OKC Convincing 1st Rd Pick To Forego 750k Rookie Salary and play at 25k D League Rate

[JohnMax]

...to save capspace?

Presti plans to convince No. 29 pick Josh Huestis to hold off on signing his $750,000 guaranteed contract for the 2014-15 season and instead sign a contract around $25,000 to join the NBA D-League for a year. Huestis would then sign his Thunder deal a year from now or maybe two, at which point the standard guaranteed rookie contract would begin.

It could likely be that this is the result of a pre-draft deal in which the Thunder agreed to take Huestis in the first round so long as he agrees to spend a year or more playing at D-League wages to help the Thunder out.

You may ask how this is different than international "Eurostash" players. Those draft-and-stash players are usually second-round picks, which means there's no guaranteed NBA contract regardless. The ones who go in the first round but stay overseas are absolutely making much more than $25,000. Dario Saric, the No. 12 pick in the 2014 draft, signed a deal playing him around $3 million a year to stay in Turkey for a couple of years.

http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2014/7/23/5925979/josh-huestis-thunder-nba-rookie-d-league

[navy]

The Thunder make enough money lol. Josh Huestis would be foolish to take up Prest's offer.

Edit: Upon further research it appears that they are going to give him his guaranteed contract no matter what happens? If so, he can sign with the DLeague if he wants. Still shady though.

[BlazerRed]

The Thunder make enough money lol. Josh Huestis would be foolish to take up Prest's offer.

Edit: Upon further research it appears that they are going to give him his guaranteed contract no matter what happens? If so, he can sign with the DLeague if he wants. Still shady though.
Surely they can't do that. If so how is that any different to a team paying Lebron an extra 5mil under the table? Can't be right..

[D-FENS]

If this happens, that rookie is an idiot and FA's should bypass OKC

[ralph_i_el]

They probably made that a condition for drafting him in the first round.

They meet with these guys before they draft them. Presti was like: "dude you're going in the second round anyways unless we take you. Play a year in the D-league and the guaranteed deal is still on the table because of your first round pick status"

OKC doesn't have to sign this kid at all :confusedshrug:

[CelticBaller]

OKC loves having that cheap ass reputation

[Thorpesaurous]

This is not good. If you're in this tight a situation, just trade the pick for a future pick. Hell trade the first rounder for a second and a future second. Trade it for a second you can stash reasonably. Take a Euro guy you can arrange ahead of time to stay over. Hell, trade it for a future second rounder straight up and get hammered for it but at least you can say you're just protecting yourself from the cap without undermining the first round guarantee.

I would hope the players union would go nuts about this. But they have no leadership still. From the union's perspective, this should be as egregious as the Donald Sterling situation.

[ralph_i_el]

This is not good. If you're in this tight a situation, just trade the pick for a future pick. Hell trade the first rounder for a second and a future second. Trade it for a second you can stash reasonably. Take a Euro guy you can arrange ahead of time to stay over. Hell, trade it for a future second rounder straight up and get hammered for it but at least you can say you're just protecting yourself from the cap without undermining the first round guarantee.

I would hope the players union would go nuts about this. But they have no leadership still. From the union's perspective, this should be as egregious as the Donald Sterling situation.

Why? Just because you draft a player doesn't mean you have to sign them at all.

[GimmeThat]

not if the rest of the teams in the league says its not okay

[Rocketswin2013]

Can't imagine the bitchfest if Daryl Morey did something like this.


But oh no, it's wrong to treat players like "assets". Lol at the end of the day thats exactly what they are.

I feel for this guy though. He'll be making less than more than half the people on this forum.

[choppermagic]

Why? Just because you draft a player doesn't mean you have to sign them at all.

No, just because they are low balling him because of the situation he is in. If they were going to cheap out, they should have passed and let another team pick him and sign him. All for 700k savings is pretty petty thing to do. A rookie who has never played in the league and might wash out before ever playing an NBA game should be worried about taking this deal.

