Melo on the 90's Bulls in place of MJ

[sejoon101]

How many titles does he win?

I see swap threads daily, like Bran instead of KD on Thunder, Bran on Bulls etc.. But what about Melo on the 90's Bulls? How many titles, if any, can he bring home?

[Foster5k]

0.

Jordan was the glue of the 90's Bulls. Melo is a great player, however that era of basketball was just too physical for a guy like Melo. Hand checking and other defensive maneuvers would limit Melo's effectiveness.

Jordan, on the other hand, was a different animal all together. A truly unstoppable force on the court. Jordan would average 40+ in today's NBA.

[NBAplayoffs2001]

How many titles does he win?

I see swap threads daily, like Bran instead of KD on Thunder, Bran on Bulls etc.. But what about Melo on the 90's Bulls? How many titles, if any, can he bring home?

Doesn't beat the pistons in 91.
In 1992, trailblazers were very good and I just don't see it.
In 1993, the suns were a very good offense team and I don't think Melo could also drop 35ppg on them like Jordan did.
In 1996, maybe since Gary Payton can't really guard 6'8'' Melo.
In 1997 and 1998, sorry but that Utah team IMO would be more well rounded.

I would say at most 1.

[mehyaM24]

6 maybe 7. assuming melo isn't retiring, all those bulls teams needed was perimeter scoring. you add iverson, melo or tmac, and these guys have mutliple rings.

playing next to scottie (best defender, rebounder, playmaker and leader on the floor) will do that for you.

[Angel Face]

No chance at all.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

nope

[Angel Face]

6 maybe 7. assuming melo isn't retiring, all those bulls teams needed was perimeter scoring. you add iverson, melo or tmac, and these guys have mutliple rings.

playing next to scottie (best defender, rebounder, playmaker and leader on the floor) will do that for you.

:roll:

:facepalm

[mehyaM24]

:roll:

:facepalm

7 might be too generous, but he would win at least 5. again this is assuming melo doesn't retire twice.

[navy]

0-2 probably. Leaning towards 0.

[jrong]

None. Melo's ball-stopping and inefficiency and general lack of heart in that era? The Bulls are a lottery team.

[red1]

depends on whether or not pippen can whip him into shape. I say they win 1 due to pip's greatness

[RoundMoundOfReb]

None. Melo's ball-stopping and inefficiency and general lack of heart in that era? The Bulls are a lottery team.
I don't think they'd win a title...but let's not act like they wouldn't be a good team...94 Bulls with no MJ and no Melo won 50 games

[RRR3]

Replacing Michael Jordan with Carmelo Anthony is akin to replacing Dom perignon with weasel piss (partially quoting Dave Barry)

[Sarcastic]

0.

No one could win with that Bulls team other than Jordan.

[mehyaM24]

you guys are selling melo a bit short.

the bulls were one call away from the eastern conference finals WITHOUT a serviceable sg (scorer). you give pippen a carmelo anthony and they win it all.

[KBaller33]

0 man

[navy]

0.

No one could win with that Bulls team other than Jordan.
For the entire 90s? Highly doubtful.

[hawke812]

6 or more. Jordan is the most overrated player of all time.

[Roundball_Rock]

This is a hard hypothetical because he plays SF. I suppose it could work if you move Pippen to PG. That means you have:

PF Grant
SF Carmelo
C Cartwright
SG ?
PG Pippen

6th man: Armstrong

and later:

PF Rodman
SF Carmelo
C Longley
SG Harper
PG Pippen

6th man: Kukoc

Assuming they found a competent NBA-caliber SG to fill Jordan's slot, which presumably they would if given more than 3 weeks to do so, the above teams clearly are championship contenders. As has been noted, the 94' Bulls won 55 games and fought for the top seed without a NBA-caliber starting SG. If you give them Carmelo they win.

My best guess would be:

1991: Champions (the East was weak that year--the washed up Pistons got to the ECF and were the #2 seed)
1992: ECF (they wouldn't be the #1 seed and would avoid #4 NY in the ECSF)
1993: ECF
1994: Champions
1995: ECF
1996: Champions
1997: Finals
1998: ECF

[Lebronxrings]

0, they don't even reach the finals.

[SkipToMyLou]

0.

[Sarcastic]

Barkley and Hakeem couldn't win with Pippen. How could Melo win with him as his second option?

[Roundball_Rock]

Barkley and Hakeem couldn't win with Pippen. How could Melo win with him as his second option?

Barkley, Hakeem and Pippen were all past their primes. Just look at what the Bulls actually did without MJ. They don't improve with Carmelo on than Jordan-less Bulls? Pippen, Carmelo, Rodman/Grant, Kukoc/Armstrong don't contend?

