Will you label Lebron the GOAT after he wins a ring for Cleveland?

[ekosky]

I will. Think about it..... for the city of Cleveland and its fans. Never sniffing a championship in their major sports for 50+ years, but as soon Lebron steps foot into the city again, it's damn near possible. It's good for the NBA as well. It's crazy how much impact Lebron has on the game, and the league.

hate him or not, but will you guys label Lebron the GOAT after 1 championship for his city? And most likely 1 season MVP as well... (almost a lock really)

[Roundball_Rock]

He will become the GOAT in the Cleveland metro area and maybe Ohio (how big are the Cavs in the Columbus and Cincy areas? Are they considered the home team?) but come on. No one can become the GOAT at age 30.

[INDI]

Did we label Kobe the Goat when he won a ring after Shaq??? You don't get extra kudos for doing what normal greats supposed to do. With that being said...

I would consider him top 5 with another ring

[BuffaloBill]

No.

[SpecialQue]

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-MQmXy-g7bHQ/U55YJiPhrAI/AAAAAAAAHmE/SxmlR-Ep7rk/s1600/leb.gif

[RoundMoundOfReb]

no.

[imdaman99]

He can be in the top 10 :cheers:

If he doesn't win with Cleveland, it's the ultimate disrespect to the Cleveland franchise and Ohio in general. He had a good shot at winning in his home state but he shitted on them on TV and made a joke out of them, only to win 2* rings with another team in the same conference. He comes back to try to win pathetic sympathy points and fools everyone into thinking he is legit...and doesn't win? :eek:

[dubeta]

Yes, easily

No one would have won with as little as lebron has in Cleveland

Lebron would basically be forced to win with a good pg in Irving and a 19 year old defender. Garbage crew but if he wins the ring top 2 GOAT at worst

[Dragic4Life]

Yes I will. In fact I already do.

[INDI]

Yes I will. In fact I already do.

You gotta be kidding me!!!! I'm not trying to start nothing with you but I would truly like to know how old you are? My assumption is that you are south of 20

[beastee]

He needs to win 2 in CLE to even be mentioned in the top 3. If he only wins one more for his career...sorry 3 is not enough. If he wins 2 and gets his average up to 4/7....then he can be top 3. But MJ and Russell are huge barriers to overcome. It will take a miracle at this point after blowing 2011 and 2014.

[Straight_Ballin]

I will. Think about it..... for the city of Cleveland and its fans. Never sniffing a championship in their major sports for 50+ years, but as soon Lebron steps foot into the city again, it's damn near possible. It's good for the NBA as well. It's crazy how much impact Lebron has on the game, and the league.

hate him or not, but will you guys label Lebron the GOAT after 1 championship for his city? And most likely 1 season MVP as well... (almost a lock really)

Buwhahahahahahahaha! :rolleyes: :facepalm :wtf: :hammerhead: :sleeping

Only on ISH would someone think that winning a ring on one of the many 13 NBA teams that have never won a championship is an automatic lock for GOAT.

Shit, the longest drought is not even the Cavs, it's the Kings who have not won the championship or even been to the NBA Finals since 1951!!

Seriously, wtf are you smoking?

[Straight_Ballin]

Yes I will. In fact I already do.

You don't know shit son. Bron's skills are receding faster than his hairline.

[INDI]

Would Kyrie or Wiggins/Love winning FMVP hurt Lebrons legacy?

[DaSeba5]

No he needs to win at least 5 rings for me to consider him the GOAT.

[DMAVS41]

The door on GOAT for Lebron closed after the 11 finals in the heart of his prime for me.

However, it has opened ever so slightly if the Cavs don't trade for Love...and Lebron leads the current Cavs roster without much of an overhaul in the next 6 years to 3 or 4 titles and plays great while doing so.

I'd imagine if he does that...I'll move him over everyone not named MJ...and he'd be in that discussion depending on his longevity beyond.

If Lebron plays like 20 years and wins 5 or 6 titles and 6 or 7 mvp's...yea, i'll put him in that GOAT conversation with MJ for me.

One title though? ROFL...he's not touching Duncan until he wins 2 more. Duncan won the 03 title with a Spurs team that is worse than the current Cavs. So...go for it Lebron. Win a title with this group right now this year or next...and you'll be on your way.

Duncan won with;

Parker
Manu
Stephen Jackson
Bowen
Malik Rose
David Robinson
Speedy

Parker wasn't nearly as good as Kyrie at that point of his career. Manu was a rookie and wasn't even close to himself yet. Robinson was 37 years old.

