Replace Big 3 Era Lebron with Prime Kobe

[sportjames23]

Do the Heat win those not 1, not 2, not 3, not 4, not 5, not 6, but 7 rings?

[SOD 21]

The results would be about the same. It is hard to believe that a prime Kobe Bryant wouldn't win at least two championships with Dwayne Wade and Chris Bosh as teammates.

Heck, he went to three straight finals and won consecutive championships with Lamar Odom has his third-best player.

[GODbe]

5-peat, then 1 year of rest, and 5 peat again

[Trollsmasher]

0 Finals

[Fire Colangelo]

Who plays SF...?

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

2 titles maybe. Kobe would actually be a great fit on those Heat teams, because of his ability to play off-ball.

[imnew09]

The results would be about the same. It is hard to believe that a prime Kobe Bryant wouldn't win at least two championships with Dwayne Wade and Chris Bosh as teammates.

Heck, he went to three straight finals and won consecutive championships with Lamar Odom has his third-best player.

Couldn't have said it better :applause:

[Warfan]

Ill do it by year

2011 (2004 kobe): Down year and played horribly in the finals, but the Mavs obviously won't trouble him as much as Detroit did so ill give them the benefit of the doubt and the Heat win
2012 (2005 kobe): Dont make the finals IMO
2013 (2006 kobe): Kobe shits on fatfukk Diaw and they win
2014 (2007 kobe): Lose to the Spurs

So 2 rings and 3 finals appearances seems the most plausible IMO

[sweggeh]

No way. Maybe one ring, but Kobe and Wade are too similar. Plus then there is no one to defend 1 - 5 like Lebron, and Kobe isnt a good fit for a pressure defense playing small ball which was the Heats staple. They decrease defensively and the team doesnt mesh as well with Kobe instead of Lebron. I saw 1 final and 0 championships.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Maybe a ring in '11...Kobe+Wade duo is possibly even a worse fit than Lebron+wade

[GimmeThat]

maybe 1-2 ring.

I feel comfortable with the idea of Kobe guarding against the PG during his prime year.

assuming the make up of their role players would change.


you get a good coach.

[choppermagic]

5-peat, then 1 year of rest, and 5 peat again

Since when does Kobe just "rest"? he goes for Bill Russell's record of wins in a decade without taking a break and the NBA decides to break up the team into two in order to make the league fair again.

[dubeta]

Kobe can't score nearly as efficiently as lebron, worse rebounder, passer, and defense. Heck lebron has him beat considerably in every way

Plus lebron came up big in all the clutch games (game 6 v boston) and all the game 7's averaging like 33 and 11

Kobe is a notorious game 7 choker, quit in game 7 against suns and 6-24 in finals game 7

So no rings, and heat never get passed second round

[r15mohd]

do they make the finals?

the Heat defense takes a huge hit against teams like the Bulls and Celtics with Kobe on the squad over Lebron. :confusedshrug:

[DMAVS41]

they win in 2011 for sure.

12 and 13 are toss ups...the margin of error was so small those years that we can't really know much.

kind of like putting Lebron on the 02 Lakers...the margin against the Kings was just so slim that it's impossible to say anything with certainty.

if someone forced me to guess...here is how I think the 4 years would have gone with Kobe;

2011 - title
2012 - loss to Celtics
2013 - loss to Pacers
2014 - loss to Spurs

[NBAplayoffs2001]

Do the Heat win those not 1, not 2, not 3, not 4, not 5, not 6, but 7 rings?

He goes 4/4. Kobe has historically been dominant against the Spurs in the playoffs.

[Bandito]

Who plays SF...?
Who knows but we all know Wade wouldve been the PG and there are a lot of SF in the league today.

[PJR]

If Kobe would be willing to play for 10 million a year, so the Heat could have flexibility to get a real rim protector/center, than sure the Heat would've still prospered.

If we're talking about a straight swap, dollar for dollar? Nah. Miami would have to play completely differently to make it work. Kobe isn't making up for LeBron's versatility.

