If you're a Cavs fan and you don't want to trade Wiggins for Love, you're insane

[Bodhi]

Or you don't want to win a title. No other way to put it.

The Cavaliers will never have another player as good as LeBron James is right now. Players of his caliber, the types that can win 4 MVPs, come into the league maybe once every 20 years. The chances that the Cavs acquire a player as good as LeBron in our lifetime is pretty close to 0.

But LeBron has a shelf life. He's turning 30. He wasn't as good last year as he was in 2013, and he won't be as good in 2015 as he was last year. In 3-4 years he won't be nearly as good as he is today.

So why on earth do Cavs fans want to stick with Wiggins, who is at least 4 years away from being a star, instead of acquiring a top 10 player in the league right now? Next season is the best chance the Cavs will ever have to win a championship and most of them want to throw it away to develop Wiggins

[Dragic4Life]

Good thread. :applause: :cheers:

[navy]

To be fair, Love will be a free agent next year and the wolves have little leverage.

[Cocaine80s]

Its either contend for titles for 3-4 more years and then fall off

vs

Stay above average for the next 5+years

[Bodhi]

To be fair, Love will be a free agent next year and the wolves have little leverage.
I mean obviously if you can get Love without giving up Wiggins, that's the best move.

But the idea that the Cavs are better off trying to develop Wiggins than winning now with Love drives me insane.

By the time Wiggins develops LeBron won't be an MVP level player anymore

[red1]

because there are other ways of improving your team short-term without giving up valuable assets. shit it might even possible to get love this same season without trading your #1 pick

[Collie]

As a non-Cavs fan, I'm intrigued by a Wiggins-Lebron wing duo. I don't know if Wiggins will bust or become the second coming of Tmac/Pippen/Durant, but it'll be an exciting ride whatever the case.

I just feel that we've already seen the potential Lebron/Love/Kyrie teamup with the Miami Heat Big 3 (just switching Bosh and Wade's roles).

[senelcoolidge]

It's all about Lebron, Bennett, and Irving. That's going to be insane.

[J Shuttlesworth]

I'd trade anything for love, honestly.




Maybe not all my money, or my guitars, or my ISH account but anything else, sure.

[Bodhi]

As a non-Cavs fan, I'm intrigued by a Wiggins-Lebron wing duo. I don't know if Wiggins will bust or become the second coming of Tmac/Pippen/Durant, but it'll be an exciting ride whatever the case.

I just feel that we've already seen the potential Lebron/Love/Kyrie teamup with the Miami Heat Big 3 (just switching Bosh and Wade's roles).
The thing is, best case scenario it takes Wiggins 3 or 4 years to develop into a Pippen type player.

In 4 years, LeBron won't be an MVP level player. You're never going to see prime Wiggins and prime LeBron on the same team.

The Cavs probably have a 3 year window to win a title with LeBron and I think they realize this. Not sure if any of their fans do though

[04mzwach]

Here's to improving our defense while trying to keep our offense stable my Wolves friends. Love may be a great player, but chances are we'll fair well without him. We didn't make the playoffs with him so I can't fathom doing worse without him. :cheers:

[sbw19]

LeBron's max once he re-signs (assuming he'll do) will be even more crippling. Unless Love agrees to make a compromise, trading for him might very well handicap the Cavs flexibility to sign the necessary role players to win a title.

The other thing to bear in mind is that both Kyrie and Love have missed some games in the past with injuries, potentially putting more pressure on a not-so-young LeBron.

And personally I don't like the idea of having two (again unless Love signs for less) max sidekicks whose FG% are around the 45% mark.

[04mzwach]

To be fair, Love will be a free agent next year and the wolves have little leverage.
The Cavs are in a situation where they have to give Lebron a reason to stay for more than one year.

[Dr. Cheesesteak]

Here's to improving our defense while trying to keep our offense stable my Wolves friends. Love may be a great player, but chances are we'll fair well without him. We didn't make the playoffs with him so I can't fathom doing worse without him. :cheers:
this. I get wanting Love in general. But just not for the Cavs. He's a redundancy (they already have plenty of shooters once Ray Allen signs) and TT synergizes better w/ that Cavs roster. Plus if Cavs give up Wiggins AND Waiters, who the F are their 2Gs? Ray Allen and Felix? :oldlol:

[navy]

The Cavs are in a situation where they have to give Lebron a reason to stay for more than one year.
No he already committed long term. He just has a flexible contract.

