Am I crazy to have Bill Walton on my All-Time Starting 5?

[1987_Lakers]

PG - '87 Magic
SG - '91 Jordan
SF - '13 LeBron
PF - '86 Bird
C - '77 Walton

I think this is a perfect team. Inane passers in Magic, LeBron, & Walton. Magic & Jordan are not great 3 point shooters, but LeBron can hit that shot, & I have Bird as a stretch 4, Bird can also rebound at a great level which is why I am comfortable with him at the 4. I know people like having dominant scoring centers on their teams, but I already have insane scorers and Walton is a perfect center who can rim protect, rebound, & play in a team concept at an elite level.

[Cocaine80s]

who dat

[Milbuck]

who dat
Why even post this?

[iTare]

Why even post this?
i know right?
dude is a fvcking moron.
:facepalm

[Cocaine80s]

Why even post this?
why post on a forum

[christian1923]

http://youtu.be/b2fyT8-N1gU :bowdown:

[kennethgriffin]

no you're not crazy because bill in his prime was a beast

but putting lebron on your team however... thats uncalled for

since picking bill is based on obviously an absolute peak and not careers.

so then you should have taken elgin baylor at small forward

his peak =

40 ppg
20 rpg
5 apg


GOAT small forward peak

[Duggrr]

:applause:

[Mrofir]

You're not crazy, just inane

[Inactive]

Inane passers in Magic, LeBron, & Walton.How dare you, sir! Their passes are brilliant!

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Nope not at all. Bill would be a perfect fit on that team with his rebounding defense and passing dominance...he's not the best scoring center ever but on that team you don't need him to be...I like it... I would personally go with Russell though for similar reasons

[SHAQisGOAT]

No.

Walton had one of the greatest peaks for a center (only at 25 also) plus his overall intangibles were ridiculous, he had crazy impact, could fit with any team/teammates and he's arguably the GOAT passing center.

Like said, if you already have terrific scoring, Bill's a great fit because he plays DPOY-level defense at center, he brings great rebounding, elite passing, terrific intangibles and off-ball play... And he was also capable of close to 20 ppg on really good efficiency, could finish, post-up, space the floor and hit FT's.

So yea, great fit, especially with a team like that. I just think that you should replace someone on that back-court because that's too much (dominant) ball-handling, or players that need to be dominant ball-handlers to make most of their impact felt, and not quite enough 3pt-shooting maybe... With that said, with those type of players you're most likely winning every game though, so...

[KNOW1EDGE]

Yes you are absolutely retarded.

Bill Walton isn't even the best Blazers center of all time.

Arvydas Sabonis was better in every aspect of the game!

I would take prime Amare Stoudemire over Bill Walton, let alone Shaq, Yao Ming, Hakeem, Bill Russell, David Robinson, Tim Duncan, KAJ, Barkley, etc etc

[RRR3]

Why wouldn't you just pick Bill Russell to play this role

[GimmeThat]

well, if we are going with one season, and one peak season only.

I would like to remind you that Bill Walton was listed at 6-11.

[wally_world]

no you're not crazy because bill in his prime was a beast

but putting lebron on your team however... thats uncalled for

since picking bill is based on obviously an absolute peak and not careers.

so then you should have taken elgin baylor at small forward

his peak =

40 ppg
20 rpg
5 apg


GOAT small forward peak

:bowdown:

this guy knows his stuff :applause:

[Nowitness]

Greatest C ever with two seasons.

Definitely not.

[Kvnzhangyay]

no you're not crazy because bill in his prime was a beast

but putting lebron on your team however... thats uncalled for

since picking bill is based on obviously an absolute peak and not careers.

so then you should have taken elgin baylor at small forward

his peak =

40 ppg
20 rpg
5 apg


GOAT small forward peak

Just imo comparisons of Lebron and Baylor based on limited footage

Slashing: A wash
Shooting: Definitely Baylor, at lunch, at dinner, and at breakfast, and at brunch, and I'll have him 7 days a week, and twice on Sundays and Saturdays
Defense: A wash
Shot blocking: A wash
Shotmaking: LeBron
Court Vision: LeBron
Rebounding: Baylor
Athleticism: A wash (leaning towards Bron)
Post game: Baylor
Clutchness: A wash

I guess OP just wants insane ball movement on the team? I mean he has Lebron, Walton, and Magic, which are all top 2 of their position in passing

[ILLsmak]

PG - '87 Magic
SG - '91 Jordan
SF - '13 LeBron
PF - '86 Bird
C - '77 Walton

I think this is a perfect team. Inane passers in Magic, LeBron, & Walton. Magic & Jordan are not great 3 point shooters, but LeBron can hit that shot, & I have Bird as a stretch 4, Bird can also rebound at a great level which is why I am comfortable with him at the 4. I know people like having dominant scoring centers on their teams, but I already have insane scorers and Walton is a perfect center who can rim protect, rebound, & play in a team concept at an elite level.

no interior D tho. Would get housed by a team with a real front line. I think you can have Walton at C, but you gotta have someone like Hakeem at PF.

If you put Shaq vs them, they'd have to triple team.

I miss Bill Walton as a commentator tho.

-Smak

[Psileas]

Why wouldn't you just pick Bill Russell to play this role

Was about to post the same thing. Russell offers you for more than a decade what Walton offered for like 2 years. Now, this may be a single-season team, so durability may not count, but Walton still ran a bigger risk of getting injured.

Plus, if you want Bird as a PF, you'll have to pick a different version of him, not 1986.

[SHAQisGOAT]

no interior D tho. Would get housed by a team with a real front line. I think you can have Walton at C, but you gotta have someone like Hakeem at PF.

If you put Shaq vs them, they'd have to triple team.

I miss Bill Walton as a commentator tho.

-Smak

:coleman:

:rolleyes: :facepalm

Walton played DPOY-level defense at center, and he would've won one, even in his really short peak, if the award was given already... Team defense and paint protection was his thing, capable of averaging over 3 BPG and even led the league once in it, tremendous IQ also, very tall/long, pretty strong and a good athlete, as well.

And Bird's one of the greatest team defenders ever and good post-defender too, actually more of a PF (especially as he got older and with back issues), who mainly moved to more of a SF because he was much more than capable and the C's needed McHale to start. He had more than enough size (especially nowadays) and was great at creating TO's, won charges and could even shot-block, was very smart and had great instincts, knew how to rotate and was a great rebounder.
At his best, he was always at the very top in DWS and DRtg, and had major defensive impact.

[Goldrush25]

Longevity means something. So yeah you're crazy.

[T_L_P]

He's close to making it based on peak alone...and if I were asked to build a team I go defense first, so him and Duncan would be my bigs.

But he has a weaker overall case than Kareem, Shaq and Hakeem.

[Vienceslav]

Longevity means something. So yeah you're crazy.
Well, longevity usually plays into the All time rankings, but when people are discussing their all time starting 5 they usually list peaks so having Walton on a All time starting 5 is not crazy at all.

[riseagainst]

Yes you are absolutely retarded.

Bill Walton isn't even the best Blazers center of all time.

Arvydas Sabonis was better in every aspect of the game!

I would take prime Amare Stoudemire over Bill Walton, let alone Shaq, Yao Ming, Hakeem, Bill Russell, David Robinson, Tim Duncan, KAJ, Barkley, etc etc

:roll:

[1987_Lakers]

Why wouldn't you just pick Bill Russell to play this role

Walton has more size (He was taller than his listed 6-11), he is a better passer & a more efficient scorer.

[Rubio2Gasol]

Don't like it, but to each their own.

Of all those, I woukdmonly have Jordan and Bird in mine.

[Dresta]

Bron doesn't fit on that team. You'd be better off with Pippin really: better balance.

[RoseCity07]

I'd replace bird with Duncan. Maybe LeBron with Bird because magic and Jordan are overkill.

[LA Lakers]

If we could take Bruins Bill Walton(greatest college player of all time without question) up until his championship run with the Blazers, ooh man that'd be deadly. That is a great starting five that you have. I think Lebron has a better post game than Bird but Bird is a better shooter, although Lebron is a great shooter too. I dont know, this team is dominant.

[1987_Lakers]

If we could take Bruins Bill Walton(greatest college player of all time without question) up until his championship run with the Blazers, ooh man that'd be deadly. That is a great starting five that you have. I think Lebron has a better post game than Bird but Bird is a better shooter, although Lebron is a great shooter too. I dont know, this team is dominant.

Not true at all. Bird had a deadly post game.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBnwSeMiVaU

[Genaro]

Yes you are absolutely retarded.

Bill Walton isn't even the best Blazers center of all time.

Arvydas Sabonis was better in every aspect of the game!

I would take prime Amare Stoudemire over Bill Walton, let alone Shaq, Yao Ming, Hakeem, Bill Russell, David Robinson, Tim Duncan, KAJ, Barkley, etc etc
You just went full retard.

[1987_Lakers]

no interior D tho. Would get housed by a team with a real front line. I think you can have Walton at C, but you gotta have someone like Hakeem at PF.

If you put Shaq vs them, they'd have to triple team.

I miss Bill Walton as a commentator tho.

-Smak

Walton in the 1977 NBA Finals averaged 19 RPG & 3.7 BPG.

During the regular season he averaged 14.4 RPG & 3.2 BPG, both #1 in the league. Keep in mind a PEAK Kareem was also in the league at this time. Walton made All-Defensive First Team and would have won DPOY if that award was given out in those days. Peak Walton was a better defender than the popular big men like Kareem & Shaq.

Walton's TRB% in 1977 was 21.2, which is incredible.

[LA Lakers]

Sorry, didnt watch all those highlights you posted, but my summation still stands, Lebron has a better post game than Bird. I'll say more complete if you will, just think about some of his passes out of the post. The court vision is off the charts. It's all opinion, though.
My starting five is: Magic, Michael, Bird, Bill Russell and Kareem. I don't have one particular year for each player as they all had many exceptional seasons.

[LA Lakers]

On any given day, you can plug Wilt Chamberlain on my list, too. Honorable mention should go to Hakeem, Dr. J, and Kobe Bryant. But Dr. J and Kobe are both so similar to Michael Jordan. Hakeem is tough to leave out, if we wanna talk about post moves as well.

[SHAQisGOAT]

I think Lebron has a better post game than Bird

:roll:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBnwSeMiVaU

:rolleyes: :facepalm


And yea, Bird's clearly a better shooter from pretty much everywhere.

[SHAQisGOAT]

Sorry, didnt watch all those highlights you posted, but my summation still stands, Lebron has a better post game than Bird. I'll say more complete if you will, just think about some of his passes out of the post. The court vision is off the charts. It's all opinion, though.
My starting five is: Magic, Michael, Bird, Bill Russell and Kareem. I don't have one particular year for each player as they all had many exceptional seasons.