Have Lebron win with a roster like that and we'll talk about GOAT shit...

[NBAplayoffs2001]

The door on GOAT for Lebron closed after the 11 finals in the heart of his prime for me.

However, it has opened ever so slightly if the Cavs don't trade for Love...and Lebron leads the current Cavs roster without much of an overhaul in the next 6 years to 3 or 4 titles and plays great while doing so.

I'd imagine if he does that...I'll move him over everyone not named MJ...and he'd be in that discussion depending on his longevity beyond.

If Lebron plays like 20 years and wins 5 or 6 titles and 6 or 7 mvp's...yea, i'll put him in that GOAT conversation with MJ for me.

One title though? ROFL...he's not touching Duncan until he wins 2 more. Duncan won the 03 title with a Spurs team that is worse than the current Cavs. So...go for it Lebron. Win a title with this group right now this year or next...and you'll be on your way.

Duncan won with;

Parker
Manu
Stephen Jackson
Bowen
Malik Rose
David Robinson
Speedy

Parker wasn't nearly as good as Kyrie at that point of his career. Manu was a rookie and wasn't even close to himself yet. Robinson was 37 years old.

Have Lebron win with a roster like that and we'll talk about GOAT shit...

For me its also the 2007 finals. There were a few close games and he had some clutch airball freethrows :facepalm

[Beastmode88]

never ever forget 2011. :lol :lol

[Milbuck]

He's either gotta beat MJ in accolades or abilities. Considering MJ was just the better overall basketball player..I don't understand how people can consider Lebron the GOAT after 4-5 rings. He needs atleast 6, 7 to seal it.

You don't just brush off 2007 and 2011.

[Lebronxrings]

skills wise- hes already the undisputable GOAT, due to how great and overall player he is. He can pass, rebound, and play much better defense then jordan. Jordan only had scoring as an advantage over lebron. We also have to factor in how much tougher todays games are. Especially in the east, defense is played a hell of alot tighter then mgay ever experienced, meaning no easy layups.

OT, if lebron wins a ring, yes he would be considered the GOAT and should be. Right now, his team is complete garbage and basically d league status. Winning over stacked teams like spurs, okc, bulls would be a tremendous achievement.

[IamRAMBO24]

No question about it if he wins 4 more.

[lilgodfather1]

Top 5.

[guy]

but come on. No one can become the GOAT at age 30.

:oldlol: of course you would say this :rolleyes:

[coin24]

So 3/6 is better than 6/6 in bran stans eyes??:lol :lol

[The Choken One]

3/6 > 6/6????????????/

lolok.jpg

[played0ut]

No. But i will be genuinely happy for him respect him more.

[Done_And_Done]

Yes I will. In fact I already do.

No you don't...

[G.O.A.T]

I think if he gets to five as the man in his prime) he enters the conversation for everyone capable of objectivity.

Could be sooner though, a historic season a la Shaq '00 or Wilt '67 could catapult him, the guy has the potential and that's pretty exciting.

[sportjames23]

Why do some of you nikkas want to crown Bran GOAT if he does this or that? That ship done sailed long ago.

[beastee]

We also have to factor in how much tougher todays games are. Especially in the east, defense is played a hell of alot tighter then mgay ever experienced, meaning no easy layups.

Boy, we don't see your bias. This is possibly the worst explanation I have ever read to try and push the Lebron agenda. All you have done is exposed the fact that you don't know shit about late 80's and early 90's basketball and the absolute grind playing against that physical brand of ball was. You would be much better talking about Lebron's body and size and how dominant he is against a league of string beans like Durant and PG. :facepalm

[jimmy77x]

skills wise- hes already the undisputable GOAT, due to how great and overall player he is. He can pass, rebound, and play much better defense then jordan. Jordan only had scoring as an advantage over lebron. We also have to factor in how much tougher todays games are. Especially in the east, defense is played a hell of alot tighter then mgay ever experienced, meaning no easy layups.

OT, if lebron wins a ring, yes he would be considered the GOAT and should be. Right now, his team is complete garbage and basically d league status. Winning over stacked teams like spurs, okc, bulls would be a tremendous achievement.

http://media.giphy.com/media/Ic97mPViHEG5O/giphy.gif

[Roundball_Rock]

:oldlol: of course you would say this :rolleyes:

It is theoretically possible but who in basketball history has ever compiled a resume that >>>> everyone else by age 30?

