Top 10 Most VALUABLE Finals Performances of all time

[SouBeachTalents]

These aren't necessarily the best Finals performances ever, but a combination of how well they played plus the amount of help they received from their teammates

10. Havlicek 1969- 28, 11, 4 on 46%
9. Walton 1977- 19, 19, 5, 4 on 55% (17, 20, 7, 57% in 2-0 comeback)
8. Russell 1962- 23, 27, 6 on 54% (30 & 40 in Game 7)
7. Dirk 2011- 26, 10, 42%
6. Jordan 1998- 34, 4, 2 on 43% (45 & GW in Game 6)
5. Shaq 2000- 38, 17, 3 on 61%
4. Duncan 2003- 24, 17, 5, 5 on 50% (21, 20, 10, 8 in Game 6)
3. Barry 1975- 30, 4, 5, 4 on 44%
2. Hakeem 1994- 27, 9, 4, 4 on 50%
1. Wade 2006- 35, 8, 4, 3 on 47% (39, 8, 4, 3 on 51% in 2-0 comeback)

The 10th spot was the hardest for me to decide on, and it might look bad giving it to someone who didn't even end up winning FMVP, but I couldn't really find anybody to put on the list instead of Havlicek

Russell received a little more help from his teammates than Walton did, but he clearly had the superior series, plus he had that legendary Game 7 to help stave off monster games by Baylor & West in a narrow 3 point win

Dirk-Jordan was razor thin, but I gave the nod to Jordan for a slightly better series, as well as for his epic Game 6 closeout

Shaq-Duncan was also extremely close, but I put Duncan ahead because I feel he had a bigger overall influence in all facets of the game

The top 3 could really be put in any order imo, I put Hakeem over Barry since he had to will his team to victory in a grueling 7 game series. But I put Wade #1 because he had the most precarious scenario out of anybody on the list to overcome, and referee controversy aside, he was absolutely sensational as he basically carried the Heat to those 4 wins while having absolutely no margin for error

[Dragic4Life]

2006 Wade????:lol

GTFO.

[SMoKe0uT]

2006 Wade????:lol

GTFO.


7 points never forget

[La Frescobaldi]

These aren't necessarily the best Finals performances ever, but a combination of how well they played plus the amount of help they received from their teammates

10. Havlicek 1969- 28, 11, 4 on 46%
9. Walton 1977- 19, 19, 5, 4 on 55% (17, 20, 7, 57% in 2-0 comeback)
8. Russell 1962- 23, 27, 6 on 54% (30 & 40 in Game 7)
7. Dirk 2011- 26, 10, 42%
6. Jordan 1998- 34, 4, 2 on 43% (45 & GW in Game 6)
5. Shaq 2000- 38, 17, 3 on 61%
4. Duncan 2003- 24, 17, 5, 5 on 50% (21, 20, 10, 8 in Game 6)
3. Barry 1975- 30, 4, 5, 4 on 44%
2. Hakeem 1994- 27, 9, 4, 4 on 50%
1. Wade 2006- 35, 8, 4, 3 on 47% (39, 8, 4, 3 on 51% in 2-0 comeback)

The 10th spot was the hardest for me to decide on, and it might look bad giving it to someone who didn't even end up winning FMVP, but I couldn't really find anybody to put on the list instead of Havlicek

Russell received a little more help from his teammates than Walton did, but he clearly had the superior series, plus he had that legendary Game 7 to help stave off monster games by Baylor & West in a narrow 3 point win

Dirk-Jordan was razor thin, but I gave the nod to Jordan for a slightly better series, as well as for his epic Game 6 closeout

Shaq-Duncan was also extremely close, but I put Duncan ahead because I feel he had a bigger overall influence in all facets of the game

The top 3 could really be put in any order imo, I put Hakeem over Barry since he had to will his team to victory in a grueling 7 game series. But I put Wade #1 because he had the most precarious scenario out of anybody on the list to overcome, and referee controversy aside, he was absolutely sensational as he basically carried the Heat to those 4 wins while having absolutely no margin for error

outraged, bro!!

Walt Frazier 1970 Game 7 - that's the best Finals performance by any player, any season, ever. Dude was electric shock

[Dragic4Life]

7 points never forget
Enjoy

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/200006160IND.html

[Nowitness]

Didn't Wade shoot like 97 FT's in 6 games? Yeah, the refs were more valuable than D Grade.

