Lebron lead team in some things, not in others and, well, don't ask mod to fix titles

[Nash]

:biggums:

Has that ever happened before?


EDIT: Just checked. Illgauskas had more rebounds than Lebron in 2007.

[buddha]

ball hog / 2 for 5

[navy]

2011

Bosh 8.5
Lebron 8.4

[Purch]

So you made this thread, and didnt even fact check it :facepalm

[juju151111]

No he did not.:facepalm

[Joyner82reload]

He didn't lead the heat in points or rebounds in 2011 alone, nice research OP

[scandisk_]

:biggums:

Has that ever happened before?


EDIT: Just checked. Illgauskas had more rebounds than Lebron in 2007.

2011 season nah

[Nash]

yeah, jumped the gun a bit, my mistake, hopefully mods can change the title to make it correct

still a crazy feat

[navy]

yeah, jumped the gun a bit

still a crazy feat
A bit?

[SpecialQue]

yeah, jumped the gun a bit, hopefully mods can change the title to make it correct

still a crazy feat

This is why nobody likes you.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

07 - Z with more rpg
11 - Bosh more rpg, Wade more ppg

[Sarcastic]

Fail thread.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

yeah, jumped the gun a bit, my mistake, hopefully mods can change the title to make it correct

still a crazy feat
who the hell makes a thread title stating a fact without actually verifying it first?

[masonanddixon]

Must be nice playing sub 500 teams for 2-3 rds. Too bad he's consistently terrible in series that matter.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Must be nice playing sub 500 teams for 2-3 rds. Too bad he's consistently terrible in series that matter.

hes played "terribly" in two series in his career..

[navy]

who the hell makes a thread title stating a fact without actually verifying it first?

Posted at 9:58

yeah, I checked it and that was the only time he didn't lead his team in all categories.


OP made the thread at 10:03 after he had already been proven wrong. :oldlol:

[masonanddixon]

hes played "terribly" in two series in his career..

He's been in the Finals 5 times and was terrible in 4 of them.

Then you have the Celtics series' and Magic series where he failed his team when it mattered.

I just wish he'd go out West so he can be even further exposed much like Dwight Howard

[Warfan]

He's been in the Finals 5 times and was terrible in 4 of them.

Then you have the Celtics series' and Magic series where he failed his team when it mattered.

He was terrible in his first 2. Only other series/games i criticise him for is 2008 against Boston (even though he played pretty well in the last 3/4 games), and game 5 against Boston in 2010.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

He's been in the Finals 5 times and was terrible in 4 of them.

Then you have the Celtics series' and Magic series where he failed his team when it mattered.
He was terrible vs the Spurs (2007) and the Mavs 2011


2008 celtics he was bad but wouldnt say terrible

as far as 2009 magic i dont even know what to say....:oldlol:

[red1]

He's been in the Finals 5 times and was terrible in 4 of them.

Then you have the Celtics series' and Magic series where he failed his team when it mattered.

I just wish he'd go out West so he can be even further exposed much like Dwight Howard
:biggums:

[masonanddixon]

He was terrible vs the Spurs (2007) and the Mavs 2011


2008 celtics he was bad but wouldnt say terrible

as far as 2009 magic i dont even know what to say....:oldlol:

He sucked this season.

How do you only manage 1 win against a team that could barely beat and needed league office help to get past a 36 year old Dirk and spare parts?

[beastee]

This thread is a perfect example of the typical Lebron Stan. So excited about something that they blabber a wrong opinion or stat for the rest of us to waste our time on. It's cool though, we get the childish enthusiasm...

[stalkerforlife]

:facepalm

[RoundMoundOfReb]

He sucked this season.

How do you only manage 1 win against a team that could barely beat and needed leauge office help to get past a 36 year old Dirk and spare parts?
Complete misrepresentation of how good the spurs and mavs were...

that's like saying durant sucked in 2012 finals because:

How do you only manage 1 win against a team that could barely beat and needed leauge office help to get past an ancient Celtics team?

and secondly there is literally no player ever who could put up 28/8/4 on 57/52/79 that can be categorized as playing "terribly"

[funnystuff]

He sucked this season.

