Cleveland favorite to win in early championship markets..

[poido123]

Is lebron the only reason they are Favorite?

Surely his supporting cast has a lot to do with how far they go.

I've been reading people saying lebron is joining an ordinary 33 win team and downplaying his teammates like he will be carrying them :lol

The betting doesn't suggest his team is Ordinary?

Stop with the Bullshit lebron stans :oldlol:

[Kblaze8855]

The main Lebron haters the last several years are on here saying the cavs arent good enough to contend and arent that talented.

Same people will call the team stacked when they start winning though.

All around odd situation.

[JohnFreeman]

He is joining a team that didn't make the playoffs last year, with a new coach

[poido123]

He is joining a team that didn't make the playoffs last year, with a new coach


They are most definitely playoff caliber without lebron, only that a poor coach and team turmoil held them back from reaching their potential.

The new coach is a major plus dude :lol potato head was coaching shadows, because nobody on that Cavs team was listening to him.

[BigTicket]

Cleveland as the favorite makes no sense, unless you assume that Love is going to Cleveland.

If it's just the current Cavs team, there is no way they're the favorite next year. Far too young and experienced.

[poido123]

The main Lebron haters the last several years are on here saying the cavs arent good enough to contend and arent that talented.

Same people will call the team stacked when they start winning though.

All around odd situation.


They were playoff caliber last year, not contenders though obviously.

Adding a decent coach, Wiggins and LeBron just catapulted them to favorites and rightfully so.

I'm just making point of the overreaction to the narrative of lebron returning to fulfill the promise he made.

[TheAnchorman]

Miami didn't win their first year with a prime Wade. Betting on CLE means you are basically expecting Cleveland to be like 08 Boston or 83 Philadelphia, teams with drastic changes that make them instant contenders. Except those teams are few and far between... even the current Spurs took a couple of years after Leonard was drafted to win the title.

[poido123]

Cleveland as the favorite makes no sense, unless you assume that Love is going to Cleveland.

If it's just the current Cavs team, there is no way they're the favorite next year. Far too young and experienced.


I disagree.

Cavs were only held back last year by a poor coach and system, plus the off court distractions, the talent was always there.

They just added a potential superstar and the best player in the nba to an already playoff caliber team.

They deserve to be favorites imo

[Jameerthefear]

I disagree.

Cavs were only held back last year by a poor coach and system, plus the off court distractions, the talent was always there.

They just added a potential superstar and the best player in the nba to an already playoff caliber team.

They deserve to be favorites imo
dumb. so dumb

[BigTicket]

I disagree.

Cavs were only held back last year by a poor coach and system, the talent was always there.

They just added a potential superstar and the best player in the nba to an already playoff caliber team.

They deserve to be favorites imo

Wiggins has never played an NBA game, Blatt has never coached an NBA game, and Irving/Waiters/Bennett/Thompson have never played a playoff game.

Lebron is damn good, but noone is good enough to move turn an inexperienced 33-win team into the championship favorite overnight.

[I<3NBA]

Is lebron the only reason they are Favorite?

Surely his supporting cast has a lot to do with how far they go.

I've been reading people saying lebron is joining an ordinary 33 win team and downplaying his teammates like he will be carrying them :lol

The betting doesn't suggest his team is Ordinary?

Stop with the Bullshit lebron stans :oldlol:
ask yourself this question: without Lebron, how far would the Cavs get? ECF? 2nd round? will they even make the playoffs?

[poido123]

Miami didn't win their first year with a prime Wade. Betting on CLE means you are basically expecting Cleveland to be like 08 Boston or 83 Philadelphia, teams with drastic changes that make them instant contenders. Except those teams are few and far between... even the current Spurs took a couple of years after Leonard was drafted to win the title.


This current Cavs team has more talent than the teams you mentioned.

Talent that should surely overwhelm nearly all the teams in the nba if harnessed properly.

But I do agree that it might take them a year to gel, however they should still win based on talent alone.

[DukeDelonte13]

way too many starting lineup changes last year.

Clark, Bynum, Deng, Dion in, Dion out, CJ, Hawes, Kyrie at the 1, Kyrie at the 2, Jack at the 1, etc.


Bynum, Deng, Jack, and Clark were all major disappointments.

No consistency. Cavs played hard early on in the season then kinda gave up as the season went on. Grant gets fired and they start playing hard again. They got so close to an 8th seed, huge game against ATL, and what happens? Major negative piece comes out morning of the game saying Kyrie wants out. I'm sure that went over well in the lockeroom.

