Has there ever been a safer MVP going into the season?

[ArbitraryWater]

:confusedshrug:

[SouBeachTalents]

Any Jordan years maybe?

[9erempiree]

It depends on who the Lakers are going to sign and what their record is. I believe Kobe can still get it.

Time will tell.

[navy]

Im trying to figure out why Durant wont win it?

[SouBeachTalents]

It depends on who the Lakers are going to sign and what their record is. I believe Kobe can still get it.

Time will tell.

:roll:

[kennethgriffin]

i agree. paul george is a lock now

indiana will win 10 more games than anyone else in the east. #1 overall record. and he'l average 26-27ppg

[NumberSix]

The media will probably be looking to give it to LeBron. If LeBron has he usual stats and the Cavs reach 50 wins, he'll probably win it.

[Legends66NBA7]

We haven't even played a game, but he's a safe bet to win MVP ? We don't even know if this is going to be the official lineup for the Cavs yet and if it is... I highly doubt their going to win that many games for James to get MVP.

Durant will probably be the favourite to win it again, if it's not James.

[Thunderfan86]

Kevin Durant

[SupermanOnSteroids]

lol at kobe.

[ArbitraryWater]

Im trying to figure out why Durant wont win it?

:oldlol:

If LeBron puts up the usual 27/7/7 while leading this Team from 33 wins to 55+ wins and the 1st seed in the East, a Long with one of the greatest stories in sports history, having no doubt gained a lot of popularity through this move, it will be his... and deservedly so.

We can make a perma ban bet on it.

[navy]

:oldlol:

If LeBron puts up the usual 27/7/7 while leading this Team from 33 wins to 55+ wins and the 1st seed in the East, a Long with one of the greatest stories in sports history, having no doubt gained a lot of popularity through this move, it will be his... and deservedly so.

We can make a perma ban bet on it.
If Durant puts up 30/8/5 and wins 60 games I think he'll repeat. :confusedshrug:

[ArbitraryWater]

If Durant puts up 30/8/5 and win 60 games I think he'll repeat. :confusedshrug:

He might... I'd still give Bron' the edge tbh purely based on narrative, but it's close... The thing I don't think will happen is 60 wins, I think Thunder/Cavs will finish with a similar record, and this will make the gap bigger

[Hands of Iron]

Lebron is putting up 30/7/9 like he did in 2010 this season, probably on even better efficiency than he did in 2010 and he had a .600+ TS% that year.

Don't underestimate the Drive…

[Legends66NBA7]

If Durant puts up 30/8/5 and wins 60 games I think he'll repeat. :confusedshrug:

And the West will be loaded again barring any injuries. That will mean more than any storyline going on.

[J Shuttlesworth]

If Durant puts up 30/8/5 and wins 60 games I think he'll repeat. :confusedshrug:
Durant will get those wins because he has a stacked roster. Durant could get it only if Westbrook gets injured again

[Hands of Iron]

He might... I'd still give Bron' the edge tbh purely based on narrative, but it's close... The thing I don't think will happen is 60 wins, I think Thunder/Cavs will finish with a similar record, and this will make the gap bigger

I'd give Lebron the edge for the simple fact that Durant nor anybody else can **** with him when he's on one. He's going to play like his ass is on fire, you know that right?

[ArbitraryWater]

I'd give Lebron the edge for the simple fact that Durant nor anybody else can **** with him when he's on one. He's going to play like his ass is on fire, you know that right?

That's how he played like over a stretch last season when he suddenly came right back into MVP talk...

Averaged like 37 on 58% with heavy Rebounding...

4 (-5?) 35+ Point games, 42 vs Mavs, 38/12/9 + GW vs Warriors, 37 with like 5 steals vs Suns, Takeover in Oklahoma (EPIC shit.. least impressive stats, still 34 pts, but deadly 1st Q, night finished after dunk on Ibaka), 61 Points... all in a 6 game span.

[Hands of Iron]

That's how he played like over a stretch last season when he suddenly came right back into MVP talk...

