ISH All-Time List: Vote on #5 Now.

[russwest0]

http://lakernation.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/WCtop31813.jpg

The results are in from the previous vote and Wilt Chamberlain was voted as the 4th best player of all time (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=349040).

Current ISH All-Time List:
1. Michael Jordan - SG (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=348939).
2. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar - C (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=348961).
3. Bill Russell - C (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=349040).
4. Wilt Chamberlain - C (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=349136).

To vote on who you think the 5th best player of all time is, simply comment their name below and I will keep track of the votes in the post directly below this one. Once a consensus is reached (after 30 total votes or one day) we will add that player to the list and move on from there.

P.S. - **** Real GM

[russwest0]

Votes:

Duncan - 20
Kobe - 12
Bird - 12
Shaq - 7

Duncan wins this round.

[Im so nba'd out]

Welp another list kobe is not top 5 in :applause:

[RRR3]

Shaquille O'Neal

[WillC]

Larry Bird

[Lebronxrings]

lebron james.

[MP.Trey]

Tim Duncan. It's basically a tie between him and Bird for me but I'm going to give Duncan the edge for longevity.

[qrich]

Timothy Duncan

[Fudge]

Larry Bird

[ralph_i_el]

Smush parker

[Dbrog]

Tim Duncan :bowdown:

[BuffaloBill]

Tim Duncan

[PerfectCell]

Duncan

[Genaro]

Kobe Bryant

[stalkerforlife]

Kobe Bryant.

And how can anyone realistically put Snaq ahead of Kobe? He has one more finals MVP, that's it. Kobe has the accolades, more titles, greater longevity, etc.

[russwest0]

I'm going to have to vote for Kobe as well.

[RRR3]

Kobe Bryant.

And how can anyone realistically put Snaq ahead of Kobe? He has one more finals MVP, that's it. Kobe has the accolades, more titles, greater longevity, etc.
Because he was a better player, that's why.

[VengefulAngel]

Shaq.

[Carbine]

Duncan.

[russwest0]

Because he was a better player, that's why.

So thats why he was ringchasing like none other to try and ensure that he wouldn't finish with less rings than Kobe, but still did anyways?

:roll: :roll: :roll:

[Myth]

Duncan.

[TheMarkMadsen]

Kobe

[bballnoob1192]

wtf........ magic not one vote yet........

[Rocketswin2013]

Duncan, Magic, Shaq, Bird or Kobe.....Damn.

I'm gonna think about it some more

[BoutPractice]

Tim Duncan.

[kennethgriffin]

Duncan

[Roundball_Rock]

Shaquille O'Neal. Arguably the GOAT peak, win 4 rings and made 6 Finals, turned Orlando around and took L.A. and MIA to the next level, had good longevity (a prime from 1994-2005 and two other top 10 seasons in 1993 and 2006 and he was a legitimate all-star as late as 2009).

[kurple]

Duncan

No way should kobe be top 8

[Horatio33]

Tim Duncan

[stalkerforlife]

Because he was a better player, that's why.

He absolutely was not better than Kobe, when considering their ENTIRE careers. You are focused way too much on just the three-peat.

Kobe without Shaq DWARFS Shaq without Kobe.

[LosBulls]

Shaquille Oneal

[ImKobe]

Kobe Bryant.

[ralph_i_el]

Kobe Bryant.

And how can anyone realistically put Snaq ahead of Kobe? He has one more finals MVP, that's it. Kobe has the accolades, more titles, greater longevity, etc.
Because he was better at basketball? And Kobe wouldn't have near that resume without him.

[Roundball_Rock]

He absolutely was not better than Kobe, when considering their ENTIRE careers. You are focused way too much on just the three-peat.

Kobe without Shaq DWARFS Shaq without Kobe.

Yeah but they are not comparable situations. Shaq without Kobe includes his early and later years. Kobe without Shaq includes Kobe's peak years and most of his prime.

Shaq simply was the more dominant player. The things that Kobe has an edge on are not enough to offset that fact imo.

[bagelred]

Andrew Wiggins

[Orlando Magic]

Duncan

[Rocketswin2013]

Gotta pick Shaq

[SHAQisGOAT]

Well I got Bird and Magic at 4/5, usually giving the edge to Larry, so...

Larry Bird

[RRR3]

Kobetards taking over this thread

[Orlando Magic]

This is going to go like this... Duncan wins 5th, Shaq 6th, Magic 7th, and then Kobe or Bird is taking 8th because I know ISH posters... Kobe might climb as high as 7th even though he belongs after Bird, Johnson, O'Neal, Garnett, James & Olajuwon at the very least.