[jrong]

I saw this, and it's ridiculous how much difference the oddsmakers etc. think the simple addition of LeBron can make.

I mean, I must have forgotten how LeBron dragged the Heat to within inches of a repeat victory over the Spurs.

Oh wait, he didn't. They lost by 15, 19, 21 and 17 in their four defeats. They won one game by 2.

He put up nice stats that had no impact whatsoever on the series outcome, except to barely prevent a sweep.

And now Vegas thinks he can singlehandedly take the Cavs from the lottery to being able to beat the Spurs or whoever comes out of the West? (And that's IF they can even get out of the East).

The reality check is coming.

[Kblaze8855]

They were playoff caliber last year, not contenders though obviously.

Adding a decent coach, Wiggins and LeBron just catapulted them to favorites and rightfully so.

I'm just making point of the overreaction to the narrative of lebron returning to fulfill the promise he made.


Adding Lebron made them favorites to some. None of the rest matters.

Any...30ish win team you put Lebron on is gonna have people thinking they can contend.

The coach and wiggins are 100% unproven to be anything in the NBA.

Lebron made the difference and that is how it will be remembered unless Wiggins comes out on some Michael/Magic/Bird shit as a rookie.

Its always been that way.

THe leagues premier player goes somewhere and they become great...hes the addition history cares about.

[poido123]

dumb. so dumb


Feel free to offer something.

[Jameerthefear]

people assuming that all of these guys who have never played in the playoffs will be good playoff performers is lol

[poido123]

ask yourself this question: without Lebron, how far would the Cavs get? ECF? 2nd round? will they even make the playoffs?


2nd round, with only the bulls, heat, and indy ahead of them. Wiz, raptors and Cavs on that second tier.

Mike Brown was bad, blatt will at least offer a play or two offensively.

[JohnFreeman]

Haters be reaching

[Warfan]

How the hell are the Cavs the favorites?? :roll: :roll: They were a 35-40ish (healthy) win team in one of the worst conferences ever. They add LeBron and an unproven rookie (not saying he wont be special in the future, but it isn't guaranteed either). Adding a rookie wiggins and bron doesn't push this team over multiple teams in the west.

Just straight up disrespecting the Spurs, OKC etc. And shouldn't u be confident with your Bulls? They're gonna be a huge threat to make the finals next season IMO.

[Warfan]

This current Cavs team has more talent than the teams you mentioned.

Talent that should surely overwhelm nearly all the teams in the nba if harnessed properly.

But I do agree that it might take them a year to gel, however they should still win based on talent alone.

You really think this current Cavs team is better than the 83 76ers(with Moses, Dr j, Toney, Cheeks) and 08 Celtics?? I mean, I know you don't like LeBron, but this shit is borderline retarded and just straight reaching.

[poido123]

You really think this current Cavs team is better than the 83 76ers(with Moses, Dr j, Toney, Cheeks) and 08 Celtics?? I mean, I know you don't like LeBron, but this shit is borderline retarded and just straight reaching.


I do.

They have so many weapons offensively and defensively. Wiggins and LeBron on the perimeter playing defense will be a sight to see. They can video game the Fck out of this league, just so much athleticism and explosive scoring.

Who's is stopping the Fast break? Irving Wiggins lebron :eek:

[FLDFSU]

Is lebron the only reason they are Favorite?

Surely his supporting cast has a lot to do with how far they go.

I've been reading people saying lebron is joining an ordinary 33 win team and downplaying his teammates like he will be carrying them :lol

The betting doesn't suggest his team is Ordinary?

Stop with the Bullshit lebron stans :oldlol:

The odds of the Cleveland Cavaliers winning the NBA championship next season improved dramatically after LeBron James announced he is returning to his hometown team.

Even the defending champion San Antonio Spurs, with 5-1 odds, are less of a favorite than the Cavs. Clearly, oddsmakers have been expecting a major shift in future betting cash on the Cavaliers -- the team was approximately 80-1 a week ago and odds have been falling as the possibility grew of a return to Ohio.

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2014/07/with_lebron_james_returning_cl.html

[Roundball_Rock]

Vegas odds reflect what the general public thinks, not expert opinion. To the casual observer any team with LeBron on it is the favorite. Reputations matter a lot more than actual performance with Vegas. I remember when the Eagles had a lousy year in 2007 but were still being favored consistently in Vegas because of their reputation during the Reid-McNabb era. Dale Earnhardt Jr. is another example of being favored beyond your actual odds of success, simply because he is a big name that casual fans know.