Averaged like 37 on 58% with heavy Rebounding...

4 (-5?) 35+ Point games, 42 vs Mavs, 38/12/9 + GW vs Warriors, 37 with like 5 steals vs Suns, Takeover in Oklahoma (EPIC shit.. least impressive stats, still 34 pts, but deadly 1st Q, night finished after dunk on Ibaka), 61 Points... all in a 6 game span.

You know. Everybody knows.

There isn't anything remotely usual about this bomb he dropped today, so I don't know why people expect him to play 'usual' in these circumstances-- and that's usually good enough to be the best player in the NBA without much argument. He's going to play extraordinary, even for his standards. Believe that shit.

[alenleomessi]

i think it will be between durant and blake

[TheMarkMadsen]

This is why the mvp means nothing these days

The finals ended a month ago, and Lebron already has monumental momentum to win MVP next year months before the season has begun, all because of the storyline..

All the MVP represents these days is who espn has a crush on for that particular year.

[russwest0]

This is why the mvp means nothing these days

The finals ended a month ago, and Lebron already has monumental momentum to win MVP next year months before the season has begun, all because of the storyline..

All the MVP represents these days is who espn has a crush on for that particular year.

This x1000

[Hands of Iron]

This is why the mvp means nothing these days

The finals ended a month ago, and Lebron already has monumental momentum to win MVP next year months before the season has begun, all because of the storyline..

All the MVP represents these days is who espn has a crush on for that particular year.

Right, but Lebron's been the best player in the NBA each time he's won it regardless. He played at a GOAT level for the most part in the 2009/2010 playoffs and won titles in 2012/2013 with an all-time great run in '12. He's deserved it each and every time. By the same token, he didn't win it in 2011 for a lot of the opposite reasons he's so favored going into next year. Durant wasn't a bad choice this season by any means, but voter fatigue probably also played a role.

He'll unequivocally be the best player in the league in 2014-15, will have a career best season and the Cavs will improve by 20+ wins. Minimum.

[TiagoSimoes]

Right, but Lebron's been the best player in the NBA each time he's won it regardless. He played at a GOAT level for the most part in the 2009/2010 playoffs and won titles in 2012/2013 with an all-time great run in '12. He's deserved it each and every time. By the same token, he didn't win it in 2011 for a lot of the opposite reasons he's so favored going into next year. Durant wasn't a bad choice this season by any means, but voter fatigue probably also played a role.

He'll unequivocally be the best player in the league in 2014-15, will have a career best season and the Cavs will improve by 20+ wins. Minimum.

LBJ wont have a career year, he will at his miami heat level(which is pretty amazing). and durant was the clear cut MVP, look at the votes, nothing to do with vote fatigue, he simply outplayed everyone in the regular

[Rubio2Gasol]

In before the Pelicans win 50 games and Davis runs away with it.

[TheMarkMadsen]

Right, but Lebron's been the best player in the NBA each time he's won it regardless. He played at a GOAT level for the most part in the 2009/2010 playoffs and won titles in 2012/2013 with an all-time great run in '12. He's deserved it each and every time. By the same token, he didn't win it in 2011 for a lot of the opposite reasons he's so favored going into next year. Durant wasn't a bad choice this season by any means, but voter fatigue probably also played a role.

He'll unequivocally be the best player in the league in 2014-15, will have a career best season and the Cavs will improve by 20+ wins. Minimum.

It's hard to take you seriously when you sit here and call Lebrons 2010 playoffs "GOAT level"

Same with 2009, he lost in the 2nd round, there is nothing "GOAT level" about that.

Jordan in the 89 & 90 playoffs put up just as good/better numbers than Lebron did in the 09 playoffs, while having a longer run in the playoffs than Lebron.

But nobody has ever called those "goat level" playoff runs because nobody celebrates stats> winning like this new crop of fans

[russwest0]

Durant wasn't a bad choice this season by any means, but voter fatigue probably also played a role.

Right, voter fatigue from the same media that tried desperately to make it a "race" after LeBron scored 60 points on the Bobcats yet still had clearly worse individual and team production than Durant and the Thunder.

