible 1 for 1 trade, no other players involved.

Wolves get Wiggins, Cavs get Love. End of story.

Second question - how much leverage do you think Lebron's got in this?

Do you think they've discussed it upfront with Lebron?

Maybe it's the second part of the Decision 2.0 - they make a trade for Love (I don't see who else other than Bosh they could take that makes them championship competitive) and immediately become contenders.

I wouldn't trade Wiggins, but that's me. Lebron needs to win now and they can't retool by keeping all the assets they've currently got.

For Wiggins there is no much difference, honestly. If he ends up in Minny, he will benefit from Rubio's passing and get his minutes.

Hell no. Who knows when Bron will stop playing and trying like he did last time. Need a guy like Wiggins who can deliver the chip once Bron checks out and refuses to try.

[TheMan]

Hell no

[qrich]

No.

I wouldn't deal Waiters and Jack for Love.

[NumberSix]

I would. You're insane if you don't.

Wiggins is a question mark. Love is a sure thing.

[DMAVS41]

I would. You're insane if you don't.

Wiggins is a question mark. Love is a sure thing.

This.

This is the dumbest question. I can't believe I'm hearing this shit.

If you can get it done without Wiggins it's great, but if you have to trade Wiggins..you do it.

And you make them give you back Dieng so you get a center on a great contract with loads of potential.

[GODbe]

We'll need both of them, so no.

[kennethgriffin]

Yes. Wiggins is all potential. Love is a top 10 player right now

[Droid101]

Trying to win now? Obviously. Love is a first/second team all NBA player.

Tanking for the future? Wiggins is the obvious pick.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

I would try my very very best for a Love trade without wiggins but if I HAD to i'm leaning yes...Not sure though..could be convinced either way

[qrich]

This.

This is the dumbest question. I can't believe I'm hearing this shit.

If you can get it done without Wiggins it's great, but if you have to trade Wiggins..you do it.

And you make them give you back Dieng so you get a center on a great contract with loads of potential.

Says one is a dumb question.

Proceeds to state that the Wolves should give up Dieng as well.

[Godzuki]

i really like Wiggins from what i've seen of him.

I like Love a lot too. but doesn't it seem like he always gets these freak injuries every year?

i'd really want to see Wiggins play some games before shipping him. he could be special.

[Dro]

Like others have said...hell no.....

[Akrazotile]

Im not sold that Love's defense at the PF spot can be covered up enough to get a team to the finals and win. Personally Id be looking at making a trade to miami for bosh!

[BigTicket]

Yes, I would.

Wiggins might be great in the future, but he could also be a bust. Either way he'll need at least a few years to get there.

Love is very good right now, and combined with Lebron and Irving he would make the Cavs a top contender for the next five years.

[TheReal Kendall]

I wouldn't trade him.

Does Cavs have enough money to sign a free agent? Somebody like Blatche or Ariza

[BigTicket]

I wouldn't trade him.

Does Cavs have enough money to sign a free agent? Somebody like Blatche or Ariza

No, the Cavs won't have any cap space left after signing Lebron.

[chips93]

Yes, I would.

Wiggins might be great in the future, but he could also be a bust. Either way he'll need at least a few years to get there.

Love is very good right now, and combined with Lebron and Irving he would make the Cavs a top contender for the next five years.

this

lebron wont be at an mvp level forever, we have to go aggressively into 'win now' mode

[CelticBaller]

Yes

[bdreason]

I wouldn't. Not until I got to see at least a year of Wiggins.

Wiggins was better in HS than Love, better in College than Love... I don't see any reason he won't be better than Love in the NBA.

[DMV2]

You fools can keep Mr. Empty Stats who can't play a lick of defense.

Wiggins >>> Love without playing a single game.

[bdreason]

And why is Love being talked about like he's some veteran NBA player? Guy has never even been to the playoffs... but he's supposed to be final piece to an NBA championship? :confusedshrug:

[TheReal Kendall]

And why is Love being talked about like he's some veteran NBA player? Guy has never even been to the playoffs... but he's supposed to be final piece to an NBA championship? :confusedshrug:

This x1000


I don't understand it. ISH is so flip floppy. Just a few months ago people was clowning Love and now this dude is all of a sudden the guy you need that will guarantee you a ring.:facepalm

[TonyMontana]

The chances of Wigggins being as good as Love are pretty slim, as good a prospect as he is.

