Bigger lost, HOU losing Parsons or Indy losing Lance?

[DMV2]

As much as I love Lance Stevenson, I think Indy can still make it back to the playoffs. Might become a 1st or 2nd exit team though.

Houston, losing their most clutch player, will probably struggle to make it into the playoffs in the wild, wild west next season.

LOL @ Howard saying losing Parsons won't hurt the team. How many times have Parsons bailed them out on clutch buckets?

[DMV2]

Actually, I'm gonna make a bold statement by saying Houston will miss the 2015 playoffs.

They'll probably have a winning record but it just won't be good enough for #8 seed in the West.

[qrich]

Houston upgraded to Ariza, assuming Trevor doesn't disappear, but the loss on the bench will be devastating. Plus, I don't like Harden at all and McHale is horrible. Bev starting is :eek:

Indiana has a better coach, but need Hibbert to grow a pair, if they want to get back into a top 3 seed.

[Milbuck]

Asik, Parsons, & Lin >>>>> Lance

Houston got destroyed this offseason.

[Dragic4Life]

Losing Parsons.

[oh the horror]

Houston lost big time. I mean it wasn't just parsons but parsons, Asik and Lin. That's a lot.


But lance man....Indy had issues generating offense last season. I can't even imagine now.

[ottooooooo]

parsons cause he white/better lookin

[DMV2]

I feel bad for Ariza, he'll be the only guy playing defense out there. :oldlol:

[LA_Showtime]

I'd say Houston, simply because I don't see how they improve. Dwight and Harden are basically who they are at this point. Indiana, on the other hand, could improve simply because of George and Hibbert pulling his head out of his ass. There's also something to be said for chemistry, which is something that supposedly plagued Indiana, not Houston.

[Foster5k]

Indy. Parsons, Asik, lin are non factors in the grand scheme of things.

[Haymaker]

Houston because the West is so much more competitive than the east that you can't afford to lose a good player. Indy still have a somewhat deep team to compete in the east.

[gts]

neither one of these teams was in a spot where losing a solid player should have been an option... In the end Houston probably will notice the pinch more because they play in a more demanding conference and lost other players but both teams are going to suffer next season

[UK2K]

As much as I love Lance Stevenson, I think Indy can still make it back to the playoffs. Might become a 1st or 2nd exit team though.

Houston, losing their most clutch player, will probably struggle to make it into the playoffs in the wild, wild west next season.

LOL @ Howard saying losing Parsons won't hurt the team. How many times have Parsons bailed them out on clutch buckets?
What are we betting? :lol

[UK2K]

I'd say Houston, simply because I don't see how they improve. Dwight and Harden are basically who they are at this point. Indiana, on the other hand, could improve simply because of George and Hibbert pulling his head out of his ass. There's also something to be said for chemistry, which is something that supposedly plagued Indiana, not Houston.

Only 4 of their 15 players on their roster have been in the league longer than 4 years, and two of those (Ariza, Josh Powell) were acquired this off season. I don't know how theyd improve.

:applause:

[lakerfreak]

The loss is equal, but how the two teams responded to their own situations are what is going to yield results.

[ImKobe]

Houston gonna be in trouble unless Ariza plays at least as well as he did last season for the Wizards. Outside Harden & Howard, that team doesn't look good at all... IDK what the hell they were thinking letting 3 of their top 5 players go..

[DMAVS41]

Houston gonna be in trouble unless Ariza plays at least as well as he did last season for the Wizards. Outside Harden & Howard, that team doesn't look good at all... IDK what the hell they were thinking letting 3 of their top 5 players go..

I actually don't mind what they've done...they just should have filled out the roster better.

Ariza will really help the defense (which is badly needed)...and keeping Jones/Montejunas will be nice as well.

Beverly/Harden/Ariza/Jones/Howard is actually a pretty sick lineup. It's just too bad they didn't go out and get a guy like Hawes or Frye. I would have done that instead of going after Bosh. Could have gotten potentially gotten Ariza/Hawes/Jameer Nelson...then they could have retained Parsons. I'd rather have than than Bosh/Parsons to be honest.

[ImKobe]

I actually don't mind what they've done...they just should have filled out the roster better.

Ariza will really help the defense (which is badly needed)...and keeping Jones/Montejunas will be nice as well.