[Real Men Wear Green]

A ring is a ring and no one cares where you won it. It will be special for him and the city of Cleveland so if he pulls it off good for them but we've seen enough of James to know he is not going to surpass Jordan. Even if rings are the only thing that matters to you you are talking about one ring that would put him at three while MJ has 6 and (if you are only caring about rings) Russell has 11.

[JT123]

So 3/6 is better than 6/6 in bran stans eyes??:lol :lol
MJ had the GOAT coach and much better teammates. Context is your friend. :cheers:

[rmt]

skills wise- hes already the undisputable GOAT, due to how great and overall player he is. He can pass, rebound, and play much better defense then jordan. Jordan only had scoring as an advantage over lebron. We also have to factor in how much tougher todays games are. Especially in the east, defense is played a hell of alot tighter then mgay ever experienced, meaning no easy layups.

OT, if lebron wins a ring, yes he would be considered the GOAT and should be. Right now, his team is complete garbage and basically d league status. Winning over stacked teams like spurs, okc, bulls would be a tremendous achievement.

You must be joking. Obviously, you didn't watch the NBA during the 90s when they didn't have hand checking rule. And you aren't playing attention if you don't know that the West is MUCH tougher than the East. Lebron has it easy in the East - why do you think his only choices were MIA and CLE - can't take a chance in the brutal West.

[Ai2death]

http://www.threadbombing.com/data/media/2/neggedopcommunitylol.gif

[Soundwave]

I don't think it really makes a difference, a championship is a championship, location doesn't matter. That's just media played nonsense.

Jordan brought the city of Chicago it's first championship of any kind in like 50+ years and Chicago is a huge, world class city.

3 chips does not make you GOAT, especially three non-consecutive ones.

You have to have at least 5 titles IMO to even break the top 3 anymore, anything less does not get you into that club period.

[RedBlackAttack]

A championship in Cleveland will mean more than him winning one anywhere else, but the GOAT ship hath sailed. Let LeBron just be LeBron. Most people agree on the GOAT and it isn't changing anytime soon.

http://i58.tinypic.com/dbo0oy.png

[Roundball_Rock]

Jordan brought the city of Chicago it's first championship of any kind in like 50+ years and Chicago is a huge, world class city.

These guys did it in MJ's first year in Chicago:

http://flapship.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/super-bowl-shuffle.jpg

[Soundwave]

These guys did it in MJ's first year in Chicago:

http://flapship.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/super-bowl-shuffle.jpg

Forgot about that, I thought there was some big fuss about the Bulls '91 title being Chicago's first in a long time, guess that was just for the Bulls franchise.

I know the Blackhawks went like 60 years without a Cup until recently.

Location of rings is stupid either way, the people in Cleveland don't "deserve" anything anymore than fans in Milwuakee or Golden State or Utah or Philly or in Clipper land or Knicks fans, etc. etc. Plenty of franchises have suffered for decades without championships, why should one be more special than the others?

[sportjames23]

MJ had the GOAT coach and much better teammates. Context is your friend. :cheers:


And yet, when MJ retired, they didn't win without him.

Context, amigo.

[Roundball_Rock]

Forgot about that, I thought there was some big fuss about the Bulls '91 title being Chicago's first in a long time, guess that was just for the Bulls franchise.

I know the Blackhawks went like 60 years without a Cup until recently.

Location of rings is stupid either way, the people in Cleveland don't "deserve" anything anymore than fans in Milwuakee or Golden State or Utah or Philly or in Clipper land or Knicks fans, etc. etc. Plenty of franchises have suffered for decades without championships, why should one be more special than the others?

I agree. It can only help make you a local GOAT, i.e. LeBron could be considered the GOAT in Ohio if he wins in Cleveland or if a player ever wins again in NY they could be viewed as the GOAT there. This applies only to players who are GOAT-caliber. Since when you get to that level the gap between players is so small, homers could construct a rationale to elevate you. I could see LeBron being the Ohio GOAT with 3 rings and 5 MVP's (Ohio does have 11.6 million people). To get in the national conversation 4 rings and 5 MVP's are a minimum. If he finishes with 5-6 rings and 6-7 MVP's he likely will wind up considered the GOAT by the general public.



And yet, when MJ retired, they didn't win without him.

Context, amigo.

Let's see if the Heat in 15' can be as strong as the Bulls were in 94'. :cheers: The Heat replaced Deng with an all-star caliber SF; the Bulls replaced MJ with a D-Leaguer. If they replaced him with Hornacek...(Krause did not make the trade with PHI because he wanted to keep a first round pick that turned out to be Dickey Simpkins :facepalm ).