[Beastmode88]

It's all about Lebron, Bennett, and Irving. That's going to be insane.

:roll: :roll: :roll:

[305Baller]

well, duh.

but it still doesnt guarantee a title.

http://mrwgifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/Dramatic-Star-Trek-Clap-Reaction-Gif.gif

[Kingwillball]

this. I get wanting Love in general. But just not for the Cavs. He's a redundancy (they already have plenty of shooters once Ray Allen signs) and TT synergizes better w/ that Cavs roster. Plus if Cavs give up Wiggins AND Waiters, who the F are their 2Gs? Ray Allen and Felix? :oldlol:


I think they give up Wiggins, and Bennet or Thompson. Bennet or TT would be a great backup PF. Waiters starts at the 2. Irving,Waiters,Lebron,Love,Andy V with Dely,Allen,Miller,Jones,TT,Haywood making up bench. Nice mix of vets and young guys.

[Dragic4Life]

well, duh.

but it still doesnt guarantee a title.
It does actually...

[coin24]

It does actually...

Yeah playoff beast Kevin love... Oh wait

[Dbrog]

Its either contend for titles for 3-4 more years and then fall off

vs

Stay above average for the next 5+years

these are pretty much exactly my thoughts on this.

[305Baller]

Yeah playoff beast Kevin love... Oh wait


exactly.

[DMAVS41]

In my opinion.

You don't give up Bennet in this trade because you need his stretch shooting. You also don't give up Wiggins unless you get back Love and Dieng.

Wiggns and filler for Love is paying too much for Love. That is a fair deal. This should not be a fair deal for the Wolves.

Dieng is key. I know he's unproven and everything, but he's a beast of a prospect at center...the exact position the Cavs need to address.

If they are going to pay 90 cents on the dollar for Love...they better get back something else...or they are getting taken to the cleaners imo.

[Dragic4Life]

Kevin Love is a walking 25/15. Top 5 PF right now in the NBA.

[Bodhi]

In my opinion.

You don't give up Bennet in this trade because you need his stretch shooting. You also don't give up Wiggins unless you get back Love and Dieng.

Wiggns and filler for Love is paying too much for Love. That is a fair deal. This should not be a fair deal for the Wolves.

Dieng is key. I know he's unproven and everything, but he's a beast of a prospect at center...the exact position the Cavs need to address.

If they are going to pay 90 cents on the dollar for Love...they better get back something else...or they are getting taken to the cleaners imo.

The goal is to win a title. You're prioritizing being good over many years instead of winning a title.

Prime LeBron and prime Love, which the Cavs could have, is incomparably better than past prime LeBron and prime Wiggins, which is the best case scenario for the Cavs if they don't trade for Love

[KNOW1EDGE]

They could keep Wiggins and sign Kevin Love next year as a free-agent. In the meantime sign/trade for a temporary fill at that position if deemed necessary.

LeBron will be 30 in December. Tim Duncan just won a championship as the best player on his team at the age of 38. No need to get trigger happy and risk your future to win this year, when you can sign the same player next year. No brainer.

[DMAVS41]

The goal is to win a title. You're prioritizing being good over many years instead of winning a title.

Prime LeBron and prime Love, which the Cavs could have, is incomparably better than past prime LeBron and prime Wiggins, which is the best case scenario for the Cavs if they don't trade for Love

You also don't trade for Love on 90 cents on the dollar in this situation.

Also, Andy alone at center is not good enough. They need more than that....Dieng goes a long way for this.

Trading Wiggins is also not the only way to improve this team...you don't just give him up unless you get a great deal in return.

I agree about the goal and everything, but you still have to make prudent decisions.

Just heard on twitter that the Warriors are now willing to include Klay Thompson...this just got interesting if true.

[DMAVS41]

They could keep Wiggins and sign Kevin Love next year as a free-agent. In the meantime sign/trade for a temporary fill at that position if deemed necessary.

LeBron will be 30 in December. Tim Duncan just won a championship as the best player on his team at the age of 38. No need to get trigger happy and risk your future to win this year, when you can sign the same player next year. No brainer.

This will almost for sure not happen. The Wolves will trade Love...if they don't...it will be a very bad decision for them.

[Dr. Cheesesteak]

Just heard on twitter that the Warriors are now willing to include Klay Thompson...this just got interesting if true.
yeah, getting Rush back really helped them in for that. now they can move Iggy to the 2G and start Barnes at the 3F... imagine this line up:

Bogut
KLove
HBarnes
Iggy
Steph
-------
Ezeli
Speights
Green
Rush
Livingston
Nedovic

That starting 5... solid bench too.