How do you only manage 1 win against a team that could barely beat and needed league office help to get past a 36 year old Dirk and spare parts?
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_ICXs0E2rWLo/TUP8iLgu98I/AAAAAAAABKQ/v67P0pprYJg/s1600/Antoine-Dodson-Dumb.gif




28/8/4 with 2 steals a game, 57% from the field, 52% from 3. He fcking sucked.

[masonanddixon]

Complete misrepresentation of how good the spurs and mavs were...

that's like saying durant sucked in 2012 finals because:

How do you only manage 1 win against a team that could barely beat and needed leauge office help to get past an ancient Celtics team?

and secondly there is literally no player ever who could put up 28/8/4 on 57/52/79 that can be categorized as playing "terribly"

You have to look at context instead of solely on statistics. Miami didn't even play any good teams until the Finals. They should have at least taken it to 6 games.

If you don't want to call his play terrible, you have to at least admit he didn't come through for his team this Finals. Not even close. I'm fine with that.

Or we can go the Lebron fanboi route and say that literally everyone on Miami conspired to make Lebron look bad in 4 of the 5 Finals and that Lebron simply decided not to try against Dallas etc or whatever mentally ill bullshit they want to run with.

[masonanddixon]

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_ICXs0E2rWLo/TUP8iLgu98I/AAAAAAAABKQ/v67P0pprYJg/s1600/Antoine-Dodson-Dumb.gif




28/8/4 with 2 steals a game, 57% from the field, 52% from 3. He fcking sucked.

I wonder what Mr. Dodson is up to these days.

[funnystuff]

You have to look at context instead of solely on statistics. Miami didn't even play any good teams until the Finals. They should have at least taken it to 6 games.

If you don't want to call his play terrible, you have to at least admit he didn't come through for his team this Finals. Not even close. I'm fine with that.

Or we can go the Lebron fanboi route and say that literally every on Miami conspired to make Lebron look bad in 4 of the 5 Finals and that Lebron simpled decided not to try against Dallas etc or whatever mentally ill bullshit they want to run with.
Then explain to me why Lebron had his most efficient series this year against the Spurs?

BECAUSE THE WEST DONT PLAY DEFENSE LIKE THE EAST. There i helped u bb

[funnystuff]

I wonder what Mr. Dodson is up to these days.
:cheers:

[moe94]

You have to look at context instead of solely on statistics. Miami didn't even play any good teams until the Finals. They should have at least taken it to 6 games.

If you don't want to call his play terrible, you have to at least admit he didn't come through for his team this Finals. Not even close. I'm fine with that.

Or we can go the Lebron fanboi route and say that literally everyone on Miami conspired to make Lebron look bad in 4 of the 5 Finals and that Lebron simply decided not to try against Dallas etc or whatever mentally ill bullshit they want to run with.

What the fvck are you talking about? Regardless of what LeBron did, they were not going to beat the Spurs. :biggums:

[RoundMoundOfReb]

You have to look at context instead of solely on statistics. Miami didn't even play any good teams until the Finals. They should have at least taken it to 6 games.

how does miami not playing any good teams (not that i agree with that) til the finals validate the case that he was terrible? if anything it tells me that miami was a team that really didnt deserve to be in the finals in the first place...therefore them being blown out was to be expected..


If you don't want to call his play terrible, you have to at least admit he didn't come through for his team this Finals. Not even close. I'm fine with that.

"didn't come through for his team this Finals" - what the heck does this mean?...you could utter that cliche for literally every player who lost a series..."Durant didn't come through for his team against the Heat in 2012" or "Magic didn't come through for his team in [insert one of 4 finals losses here]"

to me LeBron's performance this year was a lot like Shaq in 1995...he didnt play as good as the ridiculous numbers would indicate but he was still pretty damn good.

[Warfan]

Then explain to me why Lebron had his most efficient series this year against the Spurs?

BECAUSE THE WEST DONT PLAY DEFENSE LIKE THE EAST. There i helped u bb

:facepalm :roll:

Lebron was just hot from the peremiter, even though a fair bit of his points came when the game was out of reach and not when his team needed it

Lebrons FG% against the West:

2007 - 35%
2011 - 48% (but you know, being the 5th highest scorer in the series is pathetic)
2012 - 47% (down from his playoff average)
2013 - 45% (down from his playoff average)

[masonanddixon]

What the fvck are you talking about? Regardless of what LeBron did, they were not going to beat the Spurs. :biggums:

They beat them last season.