[stalkerforlife]

Duncan

No way should kobe be top 8

Ignorant statement.

Most ever first team ALL-NBA selections.

Most ever first team ALL-DEFENSE selections.

31,700 points and counting. (4th most all time)

3rd most points in playoff history.

5th most steals in playoff history.

Most game winning shots in the history of the NBA.

7th most playoff assists in NBA history.

5 titles.

Etc. Etc. Etc. I'm bored with the ignorance.

[K Xerxes]

This is hard between Shaq and Duncan for me. I'll give it to Duncan for overall career even though I think Shaq was probably the better player, especially peak.

[Orlando Magic]

This is hard between Shaq and Duncan for me. I'll give it to Duncan for overall career even though I think Shaq was probably the better player, especially peak.

Correct.

If you're starting their careers tomorrow and coaches and teammates are equal, give me Shaq though. Actually... in that instance, give me Shaq over everyone on the list. :)

[moe94]

Duncan

[stalkerforlife]

Because he was better at basketball? And Kobe wouldn't have near that resume without him.

Do you realize how idiotic that sounds? Do you know what a double standard is? Do you not realize Kobe's career DWARFS Shaq's when they didn't play together?

Kobe was better WITHOUT Shaq and Shaq RING CHASED and STILL couldn't outdo Kobe.

[RRR3]

Before I go to bed each night, I always make sure I have my "Li'l Mamba" doll.
:rolleyes:

[Orlando Magic]

Do you realize how idiotic that sounds? Do you know what a double standard is? Do you not realize Kobe's career DWARFS Shaq's when they didn't play together?

Kobe was better WITHOUT Shaq and Shaq RING CHASED and STILL couldn't outdo Kobe.

Wrong. Shaq took two teams to the Finals as the clear cut most important piece on said teams... while Kobe took three teams to the Finals as... the second most important piece on said teams (beind LA's frontcourt of Pau/Bynum)...

He also robbed himself and Shaq of another ring by shooting the Lakers out of the 04 Finals and not passing the ball. He was hell bent determined to win Finals MVP or not win at all. Go re-watch that series brah.

Kobe is such a unique case... one of the greatest to ever do it and also the most overrated player at the exact same time. What a conundrum.

[K Xerxes]

Ignorant statement.

Most ever first team ALL-NBA selections.

Regular season longevity award. He wouldn't be first if centers had two spots on the team like guards or forwards.


Most ever first team ALL-DEFENSE selections.

Same as above.


31,700 points and counting. (4th most all time)

10th on ppg list.


3rd most points in playoff history.

6th on ppg list.


5th most steals in playoff history.

17th on spg list.


Most game winning shots in the history of the NBA.

Most missed game winning shots in history of NBA too.


7th most playoff assists in NBA history.

Not even top 20 in apg.


5 titles.

First useful argument, though he only led two of them.

Kobe has little case over Jordan, Kareem, Russell, Wilt, Duncan, Shaq, Magic and Bird honestly.

[stalkerforlife]

Wrong. Shaq took two teams to the Finals as the clear cut most important piece on said teams... while Kobe took three teams to the Finals as... the second most important piece on said teams (beind LA's frontcourt of Pau/Bynum)...

He also robbed himself and Shaq of another ring by shooting the Lakers out of the 04 Finals and not passing the ball. He was hell bent determined to win Finals MVP or not win at all. Go re-watch that series brah.

Bad troll attempt, my dude.

Goodnight.

[Orlando Magic]

Bad troll attempt, my dude.

Goodnight.

It's not trolling... well... I am trying to piss you off, but everything I said is true.

[Fudge]

Wrong. Shaq took two teams to the Finals as the clear cut most important piece on said teams... while Kobe took three teams to the Finals as... the second most important piece on said teams (beind LA's frontcourt of Pau/Bynum)...

He also robbed himself and Shaq of another ring by shooting the Lakers out of the 04 Finals and not passing the ball. He was hell bent determined to win Finals MVP or not win at all. Go re-watch that series brah.

Kobe is such a unique case... one of the greatest to ever do it and also the most overrated player at the exact same time. What a conundrum.
Lmao

[Orlando Magic]

Lmao

You remember what PEAK & PRIME Kobe did with the Lakers after Shaq got traded? He missed the ****ing playoffs you stupid ****.

You can't miss the playoffs in your prime and seriously be considered a top 10 NBA all time player. LMFAO. That's what's a joke. Name another top 10 player who missed the playoffs in his prime.

HE MISSED THE ****ING PLAYOFFS IN HIS ****ING PRIME!!! LLLLLOOOOLLLLLLLLL

[K Xerxes]

Correct.