Huh, you still going with that complete bogus claim :wtf: :facepalm Bird had more moves and more ways to score in the post, a better soft-touch with either hand from close too, less wasted motion and more effective. Go look at the 1984 or 1986 Finals for example, he killed the Lakers (Cooper) and the Rockets (McCray) down-low. Your summation doesn't stand at all because it's just false, Bird had a better post-game than LeBron does.

More complete? :roll: Again, Larry had a considerably more complete post-game... Passes? Bird's one of the GOAT passers out of the post, certainly better than LeBron, you don't know what you're talking about at this point... You can even bring the better ability to play PG for LeBron, resulting in great playmaking from the perimeter, and whatnot, but passes out of the post? Bird was just better. Some of it, here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NDaY_-p3hSM

My starting 5 is the same but with Duncan at PF as Russell was (more of) a center.

[inclinerator]

lets see wilt 50 22 and 13 vs

walkton 20 15 and 5

nope.jpeg

[MUGEN]

Walton in the 1977 NBA Finals averaged 19 RPG & 3.7 BPG.

During the regular season he averaged 14.4 RPG & 3.2 BPG, both #1 in the league. Keep in mind a PEAK Kareem was also in the league at this time. Walton made All-Defensive First Team and would have won DPOY if that award was given out in those days. Peak Walton was a better defender than the popular big men like Kareem & Shaq.

Walton's TRB% in 1977 was 21.2, which is incredible.

:applause:

OP nope you are not crazy. Hell give him one of the wearable mic to boot. He shall give the whole 12 inches...not just 6 inches for his team

[LA Lakers]

I think position with Duncan is irrelevant. Too me, he is a center disguised as a forward. Duncan so versatile he fools everyone into thinking he a four but he really a 5.

[1987_Lakers]

I know in alot of these all-time starting 5 discussions people have twin tower lineups, whether its Duncan or Hakeem at the 4. But I like Bird at the 4. With the evolution of the 3 point shot....spacing and 3 point shooting is more important than ever. Bird is the perfect stretch 4 who was not only an elite shooter, but could also score in the post & rebound at a high level. Bird at the 4 is a no brainier to me, also if my team goes up against a twin tower lineup, Bird can easily take them out of the game defensively by offensively standing near the perimeter.

I lose some interior defense with Bird on my team instead of guys like Hakeem & Duncan, but with Bird IMO my team becomes more versatile, my passing, spacing, shooting, & transition game all improve & my rebounding doesn't fall too much considering Bird was a great rebounder. Magic, LeBron, Bird, & Walton all on the same team? The ball would move beautifully.

Also could you imagine how crazy my fast break would be? Walton grabs the rebound and outlets (one of the GOAT outlet passers) to Magic, to the left of Magic is M. Jordan & to the right is LeBron. Game over.

[La Frescobaldi]

Yes you are absolutely retarded.

Bill Walton isn't even the best Blazers center of all time.

Arvydas Sabonis was better in every aspect of the game!

I would take prime Amare Stoudemire over Bill Walton, let alone Shaq, Yao Ming, Hakeem, Bill Russell, David Robinson, Tim Duncan, KAJ, Barkley, etc etc
KAJ & O'Neil are the only guys on that list better than '76-77 Bill Walton. Olajuwon & Duncan get a maybe. I leave out Russell because I never saw him til he got old. Get back to me when Barkley can play the 5 against those guys. And no, not Robinson, either.

You guys need to get on over it about Walton. He ruled the court end of story.

[Nowitness]

I know in alot of these all-time starting 5 discussions people have twin tower lineups, whether its Duncan or Hakeem at the 4. But I like Bird at the 4. With the evolution of the 3 point shot....spacing and 3 point shooting is more important than ever. Bird is the perfect stretch 4 who was not only an elite shooter, but could also score in the post & rebound at a high level. Bird at the 4 is a no brainier to me, also if my team goes up against a twin tower lineup, Bird can easily take them out of the game defensively by offensively standing near the perimeter.

I lose some interior defense with Bird on my team instead of guys like Hakeem & Duncan, but with Bird IMO my team becomes more versatile, my passing, spacing, shooting, & transition game all improve & my rebounding doesn't fall too much considering Bird was a great rebounder. Magic, LeBron, Bird, & Walton all on the same team? The ball would move beautifully.

Also could you imagine how crazy my fast break would be? Walton grabs the rebound and outlets (one of the GOAT outlet passers) to Magic, to the left of Magic is M. Jordan & to the right is LeBron. Game over.

You also lose perimeter (and in-turn all defense) with Bird just to let you know.

[LeBird]

To 1987_Lakers:

Which best years of Wilt, Russell and KAJ do you pick and why do you pick Walton over them? Just interested in your opinion, don't have a gripe about your starting 5, it's awesome.

[SHAQisGOAT]

I know in alot of these all-time starting 5 discussions people have twin tower lineups, whether its Duncan or Hakeem at the 4. But I like Bird at the 4. With the evolution of the 3 point shot....spacing and 3 point shooting is more important than ever. Bird is the perfect stretch 4 who was not only an elite shooter, but could also score in the post & rebound at a high level. Bird at the 4 is a no brainier to me, also if my team goes up against a twin tower lineup, Bird can easily take them out of the game defensively by offensively standing near the perimeter.

I lose some interior defense with Bird on my team instead of guys like Hakeem & Duncan, but with Bird IMO my team becomes more versatile, my passing, spacing, shooting, & transition game all improve & my rebounding doesn't fall too much considering Bird was a great rebounder. Magic, LeBron, Bird, & Walton all on the same team? The ball would move beautifully.

Also could you imagine how crazy my fast break would be? Walton grabs the rebound and outlets (one of the GOAT outlet passers) to Magic, to the left of Magic is M. Jordan & to the right is LeBron. Game over.

Bird played like a stretch 4 in college, was projected as something like that too, and played a lot like one in the NBA countless times, especially/even in his younger years when he guarded more SF's and was more athletic.
He's arguably the GOAT overall shooter yea, did lots of damage on the perimeter in numerous ways but he also had a great postgame, great soft-touch from close, was very physical/agressive and could bang inside with the bigboys, great passer/playmaker from the post, was a great rebounder, killed teams on the inside time and time again, and a great team defender.

And since you mention outlet passing, at the end of the day Bird would be my choice for the GOAT at it. Just look at stuff like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTI-Cmkp87A

[SHAQisGOAT]

You also lose perimeter (and in-turn all defense) with Bird just to let you know.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KpEAZMT5t_U

:rolleyes:

Bird had great defensive impact, and from the get-go, don't be fooled. He's one of the GOAT team defenders, good post defender and before back issues and old age he could more than hold his own on the perimeter. Plus it's better to have him play the 4 on defense, and even better when he can roam around, that's when he was most impactful and created lot of havoc, also he was probably a better post m2m defender than perimeter m2m defender, especially/mostly in his peak (offensive) years.

And his overall offense is arguably GOAT, at his best, along with great rebounding and unreal intangibles... I'll take that over elite defense, any day of the week.

[1987_Lakers]

To 1987_Lakers:

Which best years of Wilt, Russell and KAJ do you pick and why do you pick Walton over them? Just interested in your opinion, don't have a gripe about your starting 5, it's awesome.

Russell - 1962 or 1965
Wilt - 1967
KAJ - 1977

The reason why I pick Walton over all of them is because I think he would be a better fit for my team, not because Walton was a better individual player. Walton to me at his peak is the ultimate team player & center, he could do it all, score a bit, rebound, defend, pass, etc etc. You saw how dominant Portland was with him on the floor and how much they suffered when he was off the court. The fact that Walton provides world-class rebounding, (statistically he is one of the greatest defensive rebounders ever) provides world class defense, and world-class passing to me is the deal breaker.

He wasn't a dominant scorer, but having Jordan, Bird, & LeBron on my team scoring wouldn't be an issue.

[LAZERUSS]

A PEAK Walton (which was for about 120 games) was basically a 19-14-4-3 guy who played elite-level defense.

A PEAK Kareem (from the last half of the '70 season, thru the entire '71 season, and thru the '72 regular season)...was a 32-16-4-4 player who played elite-level defense.

And Kareem could give you 48 minutes if needed. Walton was either wore out, or on a stretcher after 40.

Furthermore a PRIME Kareem (not even a PEAK Kareem) was doing this to a PEAK Walton...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=coHMKlx7Was&playnext=1&videos=YqP06ya0k4w

I'm sorry, but watching Kareem just shell Walton one-on-one, and even abusing Walton and his help defenders, is just too overwhelming. THAT Kareem was DESTROYING a helpless Walton.


And then there was a PEAK Chamberlain. A PEAK Wilt was a 24-24-8-8 .680 center who was capable of hanging 60+ point games, or 40+ rebound games, or 21 assist games, or even 20-20-20 games. A PEAK Chamberlain just carpet-bombed Russell, Reed, Thurmond, and Bellamy. And a PEAK Chamberlain was playing "Russell-level" defense.


After those two, I would take a PEAK Shaq, a peak Duncan, and peak Moses, and even a peak Hakeem. And, Russell, while not as efficient as Walton, was better at every other aspect of the game. And even a PEAK Robinson would be in that converation.

Sorry, but there is fairly long list of other centers that I would take over a PEAK Walton.

[ILLsmak]

Walton in the 1977 NBA Finals averaged 19 RPG & 3.7 BPG.

During the regular season he averaged 14.4 RPG & 3.2 BPG, both #1 in the league. Keep in mind a PEAK Kareem was also in the league at this time. Walton made All-Defensive First Team and would have won DPOY if that award was given out in those days. Peak Walton was a better defender than the popular big men like Kareem & Shaq.

Walton's TRB% in 1977 was 21.2, which is incredible.

What I'm saying is with Bird and Walton at the PF/C your team would get housed by physical bigs or aggressive driving. I am not saying either was that bad at D just that they wouldn't be able to physically deal with a bruising team. And there are bruising players that are really good... that could be put on an all time team.

Again: this is spoken in reference to all time players. I don't see how Bird and Walton could slow down all time players in the paint. If you think they could, I guess we will have to agree to disagree.

-Smak

[LAZERUSS]

BTW, A PEAK Walton went 91-31 in his two PEAK seasons.

A PEAK Kareem went 129-35. And a PEAK Chamberlain went 130-33.

All three won one title at their peaks.

[MavsSuperFan]

Why not just pick shaq, if you are only going to consider primes

[LAZERUSS]

Why not just pick shaq, if you are only going to consider primes

Because KAJ and Wilt, in their primes, were better at every aspect of the game.

[1987_Lakers]

BTW, A PEAK Walton went 91-31 in his two PEAK seasons.

A PEAK Kareem went 129-35. And a PEAK Chamberlain went 130-33.

All three won one title at their peaks.