I suppose Lebron making Kawhi Leonard look like Jordan played some role in Miami's loss.

I'm just calling it as I see it. If you're going to claim Lebron is GOAT material he needs to be a lot better in the games that matter. I have him ranked 6th/7th in the post-MJ era, personally.

[moe94]

They beat them last season.

I suppose Lebron making Kawhi Leonard look like Jordan played some role in Miami's loss.

I'm just calling it as I see it. If you're going to claim Lebron is GOAT material he needs to be a lot better in the games that matter. I have him ranked 6th/7th in the post-MJ era, personally.
:roll: :roll:

Go ahead, list them.

[masonanddixon]

how does miami not playing any good teams (not that i agree with that) til the finals validate the case that he was terrible? if anything it tells me that miami was a team that really didnt deserve to be in the finals in the first place...therefore them being blown out was to be expected..



"didn't come through for his team this Finals" - what the heck does this mean?...you could utter that cliche for literally every player who lost a series..."Durant didn't come through for his team against the Heat in 2012" or "Magic didn't come through for his team in [insert one of 4 finals losses here]"

to me LeBron's performance this year was a lot like Shaq in 1995...he didnt play as good as the ridiculous numbers would indicate but he was still pretty damn good.

Well when for example Dirk does the same thing and loses, no one makes up excuses for him. I just wish people would accept Lebron is on the same level as a bunch of guys in the post-MJ era, and stop creating excuses for him every time he loses.

[masonanddixon]

:roll: :roll:

Go ahead, list them.

Kobe
Duncan
Shaq
Dirk
KG
Wade
Lebron

I think it's a rational list. Is it some sort of insult to put him as the 7th best player over the past 15 years?

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Well when for example Dirk does the same thing and loses, no one makes up excuses for him. I just wish people would accept Lebron is on the same level as a bunch of guys in the post-MJ era, and stop creating excuses for him every time he loses.

when exactly was this?...Dirk was bad in the 2006 finals and the 2007 first round series...that's pretty much it..

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Kobe
Duncan
Shaq
Dirk
KG
Wade
Lebron

I think it's a rational list. Is it some sort of insult to put him as the 7th best player over the past 15 years?

What are your thoughts on Kobe's 2000, 2004, 2008 finals performances If LeBron was "terrible" in 2014 then surely you have some nasty things to say about Kobe's performances...

[moe94]

Kobe
Duncan
Shaq
Dirk
KG
Wade
Lebron

I think it's a rational list. Is it some sort of insult to put him as the 7th best player over the past 15 years?

There is literally no argument that states Wade had a better career, peak play or anything. At all. Pure nonsense.

KG? LeBron is already ahead of KG, all time.

Dirk? Dirk? Dirk? :roll: :roll:

Assuming it's in order, you have Kobe at first which already shows the reason for your delusion. It's Duncan, btw. Should have gotten that out of the way before.

[masonanddixon]

when exactly was this?...Dirk was bad in the 2006 finals and the 2007 first round series...that's pretty much it..

I don't think he was really even that bad in 2006 Finals.

But there seems to be an inordinate amount of excuses made for Lebron. Many which are delusional.

Almost a reflection of 2014 society and the Millennial/Obama Generation.

It's surreal.

[ILLsmak]

Dude prolly ran to the computer, too. I feel bad.

-Smak

[moe94]

I don't think he was really even that bad in 2006 Finals.

But there seems to be an inordinate amount of excuses made for Lebron. Many which are delusional.

Almost a reflection of 2014 society and the Millennial/Obama Generation.

It's surreal.

Here he goes again. You're a joke, my dude. That has literally nothing to do with this thread or basketball yet you consistently bring up shit like this.

herpderp I'm a conservative

Okay. No one gives a shit. Move on. :rolleyes:

[masonanddixon]

There is literally no argument that states Wade had a better career, peak play or anything. At all. Pure nonsense.

KG? LeBron is already ahead of KG, all time.