That said why trade Wiggins when you can potentially throw Minnesota a package of your trash (Waiters, Bennett, first rounders?) and still get him? Minnesota has no leverage at all. Love will be leaving regardless.

[1~Gibson~1]

Would I trade Wiggins for Love?

Well, let me put it to you this way. Im just glad im not the GM because this trade or no trade could go good or bad either way.

[jbryan1984]

The ball is in our court. He is leaving Minny anyways, they should take what they can get before they lose him for nothing. I would offer any combo I could without including LeBron, Wiggins or Kyrie. If it really did come down to it and LeBron was on board with it, yes I probably would give Wiggins up at the end of the day. You really can't beat a big 3 like that, so young and so much to offer. All can do different things.

[Kvnzhangyay]

This x1000


I don't understand it. ISH is so flip floppy. Just a few months ago people was clowning Love and now this dude is all of a sudden the guy you need that will guarantee you a ring.:facepalm

Even though Love isn't playoff seasoned Wiggins isn't even NBA SEASONED yet, and the Cavs are pretty much going win now mode

[DMV2]

Maybe I'm crazy but I like the Irving-Wiggins-LeBron-TT(or Bennett)-Varejao line-up already and thinks they can at least make an ECF appearance next season.

[Bernkastel]

If I'm Cleveland, the yes. Seriously, it's Cleveland. All they need to do is win ONE championship and that town will be set for another 50 years.

[Dro]

This x1000


I don't understand it. ISH is so flip floppy. Just a few months ago people was clowning Love and now this dude is all of a sudden the guy you need that will guarantee you a ring.:facepalm
This is true though......He was empty stats this and empty stats that.....Now that he can play with Lebron, all of a sudden he's the final piece, lol.....

Now, me personally, I like Love and think he's a great player.....I've never down talked him myself but Kendall is right when he says ISH was clowning the dude....

[FireMcFailPlease]

interesting answers. say it takes Wiggins 2-3-4 years to reach full potential. LBJ is 33 by then...what if he starts to slow down and Wiggins isn't good enough to pick up LBJ's slack as he ages.

Or...just take the for sure player in Love, have him as a hell of a 2nd/3rd option, and see how it goes as long as the east is weaker than shit

[MavsSuperFan]

99% of the time no, wiggins is the much better defender and love is mr. empty stats

However in this special situation of an aging lebron, I would. By the time wiggins gets into his prime, lebron will be near the end of his.

Also I have always thought love would make a great supporting piece. Just not the cornerstone of a franchise. Sort of like a pau gasol.

[DirkNowitzki41]

Hell no. Wiggins > Love

[bluechox2]

minny would be re tarted to take back the cavs trash bin for love

they better get wiggins and a bunch of picks

[Asukal]

All for love baby. :oldlol:

[chips93]

minny would be re tarted to take back the cavs trash bin for love

they better get wiggins and a bunch of picks

minny doesnt have much leverage here though

the clock is ticking, and there arent any great offers out there, for the cavs to have to outbid

minny cant let him walk and get nothing in return

[fandarko]

To further elaborate on this... What's better for Wiggins?

One could argue he won't get as many touches now that Lebron's in town.

And he needs touches and space to make mistakes in order to better his overall game, especially offense. He needs the ball to try to create if he is to get better at his handle and shotmaking. He needs touches to shoot it, since he has a nice J.

Minny would be perfect for him. Pekovic and that other guy Dyeng what's his name would see an increased role with Love gone. You have Wiggins suddenly becoming the lead wing, with Rubio serving him alley oops. I bet the fans in Minny secretly want this to happen. Love is great, but he is not an exciting player. With the current roster, the Wolves aren't getting anywhere. Wiggins is not going to propel them to the playoffs, but he would be a fresh face that will attract more crowd and he could be a great duo with Rubio. If Wiggins becomes more assertive (becoming at least partially a focal point on offense), they could become the poor man's lob city.