[SMoKe0uT]

Enjoy

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/200006160IND.html

who won the series fgt unlike Le2/5

salt

:lol :lol :lol

[Fudge]

2013 Ray Allen

[Dragic4Life]

who won the series fgt unlike Le2/5

salt

:lol :lol :lol
Shaq won the series.

How? Like this:

https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4101/4920970629_7fb8758dbc_z.jpg

[SMoKe0uT]

Shaq won the series.

How? Like this:

https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4101/4920970629_7fb8758dbc_z.jpg


7 points Lechoke 2/5 never forget :lol :lol :lol :lol

Dirk > le2/5

[DonDadda59]

Gotta have Jordan '97 up there, maybe even higher than '98. Forget the #s, which were great mind you (32/7/6 on 46% FG), but he defined clutch and greatness in that series.

Game 1- 31 Pts and hit the Last Second Buzzer Beater (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9QjYZT1xlE) to win the game

Game 2- Just missed a triple double 38/13/9 (55% FG)

Game 4- Played 42 minutes and finished the game despite suffering from cramps due to an error by a Bulls trainer who gave the team Gatorlode, thinking it was Gatorade.

Game 5- The Flu Game (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEwEsdKrNcM)- Arguably the most iconic performance in Finals History. Bulls won by only 2.

Game 6- Closes out the show with 39/11/4

A lot of those games were razor thin finishes that could have gone the other way had MJ been a less clutch individual. If he misses that shot at the buzzer, it's possible Utah wins in OT. If he succumbed to his illness or worse yet, sat out the game when he caught the flu (some say it was intentional food poisoning), Bulls lose.

The difference between the Bulls winning 4-2 and the Jazz possibly winning 4-2 was the GOAT coming through.

[Dragic4Life]

7 points Lechoke 2/5 never forget :lol :lol :lol :lol

Dirk > le2/5
http://i.imgur.com/5ZfbTFf.jpg

[SMoKe0uT]

http://i.imgur.com/5ZfbTFf.jpg


thats all u can come up with tard? stay salt 5/7 > 2/5 :lol :lol :lol

[Dragic4Life]

thats all u can come up with tard? stay salt 5/7 > 2/5 :lol :lol :lol
According to that picture your hero has 2 rings*(Gasol), 0 FMVP, 1 MVP*(CP3)

stay salt.:lol

[AintNoSunshine]

http://i.imgur.com/5ZfbTFf.jpg

:roll: :roll:

[SouBeachTalents]

Lol, LeBron or Kobe aren't even mentioned a single time in the OP, yet somehow the thread turns into a LeBron vs. Kobe debate. I guess thats ISH for ya

[T_L_P]

Good list. :cheers:

Duncan's game 1 performance is severely overlooked in my opinion.

32/20/6/3/7 on 11/17 shooting. Highest GameScore in a Finals ever I think (though that data only goes back to 1985).

What's funny is he was only like 2/3 after the first quarter. Then during the third quarter the ABC crew looked at the stat sheet and were in total disbelief. :oldlol:

[livinglegend]

http://i.imgur.com/5ZfbTFf.jpg
:oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol:

[Sarcastic]

Jordan in 1993 was better than all of those.


It's also crazy that Wade had a better Finals in 2011 than Dirk, but he's not on the list.

[T_L_P]

Jordan in 1993 was better than all of those.


It's also crazy that Wade had a better Finals in 2011 than Dirk, but he's not on the list.

"Better" isn't necessarily the same as more valuable. :confusedshrug:

[Sarcastic]

"Better" isn't necessarily the same as more valuable. :confusedshrug:


Ok, but he was more "VALUABLE" too.

[choppermagic]

Wade?! wth?

And how do you leave off Jerry West, who scored 38ppg and is the only player ever to win the FMVP despite being on the losing team?

[T_L_P]

Ok, but he was more "VALUABLE" too.

Again, not necessarily.

I'll just take Duncan's 03 Finals as a counterpoint, as it's the one I'm most familiar with:

Duncan had to be pretty much the entire offense. The only other Spur who had even an above average offensive series was David Robinson (who had a 10/7 series). Jordan still had Pippen giving you 21/9/8, although his efficiency was pretty choppy. B.J. Armstrong gave the Bulls 14 PPG on great shooting.

