why rings>>>RS MVPs

[knicksman]

because rings are alphaish. Alphas enjoy challenges so they want to prove wrong what betas think about rings being a team accomplishment

[moe94]

http://static.fjcdn.com/gifs/the_faefc3_981105.gif

[navy]

Rings are won by the entire team. Beta.

MVPs are won by individuals. Alpha.

FMVPs are won by individuals who get the rings. Alpha as fvck.

You mad bro?

[knicksman]

Rings are won by the entire team. Beta.

MVPs are won by individuals. Alpha.

FMVPs are won by individuals who get the rings. Alpha as fvck.

You mad bro?

We have the same thinking brah:cheers: .. But I have higher standards. FMVPs are the only alpha for me. MVPs are beta. So Me>>>You

[knicksman]

http://static.fjcdn.com/gifs/the_faefc3_981105.gif

Oh hi there my beta follower.

[NumberSix]

MVP = best player
Ring = best team
FMVP = best player on best team

[Skyscraper]

We have the same thinking brah:cheers: .. But I have higher standards. FMVPs are the only alpha for me. MVPs are beta. So Me>>>You

Kahwi Leonard, Chauncey Billups, Tony Parker alpha? :confusedshrug:

More like right place right time

[Trollsmasher]

another strong thread by the OP

[Skyscraper]

MVP = best player
Ring = best team
FMVP = best player on best team


MVP =/= best player all the time

If so, Lebron would win every year.


MVP is a MEDIA AWARD.
Players don't vote on it
Coaches don't vote on it

the MEDIA ****-ysts rely on context and their "gut feeling" (as well as whole selection of different sauces) to tell them who to vote for

If MVP were truly best player, JOrdan would have won like 10.



MVP is just a pissing contest. CAn't rely on that

All Star MVP is just who ballhogs best




However, MVP begins to have some value when added onto a ring that year and most powerful it makes the FMVP more legitimate

[NumberSix]

MVP =/= best player all the time

If so, Lebron would win every year.


MVP is a MEDIA AWARD.
Players don't vote on it
Coaches don't vote on it

the MEDIA ****-ysts rely on context and their "gut feeling" (as well as whole selection of different sauces) to tell them who to vote for

If MVP were truly best player, JOrdan would have won like 10.



MVP is just a pissing contest. CAn't rely on that

All Star MVP is just who ballhogs best




However, MVP begins to have some value when added onto a ring that year and most powerful it makes the FMVP more legitimate
MVP+FMVP is the ultimate. You don't luck into that. You're never going to see an ok player have a MVP+FMVP season.

[SouBeachTalents]

because rings are alphaish. Alphas enjoy challenges so they want to prove wrong what betas think about rings being a team accomplishment

Well then by this rationale every Knick since the mid 70's has been beta as ****

[SouBeachTalents]

MVP+FMVP is the ultimate. You don't luck into that. You're never going to see an ok player have a MVP+FMVP season.

You can't ever "luck" into an MVP, you might not be the most deserving winner, but you still have to have a very good season as well as lead your team to a top record. Finals MVP is definitely more prone to being won in a fluky fashion, Danny Green could've been Finals MVP last year

[knicksman]

For a superstar, its easier to win MVPs than rings. Iverson, rose, bran, wilt, nash has proven that. Whereas its harder to win a ring. Even bran has to cheat to get it and still needed the refs and ray allen to get it.

[Skyscraper]

You can't ever "luck" into an MVP, you might not be the most deserving winner, but you still have to have a very good season as well as lead your team to a top record. Finals MVP is definitely more prone to being won in a fluky fashion, Danny Green could've been Finals MVP last year

It's all context driven.

Steve Nash 2006 was not the best player but most deserving of MVP as his team was ravaged but he proved he was the Suns system that year

[J Shuttlesworth]

MVP+FMVP is the ultimate. You don't luck into that. You're never going to see an ok player have a MVP+FMVP season.
True.

But you also never see an okay player win MVP. You do see okay players win a ring, or even FMVP sometimes (Leonard)

[Skyscraper]

True.

But you also never see an okay player win MVP. You do see okay players win a ring, or even FMVP sometimes (Leonard)


you also see crap players and bench scrubs win a ring also.

See Adam Morrison
two rings

[J Shuttlesworth]

you also see crap players and bench scrubs win a ring also.

See Adam Morrison
two rings
Yep, and whenever people bring up this 5>2 crap, they are saying Horry > Kobe

Which is why pure ring count isn't the best measure of a player's worth

Nobody really thinks Tony Parker is better than CP3 or westbrook, right?

[knicksman]

Yep, and whenever people bring up this 5>2 crap, they are saying Horry > Kobe

Which is why pure ring count isn't the best measure of a player's worth

Nobody really thinks Tony Parker is better than CP3 or westbrook, right?

the difference is that wade/bosh is as good or better than having shaq alone. So 5>2 is a valid argument.