It's maybe a win-win deal for both teams and players?

[1~Gibson~1]

I wouldnt worry too much about Wiggins getting touches. If you watch basketball you'd realize that plays break down and players have to pass the ball eventually. Swing it to Wiggins, let him run free.

[Kukoc]

No way

[FireMcFailPlease]

minny doesnt have much leverage here though

the clock is ticking, and there arent any great offers out there, for the cavs to have to outbid

minny cant let him walk and get nothing in return
clocks ticking? he has a whole other season to play for Minnesota if nothing happens this summer. LMFAO

[Marchesk]

What has Wiggins done that is so much better than Love? He wasn't that great at KU, given all the hype. And in his one tourney game, he gets completely shut down.

Love was "empty stats" on the Wolves. But he won't be the main piece on Cleveland. Lebron is. He becomes another piece to put around Lebron. A guy who can score and rebound. Unlike the rest of Miami against the Spurs.

Wiggins is all potential at this point. He might be great, but you don't know that. And you don't know how long it will take him to get there. He's not the second coming of MJ. You know what Love is at the NBA level, and he's still young.

Also, Love is a power forward. Wiggins plays the same position as Lebron.

[LA_Showtime]

They have all summer, and all reports indicate Saunders is hesitant to let Love go, so I would see what else is out there first.

[Marchesk]

Hell no. Wiggins > Love

Based on what? His one year at KU? His vertical?

How good was KU this past season btw? Did they go far in the tourney?

[2swift4u]

Yes!

[jayfan]

No.

Tonight's game will be interesting.







.

[greymatter]

Wouldn't think twice about it.

Wiggins is raw and plays the 3. No matter how much upside he has, his development will be hampered by being the 3rd option. A LBJ/Love/Verajao frontcourt translates into a top 3 rebounding team. They could also feature a small ball lineup with Lebron and Love at the 4/5.

This team becomes the scariest offensive juggernaut in the league after they've had some time to gel.

[chips93]

the cavs front office have publicly said that they see wiggins as a 2

he could be a monster defensively playing shooting guard

[TheGreatDeraj]

No way I give up Wiggins for Love.

Kyrie
Waiters
Wiggins
Lebron/Bennett
Varejao

They could go Lebron/Varajao PnR with three legit wing players out there in case the defense dare's to help. Or even better they could put Lebron in the low post or high post. Possibly run horns. Get Lebron close to the paint as often as possible. Also run Irving/Waiters with Lebron as the big guy PnR or pop. That lineup would be near impossible to guard. If you want Lebron at the 3 and a Stretch 4 just put in #1 pick Bennett, he will be much better this year.

The only problem with this lineup is interior defense, which Love doesn't bring anyways.

Wiggins is too good of a prospect to let go for Kevin Love, Wiggins could turn into Lebron's Pippen.

[ace23]

Why wouldn't you?

Keep Wiggins: Underutilize a #1 overall pick who could be traded for value. He may or may not live up to his potential. Either way, he will be underutilized until Lebron leaves. Skip out on opportunity to win multiple championships by bringing in a proven superstar.

Trade Wiggins: Bring in superstar big man to play alongside all-star point guard and all-time great SF. Get value for #1 pick. Abandon unproven hype-driven SF who may or may not cut it in the NBA.


It's a no-brainer to me. There's no reason to keep Wiggins.

[J.101]

Is he good? Can the cavs get him?

[red1]

I dont think it is a smart move personally especially since it is possible to get love without moving your #1 pick. That said I have a hunch that wiggins will be moved for an established star just because he wasnt mentioned in the sports illustrated letter

[RIP CITY]

I wouldn't trade Wiggins for Love but I admit that's me putting alot of blind faith in Wiggins potential, it's definitely possible he doesn't live up to the hype. But I hope it does happen because I like Wiggins and have always hated the Cavs, I'd much rather see him in Minnesota.