[Soundwave]

I agree. It can only help make you a local GOAT, i.e. LeBron could be considered the GOAT in Ohio if he wins in Cleveland or if a player ever wins again in NY they could be viewed as the GOAT there. This applies only to players who are GOAT-caliber. Since when you get to that level the gap between players is so small, homers could construct a rationale to elevate you. I could see LeBron being the Ohio GOAT with 3 rings and 5 MVP's (Ohio does have 11.6 million people). To get in the national conversation 4 rings and 5 MVP's are a minimum. If he finishes with 5-6 rings and 6-7 MVP's he likely will wind up considered the GOAT by the general public.



Let's see if the Heat in 15' can be as strong as the Bulls were in 94'. :cheers: The Heat replaced Deng with an all-star caliber SF; the Bulls replaced MJ with a D-Leaguer. If they replaced him with Hornacek...(Krause did not make the trade with PHI because he wanted to keep a first round pick that turned out to be Dickey Simpkins :facepalm ).

The difference there is Pippen, Grant (who doesn't get as much credit as he should), Armstrong, etc. were all in their prime all in their 20s and they were also adding Kukoc who was the best player in Europe, who was in his 20s too. Had Jordan played that year that probably would've been the most talented iteration of any of the 90s Bulls.

That's different from Wade being 33 and having bum knees and Bosh being 30/31.

If Wade was 27/28, I have no doubt the Heat would do very well. They may do very well anyway, it really depends on his knees.

[fpliii]

The difference there is Pippen, Grant (who doesn't get as much credit as he should), Armstrong, etc. were all in their prime all in their 20s and they were also adding Kukoc who was the best player in Europe, who was in his 20s too. Had Jordan played that year that probably would've been the most talented iteration of any of the 90s Bulls.

That's different from Wade being 33 and having bum knees and Bosh being 30/31.

If Wade was 27/28, I have no doubt the Heat would do very well. They may do very well anyway, it really depends on his knees.
Wade's bum knees have been an issue the past few seasons as well, so what's the difference if they're still bad next year? I don't see how that's relevant.

Shame, dude was such a beast.

[Roundball_Rock]

The difference there is Pippen, Grant (who doesn't get as much credit as he should), Armstrong, etc. were all in their prime all in their 20s and they were also adding Kukoc who was the best player in Europe, who was in his 20s too. Had Jordan played that year that probably would've been the most talented iteration of any of the 90s Bulls.

That's different from Wade being 33 and having bum knees and Bosh being 30/31.

If Wade was 27/28, I have no doubt the Heat would do very well. They may do very well anyway, it really depends on his knees.

They were the most stacked team of all-time just a month ago. #noexcuses :pimp:

Bosh will be 30 next year. 27-30 are usually the peak years for a basketball player. Wade will be 33 and has knee problems, but they were in the Finals with him just last year. Wade put up 19/5/5 on 55% in 2014 and 21/5/5 in 2013 so while he is past his prime he is hardly washed up.

It is a legitimate point that Pippen, Grant were 28 and Armstrong 26 but the Bulls also had the worst starting SG in the league (Myers could not even make a NBA roster as a 12th man the previous two years) and an ancient starting C on his last legs (he would retire after 94'). The Heat found a two-time all-star to replace MJ. Deng will be 29 so he, like Bosh, is right in his peak years. He was an all-star in 2013 and 2012.

So Bosh will be 30, Deng 29, Wade 33. That isn't an ancient core, two players are at peak age, and all three have substantial playoff experience. They also upgraded at PG. While Napier won't do much, he has potential to match rookie Kukoc's production (11/4/3).

No excuses!

[Soundwave]

They were the most stacked team of all-time just a month ago. #noexcuses :pimp:

Bosh will be 30 next year. 27-30 are usually the peak years for a basketball player. Wade will be 33 and has knee problems, but they were in the Finals with him just last year.

It is a legitimate point that Pippen, Grant were 28 and Armstrong 26 but the Bulls also had the worst starting SG in the league. The Heat found a two-time all-star to replace MJ. Deng will be 29 so he, like Bosh, is right in his peak years. He was an all-star in 2013 and 2012.

So Bosh will be 30, Deng 29, Wade 33. That isn't an ancient core and all three have substantial playoff experience. They also upgraded at PG. While Napier won't do much, he has potential to match rookie Kukoc's production (11/4/3).

No excuses!