Dirk? Dirk? Dirk? :roll: :roll:

Assuming it's in order, you have Kobe at first which already shows the reason for your delusion. It's Duncan, btw. Should have gotten that out of the way before.

Tell me how Lebron is better than Dirk. Because history is going to look at Dirk VERY favorably.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

I don't think he was really even that bad in 2006 Finals.

But there seems to be an inordinate amount of excuses made for Lebron. Many which are delusional.


yet you think LeBron was "terrible" in 2014...

and im not making "an inordinate amount of excuses made for Lebron" ...he was terrible in 2011 and 2007..no excuses...he was bad in 2008...no excuses...

but he just factually wasn't bad or terrible in any other series...

i dont know what the **** obama has to do with this....im not even a liberal

[moe94]

Tell me how Lebron is better than Dirk. Because history is going to look at Dirk VERY favorably.

You mean aside from having a better peak, prime, more accolades, etc? Nothing really.

I mean, outside of 2011, what argument do you have for putting Dirk ahead of LeBron? You're the one making the controversial statement so defend it.

[masonanddixon]

Here he goes again. You're a joke, my dude. That has literally nothing to do with this thread or basketball yet you consistently bring up shit like this.

herpderp I'm a conservative

Okay. No one gives a shit. Move on. :rolleyes:

I'm a radical.

I'd prefer if you give me some analysis, opinions, and facts instead of insulting me for no reason.

[masonanddixon]

Why dont you explain the other way around?
LeBron has already comfortably surpassed Dirk

10 seasons 50 wins out West with I believe 4-5 60 win seasons
2 Finals appearances with no other all stars
50/40/90

One of 4 guys to average 25/10 in postseason

[RoundMoundOfReb]

I'm a radical.

I'd prefer if you give me some analysis, opinions, and facts instead of insulting me for no reason.


you have literally not presented any analysis or a single fact...your whole argument seems to be based on adjectives like "terribly" or cliches like "let his team down" that are in no way specific to lebron....

going by your logic i could say that every player who ever lost a game or series "let his team down"...or played "terribly"

[navy]

10 seasons 50 wins out West with I believe 4-5 60 win seasons
2 Finals appearances with no other all stars
50/40/90

One of 4 guys to average 25/10 in postseason
And which part of this is better than Lebron?

[funnystuff]

:facepalm :roll:

Lebron was just hot from the peremiter, even though a fair bit of his points came when the game was out of reach and not when his team needed it

Lebrons FG% against the West:

2007 - 35%
2011 - 48% (but you know, being the 5th highest scorer in the series is pathetic)
2012 - 47% (down from his playoff average)
2013 - 45% (down from his playoff average)
You do realize its the general consensus that the East are better on defense, right?


Then again you're probably one of those simpletons who use the eye test and accuse the Bobcats of being shite even though they were a top 5 defensive team in the league. But I could be wrong.

[masonanddixon]

you have literally not presented any analysis or a single fact...your whole argument seems to be based on adjectives like "terribly" or cliches like "let his team down" that are in no way specific to lebron....

going by your logic i could say that every player who ever lost a game or series "let his team down"...or played "terribly"

Ok how about his 8 pt game in game 4 vs Dallas?

Or averaging 2 pts in the 4th quarter for an entire Finals series after calling himself he king of clutch

I can go on if you'd like.

[navy]

:facepalm :roll:

Lebron was just hot from the peremiter, even though a fair bit of his points came when the game was out of reach and not when his team needed it

Lebrons FG% against the West:

2007 - 35%
2011 - 48% (but you know, being the 5th highest scorer in the series is pathetic)
2012 - 47% (down from his playoff average)
2013 - 45% (down from his playoff average)

4 teams isnt a great sample size. Post the eastern vs western shooting percentages in the regular season.

[masonanddixon]

And which part of this is better than Lebron?

Thats a pretty damn elite resume.

Do you really think Lebron would have made the Finals out west on Dallas?

His Cleveland squads were the East equivalent of Dirk's teams out West

[red1]

holy **** is this masondixon kid dumb or what

[navy]

Ok how about his 8 pt game in game 4 vs Dallas?

Or averaging 2 pts in the 4th quarter for an entire Finals series after calling himself he king of clutch

I can go on if you'd like.

