Has there ever been a more dominant run than 2009-2014 LeBron?

[ekosky]

4x MVP
2x Championships
2x Finals MVP
6x All-NBA First Team
6x NBA All-Star
5x All-Defensive First Team
4x ECF Championships
4x Finals Appearances

:eek:

Talk about pure domination.

[russwest0]

LeBron stans showing their lack of NBA history knowledge

[Dragic4Life]

Closest probably will be Shaq.

Three of the greatest alphas in the history of NBA along with MJ.

[LoneyROY7]

Blake Griffin 2015-2020.

[Fudge]

Closest probably will be Shaq.

Three of the greatest alphas in the history of NBA along with MJ.
Top 3 greatest players in NBA history. :applause:

GO LEBRON!!

[Dragic4Life]

Top 3 greatest players in nba history. :applause:
Fudge coming round finally.:cheers: :applause:

[tpols]

rofl.. abandons his home team for another top 3 player's team.

Goes 2 for 4 in the Finals...

Was completely punked by Dallas in 2011. Punked by SAS in 2013 but a miracle shot saved him.. punked again in 2014 by a role player winning FMVP over him while he safely padded his numbers to deflect blame before jumping ship.. again.


Competed for MVPs with Dwight Howard Derrick Rose, and kevin durant as his best competition.. if he was in the 80s hed be fighting Larry Bird, Magic johnson, KAJ, Isiah Thomas, in the 90s MJ, Barkley, D-Rob, Ewing, Pippen, in the 2000s Shaq, Kobe, duncan, Garnett, Dirk.

Even in one of the weaker eras he still got punked.

[Dragic4Life]

BUNCH OF BS
tl:dr

[imnew09]

most beta run ever.

Ditching from left to right.

[T_L_P]

Duncan 99-05

2x MVP
3x Championships
3x Finals MVP
6x All-NBA First Team
5x All-Star (no game in '99)
0x Outplayed by Jason Terry

And this was against Shaq, Kobe, Garnett, Dirk. Not Paul George and Paul Pierce. :eek:

[Soundwave]

40% in the Finals is like almost 50%. Which is like almost 60%. That's right around 70%. Which isn't far behind 80%.

I know when I think dominance I think 40% winning.

[Dragic4Life]

Duncan 99-05

2x MVP
3x Championships
3x Finals MVP
6x All-NBA First Team
5x All-Star (no game in '99)
0x Outplayed by Jason Terry

And this was against Shaq, Kobe, Garnett, Dirk. Not Paul George and Paul Pierce. :eek:
I think I can safely say for the rest of my life my top 5 will be as followed:

MJ
Russell
Lebron
Magic
Duncan

[ekosky]

40% in the Finals is like almost 50%. Which is like almost 60%. That's right around 70%. Which isn't far behind 80%.

I know when I think dominance I think 40% winning.
He's actually 50% in that span, genius. :facepalm Which is still great.

[T_L_P]

I think I can safely say for the rest of my life my top 5 will be as followed:

MJ
Russell
Lebron
Magic
Duncan

Honestly not a bad list.

Do you have beef with Kareem though?

[Dragic4Life]

Honestly not a bad list.

Do you have beef with Kareem though?
2 FMVP is pretty decent, then I found out he won a total of 6 rings lol. Not dominant enough to be in the top 5. Don't get me wrong, he's top 8/10 for sure.

[BigBoss]

4x MVP
2x Championships
2x Finals MVP
6x All-NBA First Team
6x NBA All-Star
5x All-Defensive First Team
4x ECF Championships
4x Finals Appearances

:eek:

Talk about pure domination.

lol at ECF and Finals Appearances as accomplishments.
Regular season MVP is a joke these days.


It's more like

.5 rings. ( lock out season cuts one in half. Colluding takes another half out X 2)
1 finals MVP( see above)

Great resume Lebron. Real legendary stuff there.

[russwest0]

Duncan 99-05
0x Outplayed by Jason Terry

http://i.imgur.com/iinlNSM.gif

[ekosky]

No other legit responses. Fitting.

Most dominant run by a player ever.... And it's still going. :oldlol:

[NBAplayoffs2001]

Duncan 99-05

2x MVP
3x Championships
3x Finals MVP
6x All-NBA First Team
5x All-Star (no game in '99)
0x Outplayed by Jason Terry

And this was against Shaq, Kobe, Garnett, Dirk. Not Paul George and Paul Pierce. :eek:
:lol
:cheers: well played sir

[3ball]

1991-1998 ----> two 3-peats... 6 Finals MVP's.


1991 - 33ppg, 11 assists, 7 rebs, 54% shooting, Switch-Hands Shot
http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/Jordan_over_Perkins_5e9173876f441a2f4792c5b13bc081 2b.gif


1992 - He Didn't Know How He Was Dominating So Much
http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/Jordan_Shrug_3259f019925f89d0b38af9a541eba934.gif


1993 - 41ppg (Finals Record)
http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/Jordan_over_defenders_in_Final_5ace7152199370ef1a7 bbf2800592a58.gif


1996 - Averaged 32ppg on 47% shooting thru 3 games to go up 3-0 and End Series
http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/Jordan_Hangtime_Jumper_on_offb_12e8ad28b619d87d7ad fef991e4158c1.gif


1997 - Game 1 GW, Flu Game, GW Assist to Kerr
http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/1997_Finals_Flu_Game_Jordan_a8995f3cc9cacb412fdb53 7af22c1245.gif


1998 - Pippen and Rodman MIA, Jordan Backpacks It By Himself the Entire Series (at 35)
http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/Jordan_GOAT_Final_Shot_1d27acc3354a339adacd2c511bc 0ed72.gif

[NBAplayoffs2001]

1991-1998 ----> two 3-peats... 6 Finals MVP's.