Marc Stein pointed out that since Wiggins is un-signed, it'd make it more difficult for TWolves to trade for him as they'd have to either negotiate his contract or wait 30 days after he signs w/ Cavs. cmon GSW, swoop in on that Love ish!

[KNOW1EDGE]

This will almost for sure not happen. The Wolves will trade Love...if they don't...it will be a very bad decision for them.

If they traded him would he not be a free agent next year?

He has the leverage. A team won't trade for him without word from Love that he will resign. And I'm speculating that Kevin Love wants to play with LeBron and be a Cav. One way or another I feel he will be a Cavalier.

The question is, does Cleveland make a trade for him this year? -or sign him as a free agent next year?

[Bodhi]

You also don't trade for Love on 90 cents on the dollar in this situation.

Also, Andy alone at center is not good enough. They need more than that....Dieng goes a long way for this.

Trading Wiggins is also not the only way to improve this team...you don't just give him up unless you get a great deal in return.

I agree about the goal and everything, but you still have to make prudent decisions.

Just heard on twitter that the Warriors are now willing to include Klay Thompson...this just got interesting if true.

If the Warriors are really ready to give up Klay then this puts even more pressure on the Cavs.

It seems like the average NBA fan doesn't understand that the Cavaliers will never have a player as good as LeBron again. They'll be lucky if they ever have another player win an MVP award, let alone four and counting

If you wait three years to improve the team, the window will have closed. LeBron will no longer be the best player in the league and the Cavs won't win a title

[Collie]

My biggest problem with Love to Cleveland is that he will obviously not be a 26-12 player there. Maybe he rebounds the same, but what if he becomes Chris Bosh all over again? Chris Bosh averaged 24-11 on better efficiency than Love his last year in Toronto, AND he was a better defender and could alternate at center.

[305Baller]

My biggest problem with Love to Cleveland is that he will obviously not be a 26-12 player there. Maybe he rebounds the same, but what if he becomes Chris Bosh all over again? Chris Bosh averaged 24-11 on better efficiency than Love his last year in Toronto, AND he was a better defender and could alternate at center.

Because Cleveland is way too young and inexperienced and you need another vet in there if you want to sniff the title. Even if Love is prime Bosh...hes still prime Bosh. Wiggins is a question mark.

[navy]

My biggest problem with Love to Cleveland is that he will obviously not be a 26-12 player there. Maybe he rebounds the same, but what if he becomes Chris Bosh all over again? Chris Bosh averaged 24-11 on better efficiency than Love his last year in Toronto, AND he was a better defender and could alternate at center.
Because that is still better than a developing Wiggins.

[Rameek]

I dont understand why they dont want to give up Wiggins? They offered Minny the first pick already and Minny rejected (they could have just taken Wiggins themselves). Now that Cleveland has him they dont want to give him up? Retarded.

[KNOW1EDGE]

Collie what would be wrong with Love "turning into Chris Bosh?" -LBJ just went to 4 straight finals and won 2 with Chris Bosh.

I get what you mean, but personally I think Kevin Love is the real deal

[Bodhi]

I dont understand why they dont want to give up Wiggins? They offered Minny the first pick already and Minny rejected (they could have just taken Wiggins themselves). Now that Cleveland has him they dont want to give him up? Retarded.

My only guess is that they think they can get Love without giving up Wiggins

Otherwise it makes 0 sense

[raprap]

Wiggins will not be a star right away but I think he would fit with lebron right away. I really like the cavs team right now except the depth in the 5. Interior defense will be their major problem not floor spacing and Love wont help them in that department.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Post from realgm that captures my thoughts on the situation:


If there's only one moment to get Love, and that moment is now and requires Wiggins, I absolutely believe Cleveland should do it.

The most general rule is this:

If you've got a player worth building around, you build around him. That doesn't just mean finding players who seem the right type, it means thinking about his age and his peak. LeBron is 29 years old. The time to build around him is now. Every year you waste is a year that you never get again. And in the case of Cleveland "never" is a very definite thing: The Cavaliers will never have a player as good as LeBron is right now again. Ever. I'm talking realistically here, we'll all probably be dead before they luck into drafting a player like this again, and they'll never acquire anyone of this magnitude by any other means.

I understand the temptation to want to continue building for the future, ensure a good team for a very long time, but this is the NBA. You're playing for a championship in general, and in particular, if LeBron really gets the impression they aren't willing to commit fully around him that's basically the one thing that could make him leave again.