Nitpicking?

What about Dirk loosing to the Eight seed in his MVP season?

[RoundMoundOfReb]

10 seasons 50 wins out West with I believe 4-5 60 win seasons


2 Finals appearances with no other all stars
50/40/90

One of 4 guys to average 25/10 in postseason

LeBron has won 50+ 8 times out of 11 seasons (adjusting 2012 for an 82 game year) Dirk has done it 11/16...

Dirk has won 60+ 3/16 LeBron has done it 3/11...

LeBron has made 5 finals to Dirk's 2...including 1 with no other all stars...

"50/40/90" is a meaningless arbitrary statistic that generally refers to efficiency in which lebron blows dirk away...

[navy]

Thats a pretty damn elite resume.

Do you really think Lebron would have made the Finals out west on Dallas?

His Cleveland squads were the East equivalent of Dirk's teams out West

It is an alright resume. Only someone as delusional as you would think it is even close to Lebron's.

[Angel Face]

He led his team in finals loses

Lebron 2/5

Bosh 2/4

Wade 3/5

Allen 2/3

:bowdown:

[NBAplayoffs2001]

He led his team in finals loses

Lebron 2/5

Bosh 2/4

Wade 3/5

Allen 2/3

:bowdown:
:applause: You da man Angel Face

[funnystuff]

He led his team in finals loses

Lebron 2/5

Bosh 2/4

Wade 3/5

Allen 2/3

:bowdown:
You're right, he should of lost in the first round so his resume wouldn't have got tainted. :rolleyes:

[masonanddixon]

It is an alright resume. Only someone as delusional as you would think it is even close to Lebron's.

yeah I mean making the Finals out West (only guy besides shaq/kobe/duncan) is just ok. Oh and his MVP and Finals MVP were nothing special.

And a decade of 50 wins playing most of the seasons with no other all stars was just decent.

I mean playing with Wade Bosh and the best role players is nowhere near as good as Dampier, Harris, Josh Howard, and Jason terry

Yeah Dirk is just ok. Nothing special.

[Warfan]

Originally Posted by funnystuff
Then explain to me why Lebron had his most efficient series this year against the Spurs?

BECAUSE THE WEST DONT PLAY DEFENSE LIKE THE EAST. There i helped u bb

You used 1 series to show how the defense in the West isnt as good as the East. I used your way to show 3 examples which say the opposite...

[jrong]

:biggums:

Has that ever happened before?


EDIT: Just checked. Illgauskas had more rebounds than Lebron in 2007.

Wade outscored him in 2011. Look it up.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Ok how about his 8 pt game in game 4 vs Dallas?

Or averaging 2 pts in the 4th quarter for an entire Finals series after calling himself he king of clutch

I can go on if you'd like.
i acknowledged he was terrible in 2007 and 2011...


the problem with your argument is that pretty much every great player in nba history has had terrible series...Kobe put up an 8 point 4/20 or some shit game in the 2000 finals....larry bird had back-to-back 8 point games in the finals...

[JT123]

yeah I mean making the Finals out West (only guy besides shaq/kobe/duncan) is just ok. Oh and his MVP and Finals MVP were nothing special.

And a decade of 50 wins playing most of the seasons with no other all stars was just decent.

I mean playing with Wade Bosh and the best role players is nowhere near as good as Dampier, Harris, Josh Howard, and Jason terry

Yeah Dirk is just ok. Nothing special.
If by best role players you mean a bunch of old and washed up vets that no other team wanted. :sleeping

[red1]

He led his team in finals loses

Lebron 2/5

Bosh 2/4

Wade 3/5

Allen 2/3

:bowdown:
allen is actually 2/4

[funnystuff]

You used 1 series to show how the defense in the West isnt as good as the East. I used your way to show 3 examples which say the opposite...
Not gonna waste my time playing pots and pans with you, fact is you are upset I was right in that first post and you are simply wrong my friend, maybe you'll get em next time. :cheers:

[Hey Yo]

Must be nice playing sub 500 teams for 2-3 rds. Too bad he's consistently terrible in series that matter.
The 3 opponents that magic and the 87 Lakers faced (before the Finals) had a combined W-L record of like 118-128. That's the worst combined record a playoff team has faced, that went onto play in the finals, in the modern era.