Hell just look at the MVP predictions on ESPN before the year. Basically 95% of analysts expected LeBron to win it. And if you look at their first trimester predictions they all called it an injustice to give the award to anyone else...

And then Kevin Durant flat outplayed LeBron for the remainder of the season in a much tougher conference with a team that had much worse injury woes; forcing the medias hand which in turn rewarded them with one of the best sports speeches ever, from Durant.

Durant should have definitely been a unanimous MVP. Voter fatigue had nothing to do with him winning the award.

[Hands of Iron]

It's hard to take you seriously when you sit here and call Lebrons 2010 playoffs "GOAT level"

Same with 2009, he lost in the 2nd round, there is nothing "GOAT level" about that.

Jordan in the 89 & 90 playoffs put up just as good/better numbers than Lebron did in the 09 playoffs, while. Javing a longer run in the playoffs than Lebron.

But nobody has ever called those "goat level" playoff runs because nobody celebrates stats> winning like this new crop of fans

So don't take me seriously, IDGAF. I don't take this forum seriously, it's predominantly a troll-infested shithole.

The Cavaliers didn't lose in the second round in 2009 and if you believe Lebron's numbers were empty then you weren't watching the games, simple as that. He was basically a one-man army with fvcking Mo Williams as a second option, get real dude. He was leaps and bounds better than Kobe Bryant against Orlando, whose team won easily. Lebron isn't even my dude, and read around if you think all of my arguments are number based.

http://checkhookboxing.com/showthread.php?46683-Cavs-sign-Lebron-to-contract&p=1354221&viewfull=1#post1354221

Strictly numbers talk. :rolleyes:

Jordan's '88-'90 years are celebrated by anyone with any sense. Why would you punish a guy playing out of his mind because his team isn't up to par?

[Hands of Iron]

Right, voter fatigue from the same media that tried desperately to make it a "race" after LeBron scored 60 points on the Bobcats yet still had clearly worse individual and team production than Durant and the Thunder.

Hell just look at the MVP predictions on ESPN before the year. Basically 95% of analysts expected LeBron to win it. And if you look at their first trimester predictions they all called it an injustice to give the award to anyone else...

And then Kevin Durant flat outplayed LeBron for the remainder of the season in a much tougher conference with a team that had much worse injury woes; forcing the medias hand which in turn rewarded them with one of the best sports speeches ever, from Durant.

Durant should have definitely been a unanimous MVP. Voter fatigue had nothing to do with him winning the award.

Not a bad choice at all.

So why do you agree "X 1000" that the MVP means nothing these days considering the right guy just got it over the ESPN darling this past season? Most people who believe the MVP means nothing are usually Kobe stans to be quite honest with you. It's even a tough bullet to bite for me considering Olajuwon and Shaq are both amongst my top five favorite players of all-time and only have one a piece while... Well, you know the example. It's definitely got it's flaws, it can definitely be controversial, but to say it means nothing is nonsense.

6 - Jabbar
5 - Jordan, Russell
4 - Chamberlain
3 - Bird, Magic, Moses

Clearly amongst the greatest and most impactful players in league history. All of the sudden it doesn't count because people have some childish dislike over Lebron? That's weak sauce bro. He's deserved all four of them, and will deserve the ones coming.

[PyrrhusX]

Westbrook, George or Lebron will win it this year.

[chazzy]

That's how he played like over a stretch last season when he suddenly came right back into MVP talk...

Averaged like 37 on 58% with heavy Rebounding...

4 (-5?) 35+ Point games, 42 vs Mavs, 38/12/9 + GW vs Warriors, 37 with like 5 steals vs Suns, Takeover in Oklahoma (EPIC shit.. least impressive stats, still 34 pts, but deadly 1st Q, night finished after dunk on Ibaka), 61 Points... all in a 6 game span.
What about Durant's Jan?

[ArbitraryWater]

MarkMadsen's Posts are pretty bad, as always... No, he didn't lose in the 2nd round in 2009... You should check out the heavy lifting Bron' did both Playoff runs, absolutely incredible... The guy did everything for the Team, at a level, few if any can replicate all time.

