Free Will is and Illusion.

[Breezy]

Either God exists and he knows every detail of the future which means that your path is already set. Or there is no god and the universe is governed purely by the laws of physics. Since your brain controls you and your brain is made up of physical matter, and is subject to all the same rules that govern any other type of matter. All your thoughts, ideas, movements and feelings are just the result of the material of your brain being acted on by other matter.

Every stroke of a key, every woman you love, every step you take, every thought you have was going to happen since the beginning of time. Even the thought your having right now about weather or not it's true. All predetermined. And there is nothing you can do about it.

[Perfect]

tru dat.

who wants waffles

[dr.hee]

tru dat.

who wants waffles

I'd like a waffle. And a coffe, please. Have to distract myself from OP's incredible edginess.

[masonanddixon]

Do you reject all of the Meditations?

[Breezy]

I can't believe no one is calling my out for my grammatical error in the title.



Do you reject all of the Meditations?

What meditations are you referring to?

[masonanddixon]

I can't believe no one is calling my out for my grammatical error in the title.




What meditations are you referring to?

Descartes. It's usually the first work you are taught in philosophy.

Can you define 'free will' for me?

[masonanddixon]

Your grammatical error about the weather is more troubling to me.:lol

He doesn't have free will, so he couldn't stop himself from making the error :)

[dr.hee]

Your grammatical error about the weather is more troubling to me.:lol

Weather or not weather, that is the question.

[NumberSix]

Time isn't as most people perceive it, or perceive to perceive it. It's has already been proven that it is a physically existing thing and that we don't all move through it at the same rate or a constant rate and we are not at the same point in time..... at the same time, so to speak.

Theoretically, since it's a fact that we are at different points in time, it's only logical that the spectrum of time in it's entirety is subject to this.

[qrich]

Or there is a God, and he gives you the opportunity to make decisions in life.

:eek:

[dr.hee]

Or there is a God, and he gives you the opportunity to make decisions in life.

:eek:

Nah.

[Breezy]

Your grammatical error about the weather is more troubling to me.:lol

It's too late now. Just know it's more troubling to me.


Descartes. It's usually the first work you are taught in philosophy.

Can you define 'free will' for me?

I've never taken philosophy. I barely know who Descartes is. I am just logically reasoning from a few axioms.

Off the top of my head I define free will as an individuals agency in the universe independent of prior causes. But perhaps there is a better definition that more accurately describes choice.


He doesn't have free will, so he couldn't stop himself from making the error :)

Unfortunately true. However the illusion of free will is indistinguishable from the reality of it so I'm still regretful.


Time isn't as most people perceive it, or perceive to perceive it. It's has already been proven that it is a physically existing thing and that we don't all move through it at the same rate or a constant rate and we are not at the same point in time..... at the same time, so to speak.

Theoretically, since it's a fact that we are at different points in time, it's only logical that the spectrum of time in it's entirety is subject to this.

Perhaps you're not being clear, or perhaps I just don't understand the point you're trying to make. However I do understand " It's has already been proven that it is a physically existing thing".

As far as I know that is not true. Can you point me to the proof is for that statement?


Or there is a God, and he gives you the opportunity to make decisions in life.

:eek:

I'm perfectly willing to accept that there are certain realities that I do not understand or even that I could not understand, especially when were dealing with a concept like God.

However just taking that on face value.

If God knows the future then he knows what you will do, and therefore you do not have choice.

[GimmeThat]

if God had defined the purpose of his creation, in which that people were meant to worship God. Then by giving them the ability to re-produce is essentially a huge component to the idea of free will.

Hence the argument of the talking snake, which brought the dawn of destruction and suffering to human. Because had Human not had the ability to re-produce at will, and while we would never cease to exist, Adam and Eve would fulfill the purpose of why God had created them, instead of purpose of their own.

Free Will is an illusion if you believe that you can not control your own mind.
In which, death shall be brought upon you sooner than others.

And if practicing free will leads to your death
Anything but suicide makes an illogical choice of the term free will

[Breezy]

if God had defined the purpose of his creation, in which that people were meant to worship God. Then by giving them the ability to re-produce is essentially a huge component to the idea of free will.

Hence the argument of the talking snake, which brought the dawn of destruction and suffering to human. Because had Human not had the ability to re-produce at will, and while we would never cease to exist, Adam and Eve would fulfill the purpose of why God had created them, instead of purpose of their own.

Free Will is an illusion if you believe that you can not control your own mind.
In which, death shall be brought upon you sooner than others.

And if practicing free will leads to your death
Anything but suicide makes an illogical choice of the term free will

I can't decide what I like more: How coherent and rational that was, how you made your point with pure logic and reasoning, or just the profound thought provoking spiral of contemplation you've put me down.

