Where do you expect Durant to rank all-time when he retires?

[Roundball_Rock]

He is only 25 and has played for just 7 seasons so this guesswork but the answers will reveal what caliber of a player people think he is. I ask this because I have seen a couple people recently scoff at Durant as being weak competition for LeBron for MVP's so I wonder what caliber of player people think he is relative to all-time greats. He has been the consensus second best player in the league for three consecutive years and top 5 for several more but I suppose one could fall back on the old "weak era" card (even though this era has the deepest talent pool of any era due the game becoming truly global). Durant thus far has never been the best player in the league and has never had a legitimate case for it either. Nor has Durant won a ring thus far despite playing with Westbrook, Harden and Ibaka.

Here is his resume right now:

1x MVP
3x MVP runner-up
5x top 5 in MVP voting (consecutive)
5x all-NBA first team (consecutive)
4x scoring champ (three consecutive)
1x Finals
3x WCF

Given his age, he has not even hit his peak yet. I think he is tracking to be a top 20 player with potential to reach the top 15 (i.e. think Dr. J or Moses) with top 25 being a floor. All this, of course, assumes he does not have an injury that ruins his career. He likely will finish with 1-3 rings and 2-3 MVP's. This will depend a lot of how LeBron does but age may give Durant a window. LeBron turns 30 this year while Durant will be 26. Since a basketball player's peak generally is 27-30, Durant will be in his peak years when LeBron is out of his prime. It is possible that Durant at 29 will be a better player than LeBron at 33, but we have to see how LeBron ages.

Durant is the foil to LeBron in a way we have not seen since Bird/Magic, that is two players who are perennially top 2 in the game--and they play the same position to boot. The downside for Durant, though, is this leads to an unfavorable comparison to a superior player while Magic/Bird were comparable. While he is the second best player, he is closer to the rest of the top 5 than he is to #1. Indeed, his teammate is closer to him than he is to LeBron.

What are your thoughts?

[riseagainst]

top 10.

[VengefulAngel]

top 10-20 range.

[moe94]

Durant's case for best player was actually very strong during the regular season.

That shit about him being closer to the 3-5 than to LeBron is absolute nonsense. It's very clear that they're in a tier by themselves but you'd have people believe LeBron is on a level all to himself and that's simply not the case, by any measure. :kobe:

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Durant's case for best player was actually very strong during the regular season.

That shit about him being closer to the 3-5 than to LeBron is absolute nonsense. :kobe:
this...Durant will go down top 15 if he stays healthy at worst

[nightprowler10]

Given his age, he has not even hit his peak yet. I think he is tracking to be a top 20 player with potential to reach the top 15 (i.e. think Dr. J or Moses) with top 25 being a floor.

Agree with this.

[Roundball_Rock]

Durant's case for best player was actually very strong during the regular season.

That shit about him being closer to the 3-5 than to LeBron is absolute nonsense. It's very clear that they're in a tier by themselves but you'd have people believe LeBron is on a level all to himself and that's simply not the case, by any measure. :kobe:

I do. If you put LeBron on a 30 win team they become a 50+ win team. I don't think the same would happen with Durant.

[VengefulAngel]

this...Durant will go down top 15 if he stays healthy at worst

Its a pretty stacked list. But top 15 seems fair.

[GODbe]

#2 all time right behind Kobe.

[Fudge]

Top 10-15

[moe94]

I do. If you put LeBron on a 30 win team they become a 50+ win team. I don't think the same would happen with Durant.

Dude, Durant was leading the rather bummy OKC without Westbrook to one of the best records in the competitive West. I mean, what more does he need to do? Unless you're implying that squad was actually good. :roll:

[S13M]

Top-350 is pushing it. Won't make the hall of fame.

[Real14]

Behind Melo.

[GODbe]

I do. If you put LeBron on a 30 win team they become a 50+ win team. I don't think the same would happen with Durant.
So how come he could only win 54 games with one of the most stacked teams in recent memory last season?:facepalm

[KD35Brah]

Durant's case for best player was actually very strong during the regular season.

That shit about him being closer to the 3-5 than to LeBron is absolute nonsense. It's very clear that they're in a tier by themselves but you'd have people believe LeBron is on a level all to himself and that's simply not the case, by any measure. :kobe:His post literally is all about propping up Lebron and trying to degrade Durant.

