Why are we Americans so focused on things like honor, loyalty, respect etc in Sports?

[ALBballer]

In Europe, big name soccer players move around all the time. Luis Suarez was just sold to Barcelona, Ronaldo was sold to Real Madrid, Gareth Bale was sold to Real Madrid and so forth. It happens all the time and people accept it as a business. Wayne Rooney grew up watching Everton and once said he wanted to be an Everton for life but left Everton for Man U. In addition, there is no salary cap in European Soccer and it's treated as a business where the bigger markets tend to dominate. It's interesting how we in the free-market loving America we have salary caps which is basically anti free-market.

But in America look down upon players moving from one team to another for being "disloyal." We like to see underdogs suceed. We like to see players finish their careers on one team.

Point is, if Lebron was in Europe and a group of players wanted to form a big 3 it wouldn't that big of a controversy. People wouldn't call Lebron a sellout to his club.

So why the big difference? are we enamored with hollywood and feel good stories? the protestant work ethic and the belief of working your way to the top? the american ideas of fair play?

It's an interesting difference.

[moe94]

The fans are insane. The players are treated like chess pieces and yet the fans get angry at them whenever they decide to sign anywhere else and they have some semblance of control. It's odd.

[navy]

The fans are insane. The players are treated like chess pieces and yet the fans get angry at them whenever they decide to sign anywhere else and they have some semblance of control. It's odd.
This. :oldlol:

[NumberSix]

Americans value brands more than people.

[qrich]

The biggest difference is, American sport leagues tend to be the elite of the elite (NBA, MLB, NFL, and I'm guessing the NHL tops any other league as well, not a big hockey fan) and the players will be guaranteed to compete against the team they left, while, in association football, that isn't necessarily true. They can face their old team in CL play, World Club Cup or even meaningless friendlies, but that isn't guaranteed, and in some situations, not even likely.

If all the transfers occurred only in the EPL, RPL, Bundesliga, Serie A, etc., loyalty would be a bigger issue in association football.

Edit: Too add on, would ManU fans be just as fine, if say, Rooney was sold to Arsenal, Liverpool or even a shittier EPL side such as West Brom, as opposed to being sent to, say, Bayern Laverkussen? Hypothetical situation of course.

[OnFire]

Some fans are really emo and have terrible lives and nothing means more to them in those sad lives than their favorite players.

That should fully cover it.

[Foster5k]

Americans are different. Simple as that.

They live in a different culture and their psychology has evolved over time as a by-product of all the social changes throughout American history.

Americans see things differently than most of the world. Their views on such ideas as loyalty, etc are skewed to their on perspectives. Is it right or wrong? All a matter opinion. Logically what is loyalty and what is right or wrong? Everything is subjective.

[tmacattack33]

It's probably the media and the way sh*t gets reported here.

I doubt Europe has something as TMZ-esque as ESPN.

[zoom17]

Great point OP:applause:

[LA Lakers]

Home is where the heart is. His hearts' in Akron, Ohio. From the projects to South Beach. Not many in Europe have had that journey. I think it's a good sports story. Im happy for the Cavs fans and Lebron. They stick with their teams. Miami never deserved him and that Heatles bs was a punk move for Cleveland and for the league and free agency. Sue me, I'm American. I value those things in general. But honestly I don't feel majority of the people in this country do. Empty phrases. I think it was more the arrogant way of the decision and the actuality of three superstar, franchise players all joining forces in their primes instead of trying to win captaining their own teams. It didnt look good for a sport claiming to look towards parity and league competition.

[ALBballer]

The biggest difference is, American sport leagues tend to be the elite of the elite (NBA, MLB, NFL, and I'm guessing the NHL tops any other league as well, not a big hockey fan) and the players will be guaranteed to compete against the team they left, while, in association football, that isn't necessarily true. They can face their old team in CL play, World Club Cup or even meaningless friendlies, but that isn't guaranteed, and in some situations, not even likely.

If all the transfers occurred only in the EPL, RPL, Bundesliga, Serie A, etc., loyalty would be a bigger issue in association football.

