Lebron's contract and no Love for Wiggins

[Pointguard]

Lebron's lack of acknowledgement of Wiggins in the essay can lead to a messy situation. Lebron isn't a long term contract player (2 year contract with a one year out clause - mostly due to not knowing when the TV contract will be signed - or at least that is what we are told) and shouldn't have much say in the long term investment of the team. Wiggins has the potential to be the best player in the league. Something Love will never approach. Cleveland would be mortgaging the future for Love. Which is fine for us to do, but Cleveland did this once before.

Lebron left Cleveland for a Wiggins type of player., sobeit, proven He thought he was getting a rebounder with his Ex. But Bosh didn't pan out. And Lebron had to lead the team in rebounding the last three years. And whatever you miss in your last relationship, you tend to over exaggerate the need in your next relationship. While I think Love would still be a great shooter and rebounder out East, it isn't a guarantee. The convoluted style out East will mean he has to be to be a good rebounder in traffic. Which is a little bit different.

You can get a rebounder (rarely at the level of K Love but you can get an adequate one) and you can get shooting. Its rare that you can ever get a player who could be the best in the league. If Wiggins gets shipped out, Lebron will forever be linked with team personnel in a way he perhaps shouldn't be. You embrace everybody on your new team, show your Love for the future. Lebron came to a chosen situation. Lebron was vilified for choosing teammates. He should really bury anything that looks like he up to it again.

[DMAVS41]

How is it mortgaging the future when if you make the trade...you will be contenders for at least the next 8 years unless there are health concerns.

Love is 25. Irving is 21. Bennet is 20. Delladova is 23. Waiters is 22. Lebron is 29.

If the Cavs are smart and they get back Dieng...Dieng is 24.

Mortgaging the future? What?

And if they trade Wiggins/Thompson...they'll retain the Miami and Grizzlies pick if they are smart.

So they'd have some nice picks that can be used on their own in the draft or trade for pieces.

[Foster5k]

Wiggins has the potential to be the best player in the league.
I think you're reaching here. Wiggins has yet to play a single game in the NBA and really hasn't shown "best player in the league" type of potential in the summer league.

Kevin Love gives the Cavs the best chance to win NOW! All Cleveland wants is one championship. That's it. They don't care about the future. If LeBron brings them just one title, his legacy will take a huge leap forward. Not only in the eyes of the citizens of Cleveland, but in the eyes of of millions around the world.

LeBron, Dan Gilbert, the city of Cleveland are ready for their championship right now. Not 4-5 years down the road. Also, who knows what could happen by then.

[navy]

Wiggins is never going to be the best player in the league.

[tmacattack33]

Wiggins could possibly be the best player in the league eventually.

He could also turn out to be Andre Igoudala or Shawn Marion level.


Do it. Do the damn trade.

[Straight_Ballin]

If Bron signed a longer deal, then yes, you can trade wiggins. Since he didn't, he should accept the fact that the Cavs don't want to trade wiggins. no commitment = Cavs looking out for their future by keeping wiggins. Nothing more to it.

[r15mohd]

Lebron's lack of acknowledgement of Wiggins in the essay can lead to a messy situation. Lebron isn't a long term contract player (2 year contract with a one year out clause - mostly due to not knowing when the TV contract will be signed - or at least that is what we are told) and shouldn't have much say in the long term investment of the team. Wiggins has the potential to be the best player in the league. Something Love will never approach. Cleveland would be mortgaging the future for Love. Which is fine for us to do, but Cleveland did this once before.

Lebron left Cleveland for a Wiggins type of player., sobeit, proven He thought he was getting a rebounder with his Ex. But Bosh didn't pan out. And Lebron had to lead the team in rebounding the last three years. And whatever you miss in your last relationship, you tend to over exaggerate the need in your next relationship. While I think Love would still be a great shooter and rebounder out East, it isn't a guarantee. The convoluted style out East will mean he has to be to be a good rebounder in traffic. Which is a little bit different.

You can get a rebounder (rarely at the level of K Love but you can get an adequate one) and you can get shooting. Its rare that you can ever get a player who could be the best in the league. If Wiggins gets shipped out, Lebron will forever be linked with team personnel in a way he perhaps shouldn't be. You embrace everybody on your new team, show your Love for the future. Lebron came to a chosen situation. Lebron was vilified for choosing teammates. He should really bury anything that looks like he up to it again.


Cleveland is far from a "chosen situation"...they've proven nothing without Lebron, and Wiggins has proven very little against rookies and sophomores alike.

Lebron wants to win now, and if the Cavs/Gilbert has learned anything from their last stint with Lebron...they BETTER sign a fitting 2nd option than to let it rest on a hope and prayer that Wiggins' pans out. If they don't expect Lebron to consider seeking another home next summer, once again.

[DMAVS41]

If Bron signed a longer deal, then yes, you can trade wiggins. Since he didn't, he should accept the fact that the Cavs don't want to trade wiggins. no commitment = Cavs looking out for their future by keeping wiggins. Nothing more to it.

Not even Lebron would leave the Cavs now.

That isn't a real worry.

Lebron just wants to get the max possible salary when the TV deal is factored in.