[robert de niro]

#FreePalestine #FreeWill

[BigBoss]

So what are you going to do with that type of information?

[GimmeThat]

I can't decide what I like more: How coherent and rational that was, how you made your point with pure logic and reasoning, or just the profound thought provoking spiral of contemplation you've put me down.

they say killing with kindness is still killing
which is false, because until someone is dead, there still lies the possibility for them to seek for redemption in which they most likely do not deserve.

since they were suppose to be killed the first time around.

[RoseCity07]

I guess it's also predetermined that some people don't care if life is like this. What does it matter if it's all just some really long roller coaster we don't get off until we're dead? You're choosing to be pessimistic when you could choose to be optimistic about it.

This is why I enjoy doing things that scare me. It can make me feel like I broke away from that "path" of what I'm supposed to be doing. Hitting on a girl that on most days I wouldn't even try. If you're hiding behind an excuse like, "I'm not going to do this, and I guess that's okay because it's predetermined..." then you are a p*ssy.

[ImKobe]

I guess it's also predetermined that some people don't care if life is like this. What does it matter if it's all just some really long roller coaster we don't get off until we're dead? You're choosing to be pessimistic when you could choose to be optimistic about it.

This is why I enjoy doing things that scare me. It can make me feel like I broke away from that "path" of what I'm supposed to be doing. Hitting on a girl that on most days I wouldn't even try. If you're hiding behind an excuse like, "I'm not going to do this, and I guess that's okay because it's predetermined..." then you are a p*ssy.


Agree so much with this post. If you don't take any risks or do things that scare you, you will never know your limits or what you could achieve in life. I love the example about hitting on a girl.

Life is what you make it, either you do nothing and whine like a little p*ssy or you take matters into your own hands, at least if you fail you know that you've given your best and you don't look back on the past thinking "what if...".


It's why I look at fat/lazy people and feel disgusted. Every single one of us has potential to be great. You need to push yourself and strive for things that seem unreachable. We all have one life, why waste it on being pessimistic and not believing in doing/achieving anything? Get off your ass and make it happen. Positive thinking is everything.

[brantonli]

Time isn't as most people perceive it, or perceive to perceive it. It's has already been proven that it is a physically existing thing and that we don't all move through it at the same rate or a constant rate and we are not at the same point in time..... at the same time, so to speak.

Theoretically, since it's a fact that we are at different points in time, it's only logical that the spectrum of time in it's entirety is subject to this.

From what I studied of relativity, there is no such thing as a constant measure for time. We all have our own measure, and for most people it's pretty much exactly the same. It's the relative movement that matters, so you're incorrect in saying 'we are at different points in time', because that implies there's a constant that we can all measure time against.

[Orlando Magic]

Which conflicts with the notion of an omnipotent, all-powerful god. He knows exactly what you're going to do every moment of every situation, because that is how he created you. Intelligent design, with "design" being the key word there. Hence the illusion of free will argument.

To say that free will and predestination can't coexist is shortsighted at best.

Just because the choices we make may have already been determined, doesn't automatically mean they were outside of our will/choice.

As to why we're here... yep, no idea. The only conclusion that I've ever come to is that it's... and I'm saying this in an extremely conservative manner... rather arrogant to presume that you can rationalize/think/have the same level of understanding of an all powerful being.

Do you have any idea how stupid you are? How stupid I am? How stupid we all are? I don't know anything. And you want to compare your intellect to that of an all knowing all powerful being.

It comes down to faith... simple as that.

"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways," declares the LORD. "As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts."

[Orlando Magic]

Also... time doesn't exist other than the now... the right this very instant now. There is no future, there is no past. There is only now. :)

Once you've wrapped your mind around that, get back to me.

[GimmeThat]

I guess it's also predetermined that some people don't care if life is like this. What does it matter if it's all just some really long roller coaster we don't get off until we're dead? You're choosing to be pessimistic when you could choose to be optimistic about it.

This is why I enjoy doing things that scare me. It can make me feel like I broke away from that "path" of what I'm supposed to be doing. Hitting on a girl that on most days I wouldn't even try. If you're hiding behind an excuse like, "I'm not going to do this, and I guess that's okay because it's predetermined..." then you are a p*ssy.

justification makes trying to relate any action to optimistic or pessmistic sounds like a 3 years old argument.

[fiddy]

god can suck my dick

[Real Men Wear Green]

Why would an all-knowing, all-powerful being micromanage the affairs of a bunch of teenage troll twits on a message board? He'd be board to tears. God has more interesting things to do.

[Perfect]

I guess it's also predetermined that some people don't care if life is like this. What does it matter if it's all just some really long roller coaster we don't get off until we're dead? You're choosing to be pessimistic when you could choose to be optimistic about it.

