JR Smith vs. John Starks- Who was a better Knick?

[NBAplayoffs2001]

srs debate here

[Roundball_Rock]

Starks, even though he was one of the embodiment of how the 90's Knicks were a dirty team that resorted to underhanded tactics to offset their deficit in basketball skill relative to other top teams (i.e. Chicago). Starks was a good defender and a 18-19 ppg second option in 93' and 94'. He was never the same, though, after his choke in Game 7. That is ironic since had his three not been blocked by Hakeem and went in at the end of Game 6 he would have been FMVP.

[NBAplayoffs2001]

Starks, even though he was one of the embodiment of how the 90's Knicks were a dirty team that resorted to underhanded tactics to offset their deficit in basketball skill relative to other top teams (i.e. Chicago). Starks was a good defender and a 18-19 ppg second option in 93' and 94'. He was never the same, though, after his choke in Game 7. That is ironic since had his three not been blocked by Hakeem and went in at the end of Game 6 he would have been FMVP.

Thank you, legit post. :cheers:

[kNicKz]

wtf kind of question is this?

:facepalm

[JtotheIzzo]

Amare Stoudamire or Willis Reed?

[Rocketswin2013]

Raymond Felton or Walt Frazier

[Legends66NBA7]

Similarities, both won the 6th man of the year award at one point during their career when they were the Knicks. And I think that's where it ends.


Starks played both ends of the floor much better and had much more defining moments as a Knick than Smith. It's obviously Starks. Smith in 16 career playoff games has a 32.6 fg% and 24.5 3pt%...

13.6 ppg on 15 shots during the playoffs as Knick. :biggums:

[Patrick Chewing]

srs debate here


Can't have that with a stupid question like this. :rolleyes:

[SpecialQue]

One of my favorite scenes in the Reggie 30 for 30 was a clip from a postgame interview after the Knicks lost, when Reggie singled out Starks choking (in those words) as being a factor for the Pacers winning.

Does Smith have any memorable Knicks moments, aside from acting a fool (untying shoes and shit)?

[imdaman99]

You didn't watch the 90s Knicks if you think this is a serious question :facepalm

Starks was the heart and soul of the Knicks. JR is the trash and entitled guy that is the biggest reason for the Knicks failures the last 2 years. Last year he bombed out in the playoffs (what a surprise, I'm sure he shoots 27% for his career in the playoffs anyway) and this year, could not even come close to living up to last year.

Starks >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> JR Shit

[SamuraiSWISH]

Starks was a headcase, but in a different way. Crazy eyes, mental midget who could get suckered into confrontation. He was still a near 20 ppg, with outstanding gritty man to man defense. On those merits alone he's better than JR Smith. That guy is a talented scorer, whose a bonehead, with little defensive abilities.

[el gringos]

A lot of Knicks fans here think hardaway jr is better than JR. So those opinions are what you are looking for?

[FKAri]

Patrick Ewing or Andrea Bargnani?

[played0ut]

One of my favorite scenes in the Reggie 30 for 30 was a clip from a postgame interview after the Knicks lost, when Reggie singled out Starks choking (in those words) as being a factor for the Pacers winning.


hah! That was hilarious.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=656noCVKWLg


Watch this. It's about Reggie annoying the shit out of the Knicks team, and Patrick Ewing gets scolded by Stark's mother.


The entire thing is ****ing hilarious. :lol

[QuebecBaller]

ban the OP please...

[Smoke117]

You didn't watch the 90s Knicks if you think this is a serious question :facepalm

Starks was the heart and soul of the Knicks. JR is the trash and entitled guy that is the biggest reason for the Knicks failures the last 2 years. Last year he bombed out in the playoffs (what a surprise, I'm sure he shoots 27% for his career in the playoffs anyway) and this year, could not even come close to living up to last year.

