Don't compare Messi to Zizou anymore

[Mr.Kite]

Messi was a no show

[LJJ]

Messi is miles and miles ahead of Zizou.

[Mr.Kite]

Messi is miles and miles ahead of Zizou.

No.

[Jasi]

Messi is miles and miles ahead of Zizou.

This.

At the same time, the gap between him and Maradona got larger tonight.

[CJ Mustard]

Messi is miles and miles ahead of Zizou.
Except he's not even close. Zidane's performance in the '06 world cup at the end of his career >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Messi's overrated performance this year.

[Mr.Kite]

Except he's not even close. Zidane's performance in the '06 world cup at the end of his career >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Messi's overrated performance this year.

Yup...Messi and his Lebron james like trophy

[ThePhantomCreep]

Except he's not even close. Zidane's performance in the '06 world cup at the end of his career >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Messi's overrated performance this year.

That's one tournament though. At club level it isn't close, Messi is easily better.

[That_Admiral]

Zidane is still well ahead, but messi still has a couple of wc's to show up.

[RagaZ]

Zidane is still well ahead, but messi still has a couple of wc's to show up.
Really? He looks to decline already. 27 years old.

[yobore]

That's one tournament though. At club level it isn't close, Messi is easily better.
Messi is the better player IMO but nowhere near Zidane when it comes to WCs.

Both in 1998 and 2006 Zidane got red cards but still >> Messi in this one. 2002 is pretty telling. France pretty much had the same core as 98 and 06 (except no Zidane for 2 games and rushed him back for the third) and they didn't score a goal.

[That_Admiral]

Really? He looks to decline already. 27 years old.
even at 31, i think he can still do something, but that's just my opinion haha

[That_Admiral]

Messi is the better player IMO but nowhere near Zidane when it comes to WCs.

Both in 1998 and 2006 Zidane got red cards but still >> Messi in this one. 2002 is pretty telling. France pretty much had the same core as 98 and 06 (except no Zidane for 2 games and rushed him back for the third) and they didn't score a goal.
I guess that's where i would say zidane is a better player, he's been the better player on the bigger stage

[alenleomessi]

no one on this argentina's team except messi would even sniff a starting spot for that 98 france team.. they were loaded

[creepingdeath]

no one on this argentina's team except messi would even sniff a starting spot for that 98 france team.. they were loaded
While that's true, Zizou was still a more clutch and dominant leader than Messi.

[ThePhantomCreep]

I guess that's where i would say zidane is a better player, he's been the better player on the bigger stage

Champions League is a pretty big stage and Messi annihilates Zidane there.

Zidane had a great 2006 World Cup (mediocre in 1998 outside of the final). Not enough to overtake Messi.

[RagaZ]

no one on this argentina's team except messi would even sniff a starting spot for that 98 france team.. they were loaded
You are going to use this excuse non stop.

In 2010 it was the manager. Now it's the squad. What's next?

[alenleomessi]

While that's true, Zizou was still a more clutch and dominant leader than Messi.
ehh.. winning goals in all group stage matches.. game winning assist in 1/8.. made the penalty in the 1/2.. played much deeper in the knockout stage due to dimaria's injury so there is your reason for lack of goals.. could have had few assists if his teammates werent shit though


france 98 knockout stage: extra time Blanc goal against paraguay, win on penalties against italy, comeback win against croatia in 1/2 thuram scored both goals.. sure he had a solid WC final but wouldnt be there if he didnt have such great teammates.. for argentina is the opposite.. they probably wouldnt made it out of the group if it wasnt for messi.. spot the difference?

[RagaZ]

Bosnia, Iran, Nigeria.

[creepingdeath]

ehh.. winning goals in all group stage matches.. game winning assist in 1/8.. made the penalty in the 1/2.. played much deeper in the knockout stage due to dimaria's injury so there is your reason for lack of goals.. could have had few assists if his teammates werent shit though


france 98 knockout stage: extra time Blanc goal against paraguay, win on penalties against italy, comeback win against croatia in 1/2 thuram scored both goals.. sure he had a solid WC final but wouldnt be there if he didnt have such great teammates.. for argentina is the opposite.. they probably wouldnt made it out of the group if it wasnt for messi.. spot the difference?
We're absolutely on the same page regarding the gap between their respective national teams, no argument from me. However, the opposite is true when you compare many of Zizou's club teams to Messi's (especially when you factor in their competition).