And potentially the next CBA will include a provision about 1 player on a team getting paid an amount that only half counts on the cap or something so these stars can make even more...with it capped at 50 million or something.

He's not leaving the Cavs again...

[Straight_Ballin]

Cleveland is far from a "chosen situation"...they've proven nothing without Lebron, and Wiggins has proven very little against rookies and sophomores alike.

Lebron wants to win now, and if the Cavs/Gilbert has learned anything from their last stint with Lebron...they BETTER sign a fitting 2nd option than to let it rest on a hope and prayer that Wiggins' pans out. If they don't expect Lebron to consider seeking another home next summer, once again.

Then Bron looks like an idiot for not being patient, again. Cavs never promised Lebron a squad that would be an immediate winner. He needs
to put in work with wiggins, and then form the dynasty, not a one hit wonder.

[navy]

Then Bron looks like an idiot for not being patient, again. Cavs never promised Lebron a squad that would be an immediate winner. He needs
to put in work with wiggins, and then form the dynasty, not a one hit wonder.
:biggums:

A dynasty? :roll:

Wiggins is no where close to any of the players that have dynasties.

Kevin Durant has been in the league for 8 years and he has no rings. The Thunder are closer to a dynasty than the Cavs will ever be. Better players and better draft future potential. I can tell you one thing. They wont ever be a dynasty.

[Straight_Ballin]

A dynasty? :roll:


:biggums:
Wiggins is no where close to any of the players that have dynasties.

I'm talking 3-4 years. Wtf is love going to give you, a trip to the ECF? Anyone who thinks the Cavs are winning it all with a new team this year (love or not) needs a reality check.

[PleezeBelieve]

@ you dudes still hyping this Wiggins dude.

You people just don't stop. Stop hyping him and let him prove SOMETHING on the court.

[Dragic4Life]

@ you dudes still hyping this Wiggins dude.

You people just don't stop. Stop hyping him and let him prove SOMETHING on the court.
this.

[navy]

I'm talking 3-4 years. Wtf is love going to give you, a trip to the ECF? Anyone who thinks the Cavs are winning it all with a new team this year (love or not) needs a reality check.
In 3-4 years you have no idea how good Lebron will still be. We dont even know if Wiggins will be a superstar. He may very well end up a gerald green or an andre iggy.

In which case you wasted 4 years of Lebron's prime babysitting and then another 8 years losing in the playoffs.

[FireMcFailPlease]

:biggums:

A dynasty? :roll:

Wiggins is no where close to any of the players that have dynasties.

Kevin Durant has been in the league for 8 years and he has no rings. The Thunder are closer to a dynasty than the Cavs will ever be. Better players and better draft future potential. I can tell you one thing. They wont ever be a dynasty.
Its unreal how some of these ishiots can even function getting out of bed.

[DMAVS41]

I'm talking 3-4 years. Wtf is love going to give you, a trip to the ECF? Anyone who thinks the Cavs are winning it all with a new team this year (love or not) needs a reality check.

It's not just about this year.

Do you think Love is 35 or something?

Dude is ****ing 25 years old and will have 8 years of prime play left honestly without injury.

With Irving/Love/Lebron and a proper team built around them...they are contenders for at least the next 8 years.

You really going to worry about a team beyond 8 years? Really?

[Pointguard]

How is it mortgaging the future when if you make the trade...you will be contenders for at least the next 8 years unless there are health concerns.

15 is greater than 6.


Love is 25. Irving is 21. Bennet is 20. Delladova is 23. Waiters is 22. Lebron is 29.

If the Cavs are smart and they get back Dieng...Dieng is 24.

Mortgaging the future? What?

Greatness.

A foreign concept to you??? Nobody was talking about the great future in Minny before Love wanted to jump ship.

[DMAVS41]

15 is greater than 6.

Greatness.

A foreign concept to you??? Nobody was talking about the great future in Minny before Love wanted to jump ship.

Where do you get 6...and where do you get 15?

You are just throwing out random numbers with no backing. Wiggins could be Kawhi Leonard in 5 years...we have no idea.

We already know how good Irving and Love are currently...we know about Lebron.

6 years? Why would they only contend for 6 years? Irving will be 27, Love will be 31, and Lebron will be 35....Lebron could be willing to sign the Duncan/Dirk contract in 7 years and they could add another star or other key players.

Why would you arbitrarily put a cap of years of contention with Love/Irving/Lebron at 6?

Wiggins is such an unknown...you simply do not risk 8 years of for sure contention barring injuries in favor of hoping an unproven rookie becomes as good as a 26/12/4 sharp shooting beast of a rebounder pf that makes you elite now.

[Pointguard]

I think you're reaching here. Wiggins has yet to play a single game in the NBA and really hasn't shown "best player in the league" type of potential in the summer league.

Neither did Wade and he was about 3 years older.



Kevin Love gives the Cavs the best chance to win NOW! All Cleveland wants is one championship. That's it. They don't care about the future. If LeBron brings them just one title, his legacy will take a huge leap forward. Not only in the eyes of the citizens of Cleveland, but in the eyes of of millions around the world.

LeBron, Dan Gilbert, the city of Cleveland are ready for their championship right now. Not 4-5 years down the road. Also, who knows what could happen by then.

