How much would LeBron fans undervalue Wiggins to prop up their God

[SupermanOnSteroids]

:confusedshrug:

[J Shuttlesworth]

You're the one who was calling Wiggins a superstar before he's played a game. you are doing the exact opposite of that in hyping him up before we know how he turns out.

You already made the assumption that he'll be better than 2014 wade, who put up 20/5/5 on 54% shooting

[SupermanOnSteroids]

You're the one who was calling Wiggins a superstar before he's played a game. you are doing the exact opposite of that in hyping him up before we know how he turns out.

You already made the assumption that he'll be better than 2014 wade, who put up 20/5/5 on 54% shooting
i said wiggins was going to be better than wade going forward. if you don't think so let us know.

[Rubio2Gasol]

This whole thing is in Limbo now, because the kid probably won't get a chance to develop.

Lebron fans will say he's garbage.

Haters will say Lebron is holding him back.

This will probably be settled when he moves to a new team/gets traded/Bran jumps ship in 2016. Same for Kyrie, same for Bennett.

[SupermanOnSteroids]

i even feel the same way. i think lebron's presence sucks the life out of his costars. lets see how well wade and bosh do next year.

[J Shuttlesworth]

i even feel the same way. i think lebron's presence sucks the life out of his costars. lets see how well wade and bosh do next year.
Wade and Bosh put up record number FG% the last 4 years :coleman:

[SupermanOnSteroids]

so would you judge wiggins on his FG% or his PPG?

[Rubio2Gasol]

Wade and Bosh put up record number FG% the last 4 years :coleman:

If there was ever evidence FG% doesn't mean shit, it's this.

[J Shuttlesworth]

If there was ever evidence FG% doesn't mean shit, it's this.
They put up 20 pts and 17 pts as a 2nd/3rd option. Most teams would kill to have those two as a 2nd/3rd option.

How about this stat? They each have 2 more rings than they had before LeBron joined

[HiphopRelated]

Wade and Bosh put up record number FG% the last 4 years :coleman:
So did Lebron, we'll see how much attention his new cast attracts

[Rubio2Gasol]

I'm not disputing that they were great 2nd and 3rd options.

I'm simply saying their games deteriorated as a direct result of playing next to Bron, or, moreso, playing without a competent point guard to take the Ball out of Bron's hands.

.

[SupermanOnSteroids]

They put up 20 pts and 17 pts as a 2nd/3rd option. Most teams would kill to have those two as a 2nd/3rd option.

How about this stat? They each have 2 more rings than they had before LeBron joined
But yet again you argue against people arguing that Heat were loaded and lost to a team whose Final MVP had a season average of 13 PPG but won the Finals MVP playing against the GOAT.

[dubeta]

Wiggins is a defender, so a tony allen type dude with better athleticism

[SupermanOnSteroids]

Wiggins is a defender, so a tony allen type dude with better athleticism
so a 9.0/3.8/1.7 guy with better athleticism? thats wiggins?

[plowking]

He'll still put up 15ppg in his rookie season and will more than likely win ROY.

If anyone is going to get shunned out and get away from Cleveland, it's Kyrie. I'm telling you. Wiggins is someone who can run the floor, collapse the defense, and lock down on the defensive end, just like Bron. Then you have Kyrie... The point position in a Lebron James run team, isn't a great defender, not the most athletic point guard, or strong finisher at the rim.

Bron's just replaced Wade with a younger, springier, better defensive version, who will more than likely be a 25ppg player along side Bron, just like Wade was in that first season with the Heat.

Wiggins will more than likely go on to have a Kobe type career. Win a few rings with Bron first, then go off on his own, or have Bron retire, take over the team, and win some as the best player. The kid is going to be the best in the league at one point. It's inevitable.

[J Shuttlesworth]

But yet again you argue against people arguing that Heat were loaded and lost to a team whose Final MVP had a season average of 13 PPG but won the Finals MVP playing against the GOAT.
The Spurs were way more loaded than the Heat, and Wade has a really really bad series. I bet Wiggins will be > 2014 finals Wade, but not 2014 season or first 3 rounds Wade.

don't get me wrong though. I hope you're right. Maybe Wiggins will be the player I'll be stanning once LeBron retires :bowdown:

[navy]

He'll still put up 15ppg in his rookie season and will more than likely win ROY.

:biggums:
Lebron
Kyrie
Waiters

Assumed scoring pecking order. 15 isnt likely.


