Who are the Euroleague Top 10 players?

[Haymaker]

Not counting NBA-bound players. Serious thread please.

[Foster5k]

Rudy Fernandez, a MLE type player in the NBA, is dominating the Euroleague.

/thread

[CHi1PriDe]

Mirotic for sure

Athletic pure scorer and lock down defender, doesn't get any better :bowdown:

[JohnMax]

i don't even know what euroleague is. they seem to have multiple leagues.

[Maga_1]

Currently, in my opinion:
(No order, and by current form not the past).

- Rudy Fernandez
- Sergio Rodriguez
- Ante Tomic
- Keith Langfod
- Daniel Hackett
- Zoran Erceg
- Carlos Arroyo
- Vassilis Spanoulis
- Derrick Brown
- Emir Preldzic

Players that in their "normal form" are in the list:

- Milos Teodosic
- Nenad Krstic
- Juan Carlos Navarro
- Dimitris Diamantidis

[Foster5k]

Currently, in my opinion:
(No order, and by current form not the past).

- Rudy Fernandez
- Sergio Rodriguez
- Ante Tomic
- Keith Langfod
- Daniel Hackett
- Zoran Erceg
- Carlos Arroyo
- Vassilis Spanoulis
- Derrick Brown
- Emir Preldzic
Looks somewhat like a decent bench in the NBA.

[Rooster]

Looks somewhat like a decent bench in the NBA.

That's a tanking mode bench.:oldlol:

[LoneyROY7]

Sergio Rodriguez and Carlos Arroyo. :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

:roll:

[qrich]

Currently, in my opinion:
(No order, and by current form not the past).

- Rudy Fernandez
- Sergio Rodriguez
- Ante Tomic
- Keith Langfod
- Daniel Hackett
- Zoran Erceg
- Carlos Arroyo
- Vassilis Spanoulis
- Derrick Brown
- Emir Preldzic

Players that in their "normal form" are in the list:

- Milos Teodosic
- Nenad Krstic
- Juan Carlos Navarro
- Dimitris Diamantidis


Daniel Hackett...aka DJ Hackett that played at USC? Dude was so overrated by Trojan fans, and he's top 10 now? Must have improved.

Mike Taylor, Will Conroy, Gabe Pruitt, Mike Roll, Jared Jordan, etc. all were much superior to the Hack.

[Maga_1]

Daniel Hackett...aka DJ Hackett that played at USC? Dude was so overrated by Trojan fans, and he's top 10 now? Must have improved.

Mike Taylor, Will Conroy, Gabe Pruitt, Mike Roll, Jared Jordan, etc. all were much superior to the Hack.

He can run the offense and he can score, he has a lot of heart.. but still. he's a headcase.

All the names that you mentioned i only know Gabe Pruitt cause he had a stint in the Celtics (i think?).

[qrich]

He can run the offense and he can score, he has a lot of heart.. but still. he's a headcase.

All the names that you mentioned i only know Gabe Pruitt cause he had a stint in the Celtics (i think?).

From what I remember, Hackett was like Pat Beverly with a jumper. Seems like a good analysis of him currently.

Rest of those guys were players that I thought would stick in the pros/make a name of themselves somewhere but fell off, opposite of DJ apparently, though, I think were/are more talented.

And yeah, Pruitt was on the Celtics and was the backcourt duo with Sushi at USC.

[Maga_1]

From what I remember, Hackett was like Pat Beverly with a jumper. Seems like a good analysis of him currently.

Rest of those guys were players that I thought would stick in the pros/make a name of themselves somewhere but fell off, opposite of DJ apparently, though, I think were/are more talented.

And yeah, Pruitt was on the Celtics and was the backcourt duo with Sushi at USC.

Yea, he can shoot.. it's one of his main weapons right now.
He had some troubles between teams and currently has some controversy in the Italian NT.

[Fiba basketball]

Currently, in my opinion:
(No order, and by current form not the past).

- Rudy Fernandez
- Sergio Rodriguez
- Ante Tomic
- Keith Langfod
- Daniel Hackett
- Zoran Erceg
- Carlos Arroyo
- Vassilis Spanoulis
- Derrick Brown
- Emir Preldzic

Players that in their "normal form" are in the list:

- Milos Teodosic
- Nenad Krstic
- Juan Carlos Navarro
- Dimitris Diamantidis

Boleded aren't even close except Brown.

Erceg was a 2nd PF on CSKA and maybe their 5th best player and you call him top 10 . Arroyo is same as Erceg, great on team like Galata but on better team like Barcelona, Real, CSKA he wouldn't even be first PG.

Preldzic played great in regular season but after that he was bad and that was the reason Fener didn't make it past top 16.

Hackett IMO showed in Armani how overrated he is. Hss FG% was 39%, I'm sorry but that's horrible for someone that is bad on defense and isn't that great of a passer.

Brown is close but there are many players on his postion only that you can argue are better such as Khryapa, Lorbek, Lampe, Bjelica.

Teodosic lead CSKA to win VTB and was named the MVP, same as Navarro did with Barcelona in Endesa so I don't know what would you consdier their normal level of play.

Player that deserves to be named on this list is Oleson. great player that plays on both sides on the court and very efficiant at the same time. Probably the most underrated player in Europe currently.

[Maga_1]

Boleded aren't even close except Brown.

Erceg was a 2nd PF on CSKA and maybe their 5th best player and you call him top 10 . Arroyo is same as Erceg, great on team like Galata but on better team like Barcelona, Real, CSKA he wouldn't even be first PG.

Preldzic played great in regular season but after that he was bad and that was the reason Fener didn't make it past top 16.

Hackett IMO showed in Armani how overrated he is. Hss FG% was 39%, I'm sorry but that's horrible for someone that is bad on defense and isn't that great of a passer.

Brown is close but there are many players on his postion only that you can argue are better such as Khryapa, Lorbek, Lampe, Bjelica.

Teodosic lead CSKA to win VTB and was named the MVP, same as Navarro did with Barcelona in Endesa so I don't know what would you consdier their normal level of play.

Player that deserves to be named on this list is Oleson. great player that plays on both sides on the court and very efficiant at the same time. Probably the most underrated player in Europe currently.

- Erceg is currently the most underrated player in Europe.
- Erceg and Arroyo were some of the top players in Euroleague this season.
- Teodosic had an horrible season, lots of ups and downs.
- Navarro played well in the finals, and 2 or 3 games in Euroleague the entire season.

I didn't argue about this players talent (the ones i left out), they are top 10 easily.. but they had inconsistent seasons, they never performed well for long stretches, while the others did most of the time.

I agree with Oleson, he was tremendous this season for Barcelona.
Too bad he "wasted" a lot of in Baskonia, on a system that didn't fit him very well.

How can you argue that Brown wasn't better then Lampe and Lorbek? They barely played this year. Again, i talked about currently form.

[ottooooooo]

where do you all watch euroleague games? I wouldn't mind checking some out.

[Milbuck]

Currently, in my opinion:
(No order, and by current form not the past).

- Rudy Fernandez
- Sergio Rodriguez
- Ante Tomic
- Keith Langfod
- Daniel Hackett
- Zoran Erceg
- Carlos Arroyo
- Vassilis Spanoulis
- Derrick Brown
- Emir Preldzic

Players that in their "normal form" are in the list:

- Milos Teodosic
- Nenad Krstic
- Juan Carlos Navarro
- Dimitris Diamantidis
Impressive, about 1/4 of those guys could crack an NBA roster.

[Haymaker]

Boleded aren't even close except Brown.

Erceg was a 2nd PF on CSKA and maybe their 5th best player and you call him top 10 . Arroyo is same as Erceg, great on team like Galata but on better team like Barcelona, Real, CSKA he wouldn't even be first PG.

Preldzic played great in regular season but after that he was bad and that was the reason Fener didn't make it past top 16.

Hackett IMO showed in Armani how overrated he is. Hss FG% was 39%, I'm sorry but that's horrible for someone that is bad on defense and isn't that great of a passer.

Brown is close but there are many players on his postion only that you can argue are better such as Khryapa, Lorbek, Lampe, Bjelica.

Teodosic lead CSKA to win VTB and was named the MVP, same as Navarro did with Barcelona in Endesa so I don't know what would you consdier their normal level of play.

Player that deserves to be named on this list is Oleson. great player that plays on both sides on the court and very efficiant at the same time. Probably the most underrated player in Europe currently.

Who's in your top 10 bro?

[bdreason]

where do you all watch euroleague games? I wouldn't mind checking some out.


During the season NBA TV airs one game per week on Saturdays I think.

[Maga_1]

where do you all watch euroleague games? I wouldn't mind checking some out.

Same place where i watch NBA.
www.ifirstrow.eu

Btw, you guys can watch the 4th quarter of the Under20 european championship between Turkey - Spain right now at:

http://live.drakulastream.eu/static/popups/22914705502750.html

[Maga_1]

Impressive, about 1/4 of those guys could crack an NBA roster.

This 15 guys would beat the Bucks, badly. ahahah

[Rooster]

Daniel Hackett...aka DJ Hackett that played at USC? Dude was so overrated by Trojan fans, and he's top 10 now? Must have improved.

Mike Taylor, Will Conroy, Gabe Pruitt, Mike Roll, Jared Jordan, etc. all were much superior to the Hack.

He was so overrated because of his one great game against the Tar Heels. Otherwise he would have ride the pine if Ryan Francis was not killed. He's top 10 in Europe because even the corpse of a scrub like Carlos Arroyo is still top 10 player in Europe.:oldlol:

[Psileas]

Well, here are the players that were chosen by Euroleague fans as the 35 GOAT, along with the other nominees. Note that this list was compiled in 2008, so, it's missing the last 6 seasons:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/50_Greatest_Euroleague_Contributors

[Rooster]

Impressive, about 1/4 of those guys could crack an NBA roster.

Keith Langford is like Keith Buckets over there despite scoring a total of 2 points in the NBA.:oldlol: It will interesting how the recent Eurocup MVP Andrew Goudeluck tore some new Euro holes after tearing the Russians with 20 ppg on 56 % FG in 27 minutes.:oldlol: NBA rejects are making some noise.:applause:

[Fiba basketball]

- Erceg is currently the most underrated player in Europe.
- Erceg and Arroyo were some of the top players in Euroleague this season.
- Teodosic had an horrible season, lots of ups and downs.
- Navarro played well in the finals, and 2 or 3 games in Euroleague the entire season.

I didn't argue about this players talent (the ones i left out), they are top 10 easily.. but they had inconsistent seasons, they never performed well for long stretches, while the others did most of the time.

I agree with Oleson, he was tremendous this season for Barcelona.
Too bad he "wasted" a lot of in Baskonia, on a system that didn't fit him very well.

How can you argue that Brown wasn't better then Lampe and Lorbek? They barely played this year. Again, i talked about currently form.

Erceg isn't underrated he just isn't that good. He's a shooting guard in a body of a big man which is way he can have some great scoring performances but at the end that's a bad thing.

That's why Erceg wasn't that good in elite teams such as CSKA or Olympiacos
and teams like that are where you prove you are one of the best players in Europe. There are a lot of players that are great in good teams but when they sign with big teams they look bad,for example Jacksons was great in Bilbao and was playing even better than Arroyo or Erceg are in Galata but in CSKA he's only a backup.



Teodosic was injured before season and just as he was starting to play well he got injured again but after he recovered from that he was by far the best player in VTB playoffs leading CSKA to championship.

Same with Navarro who was only fully fit at end of the season.

Brown might had better season but he's not a better player ( well maybe better than Lorbek who wasn't that good in last 2 season. I thought it was because of injure he had but it looks like his best days are probably behind him).
Biggest mistake by Pasqual IMO is that he didn't give Lampe playing time but when he did Lampe brought them the championship with his play.

[Milbuck]

This 15 guys would beat the Bucks, badly. ahahah
Interesting how the supposed "best player" of that bunch lasted around 30 games in the NBA and put up a whopping 2.7 ppg on 32% shooting in his prime.

[Maga_1]

Erceg isn't underrated he just isn't that good. He's a shooting guard in a body of a big man which is way he can have some great scoring performances but at the end that's a bad thing.

That's why Erceg wasn't that good in elite teams such as CSKA or Olympiacos
and teams like that are where you prove you are one of the best players in Europe. There are a lot of players that are great in good teams but when they sign with big teams they look bad,for example Jacksons was great in Bilbao and was playing even better than Arroyo or Erceg are in Galata but in CSKA he's only a backup.



Teodosic was injured before season and just as he was starting to play well he got injured again but after he recovered from that he was by far the best player in VTB playoffs leading CSKA to championship.

Same with Navarro who was only fully fit at end of the season.

Brown might had better season but he's not a better player ( well maybe better than Lorbek who wasn't that good in last 2 season. I thought it was because of injure he had but it looks like his best days are probably behind him).
Biggest mistake by Pasqual IMO is that he didn't give Lampe playing time but when he did Lampe brought them the championship with his play.

I hate Aaron Jackson, he's so so overrated. I just hate him :lol

Pasqual rotations are awful, i really don't get what he does on the bench.
I just hope he doesn't stop Satoransky and Westerman's development since they are great young players.

[Rooster]

Well, here are the players that were chosen by Euroleague fans as the 35 GOAT, along with the other nominees. Note that this list was compiled in 2008, so, it's missing the last 6 seasons:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/50_Greatest_Euroleague_Contributors

7 Americans :roll:

Walter Szczerbiak (1967

[Milbuck]

Keith Langford is like Keith Buckets over there despite scoring a total of 2 points in the NBA.:oldlol: It will interesting how the recent Eurocup MVP Andrew Goudeluck tore some new Euro holes after tearing the Russians with 20 ppg on 56 % FG in 27 minutes.:oldlol: NBA rejects are making some noise.:applause:
Did he really get MVP? :oldlol:


Spanoulis is better than LeBron, Paul, and Howard.
:roll:

[Fiba basketball]

Who's in your top 10 bro?

In no order

Teodosic
Krstic
Tomic
Navarro ( when healthy )
Oleson
Spanoulis
Fernandez
Rodrigez
Khryapa
Langford or Papanikolaou

IMO those are the only players in Europe that can make a difference in battle for EL trophy.

[Fiba basketball]

I hate Aaron Jackson, he's so so overrated. I just hate him :lol

Pasqual rotations are awful, i really don't get what he does on the bench.
I just hope he doesn't stop Satoransky and Westerman's development since they are great young players.

When he was comming to CSKA some people were saying how Teodosic would be his backup :oldlol:

I don't think he's rotation is that bad, only things I didn't understand is why Lampe didn't get minutes and why did Sada have advantage over Pullen.