[Beastmode88]

5-peat, then 1 year of rest, and 5 peat again

what happened to kobe's second 3peat? :lol

[SamuraiSWISH]

2011 - Ring
2012 - Lose to Celtics
2013 - Ring
2014 - Lose to Spurs

[9erempiree]

They would be chasing their 5th title next season.

[TheMarkMadsen]

The heats 3rd option is better than Kobes 2nd option when he was in his 30s making 3 straight finals..

Old Kobe with Bosh & role players would have made 3-4 straight finals.

Add in wade & 5 rings isn't unreasonable

Add in prime Kobe and its a wrap.

06-09 Kobe wins in 11,12,13 & 14.

Bosh wouldn't be reduced to a spot up shooter, Bosh would have been the 2nd option putting up 19/9.

[9erempiree]

The heats 3rd option is better than Kobes 2nd option when he was in his 30s making 3 straight finals..

Old Kobe with Bosh & role players would have made 3-4 straight finals.

Add in wade & 5 rings isn't unreasonable

Add in prime Kobe and its a wrap.

06-09 Kobe wins in 11,12,13 & 14.

Bosh wouldn't be reduced to a spot up shooter, Bosh would have been the 2nd option putting up 19/9.

As long as Bosh moves without the ball he will get his because Mamba will be throwing oops at him all day with the triple team that Kobe commands.

[The Choken One]

Bosh wouldn't be reduced to a spot up shooter, Bosh would have been the 2nd option putting up 19/9.
This is one of the biggest things IMO. Bosh could of actually been a low post player.

[9erempiree]

This is one of the biggest things IMO. Bosh could of actually been a low post player.

Defense would play more honest because Kobe can shoot and has a perimeter game. They would not slack off and clog the pain, which in turn, disallows Bosh to post up.

So many things Kobe do that doesn't show up on score sheets.

Its a lock and going for their 5th.

[SamuraiSWISH]

Kobe struggles with physical Eastern Conference defenses. Particularly KG / Pierce's Celtics. He'd have a tough time in that 2012 ECF.

LeBron's superior athleticism, and physicality getting to the rim, along with Wade is why both those guys performed better against the mid 2000s Pistons, and early 2010s Celtic teams. Defenses Kobe really struggled with.

Prime Kobe plays better in 2013 v.s. the Spurs than Bron did. And the 2014 Heat supporting cast, even with prime Kobe isn't enough to win. He'd go down swinging in more of those games though shooting the pill.

[LBJ 23]

This is one of the biggest things IMO. Bosh could of actually been a low post player.


I just love this new myth that Lebron somehow made Bosh a spot up shooter and without Lebon there, Bosh would be some 25/10 post up player.

It has nothing to do with Bosh just not being comfortable playing down low(even he admitted that many times) be it on offense or defense or with the fact that he is a soft player. No. It has everything to do with Lebron.

I expect no less from Bosh than becoming a new Shaq down low in the post this year since Lebron is not there anymore to hold him back. Physical play against bigger centers won't bother him anymore and magically he will become a rebounding beast.

[Magic 32]

Kobe struggles with physical Eastern Conference defenses. Particularly KG / Pierce's Celtics. He'd have a tough time in that 2012 ECF.


Everyone struggled against the 04 Pistons and 08 Celtics.

No other team coming out of the east would be a problem for peak Kobe (06-08).

[SamuraiSWISH]

Everyone struggled against the 04 Pistons and 08 Celtics.
correction

2004 - 2006 Pistons:

Wade KILLED them in 2005.
Wade KILLED them in 2006.

2008 - 2012 Celtics:

LeBron had that 45 point game 7 pre-prime.
Wade KILLED them in 2010.
LeBron KILLED them in 2010 before quitting on Cleveland.
Wade / LeBron KILLED them in 2011.
LeBron put them in a box, and pissed on their grave in 2012.

Kobe was unlucky to face the peak of both all-time great defenses, and teams. But the 2012 Celtics were still very similar, and the #1 ranked defense.

Bryant struggles with the Eastern Conference gritty style, period. With that said, his skill set allowed him to flourish more v.s. the Spurs compared to LeBron.

[Rodmantheman]

one ring at max.

