Pippen vs LeBron vs Kobe. Best finals performer?? (first 5 series)

[Warfan]

I only picked their first 5 because LeBron has only played in 5.

It's very long (only around 5-10 mins to type tho :lol), but i figured some of you might be surprised/interested by how close their level of play is...


PIPPEN-

91:

20.8/9.4/6.6 53 TS%

Notable games -
Game 2 20/5/10
Game 5 32/13/7/5 (closeout game)

92:

20.8/8.3/7.7 56TS%

Notable games -
Game 1 24/9/10
Game 5 24/11/9

93:

21.2/9.2/7.7 46TS%

Notable games -
Game 1 27/9/5
Game 3 26/10/9 (did shoot poorly though)
Game 6 23/12/5/4

96:

16/8/5/2/1 43TS%

Notable games -
Game 2 21/7/2/2/2

97:

20/8.3/3.5 54TS%

Notable games -
Game 1 27/9/2/3/4
Game 3 27/4/4



KOBE

00:

15.6/4.6/4.2 41TS% (played 9 mins in game 2 and missed game 3)

Notable games -
Game 4 28/4/5 (closed the game out whilst shaq was on the bench, game winner)

01:

24.6/7.8/5.8 50TS%

Notable games -
Game 2 31/8/6
Game 3 32/6/3
Game 5 26/12/6

02:

26.8/5.8/5.3 62TS%

Notable games -
Game 3 36/6/4 (jumper w/20 sec left to put them up 4)
Game 4 25/6/8

04:

22.6/2.8/4.4 46TS%

Notable games -
Game 2 34/4/7 (game tying 3 to send it to OT)

08:

25.7/4.7/5 50TS%

Notable games -
Game 2 30/4/8
Game 3 36/7/1



LEBRON

07:

22/7/6.8 43TS%

Notable games -
N/A

11:

17.8/7.2/6.8 54TS%

Notable games -
N/A

12:

28.6/10.2/7.4 56TS%

Notable games -
Game 2 32/8/5 (bank shot and free throws to put Miami up 4)
Game 3 29/14/3
Game 4 26/9/12
Game 5 26/11/13

13:

25.3/10.9/7 53TS%

Notable games -

Game 1 18/18/10
Game 4 33/11/4/2/2
Game 6 32/10/11
Game 7 37/12/4

14:

28.2/7.8/4 68TS%

Notable games -
Game 2 35/10/3/2
Game 5 31/10/5/2


So based on their first 5 series, who's the best finals performer of the 3??

And would kobe's 2009 & 2010 series put him above the other 2?? (if you dont already have him as the best of the 3)

[SouBeachTalents]

LEBRON

07:

22/7/6.8 43TS%

Notable games -
N/A

11:

17.8/7.2/6.8 54TS%

Notable games -
N/A



:roll:

[TheMarkMadsen]

Kobe in 09 put up stats that we haven't seen in the finals since MJ.

32/6/7 with over a block and a steal per game

And game 4 in 2013 wasn't "noticable" for Lebron.

Wade put up 30 before bran and basically sealed the game. Bran got like 10 points in pure garbage time

[SouBeachTalents]

Kobe in 09 put up stats that we haven't seen in the finals since MJ.

32/6/7 with over a block and a steal per game

And game 4 in 2013 wasn't "noticable" for Lebron.

Wade put up 30 before bran and basically sealed the game. Bran got like 10 points in pure garbage time

Wade's 06 > Kobe's '09

In b4 refs/free throws

[TheMilkyBarKid]

Kobe in 09 put up stats that we haven't seen in the finals since MJ.

32/6/7 with over a block and a steal per game

And game 4 in 2013 wasn't "noticable" for Lebron.

Wade put up 30 before bran and basically sealed the game. Bran got like 10 points in pure garbage time
Come on now, Lebron's 12 > Kobe's 09.

Then again, why do I bother responding to you, this is gonna go nowhere.

[Dragic4Life]

Troll thread.:facepalm

Only count the finals they WON please.