Edit: Too add on, would ManU fans be just as fine, if say, Rooney was sold to Arsenal, Liverpool or even a shittier EPL side such as West Brom, as opposed to being sent to, say, Bayern Laverkussen? Hypothetical situation of course.

Luis Suarez has wanted to be transferred since last season. This is a guy that has been supported by his fanbase even during his suspensions. He cites wanting to go to barcelona which is a dream of his and his wife would enjoy it more as well.

And I know Luis Suarez isn't comparable to Lebron James' situation, but I bet there isn't much of a controversy of him wanting to leave. Fans accept it for what it is.

Gotze and Lewandowski both left their small market team for the German powerhouse and there is not much of a controversy over "betrayal" or other things commonly cited in American media. Gotze has been playing for Borussia at their youth academy since the age of 8.

Sure the hooligans get pissed but your average fan is another story. People in America generally dislike Lebron James. Now he is loved by all. And this includes myself.

[deja vu]

There's no such thing as loyalty in sports. It's not like a team is a family who raised you up from infancy. They just draft you, pay you for your work and then could just as easily flog you to another team.

[Godzuki]

honestly the way Barcelona stacks is fukking lame

Same with the way the Yankee's stack

nobody likes that anti competitive bullshit where stars need to collude and form super teams just to run over the league.

its more a recent thing in the NBA. pre 2000's they never pulled this. you'd follow players from rookies to stars on a single team generally developing what they had.

If MJ decided to team with Barkley, Magic, and Bird it'd be dumb and anti competitive. him only having Pippen and Kukoc, and most teams only having 2-3 stars kept things balanced.

and every so often you'd get a stacked team like the old Lakers or Celtics but thats because they drafted well.

[qrich]

Luis Suarez has wanted to be transferred since last season. This is a guy that has been supported by his fanbase even during his suspensions. He cites wanting to go to barcelona which is a dream of his and his wife would enjoy it more as well.

And I know Luis Suarez isn't comparable to Lebron James' situation, but I bet there isn't much of a controversy of him wanting to leave. Fans accept it for what it is.

Gotze and Lewandowski both left their small market team for the German powerhouse and there is not much of a controversy over "betrayal" or other things commonly cited in American media. Gotze has been playing for Borussia at their youth academy since the age of 8.

Sure the hooligans get pissed but your average fan is another story. People in America generally dislike Lebron James. Now he is loved by all. And this includes myself.

Why would there be contrevesy? Suarez made it clear from the start, and is transferring to a brand new league, in a different country with a good chance they may never face him again.

I hopped on the BvB casual wagon since Mkhi joined, and from what I saw, fans weren't happy at all about Gotze nor Lewa, but both of those men have made it clear for a period of time about their intentions of leaving and didn't do it last second like LeBron did with the decision, or Brand and Boozer before that, etc.

Not saying I agree with it, but that seems to be the general reasoning.

[JellyBean]

It's how we roll, baby. It's in our DNA.

[Akrazotile]

Well, I think American basketball and International football are the toughest to compare because they're at the opposite ends of the spectrum.

Of all the American sports, basketball is the one in which people most identify a single player with his team. Other sports are driven by the jersey whereas bball is driven by the face. So when a guy leaves his team, it feels more personal. It feels like a person is leaving, not just a random body in a jersey. This attachment exists to a degree in all sports, but in basketball it's by far the most pronounced. Because it revolves so heavily around personalities, NBA basketball is basically half sport/half soap opera. It develops its own storylines and characters, and the drama of someone leaving feeds into that and brings the concept of betrayal "to life" so to speak.

Moreover, people who follow international football are used to guys coming from all areas of the globe to play there for a few years and move on. People don't relate to foreigners as much as they do to fellow countrymen, so the business-like nature of the arrangement is more pronounced. When a guy from America gets drafted to a particular team, people figure he's gonna make his home there and put down roots etc. Even though that's not necessarily the case and he has no obligation to do so, it feels more like it "should" be the case than when you have a team full of guys from all over the globe.


But ultimately, deep down I think very few people are legitimately offended by things like free agency and loyalty etc. In most cases, it's just an excuse to bag on a guy.

