both magic and shaq

[abdubaba]

Have said kobe is the greatest laker ever... i dont understand anymore

[ImKobe]

Because all-time greats that live & breathe basketball have no knowledge on this subject, we should all listen to the 15-20 yr old trolls on ISH, their opinion matters more.

Jerry West also said Kobe's the greatest Laker.

[abdubaba]

Because all-time greats that live & breathe basketball have no knowledge on this subject, we should all listen to the 15-20 yr old trolls on ISH, their opinion matters more.

Jerry West also said Kobe's the greatest Laker.

I really dont get it anymore... kobe accomplished more without shaq on his side than shaq did without kobe on his side.

[Foster5k]

Well, you can take them at their word or look at the numbers.

Numbers don't lie. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar wins if it's based on numbers.

Then it's a tie between Magic and Kobe based on things outside the numbers.

So....

1.KAJ
2a.Magic
2b.Kobe

Then the rest fall in line.

[Dragic4Life]

Greatest Lakers player in order:

1. Magic
2. West
3. Kareem
4. Shaq
5. Kobe

Finally Kobe makes a top 5 list.

[kennethgriffin]

dont really see how kobe isnt the goat laker

he holds nearly all the records

he played longer than anyone

he shares the most titles won with magic johnson

he played twice as long as magic

he made the team more money than any other player

he carried the franchise pretty much as the only superstar for a decade ( 2005-2014 )

while other past stars shared the spotlight ( west/baylor to wilt/west to magic/kareem to shaq/kobe )

only other guy to carry the team on his own for a long time was kareem in the late 70's. but that was a bad time for the nba and LA

kareem spent half his time on milwaukee

wilt spent most of his time on warriors/sixers

mikan played in Minneapolis

shaq was a journey man

magic only had a 12 year career and shared a team with 4 other hall of famers ( wilkes, mcadoo, worthy, kareem )

then came back in 95 for a sideshow


kobes 17th year = 28/6/5 average, 1st team all nba


goat laker by far.

most accomplished
most popular world wide
most marketable
most records
most titles

[Overdrive]

I really dont get it anymore... kobe accomplished more without shaq on his side than shaq did without kobe on his side.

I love the logic behind this.

[abdubaba]

Well, you can take them at their word or look at the numbers.

Numbers don't lie. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar wins if it's based on numbers.

Then it's a tie between Magic and Kobe based on things outside the numbers.

So....

1.KAJ
2a.Magic
2b.Kobe

Then the rest fall in line.

I agree with you but those KAJ teams included magic u know. U gotta account for that. Magic played with KAJ and he and the logo have kobe as the greatest laker ever.

[Hey Yo]

Magic also said rings are all that matters.

Havlicek > anyone not named Bill Russell

[Dragic4Life]

Magic also said rings are all that matters.

Havlicek > anyone not named Bill Russell
Horry > Kobe confirmed.

[abdubaba]

Greatest Lakers player in order:

1. Magic
2. West
3. Kareem
4. Shaq
5. Kobe

Finally Kobe makes a top 5 list.

But magic shaq and west put kobe on top... are u a kid? Or are u still sour that kobe shat on the suns en route to a third final in a row??

[Hey Yo]

Greatest Lakers player in order:

1. Magic
2. West
3. Kareem
4. Shaq
5. Kobe

Finally Kobe makes a top 5 list.
Magic's defense was horrible.

Drop him down to 5.

[kennethgriffin]

Magic also said rings are all that matters.

Havlicek > anyone not named Bill Russell

60's and 70's rings are cut in half though

hense bill russell routinely being ranked slightly behind MJ

because his 11 turn into 5.5

[kennethgriffin]

Horry > Kobe confirmed.

only a fan of someone lacking in rings would compare a role players total to a legend


you must like lebron james

:lol

[abdubaba]

dont really see how kobe isnt the goat laker

he holds nearly all the records

he played longer than anyone

he shares the most titles won with magic johnson

he played twice as long as magic

he made the team more money than any other player

he carried the franchise pretty much as the only superstar for a decade ( 2005-2014 )

while other past stars shared the spotlight ( west/baylor to wilt/west to magic/kareem to shaq/kobe )

only other guy to carry the team on his own for a long time was kareem in the late 70's. but that was a bad time for the nba and LA

kareem spent half his time on milwaukee

wilt spent most of his time on warriors/sixers

mikan played in Minneapolis

shaq was a journey man

magic only had a 12 year career and shared a team with 4 other hall of famers ( wilkes, mcadoo, worthy, kareem )

then came back in 95 for a sideshow


kobes 17th year = 28/6/5 average, 1st team all nba


goat laker by far.

most accomplished
most popular world wide
most marketable
most records
most titles

Thank you. Now i see why sir charles has him in his top 5 all time.