2nd round, with only the bulls, heat, and indy ahead of them. Wiz, raptors and Cavs on that second tier.

2nd round? Do you really think this team minus LeBron would be capable of beating the Bulls, Pacers, or Heat in the first round? They wouldn't even be able to beat the Wizards, Raptors, or Hawks in the first round let alone one of the top teams who they would be facing since if CLE made it to the playoffs it would be as a 7th or 8th place team absent LeBron.

[ronnymac]

The Spurs are having a good ol time laughing.Unless a team improves a lot and no one really has thus far, they are the team to beat.

[poido123]

How the hell are the Cavs the favorites?? :roll: :roll: They were a 35-40ish (healthy) win team in one of the worst conferences ever. They add LeBron and an unproven rookie (not saying he wont be special in the future, but it isn't guaranteed either). Adding a rookie wiggins and bron doesn't push this team over multiple teams in the west.

Just straight up disrespecting the Spurs, OKC etc. And shouldn't u be confident with your Bulls? They're gonna be a huge threat to make the finals next season IMO.


Bulls are a chance, but we have weaknesses in our backcourt rotation. We need another trade to address this weakness before I can confidently say we are a threat.

Cavs can exploit our lack of shooters in the starting lineup, lebron can keep a lid on rose if rose doesn't have help to space the floor. Gasol may help a bit there, but he will get attention and our shooters will need to knock Down shots.

[OnFire]

I don't expect them to be in the Finals but you never know. They aren't worse than the supporting cast LeBron had before in Cleveland.

They are young so unless they get Kevin Love or another big name. If they keep current roster I wouldn't consider them a favorite until one of the young guys get into at least the beginning of their prime or all star level if their prime is something greater. Could be this year could be in 5 years.

The odds are how they are to make 50% of people bet on each side, not necessarily who the odds maker thinks is better. All those Cavs fans dropping that hard earn cash on the Cavs on their way back from the mall with their new LeBron Jersey after burning the old one lol.

[Warfan]

I do.

They have so many weapons offensively and defensively. Wiggins and LeBron on the perimeter playing defense will be a sight to see. They can video game the Fck out of this league, just so much athleticism and explosive scoring.

Who's is stopping the Fast break? Irving Wiggins lebron :eek:

:biggums: I honestly cant tell if you're joking. That 83 team freaking SWEPT Magic and Kareem, and you think Lebron, Kyrie (talented but still has ways to go to be an elite PG), and an unproven Wiggins (again he'll be a rookie and a 3rd option) are more talented than that team?? Ray/Pierce/Rondo/KG are less talented than the Cavs trio?? If you truthfully believe that I don't know what to say...

[poido123]

Vegas odds reflect what the general public thinks, not expert opinion. To the casual observer any team with LeBron on it is the favorite. Reputations matter a lot more than actual performance with Vegas. I remember when the Eagles had a lousy year in 2007 but were still being favored consistently in Vegas because of their reputation during the Reid-McNabb era. Dale Earnhardt Jr. is another example of being favored beyond your actual odds of success, simply because he is a big name that casual fans know.



2nd round? Do you really think this team minus LeBron would be capable of beating the Bulls, Pacers, or Heat in the first round? They wouldn't even be able to beat the Wizards, Raptors, or Hawks in the first round let alone one of the top teams who they would be facing since if CLE made it to the playoffs it would be as a 7th or 8th place team absent LeBron.


If they didn't face bulls pacers heat in the 1st round, it is plausible to think they would make the second round.

[pauk]

Anywhere Lebron goes, its the favorite....

[D-Rose]

The main Lebron haters the last several years are on here saying the cavs arent good enough to contend and arent that talented.

Same people will call the team stacked when they start winning though.

All around odd situation.
Yup, people flip their narratives so quick.

LeBron will make these guys mature so fast though, and playing next to him will really open up their games.

[NoGunzJustSkillz]

East coast is wide open imo. If Deng signs with Miami, it's gonna make the 2015 season that more interesting. Can't wait (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBaYVo89mmY&feature=kp).

[poido123]

:biggums: I honestly cant tell if you're joking. That 83 team freaking SWEPT Magic and Kareem, and you think Lebron, Kyrie (talented but still has ways to go to be an elite PG), and an unproven Wiggins (again he'll be a rookie and a 3rd option) are more talented than that team?? Ray/Pierce/Rondo/KG are less talented than the Cavs trio?? If you truthfully believe that I don't know what to say...


In talent comparison in this league, they are comfortably ahead.