So if you're sane at all, you're building trying to win championships as much as possible over the next few years, and the way to do that is not with Andrew Wiggins who is 19 years old and actually seems young and timid for his age. He was as a freshman, for example, a tiny fraction of the player Kevin Love was at the same age.

Bottom line then: Love or no Love, Cleveland should absolutely be considering trading Wiggins. If they want to wait until the fall and see what he looks like first, this isn't the end of the world, but short of them concluding that it's better to build around Wiggins than LeBron, Wiggins is trade bait, and it's just a question of whether there's something sexy enough to make the trade actually happen.

Kevin Love should be enough to make that happen. He's already a Top 5 player in my book. You may disagree, but if you don't have him in the Top 10, then you're simply assuming it's fault his team was losing, and there's no rational basis for that. Realistically, if he comes to the Eastern Conference, he's the 2nd best player in the conference behind LeBron, and he's smart as a whip. Not saying Wade & Bosh are low BBIQ players, but Love is very, very smart. If he's eager to come over and actively blend his game around LeBron - rather than in Miami where LeBron had to adapt to inferior, less flexible talents - he's going to find ways to fill in the gaps like few others.

The most important thing is that he's ready now, but of course if he were older than LeBron that would be an issue. Instead, people forget, he just turned 25, and his mileage isn't even high for his age. It's frankly astonishing to me that Golden State won't give up Klay Thompson for him given that Thompson's only a year younger than Love, and Love was easily better half a decade ago than Thompson is now.

So yeah, if the choice is now or never, I make the deal in a heart beat.

If Cleveland thinks that can finesse it and end up in even better shape though, I understand holding off. Minnesota's leverage isn't going to go up as the season progresses. At a certain point if there's no better deal, Cleveland might be able to get Love without giving up Wiggins, and if they do that will make them look like geniuses.

Were I Cleveland, and I got the impression that I was currently giving Minny the best offer, I'd probably hold off. Minny can't afford to get offended. If December comes around and only then GS throws Thompson into the mix, Minny probably comes back to Cleveland and says "One last shot, give us Wiggins or else", and at that point you pull the trigger.

Where I'd be nervous if I were Cleveland is if I wasn't confident I'd given the best offer right now. If Minny is looking to make a move soon and is holding out basically already giving the Cavs the last chance to match the offer now, then the Cavs might screw themselves out of a prime superstar to pair with LeBron, and if they do, they won't just look like idiots. They'll look like a team that just screws up every time despite being more good fortune in the past 12 years than seemingly the whole rest of the league combined.

[Bodhi]

Post from realgm that captures my thoughts on the situation:

Essentially what I'm saying with more words. Next season is the best chance the Cavs will ever have to win a title

[El Gato Negro]

im a cavs fans and i dont want trade wiggins for love.:banana:

[lilgodfather1]

The Cavs as currently constructed are going to be good at two things, scoring and rebounding. What is Kevin Love good at? Scoring and rebounding.

The Cavs are going to be average, to slightly above average on defense, what is Love not good at? Defense.

You see where this is going. The Cavs do not need Love. Between Kyrie, LeBron, and Waiters, you are going to get at least 60 ppg, and between Wiggins, Bennett, Andy, Miller, Delly, and TT/AV they will easily make up 40ppg.

LeBron is going to get 6 boards min, Andy is going to get 10, Wiggins crashes the board, Tristan is a good rebounder. The team should easily be an elite rebounding team.

So what does Love provide for the Cavs exactly? He is an awesome player, but his strongest areas are the Cavs already strong areas.

Luxury, not necessity.

Food for thought, the #1 pick in the draft becomes an all star 80% of the time. This is a no lose situation, don't trade Wiggins.

[Pointguard]

The Cavs as currently constructed are going to be good at two things, scoring and rebounding. What is Kevin Love good at? Scoring and rebounding.

The Cavs are going to be average, to slightly above average on defense, what is Love not good at? Defense.

You see where this is going. The Cavs do not need Love. Between Kyrie, LeBron, and Waiters, you are going to get at least 60 ppg, and between Wiggins, Bennett, Andy, Miller, Delly, and TT/AV they will easily make up 40ppg.

LeBron is going to get 6 boards min, Andy is going to get 10, Wiggins crashes the board, Tristan is a good rebounder. The team should easily be an elite rebounding team.

So what does Love provide for the Cavs exactly? He is an awesome player, but his strongest areas are the Cavs already strong areas.