[Round Mound]

Pippen = The Best SF of The 90s

[SouBeachTalents]

Pippen = The Best SF of The 90s

Who would even have an argument over him?

[Dragic4Life]

Neither Pippen or Kobe could win a FMVP in their first 5 finals

LeBron won 2 in that timeframe

So LeBron by default

2/5 > 0/5
http://static1.gamespot.com/uploads/original/1112/11123556/2541905-0710152872-300cc.gif

[TheMarkMadsen]

Wade's 06 > Kobe's '09

In b4 refs/free throws

More FTA than the 2nd leading scorer on the HEAT had FGA

Oh and refs.

[TheMarkMadsen]

Come on now, Lebron's 12 > Kobe's 09.

Then again, why do I bother responding to you, this is gonna go nowhere.

If that's how you feel then why respond.

Oh thats right because you're an attention whoring bran stan.

[Warfan]

Kobe in 09 put up stats that we haven't seen in the finals since MJ.

32/6/7 with over a block and a steal per game

And game 4 in 2013 wasn't "noticable" for Lebron.

Wade put up 30 before bran and basically sealed the game. Bran got like 10 points in pure garbage time

'Notable'. Not every game i listed was great, but he still had something like 26/11/4 with great D before he hit those 3 jumpers in garbage time. And Shaq was dominating in most of the games i listed for Kobe, so how wade played doesnt take anything away from brons game 4.

One of the main points of the thread was to show how well Scottie played, and that Bron and Kobe were fairly mediocre finals performers (yes, even if you include the 09 and 10 series). Kobe played well against Orlando, but it isnt even a top 5 finals performance post 1998. Heck Bron had a better series against the same team but just had a worse supporting cast

[SouBeachTalents]

'Notable'. Not every game i listed was great, but he still had something like 26/11/4 with great D before he hit those 3 jumpers in garbage time. And Shaq was dominating in most of the games i listed for Kobe, so how wade played doesnt take anything away from brons game 4.

One of the main points of the thread was to show how well Scottie played, and that Bron and Kobe were fairly mediocre finals performers (yes, even if you include the 09 and 10 series). Kobe played well against Orlando, but it isnt even a top 5 finals performance post 1998. Heck Bron had a much better series against the same team but just had a worse supporting cast.

Fixed

[TheMarkMadsen]

Fixed

Only Lebron stans think putting up great stats and losing > putting up slightly less great stats & winning..

Does anybody ever bring up Jordans playoffs prior to 91 to validate his greatness, including 89 when he averaged better stats than Lebron in 09 over a longer period of time.. Hell no.. Because who gives a shit how great your stats are if you lost the series?

And last time I checked Kobe & Bran the same number of all stars playing beside them, both Mo & Pau were all star reserves..

Kobe did whatever the team needed whenever the moment called for it, for stretches he was a facilitator, then he would have stretches where he dominated the ball & either shot/drove or dumped it off to Pau after drawing in the double team, sometimes this meant having to shoot at a high volume for stretches,Kobe was picking his spots, getting the team involved, switching up his game..

While Lebron mostly just stuck to his pound the ball and either drive or kick it out at the last second routine whenever they needed buckets, and it didnt work enough to win.

Kobe won, Lebron lost & in the end that's all that matters.

[Kvnzhangyay]

Only Lebron stans think putting up great stats and losing > putting up slightly less great stats & winning..

Does anybody ever bring up Jordans playoffs prior to 91 to validate his greatness, including 89 when he averaged better stats than Lebron in 09 over a longer period of time.. Hell no.. Because who gives a shit how great your stats are if you lost the series?

And last time I checked Kobe & Bran the same number of all stars playing beside them, both Mo & Pau were all star reserves..

Kobe did whatever the team needed whenever the moment called for it, for stretches he was a facilitator, then he would have stretches where he dominated the ball & either shot/drove or dumped it off to Pau after drawing in the double team, sometimes this meant having to shoot at a high volume for stretches,Kobe was picking his spots, getting the team involved, switching up his game..

While Lebron mostly just stuck to his pound the ball and either drive or kick it out at the last second routine whenever they needed buckets, and it didnt work enough to win.

Kobe won, Lebron lost & in the end that's all that matters.

The question was who was the best final performer, and wtf? Your really comparing Pau Gasol, who had more WS than Kobe himself, to Mo fkin williams?

[TheMilkyBarKid]

If that's how you feel then why respond.

Oh thats right because you're an attention whoring bran stan.
It was more of an expression of how stupid your statement was. The 09 magic was the same team LeBron averaged 38/8/8 against.
I may be a stan in your eyes, but at the very least I try and justify my perspective.
But thanks for giving me the attention I seek, you made my day bitch.

[knicksman]

its an insult to put kobe in the same tier as bran and pippen

[Warfan]

I'd rank the 15 finals performances something like this

12 LeBron
02 Kobe
13 LeBron
14 LeBron
01 Kobe
92 Pippen
91 Pippen
93 Pippen
08 Kobe
97 Pippen
07 LeBron
04 Kobe
96 Pippen
11 LeBron
00 Kobe

Some of them are interchangable, so i can see a few of them swapping places...

[SouBeachTalents]

Only Lebron stans think putting up great stats and losing > putting up slightly less great stats & winning..

Does anybody ever bring up Jordans playoffs prior to 91 to validate his greatness, including 89 when he averaged better stats than Lebron in 09 over a longer period of time.. Hell no.. Because who gives a shit how great your stats are if you lost the series?

And last time I checked Kobe & Bran the same number of all stars playing beside them, both Mo & Pau were all star reserves..

Kobe did whatever the team needed whenever the moment called for it, for stretches he was a facilitator, then he would have stretches where he dominated the ball & either shot/drove or dumped it off to Pau after drawing in the double team, sometimes this meant having to shoot at a high volume for stretches,Kobe was picking his spots, getting the team involved, switching up his game..

While Lebron mostly just stuck to his pound the ball and either drive or kick it out at the last second routine whenever they needed buckets, and it didnt work enough to win.

Kobe won, Lebron lost & in the end that's all that matters.

So by this logic, Kobe's 2000 Finals > LeBron's 2014 Finals

[havoc33]

I'd rank the 15 finals performances something like this

12 LeBron
02 Kobe
13 LeBron
14 LeBron
01 Kobe
92 Pippen
91 Pippen
93 Pippen
08 Kobe
97 Pippen
07 LeBron
04 Kobe
96 Pippen
11 LeBron
00 Kobe

Some of them are interchangable, so i can see a few of them swapping places...

LOL. It's so easy to see that you actually didn't watch basketball back in the 90s. Otherwise there is no way on earth you would have made your rankings like that.

[Warfan]

LOL. It's so easy to see that you actually didn't watch basketball back in the 90s. Otherwise there is no way on earth you would have made your rankings like that.

So are you gonna tell me which ones are in the wrong spot or not?? The first 7 or 8 are solid performances, and the rest are mediocre/poor. Like is said it isn't set in stone im open to others opinion, I'd probably change it up a tiny bit if I did it again. I think I might be underrating what pippen did in 96 atleast compared to the shockers that were kobe series against Detroit and lebrons against the spurs in 07. None of pippens finals performances are top 4...

12 lebron - no explanation needed, all around dominance
02 kobe - great series against a good defensive team, very efficient from the floor
13 lebron - struggled a bit but was great all around and had a great game 6 and legendary game 7
14 - highly efficient basketball, solid series scoring wise with a team around him breaking down
01 - played great after game 1, solid all-around performance on both ends of the floor

Please tell me which of pippens series should be put above these and why. They should fall just below these (maybe you could argue one of the series being one of the 5 best). I only put them above 08 kobe because he struggled games 4-6 and in game 1. I might have to reconsider putting that series higher

And the rest of the series below that besides 97 Pippen were shit

[Roundball_Rock]

12 LeBron
02 Kobe
13 LeBron
14 LeBron
01 Kobe
92 Pippen
91 Pippen
93 Pippen
08 Kobe
97 Pippen
07 LeBron
04 Kobe
96 Pippen
11 LeBron
00 Kobe


Pippen 91' and 92' should be over 01' Kobe.

Pippen: 21/9/7 and 21/8/8
Kobe: 25/8/6

So Kobe scored 4 more points but Pippen dished out 2 more assists in 92' and 1 more in 91'. Offensively 92' is a wash once you factor in assists. With 91' versus 01' Kobe generated slightly more offense but Pippen's defense on Magic, as Phil Jackson has said, "changed the fortunes" of the series. Absent that Chicago likely goes down 0-2.

96' Pippen was easily his worst Finals performance. He had three injuries he was playing through.

97' Pippen is underrated. He and MJ were the only offense the team had in the Finals and playoffs that year. Kukoc was third at 8 ppg in both the playoffs and Finals. Pippen did this in the Finals despite injuring his foot in the final game of the ECF and he had back issues as well (still went from a game winning dunk to close out the first round instead of a lay up--he wound up falling on his back as a result but he wanted to ensure the W).

Pippen for his Finals career averaged 19/8/6--and that is with his final game, in which his back was shot and he was playing limited minutes as a decoy, included. Exclude that and in his other 34 Finals games his line was 20/9/6 along with elite defense, defense which was key in 91' and 98' in particular. The 98' Finals, before he hurt his back, probably is evidence of the peak level of defensive dominance by a perimeter player. I have never seen a perimeter player impact the game more defensively than Pip in that series.

[havoc33]

So are you gonna tell me which ones are in the wrong spot or not?? The first 7 or 8 are solid performances, and the rest are mediocre/poor. Like is said it isn't set in stone im open to others opinion, I'd probably change it up a tiny bit if I did it again. I think I might be underrating what pippen did in 96 atleast compared to the shockers that were kobe series against Detroit and lebrons against the spurs in 07. None of pippens finals performances are top 4...

12 lebron - no explanation needed, all around dominance
02 kobe - great series against a good defensive team, very efficient from the floor
13 lebron - struggled a bit but was great all around and had a great game 6 and legendary game 7
14 - highly efficient basketball, solid series scoring wise with a team around him breaking down
01 - played great after game 1, solid all-around performance on both ends of the floor

Please tell me which of pippens series should be put above these and why. They should fall just below these (maybe you could argue one of the series being one of the 5 best). I only put them above 08 kobe because he struggled games 4-6 and in game 1. I might have to reconsider putting that series higher

And the rest of the series below that besides 97 Pippen were shit

First off; you are overrating Lebron's '13 Finals. Dude was missing in action for 3-4 games, so I would put '91 Pippen over that performance easily. Furthermore, you are exposing yourself with the low ranking of '97 Pippen. '97 Pippen was mediocre/poor? :oldlol: That series was one of his best Finals ever. He was at the peak of his powers as a defensive player, and caused immense problems for Utah throughout. Stockton said Pippen, not Jordan, had been the most difficult challenge about facing the Bulls in the Finals:

"

[Warfan]

Pippen 91' and 92' should be over 01' Kobe.

Pippen: 21/9/7 and 21/8/8
Kobe: 25/8/6

So Kobe scored 4 more points but Pippen dished out 2 more assists in 92' and 1 more in 91'. Offensively 92' is a wash once you factor in assists. With 91' versus 01' Kobe generated slightly more offense but Pippen's defense on Magic, as Phil Jackson has said, "changed the fortunes" of the series. Absent that Chicago likely goes down 0-2.

96' Pippen was easily his worst Finals performance. He had three injuries he was playing through.

97' Pippen is underrated. He and MJ were the only offense the team had in the Finals and playoffs that year. Kukoc was third at 8 ppg in both the playoffs and Finals. Pippen did this in the Finals despite injuring his foot in the final game of the ECF and he had back issues as well (still went from a game winning dunk to close out the first round instead of a lay up--he wound up falling on his back as a result but he wanted to ensure the W).

Pippen for his Finals career averaged 19/8/6--and that is with his final game, in which his back was shot and he was playing limited minutes as a decoy, included. Exclude that and in his other 34 Finals games his line was 20/9/6 along with elite defense, defense which was key in 91' and 98' in particular. The 98' Finals, before he hurt his back, probably is evidence of the peak level of defensive dominance by a perimeter player. I have never seen a perimeter player impact the game more defensively than Pip in that series.

Yes, that's why i said you could argue 91 or 92 above 01 kobe


irst off; you are overrating Lebron's '13 Finals. Dude was missing in action for 3-4 games, so I would put '91 Pippen over that performance easily. Furthermore, you are exposing yourself with the low ranking of '97 Pippen. '97 Pippen was mediocre/poor? That series was one of his best Finals ever. He was at the peak of his powers as a defensive player, and caused immense problems for Utah throughout. Stockton said Pippen, not Jordan, had been the most difficult challenge about facing the Bulls in the Finals:

"“Scottie was in the way a lot for all of us. He plays center field, and he does it well.”

Here's what Phil Jackson had to say after Game 6:

“A lot of people watch scorers, and Michael is the greatest scorer ever, but Scottie’s defense was a one-man wrecking crew tonight,” remarked Bulls coach Phil Jackson. “People who see the game as a whole see what he does on the basketball court.”

For all their similarities, Lebron and Pippen couldn't be more different. Lebron usually has inflated stats (like this years Finals, he played well in only short spurts), which causes people to overrate his performance. Pippen on the other hand usually gets underrated because a lot of people didn't watch the games back then, they're only box score watching. Which you proved yourself to be doing in this case.


Uh...i didnt say his 97 series was mediocre/poor, i said the first 8 or so were great/good series. I actually did put it just after the 93 series... I know pippen was a havoc defensively, but i'd rate it just below his 91-93 series because he was better/more consistent offensively whilst still playing great defense. He had terrible shooting nights of 4/13, 5/17, 6/17 in that series. Like i already said some of those series are interchangable, kobe struggled in 08 so that's why i said i'd put him below 91-93 and the 97 series.

And you're underrating LeBrons 13 finals...

It's my opinion aswell, you dont have too agree...

Im not gonna bother responding back :cheers:

[havoc33]

Uh...i didnt say his 97 series was mediocre/poor, i said the first 8 or so were great/good series.

Umm, yes you did:



The first 7 or 8 are solid performances, and the rest are mediocre/poor.

So which is it? Since you put '97 Pippen at #10, are you actually telling me that it's not only your basketball knowledge that is lacking, but your math skills as well??

[Anaximandro1]

Career

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-AOX8o4-WGMw/U9EliN22kUI/AAAAAAAADbE/fjqgHDhos0o/s1600/1.jpg

[Lebron23]

Lebron

[SouBeachTalents]

Career

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-AOX8o4-WGMw/U9EliN22kUI/AAAAAAAADbE/fjqgHDhos0o/s1600/1.jpg

Pippen & Kobe played with the two most dominant players of the past 25-30 years, which is why the Finals W-L is not a true representation of what they really achieved personally, just keep it with the stats

[Roundball_Rock]

Pippen & Kobe played with the two most dominant players of the past 25-30 years, which is why the Finals W-L is not a true representation of what they really achieved personally, just keep it with the stats

True--but they also did not have a third player of the caliber of Bosh when they played with MJ/Shaq.

[97 bulls]

Unfortunately. Stats dont tell the whole story. What about the defensive side? Pip dumps on both of these guys.

What he did against Magic in 91?

Or Stockton and the Jazz in 98?

If im not mistaken, Pippen led the playoffs in defensive rating twice.

[TheMarkMadsen]

So by this logic, Kobe's 2000 Finals > LeBron's 2014 Finals

Another guy who cant discuss ball

[SouBeachTalents]

Another guy who cant discuss ball

"Kobe won, Lebron lost & in the end that's all that matters."

That's what you said. Since winning is all that matters according to you, Kobe's 2000 Finals > LeBron's 2014 Finals by that logic