If you're starting their careers tomorrow and coaches and teammates are equal, give me Shaq though. Actually... in that instance, give me Shaq over everyone on the list. :)

Shaq's longevity is criminally underrated. Which player had the most 20-10 seasons consecutively? Kareem? Wilt? Hakeem? Duncan? Nope, it was Shaq. Thirteen seasons in which he averaged 26-12 overall. That is just absurd. Throw in arguably the MDE peak and a 3 peat, and you've got a very strong argument for top 5 all time.

What I will say about Duncan is that he's been the defensive anchor for 17 seasons now. While his offense has waned, he is still one of the elite defenders in the league.

[BlackWhiteGreen]

Bird.

[Smook A.]

Timmy

[Fudge]

You remember what PEAK & PRIME Kobe did with the Lakers after Shaq got traded? He missed the ****ing playoffs you stupid ****.

You can't miss the playoffs in your prime and seriously be considered a top 10 NBA all time player. LMFAO. That's what's a joke. Name another top 10 player who missed the playoffs in his prime.

HE MISSED THE ****ING PLAYOFFS IN HIS ****ING PRIME!!! LLLLLOOOOLLLLLLLLL
Stop trolling, little buddy.

Settle down.

[moe94]

Kobetards wiggin out

[kennethgriffin]

Duncan

[robert_shaww]

Magic Johnson

[BigTicket]

Larry Bird

[stalkerforlife]

Regular season longevity award. He wouldn't be first if centers had two spots on the team like guards or forwards.

Excuses.


Same as above.

Excuses.


10th on ppg list.

Played 15.5 minutes per game as an 18 year old rookie on a storied franchise that wasn't handing over the keys to any high school player. Played 26.0 minutes as a 19 year old. I don't know, maybe that played a part. Good try, though.



6th on ppg list.

Which is amazing, considering he played 20 minutes or less in his first two playoff stints.

17th on spg list.

See above.

Most missed game winning shots in history of NBA too.

I guess when you make and take the most, you may very well have he most misses, too. "You miss 100% of the shots you don't take." It's called having testicles.


Not even top 20 in apg.

Led 5 title teams in assists.



First useful argument, though he only led two of them.

Kobe has little case over Jordan, Kareem, Russell, Wilt, Duncan, Shaq, Magic and Bird honestly.

Consider yourself dismissed.

[Heavincent]

Kobe

[Warfan]

Duncan

I basically have him tied with Shaq for #5. He outplayed him statistically in their playoff matchups, and no other player did that against prime Shaq. He has an elite impact on both ends of the floor, led the Spurs to atleast 50 wins every year (besides 99), and even though Shaq was better offensively, Duncan's 2-way impact is on par with Shaqs impact IMO

Career/accolades wise they're similar, but i've give the edge to Duncan. Better longevity and incredible consistency and dominance

[RRR3]

I swear to god if Kobe gets voted in :facepalm

7th is the ABSOLUTE highest i could see Bean being ranked and even that is silly IMO

[inclinerator]

kobe brian

[Orlando Magic]

I swear to god if Kobe gets voted in :facepalm

7th is the ABSOLUTE highest i could see Bean being ranked and even that is silly IMO


Kobe is going to get steamrolled at 6 in favor of Shaq because the vote won't be split between Shaq and Duncan. Highest he could possibly be on ISH is 7... and the rest of the world knows that's too high.

[Lord Bean]

Kobe

[DMV2]

Duncan

The Consensus Big Six(MJ, KAJ, WILT, RUSS, BIRD, MAGIC) has been broken in. Nobody more deserving than Duncan. :applause:

[RRR3]

Kobe is going to get steamrolled at 6 in favor of Shaq because the vote won't be split between Shaq and Duncan. Highest he could possibly be on ISH is 7... and the rest of the world knows that's too high.
Shaq and Duncan are taking away votes from each other so Kobe will probably win here

[Warfan]

Kobe is going to get steamrolled at 6 in favor of Shaq because the vote won't be split between Shaq and Duncan. Highest he could possibly be on ISH is 7... and the rest of the world knows that's too high.

I'll probably put Kobe at 9. I'll see tho

[Orlando Magic]

Shaq and Duncan are taking away votes from each other so Kobe will probably win here

No, Duncan is winning. Check the counts.