Duncan also played some of the greatest defense I've ever seen. Kenyon Martin, who was arguably the best Net in the Playoffs up until the Finals, shot .381 TS% in the series, including the infamous 3-23 game six (Duncan was blocking him left, right and center so he tried shooting from the outside). Duncan had an ORtg/DRtg difference of 26 (109/83). Jordan's was just 7 (119/112). He didn't really shut anyone down in the series (KJ was the only guard for Phoenix who shot below average).

Duncan had to be the best scorer, the playmaker, the defensive anchor, and he had to go up against the other team's best/close second best player. Jordan had perhaps the greatest scoring Finals ever (actually, I'm pretty sure it is), but he still had his great second option as well as not a lot of trouble from the opposing guards.

All in all, it's very close though. :confusedshrug:

[Magic 32]

:oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol:

Last year you were laughing.

This year you are laughing but crying inside.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/06/16/article-2658781-1ECF05F700000578-85_634x493.jpg

[jzek]

LOL at Jordan or Russell not #1 when talking about the Finals :roll:

[Magic 32]

Dirk's finals were overrated.

He was amazing in the first 3 rounds though (just like Kobe in 08-10).

I guess it is almost impossible to be great in 4 straight rounds when you play in the west.

[T_L_P]

LOL at Jordan or Russell not #1 when talking about the Finals :roll:

Just because they're the GOAT Finals performers does not mean they have the GOAT Finals performance.

[LAZERUSS]

Bird's teammates did not play exceptionally well in the '84 Finals.

And Magic had one of the greatest Finals ever in '87, and against the reigning NBA champs, to boot. He DOMINATED that series, and was by far the best player on the floor.

[SouBeachTalents]

Bird's teammates did not play exceptionally well in the '84 Finals.

And Magic had one of the greatest Finals ever in '87, and against the reigning NBA champs, to boot. He DOMINATED that series, and was by far the best player on the floor.

You could argue Bird in '84, although in Game 7 he definitely got a boost from his teammates while having a poor shooting night a la Kobe in 2010.

No one's disputing Magic had an all time great Finals in '87, but you can't ignore the contributions he got from his teammates. Kareem & Worthy both averaged over 20 a game in the series; Worthy had a near triple double in Game 1 putting up 33, 10, 9 on 70%, while Kareem dropped 32 in the Game 6 clincher. Add on to the fact he had the reigning DPOY in Michael Cooper, Magic received a big contribution from his teammates in the '87 Finals.

[CJ Mustard]

Shaq in 2000 is easily number 1. Not even debatable.

[BigBoss]

1. 2009 Kobe
2. 2010 Kobe
3. 2000 Kobe
4. 2001 Kobe
5. 2002 Kobe
6. 2003 Kobe
7. 2015 Kobe
8. 2016 Kobe
9. 2017 Kobe
10. 2018 Kobe

[dreamwarrior]

what about Kobe's 28/5/5 on 32%. how can anyone leave him out

[SamuraiSWISH]

Just based off what I've seen:

1) MJ 1993
2) MJ 1991
3) Shaq 2000
4) Shaq 2001
5) Wade 2006

Then whatever's clever on the rest

[Angel Face]

1993 Jordan was the most dominant Finals performance that I've seen. 1997 and 1998 was the most epic, 1997 (game winner, flu game) 1998 (His last shot as a Bull was a game winner).

1993 Jordan Finals stat line 41.0ppg 8.5rpg 6.3apg 1.7spg 0.7bpg 51%fg 40%3pt

GOAT gonna GOAT

[SamuraiSWISH]

1993 Jordan was the most dominant Finals performance that I've seen. 1997 and 1998 was the most epic, 1997 (game winner, flu game) 1998 (His last shot as a Bull was game winner).
Yea, his performances in 1997, and 1998 are the most iconic. But his performances in '91, '93, hell even '92 are better.


1993 Jordan Finals stat line 41.0ppg 8.5rpg 6.3apg 1.7spg 0.7bpg 51%fg 40%3pt

GOAT gonna GOAT
And his team needed all of that production to beat a team that offensively was a POWER HOUSE. A team that was actually top to bottom more talented, and deep than the Bulls.