Actually Walton went 101-31 despite playing with lesser talent on his team. Nice try trying to lie again though.:oldlol:

[LAZERUSS]

Actually Walton went 101-31 despite playing with lesser talent on his team. Nice try trying to lie again though.:oldlol:

Hmmm, Walton played in 65 and 58 games in his '77 and '78 seasons, and his teams went 92-31 in them.

Furthermore, and at his PEAK, the NBA was at it's WEAKEST period since the '50's.

[LAZERUSS]

If we could take Bruins Bill Walton(greatest college player of all time without question) up until his championship run with the Blazers, ooh man that'd be deadly. That is a great starting five that you have. I think Lebron has a better post game than Bird but Bird is a better shooter, although Lebron is a great shooter too. I dont know, this team is dominant.

I replied to this in another topic, but here it is again...


I have Walton at #2 in college careers, behind, of course, Alcindor (KAJ.)

Walton's teams went 86-4, won two titles, and he won two tourney MVPs.

Kareem was statistically, considerably greater than Walton, and his team's went 88-2 (losing those two games by margins of 71-69 and 46-44.) He won three titles, and three FMVPs.

I would say that Walton's 71-72 team was the greatest college team of all-time, going 30-0 and with a ppg differential of 94.6 to 64.3, or +30.3 (which is the all-time record.) And Walton's championship game in '73 was the greatest single game ever, by anyone. 44 points, on 21-22 shooting, with 13 rebounds.

Kareem's '67 Bruins went 30-0 and had something like a 26 ppg differential, but I would argue that his '68 team, which went 29-1 with again, a 26 ppg differential, was greater than his '67 team. That one loss came against Elvin Hayes' Houston Cougars in the famous astrodome game, 71-69 and in that game Alcindor played partialy blind. The two teams would meet again in the NCAA semi's, and the Bruins just annihilated the Cougars, 101-69 (and the game was nowhere near that close...UCLA led by 44 points mid-way thru the second half.) And Kareem also had a great game in his Final game at UCLA, when he put up a Finals game of 37 points, on 15-20 shooting, with 20 rebounds.

And BOTH Walton and Alcindor would probably have won one more title each, had freshmen been allowed to play at the time (most assuredly Walton would have.)

[LAZERUSS]

I could post Wilt's great games, or streaks, or even entire seasons, until the cows come home, but in my research on his career, I came across this (and keep in mind, that I could probably list even more staggering streaks and stats from his career.)


And once again, for those that rip Wilt's "selfish" "stats-padding", how come he was basically the ONLY one putting up those mind-boggling games? For example, and just using Wilt's 67-68 season (and in which his health was already in a state of at least a small decline), and in a season in which he clearly had no intention of leading the league in scoring, he had three straight games of 68-34 on 30-40 FG/FGA; 47-26 on 19-24 FG/FGA; and 53-38 on 20-23 FG/FGA. And I don't care about his "competition" in those three games, either, since, again, he was the ONLY guy hanging games like that. How come a prime Nate, a still great Bellamy, a still great Russell, and even a prime Reed, never remotely approached a single game like that, much less three in a row (...and with a combined average of... 56 ppg, 33 rpg, and on an unfathomable FG% of .793!)!

And, he had a plethora of other eye-popping games that season, as well. For instance, he put up the ONLY 20-20-20 game in NBA history (22 points, 25 rebounds, and 21 assists.) He had perhaps the most dominating triple-double in NBA history, with a 53 point, on 24-29 FG/FGA, with 32 rebounds, and 14 assists (and with estimates of perhaps a QUIN-DOUBLE.) He pounded the 6-11 HOFer Bellamy with a 35 point game, on 15-18 FG/FGA, with 24 rebounds, and 15 assists (just another smh game.) He had a 35 point, 16-18 FG/FGA, 15 rebound, 10 assist game. He had a 22-27-19 game (just narrowly missed yet another 20-20-20 game.) He hung games of 31-31, 33-31, and 36-35 (giving him a total of EIGHT 30-30 games....just in that one season.)

The list is almost endless, just in that one season alone, and yet, why ONLY Chamberlain? And if we had his known blocks, the list would be littered with not only a staggering number of "triple-doubles", but likely a ton of "quad-doubles" as well.

And once again, before a "basher" jumps in and again claims that Wilt was a "selfish" "stats-padder" in that season, keep in mind that Wilt's Sixers ran away with the best record in the league that season, too.

Again, this was just a small sample of the dominance of a prime Chamberlain.

[LAZERUSS]

All-Time Top-5...

SG: '91 MJ
PG: '87 Magic
PF: '03 Duncan
SF: '13 Lebron
C: '66, '67, or '68 Wilt

Everyone of those players were capable of 30+ point games.

Magic AND Wilt were capable of 20+ assist games (BTW, Chamberlain was by far the greatest passing center in NBA history. And his passers to "cutters" were almost unstoppable.) Duncan, MJ, and Lebron were all quality passers for their positions.

MJ, Duncan, Lebron, and Wilt (ESPECIALLY Wilt) were capable of world class defense (A PEAK Wilt was arguably the equal of Russell.)

MJ was a very good rebounder; Magic was among the greatest rebounders at the guard position of all-time; Duncan was among the best rebounding PF's; and Wilt was, quite simply, the greatest rebounder of all-time.

Scoring, rebounding, passing, and defense. The greatest ever...

[LAZERUSS]

Second Team:

SG: '70 West
PG: '63 Oscar
SF: '86 Bird
PF: '04 KG
C: '71 or '72 KAJ

[Jameerthefear]

I don't know who that is. I don't care.

[LAZERUSS]

I don't know who that is. I don't care.

But everyone here appreciates you taking your valuable time to post on the topic...

[bdreason]

PG: Magic
SG: Jordan
SF: Bird
PF: Duncan
C: Hakeem



That's my All-Time starting five.

[LeBird]

Another thread hijacked by the psycho with a Wilt fetish.

[LAZERUSS]

Another thread hijacked by the psycho with a Wilt fetish.

So YOU would HONESTLY take a peak Walton over a PEAK Kareem, Shaq, Duncan, Russell, Hakeem, Moses, and Wilt?

:roll: :roll: :roll:

[1987_Lakers]

So YOU would HONESTLY take a peak Walton over a PEAK Kareem, Shaq, Duncan, Russell, Hakeem, Moses, and Wilt?

:roll: :roll: :roll:

Who in this thread is claiming Walton was better than those guys?

BTW I would take peak Walton > Moses.

[LAZERUSS]

Who in this thread is claiming Walton was better than those guys?

BTW I would take peak Walton over Moses.

YOU are. You have Walton in your all-time starting five, and at the center position.

And, a PEAK Moses DOMINATED his peers, including a near-prime Kareem.

[LeBird]

So YOU would HONESTLY take a peak Walton over a PEAK Kareem, Shaq, Duncan, Russell, Hakeem, Moses, and Wilt?

:roll: :roll: :roll:

I don't know enough about Walton's peak period in question to really make a stand, hence my question. Yet because someone else has a difference of opinion with you - and I've heard plenty of people talk up '77 Walton, not just 1987_Lakers - you have to come here and start raving about how it's ridiculous to differ. You're missing the point that he's also talking about picking Walton in the context of his team and how he wants them to play.

Everyone knows your schtick already; you talk up guys like KAJ just so you can then segue into fapping about Wilt. Honestly, it's not scholarship to cut and paste points as if they're the be all and end all. If you're as old as you really try to portray, then you need a new hobby.

[LAZERUSS]

I don't know enough about Walton's peak period in question to really make a stand, hence my question. Yet because someone else has a difference of opinion with you - and I've heard plenty of people talk up '77 Walton, not just 1987_Lakers - you have to come here and start raving about how it's ridiculous to differ. You're missing the point that he's also talking about picking Walton in the context of his team and how he wants them to play.

Everyone knows your schtick already; you talk up guys like KAJ just so you can then segue into fapping about Wilt. Honestly, it's not scholarship to cut and paste points as if they're the be all and end all. If you're as old as you really try to portray, then you need a new hobby.

And KAJ and Wilt were better at every aspect of the game...including TEAM play. Again, a PEAK KAJ went 129-35, and a PEAK Wilt went 130-33. A PEAK Walton went 92-31.

[LeBird]

PG: Magic
SG: Jordan
SF: Bird
PF: Duncan
C: Hakeem



That's my All-Time starting five.

Mine's changed to include Lebron.

PG: Magic
SG: Jordan
SF: LeBron
PF: Bird
C: Wilt

I'm not sure this is my top 5 players as at C I am not sure of Wilt over Russell or KAJ. But the others I take fairly comfortably. For me, Bird was always a PF and with a genuine GOAT C there's really not a better pairing for me in those positions. Bird bangs the boards with the best when he wants, provides incredible team defence, and as an offensive threat is on par with basically anyone. His ability to mesh into a team unit without demanding the ball makes him a lock. In a team with so many GOAT-level players, efficiency is key, you don't need any one of them dominating the ball so they need to be able to play without dominating it. I'd let Magic and Lebron handle the ball with Jordan and Bird playing off it, with Wilt hanging near the post.

I also think it's just a matter of time that LeBron joins the GOAT ranks. Legacy aside, talent-wise, he's already there. If I'm putting up a starting 5 to go against any other starting 5, I'd never want to give them any one of these players. The Wilt I have though is the Philly version, who plays within himself, in the team confines, Elite D and a fantastic passer.

[1987_Lakers]

And KAJ and Wilt were better at every aspect of the game...including TEAM play. Again, a PEAK KAJ went 129-35, and a PEAK Wilt went 130-33. A PEAK Walton went 92-31.

Kareem was not a better rebounder or defender than peak Walton.

I also hesitate to put Wilt on my team for his choking tendencies.

[LAZERUSS]

Kareem was not a better rebounder or defender than peak Walton.

I also hesitate to put Wilt on my team for his choking tendencies.

Chamberlain "the choker"...

In his MUST WIN playoff games...

31.1 ppg (THIRD all-time, and just behind Lebron's 31.8 ppg and MJ's 31.3 ppg)
26.4 rpg (and he ALWAYS outrebounded RUSSELL)
.540 FG% (in an era which shot .435 on average)

The "choking" Wilt who had THREE 50+ point games in his MUST-WIN games? The "choker" who had FIVE 40+ point games in MUST WIN post-season games (including one in the Finals)? The "choking" Wilt who SHELLED his OPPOSING CENTERS on the glass in EVERY one of his 29 post-season series?

AND, the Chamberlain ROUTINELY held his OPPOSING CENTERS to WAY BELOW their normal FG%'s?

A Wilt in his SIX Finals... .559 FG%...and his OPPOSING CENTERS... .439?

A PRIME Wilt averaged 30 ppg, 27 rpg, 4.5 apg, and shot .515 from the floor (in league's that shot about .420 in the same span), and most likely 8+ bpg?