[kennethgriffin]

nobody left not on the top 4 can match kobes career

and thats what we're voting on

not 1 or 2 year peak windows



Kobe Bryant = all time record most 1st team all nba's and All NBA teams period



1998-99 NBA All-NBA (3rd)

1999-00 NBA All-NBA (2nd)

2000-01 NBA All-NBA (2nd)

2001-02 NBA All-NBA (1st)

2002-03 NBA All-NBA (1st)

2003-04 NBA All-NBA (1st)

2004-05 NBA All-NBA (3rd)

2005-06 NBA All-NBA (1st)

2006-07 NBA All-NBA (1st)

2007-08 NBA All-NBA (1st)

2008-09 NBA All-NBA (1st)

2009-10 NBA All-NBA (1st)

2010-11 NBA All-NBA (1st)

2011-12 NBA All-NBA (1st)

2012-13 NBA All-NBA (1st)






Kobe Bryant = all time record most 1st team all defensive



1999-00 NBA All-Defensive (1st)

2000-01 NBA All-Defensive (2nd)

2001-02 NBA All-Defensive (2nd)

2002-03 NBA All-Defensive (1st)

2003-04 NBA All-Defensive (1st)

2005-06 NBA All-Defensive (1st)

2006-07 NBA All-Defensive (1st)

2007-08 NBA All-Defensive (1st)

2008-09 NBA All-Defensive (1st)

2009-10 NBA All-Defensive (1st)

2010-11 NBA All-Defensive (1st)

2011-12 NBA All-Defensive (2nd)


Kobe Bryant = All time record most game winning shots


1. May 09, 1999: Lakers 101 - Rockets 100 (PO, game-winning FTs w/ 5.3 secs)

2. Dec. 27, 1999: Lakers 108 - Mavericks 106 (game-winning FTs w/ 8.6 secs)

3. May 10, 2000: Lakers 97 - Phoenix 96 (PO, jumper over Kidd w/ 2.6 secs)

4. Feb. 07, 2001: Lakers 85 - Phoenix 83 (jumper over Marion w/ 2.7 sec)

5. Feb. 13, 2001: Lakers 113 - Nets 110 (OT layup/and-1 w/ 4.8 secs)

6. Jan. 02, 2002: Lakers 87 - Nuggets 86 (off-reb and jumper w/ 55 secs)

7. Feb. 22, 2002: Lakers 96 - Hornets 94 (buzzer-beater, jumper over Lynch)

8. May 12, 2002: Lakers 87 - Spurs 85 (PO, off-reb and put-back w/ 5.1 secs)

9. Dec. 06, 2002: Lakers 105 - Mavericks 103 (turn-around jumper w/ 8 secs)

10. April 04, 2003: Lakers 102 - Grizzlies 101 (buzzer beater, jumper over Battier)

11. April 06, 2003: Lakers 115 - Suns 113 (OT, game-tying jumper for OT, jumper over Marion w/ 28.6 sec)

12. Dec. 19, 2003: Lakers 101 - Nuggets 99 (buzzer-beater, fade-away over Barry)

13. Mar. 21, 2004: Lakers 104 - Bucks 103 (OT jumper over Van Horn w/ 25.1 sec)

14. April 14, 2004: Lakers 105 - Blazers 104 (OT buzzer beater, game-tying 3-pointer for OT, fall-away 3-pointer)

15. Mar. 12, 2005: Lakers 117 - Bobcats 116 (jumper over Bogans w/ 0.9 secs)

16. Nov. 02, 2005: Lakers 99 - Nuggets 97 (OT jumper over Najera w/ 0.6 secs)

17. Dec. 04, 2005: Lakers 99 - Bobcats 98 (game-winning FTs w/ 7 secs)

18. Jan. 12, 2006: Lakers 99 - Cavaliers 98 (jumper over James w/ 8.6 secs)

19. April 30, 2006: Lakers 99 - Suns 98 (PO, OT buzzer-beater, game-tying tear-drop for OT, jumper over Diaw)

20. Jan. 14, 2008: Lakers 123 - Sonics 121 (OT jumper over Green w/ 4.3 secs)

21. Jan. 09, 2009: Lakers 121 - Pacers 119 (jumper over Jack w/ 3 secs)

22. Dec. 04, 2009: Lakers 108 - Heat 107 (buzzer-beater, 3-pointer over Wade)

23. Dec. 16, 2009: Lakers 107 - Bucks 106 (OT buzzer-beater, jumper over Bell)

24. Jan. 01, 2010: Lakers 109 - Kings 108 (buzzer-beater, 3-pointer)

25. Jan. 31, 2010: Lakers 90 - Celtics 89 (jumper over Allen w/ 7.3 secs)

26. Feb. 23, 2010: Lakers 99 - Grizzlies 98 (3-pointer over Gay w/ 4.3 secs)

27. Mar. 09, 2010: Lakers 109 - Raptors 107 (jumper over Wright w/ 1.9 secs)

28. Feb. 12, 2012: Lakers 93

[Heavincent]

Kobe is going to get steamrolled at 6 in favor of Shaq because the vote won't be split between Shaq and Duncan. Highest he could possibly be on ISH is 7... and the rest of the world knows that's too high.