Starks >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> JR Shit

Yeah the guy carried the Knicks throughout the playoffs in the mid 90s...:roll: :roll: :roll: Shut the **** up. Starks was a better defensive player and that's about it. Starks was basically the 2nd leading scorer on the Knicks wjem he was a borderline 3rd option, frankly. I can't stand JR Smith, but he's clearly a more talented athlete and basketball player. The fact of the matter is that he's an idiot though...Starks on the other hand just was never that good, period. Effort only goes so far as game 7 of the 1994 finals attest to.

Basically asking this question is like asking who was better on the Spurs...Derek Anderson or Stephen Jackson...who the **** cares? Neither those two players is worth an entire thread comparison and neither is Jon starks and JR Smith.

[East_Stone_Ya]

is this a serious question?

[JohnMax]

John Starks vs. Jordan

http://i.imgur.com/bmxRJ06.jpg

Jr. Smith vs. Kobe

http://i.imgur.com/gIF4jx4.jpg

[LBJFTW]

I would say starks but I'm afraid it's smith.

Smith would never have allowed Reggie Miller to get in his head like Starks did.

Miller pretty much shit on Starks and made him his bitch.

[Roundball_Rock]

Starks was the heart and soul of the Knicks.

So it wasn't Ewing? I am not saying I disagree. I am just curious to hear from someone who followed the team much more closely than I did.

[JellyBean]

Starks without a doubt.

[f0und]

starks no question

JR has more athletic ability and raw talent, but dude is dumb as bricks.

starks isnt a basketball genius, but he's waaaay smarter than JR on the court. and he's a much tougher defender.

[LBJFTW]

So it wasn't Ewing? I am not saying I disagree. I am just curious to hear from someone who followed the team much more closely than I did.

It was Ewing...don't listen to that guy lol.

[LBJFTW]

starks no question

JR has more athletic ability and raw talent, but dude is dumb as bricks.

starks isnt a basketball genius, but he's waaaay smarter than JR on the court. and he's a much tougher defender.

Yes.... he's such a tough defender he can't even trap Jordan in the corner and he let Reggie have his way with him. :rolleyes:

http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/Michael-Jordan-Dunk-on-Patrick-Ewing.gif

[imdaman99]

Yeah the guy carried the Knicks throughout the playoffs in the mid 90s...:roll: :roll: :roll: Shut the **** up. Starks was a better defensive player and that's about it. Starks was basically the 2nd leading scorer on the Knicks wjem he was a borderline 3rd option, frankly. I can't stand JR Smith, but he's clearly a more talented athlete and basketball player. The fact of the matter is that he's an idiot though...Starks on the other hand just was never that good, period. Effort only goes so far as game 7 of the 1994 finals attest to.

Basically asking this question is like asking who was better on the Spurs...Derek Anderson or Stephen Jackson...who the **** cares? Neither those two players is worth an entire thread comparison and neither is Jon starks and JR Smith.
Heart and soul doesn't imply he's the best player captain dumbass. I watched Knicks in the 90s for a living. There's a reason John Starks was the fan favorite, he symbolized a come from nothing attitude that didn't play like he was entitled. He made the most out of his talents while JR Shit is making the worst. Is he more talented than John Starks? Absolutely, but he doesn't play with half the passion or even remotely live up to his abilities.

Also, at least spell his name right if you wanna disrespect him by comparing him to JR.

Jon Starks :roll:

Don't waste my time by having me reply to your sorry ass again, peaceout fool have a nice day!

[Legends66NBA7]

Yes.... he's such a tough defender he can't even trap Jordan in the corner and he let Reggie have his way with him. :rolleyes:

http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/Michael-Jordan-Dunk-on-Patrick-Ewing.gif

Starks is a better defender than Smith, that's the point.

What's the gif supposed to show ? Jordan made an incredible move and schooled that trap. 1 play doesn't take away from the fact that Starks could still play Jordan or anyone else for that matter tough and really good.