[Overdrive]

But magic shaq and west put kobe on top... are u a kid? Or are u still sour that kobe shat on the suns en route to a third final in a row??

Maybe aside from Jordan nobody will ever claim he's the best. Kobe will just say Magic, West or KAJ were the best Lakers. Diplomacy.

[abdubaba]

I love the logic behind this.

Its common sense really. Shaq knows it

[Hey Yo]

60's and 70's rings are cut in half though

hense bill russell routinely being ranked slightly behind MJ

because his 11 turn into 5.5
Not according to retard Magic.

[Roundball_Rock]

KAJ only spent the first 6 seasons of his career in Milwaukee. 70% of his career was in LA, which included 5-6 prime seasons, 5-6 more elite seasons and 1 more all-star season. If Kobe is the GOAT Laker that implies Kobe>KAJ and Kobe>>>Magic.

Resumes as Lakers

MVP's: KAJ 3, Magic 3, Kobe 1
Rings: KAJ 5, Magic 5, Kobe 5

Top 3 in MVP: Magic 9, Kobe 5, KAJ 4,
Top 5 in MVP: Kobe 11, KAJ 9, Magic 9

Seasons: Kobe 18, KAJ 14, Magic 13

If KAJ never played in Milwaukee he would still be top 5 all-time. Kobe has a case but I think people sell KAJ short because they underestimate what he did as a Laker. Yeah, he was a role player for his final 2 seasons but he provided 12 all-star caliber seasons and 11 elite seasons. KAJ also was the best player in the league as a Laker longer than Magic or Kobe were.

[abdubaba]

Maybe aside from Jordan nobody will ever claim he's the best. Kobe will just say Magic, West or KAJ were the best Lakers. Diplomacy.

They dont say that out of diplomacy tho... KAJ hasnt said it yet because he knows its between him and kobe.

[kennethgriffin]

Maybe aside from Jordan nobody will ever claim he's the best. Kobe will just say Magic, West or KAJ were the best Lakers. Diplomacy.

except only kobe has

- the most success
- the longest laker career
- the most marketting value
- the most stats
- the most records
- more legends saying hes goat laker



sorry guys.

Jerry West = 1 for 8 finals and no MVP

Magic Johnson = no defense, short career

shaquille o'neal = 8 years as a laker. more spent with other teams. half the success

kareem abdul jabbar = half his career spent with Milwaukee

wilt chamberlain = most of his career spent with warriors/sixers

Elgin Baylor = no titles






kobe pretty much wins by default.

kobe and magic are pretty much tied in terms of accomplishments. but kobe was twice as popular world wide and turned the lakers 5 times more proffit while giving them twice as many seasons





































/thread

[Hey Yo]

I really dont get it anymore... kobe accomplished more without shaq on his side than shaq did without kobe on his side.
Kobe didn't beat the Bulls on the way to a Finals appearance.

Shaq did.

[abdubaba]

KAJ only spent the first 6 seasons of his career in Milwaukee. 70% of his career was in LA, which included 5-6 prime seasons, 5-6 more elite seasons and 1 more all-star season. If Kobe is the GOAT Laker that implies Kobe>KAJ and Kobe>>>Magic.

Resumes as Lakers

MVP's: KAJ 3, Magic 3, Kobe 1
Rings: KAJ 5, Magic 5, Kobe 5

Top 3 in MVP: Magic 9, Kobe 5, KAJ 4,
Top 5 in MVP: Kobe 11, KAJ 9, Magic 9

Seasons: Kobe 18, KAJ 14, Magic 13

If KAJ never played in Milwaukee he would still be top 5 all-time. Kobe has a case but I think people sell KAJ short because they underestimate what he did as a Laker. Yeah, he was a role player for his final 2 seasons but he provided 12 all-star caliber seasons and 11 elite seasons. KAJ also was the best player in the league as a Laker longer than Magic or Kobe were.