[JT123]

You used 1 series to show how the defense in the West isnt as good as the East. I used your way to show 3 examples which say the opposite...
Problem is you are assuming every Western team would play the same level of defense as the Western Conference champion. Pretty flawed logic don't you think? Do you honestly think Lebron would struggle to score against the Clippers the way he sometimes struggles against the Bulls?

[SupermanOnSteroids]

opie, if you want, i can arrange something for you. but you gotta be careful.

imagine you and lebron, lebron and you. one night. one night of passion, one night of love. just the two of you. you holding lebron in your arms, lebron holding you in his. real close. face to face. he giggles, then you giggle. something happens down there and you both giggle again. laugh and look back in each other eyes. you recite lebron's stats to him lebron takes that as an invitation. then he slowly pulls your pants down as you blush. you've done this a hundred times with other guys before but never with lebron. your ***** is fully erect, lebron takes a note of it. then asks you to do a little dance to amuse him. you get up and move your hips, your ***** dangling around gracefully, all 3 inches of it. then lebron motions you over with his finger while lying gracefully on the bed totally naked. his 5 incher dwarfing your 3 incher. you are in awe. your mouth waters. you know you want a piece of it. so you kiss lebron on the lips, then on his neck, then on his chest, and slowly work your way down his magical abs down to the business area. lebron asks you to talk dirty while you do it. so you recite his stats once again. but lebron notices something is wrong. those are not his stats. lebron realizes op doesn't even knows his stats. lebron gets infuriated and throws you out of the room. op is heart broken and crying. one night of magic, one night of love. how could it come to this. then op watches as J Shuttleworth walks past him with a smile on his face and enters the room. op knows whats about to go down. J Shuttlesworth knows his stats. J Shuttlesworth is gonna succeed where opie failed. opie comes back home heart broken and makes a thread on ish about it. and then supermanonsteroids bumps this thread up back again to remind op that he always fails.

[navy]

yeah I mean making the Finals out West (only guy besides shaq/kobe/duncan) is just ok. Oh and his MVP and Finals MVP were nothing special.

And a decade of 50 wins playing most of the seasons with no other all stars was just decent.

I mean playing with Wade Bosh and the best role players is nowhere near as good as Dampier, Harris, Josh Howard, and Jason terry

Yeah Dirk is just ok. Nothing special.

2012 The Thunder made it. In his MVP season he lost to an eight seed in the first round of the playoffs. Dirk averaged 20 a game on 38% shooting. If you are going to nitpick, do it for everyone equally.

Dirk had a good run and is still playing well. Im not trying to take anything away from him. Im just not going to sit here and watch you bullshit your way through saying Dirk is ahead of Lebron and then blame it on Obama. :facepalm

[RoundMoundOfReb]

opie, if you want, i can arrange something for you. but you gotta be careful.

imagine you and lebron, lebron and you. one night. one night of passion, one night of love. just the two of you. you holding lebron in your arms, lebron holding you in his. real close. face to face. he giggles, then you giggle. something happens down there and you both giggle again. laugh and look back in each other eyes. you recite lebron's stats to him lebron takes that as an invitation. then he slowly pulls your pants down as you blush. you've done this a hundred times with other guys before but never with lebron. your ***** is fully erect, lebron takes a note of it. then asks you to do a little dance to amuse him. you get up and move your hips, your ***** dangling around gracefully, all 3 inches of it. then lebron motions you over with his finger while lying gracefully on the bed totally naked. his 5 incher dwarfing your 3 incher. you are in awe. your mouth waters. you know you want a piece of it. so you kiss lebron on the lips, then on his neck, then on his chest, and slowly work your way down his magical abs down to the business area. lebron asks you to talk dirty while you do it. so you recite his stats once again. but lebron notices something is wrong. those are not his stats. lebron realizes op doesn't even knows his stats. lebron gets infuriated and throws you out of the room. op is heart broken and crying. one night of magic, one night of love. how could it come to this. then op watches as J Shuttleworth walks past him with a smile on his face and enters the room. op knows whats about to go down. J Shuttlesworth knows his stats. J Shuttlesworth is gonna succeed where opie failed. opie comes back home heart broken and makes a thread on ish about it. and then supermanonsteroids bumps this thread up back again to remind op that he always fails.
:roll: :roll: :biggums:

[mehyaM24]

and has 2 rings / 4 mvps/ 2 fmvps to boot. the only player in history who's ball dominance doesn't affect his teams play (see jordan, melo, tmac, arenas etc.)