With Love they aren't beating OKC, SA, healthy Chicago, or the Clippers. Its still a two/three year plan with Love. There's not enough defense.

[Straight_Ballin]

Where do you get 6...and where do you get 15?

You are just throwing out random numbers with no backing. Wiggins could be Kawhi Leonard in 5 years...we have no idea.

We already know how good Irving and Love are currently...we know about Lebron.

6 years? Why would they only contend for 6 years? Irving will be 27, Love will be 31, and Lebron will be 35....Lebron could be willing to sign the Duncan/Dirk contract in 7 years and they could add another star or other key players.

Why would you arbitrarily put a cap of years of contention with Love/Irving/Lebron at 6?

Wiggins is such an unknown...you simply do not risk 8 years of for sure contention barring injuries in favor of hoping an unproven rookie becomes as good as a 26/12/4 sharp shooting beast of a rebounder pf that makes you elite now.

So if your eyes, if Wiggins becomes the next #1 in the league, how will you be whistling your tune?

[DMAVS41]

So if your eyes, if Wiggins becomes the next #1 in the league, how will you be whistling your tune?

I will say it was still the smart thing to do at the time.

Anything can happen.

I could ask you the same thing.

So in your eyes, if Wiggins becomes the next Michael Beasley in the league, how will you be whistling your tune?

[Straight_Ballin]

I will say it was still the smart thing to do at the time.

Anything can happen.

I could ask you the same thing.

So in your eyes, if Wiggins becomes the next Michael Beasley in the league, how will you be whistling your tune?

There's been many "it was the smart idea at the time"
that turned out to be bad choices, is what I'm saying.

[Kingwillball]

Wiggins could possibly be the best player in the league eventually.

He could also turn out to be Andre Igoudala or Shawn Marion level.


Do it. Do the damn trade.


Lebron right out of HS had 20,5,5 on his opening night and never looked back lets see Wiggins do that than we will talk.

[comerb]

Wiggins will not be the best player in the league. He doesn't have the fire or drive for it, sometimes I'm not even sure he likes basketball all that much. However, even if he did, by the time he's hitting his peak he's not staying in Cleveland anyway. They have, at best, about 7 years with him.

[Ca$H]

Where do you get 6...and where do you get 15?

You are just throwing out random numbers with no backing. Wiggins could be Kawhi Leonard in 5 years...we have no idea.

We already know how good Irving and Love are currently...we know about Lebron.

6 years? Why would they only contend for 6 years? Irving will be 27, Love will be 31, and Lebron will be 35....Lebron could be willing to sign the Duncan/Dirk contract in 7 years and they could add another star or other key players.

Why would you arbitrarily put a cap of years of contention with Love/Irving/Lebron at 6?

Wiggins is such an unknown...you simply do not risk 8 years of for sure contention barring injuries in favor of hoping an unproven rookie becomes as good as a 26/12/4 sharp shooting beast of a rebounder pf that makes you elite now.

This is the fact you are overlooking. Love is injury prone and soft.

[Pointguard]

Cleveland is far from a "chosen situation"...they've proven nothing without Lebron, and Wiggins has proven very little against rookies and sophomores alike.

Lebron wants to win now, and if the Cavs/Gilbert has learned anything from their last stint with Lebron...they BETTER sign a fitting 2nd option than to let it rest on a hope and prayer that Wiggins' pans out. If they don't expect Lebron to consider seeking another home next summer, once again.
By Chosen I mean he chose that team.

Kyrie is the second option with or without Love.

[Heatles201]

If i'm Cleveland sure i try to get Kevin Love without Wiggins
but if it comes down to trading him? sure by all means.
KLOVE is a top 10 player right now and its pretty much a perfect fit alongside bron ( stretch the floor) everything on Wiggins is POTENTIAL BASED.
yes he can turn out to be a superstar, good player, average, above avg, bust etc.
So no way in hell do they not move Wiggins for klove if they have a deal agreed upon

[DMAVS41]

There's been many "it was the smart idea at the time"
that turned out to be bad choices, is what I'm saying.

And there have been many decisions made on "potential" and "upside" that have turned out to be bad choices...

I don't see the difference.

The known commodity here is Love. You know that with Love/Lebron/Irving that you are going to contend for titles for at least the next 6 to 8 years barring health concerns.

The unknown is Wiggins. Will he ever learn to shoot well enough to fit in next to Lebron optimally. Will he really become the elite defender everyone expects him to be.

Again, we simply don't know if Wiggins will be better than Leonard. I mean...Leonard will be the clear cut better player between the two for at least this season and the next.

It's not that I don't like Wiggins. I do....it's just that Love fits so perfectly and you know what you are getting...and the dude is only 25.

I don't think the Cavs have to trade Wiggins for Love. I wouldn't mind them trading Waiters and Thompson and picks for other things, but I'm just not sure what those other things are. They badly need stretch shooting and rebounding at the 4...and they need more bigs...and could really use another guard.

What other trades are there out there?

[DMAVS41]

This is the fact you are overlooking. Love is injury prone and soft.

I don't know man...are 12 and 13 enough to say that?

Seems like that one injury was kind of a fluke as well.