MJ put the team on his back, with amazing performances and WILLED them to a three peat. Sounds like something we saw this past June with an all-time great. Only no beyond normal averages, legendary type production to make up for a lack of talent. Also, no three peat.

:(

[SouBeachTalents]

Yea, his performances in 1997, and 1998 are the most iconic. But his performances in '91, '93, hell even '92 are better.


And his team needed all of that production to beat a team that offensively was a POWER HOUSE. A team that was actually top to bottom more talented, and deep than the Bulls.

MJ put the team on his back, with amazing performances and WILLED them to a three peat. Sounds like something we saw this past June with an all-time great. Only no beyond normal averages, legendary type production to make up for a lack of talent. Also, no three peat.

:(

You could make a definite argument for Jordan, he was simply brilliant in the '93 Finals, but you can't dismiss the impact his teammates had.

Pippen was an excellent second option, averaging 21, 9, 8 in the series, and had great games like 27 9 5, 26 10 9, & 23 12 5, plus he had a triple double in Game 2 and a double double in Game 4. Grant also played very well in Games 2-4, and B.J. Armstrong chipped in with 14 & 5 a game as well.

Jordan was amazing, but his teammates, especially Pippen, played a large role in winning that series too.

[ImKobe]

98 MJ? the game-winner is a legendary moment but Pippen's defense in that series helped a ton, especially the game Utah couldn't even crack 60 points in...

Wade 2006? Refs don't count as help? Shaq his 2nd option? GP? Zo?

Kobe 09 - 32/5/7 - 1st player since MJ to drop at least 30+/5+/7+ in a Finals series
MJ 1991, 1993
Kareem 1971 27/19/3

How the hell did u put Hakeem 1994 in it and not 1995, where he completely destroyed Shaq by averaging 33/12/6 with 2 spg & 2 bpg on 48% shooting in that series????

[SouBeachTalents]

98 MJ? the game-winner is a legendary moment but Pippen's defense in that series helped a ton, especially the game Utah couldn't even crack 60 points in...

Wade 2006? Refs don't count as help? Shaq his 2nd option? GP? Zo?

Kobe 09 - 32/5/7 - 1st player since MJ to drop at least 30+/5+/7+ in a Finals series
MJ 1991, 1993
Kareem 1971 27/19/3

How the hell did u put Hakeem 1994 in it and not 1995, where he completely destroyed Shaq by averaging 33/12/6 with 2 spg & 2 bpg on 48% shooting in that series????

I see your point in your other arguments, but you're dead wrong about these two. In the '71 Finals Oscar averaged 24, 10, 5 and Dandridge put up 20, 10, 4, both on 52%.

As for the '94 Finals, who was Hakeem's second option in that series? Vernon Maxwell, who put up 13 ppg in the Finals on 37%? Otis Thorpe with his 9 & 11 output? Hakeem got almost NO help in '94, and he had to basically carry that team to a title in a brutal 7 game series.

He received MUCH more help in the '95 Finals. Drexler averaged 22, 10, 7, Horry put up 18 & 10, while Elie and Cassell chipped in with 16 & 14 ppg a piece. Hakeem received big performances from multiple teammates in every game of that series.

And you say he destroyed Shaq, but Shaq averaged 28, 13, 6, 3 on 60%, which was actually his best series of the '95 playoffs, and you could argue even better than the 29 & 11 on 58% he averaged in the regular season.

You wanna see someone Hakeem "destroyed", look at Ewing in the '94 Finals. After averaging 25 ppg on 50% in the regular season, Hakeem held Ewing to a mere 19 ppg on a horrific 36%.

[SHAQisGOAT]

Shaq should be higher.


Only player to average a triple-double in a Finals series? Larry Bird, yet he's not even there? 24.0/9.7/9.5/2.7/0.3 on .578 TS%, in 1986... Watch the games, he was just EVERYWHERE on both ends, unreal: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_0g0FhSlWs
I get the whole valuable thing but, read below...