He has no chance for rookie of the year with Lebron and Kyrie around. :confusedshrug:

[SupermanOnSteroids]

The Spurs were way more loaded than the Heat, and Wade has a really really bad series. I bet Wiggins will be > 2014 finals Wade, but not 2014 season or first 3 rounds Wade.

don't get me wrong though. I hope you're right. Maybe Wiggins will be the player I'll be stanning once LeBron retires :bowdown:
way to edit before I could get your words in quote.

but but but he's an unproven rookie and has no impact on LeBron leaving a loaded Heat team for Cleveland.

[plowking]

:biggums:
Lebron
Kyrie
Waiters

Assumed scoring pecking order. 15 isnt likely.


He has no chance for rookie of the year with Lebron and Kyrie around. :confusedshrug:

I'm telling you right now that Kyrie is the one that gets shunted.

Wiggins is getting 6ppg just off run outs and transition on that team. Blatt knows what he's doing. He's not going to shunt out Wiggins with infinite potential and talent to cater to lesser players.

[J Shuttlesworth]

way to edit before I could get your words in quote.

but but but he's an unproven rookie and has no impact on LeBron leaving a loaded Heat team for Cleveland.
When did I say he has no impact on LeBron's decision?

That doesn't mean he's not an unproven rookie. He has value as an unproven rookie and could even land them Kevin Love.

And I didn't edit the post man... not sure what you're talking about.

[navy]

I'm telling you right now that Kyrie is the one that gets shunted.

Wiggins is getting 6ppg just off run outs and transition on that team. Blatt knows what he's doing. He's not going to shunt out Wiggins with infinite potential and talent to cater to lesser players.
Im strictly talking about the first year or two. If Lebron is as good as he is hyped to be and the Cavs make some moves, Wiggins may very well have games were he doesnt play meaningful minutes or minutes at all.

[RedBlackAttack]

Im strictly talking about the first year or two. If Lebron is as good as he is hyped to be and the Cavs make some moves, Wiggins may very well have games were he doesnt play meaningful minutes or minutes at all.
Disagree.

Wiggins will be incredibly valuable off the jump just based on his defensive instincts. People are underestimating just how devastating the combination of Wiggins and LeBron have the potential to be out on the wings, especially when it gets to be playoff time and the game slows down.

They will have teams scrambling, along with creating run-out situations off of turnovers/blocks. It's just Summer League, but god damn does Wiggins get up quickly to alter/block shots. And, he's just starting to get his legs under him.

That's really where he'll have his biggest impact immediately. With those two and Varejao's mobility, they could institute that hedging/trapping defense that made Miami so scary to play against.

[plowking]

Im strictly talking about the first year or two. If Lebron is as good as he is hyped to be and the Cavs make some moves, Wiggins may very well have games were he doesnt play meaningful minutes or minutes at all.

:oldlol:

Do you seriously believe that? The number 1 pick just sits on the bench, doesn't get any minutes, and they favor "experience" over talent?

They drafted Andrew Wiggins, not Reggie Evans.

[plowking]

Disagree.

Wiggins will be incredibly valuable off the jump just based on his defensive instincts. People are underestimating just ho devastating the combination of Wiggins and LeBron have the potential to be out on the wings, especially when it gets to be playoff time and the game slows down.

They will have teams scrambling, along with creating run-out situations off of turnovers/blocks. It's just Summer League, but god damn does Wiggins get up quickly to alter/block shots. And, he's just starting to get his legs under him.

Exactly. Bron with the signing has instantly created a better defensive, more lethal transition pairing than the one he had in Miami, which is one of the best we've seen all time in regards to NBA history.

There are going to be some epic, epic oops thrown on the Cleveland fast break, and Bron might not even have the top 2 or 3 dunks in the reel.

[J Shuttlesworth]

Exactly. Bron with the signing has instantly created a better defensive, more lethal transition pairing than the one he had in Miami, which is one of the best we've seen all time in regards to NBA history.

There are going to be some epic, epic oops thrown on the Cleveland fast break, and Bron might not even have the top 2 or 3 dunks in the reel.
:applause: God I hope this is how it ends up being

plow who do you think will be a better player in 2015? Wade, or Wiggins?

[SupermanOnSteroids]

When did I say he has no impact on LeBron's decision?

That doesn't mean he's not an unproven rookie. He has value as an unproven rookie and could even land them Kevin Love.