[Riley Martin]

Soccer's more of a team sport, collective effort.

It's really just in the NBA you see this trend. Not really in the NFL, except for maybe quarterbacks.

[Akrazotile]

In Europe, big name soccer players move around all the time. Luis Suarez was just sold to Barcelona, Ronaldo was sold to Real Madrid, Gareth Bale was sold to Real Madrid and so forth. It happens all the time and people accept it as a business. Wayne Rooney grew up watching Everton and once said he wanted to be an Everton for life but left Everton for Man U. In addition, there is no salary cap in European Soccer and it's treated as a business where the bigger markets tend to dominate. It's interesting how we in the free-market loving America we have salary caps which is basically anti free-market.

But in America look down upon players moving from one team to another for being "disloyal." We like to see underdogs suceed. We like to see players finish their careers on one team.

Point is, if Lebron was in Europe and a group of players wanted to form a big 3 it wouldn't that big of a controversy. People wouldn't call Lebron a sellout to his club.

So why the big difference? are we enamored with hollywood and feel good stories? the protestant work ethic and the belief of working your way to the top? the american ideas of fair play?

It's an interesting difference.


Sports in America have salary caps because of unions. Even though it's the owners that push for the caps, they do so because of all the other concessions they have to make to the players union. It's basically a way of evening out all the other things the union gets. If the owners got to draw up the entire CBA, there'd be no cap.

[iamgine]

In Europe, big name soccer players move around all the time. Luis Suarez was just sold to Barcelona, Ronaldo was sold to Real Madrid, Gareth Bale was sold to Real Madrid and so forth. It happens all the time and people accept it as a business. Wayne Rooney grew up watching Everton and once said he wanted to be an Everton for life but left Everton for Man U. In addition, there is no salary cap in European Soccer and it's treated as a business where the bigger markets tend to dominate. It's interesting how we in the free-market loving America we have salary caps which is basically anti free-market.

But in America look down upon players moving from one team to another for being "disloyal." We like to see underdogs suceed. We like to see players finish their careers on one team.

Point is, if Lebron was in Europe and a group of players wanted to form a big 3 it wouldn't that big of a controversy. People wouldn't call Lebron a sellout to his club.

So why the big difference? are we enamored with hollywood and feel good stories? the protestant work ethic and the belief of working your way to the top? the american ideas of fair play?

It's an interesting difference.
First off, Lebron is more like Messi. If Messi decides to moves to Real or any other contender within Spain for less money, then that would be equal to the Lebron situation.

Secondly, basketball is 5 guys. Soccer is 11 guys.

Forming a big 3 is like forming a big 6 in soccer. That would be a huge controversy, for 6 superstars from the same league to move to the same team at the same time.

[Rubio2Gasol]

I can't disagree more.

Have you been to Spain? Have you been to Italy? Loyalty and tradition is cherished here, more than any other aspect of the game. Players are allowed to transfer because they're all Lebron esque prima donnas with no concept of.what it means to give your soul.to a club. Sport itself is deteriorating because of people like this.

The idea Van Persia can leave Arsenal after what Wenger did fornhim , the idea Ronaldo would leave united. Its disgraceful.

[icemanfan]

because every generation in America before yours Honor and Loyalty where extremely important. Then came your generation.

[Torious]

Your real obsession is with "storyline" like every sports is some scripted wrestling circus or hollywoood drama.

Dont really see the honor, respect and loyalty thing. Certainly not from fans who'll burn jerseys at the first sign of a player execising his right to choose his employer.

Oh and legacy. :facepalm at the obsession with legacy.

[outbreak]

It's the media and the fact that a large number of americans feel like people (sports stars included) owe them something. Is football as player driven when it comes to transfers? I thought the clubs did most of the marketing and selling rather than the players forcing moves as happens in the nba now days.

[BasedTom]

IMO, what G

[Ratnik]

You can find loyalty in the smaller football leagues in Europe. In the big leagues is all about the money, players like Gerrard, Totti and De Rossi are a dying breed. Real football are disgusted that our favourite game has becoe a business. Against Mod

[Godzuki]

because every generation in America before yours Honor and Loyalty where extremely important. Then came your generation.