And again, you talking about MVP's and how they don't matter, it's projected for him to win because we can expect him turning that franchise 20+ wins around...

Again, tell me a year he didn't deserve it... You will only end up looking foolish, as he ran away with it each time, and had the best case in 2011.... You think Rose deserved it? THEN it will be hard to take YOU serious.

[ArbitraryWater]

What about Durant's Jan?

What about it? Just as good... He got the MVP and I have no problem with it.

[knicksman]

All around players are the most overrated. If they are a position they are the tweeners. If its a dog breed, they are mixed and not pure. And we all knew that the pures are more expensive. Just like the pure scorers(kobe, jordan, miller) or pure pgs(magic, isiah, cp3) are more impactful than the mix or all around players(oscar, robertson, bran, bird, westbrook, rose). Theres a reason why magic and jordan are the GOATS yet idiots still keep overrating the brans.

[Marlo_Stanfield]

If Durant puts up 30/8/5 and wins 60 games I think he'll repeat. :confusedshrug:
what a fegget ass Durant lover this boy is:lol :lol

[navy]

All around players are the most overrated. If they are a position they are the tweeners. If its a dog breed, they are mixed and not pure. And we all knew that the pures are more expensive. Just like the pure scorers(kobe, jordan, miller) or pure pgs(magic, isiah, cp3) are more impactful than the mix or all around players(oscar, robertson, bran, bird, westbrook, rose). Theres a reason why magic and jordan are the GOATS yet idiots still keep overrating the brans.
:biggums:

[Magic 32]

Durant will get those wins because he has a stacked roster. Durant could get it only if Westbrook gets injured again

oh we're back to that again.

[navy]

what a fegget ass Durant lover this boy is:lol :lol
Maybe, I'm just not a delusional retard like you. Since when was I a Durant lover. :oldlol:

[Marlo_Stanfield]

Maybe, I'm just not a delusional retard like you. Since when was I a Durant lover. :oldlol:
cuz you think hes actually better right now than LeBron when the playoffs proved once again he isnt even remotely anywhere near close:roll: :roll:

[knicksman]

cuz you think hes actually better right now than LeBron when the playoffs proved once again he isnt even remotely anywhere near close:roll: :roll:

LOL didnt durant destroyed spurs in 2012 meanwhile bran can only score during 1st quarters or when the team is down 20+. If that was close, im sure bran would be nowhere to be found.

[Marlo_Stanfield]

LOL didnt durant destroyed spurs in 2012 meanwhile bran can only score during 1st quarters or when the team is down 20+. If that was close, im sure bran would be nowhere to be found.
29 PPG( would be higher without the Ac accident) on 58% and 60% from three.
fkk outta this thread fekkat

[Hands of Iron]

MarkMadsen's Posts are pretty bad, as always... No, he didn't lose in the 2nd round in 2009... You should check out the heavy lifting Bron' did both Playoff runs, absolutely incredible... The guy did everything for the Team, at a level, few if any can replicate all time.

And again, you talking about MVP's and how they don't matter, it's projected for him to win because we can expect him turning that franchise 20+ wins around...

Again, tell me a year he didn't deserve it... You will only end up looking foolish, as he ran away with it each time, and had the best case in 2011.... You think Rose deserved it? THEN it will be hard to take YOU serious.

That was the original question I posed that went unanswered.

It's a regular season award, and even taking into account the playoffs the years he won it - just for the hell of it - there still isn't a season he didn't deserve it. "All stats" yet this fool is posting lines (without efficiency rates of course) of what Kobe did in the 2001 Playoffs and 2009 Finals in other threads :lol

"Bran never did 32/5/7 in the Finals like Kobe in '09"

LeBron put 39/8/8 on that same fvcking team in the previous round.

[navy]

cuz you think hes actually better right now than LeBron when the playoffs proved once again he isnt even remotely anywhere near close:roll: :roll:
I never said Durant was better than Lebron. Stop being an idiot.