1991 - 33ppg, 11 assists, 7 rebs, 54% shooting, Switch-Hands Shot
http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/Jordan_over_Perkins_5e9173876f441a2f4792c5b13bc081 2b.gif


1992 - He Didn't Know How He Was Dominating So Much
http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/Jordan_Shrug_3259f019925f89d0b38af9a541eba934.gif


1993 - 41ppg (Finals Record)
http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/Jordan_over_defenders_in_Final_5ace7152199370ef1a7 bbf2800592a58.gif


1996 - Jordan averaged 32ppg on 47% shooting thru 3 games to go up 3-0
http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/Jordan_Hangtime_Jumper_on_offb_12e8ad28b619d87d7ad fef991e4158c1.gif


1997 - Game 1 GW, Flu Game, GW Assist to Kerr
http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/1997_Finals_Flu_Game_Jordan_a8995f3cc9cacb412fdb53 7af22c1245.gif


1998 - Pippen and Rodman MIA, Jordan Backpacks It By Himself the Entire Series (at 35)
http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/Jordan_GOAT_Final_Shot_1d27acc3354a339adacd2c511bc 0ed72.gif

Man the aesthetic beauty he bought to the game along with dominating :bowdown: . Kobe 24 was very similar for me too in the same manner but not to this extent.

[SouBeachTalents]

4x MVP
2x Championships
2x Finals MVP
6x All-NBA First Team
6x NBA All-Star
5x All-Defensive First Team
4x ECF Championships
4x Finals Appearances

:eek:

Talk about pure domination.

Jordan from 1991-98 has that beat

4x MVP
6 Championships
6x Finals MVP
6x All-NBA First Team
6x All-Star
6x All-Defensive First Team
6x scoring champ

[JohnFreeman]

TLP has turned into a hater.

[dubeta]

Think about it, in 4 years (09-13) lebron basically eclipsed Kobe's entire career

[TheMan]

Jordan from 1991-98 has that beat

4x MVP
6 Championships
6x Finals MVP
6x All-NBA First Team
6x All-Star
6x All-Defensive First Team
6x scoring champ
GOAT run:applause:

[Doranku]

Duncan 99-05

2x MVP
3x Championships
3x Finals MVP
6x All-NBA First Team
5x All-Star (no game in '99)
0x Outplayed by Jason Terry

And this was against Shaq, Kobe, Garnett, Dirk. Not Paul George and Paul Pierce. :eek:
:roll:

[Soundwave]

Duncan 99-05

2x MVP
3x Championships
3x Finals MVP
6x All-NBA First Team
5x All-Star (no game in '99)
0x Outplayed by Jason Terry


http://i.minus.com/iWkaQ45Nwf4br.gif

[Dragic4Life]

Fkin' sick of these trolls posting gif to something that is unfunny and untrue.:facepalm

[Brokenbeat]

Jordan from 1991-98 has that beat

4x MVP
6 Championships
6x Finals MVP
6x All-NBA First Team
6x All-Star
6x All-Defensive First Team
6x scoring champ


This is how it's really done. :applause: :bowdown:

[Soundwave]

Fkin' sick of these trolls posting gif to something that is unfunny and untrue.:facepalm

C'mon son, laugh once in a while. It's fun.

[Dragic4Life]

C'mon son, laugh once in a while. It's fun.
I will NEVER laugh at a ridiculous statement like "0x Outplayed by Jason Terry".

NEVER.

[Milbuck]

Fkin' sick of these trolls posting gif to something that is unfunny and untrue.:facepalm
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/--ekR6jG4Iwk/Tw4zvKN4RCI/AAAAAAAAAn0/IX-VBCUOUvs/s1600/didnt-read-lol-chicken-gif.gif

[StephHamann]

I will NEVER laugh at a ridiculous statement like "0x Outplayed by Jason Terry".

NEVER.

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/423/672/667.gif

[masonanddixon]

Got dominated in 2 Finals (humiliated in one of them), dominated in the ECSF and ECF, had to team up with 2 superstars all in their prime (absolutely pathetic)...so no.

[SexSymbol]

Lost to a worse team in 09.
Quit on his team in 10
quit on his team in another historic choke job in 11
finally won against so so competition in 12
east was a cakewalk, got bailed out in the finals in 13
quit on his team in the finals against the same team, worst margin of victory ever in nba history.

So yeah, pretty much every run was better

[deja vu]

Outscored by Jason Terry. :lol

[Roundball_Rock]

2 FMVP is pretty decent, then I found out he won a total of 6 rings lol. Not dominant enough to be in the top 5. Don't get me wrong, he's top 8/10 for sure.

He was robbed of one FMVP in 80'.


lol at ECF and Finals Appearances as accomplishments.
Regular season MVP is a joke these days.

It beats losing earlier.


1998 - Pippen and Rodman MIA, Jordan Backpacks It By Himself the Entire Series (at 35)

:roll: at MJ fans acting like MJ won by himself in 98' when Pippen provided dominant defense in the first four games (3 of CHI's wins) before his back gave out. Rodman also was key in guarding Malone (Harper guarded Stockton. MJ took Hornacek.). The fact is, try as they might, MJ stans can never point to MJ "doing it by himself." When he had little help, he had no results.


LeBron is being underrated due to bias that will fade over time. LeBron's prime and peak are right up there with anyone else's.

[Soundwave]

He was robbed of one FMVP in 80'.



It beats losing earlier.



:roll: at MJ fans acting like MJ won by himself in 98' when Pippen provided dominant defense in the first four games (3 of CHI's wins) before his back gave out. The fact is, try as they might, MJ stans can never point to MJ "doing it by himself." When he had little help, he had no results.


LeBron is being underrated due to bias that will fade over time. LeBron's prime and peak are right up there with anyone else's.