:applause:

[Godzuki]

Your real obsession is with "storyline" like every sports is some scripted wrestling circus or hollywoood drama.

Dont really see the honor, respect and loyalty thing. Certainly not from fans who'll burn jerseys at the first sign of a player execising his right to choose his employer.

Oh and legacy. :facepalm at the obsession with legacy.

what a idiot :facepalm

i can tell you're a lebron stan...sorry mf'er

[GimmeThat]

because some people make sports their sanctuary, their getaway home.


"Oscar Wilde

[Rose'sACL]

because every generation in America before yours Honor and Loyalty where extremely important. Then came your generation.
The free thinking one. Successful people today think a lot more freely than successful people in the past. My dad is slowly learning about this and might give up being a Knicks fan just because of this "loyalty" thing marketing people have pushed so idiots keep being loyal to a privately owned team in a privately owned league just because they slapped the name of the city/state in the team name to make more money.
Being loyal only applies to players and fans, not the owners.

[GimmeThat]

The free thinking one. Successful people today think a lot more freely than successful people in the past. My dad is slowly learning about this and might give up being a Knicks fan just because of this "loyalty" thing marketing people have pushed so idiots keep being loyal to a privately owned team in a privately owned league just because they slapped the name of the city/state in the team name to make more money.
Being loyal only applies to players and fans, not the owners.

just don't tell me it took Lebron going back to the Cavs for your dad to understand that.

doesn't sound like someone who could communicate with multiple generations.


"successful people"


you can call me a disrespectful ignorant POS for all you want
truth is truth

[Trentknicks]

Americans value brands more than people.
Which is why it's purely why it's a superstar league, not a team based one :facepalm

[Rose'sACL]

Which is why it's purely why it's a superstar league, not a team based one :facepalm
It is a superstar league because after Jordan made so much money off the court and for the bulls, superstars know their value.
It is still looked down upon to be a player fan instead of being a team fan even if the owner is an idiot who never puts a good team on the court. You have so many Jordan, Kobe, lebron fans who pretend to be bulls, Lakers, cavs fans just so they don't get called out.

[Trentknicks]

It is a superstar league because after Jordan made so much money off the court and for the bulls, superstars know their value.
It is still looked down upon to be a player fan instead of being a team fan even if the owner is an idiot who never puts a good team on the court. You have so many Jordan, Kobe, lebron fans who pretend to be bulls, Lakers, cavs fans just so they don't get called out.
That wasn't the context I meant it in, I mean look at the advertising. It's no longer "The Rockets VS The Clippers" it's more like "Blake Griffin and CP3 take on Harden and Dwight".

But the main reason is that most of the American media and fans, for some reason, have such a wild obsession with forcing a storyline or angle on everything instead of just letting it play out like it should. No other nation does that with their sport, period.

[9512]

Sports in America is a metaphor for war. Not saying other countries do not treat sports the same but America takes it seriously like warfare/

So that's why when ray Allen left the celts to sign with the heat, he is a Benedict Arnold.

[GimmeThat]

That wasn't the context I meant it in, I mean look at the advertising. It's no longer "The Rockets VS The Clippers" it's more like "Blake Griffin and CP3 take on Harden and Dwight".

But the main reason is that most of the American media and fans, for some reason, have such a wild obsession with forcing a storyline or angle on everything instead of just letting it play out like it should. No other nation does that with their sport, period.


they also pride themselves in low unemployment rate. while other countries, such as France, would be labled as "lazy" in the American eyes with how many people aren't working and their work hours.

they appreciate capitalism, but every individual also look at different aspects in life as a way to get away from the cut-throat nature of it all.

again, Christianity and its value of giving is also another big fundamental parts to it all.

mixing them together, is a not for profit business.

[GimmeThat]

It is a superstar league because after Jordan made so much money off the court and for the bulls, superstars know their value.
It is still looked down upon to be a player fan instead of being a team fan even if the owner is an idiot who never puts a good team on the court. You have so many Jordan, Kobe, lebron fans who pretend to be bulls, Lakers, cavs fans just so they don't get called out.

or they are just team fans who doesn't believe the team deserve its full support when they put up shitty performances.