By OKC picking him in the draft, this player got stuck. i;m sure there is some sort of expectation that the team will take a fair look at signing him based on his selection.

Find the small savings another way and OKC can avoid a black mark on their reputation.

[D-FENS]

wow.....unless like you guys said, there was some sort of pre-draft discussion about this, that is a fvcked up thing to do.

It should scare rookies away from OKC at least

[JohnFreeman]

Durant is off to Washington

[D-FENS]

Durant is off to Washington

I agree. F*cked up situation in OKC. I hope the team bolts, fans revolt, and they have to move back to Seattle.

[christian1923]

Is this why they passed on Nick Johnskn :biggums:

[Inferno]

Cheap ass OKC :applause:

[Kblaze8855]

I hope they don't **** that kid over....

[Jailblazers7]

Yeah, the NBAPA should be crucifying OKC right now but they just can't get organized. This is a scummy move by OKC.

[Akrazotile]

Why peeps are rushing to judgement here???

If this kid was destined to be a second round pick he would have had ZERO guarantee of ever making an NBA dollar. If the Thunder came to him and said "hey, how would you like to play in the D League for a year at 25k and then make another guaranteed 750k the following year" thats a freaking life preserver.

If this kid was a second round pick (and OKC picked second to last in the first round i believe), they basically just put a gauranteed million in his pocket that otherwise wouldnt have happened. Hed be playing in the d league next year just the same but WITHOUT a guaranteed deal.


Seriously, wtf are people complaining about???

[SpecialQue]

This is why I think either Westbrook or Durant are going to bail if they don't get to the finals again before free agency. This franchise is cheap as fvck.

[D-FENS]

This is why I think either Westbrook or Durant are going to bail if they don't get to the finals again before free agency. This franchise is cheap as fvck.

Exactly. Clay Bennett doesn't deserve quality players.

[Akrazotile]

This is why I think either Westbrook or Durant are going to bail if they don't get to the finals again before free agency. This franchise is cheap as fvck.


Theyre doing it to preserve cap space so they can make another move before or during the season :facepalm

[SOD 21]

At the time OKC made this selection of Josh Huestis it didn't make a lot of sense for a team so strapped by the luxury tax threshold and why couldn't they simply trade the pick or draft another European player that could be stashed away for a couple of years.

But it is really a win win for both the franchise and the player in question. He wasn't going to be taken in the first round anyway and this gives him the security of a guaranteed future first-round draft contract and gives him the ability to develop with a franchise that is known for heavily investing in their youth.

Is there a franchise that invests more in their developmental team than Oklahoma City? They have a proven track record of drafting elite level talent and developing a high percentage of those players in recent years.

The obviously believe that Josh Heustis has a lead talent that can be developed given time and they are willing to invest that time and money in him.

[HurricaneKid]

Why peeps are rushing to judgement here???

If this kid was destined to be a second round pick he would have had ZERO guarantee of ever making an NBA dollar. If the Thunder came to him and said "hey, how would you like to play in the D League for a year at 25k and then make another guaranteed 750k the following year" thats a freaking life preserver.

If this kid was a second round pick (and OKC picked second to last in the first round i believe), they basically just put a gauranteed million in his pocket that otherwise wouldnt have happened. Hed be playing in the d league next year just the same but WITHOUT a guaranteed deal.


Seriously, wtf are people complaining about???

There is SLOTTING in the 1st round. Teams are considered scummy if they ask their players to take the max 20% adjustment from the slot (and some players hold out for the 20% extra). They are asking this kid to take a 97% cut from the slotted salary. And its almost certainly against the CBA.

[HurricaneKid]

At the time OKC made this selection of Josh Huestis it didn't make a lot of sense for a team so strapped by the luxury tax threshold and why couldn't they simply trade the pick or draft another European player that could be stashed away for a couple of years.

But it is really a win win for both the franchise and the player in question. He wasn't going to be taken in the first round anyway and this gives him the security of a guaranteed future first-round draft contract and gives him the ability to develop with a franchise that is known for heavily investing in their youth.