Durant going in the top 20 at worst is true. But he is literally using Durant as a smokescreem to prop up Lebron.

He always does this with MJ to prop up Pippen too. Truly a horrible poster. Disgusting.

[Roundball_Rock]

It says more about how I see LeBron than how I see Durant. I see LeBron as in that GOAT-caliber tier (MJ, KAJ, Wilt, Russell, and Bird, Magic, and Shaq at their peaks). Even with Westbrook OKC is an elite team. They still would have the #2 player, another top 20 player in Ibaka who is a dominant shot blocker on the defensive end and Reggie Jackson is a good player. Jackson put up 14/4/5 as a starter in 31 mpg. Those aren't great number but they definitely are solid for a #3 player and are excellent for a #4 player with Westbrook.

For people saying he will be top 10 how high on the list can he go? What do you view as his ceiling? The lower end of the top 10 generally consists of Kobe, Hakeem, Duncan and Shaq. Is he on their level? I am not disagreeing (I can see people seeing him as close to Hakeem and Kobe). I am just curious how people view Durant.

[NumberSix]

Nowhere.

[Dragic4Life]

Around 30th.

[sportjames23]

#2 all time right behind Kobe.


http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6067/6081114162_eae14ba471_o.gif

[Roundball_Rock]

His post literally is all about propping up Lebron and trying to degrade Durant.

Durant going in the top 20 at worst is true. But he is literally using Durant as a smokescreem to prop up Lebron.


:facepalm

This thread was prompted by MJ stans implying Durant<<<K. Malone and D. Robinson when discussing MVP competition.

Yeah, I have a history of bashing Durant (to prop up LeBron) on ISH. :rolleyes: How often have I even mentioned Durant? :lol

[r0drig0lac]

top 30

[SOD 21]

If you project forward 8 to 10 years from now where KD could be on the all-time scoring list, all NBA teams, MVP's, etc. a case could certainly be made for him being in the top 15 or 20 all time.

I could easily see him with 10 to 12 first team all NBA selections, seven or eight scoring titles, two or three regular-season MVP's, a top-five scorer all-time and potentially several championships. That all adds up to at least the top 20 resume, and that may be conservative.

But a lot of it depends on championships and longevity to go along with the rest of his resume. Low-end is top 30 and high-end is potentially top 15.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

:facepalm

This thread was prompted by MJ stans implying Durant<<<K. Malone and D. Robinson when discussing MVP competition.

Yeah, I have a history of bashing Durant (to prop up LeBron) on ISH. :rolleyes: How often have I even mentioned Durant? :lol
Robinson is debatable but i'd take KD over Malone all day

[KD35Brah]

It says more about how I see LeBron than how I see Durant. I see LeBron as in that GOAT-caliber tier (MJ, KAJ, Wilt, Russell, and Bird, Magic, and Shaq at their peaks). Even with Westbrook OKC is an elite team. They still would have the #2 player, another top 20 player in Ibaka who is a dominant shot blocker on the defensive end and Reggie Jackson is a good player. Jackson put up 14/4/5 as a starter in 31 mpg. Those aren't great number but they definitely are solid for a #3 player and are excellent for a #4 player with Westbrook.

For people saying he will be top 10 how high on the list can he go? What do you view as his ceiling? The lower end of the top 10 generally consists of Kobe, Hakeem, Duncan and Shaq. Is he on their level? I am not disagreeing (I can see people seeing him as close to Hakeem and Kobe). I am just curious how people view Durant.Besides Ibaka who shoots at a low volume and can't create for himself.

Durant is literally the only efficient and deep threat player on the entire roster. This whole notion of Westbrook actually carrying this team like Durant did this season is ****ing stupid.

Westbrook is already a loose inefficient cannon with the best scorer in the league to defer to. Westbrook taking more ill-advised shots at a higher volume than he already does is asking for chaos. I have a lot of respect for Westbrook, but people need to stop talking out of their ass.

[DMAVS41]

really depends.

going to be hard to overlook if he never wins with the kind of loaded teams he's had.

it's kind of time now. had some bad breaks the last two years with the WB and Ibaka injuries...so nothing damaging to his legacy at all yet.

but it's time to win a title given he has the most help in the league...