[GimmeThat]

without any injury, I sure hope he wins it.

or it would be really embarrassing.


not that I even think winning the MVP is more difficult than winning a championship for him.

too bad he's a FMVP type player, and not just a 2nd option on a championship team at this stage of his career though.

[ArbitraryWater]

That was the original question I posed that went unanswered.

It's a regular season award, and even taking into account the playoffs the years he won it - just for the hell of it - there still isn't a season he didn't deserve it. "All stats" yet this fool is posting lines (without efficiency rates of course) of what Kobe did in the 2001 Playoffs and 2009 Finals in other threads :lol

"Bran never did 32/5/7 in the Finals like Kobe in '09"

LeBron put 39/8/8 on that same fvcking team in the previous round.

Yea, and just for fun...

Playoff series against common opponents:

vs 2008 Celtics
LeBron James: 26.7ppg 6.4reb 7.6ast 35.5%fg
Kobe Bryant: 25.7ppg 4.7reb 5.0ast 41.1%fg

vs 2009 Magic
LeBron James: 38.5ppg 8.3reb 8.0ast 75 48.7%fg
Kobe Bryant: 32.4ppg 5.6reb 7.4ast 58 42.9%fg

vs 2010 Celtics
LeBron James: 26.8ppg 9.3reb 7.2ast 44.7%fg
Kobe Bryant: 28.6ppg 8.0reb 3.9ast 40.5%fg
(worst shooting % for a Finals MVP)
Kobe Bryant holds the worst shooting performance in NBA Finals history for a Finals MVP (6-24 shooting, 18 missed shots, game 7).

vs 2011 Mavericks
LeBron James: 17.8ppg 7.1reb 6.8ast 47.7%fg 32.1%3pt
Kobe Bryant: 23.3ppg 3.0reb 2.5ast 45.8%fg 22.7%3pt

vs 2012 Thunder
LeBron James: 28.6ppg 10.2reb 7.4ast 47.2%fg 18.8%3pt
Kobe Bryant: 31.2ppg 5.2reb 3.4ast 42.6%fg 11.1%3pt

I know you're not a fan of stats, but when the same things point to the same conclusion every time, it's really obvious... Besides '08, LeBron's got him every other series.

[AintNoSunshine]

It depends on who the Lakers are going to sign and what their record is. I believe Kobe can still get it.

Time will tell.


If Lakers sign someone to put them in the picture again, Kobe isn't likely to be the MVP on his own team.

If Lakers still remain Kobe's team however, you can look forward to lottery again:roll:

[poido123]

Yea, and just for fun...

Playoff series against common opponents:

vs 2008 Celtics
LeBron James: 26.7ppg 6.4reb 7.6ast 35.5%fg
Kobe Bryant: 25.7ppg 4.7reb 5.0ast 41.1%fg

vs 2009 Magic
LeBron James: 38.5ppg 8.3reb 8.0ast 75 48.7%fg
Kobe Bryant: 32.4ppg 5.6reb 7.4ast 58 42.9%fg

vs 2010 Celtics
LeBron James: 26.8ppg 9.3reb 7.2ast 44.7%fg
Kobe Bryant: 28.6ppg 8.0reb 3.9ast 40.5%fg
(worst shooting % for a Finals MVP)
Kobe Bryant holds the worst shooting performance in NBA Finals history for a Finals MVP (6-24 shooting, 18 missed shots, game 7).

vs 2011 Mavericks
LeBron James: 17.8ppg 7.1reb 6.8ast 47.7%fg 32.1%3pt
Kobe Bryant: 23.3ppg 3.0reb 2.5ast 45.8%fg 22.7%3pt

vs 2012 Thunder
LeBron James: 28.6ppg 10.2reb 7.4ast 47.2%fg 18.8%3pt
Kobe Bryant: 31.2ppg 5.2reb 3.4ast 42.6%fg 11.1%3pt

I know you're not a fan of stats, but when the same things point to the same conclusion every time, it's really obvious... Besides '08, LeBron's got him every other series.