You are right still... for me its between KAJ and kobe. KAJ had his best years with magic by his side tho... kobe had great laker years with and without shaq

[abdubaba]

Kobe didn't beat the Bulls on the way to a Finals appearance.

Shaq did.

:facepalm

[kennethgriffin]

Kobe didn't beat the Bulls on the way to a Finals appearance.

Shaq did.


didnt shaq get swept in the finals that year


that 95 bulls team wasnt great. jordan was half the player he was in 93 or 96. guy just came back like 2 weeks before the playoffs out of shape and out of rhythm

and they didnt have rodman yet



but it is a fact that kobes had a top 10 all time career without shaq

shaq doesnt even have a top 30 all time career without kobe

[Hey Yo]

kareem abdul jabbar = half his career spent with Milwaukee
No math degree, huh?

14 seasons with LAL
6 with Milwaukee.

[abdubaba]

didnt shaq get swept in the finals that year


that 95 bulls team wasnt great. jordan was half the player he was in 93 or 96. guy just came back like 2 weeks before the playoffs out of shape and out of rhythm

and they didnt have rodman yet



but it is a fact that kobes had a top 10 all time career without shaq

shaq doesnt even have a top 30 all time career without kobe

Dont diminish shaq bro... but ya... when i think about it. 1 2006 referee dwade mvp ring without kobe. Not kool. But he was dominant from 92 to 99 without kobe. All be it with little results. He was more like wilt 2/6 chamberlain

[Hey Yo]

didnt shaq get swept in the finals that year


that 95 bulls team wasnt great. jordan was half the player he was in 93 or 96. guy just came back like 2 weeks before the playoffs out of shape and out of rhythm

and they didnt have rodman yet



but it is a fact that kobes had a top 10 all time career without shaq

shaq doesnt even have a top 30 all time career without kobe
Jordan was out of rhythm when he dropped 55 on the Knicks?

Kobe w/o Shaq still has a top 10 career????

:roll: :roll:

He's not even top 10 with him.

[abdubaba]

Jordan was out of rhythm when he dropped 55 on the Knicks?

Kobe w/o Shaq still has a top 10 career????

:roll: :roll:

He's not even top 10 with him.

Care to explain... 3 straight finals. B2B tittles... scoring rampages. All without shaq. What did shaq do without kobe. Care to explain retard

[Roundball_Rock]

You are right still... for me its between KAJ and kobe. KAJ had his best years with magic by his side tho... kobe had great laker years with and without shaq

KAJ's best years were without Magic, if you are talking about individual performance. KAJ was the best player in the league for only one season with Magic; he was the best player as a Laker from 1975-1980. He won 2 of his 3 Laker MVP's without Magic. I see your point regarding team performance, though.


that 95 bulls team wasnt great.

They finished the year 21-6 and 13-4 with MJ. They arguably were the second best team in the East with MJ.


Care to explain... 3 straight finals. B2B tittles... scoring rampages. All without shaq. What did shaq do without kobe.

Shaq without Kobe

1 ring
2 Finals
4 ECF's
MVP runner-up 2x (95', 05')

Why do people act as if Shaq did nothing without Kobe? Shaq was a top 5 player in the league every year from 1994-2005 and was top 10 in 1993 and 2006, with or without Kobe.

[abdubaba]

KAJ's best years were without Magic, if you are talking about individual performance. KAJ was the best player in the league for only one season with Magic; he was the best player as a Laker from 1975-1980. He won 2 of his 3 Laker MVP's without Magic. I see your point regarding team performance, though.



They finished the year 21-6 and 13-4 with MJ. They arguably were the second best team in the East with MJ.



Shaq without Kobe

1 ring
2 Finals
4 ECF's
MVP runner-up 2x (95', 05')

Why do people act as if Shaq did nothing without Kobe? Shaq was a top 5 player in the league every year from 1994-2005 and was top 10 in 1993 and 2006, with or without Kobe.

