Michael Jordan At PG - 10 Triple Doubles In 11 Games

[Soundwave]

http://www.complexmag.ca/sports/2014/01/michael-jordan-point-guard-in-1989-posted-triple-double-10-of-11-games

Was switched to PG in 1988-89. Goes on to rack up 10 triple doubles in 11 games (!).

33.6 points, 11.4 assists and 10.8 rebounds during this stretch.

Would've been interesting if he had been tried at PG more or if the Bulls asked him to play that type of a role more.

Jordan had some pretty amazing near triple doubles in this stretch too, like in the same month he had a 34 point, 17 assist, 7 rebound, 6 steals game vs. the Blazers :lol

A couple of games before vs. the Lakers he had 21 points, 16 assists, 8 rebounds, compared to 20/12/8 from Magic.

Ridiculous.

Jordan was actually a fairly underrated passer, he didn't make a point of it to make too many flashy passes, but he was generally a willing passer if someone else had an easier basket and often made the correct basketball play.

[Quizno]

he's the GOAT

[Hey Yo]

Very impressive, buuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuut


And while the numbers were undoubtedly great, recording 14 of his 28 career regular season triple-doubles that season, they somehow didn't translate to wins as the Bulls went 5-6 during his run.

[Soundwave]

Very impressive, buuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuut

The team wasn't playing well that month, it happens. It was part of the reason why the Bulls changed him to PG, they wanted to try it. I don't think it meshed with the way the other players played the game though, having MJ focus on scoring at SG simply fit the Bulls to a tee.

But he could definitely do other things if he really wanted to as is evident by this remarkable stretch.

It simply was a better fit for the Bulls to have him play a more traditional SG role.

[livinglegend]

Michael ''Empty stats'' Jordan

[atljonesbro]

Jordan is the most notorious stat padder of all time. No surprise here.

[Soundwave]

Aaaaaand right on cue, here come the haters. :lol

Doesn't stat pad = hero ball

Whatever suits their sad razor thin agenda.

[Bless Mathews]

Goat gonna goat.

[OldSchoolBBall]

Roundhead Rockforbrains in T-minus 3...2...

[Soundwave]

The only game in this 11 game stretch where Jordan didn't get a triple double was against the defending champion Pistons where he had this off night:

40 points, 11 assists, 7 rebounds on 61% shooting :lol

Bulls still lost by 2.

[sportjames23]

http://www.complexmag.ca/sports/2014/01/michael-jordan-point-guard-in-1989-posted-triple-double-10-of-11-games

Was switched to PG in 1988-89. Goes on to rack up 10 triple doubles in 11 games (!).

33.6 points, 11.4 assists and 10.8 rebounds during this stretch.

Would've been interesting if he had been tried at PG more or if the Bulls asked him to play that type of a role more.

Jordan had some pretty amazing near triple doubles in this stretch too, like in the same month he had a 34 point, 17 assist, 7 rebound, 6 steals game vs. the Blazers :lol

A couple of games before vs. the Lakers he had 21 points, 16 assists, 8 rebounds, compared to 20/12/8 from Magic.

Ridiculous.

Jordan was actually a fairly underrated passer, he didn't make a point of it to make too many flashy passes, but he was generally a willing passer if someone else had an easier basket and often made the correct basketball play.


:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

[HomieWeMajor]

Statpadding like a prime Rondo

[Soundwave]

47 points, 13 assists, 11 rebounds for MJ on Apr. 13th/89 ... is that the highest scoring official triple double post 1975? I know Kareem did it back then.

[played0ut]

Jordan is the most notorious stat padder of all time. No surprise here.

And that goddamned statpadder STILL won 6 chips, 6 FMVP and 5MVP!


There's no justice in this world. :oldlol:

[TheMan]

Jordan is the most notorious stat padder of all time. No surprise here.
Shook

[Calabis]

And that goddamned statpadder STILL won 6 chips, 6 FMVP and 5MVP!


There's no justice in this world. :oldlol:

How did he do it?

http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/2745745/lefrown.gif

King "Empty Stat" James

[Soundwave]

Another fun fact, Jordan has the most triple doubles in NBA history for a shooting guard.

[fpliii]

Including 7 in a row, super impressive. Tied with Oscar for the second longest streak ever (1/1/61-1/12/61), and behind only Wilt (3/8/68-3/20/68, 9 in a row, 11 out of 12). No surprise, these are possibly the three GOAT players in terms of the box score. Crazy numbers.

[sportjames23]

Jordan is the most notorious stat padder of all time. No surprise here.

I swear some kids here have no shame in showing their stupidity.

[atljonesbro]

Stat padder


LA Times, April 11, 1989

Since switching to point guard for the Chicago Bulls, Michael Jordan has become statistic conscious. He has started checking with statisticians to see how close he is to a triple-double. He had a string of seven consecutive triple-doubles broken Friday night.

"The guys at the scorer's desk let me know what I need," Jordan said.

So, too, do the Bulls' a$sistant coaches.

"They keep reminding me when I get back to the huddle," Jordan said. "They say, 'You need three more of this. You need four more of that.' "


The Sun-Sentinel, April 9, 1989

During breaks in games, Jordan has been wandering over to the scorer`s table to get updates on how many rebounds, a$sists and points he needs to fill his three double-figure quotas.