You Stan lebron on way too hard dude.

Maybe you should concentrate on not letting your alts slip up :applause:

[ArbitraryWater]

You Stan lebron on way too hard dude.

Maybe you should concentrate on not letting your alts slip up :applause:

Oh no, I posted their statistics against the same opponents in the playoffs... How could I

[Pointguard]

We haven't even played a game, but he's a safe bet to win MVP ? We don't even know if this is going to be the official lineup for the Cavs yet and if it is... I highly doubt their going to win that many games for James to get MVP.

Durant will probably be the favourite to win it again, if it's not James.
They are going to win 20 more games, they are getting more than 50 wins. That's enough. Likely third most wins in the East. That's enough.

[Magic 32]

Oh no, I posted their statistics against the same opponents in the playoffs... How could I

old vs prime.

Except for 2008. And there Kobe had better numbers.

lol

Lets compare Lebron and Kobe's numbers from age 30 to 35. Fair?

[Pointguard]

Lebron stayed giving his friend Wade respect, and toned his game down the entire four years. This will be the first time we will see him in his prime going off without looking over his shoulder. His team is young and full of energy now. Guys will be looking to prove themselves rather than protecting their crown. Its a different energy.

Lebron seemed uncomfortable since the "decision." He's going to be clear headed, seeking to prove himself. I think this year could be his best. He's going to get back to just enjoying the game.

[STATUTORY]

Yea, and just for fun...

Playoff series against common opponents:

vs 2008 Celtics
LeBron James: 26.7ppg 6.4reb 7.6ast 35.5%fg
Kobe Bryant: 25.7ppg 4.7reb 5.0ast 41.1%fg

vs 2009 Magic
LeBron James: 38.5ppg 8.3reb 8.0ast 75 48.7%fg
Kobe Bryant: 32.4ppg 5.6reb 7.4ast 58 42.9%fg

vs 2010 Celtics
LeBron James: 26.8ppg 9.3reb 7.2ast 44.7%fg
Kobe Bryant: 28.6ppg 8.0reb 3.9ast 40.5%fg
(worst shooting % for a Finals MVP)
Kobe Bryant holds the worst shooting performance in NBA Finals history for a Finals MVP (6-24 shooting, 18 missed shots, game 7).

vs 2011 Mavericks
LeBron James: 17.8ppg 7.1reb 6.8ast 47.7%fg 32.1%3pt
Kobe Bryant: 23.3ppg 3.0reb 2.5ast 45.8%fg 22.7%3pt

vs 2012 Thunder
LeBron James: 28.6ppg 10.2reb 7.4ast 47.2%fg 18.8%3pt
Kobe Bryant: 31.2ppg 5.2reb 3.4ast 42.6%fg 11.1%3pt

I know you're not a fan of stats, but when the same things point to the same conclusion every time, it's really obvious... Besides '08, LeBron's got him every other series.

:biggums: so you only look at fg%?

classic bran clown

[Magic 32]

:biggums: so you only look at fg%?

classic bran clown

vs 2008 Celtics
LeBron James: 26.7ppg 6.4reb 7.6ast 35.5%fg
Kobe Bryant: 25.7ppg 4.7reb 5.0ast 41.1%fg

Apparently not :oldlol:

[Ne 1]

So don't take me seriously, IDGAF. I don't take this forum seriously, it's predominantly a troll-infested shithole.

The Cavaliers didn't lose in the second round in 2009 and if you believe Lebron's numbers were empty then you weren't watching the games, simple as that. He was basically a one-man army with fvcking Mo Williams as a second option, get real dude. He was leaps and bounds better than Kobe Bryant against Orlando, whose team won easily. Lebron isn't even my dude, and read around if you think all of my arguments are number based.

http://checkhookboxing.com/showthread.php?46683-Cavs-sign-Lebron-to-contract&p=1354221&viewfull=1#post1354221

Strictly numbers talk. :rolleyes:

Jordan's '88-'90 years are celebrated by anyone with any sense. Why would you punish a guy playing out of his mind because his team isn't up to par?
It's about how he got those numbers in '09 vs Orlando. He dominated the ball in a way we hadn't seen since prime Iverson.