I don't know enough about the 83 philly team to make that claim so I'll sit on the fence on that one, but yes I think this Cavs team is talent wise better than the 08 Celtics.

Who knows exactly how they gel, but I suspect they should be pretty good. The fast break alone will be impossible to stop.

[Duderonomy]

48-55 win team (assuming Love isn't on the team) the east is weak outside of the Bulls and Pacers. The Thunder and Spurs are much better.

[leMVP]

Lebron joining any team would make them instant favourites.

[OnFire]

Yup, people flip their narratives so quick.

LeBron will make these guys mature so fast though, and playing next to him will really open up their games.

It doesn't have to be a flip flop. I think everyone can see the potential in the team but will the reach enough of it in year 1, year 2, 5? don't know. It seems like they are better than who LeBron had in Cleveland before though.

[FLDFSU]

Anywhere Lebron goes, its the favorite....

Lebron could go to Philly and we would have ISH talking about how stacked the 76ers are with their young talent. ISH would talk about how last year was simply an aberration and that they had "some off the court problems" that caused them to underachieve.

Finally ISH would note how everyone knew the 76ers was a prime destination spot for "ringchasers" but pay no attention to the fact that no free agents were signing up to go there--76ers were prime for a championship run without Lebron.

[D-Rose]

It doesn't have to be a flip flop. I think everyone can see the potential in the team but will the reach enough of it in year 1, year 2, 5? don't know. It seems like they are better than who LeBron had in Cleveland before though.
Of course this team is more talented than the first CLE team.

LeBron is going to be the odds-on MVP favorite for sure as this team probably wins 20 or so more games next year.

[Rocketswin2013]

You really think this current Cavs team is better than the 83 76ers(with Moses, Dr j, Toney, Cheeks) and 08 Celtics?? I mean, I know you don't like LeBron, but this shit is borderline retarded and just straight reaching.
Add Bobby Jones who was one of the greatest defenders ever

[Kujo]

No way are the Cavs the favs next year. I'm not even convinced that they'll come out of the East next year. Yes, they are a top 4 seed.

The roster as it currently stands would get beat down by whoever comes out of the West, which will be the Spurs again imho.

Hell, even Lebron admits it will take time in Cleveland.

[poido123]

Here's a thought.

Lebron lead his previous Cavs team to the playoffs and even reached the finals with a far more inferior team than this one.

What makes you think that a prime lebron with a better supporting cast is going to be doing worse than those Teams?

[Crimsonrain777]

it would be so sweet if the heat were to knock out the cavs in the playoffs. this would be the first time in years where the majority of ish fans would be rooting for the heat in a playoff series:lol

[Rocketswin2013]

LeBron could have went to Houston outright, LAC, Phoenix outright and people are actually calling the man a ring chaser for choosing the Cavs ?

[ottooooooo]

spurs or thunder

[lilgodfather1]

This is such a unique situation, that can never be repeated, by anyone.

3 #1 overall picks in 4 years, and 2 #4 overall picks. That is crazy enough, then you add in the best player in the NBA, some ring chasers, and a very weak EC, and boom, any team LeBron is on is an ECf lock.

Getting to the ECF, means they have a 50/50 shot of making the finals. Out West, there isn't even a guarantee you make it out of the first round, it is wide open.

The logical bet is Cleveland to win the title imo. Too many great teams out West to make a bet on one of them.

In the East there is a lot of ?'s. How good will Miami actually be? Can Rose stay healthy? Is Indy going to lose Lance? Was Toronto a one hit wonder?

Just too many ?'s to bet on one of those, so Cleveland, for betting purposes, is the best choice.

[BoutPractice]

I don't have them as number 1, but if I have to pick between San Antonio, Cleveland, OKC and "the field", I don't pick the field, that's for sure.

[FLDFSU]

This is such a unique situation, that can never be repeated, by anyone.

3 #1 overall picks in 4 years, and 2 #4 overall picks. That is crazy enough, then you add in the best player in the NBA, some ring chasers, and a very weak EC, and boom, any team LeBron is on is an ECf lock.

Getting to the ECF, means they have a 50/50 shot of making the finals. Out West, there isn't even a guarantee you make it out of the first round, it is wide open.

The logical bet is Cleveland to win the title imo. Too many great teams out West to make a bet on one of them.

In the East there is a lot of ?'s. How good will Miami actually be? Can Rose stay healthy? Is Indy going to lose Lance? Was Toronto a one hit wonder?

Just too many ?'s to bet on one of those, so Cleveland, for betting purposes, is the best choice.