[BigBoss]

Yes. Kevin Love is only 25. Lock him up long term, and you got a core of Kyrie/Lebron/Love for multiple years. Two of them aren't even in their primes yet.

[robert de niro]

man people sure love potential :oldlol:

[JtotheIzzo]

man people sure love potential :oldlol:

Its not potential when you are watching it unfold before your eyes.

[Marchesk]

Its not potential when you are watching it unfold before your eyes.

What, at KU for one season? Summer league? You guys act like he's been doing this in NBA games.

I don't get the Wiggins love. He's a nice prospect. Maybe he becomes a superstar or very good player. But nobody knows that. You know what Love brings you. It's a better fit, and Love is a known commodity. Wiggins is not.

You take the better fit and try to win now, not three years from now.

[Swaggin916]

Wiggins is going to be a stud would not trade. Guy has an unblockable shot with good form that is only going to improve... amazing first step and great motor. He;s going to be a stud plain and simple.

[chopchop20]

If I see skills like this outta Wiggins in the summer league, I'd keep'em:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LE7iCJHscu4

[Meticode]

If I see skills like this outta Wiggins in the summer league, I'd keep'em:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LE7iCJHscu4
I would post a picture of someone sucking Kobe's dick in relation to your post, but such a thing doesn't exist.

[Meticode]

No Doubt Love is the better player NOW but Wiggins is enough to win the Championship.

We are getting Love without giving up Wiggy so dont even worry about it.
Your LeBron act needs to stop and you need to have a female Homo sapien actually touch you in a sexual way and make you ejaculate to some extent so you can move on with your life.

[Timmy D for MVP]

I seem to be one of the few who are not so certain about Love with this squad. Like people assume it'll make them title favorites and no one will touch them and all that but that seems a bit quick.

That said Love is a sure thing. Wiggins is not. The only hold up for me would be health. But if I could be sure it's all good. Yes. Pull that trigger.

[chopchop20]

I would post a picture of someone sucking Kobe's dick in relation to your post, but such a thing doesn't exist.

Please keep your fantasies to yourself.

[Meticode]

Why are you hating? Im about to bring the Championship to our home. You need to be supportive instead being negative.

You will jerk off more then ever after you get a taste of Winning and thank me later.

Your Hero

L B J the Chosen One
Cleveland isn't my home. Shows what you know.

[Meticode]

Please keep your fantasies to yourself.
You're the one posting Kobe videos in a Wiggins thread out of the blue. Do you dream about Kobe at night?

[chopchop20]

You're the one posting Kobe videos in a Wiggins thread out of the blue. Do you dream about Kobe at night?

Nope... I dream of Beyonce

[Meticode]

Nope... I dream of Beyonce
Get some *****. Jesus Christ. You're thirsty as ****. Day dreaming about Kobe, then going to be dreaming about Beyonce.

[Meticode]

Oh Im sorry for not knowing where your geek ass live :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

One thing for dam sure represent that Jersey and MY Team son since there will only be good times me carrying Cavs to Victory.


There is no Greater King then I, THE CHOSEN ONE !


WITNESS SON !
:sleeping

[Meticode]

Does ***** juice obey your thirst?

In that case Fuccck SPRITE !
Powerade it up.

[chopchop20]

Get some *****. Jesus Christ. You're thirsty as ****. Day dreaming about Kobe, then going to be dreaming about Beyonce.

Naw bruh... you're the only one with Kobe in your dreams. Your preference for giving fellatio totally gave you away

[Meticode]

Naw bruh... you're the only one with Kobe in your dreams. Your preference for giving fellatio totally gave you away
Fly on.

[GimmeThat]

If I don't.

Anthony Davis is certainly on my Radar.

MAYBE Dwight Howard, but he's had that surgery.

[IMObjective]

Oh! I will ~

Gatorade gave me Cramps
:oldlol: I swear, meticode wasn't this antagonistic before. Having LeBron back means inheriting the new excess hate that he comes with and that can probably get a bit taxing, but cav fans should be happy as fvck. Who cares about random internet hate when you have lbj on your team.