If Wade's knees are healthy they are probably the best team in the East alongside Cleveland. If they're not, then what can you do? You can't "will" yourself past a knee injury, basketball doesn't work like that.

If you are the no.2 option, you can "hide" a knee problem better, but if your no.1 option has bad knees, that's not a recipe for success on any team IMO. I don't care who the player is.

The '94 Bulls had a legit 4 double-digit scoring options basically every night (Pippen, Kukoc, Grant, Armstrong), all of them in their 20s, scoring wasn't as big of an issue as its made out to be.

[fpliii]

They were the most stacked team of all-time just a month ago. #noexcuses :pimp:

Bosh will be 30 next year. 27-30 are usually the peak years for a basketball player. Wade will be 33 and has knee problems, but they were in the Finals with him just last year.

It is a legitimate point that Pippen, Grant were 28 and Armstrong 26 but the Bulls also had the worst starting SG in the league. The Heat found a two-time all-star to replace MJ. Deng will be 29 so he, like Bosh, is right in his peak years. He was an all-star in 2013 and 2012.

So Bosh will be 30, Deng 29, Wade 33. That isn't an ancient core and all three have substantial playoff experience. They also upgraded at PG. While Napier won't do much, he has potential to match rookie Kukoc's production (11/4/3).

No excuses!
Pretty much. We're going to learn a lot about what LeBron was working with, depending on whether Miami booms or busts next year.

[dubeta]

Rings arent the only criteria

Bird is top 5 with 3 rings and wilt is top 6 with 2 rings

No rational fan puts kobe in the top 10 even with 5 rings because we all know how pathetic he was throughout

So 3 with lebron, and a championship to cleveland would make him GOAT easily

3 rings 3 FMVP 5 MVP and career leader in PER

No debate

[RedBlackAttack]

They were the most stacked team of all-time just a month ago. #noexcuses :pimp:

Bosh will be 30 next year. 27-30 are usually the peak years for a basketball player. Wade will be 33 and has knee problems, but they were in the Finals with him just last year. Wade put up 19/5/5 on 55% in 2014 and 21/5/5 in 2013 so while he is past his prime he is hardly washed up.

It is a legitimate point that Pippen, Grant were 28 and Armstrong 26 but the Bulls also had the worst starting SG in the league (Myers could not even make a NBA roster as a 12th man the previous two years) and an ancient starting C on his last legs (he would retire after 94'). The Heat found a two-time all-star to replace MJ. Deng will be 29 so he, like Bosh, is right in his peak years. He was an all-star in 2013 and 2012.

So Bosh will be 30, Deng 29, Wade 33. That isn't an ancient core, two players are at peak age, and all three have substantial playoff experience. They also upgraded at PG. While Napier won't do much, he has potential to match rookie Kukoc's production (11/4/3).

No excuses!
I actually think they'll be damn good if Wade can somehow stay healthy. Obviously, that's a big "if."

Deng runs like an 80-year-old lady, btw. I don't care what his age is... he's past his physical prime. I watched him limp through the final 30 games last year and it was honestly painful.

They should still be good.

[DukeDelonte13]

Bernie Kosar is treated like a god like figure in Cleveland. I could only imagine how Lebron would be regarded if he won a chip.

[Roundball_Rock]

Bernie Kosar is treated like a god like figure in Cleveland. I could only imagine how Lebron would be regarded if he won a chip.

:lol why? Didn't Kosar only have a few good years?

RBA and DukeDelonte, how popular are the Cavs in Ohio outside of the Cleveland area? I assume they are still considered the home team in Columbus. What about Cincinnati, though? Are the Cavs the "home" team there or the Pacers?

Yeah, I personally think the Heat will be 4th-6th place and lose in the first round. They will be competitive but LeBron's impact will be revealed. I can't see the Heat doing better than CHI, CLE, IND and WAS, TOR, ATL, BKN would all have legitimate chances at doing better than them as well. The most likely scenarios are 4th-6th. The 94' Bulls are the exception that proves the rule regarding losing GOAT caliber players.

[Soundwave]

:lol why? Didn't Kosar only have a few good years?

RBA and DukeDelonte, how popular are the Cavs in Ohio outside of the Cleveland area? I assume they are still considered the home team in Columbus. What about Cincinnati, though? Are the Cavs the "home" team there or the Pacers?

Yeah, I personally think the Heat will be 4th-6th place and lose in the first round. They will be competitive but LeBron's impact will be revealed. I can't see the Heat doing better than CHI, CLE, IND and WAS, TOR, ATL, BKN would all have legitimate chances at doing better than them as well. The most likely scenarios are 4th-6th.