Go ahead and give me YOUR list of "GOATs" who had even ONE 30-27-5-8 .515 FG% series (and outshooting the league average by nearly 10% in the process), AND also holding their opposing centers to WAY UNDER their normal FG%'s, all while CRUSHING them on the glass.

A way past his prime Wilt, only a year removed from major knee surgery that statistically outplayed a PEAK Kareem in his greatest season? Or the 35 year old Wilt, that by virtually all accounts, outplayed a PEAK Kareem in the '72 WCF's, and then DOMINATED the HOF-laden Knicks in the Finals...en route to a FMVP?

Or a PRIME Wilt who single-handedly took a 40-40 team to a game seven, one point loss against a PRIME Russell, and a Celtic team which was at it's PEAK? And in that series, this "choker" Wilt averaged 30.1 ppg, 31.4 rpg, and shot .555 from the floor...which included a game SEVEN of 30 points, 32 rebounds, and on an .800 FG%?

Or the PRIME Wilt who just SHELLED a prime Russell in the '67 ECF's, and crushed the 8-time defending Celtics, 4-1 (and were four points away from a SWEEP in game four)?

You mean THAT "choker" Wilt?

[LAZERUSS]

Kareem was not a better rebounder or defender than peak Walton.

I also hesitate to put Wilt on my team for his choking tendencies.

VERY debatable.

Walton's TRB% is elevated because he could only play 35 mpg. And a PEAK Kareem had THREE seasons of 16.0 rpg, 16.6 rpg, and 16.9 rpg. All while scoring 30+ ppg.

Defense?

Kareem achored the Bucks from '71 thru '74, and on teams that were CLEARLY the best defensive teams of their era, and perhaps of all-time.

Maybe Walton has a slight edge in either category, but a PEAK Kareem was FAR more dominant overall. Much like a PEAK Moses, who just annihilated teams single-handedly.

[SHAQisGOAT]

Another thread hijacked by the psycho with a Wilt fetish.

Pretty much :facepalm Usual and expected at this point, though.

BTW I don't have Walton on my all-time starting 5, at least if I'm picking the best players at each position, but I totally get 1987_Lakers' stand on picking him due to his strengths and team context, Walton also had one of the GOAT peaks at center and terrific overall intangibles so...

[1987_Lakers]

VERY debatable.

Walton's TRB% is elevated because he could only play 35 mpg. And a PEAK Kareem had THREE seasons of 16.0 rpg, 16.6 rpg, and 16.9 rpg. All while scoring 30+ ppg.

Defense?

Kareem achored the Bucks from '71 thru '74, and on teams that were CLEARLY the best defensive teams of their era, and perhaps of all-time.

Walton averaged more rebounds than Kareem in both '77 & '78 despite playing lesser minutes than Kareem. Walton was also voted on the All-Defensive First team over Kareem in both '77 & '78, that should tell you who the better defender was.

To me Kareem's peak was anywhere from '71-'78. I personally feel his '77 season was his best. You mention how Kareem averaged 16 rpg like its some amazing feat, it is impressive but you didn't mention how he played at a faster pace in the early 70's. As a matter of fact Kareem's TRB% stays pretty much the same from 71-78, he actually had a higher TRB% in '77 than he did in both '72 & '73. 1977 was the same year Walton out-rebounded Kareem despite playing lesser minutes.

'71 Bucks pace in '71: 113.4
'77 Lakers pace in '77: 104.7

'71 Bucks opponent FG attempts: 8224
'77 Lakers opponent FG attempts: 7781

This proves that Kareem had more chances at rebounds earlier in his career because of a faster pace which would explain why he has a higher RPG average. Kareem maintained the same rebounding ability from 71-78. Honestly, do you really feel like Russell & Chamberlain would be grabbing 20 rpg if they played in today's game? No, simply because today's game is played at a much slower pace.

My point is that individual stats from the 60's & early 70's are inflated. And you posting all these amazing "godly" stats from Wilt & Kareem is not impressing me. Before this post gets taken out of context let me just say that I believe both Wilt & Kareem are all-time greats and better individual players than Walton was. I just have Walton on my team for the simple "team" concept. You already saw a little of the Walton & Bird chemistry & passing in '86, now imagine a peak Walton in the mix.

[pauk]

Not at all, the best starting 5 is the roster who has the best complementary players from top to bottom, the most talented starting 5 at each position will not necessarily be the most successful...

[ArbitraryWater]

Who in this thread is claiming Walton was better than those guys?

BTW I would take peak Walton > Moses.

If you don't think he is better than why would you start an inferior player?

Or do you simply think he meshes better with this team, the inferior player?

[stanlove1111]

Hmmm, Walton played in 65 and 58 games in his '77 and '78 seasons, and his teams went 92-31 in them.

Furthermore, and at his PEAK, the NBA was at it's WEAKEST period since the '50's.

Are you aware that there is this thing called the playoffs that usually follows the regular season?

[stanlove1111]

PG - '87 Magic
SG - '91 Jordan
SF - '13 LeBron
PF - '86 Bird
C - '77 Walton

I think this is a perfect team. Inane passers in Magic, LeBron, & Walton. Magic & Jordan are not great 3 point shooters, but LeBron can hit that shot, & I have Bird as a stretch 4, Bird can also rebound at a great level which is why I am comfortable with him at the 4. I know people like having dominant scoring centers on their teams, but I already have insane scorers and Walton is a perfect center who can rim protect, rebound, & play in a team concept at an elite level.


Not crazy at all. At his best he might have been the best around and most valuable center ever..His teams dominated the league with him in the lineup and sucked without him..How many players can you say that about?

[Psileas]

Curious about this, OP (and others): When you started thinking about your all-time team, who was the first and last player of this list you thought about? It seems interesting to me that lots of people, when asked to create an elite "functional" team (=not their GOAT from each position), routinely pick the very highest SG and SF scorers they can think, then add a non-high scoring center who would just be willing enough to "play defense and mesh with the team". Curiously enough, I don't see many starting their teams with a high scoring center (Kareem, Wilt, Shaq, Hakeem) who would be complemented with a somewhat lesser scoring SG or SF (Havlicek, Moncrief, Pippen, Drexler, prime Grant Hill) who will do the analogous thing with a "complementary" (so to speak) center.

[T_L_P]

KAJ & O'Neil are the only guys on that list better than '76-77 Bill Walton. Olajuwon & Duncan get a maybe. I leave out Russell because I never saw him til he got old. Get back to me when Barkley can play the 5 against those guys. And no, not Robinson, either.

You guys need to get on over it about Walton. He ruled the court end of story.

Duncan and Hakeem are hardly maybes. Both had better statistical runs, and I don't think Walton did anything from a non-statistical standpoint that neither Duncan nor Hakeem did (all three played some of the best defense ever). And Hakeem/Duncan definitely didn't have a guy averaging 21/10/4 on their side. :confusedshrug:

[bizil]

Bill Walton's peak is among the top 5 centers in the all around sense of ALL TIME! Right there Wilt, Kareem, The Dream, and Robinson. Of that bunch, I think Walton is the best passer. So it makes sense for him to appear on MANY personal All-Time starting centers list. U could make an EASY case he's the msot technically-fundamentally sound center of all time. What Duncan is to the PF position is what Walton is to the center position. But in the strict GOAT sense, Walton is more of a top 15 to 20 center of all time.

[1987_Lakers]

If you ever catch a Blazers game from '77 and '78, you will notice several things that don't show up on the stat sheet for Walton, 1) no other player to me (aside from Russell who has very limited footage available) contested more shots than Walton. Key word is contested, not blocking. Walton would jump out at perimeter players 15 feet out if he thought he could change their shot. His activity on defense during the '77 finals is unbelievable. 2) He was the coach on the floor, not Ramsay. Most of the time when the team is running up the floor, Walton is the one reading the situation, throwing up signals to call the plays. And on defense, you can see him positioning his teammates to where they should be. That type of leadership is invaluable. 3) The entire "team" philosophy of those Blazer teams started and ended with Walton. They were a talented sure (Maurice Lucas still led them to 45 wins and playoffs the following season without Walton), but it was Walton's presence which brought the ball movement that got everybody involved (striking guards on cuts, directing ball to Lucas when he had good position etc).

And by the way, Walton was doing the dreamshake before Hakeem even picked up a basketball...
http://i30.tinypic.com/hwmzwo.jpg

...

[LAZERUSS]

Are you aware that there is this thing called the playoffs that usually follows the regular season?


Ok, add Walton's post-season in '76-77, when his Blazers went 14-5. And I suppose you won't count an injured Walton going 1-1 in the '77-78 post-season, so we will add that 14-5 to 92-31... 106-36.

Need to do the same for KAJ and Wilt, as well.

KAJ's 70-71 and 71-72 Bucks went 129-35 in their regular seasons. Add in KAJ's 12-2 run in '71, and his 6-5 record in '72, and his Bucks went 147-42.

Now, how about Wilt's PEAK. His '67 and '68 Sixers went 130-33. His '67 Sixers went 11-4. And his '68 Sixers went 7-6...BUT, he played the EDF's with an assortment of injuries (every minute of every game BTW) that would have had Walton in intensive care for a month. so, like Walton, we will excuse Wilt's '68 EDF's. So we will add his 15-6 playoff record to 130-33...and... 145-39.

A PEAK Walton: 106-36... .746.

A PEAK Kareem: 147-42... .778.

a PEAK Wilt: 145-39... .788.

[La Frescobaldi]

Not crazy at all. At his best he might have been the best around and most valuable center ever..His teams dominated the league with him in the lineup and sucked without him..How many players can you say that about?

very, very few. Dude really was just amazing in his days

[La Frescobaldi]

Duncan and Hakeem are hardly maybes. Both had better statistical runs, and I don't think Walton did anything from a non-statistical standpoint that neither Duncan nor Hakeem did (all three played some of the best defense ever). And Hakeem/Duncan definitely didn't have a guy averaging 21/10/4 on their side. :confusedshrug:

We can disagree and still have a great day. I loved both those guys; I just think Walton did more on the court.
Duncan is closer than Olajuwon, tbrh.

[SHAQisGOAT]

...

Great quote, great points that I agree with.

Oh and btw, Pistol Pete was doing that even before Walton (and way before Hakeem, so on...): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kq1oUk7sgRY&t=0m39s
http://i.imgflip.com/2381r.gif

Speaking of it, you got some great players who had their peak season in 1977, can make a great team out of it (if only using a player for the year they've peaked)... Kareem, Walton (due to injuries), Maravich, Bobby Jones, can also say the same for Jo Jo White.