And people like to romanticize about Dirk's 2011 Finals, how about Bird in 1984? Going up against the crazy stacked and mighty showtime Lakers (that had an easier road), leading the Celtics over a team better on paper and expected to win with players such as Kareem, Magic, Worthy, McAdoo, Cooper, Rambis... Killing them and coming up big/clutch.
Best scorer in the series with 27.4 PPG on 59.5 TS%, even easily leading his team in FG% and 3rd in FT% with more FT's taken, best rebounder in the series by far with 14 RPG.
Not enough for top10 even, I guess :rolleyes: :facepalm

^ His teammates were playing subpar throughout the post-season and in the Finals too... That should definitely be there, even ahead of Dirk's... Bird scored 10 more than his 2nd best teammate, team shot 44.2% from the floor (including him) while he was at over 48% leading the team, he grabbed 18 rebounds more than the 2nd best rebounder (Parish), had some really clutch plays/games, including a gamewinner over Magic, and that crazy "heat game" performance........


I think Kareem's 1985 Finals need to be there... 25.7/9.0/5.2/1.0/1.5, in 35.5 mpg, on .629 TS% :eek: That's crazy, especially considering he was 38. He just went on to completely destroy the Celtics, after the Lakers got massacred in game1 and he played poorly. Lakers wouldn't have done it without him.

Imo Jordan had better Finals, or say, more valuable... How about Wilt in 1967? I guess his teammates scored plenty.

I get it that you're going by teammate production too or something like that but all in all, you got some pretty good mentions there but don't really like that list overall.

[SouBeachTalents]

Shaq should be higher.

Only player to average a triple-double in a Finals series? Larry Bird, yet he's not even there?! :facepalm 24.0/9.7/9.5/2.7/0.3 on .578 TS%, in 1986... Watch the games, he was just EVERYWHERE on both ends, unreal: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_0g0FhSlWs

And people like to romanticize about Dirk's 2011 Finals, how about Bird in 1984? Going up against the crazy stacked and mighty showtime Lakers (that had an easier road), leading the Celtics over a team better on paper, expected to win with players such as Kareem, Magic, Worthy, McAdoo, Cooper, Rambis... Killing them and coming up big/clutch.
Best scorer in the series with 27.4 PPG on 59.5 TS%, even easily leading his team in FG% and 3rd in FT% with more FT's taken, best rebounder in the series by far with 14 RPG.
Not enough for top10 even, I guess :rolleyes: :facepalm
^ His teammates were playing subpar throughout the post-season and in the Finals too... That should definitely be there, even ahead of Dirk's... Bird scored 10 more than his 2nd best teammate, team shot 44.2% from the floor (including him) while he was at over 48% leading the team, he had 18 rebounds more than the 2nd best rebounder (Parish)........

I think Kareem's 1985 Finals need to be there... 25.7/9.0/5.2/1.0/1.5, in 35.5 mpg, on .629 TS% :eek: That's crazy, especially considering he was 38. He just went on to completely destroy the Celtics, after the Lakers got massacred in game1 and he played poorly.

Imo Jordan had better Finals... How about Wilt in 1967?

I get it that you're going by teammate production too or something like that but All in all, you got some pretty good mentions there but don't really like that list overall.

Bird in '84 is the only one out of the ones you listed that I really considered, but he wasn't even the best player on his team in Game 7, and he was picked up by his teammates on a poor shooting night.

The other examples you listed I disagree with completely. McHale was nearly a 1B to Bird's 1A in '86, averaging 26 & 9 on 57% while also being one of the best defenders in the league, coming off a defensive 1st team selection that year. Meanwhile, Kareem in '85 had Magic putting up 18, 14, 6 a night and Worthy adding 24, 5, 3 on 56%. Finally, Wilt in '67 had 4, FOUR teammates in the Finals average 20 ppg or more, which would have to be some kind of Finals record.

[Roundball_Rock]

98 MJ? the game-winner is a legendary moment but Pippen's defense in that series helped a ton, especially the game Utah couldn't even crack 60 points in...

Yeah. He was generally considered the front-runner for FMVP through the first four games (Chicago led 3-1) until his back gave out. He was the key in shutting down Utah's #1 offense. I wouldn't put 98' high on the list for MJ as a result, given the criteria set by the OP.

For MJ I would say 93', 91' were his best as well as most valuable Finals with 96' being his worst.