If Wade is healthy they are better than those all of those teams with maybe the exception of Cleveland and Chicago (which also depends on DRose's knee, lol).

Lots of issues with knee problems in the East, that will determine how things play out.

If Wade and Rose are healthy, then its Clevand/Miami/Chicago as the three real contenders in the East, everyone else is a pretender.

[(e)]

skills wise- hes already the undisputable GOAT, due to how great and overall player he is. He can pass, rebound, and play much better defense then jordan. Jordan only had scoring as an advantage over lebron. We also have to factor in how much tougher todays games are. Especially in the east, defense is played a hell of alot tighter then mgay ever experienced, meaning no easy layups.

OT, if lebron wins a ring, yes he would be considered the GOAT and should be. Right now, his team is complete garbage and basically d league status. Winning over stacked teams like spurs, okc, bulls would be a tremendous achievement.
Someone who obviously never watched Jordan.

And no. 3 for 6 doesn't come close to Jordan's 6 for 6. Lebron would seriously have to win 4 in a row at this point for me to even consider putting him in the same breath as the GOAT.

[Dengness9]

JT123 and Dragic4life(sillk) are trolls.

Don't worry about them.

Lebron will never be the GOAT. Like Attack said, just let him be himself and he'll end up near the top most likely.

[Roundball_Rock]

How do you define "healthy"? I am assuming the Wade of 2015 will be the Wade of 2012-2014. He will miss some games but it should be noted the Heat did fine without him when they still had LeBron and Bosh. So they should be able to stay afloat for the 20-30 games he misses and then do better when he does play.


If Wade and Rose are healthy, then its Clevand/Miami/Chicago as the three real contenders in the East, everyone else is a pretender.

Writing off the Pacers without Lance? I think the Pacers will be comparable to the Heat and one of Toronto, Washington, or Atlanta will break into the top group. The Raptors were on a 55 win pace after the Gay trade, Washington should improve with more experience and adding Pierce and Atlanta was 3rd in the East I believe before Horford went down.

[RedBlackAttack]

:lol why? Didn't Kosar only have a few good years?

RBA and DukeDelonte, how popular are the Cavs in Ohio outside of the Cleveland area? I assume they are still considered the home team in Columbus. What about Cincinnati, though? Are the Cavs the "home" team there or the Pacers?

Yeah, I personally think the Heat will be 4th-6th place and lose in the first round. They will be competitive but LeBron's impact will be revealed. I can't see the Heat doing better than CHI, CLE, IND and WAS, TOR, ATL, BKN would all have legitimate chances at doing better than them as well. The most likely scenarios are 4th-6th. The 94' Bulls are the exception that proves the rule regarding losing GOAT caliber players.
The Cavs are very popular regionally... NE Ohio. That's why LeBron specifically phrased it that way in his essay. It's not like Cleveland and Akron and Youngstown and Canton are all looked at as total separate entities. They're all very close geographically and considered the same general area for those who live there... It's all NE Ohio.

As for the Cavs, I'd actually say they've taken over the Indians in terms of popularity in the region. That wasn't always the case. Even back in the mid-90s when both the Cavs and Indians were competing for playoffs and conference titles and pennants, the Indians were the bigger draw.

Still, nothing touches the Browns. If the Browns ever won the Super Bowl, the whole region may just spontaneously combust.


Columbus is basically one giant college town. Down there, it's all Ohio State, all the time. I'm not saying they don't care about professional sports, but OSU comes first in football, basketball and everything else.

SE Ohio (ie Cincinnati) is like a different state all together... I haven't spent a ton of time down that way so I'm not the best one to remark on it, but I consider it more Kentucky than Ohio, tbh. Different rooting interests, much more conservative, more rural, etc.

I don't know if you'll be more confused or less confused after reading that. :oldlol:

[Roundball_Rock]

Thanks. Yeah, him saying "NE Ohio" versus "Ohio" is what raised the question for me.

[beastee]

So 3 with lebron, and a championship to cleveland would make him GOAT easily

No debate
http://i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb394/Nikooo042/1191763_o.gif

[Dragic4Life]

You gotta be kidding me!!!! I'm not trying to start nothing with you but I would truly like to know how old you are? My assumption is that you are south of 20
I'm a 32 year old high rank officer in a prestigious firm. Unlike most of ISH trolls I actually have a career.

[I<3NBA]

If he wins 12 rings, yes.