[stanlove1111]

Originally Posted by fatal9

If you ever catch a Blazers game from '77 and '78, you will notice several things that don't show up on the stat sheet for Walton, 1) no other player to me (aside from Russell who has very limited footage available) contested more shots than Walton. Key word is contested, not blocking. Walton would jump out at perimeter players 15 feet out if he thought he could change their shot. His activity on defense during the '77 finals is unbelievable. 2) He was the coach on the floor, not Ramsay. Most of the time when the team is running up the floor, Walton is the one reading the situation, throwing up signals to call the plays. And on defense, you can see him positioning his teammates to where they should be. That type of leadership is invaluable. 3) The entire "team" philosophy of those Blazer teams started and ended with Walton. They were a talented sure (Maurice Lucas still led them to 45 wins and playoffs the following season without Walton), but it was Walton's presence which brought the ball movement that got everybody involved (striking guards on cuts, directing ball to Lucas when he had good position etc).




Great post..Stats obsessed guys don't understand basketball and for sure would not understand this. Jabbar put it perfectly when talking about Walton's defense. he said Walton played ALOT of defense and I think he played more defense then anyone I ever saw including Russell..

Stats won't show how great of a passer Walton was and he was easily the best passing big man ever. There are no stats for outlet passes to start the break and Walton was the best ever at this. There are no stats for hitting cutters going to the basket that are so wide open you have to foul them to put them on the line. There are no stats to measure the impact of your opponent's whole defensive scheme being geared around trying to stop Walton from passing them to death. To do that you have to play off the other players so they can't cut which makes it much easier for them to get jump shots. NO big man has ever done that..


Stats obsessed guys wound never understand something like this..

[stanlove1111]

Ok, add Walton's post-season in '76-77, when his Blazers went 14-5. And I suppose you won't count an injured Walton going 1-1 in the '77-78 post-season, so we will add that 14-5 to 92-31... 106-36.

Need to do the same for KAJ and Wilt, as well.

KAJ's 70-71 and 71-72 Bucks went 129-35 in their regular seasons. Add in KAJ's 12-2 run in '71, and his 6-5 record in '72, and his Bucks went 147-42.

Now, how about Wilt's PEAK. His '67 and '68 Sixers went 130-33. His '67 Sixers went 11-4. And his '68 Sixers went 7-6...BUT, he played the EDF's with an assortment of injuries (every minute of every game BTW) that would have had Walton in intensive care for a month. so, like Walton, we will excuse Wilt's '68 EDF's. So we will add his 15-6 playoff record to 130-33...and... 145-39.

A PEAK Walton: 106-36... .746.

A PEAK Kareem: 147-42... .778.

a PEAK Wilt: 145-39... .788.
Just like you to be narrow minded and only look at simple stats...Putting Wilt in there is a joke..Look at the team around him....And not counting his EDF is a side splitter..Walton didn't play in the games I don't count, Wilt did play in the EDF.


Kareem maybe..

[kshutts1]

PG - '87 Magic
SG - '91 Jordan
SF - '13 LeBron
PF - '86 Bird
C - '77 Walton

I think this is a perfect team. Inane passers in Magic, LeBron, & Walton. Magic & Jordan are not great 3 point shooters, but LeBron can hit that shot, & I have Bird as a stretch 4, Bird can also rebound at a great level which is why I am comfortable with him at the 4. I know people like having dominant scoring centers on their teams, but I already have insane scorers and Walton is a perfect center who can rim protect, rebound, & play in a team concept at an elite level.
Your team, so your rules, so never crazy. Not to mention, listing specific years makes it obvious that you don't care about the entirety of said player's career, which makes Walton a much better choice.

Only bad part of your OP is calling it a perfect team. That implies there's nothing that could be done to improve it. Obviously going a little technical there.

[LAZERUSS]

Just like you to be narrow minded and only look at simple stats...Putting Wilt in there is a joke..Look at the team around him....And not counting his EDF is a side splitter..Walton didn't play in the games I don't count, Wilt did play in the EDF.


Kareem maybe..

:roll: :roll: :roll:

Chamberlain was FAR more dominant in both '67 and '68, than Walton was in '77 and '78.

And his '67 Sixers BLEW AWAY a 60-21 Celtic team that had a massive 7-4 edge in HOF teammates, and was, along with the '63 Celtics, the deepest in NBA history. And he absolutely CRUSHED Dierking, Russell, and Thurmond in his three playoff series.

And again, Wilt PLAYED in the '68 EDF's with an ASSORTMENT of injuries, (and 48 mpg BTW), including a similar injury as to what Reed suffered in the '70 Finals, and which basically made him a statue.

But, for the record, his TEAM, even without HOFer Billy Cunningham, who would miss the entire series, was STILL up on Boston, 3-1, before TWO more starters went down in game five.

Thanks to PHILA's research, this is what we KNOW about that series...

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9328011&postcount=14

and

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9328006&postcount=13

That's SEVEN of their EIGHT key players that were either playing with crippling injuries, including Wilt himself, or missing the entire series altogether. Oh, and with all of that, Boston eked out a game seven, four point win.

CLEARLY, a healthy Sixer squad repeats their BLOWOUT of the Celtics in the '67 EDF's.

Of course, had Walton been saddled with even half the injuries Wilt had in the '68 EDF's, he would have been in a bed in ICU.


As for PASSING, Wilt was THE greatest passing center of all-time, and by a HUGE margin. Hell, in his '66 season, in a year in which he led the NBA in scoring at 33.5 ppg, he STILL averaged 5.2 apg. And no other center, at any time in NBA history, has ever averaged more than 5.8 apg...and yet Chamberlain had TWO seasons of 7.8 and 8.6 (and LED the league in assists.) And he was just as dominant in both of those post-seasons, as well (9.0 and 6.5 apg.)

Furthermore, Wilt anchored the '72 Lakers FAST BREAK, a team that averaged 121 ppg in a league that averaged 110. The '77 Blazers averaged 111.7 in a league that averaged 106.5. And even with a healthy Walton in '78, the Blazers averaged 110.4 ppg in a league that averaged 108.5 ppg.

And Wilt's '67 and '68 Sixers also ran away with the highest scoring teams in the league at 125.2 ppg and 122.6 ppg (in leagues that averaged 117.4 ppg and 116.6 ppg.)

BTW, we only have about 2% of Wilt's NBA career on video, but here is a small sampling...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWHKZlQ9x7Q

He was making those over-the-head, and behind-the-back passes to cutters multiple times PER GAME in his career.

A PEAK Chamberlain was quite simply, a MUCH better player than a PEAK Walton.

[La Frescobaldi]

Originally Posted by fatal9

If you ever catch a Blazers game from '77 and '78, you will notice several things that don't show up on the stat sheet for Walton, 1) no other player to me (aside from Russell who has very limited footage available) contested more shots than Walton. Key word is contested, not blocking. Walton would jump out at perimeter players 15 feet out if he thought he could change their shot. His activity on defense during the '77 finals is unbelievable. 2) He was the coach on the floor, not Ramsay. Most of the time when the team is running up the floor, Walton is the one reading the situation, throwing up signals to call the plays. And on defense, you can see him positioning his teammates to where they should be. That type of leadership is invaluable. 3) The entire "team" philosophy of those Blazer teams started and ended with Walton. They were a talented sure (Maurice Lucas still led them to 45 wins and playoffs the following season without Walton), but it was Walton's presence which brought the ball movement that got everybody involved (striking guards on cuts, directing ball to Lucas when he had good position etc).




Great post..Stats obsessed guys don't understand basketball and for sure would not understand this. Jabbar put it perfectly when talking about Walton's defense. he said Walton played ALOT of defense and I think he played more defense then anyone I ever saw including Russell..

Stats won't show how great of a passer Walton was and he was easily the best passing big man ever. There are no stats for outlet passes to start the break and Walton was the best ever at this. There are no stats for hitting cutters going to the basket that are so wide open you have to foul them to put them on the line. There are no stats to measure the impact of your opponent's whole defensive scheme being geared around trying to stop Walton from passing them to death. To do that you have to play off the other players so they can't cut which makes it much easier for them to get jump shots. NO big man has ever done that..


Stats obsessed guys wound never understand something like this..

fatal9 had been a fairly good poster at one time but then he went into this completely stupid 'chamberlain didn't have even a 24 inch vertical' mode which remained his constant rant on ish until he saw this clip about 3 years ago:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QF8yJ1J1W7Q

and he has literally never been seen nor heard of since.
****************************************

We pretty much agree about Walton.

[stanlove1111]

:roll: :roll: :roll:

Chamberlain was FAR more dominant in both '67 and '68, than Walton was in '77 and '78.

And his '67 Sixers BLEW AWAY a 60-21 Celtic team that had a massive 7-4 edge in HOF teammates, and was, along with the '63 Celtics, the deepest in NBA history. And he absolutely CRUSHED Dierking, Russell, and Thurmond in his three playoff series.

And again, Wilt PLAYED in the '68 EDF's with an ASSORTMENT of injuries, (and 48 mpg BTW), including a similar injury as to what Reed suffered in the '70 Finals, and which basically made him a statue.

But, for the record, his TEAM, even without HOFer Billy Cunningham, who would miss the entire series, was STILL up on Boston, 3-1, before TWO more starters went down in game five.

Thanks to PHILA's research, this is what we KNOW about that series...

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9328011&postcount=14

and

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9328006&postcount=13

That's SEVEN of their EIGHT key players that were either playing with crippling injuries, including Wilt himself, or missing the entire series altogether. Oh, and with all of that, Boston eked out a game seven, four point win.

CLEARLY, a healthy Sixer squad repeats their BLOWOUT of the Celtics in the '67 EDF's.

Of course, had Walton been saddled with even half the injuries Wilt had in the '68 EDF's, he would have been in a bed in ICU.


As for PASSING, Wilt was THE greatest passing center of all-time, and by a HUGE margin. Hell, in his '66 season, in a year in which he led the NBA in scoring at 33.5 ppg, he STILL averaged 5.2 apg. And no other center, at any time in NBA history, has ever averaged more than 5.8 apg...and yet Chamberlain had TWO seasons of 7.8 and 8.6 (and LED the league in assists.) And he was just as dominant in both of those post-seasons, as well (9.0 and 6.5 apg.)

Furthermore, Wilt anchored the '72 Lakers FAST BREAK, a team that averaged 121 ppg in a league that averaged 110. The '77 Blazers averaged 111.7 in a league that averaged 106.5. And even with a healthy Walton in '78, the Blazers averaged 110.4 ppg in a league that averaged 108.5 ppg.

And Wilt's '67 and '68 Sixers also ran away with the highest scoring teams in the league at 125.2 ppg and 122.6 ppg (in leagues that averaged 117.4 ppg and 116.6 ppg.)

BTW, we only have about 2% of Wilt's NBA career on video, but here is a small sampling...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWHKZlQ9x7Q

He was making those over-the-head, and behind-the-back passes to cutters multiple times PER GAME in his career.

A PEAK Chamberlain was quite simply, a MUCH better player than a PEAK Walton.