[navy]

You used 1 series to show how the defense in the West isnt as good as the East. I used your way to show 3 examples which say the opposite...
Two wrongs dont make a right lol. Someone please find the entire seasons so we can compare. I searched but couldnt find it.

[jrong]

To back up my earlier post, 2011 playoffs:

Dwyane Wade 24.5 pts .485%
LeBron James 23.7 pts .466%

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/MIA/2011.html

The myth-making about LeBron needs to stop. I'm going to be very interested to see how he does in the playoffs this year without his Dwyane Wade training wheels.

[funnystuff]

Uhhh....It's clear that you were wrong. You could use a different way to try and argue that defense in the East is better. Instead you pointed to one of LeBron's finals series to prove your point that defense in the West is worse, when in fact he played like garbage his first 2 finals and was MIA for the majority of the 2013 finals. Which proves the opposite of what you're saying...
I simply asked the guy to explain to me why his most efficient series was against the Spurs. Then in another PARAGRAPH I said the east play better defense. Those comments were not linked to each other(hence why they are in separate paragraphs derp), I was simply stating a fact.

[Real Men Wear Green]

yeah, jumped the gun a bit, my mistake, hopefully mods can change the title to make it correct
:confusedshrug:

[RRR3]

To back up my earlier post, 2011 playoffs:

Dwyane Wade 24.5 pts .485%
LeBron James 23.7 pts .466%

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/MIA/2011.html

The myth-making about LeBron needs to stop. I'm going to be very interested to see how he does in the playoffs this year without his Dwyane Wade training wheels.
LeBron put up 35 PPg on 50% without Wade in the playoffs he'll be fine. Unless you think Wade's incredible 16 PPG and ~18 PPG the last two playoffs were the reason LBJ played well.

[Roundball_Rock]

Has any superstar in history been asked to carry as large a load as LeBron as LeBron is asked to do year in and year out? He is asked to:

*Be the leading scorer.
*Be the leading playmaker/run the offense.
*Be the leading rebounder/a close second in rebounding.
*Be the top defender.
*Be a team leader in the locker room and on the court.

[SupermanOnSteroids]

Has any superstar in history been asked to carry as large a load as LeBron as LeBron is asked to do year in and year out? He is asked to:

*Be the leading scorer.
*Be the leading playmaker/run the offense.
*Be the leading rebounder/a close second in rebounding.
*Be the top defender.
*Be a team leader in the locker room and on the court.

being asked to do this while having 2 superstar sidekicks is really quite amazing.

[Ca$H]

being asked to do this while having 2 superstar sidekicks is really quite amazing.

http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=112&f=1786

[Hey Yo]

Has any superstar in history been asked to carry as large a load as LeBron as LeBron is asked to do year in and year out? He is asked to:

*Be the leading scorer.
*Be the leading playmaker/run the offense.
*Be the leading rebounder/a close second in rebounding.
*Be the top defender.
*Be a team leader in the locker room and on the court.

That's what happened when Wade handed over the team in 2012.

In those next 3 postseason and Finals runs, James led the team all 3yrs in pts, rebounds, assists and steals.

[Real Men Wear Green]

Has any superstar in history been asked to carry as large a load as LeBron as LeBron is asked to do year in and year out? He is asked to:

*Be the leading scorer.
*Be the leading playmaker/run the offense.
*Be the leading rebounder/a close second in rebounding.
*Be the top defender.
*Be a team leader in the locker room and on the court.
Most of that is within his skillset. "To whom much is given." Not sure about the extent of the "leader" business either. It's a bit corny how ESPN will have cameras on him broadcasting his "leadership" in useless pregame speeches and how he actively talks about his leadership. He is a team leader but it seems a bit contrived. They act like he's this super-inspiring guy and the rest of the squad just hangs on his every word. Anyway the best player on a team is always expected to lead.