A lot of responses in this thread ignore what kind of teams actually were contending other than Chicago in the 90's:

New York: Ewing, Starks, Oakley, Mason/Smith.
Indiana: Miller, Smits, Jackson, Davis.
Miami: Mourning, Hardaway, Mashburn, Majerle.
Orlando: Shaq, Penny, Grant, Anderson.
Cleveland: Price, Daughtery, Nance, Wilkins.

Yet people are going to act as if Pippen, Carmelo, Rodman/Grant, and Kukoc/Armstrong would never win? :biggums:

[RRR3]

Just because Carmelo is a great player doesn't mean he'd fit we'll with that team.

[GrapeApe]

The defensive dropoff would be immense to say the least and those Bulls teams were largely driven by Jordan and Pippen's perimeter D. Zero titles.

[Smoke117]

This is a hard hypothetical because he plays SF. I suppose it could work if you move Pippen to PG. That means you have:

PF Grant
SF Carmelo
C Cartwright
SG ?
PG Pippen

6th man: Armstrong

and later:

PF Rodman
SF Carmelo
C Longley
SG Harper
PG Pippen

6th man: Kukoc

Assuming they found a competent NBA-caliber SG to fill Jordan's slot, which presumably they would if given more than 3 weeks to do so, the above teams clearly are championship contenders. As has been noted, the 94' Bulls won 55 games and fought for the top seed without a NBA-caliber starting SG. If you give them Carmelo they win.

My best guess would be:

1991: Champions (the East was weak that year--the washed up Pistons got to the ECF and were the #2 seed)
1992: ECF (they wouldn't be the #1 seed and would avoid #4 NY in the ECSF)
1993: ECF
1994: Champions
1995: ECF
1996: Champions
1997: Finals
1998: ECF


That doesn't matter. Armstrong was only labled a PG because he was the smallest guard on the court...Pippen is the one who took care of all those duties. It really wouldn't make a difference sliding Pippen over to the "official" SG slot. Anyway, I think Carmelo would do pretty well in the triangle system especially with someone like Pippen who can take care of all the play making duties.

I'd say the problem arises defensively. A lot of people don't seem to realize...but the Bulls were a defensive team first and their winning is more an attribute to their defense than their offense, overall.

[Roundball_Rock]

I'd say the problem arises defensively. A lot of people don't seem to realize...but the Bulls were a defensive team first and their winning is more an attribute to their defense than their offense, overall.

True--but they had the #2 defense in 95' even without MJ and Rodman/Grant (95' was peak Pippen on defense). I do agree they would generally drop-off substantially defensively in most years under this scenario.

Where is MJ in this scenario? Never existed? Retired? On a good team? If he doesn't exist--and he wouldn't in 94' at least, you have to compare Pippen/Carmelo/Rodman or Grant/Kukoc to what else was out there in the East and anyone who says they wouldn't be consistent contenders is being unrealistic. Again, look at Cleveland, New York, Indiana and Miami in those years. Pippen and Carmelo would both be better than the best player on Cleveland and Indiana and they would be both be comparable to the best player on the Knicks and Heat. They also would have the best #3 and #4 players in pretty much ever case (Nance>Grant). Plus Phil Jackson.

[BlkMambaGOAT]

1990: Attempts to steal some of Barkley's donuts. Gets hospitalized.
1991-2000: Remains in a coma.

[KBaller33]

It's really a bad fit if you put Melo on those Bulls teams. REALLY bad. Plus Jordan had super human performances that I doubt Melo could match. No disrespect to Melo though, he's a great scorer.

[GimmeThat]

3-4
I don't see them 2peating unless Melo/Pippen won the FMVP in separate years

[atljonesbro]

Honestly like 2 or 3. Those bulls teams were some of the most stacked of all time

[Smoke117]

True--but they had the #2 defense in 95' even without MJ and Rodman/Grant (95' was peak Pippen on defense). I do agree they would generally drop-off substantially defensively in most years under this scenario.

Where is MJ in this scenario? Never existed? Retired? On a good team? If he doesn't exist--and he wouldn't in 94' at least, you have to compare Pippen/Carmelo/Rodman or Grant/Kukoc to what else was out there in the East and anyone who says they wouldn't be consistent contenders is being unrealistic. Again, look at Cleveland, New York, Indiana and Miami in those years. Pippen and Carmelo would both be better than the best player on Cleveland and Indiana and they would be both be comparable to the best player on the Knicks and Heat. They also would have the best #3 and #4 players in pretty much ever case (Nance>Grant). Plus Phil Jackson.