Yeah, MJ was huge in 97' but Pippen averaged 20/8/4 despite injuring his foot in the final game of the ECF. That included a big performance in Game 1 (27/9/2/4/3), when he was a game-time decision to even play, that was overshadowed by the MJ game winner. However, they didn't get much scoring in the playoffs outside of MJ and Pippen. Kukoc was third at only 8 ppg for the playoffs and he matched that in the Finals. In terms of having the least "help" in the playoffs 97' was the year for MJ imo.

2000 Shaq would be my answer to the OP. 38/17 on 61% with your second best player being injured and averaging 15/5/4 on 37%.

From the 90's to today I would have my top 5 as:

1) 00' Shaq
2) 02' Shaq
3) 93' Jordan
4) 91' Jordan
5) 06' Wade

12' LeBron narrowly misses the cut. 29/10/7. Magic and Pippen came close to averaging a triple double in the Finals several times as did some other players once (MJ in 91' and Drxler 95' come to mind) but LeBron almost did it while scoring 29 ppg, not 20 or so ppg. He followed that up with 25/11/7 in the 13' Finals.


Sounds like something we saw this past June with an all-time great. Only no beyond normal averages, legendary type production to make up for a lack of talent.

You are comparing the two situations?

Pippen: 21/9/8
Wade: 15/4/3

Grant: 11/10/2
Bosh 14/5/1

Armstrong: 14/2/5
Allen: 10/3/2

The stats don't show the defensive impact of elite defenders Pippen and Grant either. Chicago's fourth best player had production comparable to Miami's second best player. :oldlol:

MJ averaged 33 FGA and 8 FTA. LeBron, given his role in the Heat offense, would simply never consume that many possessions and if he did it would have been counter-productive.

[Dragic4Life]

This entire thread is a huge disrespect to our current GOAT Lebron James.

SMH.:facepalm

[T_L_P]

From the 90's to today I would have my top 5 as:

1) 00' Shaq
2) 02' Shaq
3) 93' Jordan
4) 91' Jordan
5) 06' Wade

12' LeBron narrowly misses the cut. 29/10/7

No mention of 03 Duncan, especially compared to 12 LeBron?

24/17/5/1/5 on .546 TS% whilst holding Kenyon Martin to .381 TS% is easily more impressive than 29/10/7/2/0 on .558 TS% and allowing Durant 31 PPG on .650 TS%.

Duncan didn't have a teammate as good as Wade in the Finals, and Bosh was easily better than anyone besides D. Rob.

[Roundball_Rock]

Sorry I forgot him. It should be:

1) 00' Shaq
2) 03' Duncan
3) 02' Shaq
4) 93' Jordan
5) 91' Jordan

Yeah good point. Robinson was a shell by 03' and Parker was not Parker then.

Wade 06' has a case, but given how much of it was referee aided I penalize it a bit. :lol

[Dragic4Life]

Where's Lebron 2012 and 2013?:facepalm

[T_L_P]

Sorry I forgot him. It should be:

1) 00' Shaq
2) 03' Duncan
3) 02' Shaq
4) 93' Jordan
5) 91' Jordan

Yeah good point. Robinson was a shell by 03' and Parker was not Parker then.

All good. A little surprised not to see it, but I'm glad it was just a mistake. :cheers:

[Roundball_Rock]

Yeah. 03' Duncan would get my vote for a superstar winning a ring with the least overall help (not just for a Finals but for the entire year). People bring up 94' Hakeem but that year most of the top teams had the same formula of one superstar, a second all-star caliber player and several other good role players (NY, HOU, CHI, SAS) and the Pacers were contenders without even having a superstar. Look at the Rockets' "cast" and compare it to the Knicks':

Thorpe 14/11/2
Maxwell 14/3/5
Smith 12/2/4
Horry 10/5/3

Starks 19/3/6
Oakley 12/12/3
Smith 10/4/1
Davis 11/1/3

So the only significance difference is Starks was a strong #2 scorer. However, that was in the regular season. In the playoffs he dipped to 14.6 ppg on 38%.

Now compare the 03' Spurs to the other top teams in 2003...

[SHAQisGOAT]

Bird in '84 is the only one out of the ones you listed that I really considered, but he wasn't even the best player on his team in Game 7, and he was picked up by his teammates on a poor shooting night.


