I can't believe I'm saying this, but LeBron has a legit chance to be the GOAT

[Fudge]

2 more rings, 2 more FMVP's, and 2 more league MVP's and he's the GOAT, in my book. The move to Cleveland changed everything.

Anybody else think so?

[Mr. Jabbar]

i think youre alone on this one buddy

would crack the top 10 for sure tho

[LoneyROY7]

Definitely would go down as a great player.

[Inferno]

4 rings, 4 FMVP'S, and 6 MVPS? Definitely top 3-5 all time

[SupermanOnSteroids]

TFW when the city you play in and the amount of attention you receive matters more than your on the court skills.

[PsychoWorm]

:wtf:

Lebron is beast but he will never touch MJ.

Educate yourself.

[Kingwillball]

2 more rings, 2 more FMVP's, and 2 more league MVP's and he's the GOAT, in my book. The move to Cleveland changed everything.

Anybody else think so?


I can't believe your saying it either..but I agree or at least he is in discussion.

[CHi1PriDe]

:wtf:

Lebron is beast but he will never touch MJ.

Educate yourself.

Respect esp coming from an old school heat fan :cheers:

ps- 2/5

[Smook A.]

He has a chance to be the 2nd best ever

The #1 spot is permanently taken

[Mure]

2 Rings and FMVPS in Cleveland with 2 mvps = 3rd. He still doesn't go ahead of MJ and Kareem.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

He'll go down top 5. No higher than 4th...

[LoneyROY7]

It's amazing to imagine the possibility of exceeding such enormous expectations while maintaining a relatively level-headed approach towards his future endeavors. :applause:

[Dbrog]

He has a chance to be the 2nd best ever

The #1 spot is permanently taken

It's true. No one is ever going to be able to win 11 chips in 13 seasons ever again.

[Keno]

4 rings, 4 FMVP'S, and 6 MVPS? Definitely top 3-5 all time

lmao at 3-5. with that resume it's no debate hes #2 all time and can be arguably the goat.

[Inferno]

He'll go down top 5. No higher than 4th...

Who'd you have above him?


lmao at 3-5. with that resume it's no debate hes #2 all time and can be arguably the goat.

top 3-5 includes #1 and #2
:coleman:

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Who'd you have above him?
MJ Russell KAJ...I could see it being debatable with KAJ actually...

[Keno]

Who'd you have above him?



top 3-5 includes #1 and #2
:coleman:

lol interesting use of words.

[dubeta]

The important thing here is FMVP

Jordan- 6
Russell - 7-8
Wilt- 1
Kobe-2
Shaq-3
Duncan-3
MAgic-3
Bird-2
Kareem-2

As you can see it is very difficult to get more than 3 FMVP's. Therefore if LeBron gets 4 he is automatically top 3 and propably above Russell due to being a much better overall player

[That_Admiral]

don't think he can takeover the places of MJ, Russell or Kareem. So I would say that top 4 is possible, depending on his dominance in these next few years

[Roundball_Rock]

2 more rings, 2 more FMVP's, and 2 more league MVP's and he's the GOAT, in my book. The move to Cleveland changed everything.

Anybody else think so?

Well, let's look at how that hypothetical resume stacks up compared to the consensus top 11 players:

MVP's

LeBron 6
KAJ 6
MJ 5
Russell 5
Wilt 4
Magic 3
Bird 3
Duncan 2
Shaq 1
Kobe 1
Hakeem 1


Rings

Russell 11
MJ 6
KAJ 6
Magic 5
Kobe 5
Duncan 5
LeBron 4
Shaq 4
Hakeem 2
Wilt 2

The resume you outlined would make him a lock for top 5 all-time with a legitimate case for GOAT. Some people act as if there is a force field around one player that makes him a tier above the rest. Realistically, currently, there is a strong GOAT candidate tier consisting of MJ, KAJ, Wilt, Russell. You could argue any of them as high as 1st and as low as 4th. (Magic, Bird, Shaq are weak GOAT candidates) There is nothing magical separating MJ from the rest. If LeBron can get a resume good enough for, say, 4th, he automatically has a resume that can be argued for as 1st.

There is a decent chance LeBron finishes with a record 7 MVP's. Next year is basically a lock. That would give him 5 at age 30. Who is to say that he does not win 2 more after that? Rings are harder to predict due to the greater number of variables involved.