Also, I do think there were actually some areas where LeBron could have stepped up in 2009, in particular his defense. His defense was pretty poor in the vs Orlando and practically exposed. I remember people were talking about how he was a DPOY candidate that year and he showed how he wasn't even close in that ECF. They assigned him to Rafer Alston and made him sag off of him and the thing is LeBron didn't make much of an impact on help defense. He didn't really bother Dwight though it was hard to do so because of how deep he was setting up but I don't remember him pressuring the ball to take time off the clock. Kobe's help defense on Dwight in the Finals was a good bit better and often stripped him or forced a deflection.

He also wasn't that good in some of the fourth quarters like missing 5 free throws in game 3 and a whole bunch of turnovers in game 4 late in the game. Game 6 was also pretty weak, 2 points in the fourth.

It is true he didn't get much help vs Orlando but still I don't think that his performance was as astonishing as some people consider it.

[ArbitraryWater]

It's about how he got those numbers in '09 vs Orlando. He dominated the ball in a way we hadn't seen since prime Iverson.

Also, I do think there were actually some areas where LeBron could have stepped up in 2009, in particular his defense. His defense was pretty poor in the vs Orlando and practically exposed. I remember people were talking about how he was a DPOY candidate that year and he showed how he wasn't even close in that ECF. They assigned him to Rafer Alston and made him sag off of him and the thing is LeBron didn't make much of an impact on help defense. He didn't really bother Dwight though it was hard to do so because of how deep he was setting up but I don't remember him pressuring the ball to take time off the clock. Kobe's help defense on Dwight in the Finals was a good bit better and often stripped him or forced a deflection.

He also wasn't that good in some of the fourth quarters like missing 5 free throws in game 3 and a whole bunch of turnovers in game 4 late in the game. Game 6 was also pretty weak, 2 points in the fourth.

It is true he didn't get much help vs Orlando but still I don't think that his performance was as astonishing as some people consider it.

:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

Game 6 was over by halftime, and he was great in the 4th Q's through all 5 games you retarded biased dumbass.

Of course you don't consider it great, if it was Kobe however = GOAT performance...

despicable scum.

49/6/8/2/3 on 67%
35/4/5 on 52% + GW 3
41/7/9 on 39%
45/12/7 on 45%
37/14/12 on 46%

(41/9/8 on 50% average)

Your boy doesn't have one single better series'...

weak sauce, aimiright?

[Hands of Iron]

Lebron stayed giving his friend Wade respect, and toned his game down the entire four years. This will be the first time we will see him in his prime going off without looking over his shoulder. His team is young and full of energy now. Guys will be looking to prove themselves rather than protecting their crown. Its a different energy.

Lebron seemed uncomfortable since the "decision." He's going to be clear headed, seeking to prove himself. I think this year could be his best. He's going to get back to just enjoying the game

Tremendously on point IMO, I agree wholeheartedly. The young talent he's joining will not be ready for the lights the first year out of the gate and he'll be doing a hefty amount of lifting to get things rolling. I'd say he entered his prime his last two years in Cleveland though. 33/9/7 on 50+% in the playoffs over those two years is pretty scary stuff if that isn't prime. And both his shot and post game are improved in addition to the experience he's gained since.


's about how he got those numbers in '09 vs Orlando. He dominated the ball in a way we hadn't seen since prime Iverson.

Also, I do think there were actually some areas where LeBron could have stepped up in 2009, in particular his defense. His defense was pretty poor in the vs Orlando and practically exposed. I remember people were talking about how he was a DPOY candidate that year and he showed how he wasn't even close in that ECF. They assigned him to Rafer Alston and made him sag off of him and the thing is LeBron didn't make much of an impact on help defense. He didn't really bother Dwight though it was hard to do so because of how deep he was setting up but I don't remember him pressuring the ball to take time off the clock. Kobe's help defense on Dwight in the Finals was a good bit better and often stripped him or forced a deflection.