I can get that logic. But why not the most stacked team of all time Heat? Why are they not the odd on favorites.

In fact, the Heat got better because the ball hogging choker is no longer there to stop the potential of superstar Wade and Bosh, of which he made a spot up shooter?

[poido123]

it would be so sweet if the heat were to knock out the cavs in the playoffs. this would be the first time in years where the majority of ish fans would be rooting for the heat in a playoff series:lol

:lol

That is truly a major mind f.ck :oldlol:

[Kujo]

Not sure how anyone can call Lebron a ring chaser for going back to the Cavs.

[DirkNowitzki41]

are people really trying to say cleveland is stacked? :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

pathetic

[Roundball_Rock]

Lebron could go to Philly and we would have ISH talking about how stacked the 76ers are with their young talent. ISH would talk about how last year was simply an aberration and that they had "some off the court problems" that caused them to underachieve.

Finally ISH would note how everyone knew the 76ers was a prime destination spot for "ringchasers" but pay no attention to the fact that no free agents were signing up to go there--76ers were prime for a championship run without Lebron.

:lol true.


If they didn't face bulls pacers heat in the 1st round, it is plausible to think they would make the second round.

What are the odds they would have avoided them in the first place? The Cavs were a 33 win team last year. The 8th seed won 38 games and that was with their best player missing over 60% of the season. The 7th seed won 43 games. The 6th and 5th seeds won 44. How about 2013? 38 for 8th, 41 for 7th, 44 for 6th, 45 for 5th. Do you really think the Cavs would even get a seed high enough to avoid those teams in the first round? Moreover, people are underrating the Raptors. They were on a 55 win pace after the all-star break. The Nets will be better next year as well with Lopez returning and an upgrade in coaching. Even if the Cavs got the 5th seed they would be underdogs against the Raptors or Nets.


LeBron could have went to Houston outright, LAC, Phoenix outright and people are actually calling the man a ring chaser for choosing the Cavs ?

Exactly. :lol


3 #1 overall picks in 4 years

One who put up worse numbers than rookie Kwame Brown. 4/2/0 on 36%.

The irony here is Lebron haters are implicitly arguing that LeBron is so great he can turn any team into a legitimate contender--even a team no one viewed as anything more than a 7th seed in a weak East, if lucky, next year. These are the same people who go around saying he is not top 10 all-time.

[J Shuttlesworth]

They were playoff caliber last year, not contenders though obviously.

Adding a decent coach, Wiggins and LeBron just catapulted them to favorites and rightfully so.

I'm just making point of the overreaction to the narrative of lebron returning to fulfill the promise he made.
What do you mean they were playoff caliber last year? They were a 33 win team in the East.

you think an unproven rookie, Wiggins, would be guaranteed to take that team to the playoffs? They probably wouldn't sniff the top 10 seeds on the West, even with Wiggins. New coach who has never coached in the NBA before, and new rookie who has never stepped food on the court and you're acting like this is a playoff caliber team without LeBron? Even if Wiggins puts up 20/7/4, and Blatt turns out decent, they'd be an 8th seed in the East at best without LeBron. Obviously LeBron will make them a contender in the East, but not necessarily a championship contender until the youth develops.

Let's not act like LeBron would be going to this team if he was from another town though. No other free agents were considering Cleveland until LeBron joined.

[FLDFSU]

:lol true.

The irony here is Lebron haters are implicitly arguing that LeBron is so great he can turn any team into a legitimate contender--even a team no one viewed as anything more than a 7th seed in a weak East, if lucky, next year. These are the same people who go around saying he is not top 10 all-time.

:bowdown:

[poido123]

What do you mean they were playoff caliber last year? They were a 33 win team in the East.

you think an unproven rookie, Wiggins, would be guaranteed to take that team to the playoffs? They probably wouldn't sniff the top 10 seeds on the West, even with Wiggins. New coach who has never coached in the NBA before, and new rookie who has never stepped food on the court and you're acting like this is a playoff caliber team without LeBron? Even if Wiggins puts up 20/7/4, and Blatt turns out decent, they'd be an 8th seed in the East at best without LeBron. Obviously LeBron will make them a contender in the East, but not necessarily a championship contender until the youth develops.

Let's not act like LeBron would be going to this team if he was from another town though. No other free agents were considering Cleveland until LeBron joined.


Potato head replaced by a coke can would be an upgrade.

I'd like to hear from RBA on his thoughts about Cavs being a playoff caliber team last year. If anyone knows about Cavs, it's him.