[Fudge]

Well, let's look at how that hypothetical resume stacks up compared to the consensus top 11 players:

MVP's

LeBron 6
KAJ 6
MJ 5
Russell 5
Wilt 4
Magic 3
Bird 3
Duncan 2
Shaq 1
Kobe 1
Hakeem 1


Rings

Russell 11
MJ 6
KAJ 6
Magic 5
Kobe 5
Duncan 5
LeBron 4
Shaq 4
Hakeem 2
Wilt 2

The resume you outlined would make him a lock for top 5 all-time with a legitimate case for GOAT. Some people act as if there is a force field around one player that makes him a tier above the rest. Realistically, currently, there is a strong GOAT candidate tier consisting of MJ, KAJ, Wilt, Russell. You could argue any of them as high as 1st and as low as 4th. (Magic, Bird, Shaq are weak GOAT candidates) There is nothing magical separating MJ from the rest. If LeBron can get a resume good enough for, say, 4th, he automatically has a resume that can be argued for as 1st.
Awesome post, buddy. Well said.

[DFish24]

He will never pass Jordan, Kareem or Russell.

[Beastmode88]

He could end up as top 2 or 3 when it's all said in done but there's no way he's taking MJ's throne after what happened in 2011. Imagine MJ shit talking him in the 4th quarter in the finals.. lebron would call himself to the bench again.

[Roundball_Rock]

That is one way of looking at it. Here is another:

Losing seasons: MJ 5, LJ 1
Lost in the first round: MJ 3, LJ 0
Swept in the first round: MJ 2, LJ 0
Lost in the ECF: MJ 2, LJ 1

The key word is "case." There are ways to interpret the facts to put KAJ, Wilt and some others above MJ; if LeBron has the resume the OP projected he too would have a case, irrespective of one sub-par series where he had 18/7/7. Any team with LeBron on it is a 50+ second round team--at minimum. That cannot be said about MJ.

[Beastmode88]

That is one way of looking at it. Here is another:

Losing seasons: MJ 5, LJ 1
Lost in the first round: MJ 3, LJ 0
Swept in the first round: MJ 2, LJ 0

The key word is "case." There are ways to interpret the facts to put KAJ, Wilt and some others above MJ; if LeBron has the resume the OP projected he too would have a case, irrespective of one sub-par series where he had 18/7/7. Any team with LeBron on it is a 50+ second round team--at minimum. That cannot be said about MJ.

now you're just knit picking.

[Roundball_Rock]

now you're just knit picking.

My point was one can nit-pick with any player, like you did with the 11' Finals.

The argument for LeBron likely will be team impact. How many players in history guarantee 50+ wins and the second round as a floor? KAJ, MJ, Wilt all had seasons below 0.500. Russell is the one other guy who comes to mind--but what happens if you put Russell on a team like the 2014 Bulls with no scoring? LeBron plus scrubs=50+ and the second round as a worst case scenario.

[Inferno]

lol interesting use of words.

Yeah if he gets all of those accolades along with getting pretty high in scoring, he can be as high as #2

[choppermagic]

Yup over-reaction.

KAJ already would have him beat on this measures. And KAJ has the scoring lead too and kills Lebron on rebounds. He also had an unblemished college career as well as an extra bonus point to boot.

And KAJ is not universally accepted as the GOAT, so i dont see how Lebron could be that on that scenario.

ps- FMVP is not the be all and end all of greatness by the way. No way is the Spur's Kwahi Leonard a greater player than, say, Karl Malone because he has a FMVP.

[MellowYellow]

Lebron missed the playoffs twice, in the east.

[dubeta]

Yup over-reaction.

KAJ already would have him beat on this measures. And KAJ has the scoring lead too and kills Lebron on rebounds. He also had an unblemished college career as well as an extra bonus point to boot.

And KAJ is not universally accepted as the GOAT, so i dont see how Lebron could be that on that scenario.

ps- FMVP is not the be all and end all of greatness by the way. No way is the Spur's Kwahi Leonard a greater player than, say, Karl Malone because he has a FMVP.

Kareem 6 rings but only 2 FMVP, thats worse than even kobe :facepalm

The only true challenger for GOAT is MJ

[red1]

stop lying boy. he can never be the GOAT

[Mure]

Does a 3 peat in Cleveland with 3 fmvps and 2 regular season mvps = lock for number 2? Or even goat?