[GimmeThat]

Sports in America is a metaphor for war. Not saying other countries do not treat sports the same but America takes it seriously like warfare/

So that's why when ray Allen left the celts to sign with the heat, he is a Benedict Arnold.

everyone finds their own way to put passion into sports.

have you ever heard of the term sub-culture?

[SpanishACB]

honestly the way Barcelona stacks is fukking lame

Same with the way the Yankee's stack



few years ago, when Barcelona won 6 out of 6 trophies possible. Breaking a bunch of record in their way and many considering that team the best ever they had 8 starters that cost the club "nothing" (salaries aside) as they came through the youth ranks, this included valdes, puyol, pique, xavi, iniesta, busquets, messi , pedro...

Yankee's comparison would be Real Madrid, Chelsea or PSG, that sign players on spending power alone.

[OmniStrife]

OP has forgotten about this shitstorm:

http://www.koonis.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/luisfigobarsamadrid1.jpg

[StephHamann]

Gotze and Lewandowski both left their small market team for the German powerhouse and there is not much of a controversy over "betrayal" or other things commonly cited in American media. Gotze has been playing for Borussia at their youth academy since the age of 8.

Sure the hooligans get pissed but your average fan is another story. People in America generally dislike Lebron James. Now he is loved by all. And this includes myself.

:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

dont listen to this idiot, there was huge controversy and watzke's (sort of GM of dortmund) reaction was similar to dan gilberts when lebron left

[ILLsmak]

Probably because it's so lacking in our society. Just like we will bring up morality and doing the right thing when no one does. It's something you can rarely find so everyone is fair game. Also add playing by the rules to that.

-Smak

[Oly BC]

I can't disagree more.

Have you been to Spain? Have you been to Italy? Loyalty and tradition is cherished here, more than any other aspect of the game. Players are allowed to transfer because they're all Lebron esque prima donnas with no concept of.what it means to give your soul.to a club. Sport itself is deteriorating because of people like this.

The idea Van Persia can leave Arsenal after what Wenger did fornhim , the idea Ronaldo would leave united. Its disgraceful.
When Figo went to Real and then returned to Barcelona's stadium for a game, fans threw pig heads at him.

European sports were amateur up until a point it time, I don't know if that was ever the case in the US. People would become associated with teams in the past, it's more difficult now because they're all "professionals" but I don't know many fans who enjoy this new reality and you still get old-fashioned footballers like Puyol.



Why doesn't anyone burn all the jerseys of all the players that move in a transfer window? I think it's because we're not as crazy and in love with a single person here. People follow teams and their team, its history, always stays there. Fans can be pissed off at someone but in the end the team goes on, as does life outside of being fan of course.

[Oly BC]

few years ago, when Barcelona won 6 out of 6 trophies possible. Breaking a bunch of record in their way and many considering that team the best ever they had 8 starters that cost the club "nothing" (salaries aside) as they came through the youth ranks, this included valdes, puyol, pique, xavi, iniesta, busquets, messi , pedro...

Yankee's comparison would be Real Madrid, Chelsea or PSG, that sign players on spending power alone.
They obviously have a new policy now.

[Fox]

OP has forgotten about this shitstorm:

http://www.koonis.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/luisfigobarsamadrid1.jpg

This.

[dunksby]

http://www.totalbarca.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/12.jpg

[ArbitraryWater]

Great points... Especially when American peeps are all like "He just ruined his legacy by..." LOL... By doing something NOT playing.

The Figo instance is literally the only Thing you can point out... I mean, Ronaldo / Best Player in the World, goes from United to Madrid, no backlash... First return, Manchester cheers him on...

Complete opposite in Basketball with LeBron... I get why Clevelanders were mad, because of the way he did it, but that's not even what it's about... Just the thousands of People saying "Oh LEBRON ISNT LOYAL!!!" "LeBron will NEVER BE this and that guy!!"

Really, they switched teams, so what, get over it.