[NattyPButter]

In 3-4 years you have no idea how good Lebron will still be. We dont even know if Wiggins will be a superstar. He may very well end up a gerald green or an andre iggy.

In which case you wasted 4 years of Lebron's prime babysitting and then another 8 years losing in the playoffs.

His time wouldn't be wasted or be babysitting. The Cavs would had been in the playoffs if they didn't waste time on Bynum and got rid of Brown earlier. These players have chemistry together and Kryie and TT will be 4 year vets now. Then u have Dion who will be 3 years into to league and just as good as Kyrie. Team only needs a couple more older guys which they got in Lebron and Miller. Love doesn't bring much to the table. Squad already has enough scorers and AV and TT are beast rebounders. The team needs only a shot blocker at the 4 or 5 and Love sure isn't that person.

[DMAVS41]

His time wouldn't be wasted or be babysitting. The Cavs would had been in the playoffs if they didn't waste time on Bynum and got rid of Brown earlier. These players have chemistry together and Kryie and TT will be 4 year vets now. Then u have Dion who will be 3 years into to league and just as good as Kyrie. Team only needs a couple more older guys which they got in Lebron and Miller. Love doesn't bring much to the table. Squad already has enough scorers and AV and TT are beast rebounders. The team needs only a shot blocker at the 4 or 5 and Love sure isn't that person.

TT doesn't fit well next to Lebron...and he's also up after this year as it's best for him to turn down the QO.

Do the Cavs really want to worry about paying him?

The truth that Cavs fans don't want to acknowledge is this;

Thompson might not be worth what other teams will pay him.
Waiters might be a bad locker guy.
Bennett might just not be good.

They won 33 games last year in a pathetically bad conference.

Cavs fans are grossly over-rating some of their players in my opinion.

[04mzwach]

What cases in the past were there when a 1st overall pick was traded for a superstar player like Love? Anybody know?

[NattyPButter]

TT doesn't fit well next to Lebron...and he's also up after this year as it's best for him to turn down the QO.

Do the Cavs really want to worry about paying him?

The truth that Cavs fans don't want to acknowledge is this;

Thompson might not be worth what other teams will pay him.
Waiters might be a bad locker guy.
Bennett might just not be good.

They won 33 games last year in a pathetically bad conference.

Cavs fans are grossly over-rating some of their players in my opinion.

And us Cavs fans don't care about your opinion so stop trying to force Mr. Empty stats down are throats and tell us he's good for the team when u know crap about the team or it's players.

[DMAVS41]

And us Cavs fans don't care about your opinion so stop trying to force Mr. Empty stats down are throats and tell us he's good for the team when u know crap about the team or it's players.

I just got done saying you don't have to trade for Love...

But you guys do need to move TT and picks for something.

You clearly don't even know your own team at all. Good luck with absolutely no spacing/shooting if you don't make moves. And even better luck having to pay Thompson way over his true value next summer to keep him.

Smart teams move Thompson now knowing the situation.

But your franchise and the fans aren't smart...so somehow you'll **** up lucking into a top 10 player of all time for the 2nd time within a few years.

You guys couldn't put more than scraps around Lebron this first time...and if you stand firm and don't move any of these young guys...it will be the same story yet again.

And us NBA fans don't want to see that.

[navy]

His time wouldn't be wasted or be babysitting. The Cavs would had been in the playoffs if they didn't waste time on Bynum and got rid of Brown earlier. These players have chemistry together and Kryie and TT will be 4 year vets now. Then u have Dion who will be 3 years into to league and just as good as Kyrie. Team only needs a couple more older guys which they got in Lebron and Miller. Love doesn't bring much to the table. Squad already has enough scorers and AV and TT are beast rebounders. The team needs only a shot blocker at the 4 or 5 and Love sure isn't that person.

The Cavs won 33 games in the Eastern Conference. They honestly shouldnt have been shit. The Knicks should have been in the playoffs. The Pistons should have been in the playoffs. :rolleyes: You can blame Bynum, you can blame Mike Brown. Sure. Whatever. Merited, acknowledged. That's just was not a good squad.

Cavs fans have yet to see this, but Kyrie, Thompson, and Dion are not that good. Take Lebron off the squad and they are looking at what? 40 wins this year? Maybe the playoffs if the East sucks again?

The teams needs way more than that. The front court of TT and Varejao wont get it done offensively or defensively. Might literally be the worst frontcourt in the NBA. Kevin Love is a top 10, top 15 player at worst. This is a guy capable of winning games by himself. Bad defense and all. When you can get that kind of talent and pair him with Lebron? You take it.

[navy]

And us Cavs fans don't care about your opinion so stop trying to force Mr. Empty stats down are throats and tell us he's good for the team when u know crap about the team or it's players.
Kevin love won 40 games in the Western Conference. His glass is fuller than the entire Cleveland roster. :confusedshrug:

[Milbuck]

And us Cavs fans don't care about your opinion so stop trying to force Mr. Empty stats down are throats and tell us he's good for the team when u know crap about the team or it's players.
:rolleyes:

[Pointguard]

Where do you get 6...and where do you get 15?