He also wasn't that good in some of the fourth quarters like missing 5 free throws in game 3 and a whole bunch of turnovers in game 4 late in the game. Game 6 was also pretty weak, 2 points in the fourth.

It is true he didn't get much help vs Orlando but still I don't think that his performance was as astonishing as some people consider it

Those aren't wholly inaccurate criticisms, but I'd honestly have to file it under nitpicking in the grand scheme of things given everything he was doing. It reminds me a little bit of the guy who was trying to tell me Peak Shaq really wasn't all that because of pick-and-roll defense. The guy was playing his balls off trying to will an incredibly mediocre team into the Finals. It wasn't just a lack of help, but guys not even performing to their levels in the regular season.

Almost all great players are ball dominant and Lebron is really no more so than Bryant himself despite the fact that he's a far better playmaker. It's really sort of a new age criticism and critique to explain someone's dominance: "Oh, that's just because he's so ball dominant". The reality is, nobody else in the league has Lebron's particular game and range of abilities regardless. They couldn't mimick him no matter how many possessions they're involved in. The guy is one of the most productive players in the history of the NBA, both regular season and playoffs. I mean, bottom line man. Not everybody can be as skilled as Larry Bird and a consistent triple double threat without hardly even needing to touch the rock, you know

[ArbitraryWater]

Tremendously on point IMO, I agree wholeheartedly. The young talent he's joining will not be ready for the lights the first year out of the gate and he'll be doing a hefty amount of lifting to get things rolling. I'd say he entered his prime his last two years in Cleveland though. 33/9/7 on 50+% in the playoffs over those two years is pretty scary stuff if that isn't prime. And both his shot and post game are improved in addition to the experience he's gained since.



Those aren't wholly inaccurate criticisms, but I'd honestly have to file it under nitpicking in the grand scheme of things given everything he was doing. It reminds me a little bit of the guy who was trying to tell me Peak Shaq really wasn't all that because of pick-and-roll defense. The guy was playing his balls off trying to will an incredibly mediocre team into the Finals. It wasn't just a lack of help, but guys not even performing to their levels in the regular season.

Almost all great players are ball dominant and Lebron is really no more so than Bryant himself despite the fact that he's a far better playmaker. It's really sort of a new age criticism and critique to explain someone's dominance: "Oh, that's just because he's so ball dominant". The reality is, nobody else in the league has Lebron's particular game and range of abilities regardless. They couldn't mimick him no matter how many possessions they're involved in. The guy is one of the most productive players in the history of the NBA, both regular season and playoffs. I mean, bottom line man. Not everybody can be as skilled as Larry Bird and a consistent triple double threat without hardly even needing to touch the rock, you know

I hate to quote you all the time and approve, but you put it perfectly...

In short, it's nitpicking.. Laid out example with Shaq.

And this does seem to be the case of late... Great production? "Oh that's only because he's so ball dominant".. smh

[Hands of Iron]

I hate to quote you all the time and approve, but you put it perfectly...

In short, it's nitpicking.. Laid out example with Shaq.

And this does seem to be the case of late... Great production? "Oh that's only because he's so ball dominant".. smh

Michael Jordan has the highest career usage rate in NBA history for as far back as it can be calculated. Kobe boasts the single-season record (the year he averaged 35 ppg). Does Lebron even have a Top 25 season where that's concerned? :oldlol: The ball is going to end up in the hands of a team's best player more often than not, especially if the supporting cast is total shit. It isn't automatically a negative thing if they're efficient at their job.

This year he isn't aggressive enough, not taking enough shots. That's something I'm on record agreeing with, he should've been putting up at least 25 a game as well as they were going down. So during a year when he puts the Cleveland Cavaliers on his back - and trust, this is what is coming again - by all means, one of the greatest postseasons ever for a perimeter player, it's all boiled down to "the most ball dominance we've seen since Iverson!!" Because that dude was capable of 35/9/7 on 50+% FG/60+% TS. Whatever helps people rationalize it.