I don't like Satoransky, to selfish for my liking. I don't think Barcelona is a good place for him since he won't have the ball in his hand and will mostly just be calling plays.

Westermann could be good fit for them but he's going on loan next season.

[Rooster]

Did he really get MVP? :oldlol:


:roll:

Remind me of local guys like Edney and Batiste. These guys were legends in Europe but meh here. The only legendary about Tyus Edney was his coast to coast last second shot that helped Bruin winning it all. His NBA career was an afterthought.

[Fiba basketball]

Well, here are the players that were chosen by Euroleague fans as the 35 GOAT, along with the other nominees. Note that this list was compiled in 2008, so, it's missing the last 6 seasons:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/50_Greatest_Euroleague_Contributors

Those are coaches and players that are most deserving for developing basketball in Europe and making it more popular, it has nothing to do with top 10 EL players.

[Psileas]

Those are coaches and players that are most deserving for developing basketball in Europe and making it more popular, it has nothing to do with top 10 EL players.

It absolutely has everything to do with the 10 GOAT EL players. This list covers players judged solely by their Euroleague careers. It doesn't include other pioneering or other legendary contributors of European basketball, like Frank Lubin, who played before the equivalent of Euroleague existed or Oscar Schmidt, who played for lesser, non-Euroleague teams. It just includes 35 players instead of 10 plus 15 more contributors.

[duskovujosevic]

this is list of greatest contributors including coaches and referees, it has nothing to do with top 10 list.

[JUDGE WITNESS]

Interesting how the supposed "best player" of that bunch lasted around 30 games in the NBA and put up a whopping 2.7 ppg on 32% shooting in his prime.
jabari parker would single handedly dismantle that... "squad" :lol

[Fiba basketball]

It absolutely has everything to do with the 10 GOAT EL players. This list covers players judged solely by their Euroleague careers. It doesn't include other pioneering or other legendary contributors of European basketball, like Frank Lubin, who played before the equivalent of Euroleague existed or Oscar Schmidt, who played for lesser, non-Euroleague teams. It just includes 35 players instead of 10 plus 15 more contributors.

Thread isn't about top 10 ever it's about top 10 now

[Euroleague]

Not counting NBA-bound players. Serious thread please.

What is that supposed to mean?

[Oly BC]

Erceg and Krstic over people like Printezis, Hines and Dunston is a crime.

[Euroleague]

Currently, in my opinion:
(No order, and by current form not the past).

- Rudy Fernandez
- Sergio Rodriguez
- Ante Tomic
- Keith Langfod
- Daniel Hackett
- Zoran Erceg
- Carlos Arroyo
- Vassilis Spanoulis
- Derrick Brown
- Emir Preldzic

Players that in their "normal form" are in the list:

- Milos Teodosic
- Nenad Krstic
- Juan Carlos Navarro
- Dimitris Diamantidis


Maga....what in the world are you thinking at the players in bold?

As for the players in "normal form"...Diamantidis and Navarro have not been in "normal form" for years now. I think it's safe to say they are washed up and done.

And Fiba, spare me the BS about Navarro. Because I know you will start it, with "he had a good ACB finals" crap. No. He can play good still if he only has to play once every 3 days for months on end. That's it. And even then he's not remotely near what he used to be.

He can't even make it on a court if he has to play without 3 days rest any time within a few months period.

Diamantidis is like a zombie on the court. The ONLY time he has ever looked anything other than like an ex player is when he plays in the Greek League where the games are all rigged and the refs let him do whatever he wants.

In any other situation, he can barely even dribble a basketball. if it wasn't for the rigging in the Greek League, he would have been forced to retire years ago, and even then as it is, clearly Panathinaikos is 100% trying to force him to retire this season, if they can before the season ends after they hired Ivanovic. It's absolutely obvious they are trying to kick him to the curb and he won't go.

So I don't see how "normal form" can in any way apply to him. He's a complete has been.

As for Krstic...well, his normal form the last couple of years was pretty awful also. Especially this year for all but like one month of the year he was horrible. So how long do we give players for "normal form"? I think 2 years is pushing it.

[Euroleague]

Daniel Hackett...aka DJ Hackett that played at USC? Dude was so overrated by Trojan fans, and he's top 10 now? Must have improved.

Mike Taylor, Will Conroy, Gabe Pruitt, Mike Roll, Jared Jordan, etc. all were much superior to the Hack.

He's not a top 10 player in Euroleague. Maybe he's in the discussion of top 10 in Italian League.

[Euroleague]

Boleded aren't even close except Brown.

Erceg was a 2nd PF on CSKA and maybe their 5th best player and you call him top 10 . Arroyo is same as Erceg, great on team like Galata but on better team like Barcelona, Real, CSKA he wouldn't even be first PG.

Preldzic played great in regular season but after that he was bad and that was the reason Fener didn't make it past top 16.

Hackett IMO showed in Armani how overrated he is. Hss FG% was 39%, I'm sorry but that's horrible for someone that is bad on defense and isn't that great of a passer.

Brown is close but there are many players on his postion only that you can argue are better such as Khryapa, Lorbek, Lampe, Bjelica.

Teodosic lead CSKA to win VTB and was named the MVP, same as Navarro did with Barcelona in Endesa so I don't know what would you consdier their normal level of play.

Player that deserves to be named on this list is Oleson. great player that plays on both sides on the court and very efficiant at the same time. Probably the most underrated player in Europe currently.

Langford isn't even deserving in that list either. Because all he does is shoot, shoot, shoot, shoot, shoot, shoot, shoot.

No defense, no play making, bad shot selection, bad decision making, chucking. And he can only be playing in a wide open team like Milano.

He's like a poor man's version of Sergio Llull, minus even Llull's below average and almost nothing play making.

Oleson is indeed one of the most underrated players in Europe - he deserves to be in the list of top 10 most underrated players in Europe.

Putting him in the top 10 players of Euroleague, not most underrated, but top 10 players of Europe is insane.

Does he make a top 50 list of Euroleague players? OK....then we can talk.

Clearly, you and Maga didn't watch Euroleague this season at all.

If Brad Oleson is a top 10 Euroleague player, then Euroleague is 100 times worse than what any NBA only fan here says it is. And he's one my favorite Euroleague players, so don't think I'm hating on him even one bit.

But that's every bit as crazy as Maga putting Erceg in there.

[Maga_1]

Maga....what in the world are you thinking?

Again, they aren't the best players but they contributed way better this season.

And what's your problem with different opinions?
It looks like i can't have different views of the game?

You can't say that i didn't watch any Euroleague game just because my opinion is different.

[beastee]

Does he make a top 50 list of Euroleague players? OK....then we can talk.
The bottom end of that list must be thinner than Lebron's hairline.

[Euroleague]

- Erceg is currently the most underrated player in Europe.
- Erceg and Arroyo were some of the top players in Euroleague this season.
- Teodosic had an horrible season, lots of ups and downs.
- Navarro played well in the finals, and 2 or 3 games in Euroleague the entire season.

I didn't argue about this players talent (the ones i left out), they are top 10 easily.. but they had inconsistent seasons, they never performed well for long stretches, while the others did most of the time.

I agree with Oleson, he was tremendous this season for Barcelona.
Too bad he "wasted" a lot of in Baskonia, on a system that didn't fit him very well.

How can you argue that Brown wasn't better then Lampe and Lorbek? They barely played this year. Again, i talked about currently form.

Navarro has like one good week of basketball in an entire season for like 3 years now. Fiba just always argues about him on that here. He lives in the past on that. Just like the resident Diamantidis only fans here that will surely jump in this thread and swear he is the best player in Euroleague, even though with 50/50 reffing he can barely even make it past half court in a game without turning the ball over.

Brown is good.........best player at his position? Get serious. He isn't even as good as someone like Printezis. He's a very good player, but come on. Hell, I don't even think he's as good as freaking washed up Nocioni to be honest about it. And Nocioni might just be the worst defender at 4 in all of Euroleague. Is he better than Doellman? Really? I wouldn't even take him over old man Reyes. And for sure Gist is better than he is.

Etc.

Nowhere near top 10.

Erceg......I don't even know what to say..........

OK so,

Fotsis is top 10

Savanovic is top 10

Macvan is top 10

Bjelica is top 10

V. Dragicevic is top 10

Melli is top 10

Petway is top 10


What does he do in anything better than any of these AVERAGE rotation spread fours in Euroleague? I am seriously asking. Because I honestly have no clue at all.

This is the same Erceg that for years has been a bust with Olympiacos and Serbian national team right?

Oleson............again, he;s in the top 10 underrated list probably. Not the top 10 list. He's one of my favorite players, but get serious here - he's not even as good as two guards/combos or swing men like Lojeski, Llull, and guys like that. So how can he be a top 10 player. Or are we adding guys like that to the list?

You guys seriously didn't do any thinking and just threw a bunch of names together. You are right about Navarro though. You can't be a top 10 player when you only play good for 1-2 weeks in a year, despite what Fiba always argues here.

As for Arroyo......he's always been a very very good scorer and ball handler. At his whole career he's been that. But he's a gigantic ball hog. He hogs the ball so freaking much that his teams can't win because of it.

if any team just gives him the ball and the coach just lets him do whatever the hell he wants with it, he can always do well. He could do very well in the NBA at any time like that. But he's Allen Iverson and Stephon Marbury disease - always has been and always will be.

90% of the game in there, with the ball, controlling literally EVERYTHING. That's why his career in the NBA went south after he had all the talent to have a great career (could have been a top point guard in the NBA easily) and always started in teams, but his ego is bigger than the team or the coach.

That's why his national team can't ever win shit even though they are probably the best team in Americas for like the last 6 years.

That's why he plays in Europe in teams like Besiktas or Galatasary and not in better teams. Because after he played in teams like Baskonia and Maccabi everyone learned what a freaking huge ego ball hog he is.

So no, he can't be a top 10 player, because he can't lead his team anywhere. He's a very good player and always has been, but in his mind he's Jordan, and he's not. But he plays that way, and his teams can't win that way. He can have all the stuff he wants in some Galatasaray.....no serious Euroleague team would even play the guy. Maccabi couldn't wait to get rid of him.

A top 10 player has to play winning basketball. Arroyo doesn't.

[Euroleague]

Remind me of local guys like Edney and Batiste. These guys were legends in Europe but meh here. The only legendary about Tyus Edney was his coast to coast last second shot that helped Bruin winning it all. His NBA career was an afterthought.

Scalabrine is a legend in USA.

[Euroleague]

This 15 guys would beat the Bucks, badly. ahahah

That same guy here guaranteed last year that the Bucks would go undefeated in Euroleague..................

:lol :oldlol: :roll: :facepalm :rolleyes:

:biggums:

[Euroleague]

Impressive, about 1/4 of those guys could crack an NBA roster.

Giannis could not make a Greek League roster....

[Foster5k]

Scalabrine is a legend in USA.
:oldlol:

[Milbuck]

That same guy here guaranteed last year that the Bucks would go undefeated in Euroleague..................

:lol :oldlol: :roll: :facepalm :rolleyes:

:biggums:
You seriously think they wouldn't? :roll: :roll:

Jabari would be the GOAT in Euroleague and he's an out of shape 19 year old rookie right now :oldlol: Don't even get me started on Giannis, who was already an all-star by 17 over there.

[Inferno]

Giannis could not make a Greek League roster....

And VSpan was garbage in the NBA

[Milbuck]

Giannis could not make a Greek League roster....
And yet he was a Greek League All-Star at 17 :roll: :roll:

dat logic :oldlol:

[Euroleague]

Did he really get MVP? :oldlol:


:roll:

No, because he did not even play in the league. You can't be the MVP if you don't play in the league.

Just like Giannis was not the MVP in Euroleague or Greek League, because he did not play in either league. Just as you have been told here about 500 times. yet you still keep claiming here he was MVP of both leagues.

[Milbuck]

No, because he did not even play in the league. You can't be the MVP if you don't play in the league.

Just like Giannis was not the MVP in Euroleague or Greek League, because he did not play in either league. Just as you have been told here about 500 times. yet you still keep claiming here he was MVP of both leagues.
I claimed he was an ALL STAR, which he was.

[Euroleague]

In no order

Teodosic
Krstic
Tomic
Navarro ( when healthy )
Oleson
Spanoulis
Fernandez
Rodrigez
Khryapa
Langford or Papanikolaou

IMO those are the only players in Europe that can make a difference in battle for EL trophy.


face it man, Navarro is just old. It happens. Guys get old. He cannot be anywhere near top 10 in Euroleague based on how he played in the last few years. Maga is 100% right on that.

You guys again with the overrating of Langford, super overrating of Oleson, which frankly is ridiculous (he's more like top 50)....but did you just say Papanikolaou?

Papanikoloau?

Papanikoloau?

I don't even know what to............OMG

[Euroleague]

When he was comming to CSKA some people were saying how Teodosic would be his backup :oldlol:

I don't think he's rotation is that bad, only things I didn't understand is why Lampe didn't get minutes and why did Sada have advantage over Pullen.

I don't like Satoransky, to selfish for my liking. I don't think Barcelona is a good place for him since he won't have the ball in his hand and will mostly just be calling plays.

Westermann could be good fit for them but he's going on loan next season.

Jackson is a scrub, but in those games against the NBA he was absolutely holding his own against the NBA players............

It's so hilarious, because he's an absolute SCRUB in the Euroleague compared to the better guards there, but in the NBA games he was really doing quite good...........

:lol :oldlol: :roll:

[Euroleague]

Interesting how the supposed "best player" of that bunch lasted around 30 games in the NBA and put up a whopping 2.7 ppg on 32% shooting in his prime.

Interesting how the "franchise player of the Milwaukee Bucks" wasn't good enough to make any Greek League rosters................

[Milbuck]

Interesting how the "franchise player of the Milwaukee Bucks" wasn't good enough to make any Greek League rosters................
Does "any" include the All Star roster? Because he made that :confusedshrug:

http://i.imgur.com/wBfeRxd.png

[Euroleague]

It absolutely has everything to do with the 10 GOAT EL players. This list covers players judged solely by their Euroleague careers. It doesn't include other pioneering or other legendary contributors of European basketball, like Frank Lubin, who played before the equivalent of Euroleague existed or Oscar Schmidt, who played for lesser, non-Euroleague teams. It just includes 35 players instead of 10 plus 15 more contributors.

No. What Fiba said is exactly right. Stop trolling. Schmidt can't be on the list because he never played in the Euroleague. If you never played in the Euroleague, how the hell could you be one of its best players?