[Milbuck]

I'd say he's a lock for top 20 barring any injuries, top 15 is very likely. But honestly, his ceiling is a very low top 10 all-time player and I think he could do it.

The dude is only 25..

If he does the following:

- 3 rings/FMVPs
- 3 MVPs
- 30k points
- 8 scoring titles
- 14-15 All Star appearances
- 3-4 All Star MVPs
- 10+ All NBA 1st Team

If he does all of that, and it's all very realistic, he's a top 10 player all time for me with him kicking out Hakeem. And his peak is on track to be one of the truly great ones..he just put up 32/7/6/1/1 with 64% TS as a 25 year old, and he has potentially 4 more years to improve. Even if he doesn't improve at all offensively and only improves defensively, that's an all-time great peak.

[Roundball_Rock]

I'd say he's a lock for top 20 barring any injuries, top 15 is very likely. But honestly, his ceiling is a very low top 10 all-time player and I think he could do it.

The dude is only 25..

If he does the following:

- 3 rings/FMVPs
- 3 MVPs
- 30k points
- 8 scoring titles
- 14-15 All Star appearances
- 3-4 All Star MVPs
- 10+ All NBA 1st Team

If he does all of that, and it's all very realistic, he's a top 10 player all time for me with him kicking out Hakeem. And his peak is on track to be one of the truly great ones..he just put up 32/7/6/1/1 with 64% TS as a 25 year old, and he has potentially 4 more years to improve. Even if he doesn't improve at all offensively and only improves defensively, that's an all-time great peak.

Agreed. With that resume he gets past Hakeem, Kobe and has a case over Shaq, Magic, and Bird. I would still put those three over him but if he does what you list he is ahead of Hakeem and Kobe.


Besides Ibaka who shoots at a low volume and can't create for himself.

Durant is literally the only efficient and deep threat player on the entire roster.

If you take the top 2 players off of any team you are going to see flaws with the rest of the roster. The issue is how a team is relative to its competitors. Having Ibaka and Jackson along with a top 2 player=an elite team. Does that mean a great team? No but they would be comparable to Portland and Houston without Westbrook.


really depends.

going to be hard to overlook if he never wins with the kind of loaded teams he's had.

it's kind of time now. had some bad breaks the last two years with the WB and Ibaka injuries...so nothing damaging to his legacy at all yet.

but it's time to win a title given he has the most help in the league...

True. Same with Paul imo. He has Griffin, Jordan and Crawford along with a good coach and still has never gotten past the second round.

[TylerOO]

lol at the mvp runner up award op listed. smh

[KD35Brah]

:facepalm

This thread was prompted by MJ stans implying Durant<<<K. Malone and D. Robinson when discussing MVP competition.

Yeah, I have a history of bashing Durant (to prop up LeBron) on ISH. :rolleyes: How often have I even mentioned Durant? :lol

"Durant thus far has never been the best player in the league and has never had a legitimate case for it either. Nor has Durant won a ring thus far despite playing with Westbrook, Harden and Ibaka.*"

According to this KD was supposed to beat the Heat led by Lebron, Bosh, and Wade all 27 years of age or older. All battle tested and after they just came back hungry after losing to Dallas in 2011. Ibaka was half the offensive player he is now. Durant, Westbrook, Ibaka, and Harden were all younger than 23 years old, which is why Harden disappeared. Durant still put up 31ppg on 65 TS%.


"The downside for Durant, though, is this leads to an unfavorable comparison to a superior player while Magic/Bird were comparable. While he is the second best player, he is closer to the rest of the top 5 than he is to #1. Indeed, his teammate is closer to him than he is to LeBron.*"

Is anyone really supposed to take any of the bullshit you are saying seriously after this?

[Rocketswin2013]

OP Durant is 25 going on 26, and he hasn't even hit his peak? What exactly are you projecting for him then? GOAT status?

[moe94]

really depends.

going to be hard to overlook if he never wins with the kind of loaded teams he's had.

it's kind of time now. had some bad breaks the last two years with the WB and Ibaka injuries...so nothing damaging to his legacy at all yet.

but it's time to win a title given he has the most help in the league...

Nope. I'd say Paul, no?

[Roundball_Rock]

According to this KD was supposed to beat the Heat led by Lebron, Bosh, and Wade all 27 years of age or older.