[blacknapalm]

absolutely. i realize what wiggins' ceiling is but it's a few years away and by then, lebron will be in his mid thirties. meanwhile, love in his prime and a top 5 PF in the game. love gives the cavs the best chance for them to win in the next couple seasons, maybe even beyond.

wiggins' ceiling may be higher by a tad but his floor is considerably lower than what love is now. there's been plenty of athletic wings with a shaky handle and jumper that have gone through this league.

a PF that can rebound, pass and shoot the 3...something that is very compatible with bron's game is a nice addition. also will get outlet passes going to bron/irving. ya, i understand the defense issues but i honestly think that's overstated. if you can even get dieng in this deal, you're out of your mind to not agree.

if cavs don't want to do it, they better have a plan of calling t-wolves' bluff by the trade deadline or aggressively going after love in the offseason. that or wiggins just shows enough of that potential that satisfies everyone.

if cavs fail to win a championship during bron's tenure and wiggins fails to live up to the hype, this will be one of the biggest 'what if' questions ever.

[comerb]

Love isn't what the Cav roster needs, and it has nothing to do with him being better than Wiggins. They aren't going to have any trouble scoring or rebounding even without him. They need someone to cover up the defensive liability that Irving presents, and they need someone who can keep up with the pace of a young running team. That's Wiggins.

Love would slow them down, the loss of Wiggins would make Irvings defense a glaring hole, and they'd create another glaring defensive hole with Love himself. That's just too many defensive holes for a championship caliber team.

Now if we were talking about giving up Wiggins for Anthony Davis. Then **** yeah.

[ronnymac]

Irvin
Waiters
LBJ
Love
Sideshow bob

That Is a damn good rebounding and scoring frontcourt.Love>>>Bosh.

[BrownEye007]

Love isn't what the Cav roster needs, and it has nothing to do with him being better than Wiggins. They aren't going to have any trouble scoring or rebounding even without him. They need someone to cover up the defensive liability that Irving presents, and they need someone who can keep up with the pace of a young running team. That's Wiggins.

Love would slow them down, the loss of Wiggins would make Irvings defense a glaring hole, and they'd create another glaring defensive hole with Love himself. That's just too many defensive holes for a championship caliber team.

Now if we were talking about giving up Wiggins for Anthony Davis. Then **** yeah.
Obviously. There's no chance the Pelicans would ever do that though.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Love isn't what the Cav roster needs, and it has nothing to do with him being better than Wiggins. They aren't going to have any trouble scoring or rebounding even without him. They need someone to cover up the defensive liability that Irving presents, and they need someone who can keep up with the pace of a young running team. That's Wiggins.

Love would slow them down, the loss of Wiggins would make Irvings defense a glaring hole, and they'd create another glaring defensive hole with Love himself. That's just too many defensive holes for a championship caliber team.

Now if we were talking about giving up Wiggins for Anthony Davis. Then **** yeah.


No he wouldn't...Love is one of the best outlet passers in the game...he would speed them up if anything..

[rhowen4]

If I'm playing along... Maybe, I don't know.

Otherwise my actual answer is no, since undoubtedly the deal would get sweeter for the cavs the closer to trade deadline we get.

[sbw19]

No. Love wants out. LeBron (plus Irving) is a big incentive for a FA like him to join. Coach too.

[yellowlebron]

Yeh, if GSW were willng to give up Klay and the Timberwolves were on the verge of accepting. Wiggins can't shoot. Remember how terrible the Heat offense was last year with Wade, whose shooting is about on par at the moment with Wiggins? Getting Love unlocks the offense.

A starting five of Irving, Wiggins, James, Thompson and Varejao will get ****ing congested.

[JtotheIzzo]

What, at KU for one season? Summer league? You guys act like he's been doing this in NBA games.

I don't get the Wiggins love. He's a nice prospect. Maybe he becomes a superstar or very good player. But nobody knows that. You know what Love brings you. It's a better fit, and Love is a known commodity. Wiggins is not.

You take the better fit and try to win now, not three years from now.