And I didn't edit the post man... not sure what you're talking about.
so why would you say that Lebron didn't ditch the Heat for a better opportunity to ring chase elsewhere. I'm pretty sure thats where you and I differ in opinion.

[navy]

Disagree.

Wiggins will be incredibly valuable off the jump just based on his defensive instincts. People are underestimating just how devastating the combination of Wiggins and LeBron have the potential to be out on the wings, especially when it gets to be playoff time and the game slows down.

They will have teams scrambling, along with creating run-out situations off of turnovers/blocks. It's just Summer League, but god damn does Wiggins get up quickly to alter/block shots. And, he's just starting to get his legs under him.

That's really where he'll have his biggest impact immediately. With those two and Varejao's mobility, they could institute that hedging/trapping defense that made Miami so scary to play against.

Rookies are rarely up to par defensively. And he will get the shaft from the referees. We'll see. If the Cavs get Mike Miller and Ray Allen and another legitimate scorer, man Im telling you there will be little room for Wiggins unless Blatt makes a forceful attempt to play him.

[tmacattack33]

He'll still put up 15ppg in his rookie season and will more than likely win ROY.

If anyone is going to get shunned out and get away from Cleveland, it's Kyrie. I'm telling you. Wiggins is someone who can run the floor, collapse the defense, and lock down on the defensive end, just like Bron. Then you have Kyrie... The point position in a Lebron James run team, isn't a great defender, not the most athletic point guard, or strong finisher at the rim.

Bron's just replaced Wade with a younger, springier, better defensive version, who will more than likely be a 25ppg player along side Bron, just like Wade was in that first season with the Heat.

Wiggins will more than likely go on to have a Kobe type career. Win a few rings with Bron first, then go off on his own, or have Bron retire, take over the team, and win some as the best player. The kid is going to be the best in the league at one point. It's inevitable.

:biggums:

[navy]

:oldlol:

Do you seriously believe that? The number 1 pick just sits on the bench, doesn't get any minutes, and they favor "experience" over talent?

They drafted Andrew Wiggins, not Reggie Evans.

Wiggins is raw. Including his defense. Yes, I can see him struggling his first two/three years on a team that isnt playing for lottery picks. :confusedshrug:

[SupermanOnSteroids]

Wiggins is raw. Including his defense. Yes, I can see him struggling his first two/three years on a team that isnt playing for lottery picks. :confusedshrug:
quoted

the number 1 pick on one of the most loaded drafts in years is going to struggle his first 2-3 years in the league.

[navy]

quoted

the number 1 pick on one of the most loaded drafts in years is going to struggle his first 2-3 years in the league.

Alright. I'll stand by it.

Should be mentioned he probably would have went 3 outside of embiids injury.

[J Shuttlesworth]

so why would you say that Lebron didn't ditch the Heat for a better opportunity to ring chase elsewhere. I'm pretty sure thats where you and I differ in opinion.
Well let's consider a different scenario. Obviously, we know that him being from Cleveland has a lot to do with it. If that wasn't a main reason, then other free agents like Melo would have had their agents make a call for Cleveland, or Kevin Love would have asked for a trade there. Do you disagree with that?

Let's say LeBron was from Houston, didn't win as a rocket, went to the Heat and won 2. Now this year, he has his free agency. Do you really think he would have chosen a market like Cleveland over a franchise like the Rockets if he was from a different hometown? Consider the same exact scenario for the Mavs, Suns, Warriors, etc. All of those teams would be better contenders with LeBron than the Cavs would, IMO. If he was from Golden State, I'm sure he'd rather play with proven talent like Curry/Thompson/Lee opposed to a guy like Wiggins who we hope will be great, but have yet to see it.

[SupermanOnSteroids]

never said Lebron being from Celv had nothing to do with it. Always said that if Cleveland wasn't ripe he wouldn't have chosen them. (25% home 75% assets). Thats where you came in and started dragging Wiggins through the mud.

[plowking]

:applause: God I hope this is how it ends up being

plow who do you think will be a better player in 2015? Wade, or Wiggins?

Wade will, comfortably.

He'll put up 23-24ppg and have one of his better seasons in a while. I think we'll see him shoot a lot more 3's.

I think by his 3rd year, Wiggins is well and truly better than Wade.