[deja vu]

If (big if) he wins 2 more rings

6/6 > 4/7

11/13 > 4/7

[AintNoSunshine]

Nah, can't see anybody surpass MJ.

[Fudge]

Does a 3 peat in Cleveland with 3 fmvps and 2 regular season mvps = lock for number 2? Or even goat?
GOAT, no question.

Wouldn't even be arguable anymore.

[magnax1]

Lebron's prime playoff #s so far (09-present)
28-9-6 60% TS% 1.8 steals 42 mpg
Jordan (88-93)
35-7-7 58 TS% 2.3 steals 42 mpg
There's a pretty clear winner here, and Lebron would have to pull off a miracle to equal Jordan in value over his prime.

[MellowYellow]

Does a 3 peat in Cleveland with 3 fmvps and 2 regular season mvps = lock for number 2? Or even goat?

not gonna happen though, but ya it would = lock for 2nd at worst.

[dubeta]

Lebron's prime playoff #s so far (09-present)
28-9-6 60% TS% 1.8 steals 42 mpg
Jordan (88-93)
35-7-7 58 TS% 2.3 steals 42 mpg
There's a pretty clear winner here, and Lebron would have to pull off a miracle to equal Jordan in value over his prime.

adjust for pace

[guy]

That is one way of looking at it. Here is another:

Losing seasons: MJ 5, LJ 1
Lost in the first round: MJ 3, LJ 0
Swept in the first round: MJ 2, LJ 0
Lost in the ECF: MJ 2, LJ 1

The key word is "case." There are ways to interpret the facts to put KAJ, Wilt and some others above MJ; if LeBron has the resume the OP projected he too would have a case, irrespective of one sub-par series where he had 18/7/7. Any team with LeBron on it is a 50+ second round team--at minimum. That cannot be said about MJ.

:oldlol: Wow way to downplay THE FINALS IN HIS PRIME :oldlol:

How is his team a 50+ second round team at minimum when he's actually missed the playoffs and led his team to less than 50 wins before?

[Cocaine80s]

He always had the chance to be GOAT. Whether he came to Cleveland or not



Glad youre finally seeing the truth now fudge

[Roundball_Rock]

Lebron's prime playoff #s so far (09-present)
28-9-6 60% TS% 1.8 steals 42 mpg
Jordan (88-93)
35-7-7 58 TS% 2.3 steals 42 mpg
There's a pretty clear winner here, and Lebron would have to pull off a miracle to equal Jordan in value over his prime.


Prime KAJ has better playoff stats than both of them. Prime KAJ lasted from 1970-1981--as long as LeBron has been in the NBA.

LeBron's best selling point is his value. How many players in history guarantee you a minimum of 50+ wins and the second round regardless of who you put around him?

LeBron missed the playoffs fresh out of high school. He joined a 17 win team and turned it to a 35 win team (as a comparison, MJ came from UNC and took the Bulls from 27 wins to 38, an improvement of only 11) and then had them above 0.500 (42-40) in his second season. Since he turned 21, his teams have had at least 50 wins, or a 50 win pace when he played (2008--50 win pace with him, 0-7 without him :lol ), at minimum and reached at least the second round. LeBron coming out of high school versus going to college should not be held against him. LeBron in his first two years out of high school>>>>>>>>KG and Kobe in their first two years.

[guy]

LeBron missed the playoffs fresh out of high school. He joined a 17 win team and turned it to a 35 win team and then had them above 0.500 (42-40) in his second season. Since he turned 21, his teams have had 50 wins, or a 50 win pace with him, at minimum and reached at least the second round.

Ahh context you use here for Lebron. But you don't use the same for Jordan in his first years when he wasn't getting his teams to 50 wins and the 2nd round playing in the tougher conference? Convenient for you. So if the Cavs were in the tougher Western Conference, isn't it very possible that from 2006-2008 they aren't getting 50+ wins and past the first round each of those years?

By the way, he did miss some games in each of those 3 seasons, and they weren't on a 50 win pace with him in either of those seasons.