What Fiba said is exactly right.

It's a list of the people that contributed the most to the development of the game. The players that contributed the most, etc.

Of course, NBA only fans turned this into "best 35 players ever bullshit". Because NBA only fans simply lie about everything when it comes to European basketball.

Quit trolling.

I mean come the f on......Dominique Wilkins? Dominique freaking Wilkins? The mere fact you would even for one second think that's a list of 35 best ever players in Euroleague when names like that are on the list shows how much trolling you are doing, or that you are totally delusional.

[Euroleague]

Does "any" include the All Star roster? Because he made that :confusedshrug:

http://i.imgur.com/wBfeRxd.png

Your photo shop "skills" are pathetic.

[Milbuck]

Your photo shop "skills" are pathetic.
Go look it up, pal. The screenshot I posted was from a few weeks ago during another one of these arguments. They altered it to say "special participant", but the fact remains - Giannis was a Greek League All Star as a teenager, and there's nothing you can say to dispute it.

[StephHamann]

Go look it up, pal. The screenshot I posted was from a few weeks ago during another one of these arguments. They altered it to say "special participant", but the fact remains - Giannis was a Greek League All Star as a teenager, and there's nothing you can say to dispute it.

he didn't play in the first tier greek league :facepalm

[Fiba basketball]

Maga....what in the world are you thinking at the players in bold?

As for the players in "normal form"...Diamantidis and Navarro have not been in "normal form" for years now. I think it's safe to say they are washed up and done.

And Fiba, spare me the BS about Navarro. Because I know you will start it, with "he had a good ACB finals" crap. No. He can play good still if he only has to play once every 3 days for months on end. That's it. And even then he's not remotely near what he used to be.

He can't even make it on a court of he has to play without 3 days rest any time within a few months period.

Diamantidis is like a zombie on the court. The ONLY time he has ever looked anything other than like an ex player is when he plays in the Greek League where the games are all rigged and the refs let him do whatever he wants.

In any other situation, he can barely even dribble a basketball. if it wasn't for the rigging in the Greek League, he would have been forced to retire years ago, and even then as it is, clearly Panathinaikos is 100% trying to force him to retire this season, if they can before the season ends after they hired Ivanovic. It's absolutely obvious they are trying to kick him to the curb and he won't go.

So I don't see how "normal form" can in any way apply to him. He's a complete has been.

As for Krstic...well, his normal form the last couple of years was pretty awful also. Especially this year for all but like one month of the year he was horrible. So how long do we give players for "normal form"? I think 2 years is pushing it.


With Serbian NT in last Eurobasket Krstic showed why he's the best C in Europe and that it's Messinas fault for him playing worse than he can by putting him at pf half of the time he was on court.



Navarro has like one good week of basketball in an entire season for like 3 years now. Fiba just always argues about him on that here. He lives in the past on that. Just like the resident Diamantidis only fans here that will surely jump in this thread and swear he is the best player in Euroleague, even though with 50/50 reffing he can barely even make it past half court in a game without turning the ball over.

Brown is good.........best player at his position? Get serious. He isn't even as good as someone like Printezis. He's a very good player, but come on. Hell, I don't even think he's as good as freaking washed up Nocioni to be honest about it. And Nocioni might just be the worst defender at 4 in all of Euroleague. Is he better than Doellman? Really? I wouldn't even take him over old man Reyes. And for sure Gist is better than he is.

Etc.

Nowhere near top 10.

Erceg......I don't even know what to say..........

OK so,

Fotsis is top 10

Savanovic is top 10

Macvan is top 10

Bjelica is top 10

V. Dragicevic is top 10

Melli is top 10

Petway is top 10


What does he do in anything better than any of these AVERAGE rotation spread fours in Euroleague? I am seriously asking. Because I honestly have no clue at all.

This is the same Erceg that for years has been a bust with Olympiacos and Serbian national team right?

Oleson............again, he;s in the top 10 underrated list probably. Not the top 10 list. He's one of my favorite players, but get serious here - he's not even as good as two guards/combos or swing men like Lojeski, Llull, and guys like that. So how can he be a top 10 player. Or are we adding guys like that to the list?

You guys seriously didn't do any thinking and just threw a bunch of names together. You are right about Navarro though. You can't be a top 10 player when you only play good for 1-2 weeks in a year, despite what Fiba always argues here.

As for Arroyo......he's always been a very very good scorer and ball handler. At his whole career he's been that. But he's a gigantic ball hog. He hogs the ball so freaking much that his teams can't win because of it.

if any team just gives him the ball and the coach just lets him do whatever the hell he wants with it, he can always do well. He could do very well in the NBA at any time like that. But he's Allen Iverson and Stephon Marbury disease - always has been and always will be.

90% of the game in there, with the ball, controlling literally EVERYTHING. That's why his career in the NBA went south after he had all the talent to have a great career (could have been a top point guard in the NBA easily) and always started in teams, but his ego is bigger than the team or the coach.

That's why his national team can't ever win shit even though they are probably the best team in Americas for like the last 6 years.

That's why he plays in Europe in teams like Besiktas or Galatasary and not in better teams. Because after he played in teams like Baskonia and Maccabi everyone learned what a freaking huge ego ball hog he is.

So no, he can't be a top 10 player, because he can't lead his team anywhere. He's a very good player and always has been, but in his mind he's Jordan, and he's not. But he plays that way, and his teams can't win that way. He can have all the stuff he wants in some Galatasaray.....no serious Euroleague team would even play the guy. Maccabi couldn't wait to get rid of him.

A top 10 player has to play winning basketball. Arroyo doesn't.

I know Erceg isn't in top 10 but Savanovic in his peak probably was the best pf in Europe so you shouldn't compare them.

[Fiba basketball]

face it man, Navarro is just old. It happens. Guys get old. He cannot be anywhere near top 10 in Euroleague based on how he played in the last few years. Maga is 100% right on that.

You guys again with the overrating of Langford, super overrating of Oleson, which frankly is ridiculous (he's more like top 50)....but did you just say Papanikolaou?

Papanikoloau?

Papanikoloau?

I don't even know what to............OMG

Oleson is great shooter who can also drive to the basket, great defender and he doesn't need to ball in his hands very much so why shouldn't he be good enough for top 10. You ask me did I watch EL this season and then say how Oleson is closer to top 50 than top 10 players in EL, Oleson who while Navarro wasn't healthy was leader of one of the best teams in Europe.

Why do you hate Papanikolaou so much ??? He is maybe the best role player in Europe and just like against CSKA in finals he can decide the game without being under the spotlite.

[Euroleague]

Erceg and Krstic over people like Printezis, Hines and Dunston is a crime.

Evidently, Fiba and Maga have only been watching ACB, Turkish league, VTB league or something for the last few years............

You also forgot Lasme and some other guys too.

What's also hard about this it's just asking Euroleague, but Euroleague is really split up between Euroleague/Eurocup now since the new rules where the teams relegate in and out of both leagues during the season and even now with how they set it up where the best teams from Eurocup can move into Euroleague with the new format that is coming, and this is why many of the best players and richest teams now play in Eurocup.

Also because the league is expanding to 32 teams because of this, but right now it's still at 24 teams, but then you have all these rich teams and good players in Eurocup.

So it's not like old Eurocup. Eurocup is basically like Euroleague B now.

So just limiting this to Euroleague only really isn't fair, as maybe like 1/3 of the best Euroleague players are actually in Eurocup.

[LoneyROY7]

As for Arroyo......he's always been a very very good scorer and ball handler. At his whole career he's been that. But he's a gigantic ball hog. He hogs the ball so freaking much that his teams can't win because of it.

:roll: :roll: :roll:

A guy who's a "very, very good scorer" in the Euroleague is a career 6 ppg player on 43 percent shooting in the NBA.

Just another illustration of the massive disparity of talent between the two.

[Euroleague]

The bottom end of that list must be thinner than Lebron's hairline.


Every main rotation player on any decent Euroleague team can be a rotation player in the NBA. It's NBA only fans that are delusional and don't realize that.

Being top 50 in the Euroleague is basically the same thing as being top 50 in the NBA pretty much.

[Ray22]

Top 10 currently?

Not easy, anyway, IMO:


- Spanoulis
- Rodriguez
- Fernandez
- Tomic
- Teodosic
- Bogdanovic (Bojan)
- Hines
- Langford
- Dunston
- Lampe


Navarro and Diamantidis always deserve to be in this discussion, but I am afraid that they are pretty much done.

[Euroleague]

And yet he was a Greek League All-Star at 17 :roll: :roll:

dat logic :oldlol:

Yes, he was. He was an all star in the local high school YMCA rec league of the Sepolia neighborhood of Athens.

[Euroleague]

I claimed he was an ALL STAR, which he was.

You claimed he was a "Greek League all star at age 17."

What you failed to elaborate on was that he was playing in a local high school YMCA rec league in one of the subdivisions of Athens at that time.

So it was a basketball league in the country of Greece. It was not THE Greek League, as you are claiming.

What you are claiming is the same thing as saying that some kid at the local rec youth club was named the regional all team and thus he was "an NBA all star at age 17" simply because that he was playing basketball in the United States at the time.

[LoneyROY7]

Every main rotation player on any decent Euroleague team can be a rotation player in the NBA. It's NBA only fans that are delusional and don't realize that.

Being top 50 in the Euroleague is basically the same thing as being top 50 in the NBA pretty much.

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[Euroleague]

Go look it up, pal. The screenshot I posted was from a few weeks ago during another one of these arguments. They altered it to say "special participant", but the fact remains - Giannis was a Greek League All Star as a teenager, and there's nothing you can say to dispute it.

He did not play in the Greek League. How many times does this simple concept have to be explained to you?

[Milbuck]

He did not play in the Greek League. How many times does this simple concept have to be explained to you?
You have not even once attempted to refute the fact that he was a Greek League All Star. I've given visual evidence to support the claim that he was a Greek League All Star. You've done nothing but spew irrelevant nonsense.

[Euroleague]

With Serbian NT in last Eurobasket Krstic showed why he's the best C in Europe and that it's Messinas fault for him playing worse than he can by putting him at pf half of the time he was on court.




I know Erceg isn't in top 10 but Savanovic in his peak probably was the best pf in Europe so you shouldn't compare them.

You know how I think about Messina (the most worshiped of all European coaches by NBA and US media)........and how unbelievably overrated he is. He can't even set up a basic offense even more it seems.

But Krstic has basic flaws. He has a great post game and is great at finishing pick and roll, but none of that is worth anything unless the whole team and game revolves around him.

And he still won't play defense and he still wants to shrink for some reason at big games and moments and still for some reason lets guys take rebounds away from him.

He's soft. Nothing close to as bad as like Mirotic or anything. But he's still soft.

And regardless of Messina, not every coach wants to set the whole entire team to revolve around solely making everything about setting a low or high post or a pick and roll or pick and pop for Krstic.

And if they don't' he just disappears. "Best center in Europe" needs to do a hell of more than that and never ever does.

And we have seen what happens when they set the whole team around him. They tried it over and over and over and they never won anything. That's the point, that they want to win, and he's not good enough to get them to win anything when they set the team around him.

He's not the best center in Europe. Sorry.

He needs to find a away to help a team even if the team is just using him to rebound, block the paint and set picks and screens like Bourousis did in Real...Krstic can't do that.

He needs to find a way to be effective without having the whole offense set to him, like Tomic does in Barca..Krstic can't do that.

And he's not that type of center like that smaller athletic ones, so he has to mix his game up and diversify like Tomic and Bourousis do.

So far, he's never shown anything that he can. The argument that if they set the whole team around him, give him the right coach, the right pick and roll guard, etc. that he is the best, well he has never won anything doing that. That's why they don't do that. Because it does not work.

It's the same reason Bourousis and Tomic don't get that treatment with their teams. You think any team can stop Tomic or Bourousis if the team is built for them? No chance in hell.

There is a reason why their teams don't do it though. Modern basketball is not for these kinds of centers man. It does not work that way now. Especially if they have the soft gene like Krstic does, he just gets soft in the bigger moments or if teams really rough him up.

Granted, the way Messina uses everyone is mostly BS. Just let Weems shoot all day, etc. But you are making it sound like Krstic can just do whatever he wants and it's all Messina and that is some serious bullshit.

In all honestly, Krstic was much better in the NBA and never should have left the NBA. The NBA is still using a lot of big and slow kind of guys that really can't do anything at center and they are just a huge body to take up space.

Krstic can do great against guys like that. It's also why he can get more chances in national team games because national teams opponents might tend to have such guys like that.

In Euroleague he's becoming outdated and does not fit to the game anymore. Becuse the centers are becoming so much more fast, quick, athletic, physical and because he can't match with those guys.

And because as I am saying, he does not really for example take a role or play style like Bourousis would do in Real. Krstic really should have just stayed in the NBA where the centers are so much slower and they are just there to take up space more than anything.

He's not able to deal with the super athletic freaks that are becoming the normal types of centers now in Euroleague.

[Euroleague]

Oleson is great shooter who can also drive to the basket, great defender and he doesn't need to ball in his hands very much so why shouldn't he be good enough for top 10. You ask me did I watch EL this season and then say how Oleson is closer to top 50 than top 10 players in EL, Oleson who while Navarro wasn't healthy was leader of one of the best teams in Europe.

Why do you hate Papanikolaou so much ??? He is maybe the best role player in Europe and just like against CSKA in finals he can decide the game without being under the spotlite.

You are answering your own question. They are role players. Role players are not top 10 players in a league.

[Euroleague]

:roll: :roll: :roll:

A guy who's a "very, very good scorer" in the Euroleague is a career 6 ppg player on 43 percent shooting in the NBA.

Just another illustration of the massive disparity of talent between the two.

You are a moron. Arroyo can score anywhere in league any time he wants to. if you don't know that, you lack basic basketball knowledge of NBA players from the last 10 years.

So you just show you don't even have a genera NBA knowledge.

Like I said, he has a huge ego that is why he does not get playing time or the ball in his hands in the NBA.

That is why in Europe, he does not get to play in serious teams, and only in teams that are jokes like Besiktas (like top 300 team in Europe MAYBE) or Galatasaray, which is basically equivalent to something like Gilbert Arenas playing on the Wizards...........

And why when he was on Baskonia, which at the time was a serious club, or Maccabu, they could not wait to get rid of him, and Baskonia actually cut him. Maccabi wanted to cut him, but they couldn't afford to pay his big salary and not have a player and sign another player at the time.