The saddest Bulls fan there ever was chimes in again.

Bran is not underrated, like Kobe was 4-5 years ago he's basking actually in the limelight of his prime and is overhyped. Too bad he blew 2 of his 4 chances at a ring in the process.

Once you see him broken and old as his career goes on, his legacy will come into a more obvious focus, just like we look at Kobe now and no one in their right mind seriously has him in their top 3-4 other than hardcore Kobe stans.

A player's career always looks better as they're in their 20s. When you see them progress into their 30s, a more reality based view sets in.

But 4 years ago? A lot of talk that Kobe could equal Jordan.

Not so f*cking easy is it?

In the future no one will give a crap because the forum will probably be overrun by Wiggins Stans or whoever the new flavor of the week is.

[JtotheIzzo]

Wiggins' Cavs

[I<3NBA]

forgive OP. OP was born after the Jordan years.

[Roundball_Rock]

LeBron is on another level than Kobe. LeBron's floor essentially is being top 5 all-time and a lot of people fail to grasp that. If LeBron retires with 3 rings, 5 MVP's, and given his peak and prime play can you name 5 players who would be over him all-time? LeBron can make any team he is on automatic contenders (not necessarily strong contenders but contenders nonetheless). How many players can say that? That is how dominant he is. It also says something about how the general public perceives him (they don't care about the nit-picking that hardcore fans like ISH'ers engage in) that a 33 win team is the favorite in Vegas with him joining.

Miami collapsing despite replacing him with a 2x all-star will also enhance his legacy.

[Soundwave]

LeBron is on another level than Kobe. LeBron's floor essentially is being top 5 all-time and a lot of people fail to grasp that. If LeBron retires with 3 rings, 5 MVP's, and given his peak and prime play can you name 5 players who would be over him all-time? LeBron can make any team he is on automatic contenders (not necessarily strong contenders but contenders nonetheless). How many players can say that? That is how dominant he is. It also says something about how the general public perceives him (they don't care about the nit-picking that hardcore fans like ISH'ers engage in) that a 33 win team is the favorite in Vegas with him joining.

Miami collapsing despite replacing him with a 2x all-star will also enhance his legacy.

Lets see him earn it rather than gifting it to him first. It was supposed to be "not four, not five, not six" in Miami, right? How'd that work out?

Since you love the Miami "collapsing" narrative, wouldn't it be fairer to also compare Wade and Pippen at the same age -- 33?

Pippen joined the Rockets with Barkley and Olajuwon, and despite your excuses to say he was injured, he played every single game that season and logged the most minutes for the Rockets.

The result of this "dream team"? First round exit and an average regular season record.

[poido123]

LeBron is on another level than Kobe. LeBron's floor essentially is being top 5 all-time and a lot of people fail to grasp that. If LeBron retires with 3 rings, 5 MVP's, and given his peak and prime play can you name 5 players who would be over him all-time? LeBron can make any team he is on automatic contenders (not necessarily strong contenders but contenders nonetheless). How many players can say that? That is how dominant he is. It also says something about how the general public perceives him (they don't care about the nit-picking that hardcore fans like ISH'ers engage in) that a 33 win team is the favorite in Vegas with him joining.

Miami collapsing despite replacing him with a 2x all-star will also enhance his legacy.



Did MJ run over your cat or something???

F.ck this dude :facepalm

[Roundball_Rock]

Lets see him earn rather than gifting it to him first.

Of course. Still, if LeBron decided to retire tomorrow he still has 4 MVP's, 2 rings. Even right now he is top 10 all-time and has a case over Kobe, Hakeem, Duncan, Magic, Shaq, and Bird. Not a great case over all of them but he legitimately could be argued over any of that group. He has played for 11 years. Magic played for 12 total and Bird 13. Wilt, KAJ, MJ, and Russell are in another tier from him right now.


Since you love the Miami "collapsing" narrative, wouldn't it be fairer to also compare Wade and Pippen at the same age -- 33?


Pippen joined the Rockets with Barkley and Olajuwon, and despite your excuses to say he was injured, he played every single game that season and logged the most minutes for the Rockets.

What relevance does this have? Pippen lost his athleticism after that 98' back injury. Anyone who watched basketball back then knows that. Barkley and Hakeem also were past their prime. BTW since when is the #4 seed an average record? They went 31-19, same as the Shaq Lakers (a 51 win pace and the lockout hurt older teams like Houston).

Wade is past his prime but he did post 19/5/5 on 55% last year. No one expects 2009 Wade to return but he presumably can match his 14' production next year since he has not gotten hurt in the interim. Bosh is 30 and Deng 29 so both of them are right in their peak ages. They improved at PG, a huge weakness for them, and shored up their bench with Granger and McRoberts. There is no excuse for them to not be elite next year. Moreover, sometimes teams can mitigate the loss of a legend via team play (i.e. if a ball hog leaves they can offset some of the loss via enhanced ball movement). LeBron detractors have steadfastly maintained that LeBron has held Wade and Bosh back. If this is true, they should see improved performance absent LeBron next year. There is some evidence to suggest that in Bosh's case. He did average 23 ppg when LeBron was out during the "Big 3" years.


ginally Posted by Roundball_Rock
LeBron is on another level than Kobe. LeBron's floor essentially is being top 5 all-time and a lot of people fail to grasp that. If LeBron retires with 3 rings, 5 MVP's, and given his peak and prime play can you name 5 players who would be over him all-time? LeBron can make any team he is on automatic contenders (not necessarily strong contenders but contenders nonetheless). How many players can say that? That is how dominant he is. It also says something about how the general public perceives him (they don't care about the nit-picking that hardcore fans like ISH'ers engage in) that a 33 win team is the favorite in Vegas with him joining.