Luxury, not necessity.

Food for thought, the #1 pick in the draft becomes an all star 80% of the time. This is a no lose situation, don't trade Wiggins.

This.

A team of Love, Kyrie and Lebron isn't winning the East. And the Cav's have to throw in other players to make the deal work. Their defense lacks. They can't play big, they don't have enough players, they aren't quick, they don't draw fouls, its a new chemistry; They aren't made for the playoffs.

Washington is going over the top of them, they are faster, they have more players, they're bigger, more athletic, figured their chemistry out.

Indiana is bigger, stronger, more experienced, have chemistry, can apply pressure better...

Chicago is bigger, more disciplined, rebound better, have better dept, better interior play, more versatility, better defense, better complimentary pieces, ability to apply pressure, taller, better chemistry, better matchups. At least, Wiggins helps out with the athletic, perimeter defense, speed, ability to apply pressure and get easy baskets.

The teams out West are going to pass more because teams always imitate the champs and the Clippers, OKC and SA all might get on the train. If they do Kyrie and Love will be test dummies. Its not going to work. The Cavs aren't getting foul shots, easy baskets, meaningful stops, can't go over the top. If Lebron is down low he's in Kyrie's way. It will take Kyrie a while to understand how this works under pressure. Love is not used to the playoffs so don't expect his shot to be on the first time around.

Yall are crazy if you think Love is the answer for now. That's a pipe dream.

[D-Rose]

If I'm Cleveland, there's no way in hell I'm agreeing to ANYTHING unless Love commits to an extension before the trade. Nada. No chance.

[sbw19]

Bump.

[livingby3's]

This.

A team of Love, Kyrie and Lebron isn't winning the East. And the Cav's have to throw in other players to make the deal work. Their defense lacks. They can't play big, they don't have enough players, they aren't quick, they don't draw fouls, its a new chemistry; They aren't made for the playoffs.

Washington is going over the top of them, they are faster, they have more players, they're bigger, more athletic, figured their chemistry out.

Indiana is bigger, stronger, more experienced, have chemistry, can apply pressure better...

Chicago is bigger, more disciplined, rebound better, have better dept, better interior play, more versatility, better defense, better complimentary pieces, ability to apply pressure, taller, better chemistry, better matchups. At least, Wiggins helps out with the athletic, perimeter defense, speed, ability to apply pressure and get easy baskets.

The teams out West are going to pass more because teams always imitate the champs and the Clippers, OKC and SA all might get on the train. If they do Kyrie and Love will be test dummies. Its not going to work. The Cavs aren't getting foul shots, easy baskets, meaningful stops, can't go over the top. If Lebron is down low he's in Kyrie's way. It will take Kyrie a while to understand how this works under pressure. Love is not used to the playoffs so don't expect his shot to be on the first time around.

Yall are crazy if you think Love is the answer for now. That's a pipe dream.

This guy :applause:

[dannywpt]

Bump.


:roll:

If Love walks after a 1st/2nd round exit this season and Wiggins becomes a true star player in a couple of years :banana:

[sbw19]

If Love walks after a 1st/2nd round exit this season and Wiggins becomes a true star player in a couple of years I suspect Love won't walk away unless LeBron does first. At this juncture, it's too premature to deem his joining the Cavs anything, but it's just funny how some people were gushing over trading for him only to turn against him and trash him so early and so often.

[riseagainst]

Good thread. :applause: :cheers:


It does actually...


Kevin Love is a walking 25/15. Top 5 PF right now in the NBA.


:roll:
:roll:
:roll:
:roll:
:roll:
:roll:
:roll:
:roll:

[Droid101]

:roll:
:roll:
:roll:
:roll:
:roll:
:roll:
:roll:
:roll:
That guy taking losses as usual.

[DMAVS41]

This guy :applause:

Yea, but the thing is...it's not the offense that is the problem.

You put Larry Sanders and Dieng on this team at center and they win the title in my opinion.

So....I mean. Read my posts...I was right there with the skeptics on this team, but lets not act like the offense sucks or something.

They have the 4th best offense...or at least they did last time I checked...and that is with the growing pains of an early first season together.

They should have traded Waiters and or Thompson and picks for things they actually needed. Shouldn't have given Andy that contract....so many mistakes already made...but again...it's the Cavs.

And they should have gotten Dieng back in the Love trade as well.


But lets not act like Kyrie/Lebron/Love on offense isn't working or has been some disaster.