Point being, looking at stats and making stupid comments like that just shows you are a troll. He can straight out score like crazy against anyone anywhere any time. But he has the same mental disease guys like Iverson and Marbury had and it ruined his career. Plus he was Puerto Rican so of course none of that stuff was going to be allowed in the NBA by him like it was with those other guys.

But saying Arroyo can't score just shows you never watched NBA.

[Smook A.]

Every main rotation player on any decent Euroleague team can be a rotation player in the NBA. It's NBA only fans that are delusional and don't realize that.

Being top 50 in the Euroleague is basically the same thing as being top 50 in the NBA pretty much.
You need help.

[LoneyROY7]

You are a moron. Arroyo can score anywhere in league any time he wants to. if you don't know that, you lack basic basketball knowledge of NBA players from the last 10 years.

So you just show you don't even have a genera NBA knowledge.

All you can do is throw meaningless insults b/c the facts speak for themselves.

6 ppg on 43 percent shooting in 569 career NBA games.

If he could have scored "anywhere" and "any time" he wanted to, he would have. But he couldn't, b/c the talent level around him in the NBA didn't allow him that opportunity. Now in the Euroleague that's clearly not the case.

Scrub in the NBA, thriving in the Euroleague. Same sh*t, different toilet.

[Euroleague]

All you can do is throw meaningless insults b/c the facts speak for themselves.

6 ppg on 43 percent shooting in 569 career NBA games.

If he could have scored "anywhere" and "any time" he wanted to, he would have. But he couldn't, b/c the talent level around him in the NBA didn't allow him that opportunity. Now in the Euroleague that's clearly not the case.

Scrub in the NBA, thriving in the Euroleague. Same sh*t, different toilet.

That's funny, because every year multiple guys that were somewhere between the 500-1,000 best player in Europe go to the NBA and become rotation players.

Including multiple guys that spent many years of their careers in Europe trying to make a roster in the Euroleague and couldn't do it.

This will be confirmed by every single Euroleague fan in this thread. So since you had to go full retard, now you can be treated like one.


You are nuts.


FACT

[Milbuck]

Scrub in the NBA, thriving in the Euroleague. Same sh*t, different toilet.
/thread :applause:

[Euroleague]

You need help.

I just looked at the Rockets roster......

The Rockets would be lucky as hell to even make the Top 16 stage in Euroleague.

And you are laughing and making jokes....the Rockets would pretty much be a joke in the Euroleague with that roster.

[LoneyROY7]

That's funny, because every year multiple guys that were somewhere between the 500-1,000 best player in Europe go to the NBA and become rotation players.

FACT

You are nuts.

Hmmm, well I must I have missed that time a scrub from the Euroleague came over to the NBA and became an MVP...

Oh, you know what? I think it's the other way around. That's right, it was Sergio Rodigruez, a scrub/non-rotational player in the NBA who went over to the Euroleague and won their MVP last year.

Now, show me a comparable example of a Euroleague player doing so in the NBA. I'll wait.

[Milbuck]

I just looked at the Rockets roster......

The Rockets would be lucky as hell to even make the Top 16 stage in Euroleague.

And you are laughing and making jokes....the Rockets would pretty much be a joke in the Euroleague with that roster.
The Rockets would slaughter Euroleague teams by 40-50 points every night. James Harden would look like prime Moncrief on defense.

[Euroleague]

/thread :applause:

He was not a scrub in the NBA, and he's not thriving in Euroleague.

You are trolling, like you do in every single post.

And Giannis was not good enough to even make a Greek League roster, and still made an NBA rotation the next season.

That's how "superior the NBA is".

The league Giannis was playing (Greek 2nd division).....none of the teams could win a single game in Euroleague.

Yep, that's "vastly superior NBA".

[Euroleague]

Hmmm, well I must I have missed that time a scrub from the Euroleague came over to the NBA and became an MVP...

Oh, you know what? I think it's the other way around. That's right, it was Sergio Rodigruez, a scrub/non-rotational player in the NBA who went over to the Euroleague and won their MVP last year.

Now, show me a comparable example of a Euroleague player doing so in the NBA. I'll wait.

That's funny because it never happened a-hole. Rodriguez did not "go to the Euroleague and win the MVP".

That was YEARS AGO.

If you are going to claim that, then I can say, "Drik left from Germany and went to USA and won the NBA MVP".

It's just as "true" as the BULLSHIT you are saying. In other words, it's NOT true, because what you are saying is NOT true.


Either that, or are you going to pretend that Euro scrubs like Dirk and Parker didn't get MVPs and Finals MVPs in NBA?

Newsflash genius, they were Euro scrubs. If you are calling Sergio an NBA scrub, then they were colossal scrubs in Europe of epic proportions.

But of course you are just making up whatever bullshit that comes to your mind...

[Smook A.]

I just looked at the Rockets roster......

The Rockets would be lucky as hell to even make the Top 16 stage in Euroleague.

And you are laughing and making jokes....the Rockets would pretty much be a joke in the Euroleague with that roster.
Any NBA team would be elite in the Euroleague, bud. Its BY FAR the best and most competitive basketball league in the entire world. No league comes close. A top player in the Euroleague is a role player in the NBA.

[LoneyROY7]

That's funny because it never happened a-hole. Rodriguez did not "go to the Euroleague and win the MVP".

That was YEARS AGO.

If you are going to claim that, then I can say, "Drik left from Germany and went to USA and won the NBA MVP".

It's just as "true" as the BULLSHIT you are saying. In other words, it's NOT true, because what you are saying is NOT true.

Dirk did leave Germany, go to the USA, and ultimately win the NBA MVP. All of that is true. He's one of the greatest European players of all-time.

Just like how Sergio was the scrub/non-rotational player in the NBA, went over to the Euroleague and would go on to win the MVP last year.

All true.

[Euroleague]

The Rockets would slaughter Euroleague teams by 40-50 points every night. James Harden would look like prime Moncrief on defense.

Their roster is terrible for Euroleague standards. Absolutely awful.

They would struggle like hell and need luck and an easy draw just to make it out of the group stage and into the Top 16.

If they got the easy group and got really lucky and made the playoffs, which would be about 1/4 chance (so very unlikely that could even happen) they would get crushed by any decent Euroleague team 3-0 or 3-1 in the playoffs.

[Euroleague]

Any NBA team would be elite in the Euroleague, bud. Its BY FAR the best and most competitive basketball league in the entire world. No league comes close. A top player in the Euroleague is a role player in the NBA.

The level of psychosis is strong in this one.


Jeff Adrien PF 6-7 245

Trevor Ariza SG 6-8 220

Patrick Beverley 6-1 185

Isaiah Canaan PG 6-0 188

Clint Capela C 6-10 245

Robert Covington 6-9 215

Troy Daniels 6-4 204

Joey Dorsey PF 6-9 260

Francisco Garcia SG 6-7 195

Alonzo Gee SF 6-6 225

Jordan Hamilton 6-7 220

James Harden 6-5 220

Scotty Hopson 24 6-7 204

Dwight Howard 6-11 265

Nick Johnson SG 6-3 200

Terrence Jones PF 6-9 252

Donatas Motiejunas PF 23 7-0 222

Josh Powell PF 6-9 240

Ish Smith PG 6-0 175

[Milbuck]

He was not a scrub in the NBA, and he's not thriving in Euroleague.

You are trolling, like you do in every single post.

And Giannis was not good enough to even make a Greek League roster, and still made an NBA rotation the next season.

That's how "superior the NBA is".

The league Giannis was playing (Greek 2nd division).....none of the teams could win a single game in Euroleague.

Yep, that's "vastly superior NBA".
Let's see here..he averaged 6ppg on 7 different teams in 9 seasons. He's a scrub in the NBA.

Now his achievements in Euroleague:
- Centrobasket MVP
- BSL Final MVP/champion
- FIBA All-Tournament Team
- Turkish Cup Champion
- Eurochallenge Champion
- 5 time BSN Champion
- BSN Finals MVP

He had one of the most illustrious Euroleague careers ever.

And he was a SCRUB in the NBA.

[Euroleague]

Let's see here..he averaged 6ppg on 7 different teams in 9 seasons. He's a scrub in the NBA.

Now his achievements in Euroleague:
- Centrobasket MVP ---> Central America
- BSL Final MVP/champion ---> Puerto Rico
- FIBA All-Tournament Team ----> Latin America
- Turkish Cup Champion ----> Turkish League (NOTHING to do with Euroleague, not even the same league or competition)
- Eurochallenge Champion ---> 3rd tier European league (NOTHING to do with Euroleague, not even the same league or competition)
- 5 time BSN Champion ---> Puerto Rico
- BSN Finals MVP ---> Puerto Rico

He had one of the most illustrious Euroleague careers ever.

And he was a SCRUB in the NBA.

:lol :oldlol: :roll:

:facepalm :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

:biggums: :biggums: :biggums:


STOP SMOKING CRACK

And you don't even know what a "scrub" is either...proving you are not even a real NBA.


Wow, this guy might really be dumber even than gabepizza.

AMAZING, Arroyo was having an incredible "Euroleague" career, and not just while playing in different leagues in Europe that were not even the same league he was supposedly playing in, just like Giannis was also somehow supposedly able to do, and supposedly also being the "best in the Euroleague", despite not actually playing in that league.....since neither one of them actually were playing in the Euroleague...

but Arroyo took it even one step further, as he was having an incredible "Euroleague" career, even when he was actually playing in Latin America.


http://interculturalmeanderings.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/the-world-according-to-america-2.png

[PacerRaptor]

Not counting NBA-bound players. Serious thread please.
Who cares

[Milbuck]

:lol :oldlol: :roll:

:facepalm :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

:biggums: :biggums: :biggums:


STOP SMOKING CRACK

And you don't even know what a "scrub" is either...proving you are not even a real NBA.


Wow, this guy might really be dumber even than gabepizza.

AMAZING, Arroyo was having an incredible "Euroleague" career, and not just while playing in different leagues in Europe that were not even the same league he was supposedly playing in, just like Giannis was also somehow supposedly able to do, and supposedly also being the "best in the Euroleague", despite not actually playing in that league.....since neither one of them actually were playing in the Euroleague...

but Arroyo took it even one step further, as he was having an incredible "Euroleague" career, even when he was actually playing in Latin America.


http://interculturalmeanderings.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/the-world-according-to-america-2.png
Those were all EUROLEAGUE accolades I mentioned for Arroyo. All of those various leagues he played in were extensions of the Euroleague's international division. Believe it or not, other places in the world have amateur basketball players as well, Europe is not the dominant presence in amateur basketball.

Similar to how the NBA has been considering a European division..the Euroleague has South American and Asian divisions, which Arroyo has played and dominated in for years.

Arroyo is a Euroleague icon, and you have yet to provide legitimate evidence to dispute that. He was also a total scrub in the NBA playing for essentially a different team every year.

[LoneyROY7]

Those were all EUROLEAGUE accolades I mentioned for Arroyo. All of those various leagues he played in were extensions of the Euroleague's international division. Believe it or not, other places in the world have amateur basketball players as well, Europe is not the dominant presence in amateur basketball.

Similar to how the NBA has been considering a European division..the Euroleague has South American and Asian divisions, which Arroyo has played and dominated in for years.

Arroyo is a Euroleague icon, and you have yet to provide legitimate evidence to dispute that. He was also a total scrub in the NBA playing for essentially a different team every year.

Slayed.

[mattvNJ]

Those were all EUROLEAGUE accolades I mentioned for Arroyo. All of those various leagues he played in were extensions of the Euroleague's international division. Believe it or not, other places in the world have amateur basketball players as well, Europe is not the dominant presence in amateur basketball.

Similar to how the NBA has been considering a European division..the Euroleague has South American and Asian divisions, which Arroyo has played and dominated in for years.

Arroyo is a Euroleague icon, and you have yet to provide legitimate evidence to dispute that. He was also a total scrub in the NBA playing for essentially a different team every year.


:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: game over, jeff has to pay trolls like Euroleague to come on these sites. Literally no one can believe some of the shit he says.

[Maga_1]

People have too much time in their hands to argue using trolling facts and writing essays to Euroleague. Really :oldlol:

[dubeta]

does it matter? the top 10 players at my local YMCA is better than those scrubs

[Oly BC]

The insecurity is getting really strong here, NBA stans are shook.



Any NBA team would be elite in the Euroleague, bud. Its BY FAR the best and most competitive basketball league in the entire world. No league comes close. A top player in the Euroleague is a role player in the NBA.
:roll: :roll: :roll:

When will you poor souls understand that in a great team everyone is a roleplayer? That if someone is averaging 18-22 shots then that's a definite sign that we're talking about an awful team?
How many titles need the veteran spurs win, how much need they embarrass all the superstars that play 40+minutes, score 30+ points and lose badly?:lol

There are leaders in a team. There are better players in a team. There are no superstars in any team worth talking about. :confusedshrug:

[Chicago Brawls]

Sergio Rodr

[duskovujosevic]

Rodriguez seems to be the best player in Europe right now.

[Milbuck]

The insecurity is getting really strong here, NBA stans are shook.



:roll: :roll: :roll:

When will you poor souls understand that in a great team everyone is a roleplayer? That if someone is averaging 18-22 shots then that's a definite sign that we're talking about an awful team?
How many titles need the veteran spurs win, how much need they embarrass all the superstars that play 40+minutes, score 30+ points and lose badly?:lol

There are leaders in a team. There are better players in a team. There are no superstars in any team worth talking about. :confusedshrug:
You understand that all 5 NBA championship runs before the Spurs just won it have had stars taking 18+ shots, right? You're full of shit as always.

[tragicbronson]

How do Euroleague haters explain this?

Brandon Jennings

http://i.imgur.com/IKJ3Ula.jpg

Ty Lawson

http://i.imgur.com/2P6LZyX.jpg

Allen Iverson

http://i.imgur.com/PcSnKy8.jpg


According to you scrubs from NBA are best players in Europe so how comes that these just few examples of NBA stars were actually worse than they were in the NBA?

[Milbuck]

How do Euroleague haters explain this?

Brandon Jennings

http://i.imgur.com/IKJ3Ula.jpg

Ty Lawson

http://i.imgur.com/2P6LZyX.jpg

Allen Iverson

http://i.imgur.com/PcSnKy8.jpg


According to you scrubs from NBA are best players in Europe so how comes that these just few examples of NBA stars were actually worse than they were in the NBA?
:oldlol: Really? 18-19 year old Brandon Jennings, Ty Lawson, and grandpa Iverson are stars?