[B]Again, and yet you got 2011 Dirk as high as 7th... In the final/decisive game6, which Dallas won, Dirk was also "picked up by his teammates on a poor shooting night" and "he wasn't even the best player on his team" :rolleyes: :lol
In fact Bird's final game7 was better than Dirk's final game6 (not just by the raw stats but from having watched both, too).
Furthermore, just look at how clutch Bird was, in game7, in the 4th, not to mention some of the rest of the game: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-enOYqF5Kwo&t=6m37s
^Great decision-making, great defense, great block, key rebounds, key steal, major FT's at the end... Acting like he wasn't even a factor/big or somethng, yea he got "picked up by his teammates" :rolleyes:
How about all of that? :rolleyes:

While pretty much everyone was playing below their standards in the 1984 Playoffs, for the Celtics, Larry was beasting, and you can see both "arguments" as he led the team in points, rebounds, assists, steals, FG% and FT% :eek: :bowdown: Find anyone that has ever done that (go by the names of his teammates though lol), but on to the Finals, the main point...

Then in the Finals they go up against the Lakers, with Kareem, Magic, Worthy, McAdoo, Cooper, Rambis... That team was stacked like crazy, great ones right there, better team on paper especially if you look at how everyone was playing in the post-season (for both sides), had an easier road to the Finals and really, were expected to win. Showtime Lakers, a dynasty, having some of the GOAT teams.

Look at some of the "things" Bird did:
-He led the series in points scoring 27.4 PPG, 10 more than Boston's 2nd best scorer (DJ, shooting under 40% from the field);
-He led the Celtics in FG%, as he was shooting 48.4% from the field and his teammates combined at 43.2%;
-He was the 4th best in FT% for the series, leading everyone in FTA's;
-As a forward, he flat-out outrebounded everyone, averaging 14 rpg, nobody on the Lakers even reached 10 rpg, Parish was at 11.4;
-He led everyone in steals (from both teams ofc) for the series also, with over 1 bpg too, played some great team D as usual;
-He also logged more minutes than everyone else in the series, in a really exhausting and physical matchup;
.....
That's crazy right there :applause: Especially against that type of competition, not only as a team and individual offensive talent but also the all-time great D on him with Michael Cooper and James Worthy, with others helping.

Wanna go through the games? Ok...

Game2 not his best but still with 27/13 and agressive as hell, as the Celtics won in OT.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJqElkoGFYw

After the C's got beat up in game3, Bird (who had a really good game) comes out and says his teammates played like ******* (tbh they did), to light a fire under them... exactly what happened. Leading on and off the court, that's major and few would/can do it.

Then in game4, when their teammates raised their agressiveness, McHale with the clothesline, Larry almost in a fight with Jabbar... Bird put up 29 points and 21 rebounds, and hit a gamewinner over Magic.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iLIxAAJa7no

In game5, the "Heat Game" with the Garden at 98

[ImKobe]

I see your point in your other arguments, but you're dead wrong about these two. In the '71 Finals Oscar averaged 24, 10, 5 and Dandridge put up 20, 10, 4, both on 52%.

As for the '94 Finals, who was Hakeem's second option in that series? Vernon Maxwell, who put up 13 ppg in the Finals on 37%? Otis Thorpe with his 9 & 11 output? Hakeem got almost NO help in '94, and he had to basically carry that team to a title in a brutal 7 game series.

He received MUCH more help in the '95 Finals. Drexler averaged 22, 10, 7, Horry put up 18 & 10, while Elie and Cassell chipped in with 16 & 14 ppg a piece. Hakeem received big performances from multiple teammates in every game of that series.

And you say he destroyed Shaq, but Shaq averaged 28, 13, 6, 3 on 60%, which was actually his best series of the '95 playoffs, and you could argue even better than the 29 & 11 on 58% he averaged in the regular season.

You wanna see someone Hakeem "destroyed", look at Ewing in the '94 Finals. After averaging 25 ppg on 50% in the regular season, Hakeem held Ewing to a mere 19 ppg on a horrific 36%.

Didn't Shaq average like 6 turnovers per game in that series though? Hakeem had an epic Finals series in 95 regardless.

[ImKobe]

Shaq in 2000 is easily number 1. Not even debatable.

Was fouled out on the road in OT, needed a young Kobe to win the game on the road, otherwise it goes 7 games.

[Da_Realist]

I don't agree with the OP's definition of valuable. It nullifies guys who elevate their teammates play up to their level. There are different ways of being valuable.