Also, as a European guy you should know that football goes beyond mere statistics. And doing the eye test I don't know how comparing Zizou's 98 WC to Messi's performance in this WC is somehow refuting my statement.. in particular since Zizou had many more great tournaments for France.

Oh, and didn't you argue for Neuer being the GOAT goalie? Sorry, but that alone makes me reluctant to take you seriously in any football discussion...

[brownmamba00]

Champions League is a pretty big stage and Messi annihilates Zidane there.


bullshit

Messi won the CL 3 times (didn't even play in the final back in '06), Zidane won once and made the finals with Juve one time.
And the one time he won it was iconic (that goal :bowdown: )

finished runner-up with Bordeaux in the Uefa cup and won the super cup twice with 2 different teams so I don't see how Messi annihilates ZZ in international club football...

count all his International success with all that and he blows Messi out of the water.

peeps like to point out to Zidane's 'stacked' teams for his success in '98 '00 and '06 but how about Messi's stacked midfield at Barca for his 2 CL cups...that midfield was the reason Spain was so successful in the '10s...ZZ>Messi all day

[ThePhantomCreep]

bullshit

Messi won the CL 3 times (didn't even play in the final back in '06), Zidane won once and made the finals with Juve one time.
And the one time he won it was iconic (that goal :bowdown: )

finished runner-up with Bordeaux in the Uefa cup and won the super cup twice with 2 different teams so I don't see how Messi annihilates ZZ in international club football...

count all his International success with all that and he blows Messi out of the water.

peeps like to point out to Zidane's 'stacked' teams for his success in '98 '00 and '06 but how about Messi's stacked midfield at Barca for his 2 CL cups...that midfield was the reason Spain was so successful in the '10s...ZZ>Messi all day

You're just rattling off trophies won :facepalm How was Zidane's individual dominance on those Real Madrid and Juventus sides? I'll answer--nowhere near Messi's level.

Messi is arguably the GOAT champions league player. Yeah, his World Cup was disappointing, but he's above Zidane period.

[ThePhantomCreep]

Having a World Cup on your resume is a nice thing to have, but it isn't end-all be-all. Otherwise Rivaldo > Zidane


Rivaldo _____________________Zidane

14 games ____________________15 games
9 goals_______________________5 goals
4 assists______________________2 assists

[RagaZ]

People complain about Messi's teammates, but it wasnt their fault that Messi missed that sitter in the 2nd half.

[brownmamba00]

You're just rattling off trophies won :facepalm How was Zidane's individual dominance on those Real Madrid and Juventus sides? I'll answer--nowhere near Messi's level.

Messi is arguably the GOAT champions league player. Yeah, his World Cup was disappointing, but he's above Zidane period.
There is more to it than just goalscoring stats...I always viewed Zizou as a player that stepped up when his team needed him the most, a real leader and Zidane could really control a game at the highest level without him even scoring(remember that brazil game in '06)...he was the definition of a playmaker.

[AirTupac]

Bosnia, Iran, Nigeria.

Needed an own goal to beat Bosnia

Beat Iran in the 91st minute with Messi magic

and went out in a brawl with Nigeria.

[Burgz V2]

Messi is miles and miles ahead of Zizou.

:biggums:

i dont know how anyone can even argue this.

[RagaZ]

Needed an own goal to beat Bosnia

Beat Iran in the 91st minute with Messi magic

and went out in a brawl with Nigeria.
3 bad teams.

[9erempiree]

Nobody is comparing Messi to Zidane.

Guys that walk around an entire match do not belong in the same sentence as guys that give their hearts.

[Mr. Jabbar]

zidane is twice the player messi will ever be

[Andrei89]

Zizou is the GOAT. Dont put him in the same sentence as Messi.