[guy]

It is theoretically possible but who in basketball history has ever compiled a resume that >>>> everyone else by age 30?

Cut the crap man. Anyone that knows your agenda knows you wrote this cause Jordan was widely considered the GOAT by his first retirement at age 30.

A lot of people especially the media don't always refer to someone as the GOAT just based on their total resume. A lot of times they do it just based off their peak play, which can be assessed even at a young age. Players like Jordan, Bird, and Wilt all got this kinda treatment.

[unknowns8]

nope

:biggums:

needs to win multiple rings with cleveland to achieve that

:coleman:

[DukeDelonte13]

:lol why? Didn't Kosar only have a few good years?

RBA and DukeDelonte, how popular are the Cavs in Ohio outside of the Cleveland area? I assume they are still considered the home team in Columbus. What about Cincinnati, though? Are the Cavs the "home" team there or the Pacers?

Yeah, I personally think the Heat will be 4th-6th place and lose in the first round. They will be competitive but LeBron's impact will be revealed. I can't see the Heat doing better than CHI, CLE, IND and WAS, TOR, ATL, BKN would all have legitimate chances at doing better than them as well. The most likely scenarios are 4th-6th. The 94' Bulls are the exception that proves the rule regarding losing GOAT caliber players.

Cavs w/ Lebron --> popular across ohio

Cavs w/out Lebron --> not popular across ohio.

I got the impression there weren't so many NBA fans down in southern Ohio. NFL and college sports are more popular. You got a smattering of Pacers, Cavs, Lakers, and Big 3 Heat bandwagoners.

[LeBird]

However, it has opened ever so slightly if the Cavs don't trade for Love...and Lebron leads the current Cavs roster without much of an overhaul in the next 6 years to 3 or 4 titles and plays great while doing so.

If Lebron plays like 20 years and wins 5 or 6 titles and 6 or 7 mvp's...yea, i'll put him in that GOAT conversation with MJ for me.

One title though? ROFL...he's not touching Duncan until he wins 2 more. Duncan won the 03 title with a Spurs team that is worse than the current Cavs. So...go for it Lebron. Win a title with this group right now this year or next...and you'll be on your way.

Duncan won with;

Parker
Manu
Stephen Jackson
Bowen
Malik Rose
David Robinson
Speedy

Parker wasn't nearly as good as Kyrie at that point of his career. Manu was a rookie and wasn't even close to himself yet. Robinson was 37 years old.

Have Lebron win with a roster like that and we'll talk about GOAT shit...

I always took you for a pretty serious poster, but this shit is trolling.

Did Jordan win with an understrength team? Nope.
Did he win 6-7 MVPs? Nope.
Did Jordan win with a team like Duncan's? Nope.

So how is Jordan the GOAT for achieving none of that? :rolleyes:

[BlazerRed]

No. 6 > 3.

[GimmeThat]

I'd put him right next to and/or ahead of Larry Bird after he wins a ring for Cleveland

[Roundball_Rock]

Cavs w/ Lebron --> popular across ohio

Cavs w/out Lebron --> not popular across ohio.

I got the impression there weren't so many NBA fans down in southern Ohio. NFL and college sports are more popular. You got a smattering of Pacers, Cavs, Lakers, and Big 3 Heat bandwagoners.

Thanks for the insight. :cheers:


A lot of people especially the media don't always refer to someone as the GOAT just based on their total resume. A lot of times they do it just based off their peak play, which can be assessed even at a young age.

Yet MJ stans daily claim LeBron "must" win some convenient number of rings (usually 7 is the chosen number, because as we all know the record for rings won is 6)?

[JtotheIzzo]

I will. Think about it..... for the city of Cleveland and its fans. Never sniffing a championship in their major sports for 50+ years, but as soon Lebron steps foot into the city again, it's damn near possible. It's good for the NBA as well. It's crazy how much impact Lebron has on the game, and the league.

hate him or not, but will you guys label Lebron the GOAT after 1 championship for his city? And most likely 1 season MVP as well... (almost a lock really)

LeBron will never be GOAT because he never went it alone, he never built anything, he rigged the system to fast track championships and won less than he should have, and to be GOAT so many things have to fall into place. LeBron will be top ten, but he doesn't have the necessary resume to be GOAT.

[FPJ]

He needs at least one with the Cavs and one with the Knicks. Not even Jordan could win with these Knicks :oldlol: .

[Dragic4Life]

He will end his career with a comfortable 6 rings don't worry.

Dude hasn't even hit his peak yet.