"The guys at the scorer`s desk let me know what I need," he said. "They tell me, `You need three a$sists; you need two rebounds."

Jordan also has been double-checking the figures with Chicago a$sistants.

"They keep me in tune," he said. "They keep reminding me when I come back to the huddle, how much I need."

Last Sunday, at home against New Jersey, the 10th a$sist was Jordan`s final goal.

"I knew I had nine a$sists," he said, "and I looked at (forward) Brad (Sellers), and said, `Brad, can I count on you for my 10th?` And he said, `yeah` and hit a jumper from the baseline."

[fpliii]

47 points, 13 assists, 11 rebounds for MJ on Apr. 13th/89 ... is that the highest scoring official triple double post 1975? I know Kareem did it back then.
Bird had 49 in 92. Here are all the TDs of 45+ pts (apologies for the wonky formatting):


Name Date PTS REB AST

Wilt Chamberlain 03/18/1968 53 32 14
Elgin Baylor 12/13/1961 52 25 10
Wilt Chamberlain 02/13/1963 51 29 11
Richie Guerin 02/25/1962 50 11 13
Elgin Baylor 02/13/1963 50 15 11
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 01/19/1975 50 15 11
Larry Bird 03/15/1992 49 14 12
Oscar Robertson 03/14/1964 48 11 13
Oscar Robertson 12/27/1964 48 10 10
Wilt Chamberlain 03/07/1964 47 13 10
Alvan Adams 02/22/1977 47 18 12
Larry Bird 02/14/1986 47 14 11
Michael Jordan 04/13/1989 47 11 13
Isiah Thomas 02/08/1983 46 10 11
Tracy McGrady 02/23/2003 46 10 13
Vince Carter 04/07/2007 46 16 10
Oscar Robertson 12/27/1960 45 12 13
Wilt Chamberlain 03/03/1963 45 33 10
Oscar Robertson 02/17/1964 45 11 12
Pete Maravich 04/10/1977 45 11 10
Michael Adams 01/31/1991 45 11 12

[Soundwave]

Stat padder

You totally should've auditioned for this movie:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/52/Salt_film_theatrical_poster.jpg

[Soundwave]

Bird had 49 in 92. Here are all the TDs of 45+ pts (apologies for the wonky formatting):


Name Date PTS REB AST

Wilt Chamberlain 03/18/1968 53 32 14
Elgin Baylor 12/13/1961 52 25 10
Wilt Chamberlain 02/13/1963 51 29 11
Richie Guerin 02/25/1962 50 11 13
Elgin Baylor 02/13/1963 50 15 11
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 01/19/1975 50 15 11
Larry Bird 03/15/1992 49 14 12
Oscar Robertson 03/14/1964 48 11 13
Oscar Robertson 12/27/1964 48 10 10
Wilt Chamberlain 03/07/1964 47 13 10
Alvan Adams 02/22/1977 47 18 12
Larry Bird 02/14/1986 47 14 11
Michael Jordan 04/13/1989 47 11 13
Isiah Thomas 02/08/1983 46 10 11
Tracy McGrady 02/23/2003 46 10 13
Vince Carter 04/07/2007 46 16 10
Oscar Robertson 12/27/1960 45 12 13
Wilt Chamberlain 03/03/1963 45 33 10
Oscar Robertson 02/17/1964 45 11 12
Pete Maravich 04/10/1977 45 11 10
Michael Adams 01/31/1991 45 11 12

Awesome work. Incredible game by Larry Legend.

[fpliii]

Awesome work. Incredible game by Larry Legend.
Indeed, especially since he was on his last legs at that point, and his back was completely gone. I didn't start watching until the next season, but from watching games after the fact, whenever he wasn't on the floor, he was lying down on the floor stretching out most of the time.

Brutal as hell.

[LAZERUSS]

Wilt's last 12 games of his '67-68 season:

1. 31 points, 21 rebounds, 15 assists, 12-20 Fg/FGA
2. 22 points, 19 rebolunds, 13 assists, 8-14 FG/FGA
3. 38 points, 28 rebounds, 9 assists, 16-21 FG/FGA
4. 13 points, 24 rebounds, 10 assists, 5-10 FG/FGA
5. 28 points, 27 rebounds, 10 assists, 11-15 FG/FGA
6. 22 points, 30 rebounds, 12 assists, 9-12 FG/FGA
7. 16 points, 20 rebounds, 10 assists, 7-10 FG/FGA
8. 25 points, 21 rebounds, 13 assists, 11-15 FG/FGA
9. 35 points, 15 rebounds, 10 assists, 16-18 FG/FGA
10. 53 points, 32 rebounds, 14 assists, 24-29 FG/FGA
11. 22 points, 27 rebounds, 19 assists, 10-22 FG/FGA
12. 26 points, 17 rebounds, 12 assists, 11-?

We don't have his FG% in that 12th game, but overall...he was ONE assist away from 12 straight TD's.

Here were his cumulative stats in those 12 games:

27.6 ppg, 23.4 rpg, 12.3 apg, and on a .694 FG% (missing one game.)

[played0ut]

Wilt's last 12 games of his '67-68 season:


I think it's a damned crying shame that there aren't vids/stats recorded for these old-timers.


Bird had 49 in 92. Here are all the TDs of 45+ pts (apologies for the wonky formatting):



negged for wonky formatting.