Summer league is not about going out and scoring a shit load of points, I think a lot of the guys there could take games over if they wanted to, it is about doing things that you will be doing during the year when the full compliment of players is there.

You look at specific instances:

The ability to knock down the step back.

The ability to step through the double team and finish above the rim.

The ability to provide above the rim weakside help on the bigs.

The ability to block shots on the perimeter.

The ability to play up tempo.

The ability to find the back door cutting lanes and finish.

The ability to wreak havoc in the passing lanes.

When you see a player flash all these skills right from the start it is very impressive. When you know that you can work with this kid, set up plays for him to be successful, and it becomes more than potential it becomes a piece of a bigger puzzle.

He is not scoring on reverse layups or circus shots, he is making prime time plays fluidly and effortlessly.

[Jasper]

You must prove your self in the NBA.

I remember back in the 70's and 80's , where vet's would welcome an upstart rook , with a blow to the floor.

This league doesn't do that any more , but LOVE is a proven player , where few thought out of UCLA would be nothing more than a average boards guy and bench player.

Granted his numbers are eye popping for a team that hasn't seen the playoff's , but how he has done it , would most certainly assist a championship contending team.... it's called experience.

[Nash]

Wiggins value won't get higher than now since he hasn't showed his flaws on an nba court. If you want something for him, you better get it now.

[Thorpesaurous]

Here's an Insider Article from Jeff Goodman on the topic polling some anonymous team execs. Favor is slightly toward keeping Wiggins.

[QUOTE]Most GMs wouldn't trade WigginsNBA execs polled say no deal, even for Kevin Love
Updated: July 14, 2014, 1:34 PM ETBy Jeff Goodman | ESPN Insider

New Cleveland Cavaliers coach David Blatt maintains that No. 1 pick Andrew Wiggins isn't going anywhere, not even in a package that would return proven All-Star big man Kevin Love.

The 19-year-old Wiggins has tremendous upside, as has been evident in glimpses thus far throughout his two summer league appearances. His young legs and athleticism could be an ideal fit alongside LeBron James, and LBJ also could help him with the killer instinct many feel is lacking in his game.

However, there's little doubt that the 6-foot-10 Love would allow LeBron's Cavs to make a legitimate run at an NBA championship sooner. The skilled big man can score in the post and also beyond the 3-point line, is one of the game's top rebounders and also is one of the elite passing big men.

The 25-year-old Love averaged 26.1 points and 12.5 rebounds per game last season while Wiggins has yet to play in an official NBA contest.

We posed the question to a dozen NBA folks whether they would move Wiggins in a deal for Love. There would have to be other assets (i.e. Anthony Bennett and Dion Waiters) moved to Minnesota as well as Wiggins, but our focus was Wiggins and Love.


You'll be surprised by the results -- which worked out to be 7-5 in favor of keeping Wiggins.




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Wiggins support


"Love is so overrated. He's never won," one NBA executive said. "I'd wait if I was Cleveland. I wouldn't involve Wiggins in a trade for Love."

"Kevin is a perimeter big," added one coach. "He needs to have the ball on multiple possessions to be really effective. It will be very difficult for a first-year coach to divide possessions between LeBron, Kyrie and Love."

"Wiggins is going to be really good in time," added an NBA general manager. "Right now he can shoot and defend. Playing off LeBron and Kyrie [Irving] will take a lot of the pressure off him in the present. He could become a go-to scorer in a few years."

"Star potential on rookie scale deal for four years," another GM added.

"I feel like Wiggins may only be a year or so away from being a legit contributor," one front-office executive said. "And Wiggins is cheap, so you are able to add more. Love is gonna cost a ton."




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Love support


"Why wait on Wiggins when Love makes them better now," one assistant GM said. "And if you don't get Love now, he's going to be a Laker next summer."

"I definitely wouldn't want to, but might have to," one high-ranking NBA executive said. "I wouldn't want to because Wiggins has a chance to be one of the top five players in the league and you could be set for 10 years. However, I might do it because Love helps you win a title in the next couple."

"I know what Love can do. He's a proven commodity, plus his game meshes with LeBron's," one NBA scout said.