This is why I enjoy doing things that scare me. It can make me feel like I broke away from that "path" of what I'm supposed to be doing. Hitting on a girl that on most days I wouldn't even try. If you're hiding behind an excuse like, "I'm not going to do this, and I guess that's okay because it's predetermined..." then you are a p*ssy.
hence waffles

QED

[NumberSix]

From what I studied of relativity, there is no such thing as a constant measure for time. We all have our own measure, and for most people it's pretty much exactly the same. It's the relative movement that matters, so you're incorrect in saying 'we are at different points in time', because that implies there's a constant that we can all measure time against.
Except that I explicitly said it's not constant.

I don't want to argue definitions of words, so I'll use your own for the sake of clarification.

Our perception of time is constant, but physically existing time isn't constant relative to our perception of time. What you want to call a "moment", we are not always in the same moment. Sometimes we are, sometimes we aren't.

Time isn't an abstract concept. It exists and we don't move through it at a constant rate and everyone's travel through it is slightly different.

[DonDadda59]

Except that I explicitly said it's not constant.

I don't want to argue definitions of words, so I'll use your own for the sake of clarification.

Our perception of time is constant, but physically existing time isn't constant relative to our perception of time. What you want to call a "moment", we are not always in the same moment. Sometimes we are, sometimes we aren't.

Time isn't an abstract concept. It exists and we don't move through it at a constant rate and everyone's travel through it is slightly different.

http://media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/de/ed/a5/deeda5ed422cac28397424b5d5e8903f.jpg

[KNOW1EDGE]

Time does not exist.

It's just a made up concept by humans.

[SpecialQue]

The concept of hell is proof enough that "free will" is a pile of shit. "Do what you want, but if I disagree with what you do I'll let someone go Bastard of Bolton on you." Yeah...that's not much of a choice.

[gts]

#FreePalestine #FreeWill
#FreeWilly

[Breezy]

So what are you going to do with that type of information?

There is nothing you can do. What I do is take comfort in the notion that the illusion of free will is indistinguishable from the reality of free will. In other words.. It feels real to me.


they say killing with kindness is still killing
which is false, because until someone is dead, there still lies the possibility for them to seek for redemption in which they most likely do not deserve.

since they were suppose to be killed the first time around.

I'm going to be totally straight with you. Nothing you say makes any sense. Your sentence structure sound like you sewed together 10 different ideas in separate sentences and made them into one paragraph. It's very incoherent. Is English not your first language?


I guess it's also predetermined that some people don't care if life is like this.

Correct

What does it matter if it's all just some really long roller coaster we don't get off until we're dead?

It doesn't matter.


You're choosing to be pessimistic when you could choose to be optimistic about it.

Actually, if you follow the logic. I'm not choosing to be pessimistic, and you're not choosing to be optimistic. There is no choice. It's an illusion. My feelings on the topic and your feelings are not selected between many possible outcomes. They are the only thoughts and feelings we could have had. We don't even choose our attitudes. It just feels that way.


This is why I enjoy doing things that scare me. It can make me feel like I broke away from that "path" of what I'm supposed to be doing. Hitting on a girl that on most days I wouldn't even try. If you're hiding behind an excuse like, "I'm not going to do this, and I guess that's okay because it's predetermined..." then you are a p*ssy.

I'm glad you take risks in life and that it brings you pleasure. My point however is that 'feeling' like you're straying from the path is just that, a feeling. Not a reality. There are no excuses. Absolutely everything: Your attitude, Me typing this, you reacting to it, Your risks. All set in stone. Inevitable and absolute.


To say that free will and predestination can't coexist is shortsighted at best.

Just because the choices we make may have already been determined, doesn't automatically mean they were outside of our will/choice.

Yes it does. If God knows the future then that's it. He KNOWS it. It's just as set in stone as the past. Foreknowledge of the future is by definition a refutation of free will. Even in that sentence you re-affirm it. If our choices have been 'determined' then they aren't out choices. They are the result of the acting of outside forces.


Also... time doesn't exist other than the now... the right this very instant now. There is no future, there is no past. There is only now. :)

Once you've wrapped your mind around that, get back to me.

Time is a conceptual abstraction that does not exist. Like numbers, Forests, the government... ect.


Time does not exist.

It's just a made up concept by humans.

More or less correct.


The concept of hell is proof enough that "free will" is a pile of shit. "Do what you want, but if I disagree with what you do I'll let someone go Bastard of Bolton on you." Yeah...that's not much of a choice.

Come again? I don't follow.


Since I have no free will, apparently a divine being really wants me to say, "OP is a ******."

Pretty much a non sequitur, but you are correct that calling me a F@ggot was a product of destiny rather than a product of your own choosing.

[dunksby]

OP is right, excuse me while I force myself on my housemaid Tess.