And in any case, even if all those players were stars, none of that is as embarrassing as the "Euroleague GOAT" putting up 2.7ppg on 32% shooting in the NBA. Not even close.

[tragicbronson]

:oldlol: Really? 18-19 year old Brandon Jennings, Ty Lawson, and grandpa Iverson are stars?

And in any case, even if all those players were stars, none of that is as embarrassing as the "Euroleague GOAT" putting up 2.7ppg on 32% shooting in the NBA. Not even close.

Stars or not, even if i'd say Ty Lawson is surely a star but you claim that the worst player in the NBA could be productive in Euroleague.

Spanoulis was bad but it shows that as there are players who are great in Europe basketball and can't translate that success in the NBA that there can be also other way around. There are players who fit NBA more and i think Jennings could never be as good in Europe as he is in the NBA but on the other hand there are players like Bodiroga, Tomic etc who in my opinion couldn't translate their game into the NBA.

I think it's clear that NBA is where the best basketball in the world is played i am not delusional as Euroleague poster but i think you and other americans or people who hate Euroleague should respect it more.

[Euroleague]

The insecurity is getting really strong here, NBA stans are shook.



:roll: :roll: :roll:

When will you poor souls understand that in a great team everyone is a roleplayer? That if someone is averaging 18-22 shots then that's a definite sign that we're talking about an awful team?
How many titles need the veteran spurs win, how much need they embarrass all the superstars that play 40+minutes, score 30+ points and lose badly?:lol

There are leaders in a team. There are better players in a team. There are no superstars in any team worth talking about. :confusedshrug:

Jeff Adrien PF 6-7 245

Trevor Ariza SG 6-8 220

Patrick Beverley 6-1 185

Isaiah Canaan PG 6-0 188

Clint Capela C 6-10 245

Robert Covington 6-9 215

Troy Daniels 6-4 204

Joey Dorsey PF 6-9 260

Francisco Garcia SG 6-7 195

Alonzo Gee SF 6-6 225

Jordan Hamilton 6-7 220

James Harden 6-5 220

Scotty Hopson 24 6-7 204

Dwight Howard 6-11 265

Nick Johnson SG 6-3 200

Terrence Jones PF 6-9 252

Donatas Motiejunas PF 23 7-0 222

Josh Powell PF 6-9 240

Ish Smith PG 6-0 175


That's the Houston Rockets' (the team Smook A. is a fan of) current roster...

3/4 of the players on that team are at the standard of the Eurocup (the league level below the Euroleague).

And this clown is talking about how ANY team in the NBA would go through Euroleague without losing a game, and he talks in other threads in the forum about how the Rockets should easily make the playoffs in the Western Conference playoffs.....

:biggums: :biggums: :biggums:

These guys REALLY are this delusional.

[Euroleague]

Stars or not, even if i'd say Ty Lawson is surely a star but you claim that the worst player in the NBA could be productive in Euroleague.

Spanoulis was bad but it shows that as there are players who are great in Europe basketball and can't translate that success in the NBA that there can be also other way around. There are players who fit NBA more and i think Jennings could never be as good in Europe as he is in the NBA but on the other hand there are players like Bodiroga, Tomic etc who in my opinion couldn't translate their game into the NBA.

I think it's clear that NBA is where the best basketball in the world is played i am not delusional as Euroleague poster but i think you and other americans or people who hate Euroleague should respect it more.

And remember Spanoulis was not bad in the NBA. That's a myth created by NBA only fans. Jeff Van Gundy just refused to play him because he hates Euroleague players.

He did the same things to guys like Mirsad Turkcan, Fabricio Oberto, Fredrick Weiss, etc. and on and on, there are numerous examples, backed up by general managers, other coaches, media, and other players collaborating it and the sources are proven and well documented that he purposely tried to destroy the career of any guy that came from the Euroleague.

NBA only fans all know this and still lie about it and use the example of Spanoulis because it fits their bullshit nonsense about "NBA is a billion times better than Euroleague" fantasies.

[Oly BC]

You understand that all 5 NBA championship runs before the Spurs just won it have had stars taking 18+ shots, right? You're full of shit as always.
And all it took was one team filled with veterans playing some real basketball to destroy those teams.
After all the spurs didn't always have this exact style, they were much more Duncan-centered before. This was their first year with no player averaging more than 30 minutes. Essentially they stumbled into perfection but still, some credit to Pop for recognizing it.


If the spurs stop playing like that and if no other team learns how to, then I'm sure some "superstar" based team will win the god-awful league. But a team playing real basketball would still annihilate them all. It's just that in this scenario the NBA is left with no decent teams instead of having just one.

[Oly BC]

Jeff Adrien PF 6-7 245

Trevor Ariza SG 6-8 220

Patrick Beverley 6-1 185

Isaiah Canaan PG 6-0 188

Clint Capela C 6-10 245

Robert Covington 6-9 215

Troy Daniels 6-4 204

Joey Dorsey PF 6-9 260

Francisco Garcia SG 6-7 195

Alonzo Gee SF 6-6 225

Jordan Hamilton 6-7 220

James Harden 6-5 220

Scotty Hopson 24 6-7 204

Dwight Howard 6-11 265

Nick Johnson SG 6-3 200

Terrence Jones PF 6-9 252

Donatas Motiejunas PF 23 7-0 222

Josh Powell PF 6-9 240

Ish Smith PG 6-0 175


That's the Houston Rockets' (the team Smook A. is a fan of) current roster...

3/4 of the players on that team are at the standard of the Eurocup (the league level below the Euroleague).

And this clown is talking about how ANY team in the NBA would go through Euroleague without losing a game, and he talks in other threads in the forum about how the Rockets should easily make the playoffs in the Western Conference playoffs.....

:biggums: :biggums: :biggums:

These guys REALLY are this delusional.
3 of those players were released by Olympiacos and found solace in the rockets who are even considered a somewhat decent team?:lol
And who is the star? Harden, who makes Spanoulis look like Gary Payton?:bowdown:

But then again Greece could send a 2nd division player to become the franchise icon at the Bucks.:roll: :roll: :roll:
Really, it's kinda impolite to laugh at the NBA's misfortunes but these stans here make it so sweet.

[qrich]

How do Euroleague haters explain this?

Brandon Jennings

http://i.imgur.com/IKJ3Ula.jpg

Ty Lawson

http://i.imgur.com/2P6LZyX.jpg

Allen Iverson

http://i.imgur.com/PcSnKy8.jpg


According to you scrubs from NBA are best players in Europe so how comes that these just few examples of NBA stars were actually worse than they were in the NBA?

Jennings was what, 18? Immature, and in a new country without a support system to boot.

Iverson was what, 37 years old? Really?

Lawson struggled a bit, but give him 10 more minutes a night with more than 7 games, and his numbers would also improve. You have to give him a bit more than that to get used to the transition of the Euro rules. I mean, guys like Span, JCN, Serg Rod, & Rudy had more than 7 games to make an impact, and none really did.

Different game, but odds of a NBA scrub thriving in European leagues is exponentially greater than the other way around. I mean, Mike Taylor was damn good in Greece, can't get more than a D-League shot. Acie Law? Stephen Lasme? DJ Hackett? Sonny Weems? Bo? All are solid to good to great players in Europe.


tl;dr: Two different game styles, but NBA is the best of the best when it comes to professional basketball.

[deja vu]

Put prime Jordan, LeBron or Kobe in the Euroleague and they would win the Euroleague MVP award every year.

[Oly BC]

Jennings was what, 18? Immature, and in a new country without a support system to boot.

Iverson was what, 37 years old? Really?

Lawson struggled a bit, but give him 10 more minutes a night with more than 7 games, and his numbers would also improve. You have to give him a bit more than that to get used to the transition of the Euro rules. I mean, guys like Span, JCN, Serg Rod, & Rudy had more than 7 games to make an impact, and none really did.

Different game, but odds of a NBA scrub thriving in European leagues is exponentially greater than the other way around. I mean, Mike Taylor was damn good in Greece, can't get more than a D-League shot. Acie Law? Stephen Lasme? DJ Hackett? Sonny Weems? Bo? All are solid to good to great players in Europe.


tl;dr: Two different game styles, but NBA is the best of the best when it comes to professional basketball.
Nope, Law's best season in a decent european team was 8.1ppg, 1.9 apg in 23 minutes and he only got that much time because Mantzaris had a knee injury. He was really focused in the final and made pretty much all of his dozen free throws but that was that. He averaged 3ppg in the regular season next year, got injured and was released this summer.
Lasme is used in a very specific role that you don't see in the NBA. He isn't even the among the best in that role, Hines, Dunston and Tyus are all better imo and it makes no sense to compare them with anything you've seen in the NBA. Hines for example played as a 6ft 6 center and he was a beast. What would you have to compare him with when in the tactically inferior NBA Perkins or Hibbert or other fossils get contracts?

All the players you listed are at best solid roleplayers and are great in a team that knows how to use them. Except Weems, he's a chucker in any league and gets more minutes in CSKA because they're perennial losers and had an awful coach in Messina. But still, he's the same player in both leagues.

Your idea of a great player -and not a scrub- is a player who averages 20 shots. In that regard there will never be a "great player" in euroleague and every european basketball fan can thank god for that.:cheers:

[qrich]

Nope, Law's best season in a decent european team was 8.1ppg, 1.9 apg in 23 minutes and he only got that much time because Mantzaris had a knee injury. He was really focused in the final and made pretty much all of his dozen free throws but that was that. He averaged 3ppg in the regular season next year, got injured and was released this summer.
Lasme is used in a very specific role that you don't see in the NBA. He isn't even the among the best in that role, Hines, Dunston and Tyus are all better imo and it makes no sense to compare them with anything you've seen in the NBA. Hines for example played as a 6ft 6 center and he was a beast. What would you have to compare him when in the tactically inferior NBA Perkins or Hibbert or other fossils get contracts?

All the players you listed are at best solid roleplayers and are great in a team that knows how to use them. Except Weems, he's a chucker in any league and gets more minutes in CSKA because they're perennial losers and had an awful coach in Messina.

Your idea of a great player -and not a scrub- is a player who averages 20 shots. In that regard there will never be a "great player" in euroleague and every european basketball fan can thank god for that.:cheers:

Law's best season in the Association was.....

Lasme is so inferior to those guys, yet, who was mentioned more in this thread? Chuck Hayes played center at 6'6, what exactly is your point again?

Bring up overpaid players as much as you want, but that has to do with the fact that most NBA teams are actually in the green when it comes to profits and don't avoid paying players like in some European nations, until they are sued. It'd be like me saying Gyasi Zardes is vastly superior to Nani considering what Zardes is making in the MLS and Nani is paid a big amount :rolleyes:

You don't know my idea of a great player kid, so don't even try to go there. The guys I view to be good to great, that most wouldn't, would feast in Europe. If Sofoklis is considered to be solid, imagine what Elton Brand would do and be considered, for example?

[East_Stone_Ya]

Sonny Weems should be in the TOP 10

[chips93]

Put prime Jordan, LeBron or Kobe in the Euroleague and they would win the Euroleague MVP award every year.

as they do in the nba

[Oly BC]

Bring up overpaid players as much as you want, but that has to do with the fact that most NBA teams are actually in the green when it comes to profits and don't avoid paying players like in some European nations, until they are sued. It'd be like me saying Gyasi Zardes is vastly superior to Nani considering what Zardes is making in the MLS and Nani is paid a big amount :rolleyes:

Oh, NBA is the best brand for sure, no one questioning that.


Of course basketball in Europe has to compete against the undeniable king of sports, football, for attention. A sport so great that the US decided to ignore so they can easily disregard the embarassment of constantly losing. Without football, it's much easier for secondary sports like basketball to get big tv contracts and have profitable teams.
With football? Good luck.

[qrich]

Oh, NBA is the best brand for sure, no one questioning that.


Of course basketball in Europe has to compete against the undeniable king of sports, football, for attention. A sport so great that the US decided to ignore so they can easily disregard the embarassment of constantly losing. Without football, it's much easier for secondary sports like basketball to get big tv contracts and have profitable teams.
With football? Good luck.

And basketball in the States doesn't compete with baseball and football? :facepalm

Of course an entire continent has decided to ignore the game of basketball so they can easily disregard atrocious losses to Nigeria and constant rapings done by the States :rolleyes:

The NBA is more than just the best brand, it is the international basketball communities ELITE league, Top Dog, Alpha, Leaders, etc.

[Oly BC]

Law's best season in the Association was.....

Lasme is so inferior to those guys, yet, who was mentioned more in this thread? Chuck Hayes played center at 6'6, what exactly is your point again?

You don't know my idea of a great player kid, so don't even try to go there. The guys I view to be good to great, that most wouldn't, would feast in Europe. If Sofoklis is considered to be solid, imagine what Elton Brand would do and be considered, for example?
Law's best season in the NBA was 6.2ppg, 1.4 apg in 13 minutes. That's better in a per minute basis. Of course, I know better than to trust some ridiculous NBA coach to get the best out of his players and use proper rotations.

Hayes, according to a quick search, played center for a while due to injury trouble. The people I've mentioned play as undersized, mobile centers with a very specific role in a major tactical breakthrough that happened a few years ago and forced almost every team to invest in one and adjust their game accordingly. My point is that you, having never seen anything resembling a tactical breakthrough since the... triangles :lol , can't appreciate that type of player.

And lastly, a worse Sofo? I mean Sofo crashed the nba stars when he met them on the court. Did Brand even make the US nt? No idea.

[Oly BC]

And basketball in the States doesn't compete with baseball and football? :facepalm

Basketball is the only secondary sport in the US. There are no primary sports in the US.
Baseball and "football" are local oddities at best.
Note that I characterize sports as primary, secondary and oddities based on their global appeal.

If the NBA had any real quality it should have 200 million people watching every playoff game in the US. That it's similar in popularity to sports :oldlol: like baseball :oldlol: and the nfl :oldlol: says more about it than I could ever hope.
Euroleague on the other hand has to compete against the finest sport ever invented, football, and against the best club tournament that has ever existed, the Uefa Champions League. It's no wonder that against that kind of competition, tv contracts and advertising revenue are reduced.

[qrich]

Law's best season in the NBA was 6.2ppg, 1.4 apg in 13 minutes. That's better in a per minute basis. Of course, I know better than to trust some ridiculous NBA coach to get the best out of his players and use proper rotations.

Hayes, according to a quick search, played center for a while due to injury trouble. The people I've mentioned play as undersized, mobile centers with a very specific role in a major tactical breakthrough that happened a few years ago and forced almost every team to invest in one and adjust their game accordingly. My point is that you, having never seen anything resembling a tactical breakthrough since the... triangles :lol , can't appreciate that type of player.