[imdaman99]

Yes.... he's such a tough defender he can't even trap Jordan in the corner and he let Reggie have his way with him. :rolleyes:

http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/Michael-Jordan-Dunk-on-Patrick-Ewing.gif
You really are an idiot. Do you know defense? Starks did trap him, which is why MJ went the other way and attacked baseline, which was Oakley's responsibility. That is an all time great move by the greatest player of all time, get a clue fool.

[imdaman99]

I would say starks but I'm afraid it's smith.

Smith would never have allowed Reggie Miller to get in his head like Starks did.

Miller pretty much shit on Starks and made him his bitch.
The fact that the Knicks won the Pacers rivalry means you are 15 years old. You didn't watch it, all you know about is Reggie scoring 25 in a quarter or his 8 in 8.4 seconds. John Starks got the better of Reggie more often than not. In the one year that Reggie Miller did get past the Knicks, who is a lot more talented than John Starks, was the Ewing missing a wide open finger roll at the buzzer of game 7 series. Yes Reggie had more memorable moments, but there's a reason Reggie dedicated a chapter in his book to John Starks. It was a respect to the rivalry, which you clearly know nothing about.

Yeah, I'm sure JR would never let Reggie get in his head. Instead, he let Jason Terry get in his head. STFU already.

[wally_world]

Bernard King or Iman Shumpert?

[imdaman99]

So it wasn't Ewing? I am not saying I disagree. I am just curious to hear from someone who followed the team much more closely than I did.
Ewing was by far the best player, but he often left a bad taste in my mouth with his failed guarantees. Ewing was drafted to be an all time great when he came out of college. I'm not even going to pretend I was paying attention to basketball back then, but as I look back on it and read things... Ewing was supposed to be so much better. I have grown fonder of him as time goes on, because I am a long suffering Knicks fan that misses them days when they were relevant even against the greatest player of all time in his prime.

Starks, there was no expectations for and he made the most of it. He never backed down from anyone, which at times was detrimental against the likes of MJ or Reggie or even Pippen. I remember the headbutt :oldlol: It was a stupid thing to do, but at the time I was young and dumb and I liked that he had that tough as nails NY attitude. 94 Game 7 was the lowpoint in my love for him, but I realize he almost won them the series in the game before. JR Smith has nothing on John Starks outside of raw talent and athleticism. The comparison doesn't fit.

John Starks <3

[avonbarksdale]

robb stark

[Pointguard]

You really are an idiot. Do you know defense? Starks did trap him, which is why MJ went the other way and attacked baseline, which was Oakley's responsibility. That is an all time great move by the greatest player of all time, get a clue fool.
I was wondering what the poster was thinking. I think, he thinks Oakley is Starks???

[imdaman99]

I was wondering what the poster was thinking. I think, he thinks Oakley is Starks???
I think he expected Starks to cover both sides on a trap :roll:

Poster is showing either his age, his basketball knowledge or both :oldlol:

[chocolatethunder]

Ewing was by far the best player, but he often left a bad taste in my mouth with his failed guarantees. Ewing was drafted to be an all time great when he came out of college. I'm not even going to pretend I was paying attention to basketball back then, but as I look back on it and read things... Ewing was supposed to be so much better. I have grown fonder of him as time goes on, because I am a long suffering Knicks fan that misses them days when they were relevant even against the greatest player of all time in his prime.

Starks, there was no expectations for and he made the most of it. He never backed down from anyone, which at times was detrimental against the likes of MJ or Reggie or even Pippen. I remember the headbutt :oldlol: It was a stupid thing to do, but at the time I was young and dumb and I liked that he had that tough as nails NY attitude. 94 Game 7 was the lowpoint in my love for him, but I realize he almost won them the series in the game before. JR Smith has nothing on John Starks outside of raw talent and athleticism. The comparison doesn't fit.