No, but this stuff is factored in when people look at player's legacies and rate them historically. If he wins rings in the future no one will care about losing in 2012; if he never wins people will note the teammates he had and that he never won a ring. Why is this shocking to you? People routinely note that Malone lost despite having Stockton and Barkley lost with K. Johnson, Majerle.


Is anyone really supposed to take any of the bullshit you are saying seriously after this?

What do you dispute? That was an assessment of Durant that many people share. What shame is there in being the second best pro basketball player in the world? He is only 25. The window is there for him to have a few years as #1. Note that he was referred to, and is generally considered to be, the second best player for the past few years. In other words, people view him as clearly better than the other elite players not named LeBron. You don't see anyone arguing anyone over him for #2. The gap between him and #1 versus the gap between him and #3-5 is debatable but that the general view is that LeBron has been the best in recent years, Durant second best and they are clearly ahead of the next few players is the way things are perceived. So again, what exactly do you dispute?


OP Durant is 25 going on 26, and he hasn't even hit his peak? What exactly are you projecting for him then?

He hasn't hit his peak--which is your best 2-3 years--but he is in his prime. He should improve when he hits 27-30 but that doesn't mean he will take a gigantic leap. His age is relevant because his peak will coincide with LeBron's decline, giving him a window to become the best player in the league. That is relevant for a player's all-time rating. One reason Hakeem and Kobe are where they are is they didn't have a run as the best player nearly as long as the guys ahead of them.


lol at the mvp runner up award op listed. smh

Runner-up MVP is an accomplishment imo. A lot of players never achieve that, i.e. Wade's high is #3 in MVP voting (once) while Durant has been runner-up thrice and MVP once.

[Rocketswin2013]

He hasn't hit his peak--which is your best 2-3 years--but he is in his prime. He should improve when he hits 27-30 but that doesn't mean he will take a gigantic leap. His age is relevant because his peak will coincide with LeBron's decline, giving him a window to become the best player in the league. That is relevant for a player's all-time rating. One reason Hakeem and Kobe are where they are is they didn't have a run as the best player nearly as long as the guys ahead of them.:oldlol:


He's 25, and just had a season of 32-7-5 64 TS%, and will improve on that? And for 2-3 more years? Consider what you're saying right now. KD likely had his peak season this past year. He may be able to play that great a few more times but what you've seen is likely what you get.

I see KD ending his career in the top ten if everything goes right. Anywhere from 5-8. No guarantees though.

[Milbuck]

:oldlol:


He's 25, and just had a season of 32-7-5 64 TS%, and will improve on that? And for 2-3 more years? Consider what you're saying right now. KD likely had his peak season this past year. He may be able to play that great a few more times but what you've seen is likely what you get.

I see KD ending his career in the top ten if everything goes right. Anywhere from 5-8. No guarantees though.
You not being able to comprehend the possibility of him getting better isn't the ultimate judgement of when his peak is. The reality is, a giant chunk of players in NBA history have been at their absolute best from the ages 27-29..hence, it's entirely likely that KD hasn't hit his 3 year peak yet.

[Roundball_Rock]

:oldlol:


He's 25, and just had a season of 32-7-5 64 TS%, and will improve on that? And for 2-3 more years? Consider what you're saying right now. KD likely had his peak season this past year. He may be able to play that great a few more times but what you've seen is likely what you get.

How many players in history, who have not been injured later, have peaked at age 25? Pick any 10 players from a hat. The lion's share will peak from 27-30. You are confusing statistical peaks with actual peak play.

Shaq's peak=2000-02. 27-29 years old.
Jordan's peak=1991-1993. 27-29 years old.
Bird's peak=1984-1986. 27-29 years old.
Magic's peak=1987-1990. 27-30 years old.
Kobe's peak=2006-2009. 27-29 years old.

Duncan and Kareem are some of the rare ones who arguably peaked earlier (Hakeem is a rare case of peaking later, from 30-32) and even in KAJ's case a lot of people believe 77' was his best year. How old was he then? 29.

[DMAVS41]

Nope. I'd say Paul, no?

Sure.

Paul or Durant.

Difference is that Durant is supposed to be a better player.

I still like the Thunder roster more then the Clippers, but I guess I'll call it a draw because of Rivers vs Brooks.

[JellyBean]

Depends on his marketing brand. But I say round 30-50 range. A lot depends on what he does over his remaining years in the league.