And lastly, a worse Sofo? I mean Sofo crashed the nba stars when he met them on the court. Did Brand even make the US nt? No idea.

All the while, no one would even consider putting Law IV on a list of the top 20 backup point guards. Yet, I've seen him mentioned moreso now that he is in Europe.

Hayes got his opportunity to start due to injuries, but has always been a center and guarded the best post players on the other team.

Did you really just say Sofo is superior to Elton Brand? Really? Because Sofo "crashed NBA stars", but couldn't spend more than 6 minutes on the court in the amatuerish Summer League competition? :facepalm

You lose all credibility with that statement, on the level of EuroLeague saying Sofo is 10x the player Kaman/Camby can ever dream of being.


Basketball is the only secondary sport in the US. There are no primary sports in the US.
Baseball and "football" are local oddities at best.

If the NBA had any real quality it should have 200 million people watching every playoff game in the US. That it's similar in popularity to sports :oldlol: like baseball :oldlol: and the nfl :oldlol: says more about it than I could ever hope.
Euroleague on the other hand has to compete against the finest sport ever invented, football, and against the best club tournament that has ever existed, the Uefa Champions League. It's no wonder that against that kind of competition, tv contracts and advertising revenue are reduced.

No primary sports in the US? Are you serious?

The NFL gets coverage around the year, even when nothing is going on. The Superbowl is the most watched single game on this planet. Don't even get me started with NCAA Football. Baseball even gets round the clock coverage.

The NBA also isn't corrupted like a decent amount of European sides that refuse to pay players as well.

[Andrew Wiggins]

euroleague jumping on his oly_bc account to spout conspiracy theories and anti-us agenda :lol

[Oly BC]

Did you really just say Sofo is superior to Elton Brand? Really? Because Sofo "crashed NBA stars", but couldn't spend more than 6 minutes on the court in the amatuerish Summer League competition? :facepalm
You are of course forgetting something. Sofo did crush -utterly destroyed I'd say- the nba stars but did so with an excellent backcourt of Spanoulis, Papaloukas, Diamantidis. Who knows what score-first, pass-never, iso all the way, scrubs he had to play with in the summer league.
Maybe Brand would also be good if he ever got to play with guards as good as those Greece had, you're right.





No primary sports in the US? Are you serious?

The NFL gets coverage around the year, even when nothing is going on. The Superbowl is the most watched single game on this planet. Don't even get me started with NCAA Football. Baseball even gets round the clock coverage.

The NBA also isn't corrupted like a decent amount of European sides that refuse to pay players as well.
The NFL is a shit sport that "gets coverage" because the NBA as a league is also quite shitty.

I imagine if Europe didn't have the divine sport that is football, euroleague would crush any competition for that ad revenue because let's be honest: sports past football and basketball are quite bad.

I mean, no football? NBA is really playing the winning-money game in super easy mode and isn't doing all that well when you think of it.

[Oly BC]

euroleague jumping on his oly_bc account to spout conspiracy theories and anti-us agenda :lol
Truth hurts. :banana:

[Andrew Wiggins]

Truth hurts. :banana:

:roll:

why argue stuff you don't genuinely believe in :biggums:

sounds like an undiagnosed case of hpd

[Oly BC]

Everything I said is true. You'd have to be blind or mad to disagree.

[B-hoop]

No primary sports in the US? Are you serious?

The NFL gets coverage around the year, even when nothing is going on. The Superbowl is the most watched single game on this planet.

Not that I think Oly is right, but bolded isn't true.

Also of course Euroleague has a lot more scrubs than the NBA, doesn't mean that the top 10 in Euroleague are all scrubs though, you can find some talent like the Spurs found Ginobili and Parker or the Mavs found Dirk.

[RRR3]

And remember Spanoulis was not bad in the NBA. That's a myth created by NBA only fans. Jeff Van Gundy just refused to play him because he hates Euroleague players.

He did the same things to guys like Mirsad Turkcan, Fabricio Oberto, Fredrick Weiss, etc. and on and on, there are numerous examples, backed up by general managers, other coaches, media, and other players collaborating it and the sources are proven and well documented that he purposely tried to destroy the career of any guy that came from the Euroleague.

NBA only fans all know this and still lie about it and use the example of Spanoulis because it fits their bullshit nonsense about "NBA is a billion times better than Euroleague" fantasies.
2.7 PPG on 32% isn't bad? Please tell me what it is then.

[qrich]

You are of course forgetting something. Sofo did crush -utterly destroyed I'd say- the nba stars but did so with an excellent backcourt of Spanoulis, Papaloukas, Diamantidis. Who knows what score-first, pass-never, iso all the way, scrubs he had to play with in the summer league.
Maybe Brand would also be good if he ever got to play with guards as good as those Greece had, you're right.

So, what else has Sofo done in his career besides get cut from the Clippers summer league squad?

Oh, and give me Cassell over those three.



The NFL is a shit sport that "gets coverage" because the NBA as a league is also quite shitty.

I imagine if Europe didn't have the divine sport that is football, euroleague would crush any competition for that ad revenue because let's be honest: sports past football and basketball are quite bad.

I mean, no football? NBA is really playing the winning-money game in super easy mode and isn't doing all that well when you think of it.

Association football is quite a shitty sport that gets coverage because it is superior to the inferior Cricket :rolleyes:

[tragicbronson]

Jennings was what, 18? Immature, and in a new country without a support system to boot.

Iverson was what, 37 years old? Really?

Lawson struggled a bit, but give him 10 more minutes a night with more than 7 games, and his numbers would also improve. You have to give him a bit more than that to get used to the transition of the Euro rules. I mean, guys like Span, JCN, Serg Rod, & Rudy had more than 7 games to make an impact, and none really did.

Different game, but odds of a NBA scrub thriving in European leagues is exponentially greater than the other way around. I mean, Mike Taylor was damn good in Greece, can't get more than a D-League shot. Acie Law? Stephen Lasme? DJ Hackett? Sonny Weems? Bo? All are solid to good to great players in Europe.


tl;dr: Two different game styles, but NBA is the best of the best when it comes to professional basketball.

I agree in certain degree.

I don't know why you act like Jennings was 27 years old the year after he came from Europe where he struggled but scored 57 in his 7th NBA game. No one was talking about new environment.

I agreed and i think that NBA is clearly the best basketball league in the world but it's style is different compared to Euroleague and this makes you think that Euroleague is like a shelter for scrubs from USA. There are many differences so guys like Rubio who were 8/5 player in Europe become 11/8 player in NBA because it was clear that he doesn't fit that style as much as NBA. If you can't shoot you are going to have a hard time in Euroleague. Or there are people who claim that NCAA is better than Euroleague and that's some big time bullshit. Joey Dorsey was scrub in the NBA and he isn't better in Europe and so on.

[Rooster]

Not that I think Oly is right, but bolded isn't true.

Also of course Euroleague has a lot more scrubs than the NBA, doesn't mean that the top 10 in Euroleague are all scrubs though, you can find some talent like the Spurs found Ginobili and Parker or the Mavs found Dirk.

Sergio was the Euroleague MVP and he was a scrub.

[Rooster]

I agree in certain degree.

I don't know why you act like Jennings was 27 years old the year after he came from Europe where he struggled but scored 57 in his 7th NBA game. No one was talking about new environment.

I agreed and i think that NBA is clearly the best basketball league in the world but it's style is different compared to Euroleague and this makes you think that Euroleague is like a shelter for scrubs from USA. There are many differences so guys like Rubio who were 8/5 player in Europe become 11/8 player in NBA because it was clear that he doesn't fit that style as much as NBA. If you can't shoot you are going to have a hard time in Euroleague. Or there are people who claim that NCAA is better than Euroleague and that's some big time bullshit. Joey Dorsey was scrub in the NBA and he isn't better in Europe and so on.

Jennings just barely came out of high school. :facepalm :facepalm

[Oly BC]

So, what else has Sofo done in his career besides get cut from the Clippers summer league squad?

Oh, and give me Cassell over those three.




Association football is quite a shitty sport that gets coverage because it is superior to the inferior Cricket :rolleyes:
Sofo just won his first euroleague!:applause:


And the world laughs at you for that last thing you said. The world laughs and turns its head away.

[Oly BC]

I agree in certain degree.

I don't know why you act like Jennings was 27 years old the year after he came from Europe where he struggled but scored 57 in his 7th NBA game. No one was talking about new environment.

I agreed and i think that NBA is clearly the best basketball league in the world but it's style is different compared to Euroleague and this makes you think that Euroleague is like a shelter for scrubs from USA. There are many differences so guys like Rubio who were 8/5 player in Europe become 11/8 player in NBA because it was clear that he doesn't fit that style as much as NBA. If you can't shoot you are going to have a hard time in Euroleague. Or there are people who claim that NCAA is better than Euroleague and that's some big time bullshit. Joey Dorsey was scrub in the NBA and he isn't better in Europe and so on.
Ehm... a correction if you'll allow me.

Rubio was a 6.5/3.5 player in Europe in 10/11.
He was a 10.6/8.2 player in the NBA the exact next season.



:lol

[SOD 21]

To any Euro league experts out there...

Oklahoma City has two recent draft and stash prospects over in Europe and I can only tell so much about them from statistics and YouTube clips, Tibor Pleiss and Alex Abrines.

Pleiss has good length at 7'1" tall and has decent athleticism for a big man with good mobility. He has a decent jumpshot out to 15 to 18 feet and seems to be able to use either hand to finish around the basket. He averaged about 13 points, almost 7 rebounds and shot in the high 50% of the field last season. It seems like he would benefit from another 20 pounds of muscle to compete in the post in the NBA. There have been rumors that he will join Oklahoma City within the next year, probably after Kendrick Perkins' contract expires.

Alex Abrines is still very young at only 20 years old but has good size for an NBA guard at 6'6" inches tall. He reminds me of a young Rudy Fernandez, actually. He has a nice looking shooting stroke and averaged seven points per game last year on a good team off the bench. He clearly needs to get stronger and it would appear that he is probably two or three years away from being able to contribute on an NBA level.

Anyone have thoughts on these two players and what their potential/impact could be in the NBA? But those are my takeaways just from statistics and YouTube clips.

[deja vu]

as they do in the nba
I said every year. These guys don't win MVP every year in the NBA, because of competition.

[deja vu]

The Superbowl is the most watched single game in the USA
Fixed. :lol

[Oly BC]

To any Euro league experts out there...

Oklahoma City has two recent draft and stash prospects over in Europe and I can only tell so much about them from statistics and YouTube clips, Tibor Pleiss and Alex Abrines.

Pleiss has good length at 7'1" tall and has decent athleticism for a big man with good mobility. He has a decent jumpshot out to 15 to 18 feet and seems to be able to use either hand to finish around the basket. He averaged about 13 points, almost 7 rebounds and shot in the high 50% of the field last season. It seems like he would benefit from another 20 pounds of muscle to compete in the post in the NBA. There have been rumors that he will join Oklahoma City within the next year, probably after Kendrick Perkins' contract expires.

Alex Abrines is still very young at only 20 years old but has good size for an NBA guard at 6'6" inches tall. He reminds me of a young Rudy Fernandez, actually. He has a nice looking shooting stroke and averaged seven points per game last year on a good team off the bench. He clearly needs to get stronger and it would appear that he is probably two or three years away from being able to contribute on an NBA level.

Anyone have thoughts on these two players and what their potential/impact could be in the NBA? But those are my takeaways just from statistics and YouTube clips.
Pleiss seems like a player with potential but last year's laboral is a bad way to judge him. The team made many bad choices in roster building, had many injuries etc. The pick and roll between their guard Heurtel and Pleiss was basically their only consistent play. Both their stats are probably quite inflated as a result. But he's interesting though.


Abrines imo hasn't really shown much. He's used as a small forward in Barcelona, a third guard really, and at least offensively he seems limited in spot up shooting (and he's not even that good at it). Maybe someone following acb has a better opinion.

[SOD 21]

Pleiss seems like a player with potential but last year's laboral is a bad way to judge him. The team made many bad choices in roster building, had many injuries etc. The pick and roll between their guard Heurtel and Pleiss was basically their only consistent play. Both their stats are probably quite inflated as a result. But he's interesting though.


Abrines imo hasn't really shown much. He's used as a small forward in Barcelona, a third guard really, and at least offensively he seems limited in spot up shooting (and he's not even that good at it). Maybe someone following acb has a better opinion.

Thank you for your input.

I heard the team Pleiss plays for has turmoil and also experiencing serious financial troubles. You could be right about his production last season being inflated because his points per game more than doubled this last season from the year before.

Alex Abrines shot 46% from the field and 36% on three-point shots last season in about 17 minutes per game. He averaged seven points per game. Those aren't eye-popping numbers, by any means, but seem solid for the young player who is only 20 years old.

How effective do you believe Pleiss could be as a backup center playing 15-20 minutes within the next year or two?

[Oly BC]

Thank you for your input.

I heard that the team that Pleiss place for has had turmoil and also experiencing some serious financial troubles. You could be right about his production last season being inflated because his points per game more than doubled this last season from the year before.

Alex Abrines shot 46% from the field and 36% on three-point shots last season in about 17 minutes per game. The average seven points per game in that time. Those certainly aren't eye-popping numbers, by any means, but seem solid for the young player who is only 20 years old.

How effective do you believe Pleiss could be as a backup center playing 15-20 minutes within the next year or two?
I think he could complement Adams well, Adams being the brute force and him having more finesse. If he were to gain a lot of weight though, he would probably need to adjust his game as well and that doesn't always work.

[Fiba basketball]

To any Euro league experts out there...

Oklahoma City has two recent draft and stash prospects over in Europe and I can only tell so much about them from statistics and YouTube clips, Tibor Pleiss and Alex Abrines.

Pleiss has good length at 7'1" tall and has decent athleticism for a big man with good mobility. He has a decent jumpshot out to 15 to 18 feet and seems to be able to use either hand to finish around the basket. He averaged about 13 points, almost 7 rebounds and shot in the high 50% of the field last season. It seems like he would benefit from another 20 pounds of muscle to compete in the post in the NBA. There have been rumors that he will join Oklahoma City within the next year, probably after Kendrick Perkins' contract expires.

Alex Abrines is still very young at only 20 years old but has good size for an NBA guard at 6'6" inches tall. He reminds me of a young Rudy Fernandez, actually. He has a nice looking shooting stroke and averaged seven points per game last year on a good team off the bench. He clearly needs to get stronger and it would appear that he is probably two or three years away from being able to contribute on an NBA level.