[Jasi]

At this point Messi should be compared to players in the range from Cruijff (upper threshold) to Platini (lower threshold).
Zidane is a tier below.

[LBJ4MVP23]

So a handful of games defines his entire year? His club games never happened?
Soccer is such a team sport, its insane. He didnt play amazing today, but it doesnt lessen what he did all year and has done the past several years.

He is amongst the greats of all time, maybe not the best, but definitely amongst them.

[alenleomessi]

messi was never compared to zidane in the first place.. he has been compared to maradona and pele since like 5-6 years ago.. and always will be.. because he is right there.. top 3 at least.

[creepingdeath]

messi was never compared to zidane in the first place.. he has been compared to maradona and pele since like 5-6 years ago.. and always will be.. because he is right there.. top 3 at least.
I bet 5-6 years ago, you didn't even have access to La Liga games...

[Gr]

He's already above Zidane. Zidane mythology is something else. :oldlol:

[alenleomessi]

I bet 5-6 years ago, you didn't even have access to La Liga games...
hey look, another euro that lives in the US and tries to use his newfound american ignorance on europeans.. probably never watched kahn in his prime.. but the avy is cool and you are german so why not use it eh

[creepingdeath]

hey look, another euro that lives in the US and tries to use his newfound american ignorance on europeans.. probably never watched kahn in his prime.. but the avy is cool and you are german so why not use it eh
:coleman:
I've actually been back from the States since May 2013. Not that it matters, though. I'll give you an A for trying to distract from the topic at hand.

I have indeed seen prime Kahn (and Buffon, Schmeichel....). Unlike you, obviously, since you actually believe Neuer is the GOAT goalie.

[alenleomessi]

:coleman:
I've actually been back from the States since May 2013. Not that it matters, though. I'll give you an A for trying to distract from the topic at hand.

I have indeed seen prime Kahn (and Buffon, Schmeichel....). Unlike you, obviously, since you actually believe Neuer is the GOAT goalie.
you are basically telling me i didnt have a TV 5-6 years ago because i live in a poor country.. thats trying to distract from the topic..

what was the topic again? messi and zidane? there is no topic here, no discussion between those two.. only trolls and messi haters would think there is..

and dont see whats wrong with saying neuer is the greatest.. its not really that crazy when you look at what he has done the last 4 years

[creepingdeath]

you are basically telling me i didnt have a TV 5-6 years ago because i live in a poor country.. thats trying to distract from the topic..

what was the topic again? messi and zidane? there is no topic here, no discussion between those two.. only trolls and messi haters would think there is..

and dont see whats wrong with saying neuer is the greatest.. its not really that crazy when you look at what he has done the last 4 years
No, I was saying that there's no way that you have had access to La Liga games 5-6 years ago, because it is preposterous to say that Messi had been in the discussion for top 3 GOAT back then.

I'm not a Messi hater at all.. Zizou and him are completely different players, so a direct comparison is extremely difficult. Cross-era comparisons are hard as it is, even more so when it comes to different positions. However, having watched Zizou back in the days, I believe he was the more impactful player. It's all good, mate. :cheers:

It's crazy to say that Neuer is the greatest because he simply is not good enough. He might get the resume regarding titles (I suppose that's what you are getting at), but as a player, he's just not on the level of, say, a Buffon or Kahn, or Schmeichel even.

[Gr]

No, I was saying that there's no way that you have had access to La Liga games 5-6 years ago, because it is preposterous to say that Messi had been in the discussion for top 3 GOAT back then.

I'm not a Messi hater at all.. Zizou and him are completely different players, so a direct comparison is extremely difficult. Cross-era comparisons are hard as it is, even more so when it comes to different positions. However, having watched Zizou back in the days, I believe he was the more impactful player. It's all good, mate. :cheers:

It's crazy to say that Neuer is the greatest because he simply is not good enough. He might get the resume regarding titles (I suppose that's what you are getting at), but as a player, he's just not on the level of, say, a Buffon or Kahn, or Schmeichel even.