[Lebronxrings]

melo has neither.

[Ne 1]

Yep, and whenever people bring up this 5>2 crap, they are saying Horry > Kobe

Which is why pure ring count isn't the best measure of a player's worth

Nobody really thinks Tony Parker is better than CP3 or westbrook, right?
Winning can only be a criteria for elite players, players who lead their respective teams with their play and put their team mates into position to excel and Robert Horry, though a exceptional role player, cannot be compared to the all-time greats.

[Skyscraper]

Yep, and whenever people bring up this 5>2 crap, they are saying Horry > Kobe

Which is why pure ring count isn't the best measure of a player's worth

Nobody really thinks Tony Parker is better than CP3 or westbrook, right?


however, when ring count is brought up, it is brought up in the context of all time greats with Kobe Lebron and Jordan

Each of those guys has a ton of other accolades that puts them in the same stratosphere (if not the same tier within that atmosphere).

But it's taken into context that Lebron Kobe and Jordan are on a similar plane with each other.

It's the Lebron stans who get butthurt about 6 > 5 > 2 who pull up that "Horry won 7 rings he is GOAT!" nonsense.
It's just specious and circuitous logic designed to make people mad and lead to flame wars

[knicksman]

melo has neither.

at least melo didnt admit being a loser by joining his peers.

[J Shuttlesworth]

the difference is that wade/bosh is as good or better than having shaq alone. So 5>2 is a valid argument.
Is that right?

2000 finals:

Shaq: 38 pts, 16.7 reb, 2.7 blk, 61% shooting

2014 Finals:
Wade/Bosh combined: 29.2 pts, 9 reb, 3.6 ast, .2 blk, 49% FG

You really think it's better to have 2 guys putting up less #'s than 1?

[SouBeachTalents]

Is that right?

2000 finals:

Shaq: 38 pts, 16.7 reb, 2.7 blk, 61% shooting

2014 Finals:
Wade/Bosh combined: 29.2 pts, 9 reb, 3.6 ast, .2 blk, 49% FG

You really think it's better to have 2 guys putting up less #'s than 1?

You can add

2013 Finals
Wade/Bosh: 32 ppg, 13 boards, 47%

2012 Finals
Wade/Bosh: 38 ppg, 15 boards, 46%

[AintNoSunshine]

What the fukk does a Knicks fan know about rings? They haven't won that thing since you were born.

[stanlove1111]

FMVP = best player on best team
The obsession with fmvps is one of the lamest things on this board and that is saying a lot.


It's one series..

Player A can dominate the first 3 series in the players and play great in the finals but have a teammate play better and get the fmvp.


Player b can be the second best player in the first 3 series but be the best player in the finals and get MVP...

Morons on this board think layer b s more impressive..

[SouBeachTalents]

The obsession with fmvps is one of the lamest things on this board and that is saying a lot.


It's one series..

Player A can dominate the first 3 series in the players and play great in the finals but have a teammate play better and get the fmvp.


Player b can be the second best player in the first 3 series but be the best player in the finals and get MVP...

Morons on this board think layer b s more impressive..

I agree 100%, it should be a playoff MVP

[J Shuttlesworth]

You can add

2013 Finals
Wade/Bosh: 32 ppg, 13 boards, 47%

2012 Finals
Wade/Bosh: 38 ppg, 15 boards, 46%
Still not better than SHaq.. and that's two roster spots vs. 1. I could add Glen Rice's stats too to make it two roster spots, and it's clear who had better help.

[Roundball_Rock]

True.

But you also never see an okay player win MVP. You do see okay players win a ring, or even FMVP sometimes (Leonard)

Exactly. MVP is the most prestigious award in basketball. While it is not a best player award it is the closest thing to it. Look at the roster of players with 3+ MVP's (I believe G.O.A.T. has made this point in the past): KAJ, MJ, Russell, Wilt, LeBron, Bird, Magic, Moses. These players outside of Moses are all in people's top 6-7 all-time and Moses is just outside the top 10. Then you have K. Malone, Duncan, Nash and Petit with 2. That is a top 10 player and two other top 20 players along with a top 30 player.