[J Shuttlesworth]

never said Lebron being from Celv had nothing to do with it. Always said that if Cleveland wasn't ripe he wouldn't have chosen them. (25% home 75% assets). Thats where you came in and started dragging Wiggins through the mud.
First of all, I never dragged Wiggins through the mud. All I've said is we don't know how he'll perform. Lots of things can make a #1 pick underwhelming, including injuries. I hope he's great, and i hope he is better than Wade.

I don't care about the 25/75 number, but if it's a huge free agency destination, why weren't other guys seriously considering it?

Because there were much better free agency options before LeBron went there. I agree that if Cleveland still had no talent, he wouldn't go there. I think for 2015, Miami w/ LeBron would easily be a better contender than the Cavs w/ LeBron, but it doesn't really matter because neither of those teams would win the title anyway.

[LBJFTW]

Disagree.

Wiggins will be incredibly valuable off the jump just based on his defensive instincts. People are underestimating just how devastating the combination of Wiggins and LeBron have the potential to be out on the wings, especially when it gets to be playoff time and the game slows down.

They will have teams scrambling, along with creating run-out situations off of turnovers/blocks. It's just Summer League, but god damn does Wiggins get up quickly to alter/block shots. And, he's just starting to get his legs under him.

That's really where he'll have his biggest impact immediately. With those two and Varejao's mobility, they could institute that hedging/trapping defense that made Miami so scary to play against.

This is the Phoenix suns run and gun offence all over again. Teams will be gassed by the middle of the 3rd qtr, and Cavs will be still running. The entire starting 5 will be pushing it full tempo. Run... Run... Run...

[J Shuttlesworth]

Wade will, comfortably.

He'll put up 23-24ppg and have one of his better seasons in a while. I think we'll see him shoot a lot more 3's.

I think by his 3rd year, Wiggins is well and truly better than Wade.
I agree with this. For the record, OP has been claiming that Wiggins will better than Wade for the next couple years... I don't see it.

[SupermanOnSteroids]

First of all, I never dragged Wiggins through the mud. All I've said is we don't know how he'll perform. Lots of things can make a #1 pick underwhelming, including injuries. I hope he's great, and i hope he is better than Wade.

I don't care about the 25/75 number, but if it's a huge free agency destination, why weren't other guys seriously considering it?

Because there were much better free agency options before LeBron went there. I agree that if Cleveland still had no talent, he wouldn't go there. I think for 2015, Miami w/ LeBron would easily be a better contender than the Cavs w/ LeBron, but it doesn't really matter because neither of those teams would win the title anyway.
so do you agree that he IS an asset that Lebron would have considered when chosing a new team?

edit: just a couple of days ago you were completely sold that Lebron WENT HOME and that is that. Now you're admitting that talent had something to do with it.

Tell us, did Lebron ditch his team to go to a better situation or not?

[J Shuttlesworth]

so do you agree that he IS an asset that Lebron would have considered when chosing a new team?
Yes, for 2 main reasons:

1. The potential for Wiggins to be a great player
2. The potential for trading for a guy like Love

A #1 pick is a huge asset to have.

That doesn't mean that it makes Cleveland a better destination to get rings than Miami. If he really wanted rings, he'd have gone to a team like Rockets/Mavs/Bulls, or stayed on the Heat. He's basically giving up a year of his prime where he could be winning a ring to go back home.

I honestly think he should've done a 1 year with Miami so he can see how Wiggins turns out.

[J Shuttlesworth]

Tell us, did Lebron ditch his team to go to a better situation or not?
It's kind of a gamble. We don't know the answer to this until we see Wiggins play, or if we see Wiggins traded for Love. I see it as a situation where he will be able to rest more and save his legs, but not necessarily win more rings instantly. it's STILL cleveland after all.

[GODbe]

The kid is going to be the best in the league at one point. It's inevitable.
http://cosbysweaters.nextimpulsemedia.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/facepalm.gif

[SupermanOnSteroids]

Yes, for 2 main reasons:

1. The potential for Wiggins to be a great player
2. The potential for trading for a guy like Love

A #1 pick is a huge asset to have.

That doesn't mean that it makes Cleveland a better destination to get rings than Miami. If he really wanted rings, he'd have gone to a team like Rockets/Mavs/Bulls, or stayed on the Heat. He's basically giving up a year of his prime where he could be winning a ring to go back home.

I honestly think he should've done a 1 year with Miami so he can see how Wiggins turns out.
He jumped to the better situation and got all the publicity her wanted.