That's just delusional. Neuer is better than any of them at the same age. He makes mistakes every now and then, but almost always when it's unimportant. His last 1 1/2 have been better than anything I've ever seen from a goal keeper. He steps up in the big games when it matters, prevents more goal scoring opportunities from even occuring than any other goal keeper in history. He's also a beast on the line and in the air (claiming corners, etc.). What's best about him though is that he's cold as ice. He could've thrown the ball into his own goal yesterday but played on as though nothing had happened, completely unaffected. Kahn, for example, was much less mentally stable.

Neuer is on his way to becoming the GOAT. I've NEVER seen better. IMO, he already passed Kahn, and then next up is Buffon, Yashin, Schmeichel. And I've seen them all many, many times except for Yashin. I'm a big Oliver Kahn fan too.

[9erempiree]

Comical that people think Neuer is GOAT when they have their very own Kahn. People like to say their generation is GOAT which is quite sad.

I guess we must live in the best era, GOAT tennis player, GOAT basketball and GOAT soccer players.:facepalm

[RagaZ]

[QUOTE=Gr

[Gr]

Comical that people think Neuer is GOAT when they have their very own Kahn. People like to say their generation is GOAT which is quite sad.

I guess we must live in the best era, GOAT tennis player, GOAT basketball and GOAT soccer players.:facepalm

I don't think he's GOAT yet. But if he keeps what he's doing right now up for a few more years, then I don't see how he isn't. I grew up watching Oliver Kahn, btw.

I also believe that Wilt Chamberlain is the GOAT basketball player. What are you going to make up now?

[9erempiree]

Neuer also got punked like a little B by Real Madrid.

[Gr]

http://intothetopcorner.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/ucl-final-12.jpg

So, not saving a bullet header from Drogba at close range counts as a mistake? He almost got it too.

[pastis]

how overrated maradona is. messi scored more goals and gave more assists than maradona did on the national team - and messi has stll 4-6 years to play. messi has won 4x times the ballon dor as the worlds best player, 3x times the cl. messi is clearly better than maradona.


i put messi right behind zidane and beckenbauer at #3

[Gr]

I'm done posting to idiots like RagaZ and 9erempire. I'm not letting myself get dragged down to their level any more.

[9erempiree]

[QUOTE=Gr

[9erempiree]

[QUOTE=Gr

[Jasi]

Neuer is as solid as it gets, but he needs to rack up some sheer miracles before entering the GOAT conversation

[dunksby]

Di Maria, Aguero, Lavezzi, Higuain, Mascherano, Zabaleta and Romero seem like enough help to me.

[pastis]

Neuer is as solid as it gets, but he needs to rack up some sheer miracles before entering the GOAT conversation

well, if he can play on the level he has shown past 2 years for another 2-4 years, he will be surely be #1 of all time. kahn, neuer, k

[9erempiree]

Neuer is as solid as it gets, but he needs to rack up some sheer miracles before entering the GOAT conversation

Thank you for being level-headed on here.

[dunksby]

Neuer is as solid as it gets, but he needs to rack up some sheer miracles before entering the GOAT conversation
He did have a few against France, some against Brazil that got overshadowed by the scoreline. He did have a couple of crazy saves in the finals as well. Now considering what he has done in Bayern I say he is well on his way. I have Kahn as GOAT keeper but Neurer has a distinct advantage in athleticism and physique while lacking in charisma and leadership compared to Kahn. Taking his age into consideration (28), barring serious injuries he could be considered GOAT keeper by the time he retires.

[Gr]

He did have a few against France, some against Brazil that got overshadowed by the scoreline. He did have a couple of crazy saves in the finals as well. Now considering what he has done in Bayern I say he is well on his way. I have Kahn as GOAT keeper but Neurer has a distinct advantage in athleticism and physique while lacking in charisma and leadership compared to Kahn. Taking his age into consideration (28), barring serious injuries he could be considered GOAT keeper by the time he retires.