[Doranku]

Kobe struggles with physical Eastern Conference defenses. Particularly KG / Pierce's Celtics. He'd have a tough time in that 2012 ECF.

LeBron's superior athleticism, and physicality getting to the rim, along with Wade is why both those guys performed better against the mid 2000s Pistons, and early 2010s Celtic teams. Defenses Kobe really struggled with.

Prime Kobe plays better in 2013 v.s. the Spurs than Bron did. And the 2014 Heat supporting cast, even with prime Kobe isn't enough to win. He'd go down swinging in more of those games though shooting the pill.


Good joke. Past prime '12 Kobe with a washed up Gasol went 2-0 against the 2012 Celtics.

You put PRIME Kobe with Wade and Bosh? Forget about it.

[Jameerthefear]

Honestly they wouldn't win any.

[Magic 32]

correction

2008 - 2012 Celtics:


08 and 12 Celtics are worlds apart.



LeBron had that 45 point game 7 pre-prime.


Well, I don't have to show you the rest of his stats from that series.



Bryant struggles with the Eastern Conference gritty style, period.


I think this an over-exaggerated claim.

We never saw peak Kobe against the lesser teams coming out of the east.

He only played the best (08).

[SamuraiSWISH]

Good joke. Past prime '12 Kobe with a washed up Gasol went 2-0 against the 2012 Celtics.
LOL the 2011 Bulls went 3-1 v.s. the Heat in the REGULAR SEASON. Post season is a different monster entirely. A small sample size like that means nothing against consistent game plans against guys and their tendancies over the course of a series. Kobe struggles with elite Eastern Conference defenses. Always has.

[DMAVS41]

Good joke. Past prime '12 Kobe with a washed up Gasol went 2-0 against the 2012 Celtics.

You put PRIME Kobe with Wade and Bosh? Forget about it.

dude. come back to reality.

through the first 5 games in that series Lebron was averaging 32/10/4 56% TS and the Heat were down 2-3. Lebron ended up averaging 34/11/4 59% TS...LOL

Acting like Kobe for sure wins that series is laughable. If anything, the Celtics should be favored.

That was peak Lebron....dude was a beast. And they were still down on the verge of elimination...and Kobe is not a good elimination game player. His teams fold often.

[SamuraiSWISH]

08 and 12 Celtics are worlds apart.
In overall quality? Of course. Healthy KG, as opposed to prime Rondo. Younger Pierce, Allen, and Tony Allen off the bench. But strictly as a defense? They were both ranked 1st in the league. That's what they relied on by that point. Their offense was slowing down with age.


Well, I don't have to show you the rest of his stats from that series.
Like I said, pre-prime LeBron. Prime Kobe in 2008 didn't have a caliber game like that against them though in the Finals, now did he?

prime Kobe with younger Shaq in 2004 Finals:
23 ppg on 38%

pre-prime Wade with older Shaq in 2005 ECF v.s. near identical Pistons:
26 ppg on 44%

prime Wade with way older Shaq in 2006 ECF v.s. slightly worse Pistons:
27 ppg on 62%

[sportjames23]

No way. Maybe one ring, but Kobe and Wade are too similar. Plus then there is no one to defend 1 - 5 like Lebron, and Kobe isnt a good fit for a pressure defense playing small ball which was the Heats staple. They decrease defensively and the team doesnt mesh as well with Kobe instead of Lebron. I saw 1 final and 0 championships.

:coleman:

[Heavincent]

lol at bringing up the 2012 Celtics like they were some stacked super team. They were old as dirt and I don't how they even pushed that series to 7 games tbh. And the Pacers? :roll:

Are people forgetting that Kobe played in them much tougher Western conference? He didn't get any bye rounds, like the 76ers, Bucks, JV Bulls, or Bobcats. He was playing 50 win teams in the first round.

[DMAVS41]

lol at bringing up the 2012 Celtics like they were some stacked super team. They were old as dirt and I don't how they even pushed that series to 7 games tbh. And the Pacers? :roll:

Are people forgetting that Kobe played in them much tougher Western conference? He didn't get any bye rounds, like the 76ers, Bucks, JV Bulls, or Bobcats. He was playing 50 win teams in the first round.