Miami collapsing despite replacing him with a 2x all-star will also enhance his legacy.



Did MJ run over your cat or something???

F.ck this dude

Where was Mike mentioned in the above?

[poido123]

Of course. Still, if LeBron decided to retire tomorrow he still has 4 MVP's, 2 rings. Even right now he is top 10 all-time and has a case over Kobe, Hakeem, Duncan, Magic, Shaq, and Bird. Not a great case over all of them but he legitimately could be argued over any of that group. He has played for 11 years. Magic played for 12 total and Bird 13. Wilt, KAJ, MJ, and Russell are in another tier from him right now.





What relevance does this have? Pippen lost his athleticism after that 98' back injury. Anyone who watched basketball back then knows that. Barkley and Hakeem also were past their prime. BTW since when is the #4 seed an average record? They went 31-19, same as the Shaq Lakers (a 51 win pace and the lockout hurt older teams like Houston).

Wade is past his prime but he did post 19/5/5 on 55% last year. No one expects 2009 Wade to return but he presumably can match his 14' production next year since he has not gotten hurt in the interim. Bosh is 30 and Deng 29 so both of them are right in their peak ages. They improved at PG, a huge weakness for them, and shored up their bench with Granger and McRoberts. There is no excuse for them to not be elite next year. Moreover, sometimes teams can mitigate the loss of a legend via team play (i.e. if a ball hog leaves they can offset some of the loss via enhanced ball movement). LeBron detractors have steadfastly maintained that LeBron has held Wade and Bosh back. If this is true, they should see improved performance absent LeBron next year. There is some evidence to suggest that in Bosh's case. He did average 23 ppg when LeBron was out during the "Big 3" years.



Where was Mike mentioned in the above?


Don't take it from me.


Ask anyone here how obvious and determined you are to minimize Jordan's impact.

Go on, I dare you to ask posters on here if they see your clear pippen bias :rolleyes:

[GimmeThat]

I think what he's got going for him, is that his body type appears to be capable of Karl Malone type longevity

and he's putting up a resume better than Malone during his prime.

[Beastmode88]

Fkin' sick of these trolls posting gif to something that is unfunny and untrue.:facepalm

So he didn't get outplayed by jason terry?

[Dragic4Life]

So he didn't get outplayed by jason terry?
No he didn't.

[Roundball_Rock]

Don't take it from me.


Ask anyone here how obvious and determined you are to minimize Jordan's impact.

Go on, I dare you to ask posters on here if they see your clear pippen bias :rolleyes:

It is true I have not always been pro-MJ but what does that have to do with this thread? What is wrong with a Pippen bias? Are all Bulls fans supposed to have a Jordan bias? I also have a bias in favor of Shaq, Rose, and KAJ. Is that wrong?

LeBron's impact is the subject here and LeBron's impact is comparable to that of any player in history. The Heat will confirm that next year.

Terry had 18/2/3; LeBron had 18/7/7. How did Terry outplay LeBron?

[Jacks3]

lol heat are probably winning around 50 games next year.

[choppermagic]

2 FMVP is pretty decent, then I found out he won a total of 6 rings lol. Not dominant enough to be in the top 5. Don't get me wrong, he's top 8/10 for sure.

Hold on a second. You are downranking Kareem because you just found out that he won MORE rings than you thought he did.

Lebron was being outplayed by role players in 2 of his Finals and bailed on two teams. And how dominant was he that the rules have been shifted in his favour, as opposed to Wilt having rules changed to stop him from embarrassing other teams (ex. no dunking free throws)?

[riseagainst]

Hold on a second. You are downranking Kareem because you just found out that he won MORE rings than you thought he did.

Lebron was being outplayed by role players in 2 of his Finals and bailed on two teams. And how dominant was he that the rules have been shifted in his favour, as opposed to Wilt having rules changed to stop him from embarrassing other teams (ex. no dunking free throws)?

he's trolling or just a huge lebron stan.....

[DMAVS41]

LeBron is on another level than Kobe. LeBron's floor essentially is being top 5 all-time and a lot of people fail to grasp that. If LeBron retires with 3 rings, 5 MVP's, and given his peak and prime play can you name 5 players who would be over him all-time? LeBron can make any team he is on automatic contenders (not necessarily strong contenders but contenders nonetheless). How many players can say that? That is how dominant he is. It also says something about how the general public perceives him (they don't care about the nit-picking that hardcore fans like ISH'ers engage in) that a 33 win team is the favorite in Vegas with him joining.

Miami collapsing despite replacing him with a 2x all-star will also enhance his legacy.

I agree that Lebron is amazing, but his floor is not top 5 all time.

Can I name 5 players that do all you say? Sure...

1. MJ
2. Russell
3. Magic
4. Duncan
5. Kareem

Lebron has done nothing on the court or over his career to date to make me think he's any better than those guys. And guys like Shaq, Bird, Hakeem, and Wilt...are still right there as well.

I agree with a lot of what you say, but I think his floor is like top 11 or so of all time. Not top 5...

[mehyaM24]

for a perimeter player? absolutely not.

hell, from 2011-14, nobody has had more playoff winshares than lebron.

bron '11-14: 4.7 winshares
jordan '90-93: 4.1 winshares

:rockon:

[kshutts1]

Don't take it from me.


Ask anyone here how obvious and determined you are to minimize Jordan's impact.

Go on, I dare you to ask posters on here if they see your clear pippen bias :rolleyes:
A "clear Pippen bias" is not the same thing as trying to minimize Jordan.

Big difference between Jordan being an absolute God that did everything correctly, never missed a shot, always made the right play (ISH view), and the real view of.. he had a TON of help from arguably the greatest team of all time, and Jordan was still a top 5-10 player ever.