[pastis]

lebron left a good heat team and joins a more talened cleveland team. if love comes this year....or next year, lebron and the cavs HAVE to win the chip...or biggest bust.


if he wins it in cleveland the next 2 years, he will enter the top 20.

[DMAVS41]

I always took you for a pretty serious poster, but this shit is trolling.

Did Jordan win with an understrength team? Nope.
Did he win 6-7 MVPs? Nope.
Did Jordan win with a team like Duncan's? Nope.

So how is Jordan the GOAT for achieving none of that? :rolleyes:

How is Jordan the GOAT?

Because he's just an objectively better basketball player than Lebron. Didn't choke in the finals. Didn't have numerous playoff meltdowns...etc.

LOL...

The point is that the ship has sailed for Lebron getting to GOAT status in a normal way like MJ did. He's going to have to go ball out in a crazy dominant way like Duncan in 03 and lead an average team to the title.

My point was that something like that might get him back into the conversation.

Lebron can't get into the conversation just by slowly building a better resume. He has to do something super special.

You can't just get there after 2011...too many blemishes on Lebron's legacy...and in order to overshadow those...something crazy special has to happen.

One of those things would be Lebron leading this current Cavs team to a title this year...would potentially be more impressive than Duncan in 03 and would go a long long way.

Sorry, it's not trolling to say this. It's the truth...

[Anaximandro1]

- Jordan, Russell, Wilt and Kareem are untouchable

- Duncan and Shaq are significantly better than LeBron.


Duncan , two-way dominance, has the best combination of offense/defense in the post Jordan era, never lost a Finals series in his prime years.

Shaq lacks defense, but greatest offensive player in the post Jordan era


Context - High USG%, heavy minutes

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-mLiNl9HEA3Y/U858AETaSJI/AAAAAAAADZ8/iSLqESHewlM/s1600/1.jpg



LeBron and Kobe had some of the worst final performances of all time


Context - High USG%, heavy minutes

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-ooHFovZQKoY/U858AIUMAAI/AAAAAAAADaA/o9WeNdaEaDY/s1600/2.jpg

[riseagainst]

no. It is that simple. No arguments for it.

[sportjames23]

He will end his career with a comfortable 6 rings don't worry.

Dude hasn't even hit his peak yet.


10-11 years in the league and he hasn't hit his peak yet? Are you serious?

:facepalm

[sportjames23]

I always took you for a pretty serious poster, but this shit is trolling.

Did Jordan win with an understrength team? Nope.
Did he win 6-7 MVPs? Nope.
Did Jordan win with a team like Duncan's? Nope.

So how is Jordan the GOAT for achieving none of that? :rolleyes:


I don't know who's the bigger unhinged hater between you and Roundball_Rock. :facepalm

[Dragic4Life]

10-11 years in the league and he hasn't hit his peak yet? Are you serious?

:facepalm
Yes Lebron deliberately time it so that he'll peak in Cleveland with Love, Kyrie and Bennett.

[guy]

Yet MJ stans daily claim LeBron "must" win some convenient number of rings (usually 7 is the chosen number, because as we all know the record for rings won is 6)?

No one reasonable actually thinks that. Most people think he should get to that given that he has good amount teams. There are extreme positions on both sides. Some people set the bar too high and think he should get there regardless of the teams around him. This argument thats applied to him and great players in general is ridiculous. At the same time though, other people too often act like alot of great players don't get the chance to actually rack up that many titles due to the situation, despite the fact that most great players do get to play on a great team for an extended period at some point of their career. (For example: someone like Barkley is sometimes given the excuse that he didn't have enough help, even though he played multiple years on contending teams in each of Philly, Phoenix, and Houston.) Its very rare a great player plays under a GM that is THAT incompetent for that long. They also too often understate how instrumental great players can be in making their situation better (helping their teammates get better, getting on the same page with the coach, etc).

Jordan had something like 7-8 years on contending teams capable of winning a title and he won 6. Lebron has already had 4-5 years on contending teams capable of winning a title and he won 2, and its highly doubtful he won't get another 2-4 years on contending teams at this point of this career (by the way, lets not act like Lebron shouldn't already have more given 2011). So most people assume that he will get that, so to say he should get many more titles isn't an unreasonable expectation.

Either way, regardless of resume/titles, its never too soon to say a player is the GOAT based on peak/prime play like what people were saying about Jordan when he retired, and players like Bird and Wilt before him. This treatment probably won't happen for Lebron anytime soon though just cause of how bad 2011 was.