You are just throwing out random numbers with no backing. Wiggins could be Kawhi Leonard in 5 years...we have no idea.

We already know how good Irving and Love are currently...we know about Lebron.

6 years? Why would they only contend for 6 years? Irving will be 27, Love will be 31, and Lebron will be 35....Lebron could be willing to sign the Duncan/Dirk contract in 7 years and they could add another star or other key players.

Why would you arbitrarily put a cap of years of contention with Love/Irving/Lebron at 6?

Wiggins is such an unknown...you simply do not risk 8 years of for sure contention barring injuries in favor of hoping an unproven rookie becomes as good as a 26/12/4 sharp shooting beast of a rebounder pf that makes you elite now.
Love lasting long is a question mark. These are his physically strongest years and he isn't that durable now. Wait till he has to play 30 or 40 more games a season and have to play defense? I hope he can play and have a healthy career. I do have my questions.

Finding a center that moves his feet well to cover for Love defensively isn't going to be that easy either. Chicago and Indiana have a tradition of playing scoring PF's. A stretch PF will take Love from underneath. A quick or mobile one is a disaster for Love to guard. It will take a couple of years for him to get used to the playoffs. Wade was great with those full court passes but against Chicago and Indiana that's rarely going to happen even with Loves ability.

At the very least Wiggins is top perimeter defender with great finishing ability. That's bare minimum. He has a great first step and can get by people. His stroke is solid and at his age his jumpshot is above average. He gets hot at times and is way above average. With a creator like Irving, and a post player like Lebron he's going to feast. He's going to score off of his own defense.

They can wait it out for Love. Why be impatient if he really wants to play in Cleveland.

[04mzwach]

There's been blind hate for Love from the start when he was rising to star status. "30 and 20? Those are empty stats! Who cares!?"

[DMAVS41]

Love lasting long is a question mark. These are his physically strongest years and he isn't that durable now. Wait till he has to play 30 or 40 more games a season and have to play defense? I hope he can play and have a healthy career. I do have my questions.

Finding a center that moves his feet well to cover for Love defensively isn't going to be that easy either. Chicago and Indiana have a tradition of playing scoring PF's. A stretch PF will take Love from underneath. A quick or mobile one is a disaster for Love to guard. It will take a couple of years for him to get used to the playoffs. Wade was great with those full court passes but against Chicago and Indiana that's rarely going to happen even with Loves ability.

At the very least Wiggins is top perimeter defender with great finishing ability. That's bare minimum. He has a great first step and can get by people. His stroke is solid and at his age his jumpshot is above average. He gets hot at times and is way above average. With a creator like Irving, and a post player like Lebron he's going to feast. He's going to score off of his own defense.

They can wait it out for Love. Why be impatient if he really wants to play in Cleveland.


I don't see Wiggins as a sure fire top perimeter defender. Again...he's currently giving up crunch time layups to scrubs in summer league. The learning curve is huge.

Let me ask you this;

How long do you think it will be until Wiggins is better than Leonard?

[NattyPButter]

I just got done saying you don't have to trade for Love...

But you guys do need to move TT and picks for something.

You clearly don't even know your own team at all. Good luck with absolutely no spacing/shooting if you don't make moves. And even better luck having to pay Thompson way over his true value next summer to keep him.

Smart teams move Thompson now knowing the situation.

But your franchise and the fans aren't smart...so somehow you'll **** up lucking into a top 10 player of all time for the 2nd time within a few years.

You guys couldn't put more than scraps around Lebron this first time...and if you stand firm and don't move any of these young guys...it will be the same story yet again.

And us NBA fans don't want to see that.

Spacing comes from Lebron who can play the 4 or even Bennett. AV has a good midrange and helps with spacing. Anyways not worried about TT since the team owns his bird rights and the owner isn't cheap. You say the franchise and its fans are not smart but you are the one telling us fans to lose roster depth for Love and cripple the cap space with him.

[AnaheimLakers24]

Not even Lebron would leave the Cavs now.

That isn't a real worry.

Lebron just wants to get the max possible salary when the TV deal is factored in.

And potentially the next CBA will include a provision about 1 player on a team getting paid an amount that only half counts on the cap or something so these stars can make even more...with it capped at 50 million or something.

He's not leaving the Cavs again...
oh ok. if you say so fgt

[Meticode]

I don't want Love if we give up both Waiters and Wiggins. I don't want to gut our SG spot.

Wiggins + Thompson-or-Bennett + picks + scrub is more than enough.

I repeat, if we trade both Wiggins + Waiters for Love, I'm going to do a real life face palm.

[Pointguard]

I don't see Wiggins as a sure fire top perimeter defender. Again...he's currently giving up crunch time layups to scrubs in summer league. The learning curve is huge.

Let me ask you this;

How long do you think it will be until Wiggins is better than Leonard?
It usually takes a month or two before a perimeter player gets used to the one on one style (using Avery Bradley/Shumperts big improvement stages).

Usually its the third year when a player makes his big splash. But neither Kawhi or Paul George were close to scoring 40 points in a game their sophomore years much less their freshman year. And Wiggins did it when the offense wasn't built around him and had to take the load when Embiid couldn't play an important game. I definitely believe Wiggins will have statistically better year than Kawhi this year, even if he plays with Lebron and Kyrie. Coming out of college, Wiggins was far superior to Kawhi or George. I think Wiggins is noticeable quicker, with a better handle, more skilled, sobeit, not as strong.