I don't see that. He's just a different type of leader. He doesn't go as nuts as Kahn when there is something he doesn't like, but he talks to his defense all game long, is very good at organizing it (as also evident by turning Schalke into the best defensive team in the Bundesliga except for 1 season where they were 2nd best), takes responsibility (eagerly stepped up to take a penalty against Chelsea when the other players were choking), and is cold as ice no matter what happens. Like I said, with him I get the feeling he could've thrown the ball into his own net yesterday and played on completely unaffected by it.

[creepingdeath]

[QUOTE=Gr

[alenleomessi]

Di Maria, Aguero, Lavezzi, Higuain, Mascherano, Zabaleta and Romero seem like enough help to me.
but the first four were injured or didnt show up at all.. you cant expect messi to take on 4-5 defenders all the time.. we saw what happened yesterday when they tried to put hummels one on one on him.. same with kompany when they played city.. but 4-5 defenders.. all of them big and strong.. its impossible.. they just needed one player to stay healthy and be in form.. either di maria or kun would have been enough to win

[dunksby]

[QUOTE=Gr

[ThePhantomCreep]

how overrated maradona is. messi scored more goals and gave more assists than maradona did on the national team - and messi has stll 4-6 years to play. messi has won 4x times the ballon dor as the worlds best player, 3x times the cl. messi is clearly better than maradona.


i put messi right behind zidane and beckenbauer at #3

If those are your top 2, I shudder to think how bad the rest of your top 10 looks.

Messi deserves to take some shit for his performance in this World Cup (and lol @ him bring better than Maradona) but he's clearly above both those players.

[Jasi]

He did have a few against France, some against Brazil that got overshadowed by the scoreline. He did have a couple of crazy saves in the finals as well. Now considering what he has done in Bayern I say he is well on his way. I have Kahn as GOAT keeper but Neurer has a distinct advantage in athleticism and physique while lacking in charisma and leadership compared to Kahn. Taking his age into consideration (28), barring serious injuries he could be considered GOAT keeper by the time he retires.

Those are good to very good saves in my book.
A miracle (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RipCmexFucY) is another story.

[9erempiree]

On a side note....Neuer has a higher pass completion rate than Messi. I believe he also ran more KM than Messi too.

[RagaZ]

For me, Kahn from 1998-2002 is the the absolute benchmark for any goalkeeper (that I have personally seen. Haven't consciously seen any games in the 80s or prior live). Peak-wise, Kahn is in his own league. Don't you remember what Buffon said about him? "Back in the days, Kahn was better than all of us combined." Regarding their primes, Kahn, Schmeichel and Buffon are on the same level, imo.

Yeah, I agree that Neuer is on his way to becoming the GOAT goalkeeper - because we overemphasize team success. To reiterate, I don't believe he is on par or better even than the three guys I have mentioned above. Like any great player, Neuer has had his blunders in big games, too. Since playing for Bayern, as you said correctly, most of his mistakes have been unimportant. But there weren't many phenomenal signature games, either. To this day, his most memorable game still remains Schalke's CL game against Porto in 2008. Which he kind of blemished because of his mistake against Barca in the next game.
Take this World Cup, for example. He didn't make a single mistake that lead to a goal against Germany, was great at anticipating balls outside the box, solid in the air, stopped all the shots he was supposed to stop. Yet did he make any huge saves that other solid goalies would not have stopped? To be perfectly honest, Weidenfeller had the better season. That is not to say that Weidenfeller is a better keeper (he is on the line, though). Sometimes, you just don't get the opportunity to shine. Was he the best goalie of the tournament? Certainly. But claiming he's the best player of the tournament based on the team's success remains ludicruous.

2011 against Man United even though they lost.

[Gr]

Those are good to very good saves in my book.
A miracle (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RipCmexFucY) is another story.

Are you serious?

Chronologically:

Neuer vs Porto
Neuer vs France (u21)

I could think of plenty more if I took the time.

[alenleomessi]

not trying to get into the kahn-neuer debate but even in his so-called inhuman peak 98-2002, was a bench player in 1998, early group stage exit in 2000, and yeah a great WC in 2002 and he was the reason they got in the final but also the reason they lost and i dont care if he had an injury. a mistake is a mistake.. won and lost a CL final.. same as neuer.. he also got beat 5-1 by england during his peak with owen scoring a hat-trick.. england.
eye-test is important but also the accomplishments that come with it..
keylor navas had an outstanding season and maybe somewhere in some 3rd world country some local goalie did too... but no one cares because that didnt get his team nowhere.

[Andrew Wiggins]

[QUOTE=Gr

[Jasi]

[QUOTE=Gr

[RagaZ]

Banks is the GOAT GK anyway.

"The IFFHS named Banks the second best goalkeeper of the 20th century

[creepingdeath]

[QUOTE=Gr

[Gr]

i know. never have i a seen a player so glorified after his retirement as zidane. great player, yes, but not anywhere near the conversation for top 5 all time let alone GOAT

Relatively speaking with regards to the hype he gets, Zidane is actually an UNDERACHIEVER. He won one Champions League playing for a stacked Juventus and a stacked Real Madrid. France was also stacked as hell, and he wasn't even very good in 1998 minus his final. He scored two headers against Brasil and a volley against Leverkusen, so now he's the GOAT. :lol

[9erempiree]

Like any sport especially soccer, you cannot look at stats. Forget the heat map or those freaking advanced statistics.

Zidane passes on the eye test. Most people, especially on ISH, never seen Zidane play. '06 is 8 years ago. Therefore, too many youngsters will never have seen him play and '06 was one of the most memorable WC from a standpoint of GOAT. He dominated.

[creepingdeath]

Like any sport especially soccer, you cannot look at stats. Forget the heat map or those freaking advanced statistics.

Zidane passes on the eye test. Most people, especially on ISH, never seen Zidane play. '06 is 8 years ago. Therefore, too many youngsters will never have seen him play and '06 was one of the most memorable WC from a standpoint of GOAT. He dominated.
Those European young'uns being put into place by a guy from handegg country. :bowdown:

[Gr]

What does that have to do with the statement that he didn't have any miracle saves in the World cup?

He posted a video of Buffon making a save in a qualifier. :confusedshrug:

Show me a "miracle save" from Kahn in the 2002 World Cup ala what Jasi posted.

Tick tock.

Funny thing, I just watched the entire 2002 World Cup Kahn highlights, and some of the saves he makes Neuer wouldn't even have to make in the first place because of his anticipation and better positioning. Neuer is also more athletic and a little longer, so naturally if Neuer saved an exact shot Kahn saved, they would look less spectacular because he would be at the ball faster and with more of his body.

[Gr]

Please provide a link :cheers:

http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/7-14-2014/K5F0z6.gif

Neuer against Porto. Champions League quarter final.

[Gr]

Those European young'uns being put into place by a guy from handegg country. :bowdown:

:roll:

You're siding with a guy who's basically a baby as a fan of the sport. Didn't he say on ISH that he wants to get into the sport and what teams would be good to support?

:roll:

[9erempiree]

http://i.imgur.com/Ac6eSaX.gif

Will be back with gifs of Real raping Neuer.

[creepingdeath]

[QUOTE=Gr

[ThePhantomCreep]

Like any sport especially soccer, you cannot look at stats. Forget the heat map or those freaking advanced statistics.

Zidane passes on the eye test. Most people, especially on ISH, never seen Zidane play. '06 is 8 years ago. Therefore, too many youngsters will never have seen him play and '06 was one of the most memorable WC from a standpoint of GOAT. He dominated.

Zidane had a foot in the grave by 2006, his peak was in the late-90's, and it wasn't as good as Messi, CR7, Ronaldo Fenomeno, or even Ronaldinho. It just wasn't. He was a great player with a great career, but overall he is overrated.

His performance in that 2006 tournament has since become overrated (3 goals, 1 lousy assist; he's a playmaker right?). If Zidane played Brazil in every match, he'd be the GOAT easily. But he rarely hit those levels for club or country.

Even simple stats like pass completion rate don't make Zidane look good--Xavi and Pirlo blow him clean out of the water on that metric.

[9erempiree]

[QUOTE=Gr

[brownmamba00]

Rustu in '02 deserves a mention

[Gr]

Will be back with moronic out of context bullshit

Fixed.

[9erempiree]

Zidane had a foot in the grave by 2006, his peak was in the late-90's, and it wasn't as good as Messi, CR7, Ronaldo Fenomeno, or even Ronaldinho. It just wasn't. He was a great player with a great career, but overall he is overrated.

His performance in that 2006 tournament has since become overrated (3 goals, 1 lousy assist; he's a playmaker right?). If Zidane played Brazil in every match, he'd be the GOAT easily. But he rarely hit those levels for club or country.

Even simple stats like pass completion rate don't make Zidane look good--Xavi and Pirlo blow him clean out of the water on that metric.

The entire team scored 9 goals all tournament and you want to act like Zidane didn't do his part? The team was struggling to qualify for the tournament and he was asked to come out of retirement. The rest is history.

[Gr]

I engaged the troll again. :facepalm I'm so horrible at ignoring trolls.

[Gr]

The entire team scored 9 goals all tournament and you want to act like Zidane didn't do his part? The team was struggling to qualify for the tournament and he was asked to come out of retirement. The rest is history.

They scored 9 goals in the group stages alone. Learn how to read the results of a football tournament.

[9erempiree]

[QUOTE=Gr

[9erempiree]

[QUOTE=Gr

[Gr]

Oh, I thought it was the 98 World Cup. Everything is mixed up in this thread. So, NVM.

[Jasi]

[QUOTE=Gr

[Brunch@Five]

Messi has become a very lazy player, and it showed in this WC and has become especially detrimental to his impact on games combined with Argentina's lacking creativity in midfield. He is a phenomenal striker, but if he wants to be GOAT-Messi, he needs to get back to his old self and become more of a playmaker again for Argentina. He only had 56 touches in the final (Kroos and Schweinsteiger had 140-150), avoided contact/challenges and thus was basically invisible save for 4 or 5 plays he made. Nowhere to be seen in the last 60 minutes (including extra time). That is not a performance legends are made of, and he hasn't even been dominant in any game before that, not even talking about the WC 2010.
They way that Schweinsteiger played yesterday, Zidane in 2006 in both the final and against Brazil is what legends are made of, imposing their will on the game. Messi was unable to do so yesterday and the whole tournament.

IMO you need to win a WC or be dominant on the pitch in crucial game as Zidane was in 2006 to truly be a GOAT candidate. WC finals are the most important games. They are like game 7s that only take place every 4 years. Messi and his fans must live with him being judged by that performance.

[Gr]

I could pull so many absolutely incredible Manuel Neuer saves out of my hat right now. I'm not even sure which ones to post. :lol

[Gr]

I wish I could find Neuer vs Van Persie 2012 Euro, because it's a direct counter to Kahn vs Donovan.

[creepingdeath]

[QUOTE=Gr

[Brunch@Five]

what seperates Neuer from Kahm clearly are his goal kicks and throws. Neuer right now is changing what it means to be a great goalkeeper. It's like him being the first SG to add 3-point range to his game.

[creepingdeath]

what seperates Neuer from Kahm clearly are his goal kicks and throws. Neuer right now is changing what it means to be a great goalkeeper. It's like him being the first SG to add 3-point range to his game.
Yeah, he is an excellent footballer for a goalie.

Definitely a worthy successor of the Titan. :bowdown:
http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view/829095/manuel-neuer-oliver-kahn-o.gif

Should incorporate more anger into his game, though. :lol
http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view/971775/oliver-kahn-o.gif

[ThePhantomCreep]

The entire team scored 9 goals all tournament and you want to act like Zidane didn't do his part? The team was struggling to qualify for the tournament and he was asked to come out of retirement. The rest is history.

Never said he didn't do his part, but Zidane's performance in that tournament is way overblown, people act like he played every match like he did against Brazil, but that wasn't the case. One assist from your #10 isn't that great.

At club level, he struggled in big matches with Juventus and Madrid, and he never dominated in midfield the way Xavi and Pirlo did at their best. Nobody remembers how uneven he could be as a player, but boy do they remember his wonder goal in the 2002 final. He's the Tim Duncan of soccer players.