Anyone have thoughts on these two players and what their potential/impact could be in the NBA? But those are my takeaways just from statistics and YouTube clips.

I watched many Barcelonas games in Endesa and even though in some of them Abrines wasn't that good he had some where he was amazing.

I remember that in game against Real week before EL F4 he scored 5 or 6 3s and had 20+ pts with very high FG% ( maybe 2 or 3 misses in the game ).
IMO he is more talented than people give him credit for because it's very hard for a young player to play in elite team like Barcelona and he is still very young.

His future mostly depends on his shooting, if he becomes consistant enough than he could be one of the best European players and I strongly belive it will happen.

I didn't watch Pleiss this season very much but I watched him before and I wasn't impressed. Since there aren't many good Cs in NBA maybe he could be good backup but it's hard to tell since he would probably need pass first pg and not Westbrook.

[SOD 21]

I watched many Barcelonas games in Endesa and even though in some of them Abrines wasn't that good he had some where he was amazing.

I remember that in game against Real week before EL F4 he scored 5 or 6 3s and had 20+ pts with very high FG% ( maybe 2 or 3 misses in the game ).
IMO he is more talented than people give him credit for because it's very hard for a young player to play in elite team like Barcelona and he is still very young.

His future mostly depends on his shooting, if he becomes consistant enough than he could be one of the best European players and I strongly belive it will happen.

I didn't watch Pleiss this season very much but I watched him before and I wasn't impressed. Since there aren't many good Cs in NBA maybe he could be good backup but it's hard to tell since he would probably need pass first pg and not Westbrook.

Thank you for your feedback.

The encouraging thing about Alex Abrines is that he is still very young but continues to improve each year when given additional playing time by shooting more efficiently and being more productive. It sounds like he is like a lot of young players that struggle with consistency. But he could be a good bench player and a good floor spacer next to KD and Russell Westbrook in the NBA in a couple of years. I don't see him being ready though for at least another two years, at a minimum.

Pleiss is hard to get a handle on because he didn't do anything his first couple of years playing professionally and was good for only five or six points per game before this last season. He suddenly averaged 13 points per game on a good shooting percentage now that he became more of a focal point of his teams offense. He does seem to have good hands in a pick and roll situation and could get some easy scoring opportunities by rolling to the basket. I suspect that he will be in Oklahoma City for the 2015-2016 season and playing back up to Steven Adams.

[Oly BC]

IMO he is more talented than people give him credit for because it's very hard for a young player to play in elite team like Barcelona and he is still very young.

Not always, I think it's part of Barcelona's business plan to ocasionally hype young, local players. They could definitely get someone better.

[Fiba basketball]

Not always, I think it's part of Barcelona's business plan to ocasionally hype young, local players. They could definitely get someone better.

You didn't understand. I was saying it's hard for a young player like him to find a good role on team like Barcelona. If he played on some othere team ,like for example Partizan, I'm sure he could play just as good as Bogdanovic did and would get EL rising star trophy.

[Euroleague]

3 of those players were released by Olympiacos and found solace in the rockets who are even considered a somewhat decent team?:lol
And who is the star? Harden, who makes Spanoulis look like Gary Payton?:bowdown:

But then again Greece could send a 2nd division player to become the franchise icon at the Bucks.:roll: :roll: :roll:
Really, it's kinda impolite to laugh at the NBA's misfortunes but these stans here make it so sweet.

And don't forget that the Rockets were literally begging Papanikolaou to come play for them, and he turned them down.

Like half their rotation would have been ex Olympiacos players, and this SAME clown Smook A. was saying here in dozens of posts things like, "not a single player on the back to back Euroleague champions Olympiacos could ever even make an NBA roster"...........

And the really pathetic thing is that Dorsey was cut by Olympiacos (he didn't even last a year there), and Josh Powell was probably the worst player they had in the last 10 years along with Beverley and Josh Childress.

And Beverley freaking STARTS for the Rockets, and unlike in Euroleague, where starters and bench is irrelevant, in NBA the starters are supposed to be the "best players on the team"..........

:lol :oldlol: :roll:

lol

Dorsey
Beverley
Powell

Begged and begged and begged Papanikolaou to come there and he would not....

The Rockets are like a AAA farm club of Olympiacos.

And these fools claim NBA is better?

:facepalm

[Euroleague]

Jennings was what, 18? Immature, and in a new country without a support system to boot.

Iverson was what, 37 years old? Really?

Lawson struggled a bit, but give him 10 more minutes a night with more than 7 games, and his numbers would also improve. You have to give him a bit more than that to get used to the transition of the Euro rules. I mean, guys like Span, JCN, Serg Rod, & Rudy had more than 7 games to make an impact, and none really did.

Different game, but odds of a NBA scrub thriving in European leagues is exponentially greater than the other way around. I mean, Mike Taylor was damn good in Greece, can't get more than a D-League shot. Acie Law? Stephen Lasme? DJ Hackett? Sonny Weems? Bo? All are solid to good to great players in Europe.


tl;dr: Two different game styles, but NBA is the best of the best when it comes to professional basketball.

Jennings was 19.

Iverson didn't play in Euroleague. He played in the second tier league.

Mike Taylor was not "damn good in Greece". He was an OK player on one of the worst teams there.

The level he was playing at wouldn't be good enough to make the rotation on teams like Panionios or Aris at that time.

You really need to stop smoking crack.

[Euroleague]

Law's best season in the Association was.....

Lasme is so inferior to those guys, yet, who was mentioned more in this thread? Chuck Hayes played center at 6'6, what exactly is your point again?

Bring up overpaid players as much as you want, but that has to do with the fact that most NBA teams are actually in the green when it comes to profits and don't avoid paying players like in some European nations, until they are sued. It'd be like me saying Gyasi Zardes is vastly superior to Nani considering what Zardes is making in the MLS and Nani is paid a big amount :rolleyes:

You don't know my idea of a great player kid, so don't even try to go there. The guys I view to be good to great, that most wouldn't, would feast in Europe. If Sofoklis is considered to be solid, imagine what Elton Brand would do and be considered, for example?

His point is you are a freaking moron and a TROLL. You have never seen a Euroleague game in your entire life and you make endless claims like you are an expert on it.

You list average players, above average players, or even outright scrubs (guys not even good enough to make Euroleague) as examples of guys that "do better in Euroleague than in NBA".

You are a clown and if it wasn't for the fact that 99% of the people in the forum have never seen a Euroleague game, everyone would know that.

[Euroleague]

All the while, no one would even consider putting Law IV on a list of the top 20 backup point guards. Yet, I've seen him mentioned moreso now that he is in Europe.

Hayes got his opportunity to start due to injuries, but has always been a center and guarded the best post players on the other team.

Did you really just say Sofo is superior to Elton Brand? Really? Because Sofo "crashed NBA stars", but couldn't spend more than 6 minutes on the court in the amatuerish Summer League competition? :facepalm

You lose all credibility with that statement, on the level of EuroLeague saying Sofo is 10x the player Kaman/Camby can ever dream of being.



No primary sports in the US? Are you serious?

The NFL gets coverage around the year, even when nothing is going on. The Superbowl is the most watched single game on this planet. Don't even get me started with NCAA Football. Baseball even gets round the clock coverage.

The NBA also isn't corrupted like a decent amount of European sides that refuse to pay players as well.

Law is so "great" in Euroleague that he has been cut by both his teams, Partizan and Olympiacos.

You are so delusional that it's truly to the point of being psychotic.

As to the Superbowl being the most watched game on the planet.....

:lol :oldlol: :roll: :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

The USA is not the "planet". Yet another ignoramus that thinks the USA is the whole "planet".

:biggums:

The level of ignorance with some of the fools is just incredible.

http://interculturalmeanderings.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/map-of-the-world-according-to-americans.jpg

[Euroleague]

So, what else has Sofo done in his career besides get cut from the Clippers summer league squad?

He wasn't cut from any summer league team you lying creep. He was offered a minimum NBA contract and he told that racist owner of your team to go burn in hell after how he treated him and his agent.

You must be a KKK member the way you make up lies and distort facts about things like that here.

You are a pretty sick guy to be honest about it.

[Euroleague]

I agree in certain degree.

I don't know why you act like Jennings was 27 years old the year after he came from Europe where he struggled but scored 57 in his 7th NBA game. No one was talking about new environment.

I agreed and i think that NBA is clearly the best basketball league in the world but it's style is different compared to Euroleague and this makes you think that Euroleague is like a shelter for scrubs from USA. There are many differences so guys like Rubio who were 8/5 player in Europe become 11/8 player in NBA because it was clear that he doesn't fit that style as much as NBA. If you can't shoot you are going to have a hard time in Euroleague. Or there are people who claim that NCAA is better than Euroleague and that's some big time bullshit. Joey Dorsey was scrub in the NBA and he isn't better in Europe and so on.

Rubio was more like a 6/3 player in Euroleague.

[Euroleague]

To any Euro league experts out there...

Oklahoma City has two recent draft and stash prospects over in Europe and I can only tell so much about them from statistics and YouTube clips, Tibor Pleiss and Alex Abrines.

Pleiss has good length at 7'1" tall and has decent athleticism for a big man with good mobility. He has a decent jumpshot out to 15 to 18 feet and seems to be able to use either hand to finish around the basket. He averaged about 13 points, almost 7 rebounds and shot in the high 50% of the field last season. It seems like he would benefit from another 20 pounds of muscle to compete in the post in the NBA. There have been rumors that he will join Oklahoma City within the next year, probably after Kendrick Perkins' contract expires.

Alex Abrines is still very young at only 20 years old but has good size for an NBA guard at 6'6" inches tall. He reminds me of a young Rudy Fernandez, actually. He has a nice looking shooting stroke and averaged seven points per game last year on a good team off the bench. He clearly needs to get stronger and it would appear that he is probably two or three years away from being able to contribute on an NBA level.

Anyone have thoughts on these two players and what their potential/impact could be in the NBA? But those are my takeaways just from statistics and YouTube clips.

Pleiss is way better than Perkins and also better than Adams. He's also already hugely overrated in US media and by NBA fans. This same US media obsession that any NBA draft pick that has not played in NBA must be "dominating Europe" bullshit....

And no, he does not need to put on 20 pounds to play in NBA. The guy is already freaking huge and he's bigger than the 7-1 he's listed at. He's better than what the Thunder have now for sure, but he's definitely overrated with all this "best center in Europe" bullshit from US media.

Abrines....nothing remotely similar to Rudy Fernandez. More US media and NBA hype bullshit.

So no, sorry, no similarity other than being white and Spanish.

He's a very, very talented player and he's got the ability to shoot the 3 and he's explosive athletically with his jumping ability, but he's miles away from being anything at the level of Rudy Fernandez.

He could play at the 2 or 3. He would be a definite better player though than Sefolosha that they have been using in that role in recent years. No doubt at all in my mind about that.

He's nowhere near as good as Rudy Fernandez.

[Euroleague]

Put prime Jordan, LeBron or Kobe in the Euroleague and they would win the Euroleague MVP award every year.

LeBron wouldn't because you can't have ANY slip ups in your team in the playoffs. That's how the award works. It's given between the semifinal and the final. Nothing like the NBA MVP.

So no, LeBron would not.

Kobe would not because the award is NOT a stats based award, and also it's NOT given to players that play out of the team concept. You can't chuck away and play out of the TEAM concept and win that award.

It's given based on the success of the TEAM, to the player that most exemplifies TEAM, not individual. So no, Kobe would not.

As for prime Jordan winning it "every year"......probably not. "Every year"....In a league that has an insanely hard Top 16 and playoffs, or that when he played had an 8 or 12 game season and had the single elimination in the last two games BEFORE the award...

The statistical chances of that would be practically ZERO.

I'm pretty sure Jordan never once went undefeated in an NBA playoffs.

[Euroleague]

Sergio was the Euroleague MVP and he was a scrub.

Parker was NBA Finals MVP after being a scrub in Europe...

Dirk was NBA MVP and NBA Finals MVP after being a scrub in Europe...

If you ever have an actual point, go ahead and feel free to make it.

[bukowski81]

Parker was NBA Finals MVP after being a scrub in Europe...

Dirk was NBA MVP and NBA Finals MVP after being a scrub in Europe...

If you ever have an actual point, go ahead and feel free to make it.

To be fair both were just kids when they played in Europe. Both joined the NBA at around 19 I think

[Euroleague]

Thank you for your input.

I heard the team Pleiss plays for has turmoil and also experiencing serious financial troubles. You could be right about his production last season being inflated because his points per game more than doubled this last season from the year before.

Alex Abrines shot 46% from the field and 36% on three-point shots last season in about 17 minutes per game. He averaged seven points per game. Those aren't eye-popping numbers, by any means, but seem solid for the young player who is only 20 years old.

How effective do you believe Pleiss could be as a backup center playing 15-20 minutes within the next year or two?

You heard wrong. It's typical US media bullshit. That team has been having "serious financial troubles" according to US media for the last 15 years. They have been "on the verge of bankruptcy" according to US media for the last 15 years.

It's complete and total bullshit. Ignore it.

They have ZERO issues financially. They make a good net profit every single year.

A bunch of moron teams in Europe and the NBA read that shit put out by that team itself for the last 15 years and believe it and fall for it and pay ridiculously overpriced buyouts for their players and then they laugh about it and make money off it.

You probably have OKC media reporting such things...being the dupes and morons getting that info straight from that club, being idiots so that the Thunder also being morons will think "this club is in serious financial trouble"...so they need money so we can pay a buyout for this player to "help them out"...blah blah blah

The whole time they make a net profit every single year. They are the craftiest of all basketball teams in the world, with the craftiest of all managers.

And their "financial problems" simply means they are changing name sponsors...a simple local company that pays money to have their name on the jerseys and the sponsorship name of the team. For which they get 2 million euros.

They freaking change the name of the club like every 2 years. Lots of teams in Spain and Italy like literally change the name of the team every year. It's nothing more than a small sponsorship fee. That's it. Every time when they do that they claim "the club is going bankrupt because the name sponsor ran out". Then they start selling players "because the club is going bankrupt". Selling them with ridiculous buyouts to stupid clubs that fall for it.

Then right after that, BOOM, instantly they have a new name sponsor at 2 million euros, even though before that they claimed no one would sponsor them.

None of that even accounts for the fact that is nothing but an additional cash flow for the club. Spending and operating expenses. That isn't the actual club budget, but they pretend like it is. Nope.