I hope you can see that difference. I don't think Roundball or whatever his name is is trying to imply that Jordan is below the top 5-10 players ever, but rather, that he gets sick of the narrative that Jordan was a God that did everything right all of the time and did it all by himself. Just like I do.

[Roundball_Rock]

I agree that Lebron is amazing, but his floor is not top 5 all time.

Can I name 5 players that do all you say? Sure...

1. MJ
2. Russell
3. Magic
4. Duncan
5. Kareem

Lebron has done nothing on the court or over his career to date to make me think he's any better than those guys. And guys like Shaq, Bird, Hakeem, and Wilt...are still right there as well.

I agree with a lot of what you say, but I think his floor is like top 11 or so of all time. Not top 5...

I meant in terms of resume. Who the better player was is more subjective. if LeBron has 5 MVP's and 3 rings his resume eclipses Magic's and Duncan's (unless you are heavily weighting rings but in that case Kobe>Wilt). Magic only played for 12 years and Bird 13. LeBron will be in year 12 next year. Longevity will be a mark in his favor, barring injury.


A "clear Pippen bias" is not the same thing as trying to minimize Jordan.

Big difference between Jordan being an absolute God that did everything correctly, never missed a shot, always made the right play (ISH view), and the real view of.. he had a TON of help from arguably the greatest team of all time, and Jordan was still a top 5-10 player ever.

I hope you can see that difference. I don't think Roundball or whatever his name is is trying to imply that Jordan is below the top 5-10 players ever, but rather, that he gets sick of the narrative that Jordan was a God that did everything right all of the time and did it all by himself. Just like I do.


If I weren't at work I would insert the Rock gif here! :applause:

Exactly. You are a Pippen fan too if I recall correctly. Why are they shocked that we are tired of MJ being painted as a god who won by himself? These people then turn around and inflate Wade but Pippen was more important to Chicago than Wade was to the 12' and 13' Heat.

[kshutts1]

I meant in terms of resume. Who the better player was is more subjective. if LeBron has 5 MVP's and 3 rings his resume eclipses Magic's and Duncan's (unless you are heavily weighting rings but in that case Kobe>Wilt). Magic only played for 12 years and Bird 13. LeBron will be in year 12 next year. Longevity will be a mark in his favor, barring injury.



If I weren't at work I would insert the Rock gif here! :applause:

Exactly. You are a Pippen fan too if I recall correctly. Why are they shocked that we are tired of MJ being painted as a god who won by himself? These people then turn around and inflate Wade but Pippen was more important to Chicago than Wade was to the 12' and 13' Heat.

Yeah I am a Pippen fan. Started watching in '94. Modeled my game after his, though I never got good at it, lol. Never liked Jordan because I felt that his stardom took away from Pippen, but I always respected and appreciated Jordan. He's in my first tier of all time players.

[DMAVS41]

I meant in terms of resume. Who the better player was is more subjective. if LeBron has 5 MVP's and 3 rings his resume eclipses Magic's and Duncan's (unless you are heavily weighting rings but in that case Kobe>Wilt). Magic only played for 12 years and Bird 13. LeBron will be in year 12 next year. Longevity will be a mark in his favor, barring injury.



If I weren't at work I would insert the Rock gif here! :applause:

Exactly. You are a Pippen fan too if I recall correctly. Why are they shocked that we are tired of MJ being painted as a god who won by himself? These people then turn around and inflate Wade but Pippen was more important to Chicago than Wade was to the 12' and 13' Heat.


Yea...I don't do my rankings like that and think it's silly just to add up MVP's and titles. So I can't really comment.

I can say...I'd take peak/prime Duncan over Lebron. Duncan's intangibles and leadership and team first example. I'd take Duncan in the playoffs over Lebron...etc.

So it's going to take more than 1 season of Lebron winning a title and MVP to move him over Duncan for me. It's going to take some absurd longevity...and continued high impact play.

[Roundball_Rock]

Yeah I am a Pippen fan. Started watching in '94. Modeled my game after his, though I never got good at it, lol. Never liked Jordan because I felt that his stardom took away from Pippen, but I always respected and appreciated Jordan. He's in my first tier of all time players.

Basically the same story here. :cheers: Yet they think us Pippen fans are closet fans of another player (for years MJ stans would call me a closet Kobe stan). After MJ and Shaq, Pippen probably was the most popular player of the 90's so it should not be a surprise that there are several Pippen fans posting here. It also should not be surprising that Pip fans recoil at the "MJ did it by himself" narrative--especially when the evidence of Pippen's importance is so compelling.


Fair enough, DMavs. A lot of posters go by resume but I agree resume should only be a factor in ranking players. However, for the resume crowd LeBron has a top 5 floor most likely, assuming at least 1 more ring and MVP and longevity.

[Blue&Orange]

rofl.. abandons his home team for another top 3 player's team.

Goes 2 for 4 in the Finals...

Was completely punked by Dallas in 2011. Punked by SAS in 2013 but a miracle shot saved him.. punked again in 2014 by a role player winning FMVP over him while he safely padded his numbers to deflect blame before jumping ship.. again.


Competed for MVPs with Dwight Howard Derrick Rose, and kevin durant as his best competition.. if he was in the 80s hed be fighting Larry Bird, Magic johnson, KAJ, Isiah Thomas, in the 90s MJ, Barkley, D-Rob, Ewing, Pippen, in the 2000s Shaq, Kobe, duncan, Garnett, Dirk.

Even in one of the weaker eras he still got punked.
Dominant post :applause:

[GODbe]

Most recent ones were Leonards, Wades, Dirks, Ray Allen, even Jason Terry/Diaw. Bosh, Mike Miller, Battier are arguable.