Beverly/Harden/Ariza/Jones/Howard is actually a pretty sick lineup. It's just too bad they didn't go out and get a guy like Hawes or Frye. I would have done that instead of going after Bosh. Could have gotten potentially gotten Ariza/Hawes/Jameer Nelson...then they could have retained Parsons. I'd rather have than than Bosh/Parsons to be honest.

That's a nice starting line-up, but what about their bench?

[SCdac]

Houston was a first round exit team against the Blazers lol... Indiana was the best team in the east outside of Miami.

Having said that, I feel like Houston tried too hard to prop up Parsons as part of a "Big 3" and therefore there will be a bigger hole to fill, but Lance I thought was the better player for ultimately a better team.

Houston will still be Harden-centric offense, and Indiana will still be a George-centric offense. I think both teams can recover from their losses.

[boozehound]

lance by far.

[brantonli]

Houston was a first round exit team against the Blazers lol... Indiana was the best team in the east outside of Miami.

Having said that, I feel like Houston tried too hard to prop up Parsons as part of a "Big 3" and therefore there will be a bigger hole to fill, but Lance I thought was the better player for ultimately a better team.

Houston will still be Harden-centric offense, and Indiana will still be a George-centric offense. I think both teams can recover from their losses.

I'd disagree, if anything, it was precisely because they DIDN'T think Parsons was good enough to be part of a 'Big 3' that they didn't match the contract.

Houston has undoubtedly gotten worse, but it's starting lineup has barely changed, just replaced Parsons with Ariza. The bench has gotten effing terrible though, via the departure of Asik. Lin, meh, he wasn't doing very much as a 'spark' tbh. Morey signed Joey Dorsey a week ago, supposedly because he's now the best defensive player in Europe, so we'll see how Morey's brilliant plan of using Dorsey as a backup C will turn out.

[boozehound]

I'd disagree, if anything, it was precisely because they DIDN'T think Parsons was good enough to be part of a 'Big 3' that they didn't match the contract.

Houston has undoubtedly gotten worse, but it's starting lineup has barely changed, just replaced Parsons with Ariza. The bench has gotten effing terrible though, via the departure of Asik. Lin, meh, he wasn't doing very much as a 'spark' tbh. Morey signed Joey Dorsey a week ago, supposedly because he's now the best defensive player in Europe, so we'll see how Morey's brilliant plan of using Dorsey as a backup C will turn out.
didnt you have dorsey before? I wonder what this team would be like if they had held on to either dragic or lowry. They will be fine IMO. They do need a bit of bench help, but it will develop.

[brantonli]

didnt you have dorsey before? I wonder what this team would be like if they had held on to either dragic or lowry. They will be fine IMO. They do need a bit of bench help, but it will develop.

Sure did. In fact, this week, Morey signed Dorsey, Ish Smith, Jeff Adrien, all former Rockets. I always wondered about hanging onto Dragic, such a huge mistake in retrospect. Lowry we had to give up (he turned into the pick that gave us Harden). It looks like Montijuenas is getting plenty of burn in the summer league, although no idea where Terrence Jones is this summer.

[DMAVS41]

Houston was a first round exit team against the Blazers lol... Indiana was the best team in the east outside of Miami.

Having said that, I feel like Houston tried too hard to prop up Parsons as part of a "Big 3" and therefore there will be a bigger hole to fill, but Lance I thought was the better player for ultimately a better team.

Houston will still be Harden-centric offense, and Indiana will still be a George-centric offense. I think both teams can recover from their losses.

The Rockets were better than the Pacers last year, quite easily...ROFL..what are you talking about?

The Rockets would have won the East last year in the regular season and then had a great chance to beat the Heat.

The East sucked...it was just horrible and it's leading to you inflating a team like the Pacers.

The Rockets lost because LA went ****ing nuts for two straight games to start that series. It was so flukey...and if Lillard missed. It's back to Houston for game 7.

The Rockets were actually a better team than the Blazers last year. I know that sounds crazy at first, but it's true...if you played a round robin with every playoff team...the Rockets would come out ahead of the Blazers. It was the combination of some flukey stuff and the matchup.

LOL at Pacers over Rockets though...

[KNOW1EDGE]

Can we fix the thread title to say "bigger loss" instead of "bigger lost" -that $hit is driving me crazy

[SCdac]

The Rockets were better than the Pacers last year, quite easily...ROFL..what are you talking about?