The club itself has a rather large budget that the club itself finances, and also the local city and Basque region also finances. The community itself even subsidizes the club. And they have a huge income from a big new state of the art arena, huge attendance income (like one of the top 5 teams in all of Europe every year) lots of merchandize sales, etc. So even if they did not get that sponsorship, it would basically be totally meaningless. The "serious financial trouble" would amount to no more than releasing like one player probably. And they already did that by releasing Andres Nocioni.

In other words, they sign players like Pleiss that have a draft rights owned by an NBA team pretty much basically for the purpose of trying to extract a large buyout from a European team, and if that does not work, then they can always get an NBA buyout, all the while making that team that paid the buyout think they fleeced a team with "serious financial troubles".

They have been doing this crap for years.

[Locked_Up_Tonight]

Before Dirk won the MVP in the NBA (2007)and a Finals MVP (2011).... he won:

2002 World Championships MVP
2005 Eurobasket MVP
Named European Basketball Player of the Year from 2002-2006
Named FIBA's European Player of the Year for 2005 and 2011




So to say he was a scrub in Europe is a gross exaggeration.

[Euroleague]

To be fair both were just kids when they played in Europe. Both joined the NBA at around 19 I think

What is fair about claiming Rodriguez was a scrub in the NBA, went to the Euroleague and became MVP?

If people are going to make claims like that, where NO ALLOWANCE OF ANY KIND IS ALLOWED FOR THE CIRCUMSTANCES OR THE CONTEXT...

and EVERYONE here states over and over these things are "FACT"....

then it's only 100% the SAME THING

then that

Parker and Dirk were scrubs in Europe that were NBA MVPs.

It's the SAME EXACT THING.

No context is allowed AT ALL in the claims of NBA only fans when they make these "arguments" or state these "facts".

They can't have it both ways.

[Euroleague]

I watched many Barcelonas games in Endesa and even though in some of them Abrines wasn't that good he had some where he was amazing.

I remember that in game against Real week before EL F4 he scored 5 or 6 3s and had 20+ pts with very high FG% ( maybe 2 or 3 misses in the game ).
IMO he is more talented than people give him credit for because it's very hard for a young player to play in elite team like Barcelona and he is still very young.

His future mostly depends on his shooting, if he becomes consistant enough than he could be one of the best European players and I strongly belive it will happen.

I didn't watch Pleiss this season very much but I watched him before and I wasn't impressed. Since there aren't many good Cs in NBA maybe he could be good backup but it's hard to tell since he would probably need pass first pg and not Westbrook.

Abrines is very very talented but that is it. He's nothing more than a pure talent. Absolutely nothing more than that.

He does or does not do anything solely on his talent level, which is very high. But he has absolutely nothing beyond talent. So we can't say "he will be one of the best European players" and then say it's a sure thing.

Not when the does everything based on pure talent alone. He's at his 100% pure athletic peak right now. I've had this discussion with you here like 10 times before. You seem to think players just keep getting better and better from a set age because they are young.

It does not work that way. He's at his MAXIMUM level right now athletically and physically. He will never be as good as he is now physically.

So unless he starts to develop something other than pure ability and talent, he would actually start to decline and get worse, not get better. That's how it works, not the other way around.

He's definitely got talent. But he has no game. Yes he is able to shoot the ball and hit a lot of threes, but everything is in streak shooting and it's all in bunches.

His shooting is done on talent and athleticism. So yes, tremendous talent, but he still has no game yet. So you can't just say this nonsense, "he will for sure be one of the best European players". I don't know why you keep saying this stuff about all these players.

We keep having this discussion over and over and over.

Talent is NOT the same thing as skill. You don't seem to separate the two.

Like already the comparison was mentioned as Rudy from NBA fan side, and that's what US media and NBA teams hype as "next Rudy". No....................

At the same age, Rudy already had way more skill and game than Abrines has, like not even freaking close. And to put that in proper perspective, Rudy is just now at JUST THIS TIME starting to get a decent handle, and he STILL doesn't have proper ability to create his own shot. Even now.

Some players improve every year....SOME do. You can't just throw blanket statements like that "I am sure he will be one of the best" making absolutes like he will. Not when he has all kinds of areas of his game he needs to develop.

Because right now he basically just beats people in every way with his athletic ability, not with any actual game. You can't just assume he will improve every year. For every guy that did that got better every year, there are 150 that did not.

Abrines can already play for Thunder, and as I said he would be better than Sefolasha was, but come on, you need to stop with all this stuff all the time where you always take talent and don't separate it from skill.

[Euroleague]

Thank you for your feedback.

The encouraging thing about Alex Abrines is that he is still very young but continues to improve each year when given additional playing time by shooting more efficiently and being more productive. It sounds like he is like a lot of young players that struggle with consistency. But he could be a good bench player and a good floor spacer next to KD and Russell Westbrook in the NBA in a couple of years. I don't see him being ready though for at least another two years, at a minimum.

Pleiss is hard to get a handle on because he didn't do anything his first couple of years playing professionally and was good for only five or six points per game before this last season. He suddenly averaged 13 points per game on a good shooting percentage now that he became more of a focal point of his teams offense. He does seem to have good hands in a pick and roll situation and could get some easy scoring opportunities by rolling to the basket. I suspect that he will be in Oklahoma City for the 2015-2016 season and playing back up to Steven Adams.

No. It is just like Oly said. Baskonia runs a complete 100% pick and roll for the center to finish offense. So the center's offensive stats will be greatly inflated.

They made Splitter look like a good scorer, and everyone in US was claiming he was "best center in Europe", blah blah blah.

Splitter has always in his entire career been one of the worst offensive players in Europe, in FIBA with Brazil's national etc. Absolutely one of the worst imaginable. He was without any doubt one of the worst centers offensive in Euroleague the whole time he played there.

But his stats always looked nice, because of that offensive system they play in Baskonia. Actually, Pleiss is much better on offense than Splitter is, but the point is, you can't judge by the points there.

Basically anyone that plays center in Baskonia has a huge inflation in there stats. Just look at Lampe's stats for comparison if you don't believe, before and after playing in Baskonia, it's the same thing.

Pleiss' stats with Bamberg would be more indicative of his normal production probably, or he could probably do a little better since he's older and more experienced now.

But it's not being more of a focal point in the offense, it's like being in a Mike D'Antoni Phoenix Suns team and then the whole time in half court they just run pick and roll every time, and the center has the finish like Amare would have.

And no one on the team is ever asked to play defense, so they don't have to expend energy that way either, so that also helps. But they get really good guards to run pick and roll (Prigioni, Huertel) guys like this and they just set up the center over and over, and all the center has to have his soft hands.

Splitter is a horribly bad offensive player, and by simply having soft hands and being able to roll and cut to the basket, and having size, he was able to put up good numbers, even though he's atrociously awful on offense.

So yeah, I really would not be basing much of anything on the stats of centers in that team to be honest. But Pleiss is a good center though, he's way better than Perkins for damn sure.

[Euroleague]

Not always, I think it's part of Barcelona's business plan to ocasionally hype young, local players. They could definitely get someone better.

*cough*Rubio*cough*

[Euroleague]

Before Dirk won the MVP in the NBA (2007)and a Finals MVP (2011).... he won:

2002 World Championships MVP
2005 Eurobasket MVP
Named European Basketball Player of the Year from 2002-2006
Named FIBA's European Player of the Year for 2005 and 2011




So to say he was a scrub in Europe is a gross exaggeration.

Not one single thing has anything at all to do with playing in Europe idiot. That's FIBA basketball and also awards that are for NBA play genius.

:facepalm

Stop trolling.

[Milbuck]

Not one single thing has anything at all to do with playing in Europe idiot. That's FIBA basketball and also awards that are for NBA play genius.

:facepalm
Yeah, Eurobasket MVP and FIBA POY aren't EUROLEAGUE awards. Solid logic.

[Euroleague]

Yeah, Eurobasket MVP and FIBA POY aren't EUROLEAGUE awards. Solid logic.

If they are, then NCAA and D-League awards are NBA awards. Using your "logic". Same with FIBA Americas and FIBA Americas League.

Example, Leo Gutierrez is like a 5 time NBA MVP then using your "logic".

Why should any of this be a surprise though - that you can't grasp such simplistic concepts as this...

You still can't even grasp that Antetokounmpo could not be an all star of the Greek League because he never played in the Greek League.

:facepalm :roll: :oldlol: :lol

So according to you, the Puerto Rican League is the "Euroleague" (you claimed Arroyo was playing in "Euroleague" when he won the Puerto Rican League)

Also, the Greek 2nd division is the "Euroleague" (you claimed that Antetokounmpo was "best player in Euroleague" when he played in Greek 2nd division)

and now you claim that FIBA tournaments and awards given for NBA games are also "Euroleague" (your new claim now about Dirk right here)...


:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

Lay off the meth.

[Milbuck]

If they are, then NCAA and D-League awards are NBA awards. Using your "logic". Same with FIBA Americas and FIBA Americas League.

Example, Leo Gutierrez is like a 5 time NBA MVP then using your "logic".
:facepalm

The NBA is clearly 100% a professional basketball league. Why would you consider the achievements of a player in a collegiate basketball program and/or amateur league when talking about professional accolades? You just laid out an awful analogy that doesn't work on any level.

Whereas with Euroleague, itself and its several divisions, namely Eurobasket/Eurocup/FIBA/Greek League, are all a part of one collective European amateur basketball league. Hence people typically considering all of those amateur division achievements EUROLEAGUE achievements.

We've been over this multiple times and it's baffling to see you continually unable to grasp the concept.

[Locked_Up_Tonight]

EuroLeague, you said Dirk was a scrub in Europe.

So where exactly was EuroBasket played at again? Was it in America?

[Rooster]

:facepalm

The NBA is clearly 100% a professional basketball league. Why would you consider the achievements of a player in a collegiate basketball program and/or amateur league when talking about professional accolades? You just laid out an awful analogy that doesn't work on any level.

Whereas with Euroleague, itself and its several divisions, namely Eurobasket/Eurocup/FIBA/Greek League, are all a part of one collective European amateur basketball league. Hence people typically considering all of those amateur division achievements EUROLEAGUE achievements.

We've been over this multiple times and it's baffling to see you continually unable to grasp the concept.

Great point.:applause:

Anthony Parker resume in Europe speaks for itself:roll:

2x Euroleague MVP:oldlol:
1x Final Four MVP:oldlol:
3x Euroleague championships:oldlol:
All Decade Team:roll:
35 Euroleague greatest players:roll:

And he only played in Europe for 5 years. LMAO

[Maga_1]

Yeah, Eurobasket MVP and FIBA POY aren't EUROLEAGUE awards. Solid logic.

:roll: :roll:

I like your trolling

[bukowski81]

:facepalm

The NBA is clearly 100% a professional basketball league. Why would you consider the achievements of a player in a collegiate basketball program and/or amateur league when talking about professional accolades? You just laid out an awful analogy that doesn't work on any level.

Whereas with Euroleague, itself and its several divisions, namely Eurobasket/Eurocup/FIBA/Greek League, are all a part of one collective European amateur basketball league. Hence people typically considering all of those amateur division achievements EUROLEAGUE achievements.

We've been over this multiple times and it's baffling to see you continually unable to grasp the concept.

I guess you are trolling but some people just have no idea that it wouldnt be that shocking if you are not.

Euroleague is a 100% professional league. Eurobasket is a competition of national teams, not clubs, FIBA is the International Basketball Federation, of which the USA is member, the equivalent of FIFA in soccer and the Greek League is just a league with only Greek Teams.

If you follow soccer, think of the Euroleague as the Champions League and the Eurocup as the UEFA CUP.

Just like in the Champions League, not every year participate the same teams in the Euroleague, you have to earn a spot based on different criteria.

[tpols]

:facepalm

The NBA is clearly 100% a professional basketball league. Why would you consider the achievements of a player in a collegiate basketball program and/or amateur league when talking about professional accolades? You just laid out an awful analogy that doesn't work on any level.

Whereas with Euroleague, itself and its several divisions, namely Eurobasket/Eurocup/FIBA/Greek League, are all a part of one collective European amateur basketball league. Hence people typically considering all of those amateur division achievements EUROLEAGUE achievements.

We've been over this multiple times and it's baffling to see you continually unable to grasp the concept.

doesnt the best talent of the euroleague come from its second division leagues like eurocup? Best talent for the NBA comes from NCAA and high school ball.. only difference is the name.. it's the same thing. If Europe had a giant colegiate program and a draft straight to first tier pro teams it would be the exact same thing.

[qrich]

Nigeria!

The Green Eagles!

[Euroleague]

EuroLeague, you said Dirk was a scrub in Europe.

So where exactly was EuroBasket played at again? Was it in America?

The EuroBasket has absolutely nothing to do with the Euroleague. Please stop the trolling.

[duskovujosevic]

Is the Euroleague greatest troll of all time on ISH?

[gabepizza]

What is fair about claiming Rodriguez was a scrub in the NBA, went to the Euroleague and became MVP?

If people are going to make claims like that, where NO ALLOWANCE OF ANY KIND IS ALLOWED FOR THE CIRCUMSTANCES OR THE CONTEXT...

and EVERYONE here states over and over these things are "FACT"....

then it's only 100% the SAME THING

then that

Parker and Dirk were scrubs in Europe that were NBA MVPs.

It's the SAME EXACT THING.

No context is allowed AT ALL in the claims of NBA only fans when they make these "arguments" or state these "facts".

They can't have it both ways.

The most insane thing ever posted on inside hoops.

Tony Parker came to the NBA at the age of 19.

Dirk Nowitzki came to the NBA at the age of 20.

Sergio Rodriguez came to Euroleague at the age of 24 and became an MVP four years later.

The amazing thing is you're still trolling about Euroleague after the championship was won by a team of undrafted American scrubs.

D-League > Euroleague

And the Euroleague final MVP is...the undrafted, unable to make the 12th man of an NBA benck....Tyrese Rice.

Euroleague has been exposed as the league where the worst, unathletic, NBA rejects can become champions and final MVP.

I allm honestly I think the CBA has overcome the Euroleague at this point.

Tyrese Rice finals MVP...how utterly embarrassing.
:facepalm

[Im Still Ballin]

EL and gabepizza are the same person

LMAO

[andremiller07]

EL and gabepizza are the same person

LMAO
Yeah it's pretty hilarious, I figured it out ages ago

[Locked_Up_Tonight]

The EuroBasket has absolutely nothing to do with the Euroleague. Please stop the trolling.

Never said it was EuroLeague. You said he was a scrub in Europe.

See the difference?