Basically stopped reading when I saw it was once again only stats you are talking about..

[LAZERUSS]

Just like you to be narrow minded and only look at simple stats...Putting Wilt in there is a joke..Look at the team around him....And not counting his EDF is a side splitter..Walton didn't play in the games I don't count, Wilt did play in the EDF.


Kareem maybe..

And the closet Wilt-basher emerges again.



Basically stopped reading when I saw it was once again only stats you are talking about..





Ok, let's get real here. You want IMPACT?

Wilt SINGLE-HANDEDLY took what had been a LAST PLACE team when he arrived to a 49-26 record in his rookie sason, and smashed records along the way. In that first post-season he SINGLE-HANDEDLY carried that pathetic roster past the Nats, which included an at-the-limit game three of 53 points and 22 rebounds. And had he not injured his hand at the end of game two, and played poorly in games three and four, who knows how the EDF's would have gone? Overall, and with zero help, he plastered Russell in that series with a 30 ppg, 27 rpg, .500 FG% (in a post-season that shot .402 overall) run. In a must-win game five, he blew a helpless Russell apart with a 50-35 game. And in game six, and with a far inferior supporting cast, he carries his team to a two point loss. A ROOKIE Wilt not only wins ROY, but easily wins the MVP as well.

Walton's rookie campaign? He is drafted by a 27-55 team that jumps to a 38-44 record. BUT, when Walton plays they could only go 12-23 and without him they go 26-21.

Where are Walton's 50-25 seasons? Where are Walton's 45-24 seasons? Where are Walton's multiple 30-20 seasons. Or a season in which he led the league in scoring, rebounding, and FG% (and Wilt accomplished that feat THREE times.) Or a Walton with a 34-25-5 season? Or a Walton with a 24-24-8 .683 season? Or Walton's 24-24-9 .595 season?

Find me Walton's playoff run where he takes what had been a LAST-PLACE team, now older and worse, thru the fiirst round of the playoffs, which included an at-the-limit game of 56 points and 35 rebounds, to a game seven, two point loss against a 60-20 HOF-stacked roster in the conference finals. Oh, and in that entire post-season run, Wilt's teammates collectively shot.. .354. Find me a post-season series in which Walton had so little help.

Find me a series in which Walton took a 40-40 team, that had been 34-46 the year before Wilt arrived, to a game seven, one point loss against a 62-18 HOF-laden team. And in that seventh game "the choker" put up a 30-32 .800 FG% game, which included scoring Philly's last six points, and crushing Russell with a dunk at the five second mark. And the "clutch" Russell then hit a guidewire with his inbounds pass, giving the Sixers a chance to pull off the greatest upset in NBA playoff history. But, as always, Russell's TEAMMATES saved his ass. And in the seven games... 30.1 ppg, 31.4 rpg, and a .555 FG% against whom many have called the greatest defensive center (and player) in NBA history. BTW, and before Wilt arrived in mid-season in '65, the Sixers in their 63-64 and 64-65 seasonal H2H's with Boston and Cincinnati went 3-12 and 4-13 respectively against those two teams. In the '65 post-season, they stomped the 48-32 Royals, 3-1, and then again, took the 62-18 Celtics to a game seven, one point loss. Now that is true IMPACT!


You want HEART? Find me the seasons in which Walton was plagued with injuries, and in which he CAME BACK from major knee surgery about a YEAR ahead of schedule, and then not only PLAYED, but DOMINATED, like Chamberlain did in the '70 post-season. The bashers, with you among them, never bring up the fact that a one-legged Wilt brought his Lakers back from a 3-1 series deficit with three straight staggering games, including the clinching game seven of 30-27-6-10. Or the Wilt who took his huge under-dog Lakers, again on one-leg, to a game seven loss against the HOF-laden 60-22 Knicks...and in a series in which he put up a 23-24-4 .625. Included was a must-win game six of 45 points, on 20-27 shooting, with 27 rebounds.

Or the Wilt who already had a badly sprained wrist on one hand, and who courageously played every minute of an OT game in game four of the '72 Finals, and who blocked two shots in OT while playing with five fouls, and then, who, in that same game, BROKE his other wrist. Did Wilt pack it in after that? Hell no, he went on in the clinching game five, and DESTROYED the Knicks with a 24-29- 8 block game, en route to a FMVP.

Where are the tales of Walton playing every minute of a seven game series with this list of injuries...arthritic knees, a strained hamstring, a bum toe, and...a partial tear in his right calf (a similar injury to what reduced Reed to a statue in the last three games of the '70 Finals)? A HEALTHY Walton would give you 35 minutes a night. An INJURED Chamberlain could give you 48+.

Where are the FMVPs for a 35 year old Walton? How about a 36 year old Walton having a dominant post-season run, and again taking an injury-plagued team to the Finals?

Where are Walton's FOUR MVPs (and really SHOULD have been at least SIX)? Where are Walton's back-to-back 68-13 and 62-20 runs? Or an 35 year old Walton leading his team to a 69-13 mark, which included 33 straight wins and a dominating world title?

We all know that a prime Kareem just slaughtered a helpless and PRIME Walton in the '77 WCF's. How come a PRIME Walton couldn't OUTPLAY a PEAK Kareem like a 34 year old Wilt, on a surgically repaired knee, did in the '71 WCF's?

And where are the absolute crushing dominations of his peers like a PRIME Chamberlain carpet-bombed his PRIME HOF peers with?

Forget the numbers themselves...where are Walton's HUNDREDS of NBA RECORDS, including a TON in the POST-SEASON? And how many "Anti-Walton" RULES were created in an attempt to curtail his absolute domination of the league?

Aside from FT shooting, Wilt was MUCH better at EVERY other aspect of the game. And even in FT shooting, Wilt's IMPACT was FAR greater. In walton's best season he made 228 FTs. Chamberlain AVERAGED 432 MADE per season, which included the second greatest season in NBA history with 835.

At EVERY other area of the game, Wilt was MUCH better. Where are Walton's SEVEN scoring titles (and a cumulative 40 ppg average)? How about ELEVEN rebounding titles, and quite simply, being the best ever, INCLUDING the POST-SEASON? How about NINE FG% titles? How many times did Walton come in THIRD in assists, much less FIRST? Blocked shots? Walton's high, in 33 games, was 3.6. In his best "relatively full time" season, he was at 3.2. My god, a 36 year old Wilt, just FOUR years prior to that season, averaged 5.4. And by all educated estimates, he had seasons of at least 8+, and perhaps even double-digits.

Defense? A peak Walton was voted first team all-defense twice. Chamberlain, in his LAST two seasons, was voted first-team all-defense, and the reality was, a mid-60's (and PRIME) Wilt, and thru the end of that decade, was the best defensive player in the league.

Again, this suggestion that anyone would take a prime Walton over a prime Wilt is ludicrous. And it doesn't stop with Wilt, either. A prime KAJ, a prime Russell, a prime Hakeem, a prime Shaq, a prime Duncan, and a prime Moses were all better players...plain-and-simple.

[1987_Lakers]

As for PASSING, Wilt was THE greatest passing center of all-time, and by a HUGE margin.

:roll:

[1987_Lakers]

Just thought Id throw this out...Bill Walton has the highest DRB% in NBA History.
(Defensive Rebounding Percentage)

1. Walton | 30.2
2. Rodman | 29.6
2. D. Howard | 29.2

Walton's rebounding ability is extremely underrated, you have people saying he had Bill Russell type defense, & he is the greatest passing big man ever. Dude was the perfect center.

[Lakers Legend#32]

Not crazy at all. If Walton could have stayed healthy, he would have been the greatest player of all time.

[JellyBean]

PG - '87 Magic
SG - '91 Jordan
SF - '13 LeBron
PF - '86 Bird
C - '77 Walton

I think this is a perfect team. Inane passers in Magic, LeBron, & Walton. Magic & Jordan are not great 3 point shooters, but LeBron can hit that shot, & I have Bird as a stretch 4, Bird can also rebound at a great level which is why I am comfortable with him at the 4. I know people like having dominant scoring centers on their teams, but I already have insane scorers and Walton is a perfect center who can rim protect, rebound, & play in a team concept at an elite level.

Nope. U are not crazy for having Walton on your starting five. It is your list. Do with it what ever u want.

[colts19]

I would never argue that Walton was a better player than Wilt, Russell, kareem or Shaq. I will however say that from a pure basketball system point of view, I enjoyed watching him more than any other Center ever.It was just beautiful to watch. He may have been the Greatest team player ever. Just MHO.

[LAZERUSS]

:roll:

Laughable?

Hmmm...

I can PROVE that Wilt was the greatest PASSING center in NBA history, INCLUDING the FAST BREAK OUTLET.

Walton has NO case, and is not even REMOTELY CLOSE to Wilt as a PASSER.

[LAZERUSS]

Just thought Id throw this out...Bill Walton has the highest DRB% in NBA History.
(Defensive Rebounding Percentage)

1. Walton | 30.2
2. Rodman | 29.6
2. D. Howard | 29.2

Walton's rebounding ability is extremely underrated, you have people saying he had Bill Russell type defense, & he is the greatest passing big man ever. Dude was the perfect center.

Of course we don't have Wilt's (or Russell's) Defensive TRB%. But we know that Wilt had post-seasons of 24+ TRB%.

And, against RUSSELL, in the '67 EDF's, Wilt had three games of 27%, 28%, and a staggering 31% TRB% (BTW, he outrebounded Russell in those three games by margins of 32-15, 36-21, and 41-29.)

We also know that Chamberlain accomplished his TRB%'s while logging 48+ mpg. Unlike Walton, who had one post-season at 39.7 mpg (and never another one of more than 24.8 mpg), and never a regular season of over 34.8 mpg. Of course the Wilt-bashers will never bring that FACT up.

Chamberlain was playing Russell-type defense, crushing EVERYONE on the glass, and all while massively outscoring and outshooting them. Oh, and he was STILL capable of the HIGHEST APG by any center (and again, by a HUGE margin.)

BTW, as a small sample of what a prime Wilt was capable of...

In his last 12 games of the '67-68 season, he had had ELEVEN "Triple Doubles" (and had blocks been officially recorded, who knows how many "quads"), and in the one that he didn't, he missed it by ONE assist. He had TEN games in that streak with at 20+ points, FOUR of which were 30+, and a high game of 53-32-14 (on 24-29 FG/FGA.) Overall, he averaged 27.6 ppg, 23.4 rpg, 12.3 apg, and shot .694 from the floor.

[SHAQisGOAT]

Basically stopped reading when I saw it was once again only stats you are talking about..

As usual... And ruining another thread, as usual too.

[LAZERUSS]

As usual... And ruining another thread, as usual too.

The entire topic was a joke. But, yes, he WAS crazy for suggesting that Walton is THE all-time starting center. There is a substantial list of far more qualified centers.