John Starks <3

I have to disagree with you on this. Ewing was the heart and soul of the Knicks. He was a warrior. He was drafted to be an all time great and he most certainly is an all time great. The guy definitely lived up to his expectations. I'm not sure what you were looking back on or reading about but if anyone ever gave their all to a franchise it would be that dude. Their teams were not that good. They were grinding it out playing tough D and Ewing was right there leading the team. I'm not even a Knick fan or a Ewing fan but this dude led a team with not a lot of offensive talent to the finals. No one played harder than Ewing. It wasn't his fault that he was playing in the east and facing Bird and Jordan and Isaiah. Starks was great but he was a moron. He played hard but he got taken out of games so easily and just made dumb as shit mistakes. Those teams played ugly basketball, which is a credit to Riley and his ability to adapt to the type of talent he had on his roster. I'm not sure if you were old enough to understand what Ewing was to the Knicks. Ewing was the Knicks. He didn't care about fame or credit or any shit like that. He went out there and worked and shit all over the league.

[The Genius]

So now a guy that worked his way up from the CBA to highlighting in the NBA Finals isn't worth a thread? Yeah let's have another thread about MJ or LeBron. It's not like those are tedious in the extreme.

[Roundball_Rock]

It is a shame. The Knicks finally got a talented team around Ewing but by then he was past his prime. Imagine if they got players like Johnson, Houston and Sprewell around him in his prime. The 1993-1995 Knicks were very good but they did it via dominant defense, not because they were a supremely talented bunch.

[imdaman99]

It is a shame. The Knicks finally got a talented team around Ewing but by then he was past his prime. Imagine if they got players like Johnson, Houston and Sprewell around him in his prime. The 1993-1995 Knicks were very good but they did it via dominant defense, not because they were a supremely talented bunch.
My sentiments exactly. Complete opposite of current Knicks who have the talent but no heart or determination. Even their best player only plays defense sometimes, not all the time like a leader should.

I have no attachments to the current Knicks except the 1 guy that plays defense whenever he's out there : Shump.
And Hardaway too, but that's only because he is young and shows promise :oldlol:

[imdaman99]

I have to disagree with you on this. Ewing was the heart and soul of the Knicks. He was a warrior. He was drafted to be an all time great and he most certainly is an all time great. The guy definitely lived up to his expectations. I'm not sure what you were looking back on or reading about but if anyone ever gave their all to a franchise it would be that dude. Their teams were not that good. They were grinding it out playing tough D and Ewing was right there leading the team. I'm not even a Knick fan or a Ewing fan but this dude led a team with not a lot of offensive talent to the finals. No one played harder than Ewing. It wasn't his fault that he was playing in the east and facing Bird and Jordan and Isaiah. Starks was great but he was a moron. He played hard but he got taken out of games so easily and just made dumb as shit mistakes. Those teams played ugly basketball, which is a credit to Riley and his ability to adapt to the type of talent he had on his roster. I'm not sure if you were old enough to understand what Ewing was to the Knicks. Ewing was the Knicks. He didn't care about fame or credit or any shit like that. He went out there and worked and shit all over the league.
Like I said, I don't dispute Ewing was easily the best player on the Knicks. When he came out of college he was projected to be Bill Russell with offense. I'm not going to pretend I knew what basketball was when Ewing got drafted, but I know something about history. Bill Russell is arguably the greatest defensive player and winner ever. Ewing was way better offensively than defensively, even though he was pretty good on defense.

I guess you can chalk up not winning to having to go through prime MJ, but the best chance he had was in 94. And in 94 he got thoroughly outplayed by Hakeem, a great center who did not have that much talent surrounding him, much like Ewing. But Hakeem got it done and Ewing did not. But I do miss him. At least when he was on the Knicks, the Knicks were a threat. Now with Melo for the next 5 years, I can't get too excited.

