Let's talk about how Wiggins isn't close to the defenders Leonard & George are

[PleezeBelieve]

... let alone Pippen :roll:

College defensive rating (points given up per 100 poss on floor):

Wiggins - 102.5
George - 94.5
Leonard - 89.5

There you have it, not only was Wiggins average in BPG & SPG, individually, he was about as non-impactful as a someone who is hyped as he is can be. :roll:

For reference:

Embiid - 90.9
Jabari - 99.3 (Wiggins fans gonna hate this :oldlol:)
Gordon - 88.6


I could go on and on but I know you Wiggins fanatics don't care. This is your favorite part of the NBA year. In the off season you can make up any superlatives you want for this guy because no games are being played. Happened in 2012. Ditto in 2013.

The next Pippen... yadda yadda yadda :rolleyes:

Generational prospect... yadda yadda yadda :rolleyes:

Future Defensive player of the year .... yadda yadda yadda :rolleyes:

Not worth giving up for Kevin Love... YADDA YADDA YADDA :roll: :roll: :roll:

[JohnFreeman]

his ceiling is probably higher than both of them though

[Jameerthefear]

Gordon :applause:

[DukeDelonte13]

advanced defensive metrics are sketchy. Wiggins was great defensively in the SL.

The only thing i'm sure of when it comes to wiggins is his defense.

Nobody is sure about his shooting, ball handling, assertiveness, vision, etc., but the one area where he is clearly a superior prospect aside from athleticism is his defense.


Cavs don't need to rush and sell the farm for Love. They have the leverage, Minny does not. Love is going to leave them anyways. The pressure is on them to get a return for him, or it's going to be Steve Kerr w/ Amare and the suns all over again.

The parallels between this situation and the Amare one are pretty striking, IMO.

Amare and K-Love are both injury prone headcases that don't play D. Contrary to popular belief, cavs did offer Hickson to get Amare but Steve Kerr refused the deal. The confusion happens with that because the Cavs refused to offer Hickson in a deal for Shaq. Danny Ferry wasn't a complete idiot.


There are legit arguments to give up wiggins for love but i think the cavs should wait and see how he looks on the floor with Lebron and Co.

[GrapeApe]

I'm neutral on Wiggins but defensive stats especially at the college level are pretty worthless, and all stats are worthless without context. Just sayin.

[PleezeBelieve]

Gordon :applause:
The real next Kawhi Leonard... except with hops

[PleezeBelieve]

I'm neutral on Wiggins but defensive stats, especially at the college level are pretty worthless, and all stats are worthless without context. Just sayin.
College stays don't matter?

Ok... :oldlol:

[JtotheIzzo]

I'm neutral on Wiggins but defensive stats especially at the college level are pretty worthless, and all stats are worthless without context. Just sayin.


That's ironic because the OP is worthless and lacks any context.

Gay A.:roll:

Jabari was a better defender than Wiggins? That is why Coach K subbed him out for defense against Mercer.

Only someone as mental a midget as Gay A could watch summer league and come away think Wiggins is a poor defender, only someone as mental a midget as Gay A could watch Duke vs Kansas at the beginning of the college year and not see Wiggins completely shut down a red hot Jabari down the stretch, Only someone as mental a midget as Gay A could watch Wiggins play and assume he is a lightweight at defense, Only someone as mental a midget as Gay A could watch all the talking heads rave about a prospect's defense and still say it sucks to fill his own agenda.

Brad Williams and Vern Troyer can both post up Gay A.

[JohnMax]

Those stats are misleading because his teammates sucked at defense and his coach had him guard 3 point shooters.

[PleezeBelieve]

advanced defensive metrics are sketchy. Wiggins was great defensively in the SL.

The only thing i'm sure of when it comes to wiggins is his defense.

Nobody is sure about his shooting, ball handling, assertiveness, vision, etc., but the one area where he is clearly a superior prospect aside from athleticism is his defense.


Cavs don't need to rush and sell the farm for Love. They have the leverage, Minny does not. Love is going to leave them anyways. The pressure is on them to get a return for him, or it's going to be Steve Kerr w/ Amare and the suns all over again.

The parallels between this situation and the Amare one are pretty striking, IMO.

Amare and K-Love are both injury prone headcases that don't play D. Contrary to popular belief, cavs did offer Hickson to get Amare but Steve Kerr refused the deal. The confusion happens with that because the Cavs refused to offer Hickson in a deal for Shaq. Danny Ferry wasn't a complete idiot.


There are legit arguments to give up wiggins for love but i think the cavs should wait and see how he looks on the floor with Lebron and Co.
No you're not sure about his defense because his per game and advanced metrics says he's rather pedestrian for a top prospect

[PleezeBelieve]

Play with Embiid and still say Wiggins teammates sucked on D :oldlol:

[GrapeApe]

That's ironic because the OP is worthless and lacks any context.

Gay A.:roll:

Jabari was a better defender than Wiggins? That is why Coach K subbed him out for defense against Mercer.

Only someone as mental a midget as Gay A could watch summer league and come away think Wiggins is a poor defender, only someone as mental a midget as Gay A could watch Duke vs Kansas at the beginning of the college year and not see Wiggins completely shut down a red hot Jabari down the stretch, Only someone as mental a midget as Gay A could watch Wiggins play and assume he is a lightweight at defense, Only someone as mental a midget as Gay A could watch all the talking heads rave about a prospect's defense and still say it sucks to fill his own agenda.

Brad Williams and Vern Troyer can both post up Gay A.

Is this a shot at me? I'm very confused. If so you misunderstood what I said. If not I misunderstood what you said. :oldlol:

[Jailblazers7]

Gordon :applause:

PAC12 is weak as shit. Honestly, these stats don't mean a lot unless they are adjusted for strength of schedule or something.