They were on track for the playoffs, but the Bynum debacle and other internal issues derailed their season.

[Rubio2Gasol]

It's somewhat the same as CP3 going to the Clippers a couple years ago, except the Cavs have more talent. When they improved, people were talking about how CP3 turned around the franchise.

But they were always going to improve substantially anyway.

When OKC went from a 23 win team to a 50 win team in one season, what exactly changed? They drafted Harden and Ibaka, both of whom did nothing significant that year. Durant/Westbrook didn't miss any games either year. Brooks was the coach.

Same team jumped 27 wins.

Cavs are basically at that point anyway, with the same level of talent OKC had in 2009. If not this year, next year. Now, if players don't play to their potential. Now, if they don't develop their talent, that's their story. That's on the organization, the coach, and the guy at the top of the key that can only play with spot up guys.

[Warfan]

In talent comparison in this league, they are comfortably ahead.

I don't know enough about the 83 philly team to make that claim so I'll sit on the fence on that one, but yes I think this Cavs team is talent wise better than the 08 Celtics.

Who knows exactly how they gel, but I suspect they should be pretty good. The fast break alone will be impossible to stop.

Can you tell me about how talented this team will be next year?? Im seriously dumbfounded that you think the team is so talented.

FYI, that Philly team (are one of the GOAT teams and would curb-stomp the Cavs) and the Celtics team would undoubtedly beat this Cavs team. I mean a lot of people think that the 2014 spurs team might not be able to beat the 08 Celtics, the same Spurs team that gave LeBron's Heat the biggest beatdown in finals history. And that Spurs team will basically be the same this upcoming season. Do you really think the 2015 Cavs are more talented than the 2014 Heat? And if you do, you cant believe that they're talented enough to beat the Spurs, right???

[J Shuttlesworth]

Potato head replaced by a coke can would be an upgrade.

I'd like to hear from RBA on his thoughts about Cavs being a playoff caliber team last year. If anyone knows about Cavs, it's him.

They were on track for the playoffs, but the Bynum debacle and other internal issues derailed their season.
Your first post in this thread reeks of calling lebron a ring chaser... Why would he join a team that couldn't make the playoffs if that's the case? Even if they could make the east with wiggins, they still wouldn't make the west playoffs. He could've joined a team like the Rockets or Mavs, or even the Suns and they would all be far more talented than the Cavs.

Do you really think LeBron would have joined if he wasn't from there? If so, why didn't Melo try to get his agent to have the Cavs make him an offer?

[Rubio2Gasol]

Can you tell me about how talented this team will be next year?? Im seriously dumbfounded that you think the team is so talented.

FYI, that Philly team (are one of the GOAT teams and would curb-stomp the Cavs) and the Celtics team would undoubtedly beat this Cavs team. I mean a lot of people think that the 2014 spurs team might not be able to beat the 08 Celtics, the same Spurs team that gave LeBron's Heat the biggest beatdown in finals history. And that Spurs team will basically be the same this upcoming season. Do you really think the 2015 Cavs are more talented than the 2014 Heat? And if you do, you cant believe that they're talented enough to beat the Spurs, right???

What is talented?

The players are talented, that's onvious. They have more young talent than every other team in the league. Whether they become great players individually depends on other things, some within their control, some not.

[Roundball_Rock]

LeBron haters know LeBron is the only player in the league who can make any team a 50+ win team. :lol


They were on track for the playoffs, but the Bynum debacle and other internal issues derailed their season.

Here is what their record was after every month of the season:

5-12
10-21
16-30
24-36
30-45
33-49

Here is how many wins each of these teams had after each month. The Cavs are listed first, then the Hawks and then the Knicks.

5, 9, 3
10, 18, 9
16, 24, 19
24, 26, 21
30, 32, 32
33, 38, 37

So they had a brief period where, due to Atlanta collapsing without Horford, they were close but even then the Knicks were coming on strong. They spent pretty much all of last season in 10th place.

The talent is being overrated if it is being compared to Durant/Westbrook/Harden/Ibaka. How good is Irving? Right now he is at best a top 15 player. Wiggins is a 19 year old rookie. How much impact will he have out the gate? Bennett is a "#1 pick" who averaged 4/2/0 on 36% as a rookie. What a dominating force. How is this roster better than LAC, HOU, CHI, DAL, PHX or MIA with two superstars in Bosh/Wade?

[poido123]

Can you tell me about how talented this team will be next year?? Im seriously dumbfounded that you think the team is so talented.