And what is even more ridiculous, is that Walton didn't even have a TWO-YEAR prime. He started 142 games in those two years (including the post-season.) And in those, he averaged 34.8 mpg. Yes, he was a 35 mpg player at his PEAK.

Furthermore, in his ONLY playoff run in that time, they defeated a 44-38 Bulls team (in a series in which Gilmore outscored and outrebounded Walton BTW), a 50-32 Nuggets team, a 53-29 Laker team that was missing TWO key players (and Kareem just waxed Walton in that series to boot), and a 50-32 Sixers team in the Finals. This was NOT some epic playoff run. A year later, and with Walton, as usual injured, a 44-38 Bullets team would beat a 47-35 Sonics team in seven games for the title.

That Sixer team was nowhere as talented as the Sixers' teams of the early to mid-80's, either. And look at what Walton "dominated" in that Finals. The two-headed "monster" of Caldwell Jones and Darryl Dawkins, a two-some that collectively averaged 11.3 ppg and 12.0 rpg during the regular season, and who would average 12.8 ppg and 14.2 rpg in the Finals.

And again, a prime (but not peak) Kareem, just mopped the floor with Walton. Walton was hanging on for dear life in that series, and it was LUCAS who led the Blazers to a series win over the talent-less Lakers. And the footage is there. All anyone needs to do is watch. Walton had no chance one-on-one. And even double-teaming didn't do any good. They finally resorted to just plain swarming Kareem, and he STILL pounded them. One more damned time, swap rosters, and it would have been Kareem going to the Finals (and likely putting up huge numbers against the Sixers centers), while Walton would have been on the receiving end of a blowout sweep.

[SHAQisGOAT]

The entire topic was a joke. But, yes, he WAS crazy for suggesting that Walton is THE all-time starting center. There is a substantial list of far more qualified centers.


On his all-time starting 5, on HIS team :facepalm He just said that on his all-time starting 5 he sees that peak Walton would be the better fit, better for the TEAM, better in that "context", to maximize it and keep it place, let's say... And tbh, "looking" at peak Walton, I agree. I didn't even see him claim Walton had the GOAT peak at C or something, give it a rest, mad at everything :facepalm

[LAZERUSS]

On his all-time starting 5, on HIS team :facepalm He just said that on his all-time starting 5 he sees that peak Walton would be the better fit, better for the TEAM, better in that "context", to maximize it and keep it place, let's say... And tbh, "looking" at peak Walton, I agree. I didn't even see him claim Walton had the GOAT peak at C or something, give it a rest, mad at everything :facepalm

Well, he ASKED. On HIS ALL-TIME team. And YES, he IS crazy for even suggesting it. It is a slap in the face of far more qualified players.

[1987_Lakers]

Well, he ASKED. On HIS ALL-TIME team. And YES, he IS crazy for even suggesting it. It is a slap in the face of far more qualified players.

Yet if someone put Russell on their team you wouldn't even make a big deal out of it despite peak Walton playing on a similar level.:oldlol:

Bob Ryan (arguably the most respected sportswriter ever) if I'm not mistaken said he would choose a healthy Walton over any other center in history, this is a guy who has been covering the Celtics for 45 years.

John Wooden made a similar statement saying a healthy Walton is the best player he ever coached. (a guy who also coached Kareem)

Yet, I'm the one who is crazy.:oldlol:

[KNOW1EDGE]

If that's who you like.

I don't think he gives you the best chance to win.

Arvydas Sabonis in his prime was a better player than Bill Walton.

[1987_Lakers]

jlauber aka LAZERUSS you are truly a joke. Look how he is licking Walton's balls in these threads...


I still remember Walton's soph year at UCLA. Coming into that season he was highly touted, but most pre-season mags had other players ranked ahead of him (like Tom Riker and Tom McMillen.) That 71-72 UCLA team became, IMHO, the greatest team in college basketball history. They not only went 30-0, they destroyed their opponents by an average margin of 98-64.

Of course, in Walton's next year he played in an NCAA Finals game, that, IMHO, was the greatest game ever by a collegian. 44 points on 21-22 shooting.

And, while UCLA did not win the NC in his senior season, I have long maintained that they were the best team in the country. They opened up that season by pounding NC St., 84-66...a team that they would lose to in the NCAA Semis, in double OT after blowing a seven point lead in the first OT. They also had their 88 game winning streak snapped by Notre Dame, 71-70, when they were outscored by a 12-0 margin in the last few minutes. They did avenge that loss a couple of weeks later at Pauley Pavilion, blasting the Irish by 19 points (and leading by as much as 28.)

Walton was perhaps the most fundamentally sound big man I have ever seen. I have compared him with Russell, albeit, not quite the defender or rebounder, but a more efficient offensive player. He was a brilliant passer...both in the post, and with his outlet passes.

If he had not been injured in the '77-78 season, I am convinced that they would have repeated. As ShaqAttack pointed out, they went 48-10 with him (I believe that they were 50-10 when he went down), and stumbled the rest of the season, including a first round playoff exit. And given the relatively weak NBA in 78-79, I think a healthy Portland team would have three-peated. Which, as ShaqAttack pointed out, would have set up a monumental clash with LA in Magic's rookie season (79-80.)

What could have been...


And while I really hate racial comparisons...another what-if scenario could have developed into the 80's, as well. Perhaps a healthy Walton might have been considered a better player than Bird. Obviously we will never know, but Walton certainly had the potential to be a top-10 player.

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=200707

Now here he is in this thread despising Walton for whatever reason...:oldlol:

[1987_Lakers]

I think that those that actually saw Walton, at his uninjured peak, would rank him over Ewing. Duncan's game most mirrors a peak Walton, although Walton just did not shoot as much as he could have.

But, in terms of CAREER...even without a ring, I just HAVE to take Ewing. Had Walton had a 10 year period of his '78 season (just before he was injured, the Blazers were 50-10), he might very well be ranked ahead of ALL of the great centers.

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=190547

What's up with the contradictions bro?:oldlol:

[LAZERUSS]

jlauber? Who the hell is jlauber? And it was written four years ago. And where does he claim that at any time that Walton was better than Wilt, KAJ, Russell, Shaq, Duncan, Moses, and even Hakeem?

I wrote this IN this topic.


I have Walton at #2 in college careers, behind, of course, Alcindor (KAJ.)

Walton's teams went 86-4, won two titles, and he won two tourney MVPs.

Kareem was statistically, considerably greater than Walton, and his team's went 88-2 (losing those two games by margins of 71-69 and 46-44.) He won three titles, and three FMVPs.

I would say that Walton's 71-72 team was the greatest college team of all-time, going 30-0 and with a ppg differential of 94.6 to 64.3, or +30.3 (which is the all-time record.) And Walton's championship game in '73 was the greatest single game ever, by anyone. 44 points, on 21-22 shooting, with 13 rebounds.

Kareem's '67 Bruins went 30-0 and had something like a 26 ppg differential, but I would argue that his '68 team, which went 29-1 with again, a 26 ppg differential, was greater than his '67 team. That one loss came against Elvin Hayes' Houston Cougars in the famous astrodome game, 71-69 and in that game Alcindor played partialy blind. The two teams would meet again in the NCAA semi's, and the Bruins just annihilated the Cougars, 101-69 (and the game was nowhere near that close...UCLA led by 44 points mid-way thru the second half.) And Kareem also had a great game in his Final game at UCLA, when he put up a Finals game of 37 points, on 15-20 shooting, with 20 rebounds.

And BOTH Walton and Alcindor would probably have won one more title each, had freshmen been allowed to play at the time (most assuredly Walton would have.)

Walton was a great college player. No question.

He was an exceptional NBA player too (when healthy...), but even at his PEAK, he was NOT on the level of the truly great centers. He was fundamentally sound. He was a skilled all-around center. He was NOT a Wilt, Russell, Kareem, Shaq, Duncan, Moses, nor even Hakeem. He NEVER had the overall IMPACT that those players did.

Walton was NEVER better at ANYTHING than Chamberlain. Wilt was a much better scorer; far more efficient; a much better rebounder; a much better passer; better defensively; and a much better shot-blocker. Again, Walton was a better FT shooter, but Chamberlain had a far greater impact at the line.

Walton may have had advantages on some of the other all-time greats, but then, there were many centers, who are not considered GOAT level, that had advantages over Walton, as well. There are many who were better scorers. Players like Bellamy, McAdoo, Ewing, Hayes, Lanier (who just crushed a peak Walton in their three H2H's)...and considerably more.

There were centers that were better passers, too. Vlade Divac, and Alvan Adams come to mind. And Wes Unseld was a better outlet passer. David Robinson, Nate Thurmond, and Ben Wallace were better defenders. Wallace was a better rebounder, as well.

But the truly GREAT centers, like Wilt, Russell, KAJ, Shaq, Duncan, Moses, and even Hakeem, were considerably more dominant in their best skills. Walton was nowhere near Russell's level in defense, nor rebounding. KAJ was simply a far greater and more effcient scorer. Same with Shaq. Walton and Duncan shared many of the same qualities, but Duncan was better at more of them. Moses was a considerably greater scorer and rebounder, and at his peak, only Wilt, KAJ, and Shaq were more dominant. Hakeem was a better scorer, and slightly better defensively.

And then there was the obvious. Walton just couldn't stay healthy. Not even for one full season. And when he was healthy, he was only good for 35 mpg. His overall impact was limited by the fact that he just wasn't on the floor enough.

I liked Walton. I have never said he wasn't an exceptional player, either. But he simply was never on the level of the true GOAT centers.

[dr.hee]

jlauber? Who the hell is jlauber?

Hey jlauber, you're pathetic :oldlol:

[1987_Lakers]

jlauber? Who the hell is jlauber?



I would say that Walton's 71-72 team was the greatest college team of all-time, going 30-0 and with a ppg differential of 94.6 to 64.3, or +30.3 (which is the all-time record.) And Walton's championship game in '73 was the greatest single game ever, by anyone. 44 points, on 21-22 shooting, with 13 rebounds.



I still remember Walton's soph year at UCLA. Coming into that season he was highly touted, but most pre-season mags had other players ranked ahead of him (like Tom Riker and Tom McMillen.) That 71-72 UCLA team became, IMHO, the greatest team in college basketball history. They not only went 30-0, they destroyed their opponents by an average margin of 98-64.

Caught red handed son.:oldlol:

[dr.hee]

Caught red handed son.:oldlol:

Such a fool :roll:

Obsessing over a dead basketball player...he should spend the few remaining years of his pathetic life with something else.

[LAZERUSS]

Yet if someone put Russell on their team you wouldn't even make a big deal out of it despite peak Walton playing on a similar level.:oldlol:

Bob Ryan (arguably the most respected sportswriter ever) if I'm not mistaken said he would choose a healthy Walton over any other center in history, this is a guy who has been covering the Celtics for 45 years.