[Roundball_Rock]

Yeah. The title was their for his taking but he shot only 36% in the Finals, although he did have a good impact defensively and rebounding. He definitely did torch Chicago in Game 7 with 18 second half points, though. That was what won the Knicks that game that year. You are right that team consistently did display heart. I did not like them, for obvious reasons, but I could not help but to respect them. One wonders if they could have gotten back to the Finals in 95' if Ewing's finger roll went in. I doubt they would have beaten Orlando but you never know. Given their playoff experience they probably would have acquitted themselves better in the Finals than the young Orlando team did.

How is Ewing perceived in New York these days? I know he received a lot of criticism when he played. Has the poor performance post-Ewing caused views to become more favorable to him? Ewing reminds me a lot of what McNabb is to Philadelphia. McNabb is still too recent for people's opinions to moderate on him but in Ewing's case New York has had a decade and a half to soberly assess him.

[chocolatethunder]

Like I said, I don't dispute Ewing was easily the best player on the Knicks. When he came out of college he was projected to be Bill Russell with offense. I'm not going to pretend I knew what basketball was when Ewing got drafted, but I know something about history. Bill Russell is arguably the greatest defensive player and winner ever. Ewing was way better offensively than defensively, even though he was pretty good on defense.

I guess you can chalk up not winning to having to go through prime MJ, but the best chance he had was in 94. And in 94 he got thoroughly outplayed by Hakeem, a great center who did not have that much talent surrounding him, much like Ewing. But Hakeem got it done and Ewing did not. But I do miss him. At least when he was on the Knicks, the Knicks were a threat. Now with Melo for the next 5 years, I can't get too excited.
Again, I'm not sure if you were to young to see them play but those Houston teams were incredible and the Knicks played them tough. Houston was extremely talented and Cassell and Horry were very different players back then. Otis Thorpe was an absolute beast. Those teams rank in the tops for great teams to me.

Ewing was a very good defender and was a great scorer and he's was just all around good. I don't remember the bill russel comparisons but even there were, Ewing is one of the best centers ever. He got outplayed by Hakeem? During those two seasons no one and I mean no one was playing on his level. He still managed to rebound and do his best. The rockets were head and shoulders better than the Knicks and the Knicks played them tough. You may want to read more because those Houston teams were unreal.

[Hey Yo]

Yeah. The title was their for his taking but he shot only 36% in the Finals, although he did have a good impact defensively and rebounding. He definitely did torch Chicago in Game 7 with 18 second half points, though. That was what won the Knicks that game that year. You are right that team consistently did display heart. I did not like them, for obvious reasons, but I could not help but to respect them. One wonders if they could have gotten back to the Finals in 95' if Ewing's finger roll went in. I doubt they would have beaten Orlando but you never know. Given their playoff experience they probably would have acquitted themselves better in the Finals than the young Orlando team did.

How is Ewing perceived in New York these days? I know he received a lot of criticism when he played. Has the poor performance post-Ewing caused views to become more favorable to him? Ewing reminds me a lot of what McNabb is to Philadelphia. McNabb is still too recent for people's opinions to moderate on him but in Ewing's case New York has had a decade and a half to soberly assess him.
2010 Article by Chris Sheridan talking to Doc Rivers (who played for the NYK at the time)about the "fu**ing Charles Smith missed lay up's game of 93"

http://www.si.com/mlb/2014/07/28/mlb-power-rankings-athletics-rangers-brewers-redsespn.go.com/blog/new-york/knicks/post/_/id/84/today-17th-anniversary-of-the-charles-smith-game

[Roundball_Rock]

2010 Article by Chris Sheridan talking to Doc Rivers (who played for the NYK at the time)about the "fu**ing Charles Smith missed lay up's game of 93"

http://www.si.com/mlb/2014/07/28/mlb-power-rankings-athletics-rangers-brewers-redsespn.go.com/blog/new-york/knicks/post/_/id/84/today-17th-anniversary-of-the-charles-smith-game

That was a great finish. :rockon: That link didn't work, though?