FYI, that Philly team (are one of the GOAT teams and would curb-stomp the Cavs) and the Celtics team would undoubtedly beat this Cavs team. I mean a lot of people think that the 2014 spurs team might not be able to beat the 08 Celtics, the same Spurs team that gave LeBron's Heat the biggest beatdown in finals history. And that Spurs team will basically be the same this upcoming season. Do you really think the 2015 Cavs are more talented than the 2014 Heat? And if you do, you cant believe that they're talented enough to beat the Spurs, right???


Both TT and Andy v are double double threats and will bang the offensive/defensive boards for the Cavs.

The floor spacing that the big 3 provide should open up opportunities for the big men to find easy put backs.

Wiggins, lebron and Irving are obviously very talented and should provide opposing defenses a lot of problems. Lebron also has the ability to mend together a very effective swarming defense like he had with the heat. Wiggins can certainly help lebron for a formidable defense on the perimeter.

You have waiters off the bench as gravy, plus Bennett who looks to have taken the next step in recent play and conditioning looks infinitely better.

It's about match ups and Cavs have a team good enough to beat the Spurs with speed and talent. Spurs would still be a favorite, but they will have injury question marks all year and the threat of the west.

[Rubio2Gasol]

How good WERE those guys in 2009?

Those guys improved.

[D-Rose]

LeBron haters know LeBron is the only player in the league who can make any team a 50+ win team. :lol



Here is what their record was after every month of the season:

5-12
10-21
16-30
24-36
30-45
33-49

Here is how many wins each of these teams had after each month. The Cavs are listed first, then the Hawks and then the Knicks.

5, 9, 3
10, 18, 9
16, 24, 19
24, 26, 21
30, 32, 32
33, 38, 37

So they had a brief period where, due to Atlanta collapsing without Horford, they were close but even then the Knicks were coming on strong. They spent pretty much all of last season in 10th place.

The talent is being overrated if it is being compared to Durant/Westbrook/Harden/Ibaka. How good is Irving? Right now he is at best a top 15 player. Wiggins is a 19 year old rookie. How much impact will he have out the gate? Bennett is a "#1 pick" who averaged 4/2/0 on 36% as a rookie. What a dominating force. How is this roster better than LAC, HOU, CHI, DAL, PHX or MIA with two superstars in Bosh/Wade?


Miami is too much of a wild card with Wade's health. Bosh's game is totally different now than when he was a #1 as well. They'll be decent but I would probably pick CLE as is w/o Love to beat them.

I just recall how atrocious Miami looked on offense when LeBron was sitting. Wade and Bosh couldn't buy a bucket when LeBron had those cramps.

[hawkfan]

Cleveland needs a big.
Kris Humphries at full MLE.

[NumberSix]

If Cleveland can land Love, Miller and Allen, I'd have them as the #1 team in the East. As currently constructed, they're behind Indiana and about even with Chicago. Miami could still be ahead of Cleveland depending on what we do.

[poido123]

If Cleveland can land Love, Miller and Allen, I'd have them as the #1 team in the East. As currently constructed, they're behind Indiana and about even with Chicago. Miami could still be ahead of Cleveland depending on what we do.


Assuming we have have a healthy rose, you think we are an inferior team to the pacers who we routinely beat in the playoffs when rose was Healthy?

[GimmeThat]

I think they are the favorite by default because of the odds to make it to the finals.

it wouldn't really make sense for someone to have better championship odds with a less percentage of making it to the finals. unless the odds maker got enough balls to straight up say that West>East by that much.

from my experience watching the NBA.

the Finals is a complete different beast on its own.
Time Zone, another team where you rarely meet during the regular season etc.

and they say the west is better at the moment because I don't see any team out west making it to the finals where as they haven't before.

But lets say a team like the Clippers make it there, if the Cavs have home court advantage, I consider that to be quite even odds for the Cavs than say the Spurs, OKC, and to a certain lesser degree, the Mavs.

[Warfan]

What is talented?

The players are talented, that's onvious. They have more young talent than every other team in the league. Whether they become great players individually depends on other things, some within their control, some not

Exactly. But Poido says they're the title favorite NEXT season because they have the most talented cast in the league. Which is ludicrous. Im not denying that they have a lot of young talent with potential. But next season you have Kyrie and an unproven rookie. Fast forward a couple years and it might be a different story once they have developed and improved, but right now acting like they have the most talent in the league and that they're the favorites is just laughable.

[Kblaze8855]

They were on track for the playoffs, but the Bynum debacle and other internal issues derailed their season.