I think in Minny, Wiggins could be like George is now within his second year. If he stays in Cleveland he's a defensive specialist and will be playing more like Kawhi.

[DMAVS41]

It usually takes a month or two before a perimeter player gets used to the one on one style (using Avery Bradley/Shumperts big improvement stages).

Usually its the third year when a player makes his big splash. But neither Kawhi or Paul George were close to scoring 40 points in a game their sophomore years much less their freshman year. And Wiggins did it when the offense wasn't built around him and had to take the load when Embiid couldn't play an important game. I definitely believe Wiggins will have statistically better year than Kawhi this year, even if he plays with Lebron and Kyrie. Coming out of college, Wiggins was far superior to Kawhi or George. I think Wiggins is noticeable quicker, with a better handle, more skilled, sobeit, not as strong.

I think in Minny, Wiggins could be like George is now within his second year. If he stays in Cleveland he's a defensive specialist and will be playing more like Kawhi.


Forget the stats. I just mean when do you think Wiggins will just actually be as good as Leonard overall as a player?

My point is that it would likely take until his 3rd year...like you said.

Well, think about that. Is that even good enough in year 3 to win the title? I mean...maybe, but it's hardly enough to make them favorites.

So you are likely, if Wiggins really does become elite (hardly a lock), having to wait until his 4th year. Lebron will be 33. What happens if Bennett, Thompson, and Waiters don't really pan out and you are strapped on the cap with Lebron's max and Wiggings getting his max extension soon.

What if you overpaid Tristan Thompson hugely as a favor to Lebron/Rich Paul?

I just see so much unknown on this roster. And with one simple trade....you take the unknown...to 8 years of contending. Especially if you lock Love into a long term deal before the new tv contract...which they would.

It's all about value. Lebron's value is more than the max. Love's value is more than his max. Kyrie, once the cap goes up next year, will be getting paid his value.

That is what you want. Guys that are worth more than they are getting paid.

I worry that without a big move...the Cavs will be stuck overpaying guys that the fans on here clearly over-rate.

Thompson/Waiters/Bennett...they are all grossly over-rated by emotional Cavs fans.

[RedBlackAttack]

I don't want Love if we give up both Waiters and Wiggins. I don't want to gut our SG spot.

Wiggins + Thompson-or-Bennett + picks + scrub is more than enough.

I repeat, if we trade both Wiggins + Waiters for Love, I'm going to do a real life face palm.
You should be face-palming at the one in bold. J/S

"More than enough" is right. The Warriors are currently offering Harrison Barnes and David Lee. That is going to be our counter-offer? :oldlol:

[SupermanOnSteroids]

I hope Cleveland trades Wiggins for Love to appease Lebron and then Lebron opts out leaves. That would totally complete his legacy.

[Pointguard]

Forget the stats. I just mean when do you think Wiggins will just actually be as good as Leonard overall as a player?

My point is that it would likely take until his 3rd year...like you said.

Well, think about that. Is that even good enough in year 3 to win the title? I mean...maybe, but it's hardly enough to make them favorites.

Love doesn't make them favorites. In fact it almost guarantees that they will be very good but not good enough. The cap will be tied with a guy that I can't see getting better. And who leaves a considerable defensive gap. SA's passing is made for two weak defensive players and the Cavs would have invested in that for years. And there will be SA copy cat teams once coaches realize its the only way to compensate for a lack of talent.


So you are likely, if Wiggins really does become elite (hardly a lock), having to wait until his 4th year. Lebron will be 33. What happens if Bennett, Thompson, and Waiters don't really pan out and you are strapped on the cap with Lebron's max and Wiggins getting his max extension soon.

No his third year, which is about the same time in which a Love team would deliver. It could be the second year with Love but its give or take one year. I'm not saying I'm right its just a guess.

I think Cleveland was 11th in rebounding last year with their best rebounder only playing 29 games. zeller and TT will also be better rebounders. They realistically could move all the way to five this year without Love. So now its a matter of Love's scoring, which is going to take a little hit, and his bad defense.

Gasol, Gibson and McDermott are going to go at him hard and he will be new to the playoffs. Scola and West, Nene will be playing PF now, and the Cav's are guaranteed to play at least two of these teams if they put a dent in anything.



It's all about value. Lebron's value is more than the max. Love's value is more than his max. Kyrie, once the cap goes up next year, will be getting paid his value.

That is what you want. Guys that are worth more than they are getting paid.
Value to win it all. Not just dollar value which I'm sure Wiggins will be the best value for the buck after his second year - save maybe only Embiid.


I worry that without a big move...the Cavs will be stuck overpaying guys that the fans on here clearly over-rate.

I don't know how that applies here? I got lost somewhere?


Thompson/Waiters/Bennett...they are all grossly over-rated by emotional Cavs fans.
I only like Thompson at the moment. He has one of the best touches around the rim I seen in a while but is a bit undersized. Bennett, whom I thought sucked this year, shows a some signs of growth and ability. Waiters won't do much good staying here, but could be a player someplace else.