"Without a doubt. Cleveland would be a top-five team in the NBA and the top team in the East -- with Chicago and Indiana a close second and third," an NBA exec said.

"Cleveland becomes the favorite to win it all with the trio of LeBron, Kyrie and Love. With Wiggins, it's going to take time. Sure, he'll give you a terrific defender -- but now you have that with LeBron."


-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Young talent


Wiggins scored 18 points in his summer league debut, a matchup against No. 2 overall pick Jabari Parker. Wiggins was 7-of-18 from the field and just 1-of-8 from beyond the arc.

Parker was 5-of-11 from the field, 7-of-11 from the line and finished with 17 points and nine rebounds.

Here were some thoughts from a couple of NBA guys watching from the stands:


[+] Enlarge
Garrett W. Ellwood/Getty Images
Andrew Wiggins outscored Jabari Parker in their first matchup as pros.
On Wiggins:

[GimmeThat]

well, once Lebron starts taking a few 3s and making them. I wonder what Wiggins gonna be doing.

[NoGunzJustSkillz]

This.

This is the dumbest question. I can't believe I'm hearing this shit.

If you can get it done without Wiggins it's great, but if you have to trade Wiggins..you do it.

And you make them give you back Dieng so you get a center on a great contract with loads of potential.
wiggins is super cheap tho, that's why you keep him.

[Ass Dan]

Cleveland has two max players, too hard to win with three max players (you need to surround them with shit). I think Cleveland stands pat this season, dances with the guys that brung em with the hopes that one of them can be a max nikka on the cheap (Wiggy?)

[Thorpesaurous]

I'm a little torn on this. I can see it from both sides. The weird thing is that you can build this team in two totally different styles.

One is you run offensively. Love is pretty much the perfect compliment to Lebron on that side of the ball. The way Bosh learned to stretch the floor for Lebron to have space to slash too, and to exploit his many mismatches on the block, Love can do that but better. In addition, Love is at the very top of the big man list in terms of passing. And Love is a better post player than Bosh at this point, so you can flip the offense whenever to exploit mismatches. Irving makes the whole thing run smooter by letting Lebron exploit filling lanes instead of always having to be responsible for running the break, and he's an ideal fit off the ball as he's a better spot up shooter than most PGs (something I believe in spite of the dip last year). Those three could represent elite level offensive geometry. And it would allow for all sorts of positional shifting from the bench. TT and Bron at 4 and 5. Varejeo Love up front with Lebron running the point. Just a seemingly infinite amount of cool stuff that could be done.

The defensive problem is real though. With all those alphas around, Waiters becomes borderline useless. And he's got his own defensive issues. And Irving has been a seive. I don't think Love is as poor a defender as his reputation indicates, but he definitely isn't even the rim protector Bosh is. It's a little like what the Bulls did with Bill Wennington as a floor spacing big and a shooting PG surrounding Jordan as a mid post mismatch. Both of these versions are better than the ones Jordan had, but is the better going to help?, or is it overkill in that they're better in ways that can't be exploited? And the problem with those positions is that there's give an take. Usually you get a stretch big, and you lose defense at the rim, and spacing PGs usually give up ball handling and defense on the ball too. But Jordan / Lebron can cover some of that, but that's what made Pippen so unique. He could help on all fronts, and because he wasn't carrying the offensive load, it was possible. So it's a tough call.


Keeping Wiggins could build you a really good defensive team. Covering up for Irving becomes easy. And Bron would be allowed to roam more on D. They'd eat up extra rim protection and rebounding help too.

End of the day, I'd probably go Love, and see if I could find help with a defensive big like Birdman on the cheap, chase wing pieces like a Matt Barns or and turn Waiters / Thompson / Bennett into something that fits better on the wing or on the inside. If you can turn that cheap talent into better fitting cheap talent, that may be the trick.


Thinking way outside the box:

Would you consider something built around Kyrie and other assets (a couple firsts, including the Miami one, obviously most of the young talent) not Wiggins, for Brow, if you were Nawlins? Would it help if Cleveland swallowed the Jrue Holiday cost in that equation?