The Rockets would have won the East last year in the regular season and then had a great chance to beat the Heat.

The East sucked...it was just horrible and it's leading to you inflating a team like the Pacers.

The Rockets lost because LA went ****ing nuts for two straight games to start that series. It was so flukey...and if Lillard missed. It's back to Houston for game 7.

The Rockets were actually a better team than the Blazers last year. I know that sounds crazy at first, but it's true...if you played a round robin with every playoff team...the Rockets would come out ahead of the Blazers. It was the combination of some flukey stuff and the matchup.

LOL at Pacers over Rockets though...

Disagree wholeheartedly that the Rockets were better. No coincidence the best teams in the conference finals were all good-great defensive teams, and teams with weak defense lost earlier in the playoffs.

[DMAVS41]

That's a nice starting line-up, but what about their bench?

Well, that was what I was talking about.

They could have gotten Ariza/Hawes/Jameer for less than Bosh. In fact, I think they could have kept Jones and Montejunas as well depending on what Jameer would have taken.

So the team would look something like;

Beverly/Jameer
Harden/Daniels
Parsons/Ariza
Jones/Montejunas
Howard/Hawes

I'm just listing the players....I don't know what the lineup would like that. I personally would probably run out beverly/harden/parsons/ariza/howard the most.

[SCdac]

I'd disagree, if anything, it was precisely because they DIDN'T think Parsons was good enough to be part of a 'Big 3' that they didn't match the contract.

Houston has undoubtedly gotten worse, but it's starting lineup has barely changed, just replaced Parsons with Ariza. The bench has gotten effing terrible though, via the departure of Asik. Lin, meh, he wasn't doing very much as a 'spark' tbh. Morey signed Joey Dorsey a week ago, supposedly because he's now the best defensive player in Europe, so we'll see how Morey's brilliant plan of using Dorsey as a backup C will turn out.

I agree that he's not a "Big 3" kind of player, but rather my point was, he was filling that hole because somebody on the Rockets had to. I wouldn't have overpaid Parsons either, as I don't think he's a 15-mill a year kind of player.

[DMAVS41]

Disagree wholeheartedly that the Rockets were better. No coincidence the best teams in the conference finals were all good-great defensive teams, and teams with weak defense lost earlier in the playoffs.

The Pacers would have lost in 6 to the Hawks if they didn't literally implode on the court in the first round.

The Pacers weren't good dude. The east sucked.

Also, the Rockets defense wasn't as bad as it's made out to be....they played an on fire Blazers team that stole the first two games.

[SCdac]

The Pacers would have lost in 6 to the Hawks if they didn't literally implode on the court in the first round.

The Pacers weren't good dude. The east sucked.

Also, the Rockets defense wasn't as bad as it's made out to be....they played an on fire Blazers team that stole the first two games.

The Rockets in the first round played some of the worst defense out of every team in the playoffs.

[coin24]

It will be hilarious when the lakers make the playoffs and the rockets don't :lol

The rockets offseason is probably even worse than the magics, dat dwight curse:oldlol:

[DMAVS41]

The Rockets in the first round played some of the worst defense out of every team in the playoffs.

Okay...and you think LA being absolutely on fire didn't have anything to do with it?

Jesus Christ man...you really think the Pacers would have beaten the Blazers?

Jeff Teague (who is not as good as Lillard) ****ing raped them. They had no answer for ****ing Antic. Millsap looked all nba.

The Blazers would have destroyed the Pacers. Good luck with Hibbert in that one.

[UK2K]

The Rockets in the first round played some of the worst defense out of every team in the playoffs.
And still outscored Portland in the series.

[Meticode]

Losing Stephenson is a bigger impact considering the Pacers replacement at this current time is C.J. Miles. The Rockets signed Ariza and all he has to do is knock down corner threes and play perimeter defense.

In the end, Stephenson makes a bigger impact on that Pacers team with his passing ability and ISO ability versus what Parsons does.

[DMAVS41]

Losing Stephenson is a bigger impact considering the Pacers replacement at this current time is C.J. Miles. The Rockets signed Ariza and all he has to do is knock down corner threes and play perimeter defense.

In the end, Stephenson makes a bigger impact on that Pacers team with his passing ability and ISO ability versus what Parsons does.