[Hands of Iron]

Lebron's prime playoff #s so far (09-present)
28-9-6 60% TS% 1.8 steals 42 mpg
Jordan (88-93)
35-7-7 58 TS% 2.3 steals 42 mpg
There's a pretty clear winner here, and Lebron would have to pull off a miracle to equal Jordan in value over his prime.

Jordan from 88-93 is simply the absolute pinnacle for perimeter players. Lebron's production is still ridiculously good though really and probably not too many come close either. I'd be willing to bet he performs much more similar to '09/'10 (33/9/7 60% TS) the next couple of years than what he's done in Miami, even though 2012 was an ATG run.

[coin24]

Nah his first 2 don't count. Sidekick rings. Left his team in his prime to ring chase, then bailed on them as soon as his old team got some talent:lol

Fu*king shameless just like his beta stans..


If he wins 2 in Cleveland he would crack top10. There's too many shit stains on his resume..

[Kvnzhangyay]

Nah his first 2 don't count. Sidekick rings. Left his team in his prime to ring chase, then bailed on them as soon as his old team got some talent:lol

Fu*king shameless just like his beta stans..


If he wins 2 in Cleveland he would crack top10. There's too many shit stains on his resume..

He's already top 10 and ur delusional to say he's not

But to awnser OP, pretty much no chance @ GOAT unless he wins like 6 rings in a row

[magnax1]

KAJ has better playoff stats then both of them. Prime KAJ lasted from 1970-1981--as long as LeBron has been in the NBA.
Uhhh....not really no....
Averaged 29-16-4 with 3.4 blocks 56 TS% 44mpg (lowest of the three 71-80) with inflated rebounding numbers. Also was inconsistent on a level beyond either of them. His 77 playoff run was probably as good as any of Jordans but one year isnt worth much in a comparison of total primes.


LeBron's best selling point is his value. How many players in history guarantee you a minimum of 50+ wins and the second round regardless of who you put around him?
His value? Meaning.... how good he is?
There are a good 10 or maybe 15 player who you're bound to get 50 wins around all time in their prime. I mean, exclusions are necessary for teams like the ones TMac had in 03, or kobe in 06 but there might not be a single player who would get more than 50 with those guys.
In terms of his "value" or impact, there's no reason to say it is a great selling point above Jordan. Especially considering all of Lebron's blunders in the playoffs.

[Roundball_Rock]

:roll: MJ stans resorting to making anonymous threats (guy was this you :lol ?) :

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There are a good 10 or maybe 15 player who you're bound to get 50 wins around all time in their prime.

Such as? Did they manage to get 50+ and the second round every year after age 21?

Prime KAJ was a 30/16/4/3 player in the playoffs from 1970-1980. That trumps something like 34/7/6 in terms of raw statistics.

[sportjames23]

Two-fiffs.

[sportjames23]

:roll: MJ stans resorting to making anonymous threats (guy was this you :lol ?) :

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Roundball_Rock gotta runteldat. :oldlol:

[magnax1]

Jordan from 88-93 is simply the absolute pinnacle for perimeter players. Lebron's production is still ridiculously good though really and probably not too many come close either. I'd be willing to bet he performs much more similar to '09/'10 (33/9/7 60% TS) the next couple of years than what he's done in Miami, even though 2012 was an ATG run.
Yeah, I dont disagree, though honestly he was better in Miami than he ever was in cleveland. Got his shit together on defense, doesn't pound the ball quite as much (still pretty awful) and started focusing on just getting down low. Statistically he's really not even any worse, just scores less volume and replaces it with other things.
I don't think anyone disagrees Lebron is one of the best 5 perimeter guys ever. Maybe 3 even?

[guy]

:roll: MJ stans resorting to making anonymous threats (guy was this you :lol ?) :

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Such as?

Prime KAJ was a 30/16/4/3 player in the playoffs from 1970-1980. That trumps something like 34/7/6 in terms of raw statistics.

Sorry man. I like context with my rape fantasies. With you there wouldn't be any. Probably just a bunch of random calculations.

[Keno]

Lebron missed the playoffs twice, in the east.

lol in his rookie year. melo missed the playoffs in his prime/peak.

[Roundball_Rock]

MJ stans shook. :pimp:

[sportjames23]

Roundball_Rock scurred. :oldlol:

[MellowYellow]

lol in his rookie year. melo missed the playoffs in his prime/peak.

Once, and had his best season on a team with a host of players having their worst season ever, injuries, dsyfunction, and a terrible coach.. Melo won't missed the playoffs again during this contract and that is a for sure thing.

[magnax1]

Such as?
You just want me to list the 10 best players ever? I mean....


Prime KAJ was a 30/16/4/3 player in the playoffs from 1970-1980. That trumps something like 34/7/6 in terms of raw statistics.
"Raw" as in without context. Kareem played in an era of inflated rebounding pre 80s.
I like how you made sure to round down Jordan's numbers and round Kareem's up :lol

[oh the horror]

MJ stans shook. :pimp:


No. They're not.


You don't seem them making continuous threads trying to convince everyone of anything.



The problem with Lebron is you simply can't erase his blunders, multiple wtf moments and downright embarrassments along the way.



Cramps, magic elbow, abysmal finals performances and whatever have you along the way. That's apart of the narrative when it's all said and done.


And some may not agree but dude has abandoned teams when there is turmoil. That's how some people see it.

[magnax1]

Such as? Did they manage to get 50+ and the second round every year after age 21?
I'm fond of revisionist history too. I once read a book where Aliens tried to invade earth during world war 2. My favorite part is when a nuclear bomb gets dropped on chicago.

[Keno]

Once, and had his best season on a team with a host of players having their worst season ever, injuries, dsyfunction, and a terrible coach.. Melo won't missed the playoffs again during this contract and that is a for sure thing.

i just see a bunch of excuses.

[RedBlackAttack]

His legacy has been helped by coming back to the Cavs, but the GOAT ship hath sailed. Let him be what he is... an all-timer and one of the most unique players in NBA history.

I'm not sure why it is so important to people that he be remembered as "better" than Michael Jordan. It's simply not going to happen that way.

[Hands of Iron]

His legacy has been helped by coming back to the Cavs, but the GOAT ship hath sailed. Let him be what he is... an all-timer and one of the most unique players in NBA history.

I'm not sure why it is so important to people that he be remembered as "better" than Michael Jordan. It's simply not going to happen that way.

It isn't going to happen and it isn't important.

He's already one of the most productive and accomplished players in NBA history, that's been written. He's been the best player in the league in his era for a good six years now. He has time and the opportunity to further enhance it. Winning an NBA Championship for Cleveland and realistically adding anywhere from 1-3 MVP's to his ledger would make for a career about as impressive as any. I think he'd be pretty satisfied with that.

[RedBlackAttack]

It isn't going to happen and it isn't important.

He's already one of the most productive and accomplished players in NBA history, that's been written. He's been the best player in the league in his era for a good six years now. He has time and the opportunity to further enhance it. Winning an NBA Championship for Cleveland and realistically adding anywhere from 1-3 MVP's to his ledger would make for a career about as impressive as any. I think he'd be pretty satisfied with that.
As he should be.

[NumberSix]

He'll go down top 5. No higher than 4th...
Why?

[Hands of Iron]

As he should be.

You going to be there on opening night? I have a feeling he's going to drop 50. :oldlol:

You can't manufacture the level of hype that crowd is going to be generating. It'll be like that all damn season long too and the Cavs will probably be competing for the #1 seed if all goes as it should.

[RedBlackAttack]

You going to be there on opening night? I have a feeling he's going to drop 50. :oldlol:

You can't manufacture the level of hype that crowd is going to be generating. It'll be like that all damn season long too and the Cavs will probably be competing for the #1 seed if all goes as it should.
Been inquiring about tickets for an early-season game, but that opener is going to be way too expensive. The introductions alone ... wow.

[jstern]

2 more rings, 2 more FMVP's, and 2 more league MVP's and he's the GOAT, in my book. The move to Cleveland changed everything.

Anybody else think so?

I don't get the logic, 2 more rings, 2 more MVPs and 2 more Finals MVP, because he's doing it in Cleveland? I'm sorry but the logic is like saying, "The world revolves around me, so since I really like that Lebron is Cleveland, that means he would be the GOAT if he wins 2 more rings and Finals MVP."

He would definitely be top 5, but he would need more than that to be GOAT.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Been inquiring about tickets for an early-season game, but that opener is going to be way too expensive. The introductions alone ... wow.
That chalk toss is gonna be epic..

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Why?
Anything is possible of course but I just have a hard time seeing him passing Kareem who's number 3 on my list...I got Wilt and Shaq at 4 and 5 so I definitely can see him passing those 2...

[Rose'sACL]

Bulls during MJ years made the playoffs with 30 wins. I am sure lebron would not have missed the playoffs either.

[Timmy D for MVP]

Bulls during MJ years made the playoffs with 30 wins. I am sure lebron would not have missed the playoffs either.

Am you no from Bizzaro-Homeworld?

EDIT: Ohhh did you edit that real quick or did my eyes fail me?

[Timmy D for MVP]

At this juncture it's really hard for me to see a scenario in which Lebron is the GOAT.

But the cool thing about Lebron, and something I hope the media eventually catches up to, is that he doesn't seem to really care about being MJ. Everyone gets caught up in the MJ comparison, and people lose sight of how good a player is as a unique individual player.

He'll be top-5 when it's all said and done.

[chopchop20]

Never will pass MJ.... or Kobe

[GimmeThat]

I think his name will be brought up in the conversation years from now.

he's definitely got a legit chance at that.

[GODbe]

Never will pass MJ
:facepalm

[GimmeThat]

Never will pass MJ.... or Kobe


if this happens, Durant will probably be in the top 10 category.

[Meticode]

A LeBron thread this is.

[sportjames23]

:facepalm


Why you facepalming, son? He's right.

[r15mohd]

:wtf:

Lebron is beast but he will never touch MJ.

Educate yourself.

being 2nd best (or even 3rd) to MJ (and Kareem) is nothing to :wtf: about...:rolleyes: :facepalm

if he can pull this off in Cleveland...he's definitely top 3-5, I don't think there's any possibility of him catching MJ or even Kareem. those 2 will remain as the best, and Lebron can follow suit right behind them

[pauk]

That would certainly boost him way up there, but that would still not surpass MJ though without any argument....

[Roundball_Rock]

You just want me to list the 10 best players ever? I mean..

How many of them had 0.500 or even losing seasons? Even MJ, KAJ, Wilt had losing seasons when they were MVP-caliber.

You are saying KAJ's rebounding was inflated? Even if you adjust them for pace he would still be high in rebounding. He was consistently in the top 5 in rebounding in his prime. He would average 13-14 rebounds in the 90's. Speaking of pace, why no mention of the pace in the no-defense 80's?


Bulls during MJ years made the playoffs with 30 wins

38, 30 and 40 wins. Meanwhile LeBron missed it with 42 as a 19 year old and took a 17 win team to 35 wins straight from high school. Compare that to how other people did in their first two years out of high school, i.e. KG, Kemp, Kobe. That makes it even more impressive.


That would certainly boost him way up there, but that would still not surpass MJ though without any argument....

Yeah, all it would give LeBron is a case for GOAT. There really is no "clear GOAT" in any sport other than Gretzky in hockey (think Wilt/KAJ/MJ combined).

[poido123]

People getting suckered in by the narrative Here?

LeBron just came off a Finals loss, how does that move him in the direction of 2 chips to pass MJ lol

His failings are too damaging to move him past MJ and the team hopping doesn't help his case.

I think people get stuck in the now too much and rush to move current players up alltime lists.

Impact and peak play, Kareem, wilt, Russell, Mj, shaq will likely remain in front of him on my list.

Those players had either a combination of dominant statistics, peak, or winning above lebron at this present moment.

[Roundball_Rock]

Yeah, but I think the effect of the feel good moment will quickly fade. Where he wins will not really matter outside of Ohio, where he likely will become their GOAT. The key thing is if he winds up with a resume like 4-5 rings, 6-7 MVP's. That would give him a resume comparable to anyone. With that resume, he could be argued anywhere from 1st to 5th all-time.

[ILLsmak]

2 more rings, 2 more FMVP's, and 2 more league MVP's and he's the GOAT, in my book. The move to Cleveland changed everything.

Anybody else think so?

Haha, that avy. We're here for you, Fudge.

-Smak

[INDI]

Him getting the number 3 spot is an absolute possibility (and I'm a Kobe fan). To me though it's this

Jordan
KAJ

Big gap.

To be in the convo with KAJ you need 5 rings min and no exceptions. For Jordan a min of 6 to have the convo

[riseagainst]

OP finally coming out of the closet. Welcome to the club.