Is there a franchise that invests more in their developmental team than Oklahoma City? They have a proven track record of drafting elite level talent and developing a high percentage of those players in recent years.

The obviously believe that Josh Heustis has a lead talent that can be developed given time and they are willing to invest that time and money in him.

Is your boss at McDonalds doing you a favor to help you work in his kitchen for 21.75 cents an hour so he can help develop you?

Because that is exactly what OKC is doing here.

[Akrazotile]

Is your boss at McDonalds doing you a favor to help you work in his kitchen for 21.75 cents an hour so he can help develop you?

Because that is exactly what OKC is doing here.


If he guarantees me a 750k salary the following year? Sign me up.

[JohnMax]

Huestis should threaten to move to Seattle.

[HurricaneKid]

If he guarantees me a 750k salary the following year? Sign me up.

OKC CANNOT do that. And if they do they are spitting in the face of the CBA and will likely be stripped of future picks.

[noob cake]

Someone explain to me how this does not constitute an attempt at circumventing the CBA.

[Akrazotile]

Did anyone even read the OP???

The dude is guaranteed a 750,000 dollar NBA contract. That doesnt mean he has to take it the first year. How many Euros keep playing overseas after getting drafted????

This guy was going to be a second round pick w/o the Thunder drafting him and have NO GUARANTEED MONEY. Instead they took him at the end of the round on the agreement he would play THIS year in the dleague for 25k, and NEXT year guaranteed with the Thunder for 750,000k.


Theres nothing wrong with it. This is a WIN for him. ESPECIALLY if the guy agreed before the draft.


I swear, its like fans wanna play imaginary agent for all the players. Why are yall so into other peoples business? Dat liberal obsession with playing robin hood doe :bowdown:

[Akrazotile]

Someone explain to me how this does not constitute an attempt at circumventing the CBA.


Players arent required to sign the year theyre drafted. Nor are teams required to sign them the year theyre drafted.


People dont know this???? How long have draft picks been playing in Europe for???

Come on guys.

[NugzFan]

So 750k next year is better than getting 750k this year?

Lol

[Akrazotile]

So 750k next year is better than getting 750k this year?

Lol


No but its better than getting 25k both years which was a strong possibility without the Thunder drafting him :confusedshrug:



But arrrghhh, the big bad corporation is taking such egregious advantage of the wittle itty bitty innocent lil lamb. Not bc the lamb thinks so but bc you do. Quick! Social justice warriors unite! Dont let two parties reach their own agreement without YOUR approval! Get up and get loud! Get in someone elses business, oh hell yeahhhh!!!

[NugzFan]

No but its better than getting 25k both years which was a strong possibility without the Thunder drafting him :confusedshrug:

right now his decision is between 25k next year or 750k next year. what happened before the draft is now irrelevant

the thunder are being cheap asses.

[Akrazotile]

right now his decision is between 25k next year or 750k next year. what happened before the draft is now irrelevant

the thunder are being cheap asses.


Its easy to call people cheap when its not your money. Bottom line is if it's within the rules its really not your business. Why do you care so much about it?

[NugzFan]

Its easy to call people cheap when its not your money. Bottom line is if it's within the rules its really not your business. Why do you care so much about it?

we are fans posting on a message board - why should we care about anything? its all for discussion.

and the discussion is "why are the thunder being so cheap?"

[D-FENS]

http://i.imgur.com/O2F9NJv.png

[qrich]

Idiotic.

Why not just hold on to his rights and let him play wherever while calling up guys in the D-League already?

[HurricaneKid]

Its easy to call people cheap when its not your money. Bottom line is if it's within the rules its really not your business. Why do you care so much about it?

It is absolutely not within the rules. They are telling their draft pick they will not sign him this year (legal) but will guarantee him 750k next year (not legal).

This is absolutely illegal cap manipulation.

Would you be ok with it if the cavs signed a FA this year for 1M with the promise of paying him 12M next year when they had more cap space?

I've never heard of a team refusing to pay a player within the +/- 20% of the slot. FIBA has rules about drafting players under contract. And teams and agents can certainly make agreements to make sure a player doesn't have to get cut/develops properly.

They can certainly pay the man then send him to the NBDL to develop. But we are talking about refusing to pay a player and making them a promise for future compensation. Thats illegal.

[noob cake]

They can certainly pay the man then send him to the NBDL to develop. But we are talking about refusing to pay a player and making them a promise for future compensation. Thats illegal.

This is what every team has done in the past. OKC/Presti is trying to pull a quick one and needs to be nuked for this.

[aboss4real24]

OKC Is a garbage franchise

and this is a example y

[Droid101]

What if he shoots 20% for the season or blows out a knee?

He's a fool for not taking that guaranteed money, and OKC are being assholes.

[KendrickPerkins]

Smart move, OKC. :applause:

[hawksdogsbraves]

OKC is so freaking cheap :roll:

[Le Shaqtus]

Man... What an asshole, losing respect for OKC.

[navy]

The dude is guaranteed a 750,000 dollar NBA contract.
Except he's really not. If he gets injured the Thunder could very well tell him he's shit out of luck.

Hopefully they are true to their word and give him his contract next year nomatter what happens.

[JimmyMcAdocious]

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/oklahoma-city-thunder-josh-huestis-d-league-first-round-draft-pick/

Agreed on before the draft. Huestis is taking a chance on himself, I guess. Good luck.


The union actually views the Huestis move as an example of player empowerment that could have major long-term implications. “This is an example of the player flipping the script,” says Ron Klempner, the interim executive director of the union. “The player essentially drafted his team.”

The deal is proof that teams have an ambivalent relationship with low-first-round picks, since Oklahoma City is dodging the rookie scale here, Klempner says. But that can cut both ways. “The rookie wage scale was management-imposed,” he says. “Players have always been in favor of more open negotiation for rookies. Maybe [Huestis] will lead to a full reconsideration of the rookie wage scale.”

In other words: If teams want wiggle room with someone picked in the late 20s, then they should grant that same negotiating wiggle room for Anthony Davis and Andrew Wiggins. The NBA has been down that road before, and would fight hard against any removal of the rookie scale, but Klempner has a point.

For those asking about how it's legal. Doesn't really give an answer, but confirms it is.

[alanLA92]

Cheap Ass Thunder. :roll:

[Crown&Coke]

I am confused on how this would be considered illegal?

Players are stashed overseas all the time. This just happens to be a DLeague stash. Teams give players guarantees in draft interviews, is it illegal to tell a guy they will draft him, but will stash him overseas?

If the player balks, he doesn't get drafted. If he accepts, he will get drafted. Is that illegal to put a stipulation like that on a drafted player?

OKC saved some scratch, and the player is taking a HUGE gamble. And with only 25K potential banking, he probably won't have the funds to take out an insurance policy that will net him a considerable amount if something terrible happens. The onus should be on the player rather than the team in this particular situation imo.

[SOD 21]

Is your boss at McDonalds doing you a favor to help you work in his kitchen for 21.75 cents an hour so he can help develop you?

Because that is exactly what OKC is doing here.

Fortunately, I make considerably more than that per hour.

But Josh Heustis said there were only two teams that he would consider making this type of arrangement with and that was Oklahoma City and San Antonio because of their reputation and their ability to develop players.

He is a smart player, who just graduated from Stanford, and is willing to forgo that immediate contract in the NBA to have OKC help develop his talents with a promise of a fully guaranteed contract down the road.

I could see some potential danger with some franchises doing this if they don't like a player down the road and don't honor their agreement

[Akrazotile]

[QUOTE=SOD 21]Fortunately, I make considerably more than that per hour.

But Josh Heustis said there were only two teams that he would consider making this type of arrangement with and that was Oklahoma City and San Antonio because of their reputation and their ability to develop players.

He is a smart player, who just graduated from Stanford, and is willing to forgo that immediate contract in the NBA to have OKC help develop his talents with a promise of a fully guaranteed contract down the road.

I could see some potential danger with some franchises doing this if they don't like a player down the road and don't honor their agreement

[HurricaneKid]

Fortunately, I make considerably more than that per hour.

But Josh Heustis said there were only two teams that he would consider making this type of arrangement with and that was Oklahoma City and San Antonio because of their reputation and their ability to develop players.

He is a smart player, who just graduated from Stanford, and is willing to forgo that immediate contract in the NBA to have OKC help develop his talents with a promise of a fully guaranteed contract down the road.

I could see some potential danger with some franchises doing this if they don't like a player down the road and don't honor their agreement… But I don't see that with the franchise like Oklahoma City or San Antonio. But obviously a verbal agreement was reached ahead of time in which all parties were in agreement that it was beneficial to both.

The players union should be ashamed. They are only OKing a clearly horrific precedent so they can cry for Wiggins, etc to get deals outside of the scheduled rookie scale. I don't care if Huestis agreed to it. SOMEONE lost a guaranteed 1.5M deal because of this arrangement; and its an arrangement that CLEARLY skirted the CBA. It was probably KJ McDaniels. Do you want to tell his mom she can't have her new house because some kid from Stanford agreed to work for peanuts and that its perfectly reasonable?

[noob cake]

Can someone help me understand this.

How much can OKC pay Josh Heustis next year? I understand that the agreed upon amount is 750k. Is there a cap (other than the theoretical maximum for a player of his experience)? My worry is that this essentially amounts to under the table negotiation. Hypothetical, Wiggins signs for 25k to give Cavs 5m extra to sign free agent. Then boom next year, you sign Wiggins to his rookie contract. This can't possibly be legal.

Can OKC do a D-League call up this year and get Heustis to play on the team?

If Josh Heustis has D-league contract and not an NBA contract, can other teams sign him or do OKC somehow still manage to maintain his draft rights even though he is playing in the US? There a lot of D-League stash players under NBA ~1m contracts across the league.

[Droid101]

Can someone help me understand this.

How much can OKC pay Josh Heustis next year? I understand that the agreed upon amount is 750k. Is there a cap (other than the theoretical maximum for a player of his experience)? My worry is that this essentially amounts to under the table negotiation. Hypothetical, Wiggins signs for 25k to give Cavs 5m extra to sign free agent. Then boom next year, you sign Wiggins to his rookie contract. This can't possibly be legal.

Can OKC do a D-League call up this year and get Heustis to play on the team?

If Josh Heustis has D-league contract and not an NBA contract, can other teams sign him or do OKC somehow still manage to maintain his draft rights even though he is playing in the US? There a lot of D-League stash players under NBA ~1m contracts across the league.
As far as I know (I just skimmed the Salary Cap FAQ: http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q49), this is the deal.

Since he was selected 29th, the base contract amount the team is allowed to offer him is $918,000. Teams can offer 80% of that up to 120% of that amount (usually they go 120% so they don't look cheap). So, 80% of that base number is what they're looking at since he's not really a great player with bargaining room, hence the around 750k people are talking about.

According to the CBA rules, the team has until the next draft day to offer him his rookie contract. If they don't offer it to him by then, he becomes eligible for the next draft.

The team can also choose to waive their draft pick, in which case any team can sign him for any salary. (Example, the Bulls in 96 had a late first round pick, Travis Knight, that they didn't want to give the rookie scale contract, so they released him. The Lakers then signed him for the minimum.)

So I'm not really entirely sure what route OKC is taking. Are they releasing him? Are they going to wait until the day before the next draft to offer him the rookie scale? What's the dilly?

[russwest0]

lol at everyone calling OKC cheap asses. They agreed on this before the draft and had Huestis not done it he would have been a second round pick with no guarantee to make any roster.

OKC is doing it so that they can keep their final roster spot open.

[NugzFan]

lol at everyone calling OKC cheap asses. They agreed on this before the draft and had Huestis not done it he would have been a second round pick with no guarantee to make any roster.

OKC is doing it so that they can keep their final roster spot open.

okc is being cheap. they dont want to pay a player even 750k.

[russwest0]

okc is being cheap. they dont want to pay a player even 750k.

It's about filling the last roster spot on a championship team dipshit and the player agreed to this all beforehand because he would have been a 2nd rounder anyway. They'll let him develop this year and sign him next year when guys like Perk and Collison are gone.

They did the same shit with Grant Jerrett who was a 2nd round pick last year. They signed him to the D-League and drafted him to their D-League team and then signed him last year to finish out the year and then signed him to a 4 year deal this offseason.

It's all about keeping that roster spot open in case something comes up.

[outbreak]

what if he breaks his leg in the d-league, would OKC still have to sign him even if he can't play ball?

[Droid101]

what if he breaks his leg in the d-league, would OKC still have to sign him even if he can't play ball?
They are under no obligation to do so, no.

[outbreak]

They are under no obligation to do so, no.
I imagine they would probably give him some sort of job with the organisation though wouldn't they? If they don't have some other under the table agreement then he is crazy to do it imo

[NoGunzJustSkillz]

What happens if he doesn't agree to this? Does he become a free agent?

[russwest0]

What happens if he doesn't agree to this? Does he become a free agent?

He can go overseas and re enter for the draft next year, but since he was a 2nd round prospect anyways it's not likely that he does that.

It's pretty clear that he agreed to this beforehand with the Thunder. He'll likely get signed after next year.

[bdreason]

Since when are teams allowed to negotiate guaranteed 1st round contracts?


If they didn't want to use the cap space, they should have traded down to the 2nd round.

[Droid101]

Since when are teams allowed to negotiate guaranteed 1st round contracts?


If they didn't want to use the cap space, they should have traded down to the 2nd round.
Or, they can just renounce the pick. That is in the CBA.

What they are doing is weird under the table nonsense.

[Akrazotile]

what if he breaks his leg in the d-league, would OKC still have to sign him even if he can't play ball?


They wouldnt have to, but they would if they already gave him their word. It would be far more damaging to them in the long term to pull the chair out on an agreemenr like that than to simply pay a guy 750k. If he wasnt able to play they could simply give him the contract and then cut him to get the roster spot back. Either way he still gets p-a-d.

[Akrazotile]

Or, they can just renounce the pick. That is in the CBA.

What they are doing is weird under the table nonsense.


What's being done under the table? A lot of teams talk about scenarios with potential signees before the draft. Small market teams at the top of the draft sometimes even have to get a guy's word he'll show up there if they draft him.

The draft process is an interview process and youre allowed to talk about employment terms just like any other job. They reached an agreement on his employment and now theyre putting it into motion. Its no different than anything else. Social justice warriors crying just to cry.

[J.101]

I don't know why this guy would take that chance. If he blows his knee out and he doesn't get paid he'll look stupid he should take the 750k immeditately and if it doesn't work out he's a stanford graduate and will be able to find a job paying more than 25k easily

[russwest0]

By the way this was all proposed by his agent.

http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2014/7/24/5930829/josh-huestis-thunder-rookie-contract-agents

[SOD 21]

By the way this was all proposed by his agent.

http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2014/7/24/5930829/josh-huestis-thunder-rookie-contract-agents

How funny.

All this criticism towards Oklahoma City and it was his agent that came to them with this proposal, along with the Spurs, with this suggestion because they feared that he'd go undrafted due to how deep this year's draft was and he didn't want to play over in Europe for various reasons.

He wanted guaranteed money and trusted two organizations to develop him as a player and have enough integrity to keep their word, OKC and San Antonio.

So it was Heustis' idea presented to OKC and the Spurs by his agent. Let's see if this ends all the criticism or not.

[Draz]

Really bad of okc