[Roundball_Rock]

Most of that is within his skillset. "To whom much is given."

True. I don't see a team taking playmaking duties from him unless they got someone like prime Nash, which a LeBron team would never do. What I am surprised about is how his teams have never gotten a legitimate rebounding SF/C to get 10-11 boards a game. Your SF should never be your top rebounder. :lol Nor have his teams ever gotten a dominant interior defender like Ibaka or even a great perimeter defender a la Bowen to take some of the defensive pressure off of him. I guess Battier comes closet.


Not sure about the extent of the "leader" business either. It's a bit corny how ESPN will have cameras on him broadcasting his "leadership" in useless pregame speeches and how he actively talks about his leadership.

Yeah I always wonder about leadership. We just don't know what goes on in the locker room, at practice or in the huddle.



That's what happened when Wade handed over the team in 2012.

He had to do it in Cleveland too.


being asked to do this while having 2 superstar sidekicks is really quite amazing.

Wouldn't a superstar lead the team in something? If you have two superstars wouldn't one manage to lead the team in something? Bosh is a PF...

[jrong]

LeBron put up 35 PPg on 50% without Wade in the playoffs he'll be fine. Unless you think Wade's incredible 16 PPG and ~18 PPG the last two playoffs were the reason LBJ played well.

Wade's ability fell below the threshold of immunity to the LeBron James Effect this year. He was the lone exception among LeBron's (formerly) high usage teammates, who was able to still perform at a superstar level despite James' ball dominance.

Until this year's Finals, Wade came through in high-stakes do-or-die situations every single time. In 2014, for the first time he failed to do that. His game fell below the LeBron James Effect level.

And why are you trying to pick fights with me? First of all, please. Second, know who your adversaries are.

[navy]

Wade's ability fell below the threshold of immunity to the LeBron James Effect this year. He was the lone exception among LeBron's (formerly) high usage teammates, who was able to still perform at a superstar level despite James' ball dominance.

Might be because Wade is the only Superstar Lebron has ever played with. :oldlol:

[GimmeThat]

so I wonder how many people would agree with me that the Miami Heat underachieves

still better than a few other franchises of course

[jrong]

Might be because Wade is the only Superstar Lebron has ever played with. :oldlol:

The key is that Wade is the only player who has been able to provide that superstar reinforcement in spite of the LeBron Effect. Setting aside 2011, from 2012 on, if LeBron was the super-structure, Wade was the sub-structure, the internal reinforcing framework that kept the skyscraper from collapsing.

In 2014, he couldn't provide that support, and the LeBron-led Heat got demolished by the Spurs.

So how far can LeBron go without a player that can back him up to the level Wade did through 2013, all while having to compress his game? We'll find out.

[navy]

The key is that Wade is the only player who has been able to provide that superstar reinforcement in spite of the LeBron Efffect. Setting aside 2011, from 2012 on, if LeBron was the super-structure, Wade was the sub-structure, the internal reinforcing framework that kept the skyscraper from collapsing.

In 2014, he couldn't provide that support, and the LeBron-led Heat got demolished by the Spurs.

So how far can LeBron go without a player that can back him up to the level Wade did through 2013, all while having to compress his game? We'll find out.
There was plenty of evidence showing the Heat were better without Wade in the game numerous times even in the playoffs, you can credit him for some key wins but you cant ignore the part he played in key loses that made other wins necessary. :confusedshrug:

In any case, Lebron has never had relevant support before he came to Miami. Unless you count Mo Williams as relevant. Larry Hughes was alright before injuries. Some of the worst sidekicks of all time even if healthy.

[coin24]

Cool thread pauk.

Bran is 2/5 in the finals though, such dominance:bowdown:

[Sarcastic]

Has any superstar in history been asked to carry as large a load as LeBron as LeBron is asked to do year in and year out? He is asked to:

*Be the leading scorer.
*Be the leading playmaker/run the offense.
*Be the leading rebounder/a close second in rebounding.
*Be the top defender.
*Be a team leader in the locker room and on the court.


He wasn't asked to do all that. When the team noticed that he tanked in 2011, because he wasn't all that, everyone took a step back so that he could lead the team in everything, and they could get their ring.