The roster of all-star game MVP's is better than the roster of FMVP's:

FMVP

Player Count

Michael Jordan NBA 6
Tim Duncan NBA 3
Magic Johnson NBA 3
Shaquille O'Neal NBA 3
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar NBA 2
Larry Bird NBA 2
Kobe Bryant NBA 2
LeBron James NBA 2
Hakeem Olajuwon NBA 2
Willis Reed NBA 2
Rick Barry NBA 1
Chauncey Billups NBA 1
Wilt Chamberlain NBA 1
Joe Dumars NBA 1
John Havlicek NBA 1
Dennis Johnson NBA 1
Kawhi Leonard NBA 1
Moses Malone NBA 1
Cedric Maxwell NBA 1
Dirk Nowitzki NBA 1
Tony Parker NBA 1
Paul Pierce NBA 1
Isiah Thomas NBA 1
Wes Unseld NBA 1
Dwyane Wade NBA 1
Bill Walton NBA 1
Jerry West NBA 1
Jo Jo White NBA 1
James Worthy NBA 1

ASMVP

Player Count

Kobe Bryant NBA 4
Bob Pettit NBA 4
Michael Jordan NBA 3
Shaquille O'Neal NBA 3
Oscar Robertson NBA 3
Bob Cousy NBA 2
Julius Erving NBA 2
Allen Iverson NBA 2
LeBron James NBA 2
Magic Johnson NBA 2
Karl Malone NBA 2
Isiah Thomas NBA 2
Tiny Archibald NBA 1
Paul Arizin NBA 1
Charles Barkley NBA 1
Rick Barry NBA 1
Elgin Baylor NBA 1
Dave Bing NBA 1
Larry Bird NBA 1
Wilt Chamberlain NBA 1
Tom Chambers NBA 1
Dave Cowens NBA 1
Mel Daniels ABA 1
Tim Duncan NBA 1
Kevin Durant NBA 1
Walt Frazier NBA 1
Kevin Garnett NBA 1
George Gervin NBA 1
Hal Greer NBA 1
Kyrie Irving NBA 1
Jerry Lucas NBA 1
Ed Macauley NBA 1
George Mikan NBA 1
Chris Paul NBA 1
Scottie Pippen NBA 1
Willis Reed NBA 1
Glen Rice NBA 1
Mitch Richmond NBA 1
Bill Russell NBA 1
Ralph Sampson NBA 1
Bill Sharman NBA 1
Adrian Smith NBA 1
Randy Smith NBA 1
John Stockton NBA 1
David Thompson NBA 1
Dwyane Wade NBA 1
Jerry West NBA 1
Lenny Wilkens NBA 1

[SouBeachTalents]

Exactly. MVP is the most prestigious award in basketball. While it is not a best player award it is the closest thing to it. Look at the roster of players with 3+ MVP's (I believe G.O.A.T. has made this point in the past): KAJ, MJ, Russell, Wilt, LeBron, Bird, Magic, Moses. These players outside of Moses are all in people's top 6-7 all-time and Moses is just outside the top 10. Then you have K. Malone, Duncan, Nash and Petit with 2. That is a top 10 player and two other top 20 players along with a top 30 player.

You think Nash is top 30?

[tpols]

Exactly. MVP is the most prestigious award in basketball. While it is not a best player award it is the closest thing to it. Look at the roster of players with 3+ MVP's (I believe G.O.A.T. has made this point in the past): KAJ, MJ, Russell, Wilt, LeBron, Bird, Magic, Moses. These players outside of Moses are all in people's top 6-7 all-time and Moses is just outside the top 10. Then you have K. Malone, Duncan, Nash and Petit with 2. That is a top 10 player and two other top 20 players along with a top 30 player.

The roster of all-star game MVP's is better than the roster of FMVP's:

FMVP

Player Count

Michael Jordan NBA 6
Tim Duncan NBA 3
Magic Johnson NBA 3
Shaquille O'Neal NBA 3
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar NBA 2
Larry Bird NBA 2
Kobe Bryant NBA 2
LeBron James NBA 2
Hakeem Olajuwon NBA 2
Willis Reed NBA 2
Rick Barry NBA 1
Chauncey Billups NBA 1
Wilt Chamberlain NBA 1
Joe Dumars NBA 1
John Havlicek NBA 1
Dennis Johnson NBA 1
Kawhi Leonard NBA 1
Moses Malone NBA 1
Cedric Maxwell NBA 1
Dirk Nowitzki NBA 1
Tony Parker NBA 1
Paul Pierce NBA 1
Isiah Thomas NBA 1
Wes Unseld NBA 1
Dwyane Wade NBA 1
Bill Walton NBA 1
Jerry West NBA 1
Jo Jo White NBA 1
James Worthy NBA 1


looks like the standard top 10 GOAT list to me.. anyone with multiple FMVPs was a legend.. if you go by MVPs solely steve nash is > shaq and Kobe and the list wont look nearly as nice

[Rocketswin2013]

Willing to bet it took the OP at least 45 minutes to make this thread.

[joe]

Winning can only be a criteria for elite players, players who lead their respective teams with their play and put their team mates into position to excel and Robert Horry, though a exceptional role player, cannot be compared to the all-time greats.

I totally disagree with this. Winning basketball is also present in certain role players, they have traits that will work well on elite teams. Diaw might not be a superstar, but the willingness to pass, the high basketball IQ, the size and scoring ability. Winning a ring might not help his so called legacy.. but those traits I think are important to look for in non-superstar players.