*smirk* I know that, but the problem is that Pip was wiped out defensively in 95. Though if we are going to assume he still has Grant or Rodman than that takes a lot of weight off him defensively. Scottie was by far the most dominant defensive perimeter player in 94 and ESPECIALLY 95, but that was because he had to in that latter year with Jordan and Grant gone. I remember how they used to say he couldn't finish games offensively because he was so worn down playing defense...and it was true. He was fine in 94 when Grant was there...the bulls were actually better defensively in 94 than 93 with Jordan, so they would have been great with with a Pip/melo/grant or Rodman, but it's a lot more work on Scottie to basically have to do all the heavy work on the perimeter alone.

[Roundball_Rock]

I know that, but the problem is that Pip was wiped out defensively in 95. Though if we are going to assume he still has Grant or Rodman than that takes a lot of weight off him defensively. Scottie was by far the most dominant defensive perimeter player in 94 and ESPECIALLY 95, but that was because he had to in that latter year with Jordan and Grant gone. I remember how they used to say he couldn't finish games offensively because he was so worn down playing defense...and it was true. He was fine in 94 when Grant was there...the bulls were actually better defensively in 94 than 93 with Jordan, so they would have been great with with a Pip/melo/grant or Rodman, but it's a lot more work on Scottie to basically have to do all the heavy work on the perimeter alone.

:applause:

Yeah people forget he was asked to do everything in 95' and it did show in terms of fatigue.

[aboss4real24]

melo is a better shooter than mj and rebounder

[Smoke117]

:applause:

Yeah people forget he was asked to do everything in 95' and it did show in terms of fatigue.

I know and it only pisses me off. Scottie had the greatest defensive season by a non PF/C either by far...he literally led the league in drating that season while averaging 3spg and 1.2bpg. The fact that Mutombo was given the DPOY is the greatest travesty of the award ever. We always say how much big men to defense and it's frankly TRUE...but Scottie was literally the best defensive player in the league by eye and stats and still got screwed over because that stiff Mutombo averaged 4.0bpg. Ugh. It's doubly acidic because I don't find Mutombo was that great of a defender...he had long arms and a feel for blocking shots and defense, but he moved around like an old man when he was in his 20s. He's a joke defenisvely to Hakeem, Robinson, AND ZO.

[sekachu]

you guys are selling melo a bit short.

the bulls were one call away from the eastern conference finals WITHOUT a serviceable sg (scorer). you give pippen a carmelo anthony and they win it all.


Did you mean whoever players like kobe, lebron or even melo (lol) would be equivalent MJ's legacy if they played with 90 bulls?

[deja vu]

C'mon Melo wouldn't even be a top 10 player in the 90s.

Grant Hill pre-injury was miles better as a player than him.

1 title at most.

[deja vu]

melo is a better shooter than mj and rebounder
Better shooter? LOL please post their FG% stats.

[tragicbronson]

Better shooter? LOL please post their FG% stats.

Who's a better shooter of these 2?

Stephen Curry 2013/14 47% fg
Tony Parker 2013/14 50% fg

[Sarcastic]

C'mon Melo wouldn't even be a top 10 player in the 90s.

Grant Hill pre-injury was miles better as a player than him.

1 title at most.


Let's not go that far. Hill was scurred to shoot for half his career.

[ImKobe]

I'd say 2 or 3 in total. Melo is no defensive stopper, but the Bulls have the best perimeter defender in Pippen.

But then the question is, would MJ still be on a different team in the league? Because if he is, there's a number of teams he could dominate the era with. Rockets obviously come in mind and Portland was not terrible either.

Imagine if MJ formed a big 3 with Barkley and KJ from that era.

[Roundball_Rock]

I know and it only pisses me off. Scottie had the greatest defensive season by a non PF/C either by far...he literally led the league in drating that season while averaging 3spg and 1.2bpg. The fact that Mutombo was given the DPOY is the greatest travesty of the award ever. We always say how much big men to defense and it's frankly TRUE...but Scottie was literally the best defensive player in the league by eye and stats and still got screwed over because that stiff Mutombo averaged 4.0bpg. Ugh. It's doubly acidic because I don't find Mutombo was that great of a defender...he had long arms and a feel for blocking shots and defense, but he moved around like an old man when he was in his 20s. He's a joke defenisvely to Hakeem, Robinson, AND ZO.

Yeah Pip was robbed in 95'. He led the #2 defense; Mutumbo led the #14 defense. Mutumbo winning DPOY that year is like a player on a 42 win team winning the MVP.

[juju151111]

0......

[aboss4real24]

Who's a better shooter of these 2?

Stephen Curry 2013/14 47% fg
Tony Parker 2013/14 50% fg


funny how he never answered this...