:applause:


Warmest regards,

riseagainst

[Hands of Iron]

People getting suckered in by the narrative Here?

LeBron just came off a Finals loss, how does that move him in the direction of 2 chips to pass MJ lol

His failings are too damaging to move him past MJ and the team hopping doesn't help his case.

I think people get stuck in the now too much and rush to move current players up alltime lists.

Impact and peak play, Kareem, wilt, Russell, Mj, shaq will likely remain in front of him on my list.

Those players had either a combination of dominant statistics, peak, or winning above lebron at this present moment.

The MJ stuff should really stop. On the otherhand, his detractors are blowing things a wee bit out of proportion I'd say, for example: http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10311216&postcount=47

I mean, I see this stuff posted literally all the time and some of it even more full of fantastical folly yet I never see anybody offer a single alternative as to who's been a better player over the last 6-7 years, never see any examples posted as to who's actually delivered in bigger fashion in bigger games more often.

The truth is, he's one of the most productive players in the history of the game, both regular season and playoffs alike. He's about 1 Chip and another MVP or two away from being right outside the door of the Top 5 in terms of this achievement-based ranking system people have on here.

[tmacattack33]

I think he'll be top 3 when done.

His 2009 and 2012 peak are already the best peaks i've seen since 2001 Shaq. And 2001 Shaq is regarded as perhaps the best peak ever.

So if he has good longevity (which assumes good health of course), and gets a ring in Cleveland, Lebron will probably go down as top 3.

[Jameerthefear]

He's already the GOAT dumbass.

[Lebronxrings]

he already is.

I can't tell if fudge is being serious or just trying to make everyone hate lebron more...

[kennethgriffin]

2 more rings, 2 more FMVP's, and 2 more league MVP's and he's the GOAT, in my book. The move to Cleveland changed everything.

Anybody else think so?

nobody gets goat stats without winning 7 modern day championships while being atleast an allstar/all nba player for all of them and having won atleast some finals mvps and some season mvps

thats the criteria

i dont care how many mvps a guy gets. he aint being named goat with only 4 titles

[ArbitraryWater]

How his career will be ended:

4 rings / 4 finals mvp's / 5 mvp's

:bowdown:

Up there with Kareem/Jordan and the best comeback story ever :cry:

[RRR3]

:wtf:

Lebron is beast but he will never touch MJ.

Educate yourself.
Qft

[diamenz]

how soon we forget...

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2014/6/16/1402899132256/37a9eb77-2027-4e42-be69-a5fdfe694a6e-460x276.jpeg

http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2011/0612/dal_g_terry03jr_400.jpg

[RRR3]

2014 finals doesn't hurt LeBrons legacy at all. He showed up, his teammates didn't. 2011 finals was a stinker for sure.

[OldSchoolBBall]

He'd be top 3 if he did what the OP said. He has zero shot at #1 except in the eyes of his deluded fans.

[riseagainst]

he already has 5 finals appearances. If he makes another one he'd be tied with MJ for 6 finals appearances, then he'll be the GOAT since he has a higher peak FG%.

[Magic 32]

This hypothetical sh*t again?

Lebron fans are just sad

[Maestro33]

2 more rings, 2 more FMVP's, and 2 more league MVP's and he's the GOAT, in my book. The move to Cleveland changed everything.

Is your book a coloring book by chance? How old are you?

[ImKobe]

The GOAT?? Not after the 2014 NBA Finals. It just sealed it.

[Vienceslav]

I think he just needs to score couple more points and win one more Christmas MVP and he has the #1 spot and the whole of Mt. Rushmore to himself, though if he got another two or three players of the week there couldn't really be any doubt.

[ArbitraryWater]

The GOAT?? Not after the 2014 NBA Finals. It just sealed it.

How could the recent finals series sealed the chance of LeBron moving up at the top? :lol

[Milbuck]

He really doesn't have any realistic shot at passing Jordan. Top 3 is very much still in play though.

[Goldrush25]

He really doesn't have any realistic shot at passing Jordan. Top 3 is very much still in play though.

If that's the worst thing people can muster up to say about him, that he won't be the GOAT, then he's doing pretty well.:oldlol:

One title in Cleveland will put him in the conversation though.

[Vienceslav]

He'll have the GOAT 'I'm coming home' montage and isn't that what this sport is all about these days?