[JtotheIzzo]

Is this a shot at me? I'm very confused. If so you misunderstood what I said. If not I misunderstood what you said. :oldlol:

Its a shot at the OP, he has a rap name too, its 'Gay A' because he wants to steal some of Macklemore's thunder.

Not a shot at you.

[PleezeBelieve]

PAC12 is weak as shit. Honestly, these stats don't mean a lot unless they are adjusted for strength of schedule or something.
In two seasons @ Oklahoma State playing with midgets:

Marcus Smart - 86.2, 92.3

I mean you Wiggins fanatics really sounding outright pathetic :oldlol;

[JtotheIzzo]

In two seasons @ Oklahoma State playing with midgets:

Marcus Smart - 86.2, 92.3

I mean you Wiggins fanatics really sounding outright pathetic :oldlol;

You are the only fanatic here Gay A and it is a very perverse form of fandom.

[Jailblazers7]

In two seasons @ Oklahoma State playing with midgets:

Marcus Smart - 86.2, 92.3

I mean you Wiggins fanatics really sounding outright pathetic :oldlol;

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/bracketology/sos

2013 Non-conference SOS:

1. Kansas
.
.
.
18. Duke
.
.
.
35. Arizona
.
.
.
113. Oklahoma State

[PleezeBelieve]

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/bracketology/sos

2013 Non-conference SOS:

1. Kansas
.
.
.
18. Duke
.
.
.
35. Arizona
.
.
.
113. Oklahoma State
Conference defensive ratings:

Marcus Smart - 86.1, 93.3

Andrew Wiggins - 102.5


Checkmate, b*tch. :roll:

Try another excuse

[PleezeBelieve]

Harrison Barnes @ NC

Freshman: 97.4

Sophomore: 95.5

For you unbiased basketball fans out there, thanks to me you are starting to see how overrated this Wiggins dude is.

[DMAVS41]

I don't care much about college because the game is so different, but I do see what the OP is getting at.

Like...what are the chances that Wiggins gets as good as Paul George in the next 5 years?

Paul George is an elite on ball defender...he's a really good 3 point shooter. Better than most give him credit for considering how many tough shots he has to take in that shit offense in Indiana...and he's a solid playmaker as well.

Just seems to me that Cavs fans have really gone to extremes just assuming that Wiggins is going to be some all time great player. Definitely could be, but hardly a lock on any level.

[Dragic4Life]

OP makes a very good point.

I want Wiggins gone and Love to play for us.

[GODbe]

He's so, so overrated. I foresaw it since I first watched him play. He's a homeless mans Harrison Barnes. Gonna be funny when Cavs keep him and LeBald bolts after a year because he realizes it too:lol .

[PleezeBelieve]

Julius Randle - 97.8 :oldlol:


A 102.5 defensive rating is egregiously poor... haha

[noob cake]

That's ironic because the OP is worthless and lacks any context.

Gay A.:roll:

Jabari was a better defender than Wiggins? That is why Coach K subbed him out for defense against Mercer.

Only someone as mental a midget as Gay A could watch summer league and come away think Wiggins is a poor defender, only someone as mental a midget as Gay A could watch Duke vs Kansas at the beginning of the college year and not see Wiggins completely shut down a red hot Jabari down the stretch, Only someone as mental a midget as Gay A could watch Wiggins play and assume he is a lightweight at defense, Only someone as mental a midget as Gay A could watch all the talking heads rave about a prospect's defense and still say it sucks to fill his own agenda.

Brad Williams and Vern Troyer can both post up Gay A.

More ignorant posting by kids who don't watch the game. Parker was worn out from guarding Mercer post players all game. Parker played 5 for Duke most of the time, 4 when he is not playing 5. Mercer went small with all guards to shoot that 3 point shot.

Coach K subbed Parker out because he was worn out. We all know that Parker could use some conditioning.

[PleezeBelieve]

He's so, so overrated. I foresaw it since I first watched him play. He's a homeless mans Harrison Barnes. Gonna be funny when Cavs keep him and LeBald bolts after a year because he realizes it too:lol .
Cavs fans really think this guy a generational talent who encompasses the best of Michael Jordan and Scottie Pippen. :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

[noob cake]

In two seasons @ Oklahoma State playing with midgets:

Marcus Smart - 86.2, 92.3

I mean you Wiggins fanatics really sounding outright pathetic :oldlol;

Some reading for Wigginstans. Some key conclusion


Marcus Smart was a vastly superior NCAA defensive player to Andrew Wiggins. He was a one man wrecking crew on defense, whereas Wiggins was merely a solidly good defensive player. Given the predictive power of steal rate and the fact that Smart has the tools to become an impact defensive player in the NBA, this should weigh heavily into Smart’s NBA defensive projection.

http://deanondraft.com/2014/06/01/marcus-smart-vs-andrew-wiggins-who-was-the-best-big-12-perimeter-defender/

Also I would like to make one point. Getting a highlight block while jumping 45 inches DOESN'T make you a good defender. Wiggins is a rather average defender right now who is flashy but ineffective. He has all the tools to be the best defender in the league, but he is NOT NBA All-First Team defense right now.

[dreamwarrior]

Those stats are misleading because his teammates sucked at defense and his coach had him guard 3 point shooters.
Exactly. He was guarding sg and pgs. That's how much confidence they had in his D. If you go by the stats you might say he's worse than average, he's quite a poor defender but shit just watch the games and you'll wonder wtf those stats came from. Wiggins is at this moment as good as Harrison Barnes with an extra 5ppg if he can put up numbers similar to SL. That's pretty much his floor right now. His ceiling who knows