[SHAQisGOAT]

Indeed, especially since he was on his last legs at that point, and his back was completely gone. I didn't start watching until the next season, but from watching games after the fact, whenever he wasn't on the floor, he was lying down on the floor stretching out most of the time.

Brutal as hell.

True. And not just his back but also his feet (after surgery to remove bone spurs). Overweight due to all of that too. Could barely move out there, still did stuff like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=woAK1i-o2wI

[3ball]

bird was amazing.. arguably the most skilled player ever.. had sick handle that a lot of people don't realize.. could have played the primary ballhandler role in his prime, but didn't need to - as it turns out - in a vacuum, a primary ballhandler generally isn't as effective overall as someone playing off-ball... seems like the point of the thread in a way... MJ showed he can do what Bron does as the primary ballhandler (and do it better), yet he was STILL most effective as the off-guard.

AI would have been proud of Bird...

http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/Larry_Bird_with_the_Modern_Ive_3b4802c1d99d689592f 8fdfa78244708.gif


just look at the guys on the bench below - nuff said... also, notice how much more defense the offensive players had to score on and amongst back then - no spacing - so open shots weren't expected like in today's game... instead, mid-range, contested shots were the norm.. shots that today are run from like the plague.. bird's era was a tougher, more pure game.

http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/Larry_Bird_Gets_Mad_Respect_Fr_530ffe442719b52602d a3513971099df.gif

[SHAQisGOAT]

bird was amazing.. arguably the most skilled player ever.. had sick handle that a lot of people don't realize.. could have played the primary ballhandler role in his prime, but didn't need to - as it turns out - in a vacuum, a primary ballhandler generally isn't as effective overall as someone playing off-ball... seems like the point of the thread in a way... MJ showed he can do what Bron does as the primary ballhandler (and do it better), yet he was STILL most effective as the off-guard.

AI would have been proud of Bird...

http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/Larry_Bird_with_the_Modern_Ive_3b4802c1d99d689592f 8fdfa78244708.gif


just look at the guys on the bench below - nuff said... also, notice how much more defense the offensive players had to score on and amongst back then - no spacing - so open shots weren't expected like in today's game... instead, mid-range, contested shots were the norm.. shots that today are run from like the plague.. bird's era was a tougher, more pure game.

http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/Larry_Bird_Gets_Mad_Respect_Fr_530ffe442719b52602d a3513971099df.gif

:applause: :bowdown:

[dubeta]

ultra fast paced, no zone defence, bad man defenders, notorious stat padding box score checking = not impressed

[played0ut]

I ****ing love Larry Bird. Every NBA player loves him. Jordan practically gushes over him haha. Kobe, Durant...

Bird's edge skillwise is that basketball wise, he's near fundamentally flawless. There was a part on Open Court where they were all talking about the greats (MJ and Bird) benefitted immensely from great college coaches who taught them all how to play the game properly (the right cuts, footwork, hands in passing lanes, etc).

They would say that although not as fast/strong/agile as others, their skills made the game come easier to them, which makes it look effortless.




The clip on Bird's fundamentals. Starts at 2:30 AND on MJ too (bit before), to stay on topic. :P

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_CCkatCABYc

[played0ut]

Also, on Bird.

Everyone doubts him (like casuals and posters here) because all the see is a white man who can't jump that high or run that fast.

Even in the NBA players (that didn't play him) wouldn't give him credit. Patrick Ewing and his friends would trash talk about Bird all the time. After Patrick actually played against him he called all his friends and told them,

"We were wrong about Bird. That mother****er is the truth!"

:oldlol:

[Roundball_Rock]

Yeah and that experiment failed. They were 34-24 at that point. This was after a 13-12 start to the season. That meant they had gone 21-12 after that poor start. Pippen became a starter which "coincided" with the upturn in wins. So they were 34-24 (59%). What happened after that? 45-37. Yup. 11-13 (46%) to close the year.

This had consequences. They fell to the #6 seed which meant they faced the 57 win division champs in the first round instead of the 52 win Hawks. It almost cost them. Fortunately, MJ hit that legendary game winner and they got out the first round but that is how close they came to losing in the first round because they drew another strong opponent (Chicago's first round opponents from 1985-1989: 59 wins, 67 wins, 59 wins, 57 wins and 57 wins).

That experiment showed MJ's individual brilliance but it didn't work in the team sense. As Doug Collins said "Michael won't let go of the ball." If the experiment worked they would have kept MJ at the point but they took a committee approach to playmaking in 90' (Jordan, Pippen, Paxson) and then in 91' they brought in a gimmick offense never before used in the NBA to facilitate ball movement (which means there obviously was a problem in that regard) and shifted primary ballhandling/playmaking duties to another player (90' was the last time MJ would lead Chicago in assists).

[livinglegend]

Yeah and that experiment failed. They were 34-24 at that point. This was after a 13-12 start to the season. That meant they had gone 21-12 after that poor start. Pippen became a starter which "coincided" with the upturn in wins. So they were 34-24 (59%). What happened after that? 45-37. Yup. 11-13 (46%) to close the year.