[FrobeShaw]

http://www.totalbarca.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/12.jpg

:biggums:

????

I don't follow soccer but I assume that symbolizes him being a traitor or something....why though?

[Rubio2Gasol]

:biggums:

????

I don't follow soccer but I assume that symbolizes him being a traitor or something....why though?

Because he's a traitor.

But alas, that was payback for Enrique. :cheers:

[FrobeShaw]

Why a pig head? Because he's a pig head? lmfao

[Godzuki]

few years ago, when Barcelona won 6 out of 6 trophies possible. Breaking a bunch of record in their way and many considering that team the best ever they had 8 starters that cost the club "nothing" (salaries aside) as they came through the youth ranks, this included valdes, puyol, pique, xavi, iniesta, busquets, messi , pedro...

Yankee's comparison would be Real Madrid, Chelsea or PSG, that sign players on spending power alone.


i don't follow pro soccer much at all, only in world cup

all i know is it always seems like Barcelona is signing every top player on their team, and ridiculously stacking where things become anti competitive. if they do it thru their youth ranks, like minor leagues in baseball, then i suppose they earned it then. I am more against spending more than everyone else can to field a dominant team. I didn't know that about Barcelone, but i swear i always read about them signing these top players from other clubs.

the whole point of sports is competition. NOT A FEW TEAMS WINNING/DOMNIATING....a league should be competitive. Damn whats that term to describe league 'even'ness' they always use? ....on the tip of my tongue :mad:

I honestly can't believe what i'm reading in this thread from some people :biggums:

[Magic 32]

OP has forgotten about this shitstorm:

http://www.koonis.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/luisfigobarsamadrid1.jpg

Didn't this happen in the 90's as well?

I think other players have made the Barcelona/Real swap

[SupermanOnSteroids]

because murica is the land of the free and the home of the brave. not like that ******* ass europe. can europe match this shit?

http://www.dudeiwantthat.com/household/decor/abraham-lincoln-riding-a-4147.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y154/khazim/prez1.jpg
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_t9pl9Dh5gGQ/S53TobB4TjI/AAAAAAAASec/JEH-gPk3foM/s400/Washington_Vs__Tiger_by_SharpWriter.jpg
http://31.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m6pcabB8bz1r0wmpgo1_500.jpg
http://weknowmemes.com/generator/uploads/generated/g1358398315944891010.jpg

[Godzuki]

The free thinking one. Successful people today think a lot more freely than successful people in the past. My dad is slowly learning about this and might give up being a Knicks fan just because of this "loyalty" thing marketing people have pushed so idiots keep being loyal to a privately owned team in a privately owned league just because they slapped the name of the city/state in the team name to make more money.
Being loyal only applies to players and fans, not the owners.


you do realize its in a LEAGUE's best interest to have parity? lol couldn't even remember this word a minute ago....i don't know how it just came to me now.

this whole thread is bizarre is fukk if i'm really reading things right.

I mean people here are really advocating a few teams having ridiculously stacked rosters over the rest of the league? a few teams having advantages in getting top players over the rest of the league?

how do you not see that as anti competitive?

Yes its the goal of a team to make it the best they can with stars....and its the goal of the League to make it as competitive from team to team as they can.

Unfortunately you do the best you can because there will always be owners richer than others. There will always be areas that are bigger with more sports fans than others. But the Leagues goal should always strive for parity. This is sports, do you people realize the whole point of sports? competitive competition? Maybe some of you have gone too far into the entertainment direction..

[Derka]

Fans here are insane, that's why. Here in Boston, see the example of Jacoby Ellsbury for what I'm talking about.

Its a business and no matter how personally loyal I am to the laundry the Boston teams wear, the business implications behind the machinations of these players are not something I get all worked up about. These guys have a short window to earn all the money they possibly can, so that's what they need to do.

[dreamwarrior]

Because it's not about winning or losing it's about how you play the game. That's been drilled into us ever since we were kids. But when you get into the professional level, it's a business first. Why aren't the Kings getting chastised for trading their elite PG? What about the 76ers who wanted to trade their ROY MCW?