Roundball bro. I like u. U can see my join date. I dont post a lot but i visit often and observe posters. U post with facts passion and research. But in all due respect. Those accomplishments u posted for shaq without kobe are nothing compared to what kobe accomplished without shaq... kobe went to 3 straight finals winning a b2b and we know about the scoring that people say he cant do without shaq and his MVP too without shaq. I see ur point and im not saying shaq did nothing without kobe but compared to what kobe did without shaq as THE man. Its not close. The one ring shaq has is a referee dwade ring

[ImKobe]

Roundball bro. I like u. U can see my join date. I dont post a lot but i visit often and observe posters. U post with facts passion and research. But in all due respect. Those accomplishments u posted for shaq without kobe are nothing compared to what kobe accomplished without shaq... kobe went to 3 straight finals winning a b2b and we know about the scoring that people say he cant do without shaq and his MVP too without shaq. I see ur point and im not saying shaq did nothing without kobe but compared to what kobe did without shaq as THE man. Its not close. The one ring shaq has is a referee dwade ring

Agreed. Shaq has 1 sidekick ring to show for without Kobe while Kobe has 2 rings as the FMVP and 3 straight Finals runs. Shaq got swept in the 1st round as a defending champ in 07 and failed to win with Lebron, Nash and the Celtics big 3.

[abdubaba]

Agreed. Shaq has 1 sidekick ring to show for without Kobe while Kobe has 2 rings as the FMVP and 3 straight Finals runs. Shaq got swept in the 1st round as a defending champ in 07 and failed to win with Lebron, Nash and the Celtics big 3.

Stop bro... nobody tryna diss shaq. But when u look at it... he was mvp runner up in 2005... so he had 3 solid years without kobe.. 05 06 and 07 where he should have done more and all he has to show is the fraud 06 referee ring. Not impressive. And before 2000 kobe he was just a great center. Like ewing. Kobe helped put him over the top.

[Roundball_Rock]

Roundball bro. I like u. U can see my join date. I dont post a lot but i visit often and observe posters. U post with facts passion and research.

Thanks. :cheers:


Those accomplishments u posted for shaq without kobe are nothing compared to what kobe accomplished without shaq... kobe went to 3 straight finals winning a b2b and we know about the scoring that people say he cant do without shaq and his MVP too without shaq. I see ur point and im not saying shaq did nothing without kobe but compared to what kobe did without shaq as THE man. Its not close. The one ring shaq has is a referee dwade ring

Yeah, I agree that Kobe did more without Shaq than vice versa. The caveat I would add to that is Shaq spent most of his prime with Kobe. Shaq's peak also coincided with playing with Kobe while Kobe's peak came without Shaq. Kobe had a greater opportunity to produce without Shaq in terms of time and also because he was at or near his peak more years than Shaq was. When Shaq played without Kobe he was young or declining.

If Wade did not get hurt in the ECF in 05' Shaq may have won 2 rings in Miami.

[abdubaba]

Thanks. :cheers:



Yeah, I agree that Kobe did more without Shaq than vice versa. The caveat I would add to that is Shaq spent most of his prime with Kobe. Shaq's peak also coincided with playing with Kobe while Kobe's peak came without Shaq. Kobe had a greater opportunity to produce without Shaq in terms of time and also because he was at or near his peak more years than Shaq was. When Shaq played without Kobe he was young or declining.

If Wade did not get hurt in the ECF in 05' Shaq may have won 2 rings in Miami.

The problem with that argument bro is that kobes numbers with shaq are similar to his numbers post shaq years. Shaqs numbers too were great before kobe but he didnt win.

But anyways roundball my argument is that both shaq and kobe and west have put kobe as the goat laker and they have a point. But shaq is also a great laker or else he wouldnt have his jersey retired

[Roundball_Rock]

Agreed.

Yeah, Shaq was great individually but could not get over the top before Kobe despite having very good teams in Orlando with Penny, Grant and having Van Exel and Jones along with Kobe in LA.

[abdubaba]

Agreed.

Yeah, Shaq was great individually but could not get over the top before Kobe despite having very good teams in Orlando with Penny, Grant and having Van Exel and Jones along with Kobe in LA.