Thats the difference between good teams and bad ones. Playoff teams are there because they are good enough to deal with adversity and make it anyway. And not like we are talking a franchise player missing half a season. The Hawks best player missed 50+ games and they made it.

Cavs were a more or less healthy team facing normal NBA season injuries while being young. Its a 33 win team in the east. The #10 team in the east is not good. You arent what you were on track to be....you are what you are.

Good teams maintain a decent level of play. bad teams might have good runs...but they dont maintain it.

The cavs were not good. They were not supposed to be good yet.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

As they should be. Without Lebron this is a playoff team.

4 #1s is simply unprecedented :bowdown:

[ProfessorMurder]

Cavs probably won't even make it out of the East.

These teams are all at least as good as last year:

Indiana
Raps
Bulls
Bullets
Hawks

[poido123]

Exactly. But Poido says they're the title favorite NEXT season because they have the most talented cast in the league. Which is ludicrous. Im not denying that they have a lot of young talent with potential. But next season you have Kyrie and an unproven rookie. Fast forward a couple years and it might be a different story once they have developed and improved, but right now acting like they have the most talent in the league and that they're the favorites is just laughable.


I hold some doubts on the Cavs this year, but I believe it's between them and bulls to make the finals and they could quite possibly lineup against okc.

We all know lebron has Durants number, so I could see them beating okc too.

[poido123]

I
Thats the difference between good teams and bad ones. Playoff teams are there because they are good enough to deal with adversity and make it anyway. And not like we are talking a franchise player missing half a season. The Hawks best player missed 50+ games and they made it.

Cavs were a more or less healthy team facing normal NBA season injuries while being young. Its a 33 win team in the east. The #10 team in the east is not good. You arent what you were on track to be....you are what you are.

Good teams maintain a decent level of play. bad teams might have good runs...but they dont maintain it.

The cavs were not good. They were not supposed to be good yet.


Bynum was cleaning the pipes of a staff members wife, I'd hardly call that a minor distraction. He got released accordingly.

Irving and Waiters behavior was out of line and the coach had no control over the team whatsoever to control them and the Cavs on court focus.

In nearly any other team circumstance, I'd totally with you.

I remember deng making comment to how out of whack the Cavs organization was at the time...

[Warfan]

I hold some doubts on the Cavs this year, but I believe it's between them and bulls to make the finals and they could quite possibly lineup against okc.

We all know lebron has Durants number, so I could see them beating okc too.

Im not gonna act like they have no chance, I mean they have LeBron fukcing james. But I just think it's too early to crown them favorites for the title, especially with how the team is currently constituted and all the question marks on the team; wiggins, Bennett, Blatt etc. I don't think they get too the finals next season (still possible), but even if they do I strongly doubt they beat the western conf champ, even if he has KD's number...

[chips93]

Assuming we have have a healthy rose, you think we are an inferior team to the pacers who we routinely beat in the playoffs when rose was Healthy?

i dont think we can assume rose will be healthy. and evn when he was 'healthy' last year, he still wasnt good

im rooting for rose to get back to mvp form, but his future is far from certain

also, the pacers have improved a lot since you guys beat them in the playoffs

[poido123]

i dont think we can assume rose will be healthy. and evn when he was 'healthy' last year, he still wasnt good

im rooting for rose to get back to mvp form, but his future is far from certain

also, the pacers have improved a lot since you guys beat them in the playoffs


I seem to have a lot more faith in rose returning to normal than many ISH members, but as someone who follows the bulls fairly closely, I have more optimism.

His two injuries are unrelated, the original injury should be fully healed now a and the second one was less detrimental and to the other leg.

Unless he re injures the original injury, I think I like his chances of being ok.

[NumberSix]

Assuming we have have a healthy rose, you think we are an inferior team to the pacers who we routinely beat in the playoffs when rose was Healthy?
I've never actually thought Rose was that big of a deal to begin with. I can see him being super effective now with Gasol in the line up though. He's never played with a big man with that kind of offensive skill. That could do miracles for Rose's game.

The biggest thing though is I think Thibs needs to shift the balance a little away from defense and towards offense. Not a huge shift, but he's gotta stop grinding his guys into dust in the regular season.

[ArbitraryWater]

Clearly they shouldn't be favorites.. that makes zero sense.

Adding rookie Wiggins to a 33 win team + LeBron = Favorites? Please.

If they get Love they're the favorites out of the East, though.

[Spurs5Rings2014]

Cavs have a team good enough to beat the Spurs

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: