2nd three peat Jordan is overrated.

[Ca$H]

1st three peat Jordan is the undisputed GOAT and nobody comes close to his greatness. However, isn't 2nd three peat Jordan just a more efficient version of peak Kobe?

[navy]

1st three peat Jordan is the undisputed GOAT and nobody comes close to his greatness. However, isn't 2nd three peat Jordan just a more efficient version of peak Kobe?
I'm trying to figure out the problem here. :confusedshrug:

[LoneyROY7]

Jordan is overrated.

FIFY.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

"More efficient version of peak Kobe" - sounds like an amazing player to me

[(e)]

How can a three-peat be overrated? Not like that happens very often lol

[Prometheus]

negged

[Ca$H]

"More efficient version of peak Kobe" - sounds like an amazing player to me

I think Pippen would have helped peak Kobe be more efficient. Kobe had the extra burden of facilitating the offense plus playing with big men limited Kobe's post up opportunities. What I'm getting at is Peak Kobe could have easily replaced 2nd three peat Jordan and won 3 titles. However, he would win zero titles with the 1st three peat bulls.

[TheMarkMadsen]

He wasnt more effecient than 2peat Kobe?

Jordan 96: 58% TS

Jordan 97: 57% TS

Jordan 98: 53% TS


Kobe 08: 58% TS

Kobe 09: 56% TS

Kobe 10: 55% TS

Playoffs

Jordan 96: 56% TS

Jordan 97: 52% TS

Jordan 98: 55% TS


Kobe 08: 58% TS

Kobe 09: 56% TS

Kobe 10: 57% TS

...

[Ca$H]

He wasnt more effecient than 2peat Kobe?

Jordan 96: 58% TS

Jordan 97: 57% TS

Jordan 98: 53% TS


Kobe 08: 58% TS

Kobe 09: 56% TS

Kobe 10: 55% TS

Playoffs

Jordan 96: 56% TS

Jordan 97: 52% TS

Jordan 98: 55% TS


Kobe 08: 58% TS

Kobe 09: 56% TS

Kobe 10: 57% TS

...

Kobe's regular FG% would be the same as MJ's if he replaced MJ on the Bulls due to Pippen's facilitation and more room/opportunities in the post.

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

07-09 Kobe>96-98 MJ

[Roundball_Rock]

What I'm getting at is Peak Kobe could have easily replaced 2nd three peat Jordan and won 3 titles. However, he would win zero titles with the 1st three peat bulls.

Kobe on the bulls?

1990: ECF
1991: Champs
1992: Champs
1993: Finals
1994: Champs
1995: ECF
1996: Champs
1997: Champs
1998: Finals
1999: ECSF

So 5 rings, 7 Finals and 9 ECF's imo.

[Sarcastic]

Most of the players in the "Top 10" all time, have never even 3 peated once. Coming back after a 1.5 year hiatus, and 3 peating for a second time is overrated?


http://media2.giphy.com/media/p0MRx3MvARwpW/giphy.gif

[TheMan]

Jeff is definitely paying some of these guys to post idiotic threads for clicks :facepalm

[Calabis]

1st three peat Jordan is the undisputed GOAT and nobody comes close to his greatness. However, isn't 2nd three peat Jordan just a more efficient version of peak Kobe?

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view1/1357165/confused-o.gif

[sportjames23]

1st three peat Jordan is the undisputed GOAT and nobody comes close to his greatness. However, isn't 2nd three peat Jordan just a more efficient version of peak Kobe?


Did you really see 2nd three-peat MJ?

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Does this guy realize how good a "more efficient version of peak Kobe" would be? :oldlol:

[sportjames23]

07-09 Kobe>96-98 MJ


96-98 MJ = 3 for 3 in the Finals

07-09 Kobe = First Round exit and 1 for 2 in the Finals


:confusedshrug:

[sportjames23]

FIFY.


And this bitch here. :facepalm

[fpliii]

98 MJ is underrated IMO. Pippen missed half the year, and the stacked supporting cast from the previous two seasons was falling apart.

96 MJ was super muscular, put on a lot of mass. He lost like 10 or 15 lbs the next year to deal with tendinitis I believe. At times, looked like his younger self.

[Angel Face]

3/3 in the finals, 3x FMVP completed 2nd three peat, 2x MVP (1996, 1998), Bulls have 72-10 record, 69-13 the next year, All this happened after MJ returned to basketball from his almost 2 years of retirement / playing baseball.

:applause:

[TheMarkMadsen]

96-98 MJ = 3 for 3 in the Finals

07-09 Kobe = First Round exit and 1 for 2 in the Finals


:confusedshrug:

Clearly they had the same level of supporting cast.

Smush, Kwame & Odom cancel out Pippen, Rodman & Kukoc

[Micku]

Kobe's regular FG% would be the same as MJ's if he replaced MJ on the Bulls due to Pippen's facilitation and more room/opportunities in the post.

Hm...Kobe would have to play more off the ball then. Kobe moves well without the ball, but he doesn't attack as quickly as MJ and tends to get into a rhythm with more dribbles. It gives more time for the defense to recover. It's just his style I think.

[Micku]

Does this guy realize how good a "more efficient version of peak Kobe" would be? :oldlol:

A more efficient version of peak Kobe is MJ, lol. And being more athletic.

[Smoke117]

He wasnt more effecient than 2peat Kobe?

Jordan 96: 58% TS

Jordan 97: 57% TS

Jordan 98: 53% TS


Kobe 08: 58% TS

Kobe 09: 56% TS

Kobe 10: 55% TS

Playoffs

Jordan 96: 56% TS

Jordan 97: 52% TS

Jordan 98: 55% TS


Kobe 08: 58% TS

Kobe 09: 56% TS

Kobe 10: 57% TS

...

That might matter...if the rules didn't change so much in 05 that made it so much easier to score for guards and harder their opposition to defend them.

[Micku]

That might matter...if the rules didn't change so much in 05 that made it so much easier to score for guards and harder their opposition to defend them.

Well, MJ percentage went down significantly after having a stretch of bad games when Payton guard him. A few of them were shots he usually makes.

In 97, MJ attempted 3.5 attempts from 3 and only made 19.4%. That would do it in terms of TS% and eFG%. Plus that Miami Heat series.

In 98, MJ was old. One of his great seasons in terms of grinding it out.

And Kobe was still in his prime in 08-10. Kobe 08 played smarter than usual as well.

[DonDadda59]

1st three peat Jordan is the undisputed GOAT and nobody comes close to his greatness. However, isn't 2nd three peat Jordan just a more efficient version of peak Kobe?

So you're saying that peak Kobe was even more overrated? :confusedshrug:

And Past prime Jordan may have just been the most clutch mother f*cker who ever walked the face of the Earth. Dude literally willed his team to rings.

[Roundball_Rock]

98 MJ is underrated IMO. Pippen missed half the year, and the stacked supporting cast from the previous two seasons was falling apart.


Yeah, and where was Chicago without Pippen? They slipped from 69 wins in 97' to a 56 win pace without him. WITH Pippen the Bulls barely beat the Pacers in the ECF. Without him that does not happen.

It is true the "supporting cast" struggled, but that is because their shooting percentages plummeted without Pippen there to make them better. When Scottie returned, everyone saw a significant boost in their shooting percentages and CHI went from a 56 win pace to a 67 win pace.

[305Baller]

So you are saying that Pippen ws the main force, the Alpha or the Beta, (whichever) and that you are elevating the all-around SF as the most important position?

[DatAsh]

Yeah, and where was Chicago without Pippen? They slipped from 69 wins in 97' to a 56 win pace without him. WITH Pippen the Bulls barely beat the Pacers in the ECF. Without him that does not happen.

It is true the "supporting cast" struggled, but that is because their shooting percentages plummeted without Pippen there to make them better. When Scottie returned, everyone saw a significant boost in their shooting percentages and CHI went from a 56 win pace to a 67 win pace.

Scottie Pippen was a really good player? :confusedshrug:

Why are virtually all your post in some way related to how overrated Jordan was and/or how underrated/great Lebron is?

[Jacks3]

He's not more efficient than peak Kobe.

Why do people insist on saying things that simply aren't true?

:confusedshrug:

[DonDadda59]

Scottie Pippen was a really good player? :confusedshrug:

Why are virtually all your post in some way related to how overrated Jordan was and/or how underrated/great Lebron is?

Because he's just a Pauk alt.

[DatAsh]

Because he's just a Pauk alt.

Oh is he? I don't really keep track of these types of things. I guess it makes sense though.

[3ball]

He carried the bulls in the 1998 Finals when Pippen and Rodman were MIA the entire series... Rodman only averaged 8 rebs per game and Pippen averaged 15ppg on 41% shooting, worse than Wade this year.

The way the entire 1998 season went, Jordan clearly saved himself for the playoffs where his PER jumped to 28.1 (up from 25.3 in the regular season), then he ended the Finals with a game winner.

Then there was the flu game in 1997 Finals to go along with more game winners.

Still pretty much had it to imo.


Jordan at 35 over Shawn Kemp and Illgauskas
http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/jordan_over_shawn_kemp_and_25c362013cb3822dbe498c2 5c78b2244.gif


Jordan at 34 over Shaq
http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/Jordan_dunks_on_Shaq_7a78ff0a205611c2aaf2fcf2af13f 605.gif


Ostertag 1998
http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/Jordan_dunks_on_Ostertag_47f5b1aaa51700634363c3b17 c56dcba.gif

[Soundwave]

You forgot where MJ dunked over Mutombo I think at age 34 too.

2nd threepeat Jordan is more of a display of heart/will power. Things like the flu game, coming back from the Orlando loss, and winning the second threepeat with the game winning defensive and offensive plays is a work of art. Plus leading the Bulls to a record 72-10 season.

To me that's just as impressive as anything during the first threepeat, even though that era has its own charms.

[Big#50]

He had the most stacked team in the league. The league sucked. What other teams were good? The Jazz and the Sonics...
Not overrated though. He was still the best player in the world. He had no rival. Wish we had a chance to against prime Kobe. Battle The Spurs and Lakers.

[Soundwave]

He had the most stacked team in the league. The league sucked. What other teams were good? The Jazz and the Sonics...
Not overrated though. He was still the best player in the world. He had no rival. Wish we had a chance to against prime Kobe. Battle The Spurs and Lakers.

94-95 and 95-96 Orlando Magic is better than any team in the league the last two years (prime Shaq demolishes any front court in today's NBA + 4 other legit scoring options).

The post-94 Knicks weren't exactly roll overs either, they would last year's version of the Heat far more headaches than that candy-ass version of the Pacers.

'98 Pacers were a very, very good team also.

Spurs were good too, not MJ's fault DRob couldn't get over the hump into the Finals until he retired again.

There's lots of decent squads, the Mutombo-Steve Smith Hawks probably would win the East last year, they're about the equivalent of today's Pacers, probably a bit better actually. I'd say the Zo + LJ Hornets would do quite well in today's East too.

[BoutPractice]

There definitely is a lot of similarity between 08-10 Kobe and 96-98 Jordan. (I'm taking title seasons, but in terms of level of play 07-09 might be a better selection)

Jordan played smarter, but it's not a complete blasphemy to suggest that you could have gotten similar results replacing one with the other.

Besides, if you accept that, you must also be prepared to accept that Kobe never touched peak Jordan level. His best was what people called decline when talking about Jordan.

[ILLsmak]

Most of the players in the "Top 10" all time, have never even 3 peated once. Coming back after a 1.5 year hiatus, and 3 peating for a second time is overrated?


http://media2.giphy.com/media/p0MRx3MvARwpW/giphy.gif

He was old tho. I see what he means. I don't wanna say dude could hardly dunk, but he was definitely a cerebral player. He probably had a much better understanding of the game and was much more driven after his dad got kilt.

Plus there was plenty of fixing. So so much fixing.

-Smak

[ILLsmak]

Because he's just a Pauk alt.

double post: pauk has alts, I am sure, but I think you are giving him a lot of credit in terms of being able to disguise himself. He has a certain way of typing... he's not American, is he? He says funky things like paukisms.

I'd say roundball is someone else's alt.

-Smak

[HurricaneKid]

Wow. I assumed everyone knew this. Turns out not to be the case. At all.

Pippen led the team in RAPM all three years (albeit narrowly in the first two years). In 08 Jordan fell all the way to #22 in RAPM and was barely above avg defensively.

[LAL]

Yeah, and where was Chicago without Pippen? They slipped from 69 wins in 97' to a 56 win pace without him. WITH Pippen the Bulls barely beat the Pacers in the ECF. Without him that does not happen.

It is true the "supporting cast" struggled, but that is because their shooting percentages plummeted without Pippen there to make them better. When Scottie returned, everyone saw a significant boost in their shooting percentages and CHI went from a 56 win pace to a 67 win pace.
I remember Phil Jackson complaining to the media about Mj's shot selection in the beginning of the season (98) because he was not shooting good enough (injury to his finger?), but yeah it was a struggle without pippen.. losing to the celtics and teams like that.

MJ was past his prime after he came back from his first retirement, but he was still the best.

[Ca$H]

There definitely is a lot of similarity between 08-10 Kobe and 96-98 Jordan. (I'm taking title seasons, but in terms of level of play 07-09 might be a better selection)

Jordan played smarter, but it's not a complete blasphemy to suggest that you could have gotten similar results replacing one with the other.

Besides, if you accept that, you must also be prepared to accept that Kobe never touched peak Jordan level. His best was what people called decline when talking about Jordan.

Kobe doesn't come close to peak Jordan. Jordan was far superior athletically and had huge hands. Kobe's athleticism is nothing special. It is on par with JR Smith's athleticism.

[Roundball_Rock]

He carried the bulls in the 1998 Finals when Pippen and Rodman were MIA the entire series...

:roll:

Pippen's defense led them to 3 of their 4 wins and a 3-1 lead. Only by Game 5 when his back gave out did his contributions diminish--he was just a decoy in Game 6 and was in and out of that game. However, he was the front-runner for FMVP through 4 games (again, when Chicago won 3 of their 4 games)--yet MJ stans are saying he was "MIA"?

At Every Turn, Jazz Finds Pippen; The Bulls' Consummate Defender Picks Apart the Pick-and-Roll

By MIKE WISE

Published: June 9, 1998

Scottie Pippen was buzzing John Stockton like an annoying gnat in the backcourt, filling the passing lanes the way Coach Jerry Sloan wishes his players would and taking a charge from Karl Malone under the basket. On the next Utah Jazz possession, Pippen caused more havoc.

''He is probably the only guy in basketball who draws offensive fouls anymore,'' Sloan said today. ''He had a ton of them last night, I think eight or nine. That was about as good a display of being able to step up and take a charge as you'll see.''

Pippen, a roving linebacker in high-tops, is using the finals to reaffirm his position as the game's most complete and chaos-inspiring defensive player. On Sunday night, he was largely responsible for the lowest scoring total in National Basketball Association history since the advent of the shot clock, when the Chicago Bulls pulverized the Jazz, 96-54, to take a two-games-to-one lead in the four-of-seven-game series.

Pippen roamed the floor, spreading his 6-foot-7-inch angular body from player to player on the Jazz roster. Twenty-six Utah turnovers and an unprecedented finals rout later, everyone wanted to know how one player could cause such disruption.

He has obliterated the criticism he once received for not being physical enough. This post-season alone, he shut down Charlotte's Glen Rice in the second round and discombobulated the Pacers' offense in the Eastern Conference finals.

http://www.nytimes.com/1998/06/09/sp...art.html?sec=&

But it was all Mike. :bowdown:

[Roundball_Rock]

double post: pauk has alts, I am sure, but I think you are giving him a lot of credit in terms of being able to disguise himself. He has a certain way of typing... he's not American, is he? He says funky things like paukisms.

I'd say roundball is someone else's alt.

-Smak

Who has a similar writing and argument style to me?