Well, I'd argue the 12 Celtics were actually better than you are letting on...

And, it certainly wasn't Lebron's fault.

34/11/4 59% TS...and the Heat were on the brink of elimination with a road game 6.

To argue that Kobe just easily wins that series in place of Lebron is ****ing absurd and everyone with a brain that isn't beyond biased knows it.

[Magic 32]

Like I said, pre-prime LeBron. Prime Kobe in 2008 didn't have a caliber game like that against them though in the Finals, now did he?

Game 3 was pretty close.

45 points on 48% shooting (FG 14-29) vs. 36 points on 60% shooting (FG 12-20).

And Kobe took control of the game from the very beginning, and finished off the game as well (2 monster clutch shots).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWI7umzJ_7w

[9erempiree]

Give me the dominant scorer in Kobe than an efficient one like Lebron.

Miami gets over the hump with Kobe.

[crisoner]

80 peat

[SamuraiSWISH]

Game 3 was pretty close.

45 points on 48% shooting (FG 14-29) vs. 36 points on (FG 12-20).
Great game from Kobe
Legendary game from LeBron

It was not THAT close.

Plus game 7 pressure on road >>> Game 3 at home

I'm as unbiased as it comes when comparing these two. I'm telling it like it is, no real fandom interrupting. You have your bias, obviously.

[Heavincent]

Well, I'd argue the 12 Celtics were actually better than you are letting on...

And, it certainly wasn't Lebron's fault.

34/11/4 59% TS...and the Heat were on the brink of elimination with a road game 6.

To argue that Kobe just easily wins that series in place of Lebron is ****ing absurd and everyone with a brain that isn't beyond biased knows it.

It's also absurd to argue that Kobe didn't face any teams that were as good or better than those Celtics. You don't think Kobe ever put up monster series against really good teams?

Put up 34/8/7 52% FG against the 2010 Suns, who were loaded (prime Nash and Amare with elite shooters all over the court).

34/6/6 48% FG in 09 WCF

29/6/4 53% FG in 08 WCF against the defending champs (only needed 5 games to beat them too)

Those are just a few examples.

[Magic 32]

Legendary game from LeBron

It was close, not THAT close.



Legendary?

His team was trailing the entire game and he never seemed to have control over anything. His scoring looked like an extended version of what he did again the Spurs this year. And he was 1-4 in the last 4 min of the game.

Game 5 against Detroit was legendary, same with game 6 against Celtics in 2012.

A player needs to put up mind-blowing numbers to be "legendary" in defeat (Jordan's 63).

[SamuraiSWISH]

Legendary?
It's a hardwood classics game already. Just 6 years old.

[DMAVS41]

It's also absurd to argue that Kobe didn't face any teams that were as good or better than those Celtics. You don't think Kobe ever put up monster series against really good teams?

Put up 34/8/7 52% FG against the 2010 Suns, who were loaded (prime Nash and Amare with elite shooters all over the court).

34/6/6 48% FG in 09 WCF

29/6/4 53% FG in 08 WCF against the defending champs (only needed 5 games to beat them too)

Those are just a few examples.

When did I ever argue that?

All I said was that acting like it was a lock for Kobe to win that series in place of Lebron is silly.

Just like, for example, acting like it's a lock for Lebron to beat the 02 Kings in place of Kobe is silly. Even though Kobe's series wasn't all that impressive against the Kings to be honest. It's about the margin of error being extremely slim...which it was for the Heat in 12 against the Celtics...even with Lebron playing great.

I hear you Lakers fans all the time say other players couldn't have filled in for Kobe for the 3 peat...but how many series were they actually in danger of losing?

The 00 Blazers series and what else? The Kings...that's about it in those 3 years...right?

Well...take a look at Kobe's series in 02 against the Kings. 27/6/4 49% TS....on your logic...Lebron wins that series and every series easily in place of Kobe during the 3 peat.

Somehow I doubt you would just concede that...even though the arguments for that are a whole lot stronger than Kobe filling in for Lebron in 12.