U made really good arguments too. But i hate when kobe stans come in dissing shaq... shaq said if he and kobe stayed together they coulda had 5 or 6 rings but the fact is kobe wanted to prove people wrong that shaq didnt make him the player he is and he proved that with 3 straight finals and b2b rings

And while kobe didnt make shaq the player he is, shaq couldnt really prove that kobe didnt make him the winner he is

[Hey Yo]

Care to explain... 3 straight finals. B2B tittles... scoring rampages. All without shaq. What did shaq do without kobe. Care to explain retard
So you're also saying that Kobe has a top 10 career even w/o the stats and rings he put up with Shaq

Not counting last year or didn't participate in playoffs due to injury in 12-13 season.

played 9yrs w/o Shaq

missed the playoffs 1x
bounced in the 1st round 2x
bounced in 2nd round 2x (swept in one of those)
made the Finals 3 straight seasons
won 2 rings and 2 FMVP's
1 reg. season MVP.
2x scoring champion

That's not even close to top 10 material

[abdubaba]

So you're also saying that Kobe has a top 10 career even w/o the stats and rings he put up with Shaq

Not counting last year or didn't participate in playoffs due to injury in 12-13 season.

played 9yrs w/o Shaq

missed the playoffs 1x
bounced in the 1st round 2x
bounced in 2nd round 2x (swept in one of those)
made the Finals 3 straight seasons
won 2 rings and 2 FMVP's
1 reg. season MVP.
2x scoring champion

That's not even close to top 10 material

Hahahahahahahaha how is that not top ten material??? 3 straight finals and b2b without colluding??? His stats from 05 to 07? Now go ahead and post shaq without kobe and tell me its top 30 material

[Hey Yo]

Hahahahahahahaha how is that not top ten material??? 3 straight finals and b2b without colluding??? His stats from 05 to 07? Now go ahead and post shaq without kobe and tell me its top 30 material
Because it's not a long enough period to be considered top 10.

Colluding or collusion means "doing something illegal." So by you stating he "without colluding" holds no merit whatsoever.

His stats in the regular season from 05-07, IN HIS PRIME, didn't lead to the 2nd round and even missed the playoffs all together.

If he was having such great years, then why the need to demand a trade after his 3rd year w/o Shaq?

[Jacks3]

Kobe is the greatest Laker ever.

No other Laker has his combination of peak play, prime play, longevity, two-way play, and team success/accolades/accomplishments.

He's pretty much had the perfect career. :confusedshrug:

[AnaheimLakers24]

Well, you can take them at their word or look at the numbers.

Numbers don't lie. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar wins if it's based on numbers.

Then it's a tie between Magic and Kobe based on things outside the numbers.

So....

1.KAJ
2a.Magic
2b.Kobe

Then the rest fall in line.
kobe an magic are life long lakkers though. something magic cant say

magic an kobe are more important

[abdubaba]

Because it's not a long enough period to be considered top 10.

Colluding or collusion means "doing something illegal." So by you stating he "without colluding" holds no merit whatsoever.

His stats in the regular season from 05-07, IN HIS PRIME, didn't lead to the 2nd round and even missed the playoffs all together.

If he was having such great years, then why the need to demand a trade after his 3rd year w/o Shaq?

In 8 years without shaq... as soon aa he got a half decent player in pau he went to 3 straight finals winning b2b... now go ahead and show me what shaq did without kobe

[Orlando Magic]

Because all-time greats that live & breathe basketball have no knowledge on this subject, we should all listen to the 15-20 yr old trolls on ISH, their opinion matters more.

Jerry West also said Kobe's the greatest Laker.

Because being an all-time great that lives & breathes basketball means you're NOT a moron, NOT impulsive, and or NOT seeking attention.

Michael Jordan has been the best player ever, the best GM ever, and the best owner ever. The best. Ever. At them all. Also... Mark Jackson is a good color commentator and announcer.

All-time greats that live & breathe basketball... well... their word is absolute. Don't question it. They're never wrong... ever. I agree with you!

Your logic is undeniable.

[the mesiah]

MAGIC all day for me, when I think of the LA Lakers scene for me I think of glitz ,glamour ,Hollywood ,hoes and Magic embodies all that in one.he had the charisma ,will ,leadership ,intangibles to represent a city for what it was .he made average players into well known household names ,could play anywhere from the 1-5 spots , carried on his back the team brought nba to life out the dead of the 70's.