I thought the Pacers added Stuckey as well?

[SCdac]

Okay...and you think LA being absolutely on fire didn't have anything to do with it?

Jesus Christ man...you really think the Pacers would have beaten the Blazers?

Jeff Teague (who is not as good as Lillard) ****ing raped them. They had no answer for ****ing Antic.

The Blazers would have destroyed the Pacers. Good luck with Hibbert in that one.

LA was on fire because the Rockets defense sucks. LA being on fire made it difficult for the Rockets to play good D. It's reciprocal and I shouldn't have to explain why.

[Meticode]

I thought the Pacers added Stuckey as well?
Ahhh yes, they did. Even with that signing, I still think losing Lance hurts more than the Rockets losing Parsons. The East isn't clear-cut anymore, there's going to be several teams competing for the 1-3 spots.

[SCdac]

And still outscored Portland in the series.

Blazers sucked (or were not elite) at defense too. No one is denying Houston is an offensive team through and through. Yeah they can score buckets but they give up way too many buckets... at least last season.

[DMAVS41]

LA was on fire because the Rockets defense sucks. LA being on fire made it difficult for the Rockets to play good D. It's reciprocal and I shouldn't have to explain why.

Nah...LA was just making crazy shots. It happens...no defense to be played when a guy with those skills catches fire.

Also, who is stopping him on the Pacers? You fail to realize that the Pacers have nobody to do that. He'd abuse Hibbert...wouldn't even be possible...and he'd just shoot over West.

Lillard would carve them the **** up as well.

It would be a blood bath dude. The Blazers were way better than the Hawks and actually had players that can close games. It would have been over in 5.

[DMAVS41]

Ahhh yes, they did. Even with that signing, I still think losing Lance hurts more than the Rockets losing Parsons. The East isn't clear-cut anymore, there's going to be several teams competing for the 1-3 spots.

Yea. I agree.

I don't think the Rockets lose a ton with Ariza other than Parsons...it's the rest of the team that got gutted that will hurt.

[DMAVS41]

Blazers sucked (or were not elite) at defense too. No one is denying Houston is an offensive team through and through. Yeah they can score buckets but they give up way too many buckets... at least last season.

Their defense wasn't good enough to win the title...that is a lot different than them not being a better team than the Pacers.

Both the Blazers and Rockets would have destroyed the Pacers...especially the Blazers due to the matchups.

Defense matters, but so does offense. The Pacers had the worst ****ing offense in the league outside of the 76ers. That doesn't matter to you? The Rockets managed the 13th ranked defense despite playing in the West. Put them in the East and it would have been top 10. Not to mention the Pacers stopped playing elite level defense around the all-star break. Lets not pretend like they were playing the all time great defense in the playoffs that they were the first 2 months of the regular season.

[brantonli]

Blazers sucked (or were not elite) at defense too. No one is denying Houston is an offensive team through and through. Yeah they can score buckets but they give up way too many buckets... at least last season.

The Rockets picked up their game in the postseason. Problem is they did it after falling into a 2-0 hole against the Blazers. Even Harden actually manned up and played some decent defence for once.

[DMAVS41]

The Rockets picked up their game in the postseason. Problem is they did it after falling into a 2-0 hole against the Blazers. Even Harden actually manned up and played some decent defence for once.

It was a great series that could have gone either way.

Rockets honestly had some bad luck.

LA absolutely went off the first two games...and they lost game 1 in OT and then lost another really close one in game 2.

Then the Lillard shot as well. Even with a good look at is only about a 30% shot.

SCdac always does this...he puts no context whatsoever into anything he's arguing against. It's just..."Rockets lost in the first round"..."Pacers made the conference finals"

It's stupid.

[SCdac]

Of the 16 teams in the playoffs, stats taken during the playoffs only, Rockets played some of the worst if not the worst defense (#15 in defensive rating out of 16 teams) and that's verifiable through the eye test as well. Pacers finished in the top-5, and were #1 in the regular season. Small sample size but small sample size is what the playoffs is about. I agree the Pacers flamed out and had faults of their own (offense was shaky) but I'd take them in a series against Houston or Blazers. No need to get your panties in a wad over it

[brantonli]

^^ bad memories for me man. Seriously, what kind of playoff series has a team outscore the other team and still lose the series? When Parsons made that layup out of the scramble with just 0.9s to go, I was jumping out of my seat thinking Game 7 was on. Then Lillard goes ahead and sinks that dagger, form nearly the same spot as Brandon Roy did years ago too.

[SCdac]

playing the rockets last season was like a gift to offensive players

[DMAVS41]

Of the 16 teams in the playoffs, stats taken during the playoffs only, Rockets played some of the worst if not the worst defense (#15 in defensive rating out of 16 teams) and that's verifiable through the eye test as well. Pacers finished in the top-5, and were #1 in the regular season. Small sample size but small sample size is what the playoffs is about. I agree the Pacers flamed out and had faults of their own (offense was shaky) but I'd take them in a series against Houston or Blazers. No need to get your panties in a wad over it

LOL

Because it makes no sense. Imagine how much better the Rockets defense would have looked going against the Hawks and Wizards????

They had the 16th and 18th offenses respectively. The Blazers had the 2nd best offense in the league. The Rockets had the 4th best offense in the league.

Stop ignoring that!

The Pacers allowed the Heat to have a 118 ortg in their series. The one good team they faced...they got ass raped and their defense crumbled. The Heat weren't even as good as the Blazers offensively...or honestly the Rockets either.

Both Portland and Houston had 115 or so offensive ratings in their series.

What you are saying doesn't even hold up. The Pacers lost on defense....haha. Do you really not understand this? Stop acting like the Hawks or Wizards...two subpar offensive teams...posed real threats. The first time the Pacers played a real offensive team...they got destroyed....worse than the Rockets did by the Blazers actually.

So no...your points make no sense.



So could you explain to me how the Pacers defense makes them better when the Pacers got lit up worse than both the Rockets/Blazers did when playing each other...and both teams had better offenses on the year than the Heat?

In fact, both Charlotte and the Spurs defended the Heat better than the Pacers. And the Nets basically did the same...the vaunted Pacers defense did nothing of note in the playoffs. Why? Because it stopped being elite months before...and they played two poor offensive teams in the first 2 rounds. Put them agains elite offense like the Blazers and Rockets and they would have gotten destroyed.

[UK2K]

Blazers sucked (or were not elite) at defense too. No one is denying Houston is an offensive team through and through. Yeah they can score buckets but they give up way too many buckets... at least last season.
Right which is why Ariza is a much better fit for Houston thar Parsons ever was or will be.

[UK2K]

^^ bad memories for me man. Seriously, what kind of playoff series has a team outscore the other team and still lose the series? When Parsons made that layup out of the scramble with just 0.9s to go, I was jumping out of my seat thinking Game 7 was on. Then Lillard goes ahead and sinks that dagger, form nearly the same spot as Brandon Roy did years ago too.
Right.

Had Lillard missed that shot, game 7 was a win at home.

As bad as the Rockets played, their D game was as good as the Blazers B game.

[Milbuck]

Had Lillard missed that shot, game 7 was a win at home.

Sure it was.

[SCdac]

When the Blazers played a team that can actually play defense they got crushed. Lillard for example fell from 26 ppg/.47 FG% to 19 ppg/.41 FG% against the Spurs. Against the rockets, it's a free for all high scoring match, who can outscore who. So yes defense matters. Not knocking either team really just addressing reality.

[SCdac]

Right which is why Ariza is a much better fit for Houston thar Parsons ever was or will be.

I tend to agree, assuming Ariza maintains his defensive edge. I'm all for Houston becoming a team with a defensive identity. For their sake and Rockets fans sake I hope it happens.

[DMAVS41]

When the Blazers played a team that can actually play defense they got crushed. Lillard for example fell from 26 ppg/.47 FG% to 19 ppg/.41 FG% against the Spurs. Against the rockets, it's a free for all high scoring match, who can outscore who. So yes defense matters. Not knocking either team really just addressing reality.

The Pacers couldn't defend anyone!

The same Heat team that got shut down by your Spurs....absolutely raped the Pacers to the tune of a 118 offensive rating.

Please listen....

The Rockets offensive rating against the Blazers was 115.6
The Blazers offensive rating against the Rockets was 115.3

LOL...

Please stop ignoring that the Pacers not only sucked horribly on offense, but their defense fell off dramatically. You are just inflating your opinion of them by looking at the first two rounds against teams that weren't good. Teams that wouldn't even have sniffed the playoffs in the West.

The Blazers and Rockets were both top teams in the league. Your Spurs were just that good...and presented a terrible matchup for the Blazers. The Rockets would have given you guys a really good series actually. You would have still won, but it would have gone 6 or 7.

Does it really not strike you as odd that you are talking defense...when it was the Pacers that gave up the most on defense in the playoffs when facing an elite (borderline elite) offensive team in the Heat? Somehow the Pacers are immune to criticism when they give up an ortg of 118 to the Heat, but you laugh your ass off at the Blazers/Rockets giving up 115 respectively against better offenses played at a faster pace?

Logic dude...try to use it.

[Milbuck]

I tend to agree, assuming Ariza maintains his defensive edge. I'm all for Houston becoming a team with a defensive identity. For their sake and Rockets fans sake I hope it happens.
They will never, NEVER have a strong defensive identity so long as someone as negatively impactful on defense like James Harden is the face of the franchise and is on the floor for 36-40 mpg.

[DMAVS41]

They will never, NEVER have a strong defensive identity so long as someone as negatively impactful on defense like James Harden is the face of the franchise and is on the floor for 36-40 mpg.

Sure they could.

Beverly/Harden/Ariza/Taj/Howard would be a top 5 or defense in the league.

Not like the Rockets couldn't get a team like that together...they already have 4 of those players.

The offense would take a step back, but even with Harden playing historically bad defense, you put Taj Gibson next to Howard on this team and it would be close to elite defensively.

[UK2K]

I tend to agree, assuming Ariza maintains his defensive edge. I'm all for Houston becoming a team with a defensive identity. For their sake and Rockets fans sake I hope it happens.
They were 12th in Drtg last season.

They don't need to improve their defense a whole lot to be top 10. Ariza is enough now that Bev will be in his second season as a starter.

Jones is the big ?. He's got the hardest position to defend in the west.

[MVBallin2K]

Houston. I know the East is getting better now but I can still see the Pacers squeezing into the Playoffs.

Houston has a legitimate chance of making the Playoffs but with the West having so many loaded teams, I could easily see them not making it as well depending on what progress happens with guys like Harden. If their bench can produce too, that'll help. If not, they're basically what the Blazers were a few seasons ago, having no bench and relying on their starters to get everything done.

[DMAVS41]

Houston. I know the East is getting better now but I can still see the Pacers squeezing into the Playoffs.

Houston has a legitimate chance of making the Playoffs but with the West having so many loaded teams, I could easily see them not making it as well depending on what progress happens with guys like Harden. If their bench can produce too, that'll help. If not, they're basically what the Blazers were a few seasons ago, having no bench and relying on their starters to get everything done.

It will be interesting to see what else they add.

If Howard misses 20 games for some reason. I don't think they can make the playoffs as is.

It's going to take Harden/Howard beasting all season just to get in.

[ronnymac]

Our starting lineup really hasn't changed. infact jones will be better this season and Ariza pretty much replaces Parsons plus he is a better shooter, defender and rebounder.

Lin is not a big loss, but I feel losing Asik will be big. We will struggle when Dwight sits because we have no legit interior post defender/rebounder after him. Dorsey is a unknown right now.

[Number24]

Ahhh yes, they did. Even with that signing, I still think losing Lance hurts more than the Rockets losing Parsons. The East isn't clear-cut anymore, there's going to be several teams competing for the 1-3 spots.
After watching almost every game of the Pacers last season, still dumbfounded by the departure of Lance "so-big-an-impact" to the team. Or is it just me?:confusedshrug:

[roffie]

losing lance was bigger at least for houston they got ariza in return...

stuckey is not even close to the player lance is lol

[The JKidd Kid]

If we are talking individually then the Pacers are hurt more because they lose one of their main all handlers and the only guy on the team that can create his own shot not named Paul George. They also lose an elite defender, hustle guy and rebounder. The Rockets really aren't going to miss parsons because everything he does, Trevor Ariza can so just as well. However overall with the loss of Lin and Asik, Houston is going to be a lot worse off than the Pacers.

[kshutts1]

Well, Lance is the better player, and he was relied upon more than Parsons. So I have to say Lance.

Now, Lance vs Parsons, Asik, Lin, and it's obviously the latter. But that's not what OP asked for.