[Dragonyeuw]

Big difference between Jordan being an absolute God that did everything correctly, never missed a shot, always made the right play (ISH view), and the real view of.. he had a TON of help from arguably the greatest team of all time, and Jordan was still a top 5-10 player ever.



I don't think the Bulls were particularly loaded moreso than the other top teams of that era. The Blazers, Suns, Knicks, Sonics, Magic, Jazz were all comparable talent-wise and a few even more talented from top to bottom. Once you get past Pippen and Grant, or Pippen and Rodman, it was interchangeable role players. Jordan was pretty much the difference maker between a very good team and GOAT level team. I will say, though, that I'm a big Pippen fan as well and I'm tired of the 'Jordan was perfect' narrative myself. I do think he's in the discussion for GOAT, along with 3-4 others who I think have great cases depending on the criteria. But I've never been one to think he's in a completely separate tier from people like Kareem, Wilt, Russell, Bird, Magic.

[Roundball_Rock]

. The Blazers, Suns, Knicks, Sonics, Magic, Jazz were all comparable talent-wise and a few even more talented from top to bottom.

Would any of those teams nearly win the #1 seed without their best player and have their second best player become the MVP of the conference (if the NBA did it like MLB)? The Bulls without MJ won more games than the Jazz, won one less than the Suns, won seven more than the Blazers, and took the Knicks to the limit and were probably robbed in that series. Yeah, in raw talent they weren't the best every year but they were the best on the court. If you look at raw talent then last year the Clippers were the best team followed by the Thunder and Rockets, not the Spurs. The Bulls had leadership, they had defense, they had PJ coaching, they had a system that worked. That offset some of the talent advantages of other teams. The Suns didn't last long due to injuries. The Sonics were chronic undearchievers outside of 96'. The Magic broke up after 2 years as contenders. The Blazers were notorious for their poor basketball IQ.

If you throw a GOAT-caliber player on a team like that the result is domination. That is what happened. If MJ was tacked onto a 0.500 team it would be a different story. He would improve them and win a ring or 2 but they wouldn't become a dynasty.

[magnax1]

Would any of those teams nearly win the #1 seed without their best player and have their second best player become the MVP of the conference (if the NBA did it like MLB)? The Bulls without MJ won more games than the Jazz, won one less than the Suns, won seven more than the Blazers, and took the Knicks to the limit and were probably robbed in that series. Yeah, in raw talent they weren't the best every year but they were the best on the court. If you look at raw talent then last year the Clippers were the best team followed by the Thunder and Rockets, not the Spurs. The Bulls had leadership, they had defense, they had PJ coaching, they had a system that worked. That offset some of the talent advantages of other teams. The Suns didn't last long due to injuries. The Sonics were chronic undearchievers outside of 96'. The Magic broke up after 2 years as contenders. The Blazers were notorious for their poor basketball IQ.
What was the bulls record without rose in 12? And how far did they get without him in the playoffs? What about westbrook?

[Roundball_Rock]

What was the bulls record without rose in 12? And how far did they get without him in the playoffs? What about westbrook?

The Bulls went 45-37 in 2013 after having the best record in the league the previous two years. You are citing stretches of a season. That is different and teams can cope with that on occasion. Could they do it for an entire season? The Bulls were solid in 12' without Rose but folded promptly in the first round (1-4 without him). Since then they have went 45-37, 48-34. With him they were the #1 team in the league (62 wins in 11' and the same pace over 82 games in 12' and 67 win pace with Rose).

It is stunning how the Knicks are cited as MJ's top competition and people ignore the minor fact that the Bulls without MJ were the Knicks equal in the RS and the playoffs. Of course when you add MJ he would beat that "competition." :hammerhead:

[dannywpt]

He was the most dominant flopper of the post-collusion era, even though CP3 had his moments in the spotlight

[kshutts1]

I don't think the Bulls were particularly loaded moreso than the other top teams of that era. The Blazers, Suns, Knicks, Sonics, Magic, Jazz were all comparable talent-wise and a few even more talented from top to bottom. Once you get past Pippen and Grant, or Pippen and Rodman, it was interchangeable role players. Jordan was pretty much the difference maker between a very good team and GOAT level team. I will say, though, that I'm a big Pippen fan as well and I'm tired of the 'Jordan was perfect' narrative myself. I do think he's in the discussion for GOAT, along with 3-4 others who I think have great cases depending on the criteria. But I've never been one to think he's in a completely separate tier from people like Kareem, Wilt, Russell, Bird, Magic.
The Bulls WITHOUT JORDAN were on the level of those teams you mentioned. That's what I'm referring to.

And Pippen with Grant/Rodman is a very nice 1/2. Then add in how well the other players fill their roles (mixing the two teams here).. Paxson, Armstrong, Kerr, Kukoc, Wennington, Longley, Harper, Cartwright, Beuchler... all of those players filled their roles nearly perfectly, similar to the Spurs of today, while being coached by a top 5 coach of all time.

All things considered? That collection of talent, even without Jordan, would be contending for titles from probably '93 through '98, if all else stayed the same. Not necessarily winning them, but contending for them. Jordan took a great team and made it transcendent just as, I suspect, most any top 10-15 player would have done. Not trying to diminish Jordan here, just being real.

[Roundball_Rock]

The Bulls WITHOUT JORDAN were on the level of those teams you mentioned. That's what I'm referring to.

And Pippen with Grant/Rodman is a very nice 1/2. Then add in how well the other players fill their roles (mixing the two teams here).. Paxson, Armstrong, Kerr, Kukoc, Wennington, Longley, Harper, Cartwright, Beuchler... all of those players filled their roles nearly perfectly, similar to the Spurs of today, while being coached by a top 5 coach of all time.

All things considered? That collection of talent, even without Jordan, would be contending for titles from probably '93 through '98, if all else stayed the same. Not necessarily winning them, but contending for them. Jordan took a great team and made it transcendent just as, I suspect, most any top 10-15 player would have done. Not trying to diminish Jordan here, just being real.

:applause:

This is a key FACT:


The Bulls WITHOUT JORDAN were on the level of those teams you mentioned. That's what I'm referring to.

Yet we have people going around saying 6/6, "6 rings" 24/7 acting as if every player enjoyed such an advantageous situation. Even the Lakers without Magic became a 43-39 first round team. Put any GOAT-caliber player on those teams and you would see approximately similar results.

[dubeta]

LeBron surpassed Kobe's 18 year career in 4 years how does that feel?

[Dragic4Life]

LeBron surpassed Kobe's 18 year career in 4 years how does that feel?
Well if Kobe didn't have prime/peak Shaq, he probably won't even have a career to speak of.

[mehyaM24]

The Bulls WITHOUT JORDAN were on the level of those teams you mentioned. That's what I'm referring to.

And Pippen with Grant/Rodman is a very nice 1/2. Then add in how well the other players fill their roles (mixing the two teams here).. Paxson, Armstrong, Kerr, Kukoc, Wennington, Longley, Harper, Cartwright, Beuchler... all of those players filled their roles nearly perfectly, similar to the Spurs of today, while being coached by a top 5 coach of all time.

All things considered? That collection of talent, even without Jordan, would be contending for titles from probably '93 through '98, if all else stayed the same. Not necessarily winning them, but contending for them. Jordan took a great team and made it transcendent just as, I suspect, most any top 10-15 player would have done. Not trying to diminish Jordan here, just being real.

getting back to the main point, i would take lebron over jordan for these reasons:

-offensive versatility
-defensive verastility (hard to understate BUT is the real reason he should have multiple DPOYs).
-destroying the point of attack (best against opposing point guards, whom he seems to completely shut down with his ridiculous size and speed)
-foul rate (always on the court, giving the opposing team fewer easy opportunities)
-better 3PT shooter (something heavily focused on today- shot 40% last year beyond the arc, that is considered an elite level)
-better passer (averaged 7 assists per game for his career, while Jordan averaged 5 assists per. simply put, lebron is a better passer, and certainly a more willing passer)
-better Teammate (encourages teammates and shows his trust in his teammates by passing them the ball throughout the game in order to instill confidence in them)
-better rebounder

basically, aynone that sees lebron as a better player often think of him as a bigger and stronger version of jordan.

however, there's more to it than that. bron is the games best elimination game player and quite possibly THE most efficient perimeter player ever (taking into account his passing here too)

[Beastmode88]

No he didn't.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PyFp219Nj4Y

everytime.

[Bandito]

So dominant. 8 pts in a finals game and was owned by Jason Terry, a 6'2" guard :applause:

[Dragic4Life]

So dominant. 8 pts in a finals game and was owned by Jason Terry, a 6'2" guard :applause
Disputed.

Next.

[Bandito]

Disputed.

Next.
Was saved by Ray Allen the following year and owned by a 22 year old this year. NEXT;


Also go to sleep my egga!

[sportjames23]

LeBron stans showing their lack of NBA history knowledge

Everyday.

[sportjames23]

1991-1998 ----> two 3-peats... 6 Finals MVP's.


1991 - 33ppg, 11 assists, 7 rebs, 54% shooting, Switch-Hands Shot
http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/Jordan_over_Perkins_5e9173876f441a2f4792c5b13bc081 2b.gif


1992 - He Didn't Know How He Was Dominating So Much
http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/Jordan_Shrug_3259f019925f89d0b38af9a541eba934.gif


1993 - 41ppg (Finals Record)
http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/Jordan_over_defenders_in_Final_5ace7152199370ef1a7 bbf2800592a58.gif


1996 - Averaged 32ppg on 47% shooting thru 3 games to go up 3-0 and End Series
http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/Jordan_Hangtime_Jumper_on_offb_12e8ad28b619d87d7ad fef991e4158c1.gif


1997 - Game 1 GW, Flu Game, GW Assist to Kerr
http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/1997_Finals_Flu_Game_Jordan_a8995f3cc9cacb412fdb53 7af22c1245.gif


1998 - Pippen and Rodman MIA, Jordan Backpacks It By Himself the Entire Series (at 35)
http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/Jordan_GOAT_Final_Shot_1d27acc3354a339adacd2c511bc 0ed72.gif


ISH Rookie of the Year right here. :cheers:

[SamuraiSWISH]

Jordan from 1991-98 has that beat

4x MVP
6 Championships
6x Finals MVP
6x All-NBA First Team
6x All-Star
6x All-Defensive First Team
6x scoring champ
http://www.midwestsportsfans.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/shawn-marion.gif

[TheMarkMadsen]

Jordan from 1991-98 has that beat

4x MVP
6 Championships
6x Finals MVP
6x All-NBA First Team
6x All-Star
6x All-Defensive First Team
6x scoring champ


Bran stan response

"The only thing Jordan had was a better team"

[WindmiLL]

ISH Rookie of the Year right here. :cheers:


The most useless poster in ISH history right here.

Really, I never see this guy post something usefull, all he does is quoting other posters with a few words and smilies and shit. He does it in a way like the poster he was quoting wrote excatly his thoughts/opinion except he never writes his opinion about anything because he's not capable of creating it. But he acts like he knew all the shit he was quoting and acts like he's some 40+years NBA fan.

Atleast other Jordan stans like Samuraiswish occasionally write something usefull and are capable of creating their own opinion about the matter. Even the biggest trolls on here can come up with their own thoughts from time to time, but this guy is literally a fcking parrot.

The worst part is that he thinks he's funny too.