This had consequences. They fell to the #6 seed which meant they faced the 57 win division champs in the first round instead of the 52 win Hawks. It almost cost them. Fortunately, MJ hit that legendary game winner and they got out the first round but that is how close they came to losing in the first round because they drew another strong opponent (Chicago's first round opponents from 1985-1989: 59 wins, 67 wins, 59 wins, 57 wins and 57 wins).

That experiment showed MJ's individual brilliance but it didn't work in the team sense. As Doug Collins said "Michael won't let go of the ball." If the experiment worked they would have kept MJ at the point but they took a committee approach to playmaking in 90' (Jordan, Pippen, Paxson) and then in 91' they brought in a gimmick offense never before used in the NBA to facilitate ball movement (which means there obviously was a problem in that regard) and shifted primary ballhandling/playmaking duties to another player (90' was the last time MJ would lead Chicago in assists).

:applause: :applause:
He needed Pippen and Phil to show him how to win. He was just another ball hog.

[played0ut]

:applause: :applause:
He needed Pippen and Phil to show him how to win. He was just another ball hog.

MJ learned and improved like few others in NBA history. :applause: Then he started winning. Oh, how he kept winning and winning and winning. :pimp:

[Asukal]

:applause: :applause:
He needed Pippen and Phil to show him how to win. He was just another ball hog.

Maybe bran needs to call pippen and phil to teach him how to win 6 rings as the man. :oldlol:

:rolleyes:

[livinglegend]

MJ learned and improved like few others in NBA history. :applause: Then he started winning. Oh, how he kept winning and winning and winning. :pimp:

Yeah, thanks to Pippen and the stacked Bulls team, otherwise he would be another Barkley or Malone.

[juju151111]

Yeah and that experiment failed. They were 34-24 at that point. This was after a 13-12 start to the season. That meant they had gone 21-12 after that poor start. Pippen became a starter which "coincided" with the upturn in wins. So they were 34-24 (59%). What happened after that? 45-37. Yup. 11-13 (46%) to close the year.

This had consequences. They fell to the #6 seed which meant they faced the 57 win division champs in the first round instead of the 52 win Hawks. It almost cost them. Fortunately, MJ hit that legendary game winner and they got out the first round but that is how close they came to losing in the first round because they drew another strong opponent (Chicago's first round opponents from 1985-1989: 59 wins, 67 wins, 59 wins, 57 wins and 57 wins).

That experiment showed MJ's individual brilliance but it didn't work in the team sense. As Doug Collins said "Michael won't let go of the ball." If the experiment worked they would have kept MJ at the point but they took a committee approach to playmaking in 90' (Jordan, Pippen, Paxson) and then in 91' they brought in a gimmick offense never before used in the NBA to facilitate ball movement (which means there obviously was a problem in that regard) and shifted primary ballhandling/playmaking duties to another player (90' was the last time MJ would lead Chicago in assists).
Didn't they make it to the ECF with MJ doing the something and pushed the Pistons to 6 games and they lose cause Pippen barely played in game 6. The next year his team choked in game 7 too.

[played0ut]

Yeah, thanks to Pippen and the stacked Bulls team, otherwise he would be another Barkley or Malone.

Yes, you're absolutely ight!

Not everyone can learn and improve so much like MJ (so openminded and magnanimous to be willing to learn off his teammates and coach T_T) :applause:

[jstern]

Amazing numbers. Though I read that they went away from that because it just took too much energy to have a scorer like Jordan do that for a season or a long stretch of time.

[SHAQisGOAT]

I ****ing love Larry Bird. Every NBA player loves him. Jordan practically gushes over him haha. Kobe, Durant...

Bird's edge skillwise is that basketball wise, he's near fundamentally flawless. There was a part on Open Court where they were all talking about the greats (MJ and Bird) benefitted immensely from great college coaches who taught them all how to play the game properly (the right cuts, footwork, hands in passing lanes, etc).

They would say that although not as fast/strong/agile as others, their skills made the game come easier to them, which makes it look effortless.




The clip on Bird's fundamentals. Starts at 2:30 AND on MJ too (bit before), to stay on topic. :P

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_CCkatCABYc

:applause:


Also, on Bird.

Everyone doubts him (like casuals and posters here) because all the see is a white man who can't jump that high or run that fast.

Even in the NBA players (that didn't play him) wouldn't give him credit. Patrick Ewing and his friends would trash talk about Bird all the time. After Patrick actually played against him he called all his friends and told them,

"We were wrong about Bird. That mother****er is the truth!"

:oldlol:

Very true.

:lol
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anOQy4rsGzk


Lots of people were having many doubts about Bird before he became a pro, in the NBA world or outside of it.

Same happened with his teammate Cedric Maxwell, who thought Larry Bird was all hype and wouldn't do much in the NBA... Then in their first practice, Bird was murking him, and Cornbread realized that he was the real deal and would be their main-man from the get go.

Magic said that after playing with Bird at the world invitational tournament, he called his boys saying that Larry was the real deal.

Michael Cooper has a similar "story":

To Cooper, Larry Bird was still merely larry bird (lowercase intended) -- an overrated Great White Hype who captured a nation's imagination more for his pigmentation than his playing ability. Cooper had seen it all before. Doug Collins. Mike Dunleavy. Tom McMillen. Mike O'Koren. White guys came, white guys went. Larry Bird? Who the hell was scared of Lar--

"I'm getting ready to wear your f----- ass out."