[Kingwillball]

You should be face-palming at the one in bold. J/S

"More than enough" is right. The Warriors are currently offering Harrison Barnes and David Lee. That is going to be our counter-offer? :oldlol:


Barnes and Lee are two starting type players.. Wiggins and Bennet are two bench players at this point. Yes more upside but not ready to contribute on nightly basis like those 2. Wiggins,Bennet WITH TT or Waiters is a bad move. Just those 2 and the Cavs have a lethal looking team for at least the next 4 or 5 years on paper.

If Minny took Waiters and Bennet plus picks than the Cavs would be championship favorites by 2nd season. I doubt Minny does that however.

[Draz]

Here's the thing. We know love is top 10 already. Wiggins has potential to be that. But win mode now would mean get love.

[Pointguard]

Here's the thing. We know love is top 10 already. Wiggins has potential to be that. But win mode now would mean get love.

This is being touted as a top three draft all time and Wiggins went number one. Parker plays like Mello did. Embiid shows signs of being a mix of Hakeem with great fundamentals like Duncan. Exum has a first step like Westbrook with a better team basketball mentality.

Love will not have them winning anytime soon.

Waiters is a too small defender. Love too slow and unwilling defender, Kyrie is a bad defender, AV will have to stay healthy. Different if Lebron had a good defensive year last year but he can't compensate for the other starters minus AV. SA will sweep this team. They might win a game against the Bulls. They aren't beating OKC or the Clippers either. Love isn't going to stay in Minny. Its not a commanding position for Minny. If Cleveland plays weak now, they will be a weak team.

[DMAVS41]

Love doesn't make them favorites. In fact it almost guarantees that they will be very good but not good enough. The cap will be tied with a guy that I can't see getting better. And who leaves a considerable defensive gap. SA's passing is made for two weak defensive players and the Cavs would have invested in that for years. And there will be SA copy cat teams once coaches realize its the only way to compensate for a lack of talent.


No his third year, which is about the same time in which a Love team would deliver. It could be the second year with Love but its give or take one year. I'm not saying I'm right its just a guess.

I think Cleveland was 11th in rebounding last year with their best rebounder only playing 29 games. zeller and TT will also be better rebounders. They realistically could move all the way to five this year without Love. So now its a matter of Love's scoring, which is going to take a little hit, and his bad defense.

Gasol, Gibson and McDermott are going to go at him hard and he will be new to the playoffs. Scola and West, Nene will be playing PF now, and the Cav's are guaranteed to play at least two of these teams if they put a dent in anything.


Value to win it all. Not just dollar value which I'm sure Wiggins will be the best value for the buck after his second year - save maybe only Embiid.


I don't know how that applies here? I got lost somewhere?

I only like Thompson at the moment. He has one of the best touches around the rim I seen in a while but is a bit undersized. Bennett, whom I thought sucked this year, shows a some signs of growth and ability. Waiters won't do much good staying here, but could be a player someplace else.



You realize the Cavs traded Zeller...right?

It comes down to this.

Wiggins/filler or Love/Dieng for the next 8 years? I don't see how anyone talking strictly basketball would ever side with the Wiggins part of it.

[Dragic4Life]

You realize the Cavs traded Zeller...right?

It comes down to this.

Wiggins/filler or Love/Dieng for the next 8 years? I don't see how anyone talking strictly basketball would ever side with the Wiggins part of it.
You can save the argument.

Wiggins for Love is currently a hoax (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=348102).

But who knows.:confusedshrug:

[Im so nba'd out]

You can save the argument.

Wiggins for Love is currently a hoax (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=348102).

But who knows.:confusedshrug:
Pretending like you dont see the thread about you http://gifsec.com/wp-content/uploads/GIF/2014/04/Vladimir-Putin-laugh-gif.gif

[Dragic4Life]

Pretending like you dont see the thread about you http://gifsec.com/wp-content/uploads/GIF/2014/04/Vladimir-Putin-laugh-gif.gif
Get off my back.

[DMAVS41]

Here's the thing. We know love is top 10 already. Wiggins has potential to be that. But win mode now would mean get love.

It's not just win now.

It's literally be contenders for the next 8 years....and I'm still not sure why we have to pretend that 29 year old Kyrie, 33 year old Love, and 37 year old Lebron can't contend. Lebron would probably be willing to take a huge discount by then....

If this team drafts well and makes smart moves over the next 8 years...they would counted for a long long time.

The argument for Wiggins is basically....yea, but we'll be able to contend after Lebron retires in 10 or so years. ROFL...okay...good luck with that. Wiggins would literally have to end up being better than Durant and Kobe for that to make sense...and I'm still not even sure it would.

[DMAVS41]

You can save the argument.

Wiggins for Love is currently a hoax (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=348102).

But who knows.:confusedshrug:

Well, I just watched Marc Stein report it on Sports Center. I trust him.

[Dragic4Life]

Well, I just watched Marc Stein report it on Sports Center. I trust him.
I dunno man...

Stein is definitely more, FAR more credible than that idiot Broussard. I hope hope hope it's still true because I want Love to play with Lebron.