[bizil]

I think Lebron's had the most dominant run of VERSATILITY of all time. And when u see what he accomplished, that's epic shit. When u consider what he brings on both sides of the courts, u can make that case in that sense.

[buddha]

probably that one time that one black dude won like 6 championships in 8 years or so.

[dubeta]

if you consider Jordans 48% shooting during that stretch dominant, then go ahead


SMH Jordan's supposed to be a scorer but cant even score as effectively as Bran

[deja vu]

if you consider Jordans 48% shooting during that stretch dominant, then go ahead


SMH Jordan's supposed to be a scorer but cant even score as effectively as Bran
6/6 >>> 2/5

[dubeta]

6/6 >>> 2/5

horry 7/7 suck it

[Milbuck]

if you consider Jordans 48% shooting during that stretch dominant, then go ahead


SMH Jordan's supposed to be a scorer but cant even score as effectively as Bran
Lebron 2009-2014 Playoffs: 28ppg on 60% TS
Jordan 1991-1998 Playoffs: 33ppg on 57% TS

Lebron 2011-2014 Finals: 25ppg on 57% TS
Jordan 1991-1993, 1996-1998 Finals: 34ppg on 56% TS

If we go age-for-age, as in age 24-29..it's even bigger a gap.

Lebron: 28ppg on 60% TS
Jordan: 35ppg on 58% TS

Efficiency doe.

[dubeta]

Lebron 2009-2014 Playoffs: 28ppg on 60% TS
Jordan 1991-1998 Playoffs: 33ppg on 57% TS

Lebron 2011-2014 Finals: 25ppg on 57% TS
Jordan 1991-1993, 1996-1998 Finals: 34ppg on 56% TS

Efficiency doe.

lmao you included Brans 2011 Finals where he tried to play sidekick to Wade

take that out and compare

[Milbuck]

lmao you included Brans 2011 Finals where he tried to play sidekick to Wade

take that out and compare
Gotta make it fair. Which one of Jordan's sidekick finals do you want me to take out?

[dubeta]

Gotta make it fair. Which one of Jordan's sidekick finals do you want me to take out?

All 6 of them, Pippen was the true FMVP

[sportjames23]

horry 7/7 suck it

Nikka rode coattails on three teams to get that.

C'mon, son. You can do better than that.

No wait, you can't. :facepalm

[sportjames23]

The most useless poster in ISH history right here.

Really, I never see this guy post something usefull, all he does is quoting other posters with a few words and smilies and shit. He does it in a way like the poster he was quoting wrote excatly his thoughts/opinion except he never writes his opinion about anything because he's not capable of creating it. But he acts like he knew all the shit he was quoting and acts like he's some 40+years NBA fan.

Atleast other Jordan stans like Samuraiswish occasionally write something usefull and are capable of creating their own opinion about the matter. Even the biggest trolls on here can come up with their own thoughts from time to time, but this guy is literally a fcking parrot.

The worst part is that he thinks he's funny too.


You sound upset, ph@ggot.

Why waste time with facts that'll be ignored by bitches like you? I'd rather troll you bitches and laugh at you.

[Micku]

getting back to the main point, i would take lebron over jordan for these reasons:

-offensive versatility
-defensive verastility (hard to understate BUT is the real reason he should have multiple DPOYs).
-destroying the point of attack (best against opposing point guards, whom he seems to completely shut down with his ridiculous size and speed)
-foul rate (always on the court, giving the opposing team fewer easy opportunities)
-better 3PT shooter (something heavily focused on today- shot 40% last year beyond the arc, that is considered an elite level)
-better passer (averaged 7 assists per game for his career, while Jordan averaged 5 assists per. simply put, lebron is a better passer, and certainly a more willing passer)
-better Teammate (encourages teammates and shows his trust in his teammates by passing them the ball throughout the game in order to instill confidence in them)
-better rebounder

basically, aynone that sees lebron as a better player often think of him as a bigger and stronger version of jordan.

however, there's more to it than that. bron is the games best elimination game player and quite possibly THE most efficient perimeter player ever (taking into account his passing here too)

Maybe later on during 2014 Heat I think when LBJ played more off the ball. Even then I would say it's arguable.

Part of the reason why the Heat were so awkward in the beginning was because of LeBron and D-Wade lack of versatility on offense. They need to have the ball to be effective and they weren't great off the ball. LBJ needed to run the offense to be effective back for a while. If LBJ was as versatile as ppl claim, he would be able to play off the ball more to maximize the big 3 potential from the start. Instead they took turns.

Prime MJ was great off the ball and was much better at getting into position in the post and catch and shoot. He could run the offense if need be as well. That is versatility to me, not LBJ running the offense like a point all the time like he used to.

[Soundwave]

Heat are 4/4 in chips right now with similarly aged Jordan in place of LeBron and everyone on this board knows it even the Bran stans who don't want to admit it.

Bran is overrated as a "team passer" too, he doesn't make other players better unless their game is to just be a spot up shooter. If you play any other style, you're basically f*cked in a LeBron James offence.

He's no Magic Johnson (someone who legitimately could run the offence tailored to whatever talent given to him and made sure to exploit the strengths of his roster).

[dubeta]

Heat are 4/4 in chips right now with similarly aged Jordan in place of LeBron and everyone on this board knows it even the Bran stans who don't want to admit it.

Bran is overrated as a "team passer" too, he doesn't make other players better unless their game is to just be a spot up shooter. If you play any other style, you're basically f*cked in a LeBron James offence.

He's no Magic Johnson (someone who legitimately could run the offence tailored to whatever talent given to him and made sure to exploit the strengths of his roster).

LMAO MJ would never sniff the finals, Boston, Chicago, Indiana, Nets all beat a MJ led heat team

How can Wade and MJ both play together, someone has to play SF and whoever does is gonna get torched