The words were uttered softly. Almost in a whisper. Had the white boy just spoken in such a manner to Michael Cooper? Had he really said such a thing? Barely two minutes had passed in the opening quarter and Bird was already slinging yang.

"Bring it, mother------," replied Cooper, hardly a linguistic wallflower. "Bring it."

Larry Bird brought it. Celtics guard Nate Archibald dribbled the ball down the court. Cooper followed Bird toward the top of the key -- "Larry's standing there talking to me, talking to me. Nonstop talking" -- then shadowed him as he walked down the lane and circled around a Robert Parish pick. "About to wear your ass out," Bird said. "Wear ... it ... out ... " Bird pushed off Cooper. Cooper pushed off Bird. "Bring it," the Laker said. "C'mon, f----- ... "

Bird jumped back, caught a pass from Johnson. "I'm still here, m-----------," Cooper said, grabbing a handful of Bird's green-and-white jersey. "I'm still here." Abdul-Jabbar, guarding Parish, stepped off his man to help. Bird jumped to shoot, and Cooper lunged toward him -- certain he was about to block the shot.

Then, quick as a dragonfly, Bird somehow brought the ball down and wrapped it around to a wide-open Parish. "I still have no idea how he got the ball to him," said Cooper, "because my hands are up in the air, Kareem is coming out -- and the only way he could have gotten it to him was to lob it over the top. But he didn't lob it over the top. I'm still confused." Cooper spun, just in time to see Parish slam the basketball through the hoop.

He looked back toward Bird, who smirked. "Wearing your ass out, m-----------," he said. "Wearing it out. ... "

(...)

"Covering Larry -- that meant everything to me," he said. "People said he was overrated ... f---, no. If anything, he was underrated. What made him so good was you didn't just have to worry about his scoring. You had to worry about this guy's defense, his passing, his ability to save balls from going out of bounds, his ability to set picks and get people open. Larry could beat you in many ways. And he was the hardest player for me to play against, because you had to guard against all those things. Most players are one- or two-dimensional. Larry was ten-dimensional."

Even when Larry was a complete shell of his former self, young Shawn Kemp said:

Larry taught me a lesson. People criticized Larry... Larry is getting old, his back is in pain... So I go out, I hit a couple of shots on him, I was like man, said a couple of words to him, next thing you know, he is shooting threes in my face, he's talking to me, he ended up with like 47 points. He taught me a lesson that regardless of who you are, how good you are, you have to bring it every night, you got to get your respect that way.

People had to learn the hard way, and that man more than proved his worth... To his temmates, opponents, coaches, people outside the league, so on....

[livinglegend]

Yes, you're absolutely ight!

Not everyone can learn and improve so much like MJ (so openminded and magnanimous to be willing to learn off his teammates and coach T_T) :applause:

I am a livinglegend! I am always right!:applause: :applause:

[played0ut]

Amazing numbers. Though I read that they went away from that because it just took too much energy to have a scorer like Jordan do that for a season or a long stretch of time.

I've read about it too. I thought it was because the teams focused everything on him so they needed someone else as a facilitator.



:applause:

Very true.

:lol

Bird has said that Cooper and Pippen did best out of everyone guarding against him.

Someone also asked Magic once if Bird was really that good. Magic replied that Bird was the ONLY one he was ever scared to go up against.

Also, on the Dream Team. He was really nowhere near as good as he was anymore. In scrimmages and watnot he couldn't score much anymore either. There was a Dream Team interview with Malone. He was asked about Bird. He said matter of factly that Bird was one of the better players on that team. (Team with 10 HOF's, with all time GOATS at each position).

[Soundwave]

:applause: :applause:
He needed Pippen and Phil to show him how to win. He was just another ball hog.

You need to unwrap your d*ck and pass through virginity. Next.

[Young X]

That same year he took a horrible 47 win team all the way to game 6 of the ECF upsetting a 57 win team and 53 win team while averaging 37/8/8. They might've won the ECF too if Pippen didn't get injured in game 6.

That playoff run might be the most impressive thing Jordan's ever done if you really think about it. Series winning jumper against the Cavs, crazy performances, almost upsetting 3 teams in an extremely tough conference as a huge underdog, etc. Completely willed his team.

[Soundwave]

Yeah and that experiment failed. They were 34-24 at that point. This was after a 13-12 start to the season. That meant they had gone 21-12 after that poor start. Pippen became a starter which "coincided" with the upturn in wins. So they were 34-24 (59%). What happened after that? 45-37. Yup. 11-13 (46%) to close the year.

This had consequences. They fell to the #6 seed which meant they faced the 57 win division champs in the first round instead of the 52 win Hawks. It almost cost them. Fortunately, MJ hit that legendary game winner and they got out the first round but that is how close they came to losing in the first round because they drew another strong opponent (Chicago's first round opponents from 1985-1989: 59 wins, 67 wins, 59 wins, 57 wins and 57 wins).

That experiment showed MJ's individual brilliance but it didn't work in the team sense. As Doug Collins said "Michael won't let go of the ball." If the experiment worked they would have kept MJ at the point but they took a committee approach to playmaking in 90' (Jordan, Pippen, Paxson) and then in 91' they brought in a gimmick offense never before used in the NBA to facilitate ball movement (which means there obviously was a problem in that regard) and shifted primary ballhandling/playmaking duties to another player (90' was the last time MJ would lead Chicago in assists).

Can you provide context for the quote? Or better yet a link? How is a guy that's getting 14/16/17 assists not letting go of the ball?

The reason the experiment didn't work is because it would take too much energy for any player to put up those numbers continually and that the Bulls NEEDED Jordan to play the style he did.

MJ at PG threw Paxson/Armstrong off and it also threw Pippen off because he was getting used to being the primary ball handler.

But of the six losses, two were close games vs. the Pistons that could've gone either way.

The Bulls also won three games earlier in the month with MJ playing more of a distributor role, the 16 assist game vs. the Lakers (win), the 17 assist (lol) game vs. the Blazers was also a win.

It does show though that Jordan could be a huge producer in other areas, the fact that he could do this just like it was turning on light switch is pretty frightening actually.

These aren't moderate numbers in other areas, some of them are ridiculous. 17 assists? 16 assists? 14 assists? Often times with 30+ points? Guy just turned it up like it was nothing.

[JT123]

Can you provide context for the quote? Or better yet a link? How is a guy that's getting 14/16/17 assists not letting go of the ball?

The reason the experiment didn't work is because it would take too much energy for any player to put up those numbers continually and that the Bulls NEEDED Jordan to play the style he did.

MJ at PG threw Paxson/Armstrong off and it also threw Pippen off because he was getting used to being the primary ball handler.

But of the six losses, two were close games vs. the Pistons that could've gone either way.

The Bulls also won three games earlier in the month with MJ playing more of a distributor role, the 16 assist game vs. the Lakers (win), the 17 assist (lol) game vs. the Blazers was also a win.

It does show though that Jordan could be a huge producer in other areas, the fact that he could do this just like it was turning on light switch is pretty frightening actually.

These aren't moderate numbers in other areas, some of them are ridiculous. 17 assists? 16 assists? 14 assists? Often times with 30+ points? Guy just turned it up like it was nothing.
Slurp slurp

[Soundwave]

Slurp slurp

I knew your mom was loud, just put the music up a little louder.

[mehyaM24]

i remember watching a game an ISH poster uploaded where jordan registered a TD within 30 something minutes. pretty impressive

thing is, the bulls went 5-6 during this stretch. jordan, while a great scorer, wasn't effective at being the all around player pippen was. the ball stuck with him and part of that reason is because the guy was in LOVE with statpadding.


since switching to point guard for the Chicago Bulls, Michael Jordan has become statistic conscious. He has started checking with statisticians to see how close he is to a triple-double. He had a string of seven consecutive triple-doubles broken Friday night.

"The guys at the scorer's desk let me know what I need," Jordan said.

So, too, do the Bulls' a$sistant coaches.

"They keep reminding me when I get back to the huddle," Jordan said. "They say, 'You need three more of this. You need four more of that.' "

> Michael Jordan stat padding trying to get Triple Doubles? Yep. - Photo posted in BX SportsCenter | Sign in and leave a comment below!

The Sun-Sentinel, April 9, 1989

During breaks in games, Jordan has been wandering over to the scorer`s table to get updates on how many rebounds, a$sists and points he needs to fill his three double-figure quotas.

"The guys at the scorer`s desk let me know what I need," he said. "They tell me, `You need three a$sists; you need two rebounds."

Jordan also has been double-checking the figures with Chicago a$sistants.

"They keep me in tune," he said. "They keep reminding me when I come back to the huddle, how much I need."

Last Sunday, at home against New Jersey, the 10th a$sist was Jordan`s final goal.

"I knew I had nine a$sists," he said, "and I looked at (forward) Brad (Sellers), and said, `Brad, can I count on you for my 10th?` And he said, `yeah` and hit a jumper from the baseline."

in a way, jordan fans should be happy that he stopped this reckless behavior. as pippen grew and pjax came in, they both changed the entire outlook of the bulls offense.

[Soundwave]

Haha, it's the only thing Jordan haters have left.

They're like that b*tch who's homeless on the street and they literally only have that shirt on their back.

Take that away and they got nothing.

I'll take it off anyway.

Proof that Jordan could play the distributor role at the switch of a light if he wanted to.

The Bulls used MJ as a scorer because he was the best scorer on the planet and it fit the team best. Paxson/Armstrong needed the PG minutes and Pippen needed to get his touches as the ball distributor, so playing Jordan at PG threw the team off rhythm.

Still 10 freaking triple doubles in 11 games is no fluke (damn near 11 in a row, 40/14/7 was the only non-triple dub game in 11).

It shows he could play that style if he really wanted to.

[mehyaM24]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=htkwlXj51b4

^another case of jordan statpadding. LOL at how blatant he was.

5-6 is 5-6 though. dat jordan system :facepalm

[Soundwave]

Which shows you what? Stat padding players like LeBron is nothing to throw a party over.

Jordan could put up better numbers at 6'6 at the drop of the hat if he felt like it. It just didn't suit the make up of the Bulls so he didn't play that style.

And actually Jordan played PG for more than just these 11 games, he started after missing a game against the Celtics (where the Bulls got blown out).

Their record was pretty good, but then they hit a losing streak after two close losses to the Pistons which continued for a while even when MJ was switched back to PG.

[mehyaM24]

Which shows you what? Stat padding players like LeBron is nothing to throw a party over.

Jordan could put up better numbers at 6'6 at the drop of the hat if he felt like it. It just didn't suit the make up of the Bulls.

lebron can record triple doubles and all-around numbers within the TEAM concept. THAT is the difference. jordan, as many posters have illustrated, was keen on getting numbers outside the offense, win or no win.

you're a bulls fan right? pippen and phil jackson were the greatest thing to happen to jordan. without them, save a few points (on good efficiency), there wouldn't be much of a difference between he and TMac.

1-9 in the playoffs (without pippen) sounds like something TMac achieved.

[juju151111]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=htkwlXj51b4

^another case of jordan statpadding. LOL at how blatant he was.

5-6 is 5-6 though. dat jordan system :facepalm
Mj made it to the ECF doing the same thing he did all season passing the ball. but Scottie forgot to show up in game 6. Mj beat two teams ahead of him in the standings and had a real chance at Detroit but Scottie acted like a bitch.

[juju151111]

lebron can record triple doubles and all-around numbers within the TEAM concept. THAT is the difference. jordan, as many posters have illustrated, was keen on getting numbers outside the offense, win or no win.

you're a bulls fan right? pippen and phil jackson were the greatest thing to happen to jordan. without them, save a few points (on good efficiency), there wouldn't be much of a difference between he and TMac.

1-9 in the playoffs (without pippen) sounds like something TMac achieved.
Mj led the Bulls to the ECF has a PG distributing the Ball. The Bulls choked in 89 including a Injury for sorry ass Pippen. How did Mj put up those stats all the way to the ECF if it wasn't inthe team concept numnuts.

[livinglegend]

MJ's record without Pippen starting, 1985-1989

38-44, lost 1-3 in the first round.
9-9, swept in the first round.
40-42, swept in the first round.
50-32, tied 2-2 in the first round after blowing a 2-0 lead. (Pippen starts Game 5, beasts, Bulls win and finally get out the first round with MJ)
13-12.

Pippen becomes a starter for the final 2/3 of 89' and the Bulls win 9 of 11 and go on a 32-15 roll after starting 13-12...and never looked back...

[Soundwave]

lebron can record triple doubles and all-around numbers within the TEAM concept. THAT is the difference. jordan, as many posters have illustrated, was keen on getting numbers outside the offense, win or no win.

you're a bulls fan right? pippen and phil jackson were the greatest thing to happen to jordan. without them, save a few points (on good efficiency), there wouldn't be much of a difference between he and TMac.

1-9 in the playoffs (without pippen) sounds like something TMac achieved.

Actually lets look at the actual facts.

Jordan was switched to PG after missing a game against the Celtics, which was their 3rd loss in a row. After switching to PG, the Bulls would then go 11-3 in their next 14 games.

They then lost two close games to the Pistons, which led to a losing streak, I would say the team was still a little fragile in those days.

And really Jordan was excellent in both the games vs. the Pistons. Pippen was horrible, scoring 6 points in one and 15 points in the other on 29% FG. I think he got hurt. Not a slight on Pippen, the Pistons were not easy to play against, but Jordan could not beat the Pistons alone, and I think losing back to back versus them set the team into a temporary funk. The Pistons clearly at that time could get into the Bulls' heads, there's no denying it.

All's well that end's well though, Jordan went back to SG and that formula eventually propelled the Bulls to be the greatest modern basketball dynasty. Something I see a lot of people are still seethingly jealous over. Not one, not two, not three ... right? Expect one guy actually (over)delivered.

[OldSchoolBBall]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=htkwlXj51b4

^another case of jordan statpadding. LOL at how blatant he was.

5-6 is 5-6 though. dat jordan system :facepalm

What the hell is that video supposed to show? That Jordan was a PHENOMENAL passer? :oldlol: All his passes there were of the quick strike variety and were the proper plays. Not once did he dominate the ball and dribble around for 10-12 seconds, using multiple pick & rolls until a shooter opened up like, say, Lebron from '06-14 does. Nice try though.

[juju151111]

Mj led the Bulls in playoffs asts in 89,90,91,93:applause:

[Soundwave]

What the hell is that video supposed to show? That Jordan was a PHENOMENAL passer? :oldlol: All his passes there were of the quick strike variety and were the proper plays. Not once did he dominate the ball and dribble around for 10-12 seconds, using multiple pick & rolls until a shooter opened up like, say, Lebron from '06-14 does. Nice try though.

Yeah that's one thing I liked about MJ, he would not hold the ball forever, if there was a pass to make he simply made a simple, quick-strike pass for a score.

It wasn't as flashy as Magic (though MJ did have some impressive highlight reel assists), but he was a rock solid fundamental player that just happened to be the best scorer of the modern era.

The explosive scoring and game-winning/big time clutch plays just overshadowed everything else, but don't get it twisted ... MJ was a very complete player as well and could raise certain elements of his game if he needed to.

[Nash]

Didn't Lebron also have an amazing stretch of games when he started at PG for the Cavs a few years back?

[Eric Cartman]

Kobe had a great strech playing pg 2 years ago after chucking up all those shots.

[plowking]

Why even bring up a stretch where his coach criticized him for his style of play, and called him out for going to the scorers table to check his stats?

[jstern]

Why even bring up a stretch where his coach criticized him for his style of play, and called him out for going to the scorers table to check his stats?

From the quotes that I read on this thread, it seems like the coaches were encouraging him, letting him how much he needed during huddles, perhaps as a way of motivating him. Doesn't feel like a bad tactic.

[LeBird]

Can you provide context for the quote? Or better yet a link? How is a guy that's getting 14/16/17 assists not letting go of the ball?

You don't get it because you're stuck in hero-ball school. You don't understand that sometimes the best option for a PG is not to get the assist but to be the pass before the assist, or the pass before the pass for someone else to get an assist.

If you have one guy explicitly stat-padding to get assists, it ruins the entire flow of a team's game.

[Roundball_Rock]

A recurring theme in the 80's and when Jackson first became coach was MJ didn't play within the team concept, i.e. was a ballhog. The problem was when other players weren't getting the ball they would not get a chance to get in rhythm. So when MJ passed it to them, they were cold and missed he would use that as "evidence" to cut them off more. When Pippen became the primary ballhandler he made sure everyone would stay involved and would work the offense to get struggling players easy shots to boost their confidence.

[juju151111]

A recurring theme in the 80's and when Jackson first became coach was MJ didn't play within the team concept, i.e. was a ballhog. The problem was when other players weren't getting the ball they would not get a chance to get in rhythm. So when MJ passed it to them, they were cold and missed he would use that as "evidence" to cut them off more. When Pippen became the primary ballhandler he made sure everyone would stay involved and would work the offense to get struggling players easy shots to boost their confidence.
Mj got everyone easy bucket s come playoffs time.

[juju151111]

You don't get it because you're stuck in hero-ball school. You don't understand that sometimes the best option for a PG is not to get the assist but to be the pass before the assist, or the pass before the pass for someone else to get an assist.

If you have one guy explicitly stat-padding to get assists, it ruins the entire flow of a team's game.
He led the Bulls to the ECF playing that way and Pip was injured in game 6 that year. Don't see Wtf u mean.

[LeBird]

He led the Bulls to the ECF playing that way and Pip was injured in game 6 that year. Don't see Wtf u mean.

Yeah he was so great at it that they kept him as PG...oh wait. :facepalm

[Hands of Iron]

You don't get it because you're stuck in hero-ball school. You don't understand that sometimes the best option for a PG is not to get the assist but to be the pass before the assist, or the pass before the pass for someone else to get an assist.

If you have one guy explicitly stat-padding to get assists, it ruins the entire flow of a team's game.

Has this guy been on it like that for the last ****ing week? Since the whole Gretzky thread?!

:oldlol: :applause: :facepalm

[GimmeThat]

I was taught by someone about this concept once.

the team assist numbers generally don't vary too much over the long haul.

[HomieWeMajor]

MJ was statpadding like every NBA 2K MyPlayer ever

[bizil]

Guys like MJ and Kobe are great scorers who are also great passers. Lebron and Big O are great passers who are also great scorers. There's a difference in terms of how they see the game. MJ was easily capable of playing PG. In his era, he could play the position better anybody other than a Magic, Isiah, Payton, or Stockton. But MJ's a better scorer than a passer, so his best position is SG. But make no mistake, MJ could be your team's primary ball handler from the SG spot. But you could also flat out put him at PG as well and he would dominate too.

[Soundwave]

You don't get it because you're stuck in hero-ball school. You don't understand that sometimes the best option for a PG is not to get the assist but to be the pass before the assist, or the pass before the pass for someone else to get an assist.

If you have one guy explicitly stat-padding to get assists, it ruins the entire flow of a team's game.

I've said it many times that LeBron James "passing" is overrated for this very reason and that he reduced Wade/Bosh to spot up shooters.

Just pointing though for people who think that filling up a box score is the be-all, end-all ... MJ could do that just fine.

Jordan also destroyed Magic in the '91 Finals playing this similar role though, just to sh*t on him and let everyone know who the better player was.

That said I do think Jordan was underrated as a passer. Very often made the right decisions with the ball and was quick at making the pass when the opportunity for a quick score was there.

And as has been pointed out, the Bulls were actually playing well with Jordan at PG. They were 11-3 initially with him at PG after losing 3 straight, they then went on a losing streak after two close losses to the Pistons in which Jordan played great but everyone else sh*t the bed.

After those two losses, the team went on a small losing streak. That's more evident of the Pistons being inside the Bulls head at the time (which was obvious) than anything else. They were playing great basketball with MJ at PG for a fairly prolonged stretch before that, the Pistons losses just sent them into a temporary tail spin.

[juju151111]

Yeah he was so great at it that they kept him as PG...oh wait. :facepalm
He still made it to the ECF dumbass

[bizil]

I don't think Lebron's passing is overrated. I don't hear many people say he's a better passer than guys like Magic, Stockton, Isiah, Kidd, or Nash. But I do think that he and Bird are the best passing SF's of all time. Bird from a stationery position is as good of a passer as anybody. But LeBron can break down a defense or run a fastbreak like the great PG's do. LeBron is clearly an elite above average passer. The only guys who are better passers are the absolute best passers of all time. Numbers don't lie and I wouldn't be surprised if Lebron ends up with over 9,000 assists when his career is over. He already has nearly 5,800 dimes in his career.

[TheBigVeto]

It just shows that triple double is easiest to achieve from PG position.