[Rocketswin2013]

You not being able to comprehend the possibility of him getting better isn't the ultimate judgement of when his peak is. The reality is, a giant chunk of players in NBA history have been at their absolute best from the ages 27-29..hence, it's entirely likely that KD hasn't hit his 3 year peak yet.
Ok. So 32-7-5 with 64% TS is not his ceiling. And take into account that's peak Jordan-level offense right there in the first place. So what exactly is his ceiling?

I mean you can use the LeBron logic and say he'll get better but won't show up on the stat sheet like LeBrons other years but I don't really agree with that. I think 2009 and 2012 were LeBron's best seasons for different reasons. And it's the same way I don't see Kevin Durant topping what he's done.

Consider what had to happen too. Everything fell in place for Durant to do what he did, mainly with Westbrook getting injured and it allowed him to lead the offense.

[GrapeApe]

A lot depends on what he does over his remaining years in the league.

Magic is that you?

[JUDGE WITNESS]

potentially top 10

[AKADS]

My feeling on Legacy is like an Iron Man.

You cant make your legacy in the first part of your career (you cant win an Iron man during the swim) But you can ruin it.

Who know where Durant ends up. Adrian Dantley was a great scorer. Gervin was a great player.

Durant could have peeked. He could become like MJ and could be winnings ring well into his 30s.

Who know just enjoy the game get over the legacy shit

[KD35Brah]

No, but this stuff is factored in when people look at player's legacies and rate them historically. If he wins rings in the futureno one will care about losing in 2012; if he never wins people will note the teammates he had and that he never won a ring. Why is this shocking to you? People routinely note that Malone lost despite having Stockton and Barkley lost with K. Johnson, Majerle.



What do you dispute? That was an assessment of Durant that many people share. What shame is there in being the only second best pro basketball player in the world? He is only 25. The window is there for him to have a few years as #1. Note that he was referred to, and is generally considered to be, the second best player for the past few years. In other words, people view him as clearly better than the other elite players not named LeBron. You don't see anyone arguing anyone over him for #2. The gap between him and #1 versus the gap between him and #3-5 is debatable but that the general view is that LeBron has been the best in recent years, Durant second best and they are clearly ahead of the next few players is the way things are perceived. So again, what exactly do you dispute?



He hasn't hit his peak--which is your best 2-3 years--but he is in his prime. He should improve when he hits 27-30 but that doesn't mean he will take a gigantic leap. His age is relevant because his peak will coincide with LeBron's decline, giving him a window to become the best player in the league. That is relevant for a player's all-time rating. One reason Hakeem and Kobe are where they are is they didn't have a run as the best player nearly as long as the guys ahead of them.



Runner-up MVP is an accomplishment imo. A lot of players never achieve that, i.e. Wade's high is #3 in MVP voting (once) while Durant has been runner-up thrice and MVP once.Lol no.

First paragraph: If anyone talks shit on Barkley losing to MJ and Pippen in their peak years in the Finals, their opinion should not be taken seriously.

Paragraph 2: Durant and Lebron are more 1a/1b than 1 and 2. The fact that you even think Kd should be in the CP3 and Griffin tier makes you look stupid. KD and Lebron are in an entire tier by themselves. Most people agree that KD is closer to number 1 than number 3.

[Sarcastic]

I'd say top 20 is safe.

Top 15 is rough. There are some great names in top 15, and I'm not sure who he can bump out of the way.

[Rocketswin2013]

How many players in history, who have not been injured later, have peaked at age 25? Pick any 10 players from a hat. The lion's share will peak from 27-30. You are confusing statistical peaks with actual peak play.

Shaq's peak=2000-02. 27-29 years old.
Jordan's peak=1991-1993. 27-29 years old.
Bird's peak=1984-1986. 27-29 years old.
Magic's peak=1987-1990. 27-30 years old.
Kobe's peak=2006-2009. 27-29 years old.

Duncan and Kareem are some of the rare ones who arguably peaked earlier (Hakeem is a rare case of peaking later, from 30-32) and even in KAJ's case a lot of people believe 77' was his best year. How old was he then? 29.
Not really rare ones.

And Kobe had a ton of variance. I don't really know if you could even select one for him.