[J Shuttlesworth]

Then why do you argue when I say Lebron is a quitter?
How does that make him a quitter? The fact that he left the Heat for a lesser contender? I'd say that means he has balls, more than he's quitting. Him leaving a super stacked team (as you called it) is akin to Kobe getting Shaq kicked off his team

[J Shuttlesworth]

He jumped to the better situation and got all the publicity her wanted.
that situation will be better in 2-3 years, but he's still giving up a year of his prime where he could potentially win a ring to go home. That's a fact

[SupermanOnSteroids]

Just in case if you're delusional mind doesn't comprehend the consequenses of Lebron joining the Cavs, here's what Vegas has to say:

http://ftw.usatoday.com/2014/07/lebron-james-cleveland-cavliers-nba-favorites-2015-odds-finals

conclusion, pretty much anyone with an unbiased brain can see, Lebron chose the better situation for himself. ie bailed on the Heat at the first sign of trouble.

You really think wade and bosh and josh freaking mcrobers could pull him ahead of the Spurs. I think he knew.

[J Shuttlesworth]

Just in case if you're delusional mind doesn't comprehend the consequenses of Lebron joining the Cavs, here's what Vegas has to say:

http://ftw.usatoday.com/2014/07/lebron-james-cleveland-cavliers-nba-favorites-2015-odds-finals

conclusion, pretty much anyone with an unbiased brain can see, Lebron chose the better situation for himself. ie bailed on the Heat at the first sign of trouble.
dude honestly... I've been considering putting some money up against the Cavs :lol I've never bet money on sports though and don't want to get in the habit, but there's no way the Cavs beat the best team in the West this year, assuming they even make the finals.

So if you're so confident in the Cavs, let's see you put $1000 towards them

[J Shuttlesworth]

And FYI, LeBron is the main reason Cavs odds jumped so high, not just because of Wiggins :coleman:

[tmacattack33]

quoted

the number 1 pick on one of the most loaded drafts in years is going to struggle his first 2-3 years in the league.

Yes, this (that he may not look so good, especially on a good team - as opposed to a lottery team, which most number one picks play for) is a big possibility.

Especially since he is a 1-and-done and is only 19.

[navy]

Yes, this is a big possibility.

Especially since he is a 1-and-done and is only 19.
Forgot about his age. 3-4 years.

[buddha]

Wade > Wiggins... you kids are retarded.

Wade will average 25 and 6 this year, book it.

Wiggins will be lucky to average 16 and 2 playing with LeBron and Kyrie unless Dion gets traded then I could see him maybe hitting 19 or 20 if LeBron continues to defer.

[PleezeBelieve]

Wiggins fanbois out tonight. :roll:

In two Sumner league games:

10-29 1 assist 33% shooting 20% from 3

[PleezeBelieve]

:roll: @ the thought of a Canadian ever being the best player in the league. You dudes kill me. The unwarranted hyping of this guy will fuel me for many many more threads.

Guy can't shoot... can't pass.. can't dribble.

Future GOAT :oldlol:

[Smoke117]

How can you undervalue someone who hasn't done a damn thing? Only an idiot would prioritize Wiggins over Lebron...

[Kingwillball]

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/eye-on-basketball/24619603/video-cavs-andrew-wiggins-is-a-pregame-contortionist-dunker

[#number6ix#]

Wiggins has bust written all over him... Inconsistent jumper, weak handles, can't create for others, I honestly don't see what is so great about him... If I was Cleveland's gm I would trade his ass for Love in a heartbeat

[Collie]

Rookie Pippen had mediocre handles, an inconsistent jumper and wasn't the passer he would become. The only thing he had going for him was his elite defense. Good thing he played with the best player on the planet who helped mold him into a superstar.


“His rookie season, you could see that he had talent, but he didn’t look like he was going to be a star,” recalled Reinsdorf. “He had a bad habit of dribbling the ball too high, so it was easy for defenders to take it away from him. He wasn’t much of a shooter that year either, but he had great athletic skills.”

http://www.nba.com/bulls/history/pippenhof_reinsdorf_100806.html

Sounds familiar?

[SupermanOnSteroids]

Wiggins has bust written all over him... Inconsistent jumper, weak handles, can't create for others, I honestly don't see what is so great about him... If I was Cleveland's gm I would trade his ass for Love in a heartbeat
then tell us his trade value right now. should be close to his perceived value right?