John Wooden made a similar statement saying a healthy Walton is the best player he ever coached. (a guy who also coached Kareem)

Yet, I'm the one who is crazy.:oldlol:

Please find that exact quote from Wooden. I have his book, "They Call Me Coach", and he refused to say who was better. Which, of course, made perfect sense. BTW, I believe he also considered Goodrich as one of the greatest players he ever coached.

I could not care less what Ryan said. Quotes are basically meaningless to me. The Wilt-bashers have gone out of their way to find quotes to use against him, but the reality was, I can find quotes from the SAME players who later claimed that Wilt was the greatest ever.

As for someone putting Russell on an all-time list. I would have no problem with it. His career resume speaks for itself. He won better than anyone else who has ever played the game. Would I put Russell on my list? Nope. IMHO, Wilt was the better player, and could do more at every aspect of the game. And we know that Chamberlain could adapt his game to whatever was asked of him.

And the only other center that I might consider, would have been a peak Kareem. A peak Kareem was nearly as dominant as a prime Wilt.

Walton? Not a chance.

[1987_Lakers]

I think that those that actually saw Walton, at his uninjured peak, would rank him over Ewing. Duncan's game most mirrors a peak Walton, although Walton just did not shoot as much as he could have.

But, in terms of CAREER...even without a ring, I just HAVE to take Ewing. Had Walton had a 10 year period of his '78 season (just before he was injured, the Blazers were 50-10), he might very well be ranked ahead of ALL of the great centers.

Here we have this idiot ADMITTING Walton would probably be ranked ahead of "All of the great centers" if he kept his peak level.:oldlol:..

[dr.hee]

Here we have this idiot ADMITTING Walton would probably be ranked ahead of "All of the great centers" if he kept his peak level.:oldlol:..

Jlauber/LAZERUSS is an idiot, why are you wasting your time?

:lol

[LAZERUSS]

Here we have this idiot ADMITTING Walton would probably be ranked ahead of "All of the great centers" if he kept his peak level.:oldlol:..

A PEAK Walton never played even one full season. And he could only play 35 mpg when he was healthy.

[1987_Lakers]

Jlauber/LAZERUSS is an idiot, why are you wasting your time?

:lol

Just had to expose him real quick when he acted like he didn't know who jlauber was.:oldlol:

[LAZERUSS]

Before this post gets taken out of context let me just say that I believe both Wilt & Kareem are all-time greats and better individual players than Walton was

Enough said.

[1987_Lakers]

I think that those that actually saw Walton, at his uninjured peak, would rank him over Ewing. Duncan's game most mirrors a peak Walton, although Walton just did not shoot as much as he could have.

But, in terms of CAREER...even without a ring, I just HAVE to take Ewing. Had Walton had a 10 year period of his '78 season (just before he was injured, the Blazers were 50-10), he might very well be ranked ahead of ALL of the great centers.

enough said.

[SHAQisGOAT]

Jlauber again getting exposed/schooled :roll: :roll:

[dr.hee]

Jlauber again getting exposed/schooled :roll: :roll:

Being interested in oldschool ball is nice and he could be one of the most informative posters on this site. But at this point, he's just batshit insane. His repetitive posts about Wilt are indicating either OCD or high functioning autism.
Dude has lost it.

[La Frescobaldi]

If that's who you like.

I don't think he gives you the best chance to win.

Arvydas Sabonis in his prime was a better player than Bill Walton.

Not from what I've seen, even in Russia (admittedly I haven't seen a ton of film but highlights shouldn't show weak play... right?) where he was at his best, he wasn't in the correct spot a whole lot of the time whereas a guy could almost never drag Walton completely out of a play, even by leaving the paint altogether. Walton knew how to sag to an exceptional degree, and he excelled at switching.

AS was great in the paint tho :cheers:

[DatAsh]

Curious about this, OP (and others): When you started thinking about your all-time team, who was the first and last player of this list you thought about? It seems interesting to me that lots of people, when asked to create an elite "functional" team (=not their GOAT from each position), routinely pick the very highest SG and SF scorers they can think, then add a non-high scoring center who would just be willing enough to "play defense and mesh with the team". Curiously enough, I don't see many starting their teams with a high scoring center (Kareem, Wilt, Shaq, Hakeem) who would be complemented with a somewhat lesser scoring SG or SF (Havlicek, Moncrief, Pippen, Drexler, prime Grant Hill) who will do the analogous thing with a "complementary" (so to speak) center.


I can't speak for the OP or others, but I've personally tried building both ways to see what I can come up with, and it was seems to work out better when I build the offense from the outside in and the defense from the inside out. Usually if I'm going for an inside out offense I'll start with Shaq.

My research has led me to believe that the greatest guards/forwards(Magic, Bird, Oscar, Jordan, Kobe, Lebron) were generally having a greater impact on offense than the greatest centers(Wilt, Russell, Kareem, Malone, Hakeem, Robinson, Duncan). I believe the opposite to be true of defense.

With only one ball to go around, the need to space the floor with three point shooters, and my belief that it's better to have your guards focus more energy on offense and let your bigs focus more of their energy on defense, I look for a center who will be comfortable and effective in a 8-15ppg/defensive anchor type roll.

Top 3 for me would be

1. Russell(best defender ever, great passer, goat level rebounder, played this roll his entire career)
2. Walton(amazing defender, goat passer, played this roll his entire career)
3. Wilt(amazing defender, great passer, goat level rebounder, played this roll the last half of his career).

That's assuming we're in a world where Walton doesn't have injury problems.

[LAZERUSS]

I can't speak for the OP or others, but I've personally tried building both ways to see what I can come up with, and it was seems to work out better when I build the offense from the outside in and the defense from the inside out. Usually if I'm going for an inside out offense I'll start with Shaq.

My research has led me to believe that the greatest guards/forwards(Magic, Bird, Oscar, Jordan, Kobe, Lebron) were generally having a greater impact on offense than the greatest centers(Wilt, Russell, Kareem, Malone, Hakeem, Robinson, Duncan). I believe the opposite to be true of defense.

With only one ball to go around, the need to space the floor with three point shooters, and my belief that it's better to have your guards focus more energy on offense and let your bigs focus more of their energy on defense, I look for a center who will be comfortable and effective in a 8-15ppg/defensive anchor type roll.

Top 3 for me would be

1. Russell(best defender ever, great passer, goat level rebounder, played this roll his entire career)
2. Walton(amazing defender, goat passer, played this roll his entire career)
3. Wilt(amazing defender, great passer, goat level rebounder, played this roll the last half of his career).

That's assuming we're in a world where Walton doesn't have injury problems.


The last GOAT level offensive center was a Shaq in the early 00's. The real problem has been that there are simply no dominating offensive centers playing any more.

Chamberlain was capable of scoring 60+ points even in his "last half of his career." And his entire offense was on a level of efficiency that has not been duplicated since.

[LAZERUSS]

I can't speak for the OP or others, but I've personally tried building both ways to see what I can come up with, and it was seems to work out better when I build the offense from the outside in and the defense from the inside out. Usually if I'm going for an inside out offense I'll start with Shaq.

My research has led me to believe that the greatest guards/forwards(Magic, Bird, Oscar, Jordan, Kobe, Lebron) were generally having a greater impact on offense than the greatest centers(Wilt, Russell, Kareem, Malone, Hakeem, Robinson, Duncan). I believe the opposite to be true of defense.

With only one ball to go around, the need to space the floor with three point shooters, and my belief that it's better to have your guards focus more energy on offense and let your bigs focus more of their energy on defense, I look for a center who will be comfortable and effective in a 8-15ppg/defensive anchor type roll.

Top 3 for me would be

1. Russell(best defender ever, great passer, goat level rebounder, played this roll his entire career)
2. Walton(amazing defender, goat passer, played this roll his entire career)
3. Wilt(amazing defender, great passer, goat level rebounder, played this roll the last half of his career).

That's assuming we're in a world where Walton doesn't have injury problems.

Walton never played even ONE entire season. And he only had ONE post-season run. And a peak Walton was playing 35 mpg.

And again, he was nowhere the offensive force that KAJ, Moses, Shaq, and most certainly, Wilt, were.

Fans forget that Moses adapted to better teammates. And to a certain extent, Shaq deferred to Kobe. Clearly KAJ could carry a team, or he could blend in with better teammates. And no one was asked to change their game more than Wilt was.

[1987_Lakers]

jlauber? Who the hell is jlauber?



I would say that Walton's 71-72 team was the greatest college team of all-time, going 30-0 and with a ppg differential of 94.6 to 64.3, or +30.3 (which is the all-time record.) And Walton's championship game in '73 was the greatest single game ever, by anyone. 44 points, on 21-22 shooting, with 13 rebounds.



I still remember Walton's soph year at UCLA. Coming into that season he was highly touted, but most pre-season mags had other players ranked ahead of him (like Tom Riker and Tom McMillen.) That 71-72 UCLA team became, IMHO, the greatest team in college basketball history. They not only went 30-0, they destroyed their opponents by an average margin of 98-64.
:oldlol:

[NotBillWalton]

PG - '87 Magic
SG - '91 Jordan
SF - '13 LeBron
PF - '86 Bird
C - '77 Walton

I think this is a perfect team. Inane passers in Magic, LeBron, & Walton. Magic & Jordan are not great 3 point shooters, but LeBron can hit that shot, & I have Bird as a stretch 4, Bird can also rebound at a great level which is why I am comfortable with him at the 4. I know people like having dominant scoring centers on their teams, but I already have insane scorers and Walton is a perfect center who can rim protect, rebound, & play in a team concept at an elite level.

Throw it DOWN young man THROW IT DOWN!

However, you are out of your mind. The one true center, the holy grail of centers is Kareem. I love Kareem and you should too.

[LAZERUSS]

A peak Walton, with a vastly superior supporting cast, and against a prime KAJ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=coHMKlx7Was&playnext=1&videos=YqP06ya0k4w

[1987_Lakers]

Jlauber again getting exposed/schooled :roll: :roll:

Whatever happened to Jlauber?

[Axe]

Nice thread bump

[Bronbron23]

PG - '87 Magic
SG - '91 Jordan
SF - '13 LeBron
PF - '86 Bird
C - '77 Walton

I think this is a perfect team. Inane passers in Magic, LeBron, & Walton. Magic & Jordan are not great 3 point shooters, but LeBron can hit that shot, & I have Bird as a stretch 4, Bird can also rebound at a great level which is why I am comfortable with him at the 4. I know people like having dominant scoring centers on their teams, but I already have insane scorers and Walton is a perfect center who can rim protect, rebound, & play in a team concept at an elite level.

Your not crazy just wrong or maybe your drunk or something. I know ive been on the sauce hard since this whole covid shit. Nothing else to do.