[Roundball_Rock]

Paragraph 2: Durant and Lebron are more 1a/1b than 1 and 2. The fact that you even think Kd should be in the CP3 and Griffin tier makes you look stupid.

Where did you glean that from? The consensus is he is better than them. Who has Paul and Griffin in a tier with him? Who do you see arguing that Paul is better than Durant? The pecking order clearly is LeBron, Durant and then a group of players which includes Paul, Griffin and a few others like Westbrook, Love, and Carmelo.


ost people agree that KD is closer to number 1 than number 2.

Who cares. The bottom line is 99% of people have him at #2, irrespective of whether he is closer to #1 or #3.


First paragraph: If anyone talks shit on Barkley losing to MJ and Pippen in their peak years in the Finals, their opinion should not be taken seriously.

The fact is him being ringless is held against him. In one of those Phoenix years his team blew a 3-1 lead in the WCSF.


And Kobe had a ton of variance. I don't really know if you could even select one for him.

He had statistical variance. Most people have 2006-2008 as his peak. that is when he was the best player and when he won his MVP.

[Milbuck]

Ok. So 32-7-5 with 64% TS is not his ceiling. And take into account that's peak Jordan-level offense right there in the first place. So what exactly is his ceiling?

I mean you can use the LeBron logic and say he'll get better but won't show up on the stat sheet like LeBrons other years but I don't really agree with that. I think 2009 and 2012 were LeBron's best seasons for different reasons. And it's the same way I don't see Kevin Durant topping what he's done.

Consider what had to happen too. Everything fell in place for Durant to do what he did, mainly with Westbrook getting injured and it allowed him to lead the offense.
Dude..you understand defense counts, right? Even if he makes ZERO improvements offensively and remains the player he is now on that end...if he improves defensively, he's improved as a basketball player.

And considering that he's yet to develop a consistent and reliable post game, which coincidentally he is working on this summer, he could definitely improve offensively.

This isn't purely a statistical discussion, we're talking Durant as an overall basketball player. And he has plenty of room to grow, as well as the intention and work ethic to go for it. Definitively saying "he can't top what he did this year" is just not realistic.

[JT123]

Dude, Durant was leading the rather bummy OKC without Westbrook to one of the best records in the competitive West. I mean, what more does he need to do? Unless you're implying that squad was actually good. :roll:
They still had Ibaka, who is much better than anyone Lebron had while leading bad teams to 60 win seasons. Jackson is no scrub either, and would be a starter for the majority of teams in this league. :confusedshrug:

[dubeta]

slightly behind Kobe at #25

[Roundball_Rock]

Dude..you understand defense counts, right? Even if he makes ZERO improvements offensively and remains the player he is now on that end...if he improves defensively, he's improved as a basketball player.

And considering that he's yet to develop a consistent and reliable post game, which coincidentally he is working on this summer, he could definitely improve offensively.

This isn't purely a statistical discussion, we're talking Durant as an overall basketball player. And he has plenty of room to grow, as well as the intention and work ethic to go for it. Definitively saying "he can't top what he did this year" is just not realistic.

:applause:

A lot of players' true peak was not their statistical peak. MJ, KAJ, LeBron are three names off the top of my head.

[dubeta]

So we gon act like Durant isnt a 28-29 ppg scorer masquerading as a 32 ppg juggernaut due to excessive freethrows?

[moe94]

So we gon act like Durant isnt a 28-29 ppg scorer masquerading as a 32 ppg juggernaut due to excessive freethrows?

Durant averaged 9.9 FTA this year. LeBron averaged more than that 3 times in his career. LeBron also averages more for his career.

[dubeta]

Durant averaged 9.9 FTA this year. LeBron averaged more than that 3 times in his career. LeBron also averages more for his career.

lebron attacks the paint with ferocity and gets hit harder than any wing, durant is a jumpshooter

[JT123]

Durant averaged 9.9 FTA this year. LeBron averaged more than that 3 times in his career. LeBron also averages more for his career.
:facepalm Difference is Durant is a perimeter guy while Lebron lived in the paint during his high free throw shooting seasons. You should know better. :coleman:

[JT123]

lebron attacks the paint with ferocity and gets hit harder than any wing, durant is a jumpshooter
:applause: Despite launching about six 3's per game last season, Durant attempted 220 more free throws than Lebron! :biggums: