Is lebron the best finisher at the rim of all time?

[VengefulAngel]

^^, can finish through contact, has a variety of ways finish at the rim and has shot an exceptionally high percentage. (80% near the rim)

[buddha]

mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm mmmmmmmmmmmmm

[Rose'sACL]

Yes.

[NZStreetBaller]

Shaq??? Kareem??? Hakeem??

[RoundMoundOfReb]

for a perimeter player - yes.

[brandonislegend]

^^, can finish through contact, has a variety of ways finish at the rim and has shot an exceptionally high percentage. (80% near the rim)
In terms of all around power yes.

Kyrie is crazy good at finishing at the rim, I haven't seen a player manipulate english on the ball like he does in quite some time.

[BigTicket]

Lebron made 79.6% of his shots at the rim last year, that's higher than 01 Shaq ...

At least among perimeter players Lebron is the best, maybe among all players.

[ImKobe]

Most likely.

[TheMan]

Easily among the best.

[The-Legend-24]

Nope. And I'll tell you why.

2/5

[PHILA]

I would say Barkley, and by finish I mean strictly in the half court. LeBron's best season shooting in the restricted area was this past season (2013-14).

http://stats.nba.com/playerShotchart.html?PlayerID=2544&zone-mode=basic


However, if we use http://www.mysynergysports.com to eliminate all 2 Point FG's in transition, we can see the totals below for both players (half court only).


LeBron James (2013-14) *Including Playoffs

335/437 FG (76.7%), 4.51 Attempts Per Game



Charles Barkley (84 Game Sample)

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=312709

467/574 FG (81.4%), 6.83 Attempts Per Game




Shaquille O'Neal (1999-00) *Transition data unavailable

http://stats.nba.com/playerShotchart.html?PlayerID=406&Season=1999-00&zone-mode=basic

571/763 FG (74.8%), 9.66 Attempts Per Game

[VengefulAngel]

I would say Barkley, and by finish I mean strictly in the half court. LeBron's best season shooting in the restricted area was this past season (2013-14).

http://stats.nba.com/playerShotchart.html?PlayerID=2544&zone-mode=basic


However, if we use http://www.mysynergysports.com to eliminate all 2 Point FG's in transition, we can see the totals below for both players (half court only).


LeBron James (2013-14) *Including Playoffs

335/437 FG (76.7%), 4.51 Attempts Per Game



Charles Barkley (84 Game Sample)

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=312709

467/574 FG (81.4%), 6.83 Attempts Per Game




Shaquille O'Neal (1999-00) *Transition data unavailable

http://stats.nba.com/playerShotchart.html?PlayerID=406&Season=1999-00&zone-mode=basic

571/763 FG (74.8%), 9.66 Attempts Per Game

Ty :).

[The-Legend-24]

:roll:

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Also like to say - He's become a much better finisher ever since he stopped trying to dunk everything...gets more and-1s

[navy]

I would say yes. But then again, I guess it depends on your criteria.

[QuebecBaller]

no

[GimmeThat]

in terms of playing above the rim, I'd say he comes close to it.

[JohnMax]

Tony Parker

Forget the percentages. He is the most skilled finisher and has the best touch.

[poido123]

Jordan?

With defenses allowed to camp in the key and big men who actually defend the basket, shouldn't jordan have this as Well?

LeBron is very good, but I doubt he is as successful in a hand checking, quality big men, key flooding era.

[AintNoSunshine]

No I am, as long as I can see the backboard that ball's going in. Lebron's close second tho.

[Kblaze8855]

Depends...hes better attacking and completing the move than Karl Malone...hes not better catching a pass and finishing.

Malone and Barkley finished in traffic as well as anyone.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Jordan?

With defenses allowed to camp in the key and big men who actually defend the basket, shouldn't jordan have this as Well?

LeBron is very good, but I doubt he is as successful in a hand checking, quality big men, key flooding era.
When was this?

[JohnMax]

Tony Parker, Derrick Rose and Michael Jordan are the most skilled finishers I have seen.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

It doesn't matter how you finish it's that you finish...is it really better if you make a floater or circus layup instead of doing a LeBron/Shaq and overpowering the guy??

And LeBron actually has great touch around the basket...not unskilled at all..

[Hands of Iron]

It doesn't matter how you finish it's that you finish...is it really better if you make a floater or circus layup instead of doing a LeBron/Shaq and overpowering the guy??

And LeBron actually has great touch around the basket...not unskilled at all..

Nope, incredibly ambidextrous.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Nope, incredibly ambidextrous.
that as well

[GimmeThat]

It doesn't matter how you finish it's that you finish...is it really better if you make a floater or circus layup instead of doing a LeBron/Shaq and overpowering the guy??

And LeBron actually has great touch around the basket...not unskilled at all..


well, I think in this instance, people were more focused on the term "finisher"
where as a floater or circus layup seems to be the guy who started the play outside of the defensive 3 second area, but the ability to get to the basket as well as finish.

[BIZARRO]

Two letters. M.J.

[poido123]

When was this?

The early Boston teams did it, the bad boy pistons did it, the 90's Knicks did it, teams with decent centre's were able to leave their big man in the paint without fear of the 3 second defensive violation. Around the 2001-2002 Season I think the rule was introduced?

So yeah, penetrating the key is a bit easier these days.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

The early Boston teams did it, the bad boy pistons did it, the 90's Knicks did it, teams with decent centre's were able to leave their big man in the paint without fear of the 3 second defensive violation. Around the 2001-2002 Season I think the rule was introduced?

So yeah, penetrating the key is a bit easier these days.
You know before defensive 3 in the key it was defensive 0 in the key?

As in you couldn't leave your man and stand in the key for any amount of time?

[poido123]

You know before defensive 3 in the key it was defensive 0 in the key?

As in you couldn't leave your man and stand in the key for any amount of time?


The zone defense would be played, but immediately collapse to the key to defend the scoring threat (mj) and therefore be making an attempt to "play the opponent" under the rule.

There were also weak side and strong side rules for defense, the point Is that jordan was met by aggressive collapsing defenses at the entry to the basket.

[step_back]

I'd say Shaq because no one could stop him from getting to the rim. Before he got old there was nothing teams could do. The most physically dominant player that played IMO.

[GimmeThat]

The zone defense would be played, but immediately collapse to the key to defend the scoring threat (mj) and therefore be making an attempt to "play the opponent" under the rule.

There were also weak side and strong side rules for defense, the point Is that jordan was met by aggressive collapsing defenses at the entry to the basket.

I'd say Jordan/Lebron's ability to split defender in the air is about as unique/great as it gets when facing collapsing defense

Kobe the overrated athlete would try some amateur dribbling between the defender stuff and gets met with a nasty block.

[Marchesk]

What about Dr J?

[poido123]

I'd say Jordan/Lebron's ability to split defender in the air is about as unique/great as it gets when facing collapsing defense

Kobe the overrated athlete would try some amateur dribbling between the defender stuff and gets met with a nasty block.


:cheers: Jordan's hang time helped him alot and the large hands to control the ball in the air.

Lebron is so powerful and strong, using his speed and size to get to the hole at will.

[plowking]

There are current and past players/coaches who suggest jordan would find it easier to drive in today's game than his era too, but it's all just opinion.


I realize there are quotes from plenty of players and coaches, but not a whole lot if at all from players that played in both eras. I find it funny that the 3 great players in the article who played in both of these eras said they found it harder to be a great individual, and get to the spots they wanted in this era of "zones".

But I'm sure we'll be told by the others on the forum that it isn't that way, and they have proof of old school players who haven't played in both eras saying otherwise. :oldlol:

Not trying to start an argument with you, but it is something that has consistently cracked me up during my time on this forum. Despite what the stats say, we keep getting told how much easier it is nowadays, yet we even have players saying otherwise.

[JohnFreeman]

Yes, yes he is.

[Rondo]

Rose is better. He can dunk it like LeBron but he's also got the finesse like Parker.

[leMVP]

for a perimeter player - yes.

This.

[r0drig0lac]

Tony Parker, Derrick Rose and Michael Jordan are the most skilled finishers I have seen.
this

[poido123]

I realize there are quotes from plenty of players and coaches, but not a whole lot if at all from players that played in both eras. I find it funny that the 3 great players in the article who played in both of these eras said they found it harder to be a great individual, and get to the spots they wanted in this era of "zones".

But I'm sure we'll be told by the others on the forum that it isn't that way, and they have proof of old school players who haven't played in both eras saying otherwise. :oldlol:

Not trying to start an argument with you, but it is something that has consistently cracked me up during my time on this forum. Despite what the stats say, we keep getting told how much easier it is nowadays, yet we even have players saying otherwise.


You too will endure the Lebron myths as his career comes to an end and long after he retires.

People will be saying lebron scored his points off weak interior defenses and inferior athleticism and that Wiggins played in a more athletic and centre - rich league.

I will be watching over another generation who will probably suggest that jordan played In a non - athletic league, the myth storm never stops :oldlol:

Everyone will become an old nostalgic fool at some point.

[Rocketswin2013]

Barkley and LeBron have to be up there. Then you have Wilt and Shaq.
Malone and Stoudemire if you're talking off the catch..

[Le Shaqtus]

He finishes well on my rim all the time.

[jstern]

I realize there are quotes from plenty of players and coaches, but not a whole lot if at all from players that played in both eras. I find it funny that the 3 great players in the article who played in both of these eras said they found it harder to be a great individual, and get to the spots they wanted in this era of "zones".

But I'm sure we'll be told by the others on the forum that it isn't that way, and they have proof of old school players who haven't played in both eras saying otherwise. :oldlol:

Not trying to start an argument with you, but it is something that has consistently cracked me up during my time on this forum. Despite what the stats say, we keep getting told how much easier it is nowadays, yet we even have players saying otherwise.

I remember young Kobe being an amazing finisher, best in the league.

Here's what he has to say about the rule changes, playing since 96.

"I like the contact," Bryant said. "As a defensive player, if you enjoy playing defense, that's what you want. You want to be able to put your hands on a guy. You want to be able to hand check a little bit. The truth is, it makes the game [where] players have to be more skillful. Nowadays, literally anybody can get out there and get to the basket and you can't touch anybody. Back then, if guys put their hands on you, you had to have the skill to be able to go both ways, change direction, post up, you had to have a mid-range game because you didn't want to go all the way to the basket because you would get knocked ass over tea kettle. So I think playing the game back then required much more skill."

http://espn.go.com/los-angeles/nba/story/_/id/10325177/kobe-bryant-los-angeles-lakers-calls-nba-finesse

There Bryant is talking about perimeter players. Tim Duncan and Kevin Garnette are not perimeter players.

[GimmeThat]

I think Griffin is right up there as well.


But I feel more confident with Lebron finishing 2nd shot opportunity off an offensive rebound than say Griffin, because of his size when he does a power jump.

[navy]

Rose is better. He can dunk it like LeBron but he's also got the finesse like Parker.
No. Rose and Parker just "look" better . Lebron converts at a higher rate.