[Im so nba'd out]

Get off my back.
sorry about that:(

[BrownEye007]

Forget the stats. I just mean when do you think Wiggins will just actually be as good as Leonard overall as a player?

My point is that it would likely take until his 3rd year...like you said.

Well, think about that. Is that even good enough in year 3 to win the title? I mean...maybe, but it's hardly enough to make them favorites.

So you are likely, if Wiggins really does become elite (hardly a lock), having to wait until his 4th year. Lebron will be 33. What happens if Bennett, Thompson, and Waiters don't really pan out and you are strapped on the cap with Lebron's max and Wiggings getting his max extension soon.

What if you overpaid Tristan Thompson hugely as a favor to Lebron/Rich Paul?

I just see so much unknown on this roster. And with one simple trade....you take the unknown...to 8 years of contending. Especially if you lock Love into a long term deal before the new tv contract...which they would.

It's all about value. Lebron's value is more than the max. Love's value is more than his max. Kyrie, once the cap goes up next year, will be getting paid his value.

That is what you want. Guys that are worth more than they are getting paid.

I worry that without a big move...the Cavs will be stuck overpaying guys that the fans on here clearly over-rate.

Thompson/Waiters/Bennett...they are all grossly over-rated by emotional Cavs fans.
Your problem is you think Kevin Love guarantees multiple years of contending but he doesn't. And 8 years? Didn't you call out some other dude using random numbers earlier in this thread?

[Vancouver-Grizz]

funny a lot of posters on this thread claims Wiggins has done crap on the floor and he is unproven. The Wigster doesnt even have a chance to prove himself on the floor and you guys act like he has committed a crime.

Take a step back and look in this situation. Bennett is looking good and Wiggins has been solid in summer league play. Give them a shot with LeBron as maturity/confidence grows a lot faster when you are winning.

Love is a great player and I dont doubt they can win with him but the size of his contract will put the Cavs in the SAME place as the Heat and they will not have much of a supporting cast. New CBA basically eliminates 3 max players in the second terms of their contracts. Lebron/irving is making the max and you guys expect Love to take a pay cut?

[DMAVS41]

funny a lot of posters on this thread claims Wiggins has done crap on the floor and he is unproven. The Wigster doesnt even have a chance to prove himself on the floor and you guys act like he has committed a crime.

Take a step back and look in this situation. Bennett is looking good and Wiggins has been solid in summer league play. Give them a shot with LeBron as maturity/confidence grows a lot faster when you are winning.

Love is a great player and I dont doubt they can win with him but the size of his contract will put the Cavs in the SAME place as the Heat and they will not have much of a supporting cast. New CBA basically eliminates 3 max players in the second terms of their contracts. Lebron/irving is making the max and you guys expect Love to take a pay cut?

So you should do what? Overpay Thompson this summer? Looking at 10 to 12 million. Then overpay Waiters the next summer?

You want good value contracts...Love at the max is good value because he's worth more than the max. Bosh and Wade the last 2 years were not worth close to their salary. That is the part you are missing.

All about value. Wiggins will be a great value on his rookie deal...if the Cavs had better players...I'd definitely keep him. But unless they can flip Waiters/Thompson picks into key guys...then trading Wiggins makes the most sense.

And, it sounds like TT is off limits due to the Rich Paul/Lebron stuff.

It's honestly not a great basketball situation going forward given the contracts of Waiters and Thompson are up the next two years respectively.

[DMAVS41]

Your problem is you think Kevin Love guarantees multiple years of contending but he doesn't. And 8 years? Didn't you call out some other dude using random numbers earlier in this thread?

So a healthy Kyrie, Lebron, and Kevin Love in a weak conference doesn't guarantee contending? Okay...then nothing in the history of the game guarantees contending. Fine.

8 years isn't random. Kyrie will still be under 30. Love will be at the tail end of his prime. Lebron will be out of his prime, but still a very good player.

That is all based on the evidence. It's not a random number at all. And...Lebron will likely be just finishing up his 5 year max at that time...and might take a huge discount for the team like Dirk just did.

Imagine Lebron at 10 million a year with Kyrie/Love...and if they draft well...they'd have young players and cap room.

I have to laugh though...Lebron, Kyrie, Love...with a solid built out team of young players isn't enough to contend. What the **** is then? How much ****ing help do these players of this era ****ing need?

[Pointguard]

You realize the Cavs traded Zeller...right?
Yeah I forgot. Doesn't chnge the argument much at all though. They still are a top 6 rebounding team, instead of top 5, note I didn't put Lebron's numbers in there. Lebron had more rebounds per game than Zeller.


Wiggins/filler or Love/Dieng for the next 8 years?
Dieng can make it appeaseable but Minny can't give up two prizes when they just thought they were going to lose Love in the first place. The Cavs would have to give up three players or four players they don't have, too.



I don't see how anyone talking strictly basketball would ever side with the Wiggins part of it.

Love as a key piece with Irving guarantees you having a team that doesn't get fouls, can't play defense and will be small for five years.They have a lot of tweeners now. Love, Irving or Lebron aren't going to get much better either.

Wiggins has the potential to be great. And will likely be a better player than Love in three years. Love isn't good enough to make them likely champions.