[Goldrush25]

Thorpesaurous

Damn good post. I like the D Wiggins brings. That erases points on the other end of the court, which is not insignificant. I can see both angles though.

[Meticode]

It's absolutely ridiculous to trade for Love right now when you have time not too. I'd totally shut down trade talks, and see how LeBron, Waiters, Irving and Wiggins play alongside each other.

[AirFederer]

Only for Gay Love :cheers:

[Meticode]

Only for Gay Love :cheers:
Why?

[GOBB]

Without hesitation I trade Wiggins for Love. Only way this bites you in the ass is if Love doesnt extend (he said he would but Carlos Boozer part II). If Bron leaves after one season. If Wiggins carries the Wolves to the NBA Finals. Otherwise for me? Give me a proven talent in Love with my 29 yr old stud in Bron.

Irving/Bron/Love trio you can easily build around that and become title contenders much faster than waiting for Wiggins to develop.

If Klay wasn't going to ask for the max? I would make a trade for him.

Irving
Klay
Bron
Love
Andy V

Why cant this team compete vs Chicago, Indiana? How about Spurs, Thunder?


But not to change the topic. Yes I would trade Wiggins for Love. No debate.

[GOBB]

Cleveland has two max players, too hard to win with three max players (you need to surround them with shit). I think Cleveland stands pat this season, dances with the guys that brung em with the hopes that one of them can be a max nikka on the cheap (Wiggy?)

Miami went to the finals 4 straight years. Won it twice. Money aint that big of an issue as you make it.

[chazzy]

If I know Love is staying long term, then yes. I have a window with Lebron right now and I can't wait for Wiggins to develop to compete for titles. Having Love gives me a much better chance to win in the next 4 years than Wiggins, and Love is young as well. Wiggins has potential to be a truly great player, but I already have a truly great player right now in Lebron who's ready to win more titles. I need to surround him with guys that can help him win now.

[DMAVS41]

If I know Love is staying long term, then yes. I have a window with Lebron right now and I can't wait for Wiggins to develop to compete for titles. Having Love gives me a much better chance to win in the next 4 years than Wiggins, and Love is young as well. Wiggins has potential to be a truly great player, but I already have a truly great player right now in Lebron who's ready to win more titles. I need to surround him with guys that can help him win now.

This.

I'd actually get pretty aggressive and dump a lot of guys.

[Carbine]

I was all in for giving up Wiggins for Love at first for all the obvious reasons - he pairs well with LeBron, he's a proven all-star who is only 25 and would transform them into a contender for the next 5 years.

But I've soften that stance. It's 50/50 for me.

I see how much Leonard has improved the Spurs with his perimeter defense. How many small things that he does that really help win ball games just on defense and the boards. I feel like Wiggins can reach that level very quickly.

Having LeBron & Wiggins on the perimeter is just dirty from a defensive outlook. If you're not going to have a rim protector, you better have perimeter defense in spades. They would have that.

Also, with Love.....if would stunt the growth of Bennett. Playing Love at center is a really, really bad proposition. I don't like the Thompson/Love pairing either.

It's not Love or bust.

[KyrieTheFuture]

No I would not. There's simply no justifiable way to think a team with no defense and no bench can win.

[GOBB]

No I would not. There's simply no justifiable way to think a team with no defense and no bench can win.

You only have two years before Bron considers taking his talents elsewhere. Better hope that team develops, overachieves. Otherwise you're back to burning a jersey again. I guess the counter to that is if Bron leaves you have Wiggins to fall back on, which wouldnt be a bad thing at all. Sooo, guess it comes down to patience. Want to win now or nah

[toneloc103]

Yeh, if GSW were willng to give up Klay and the Timberwolves were on the verge of accepting. Wiggins can't shoot. Remember how terrible the Heat offense was last year with Wade, whose shooting is about on par at the moment with Wiggins? Getting Love unlocks the offense.

A starting five of Irving, Wiggins, James, Thompson and Varejao will get ****ing congested.

EXACTLY