Maybe if the rest of the world = RealGM

[qrich]

Kobetards are easily worse than LeBratards :facepalm

[RRR3]

Kobetards are easily worse than LeBratards :facepalm
Yeah LeBrons barely been mentioned

[kennethgriffin]

Kobetards are easily worse than LeBratards :facepalm


sucks having to lie through your teeth when so much evidence is staring you right in your ugly face huh

:roll:

[BoutPractice]

Once the top 5 is closed, Kobe will have to compete with not only Shaq but also Larry and Magic, who haven't been given a lot of consideration yet.

There is less of a vocal minority defending them as top 5 or 3 players, but once you get to the 6th spot, the majority is likely to get behind one of them on grounds that omitting both of them from a top 7 would be disrespectful.

[Harison]

Bird

[stalkerforlife]

sucks having to lie through your teeth when so much evidence is staring you right in your ugly face huh

:roll:

Sad to see emotion overcoming people like this. You HAVE to hate Kobe to have him out of the top 3-8.

[the mesiah]

http://fc07.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2012/089/4/1/skyhookgif3_by_dantheman9758-d4uenol.gif
1.Jordan
2.Magic
3.Lew Alcindor
4.Larry bird
5.Wilt
Russwest lil ole experiment list is gone to shit

[Champ]

Bird.

[SwayDizzle]

Kobe

[Jlamb47]

Kobe Bryant

[K Xerxes]

Excuses.

Excuses.

And excuses for being joint 12th all time list for MVPs? Since we're talking about the regular season and all...


Played 15.5 minutes per game as an 18 year old rookie on a storied franchise that wasn't handing over the keys to any high school player. Played 26.0 minutes as a 19 year old. I don't know, maybe that played a part. Good try, though.

Kobe wasn't a very good player at those ages. Besides he's played 37mpg for his career.


Which is amazing, considering he played 20 minutes or less in his first two playoff stints.

Career playoffs 39mpg.


See above.

See above.


I guess when you make and take the most, you may very well have he most misses, too. "You miss 100% of the shots you don't take." It's called having testicles.

Not particularly interested in a pseudo-psychological debate, but your argument would have credence if his FG% in game winning situations wasn't so abysmal. It's just praising chucking.


Led 5 title teams in assists.

Bob Cousy led 6 title teams in assists.

It's amazing what bs criteria you Kobe stans manage to contrive. Logical gymnastics at its finest.

[ninephive]

Duncan

[JUDGE WITNESS]

kobe

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Shaquille O'neal

[zoom17]

Bird

[Cousin Oliver]

Bird

[Rodmantheman]

Bird so many kobe votes lol

[RRR3]

Voting so far:

Tim Duncan-20
Kobe Bryant-12
Larry Bird-11
Shaquille O'Neal-6
Magic Johnson-5
LeBron James-1

[bballnoob1192]

lol kobe stans if you keep spamming him too early people will vote against him just to pissed you off. he will fall out of top ten cuz of this :)

[RRR3]

lol kobe stans if you keep spamming him too early people will vote against him just to pissed you off. he will fall out of top ten cuz of this :)
Hmm...are LeBron stans (the crazy ones, not sane ones like me) aware of this strategy then? They haven't been very vocal.

[stalkerforlife]

lol kobe stans if you keep spamming him too early people will vote against him just to pissed you off. he will fall out of top ten cuz of this :)

Have you seen his resume? We're just telling the truth.

[Young X]

nosnhoJ cigaM

[Iceman#44]

Larry Bird

[EnoughSaid]

Magic Johnson.

Kobe above Magic, Duncan, Bird, Shaq? Come on cuuuuh.

[Inferno]

Duncan

[played0ut]

Duncan

[HurricaneKid]

Have you seen his resume? We're just telling the truth.

You are conflating popularity for on court production and rewarding inefficient chucking.

The fact that you repeatedly tout his defensive prowess is reason enough for everyone everywhere to completely dismiss your arguments.

So I'll vote Duncan.

[choppermagic]

what?

How is Magic not in the top 5 voting? Guy was considered the GOAT before Jordan. Give this man his due.

All respect to Duncan, but he is a part of the SAS system now, now a standout leader. Magic did it all, in an era against another GOAT dynasty team, Bird's Celtics. Take either of those teams away, and the Celtics or lakers could have easily 7 or 8 rings in the decade.

Gotta give it to Magic.

[DFish24]

Magic Johnson

[Im so nba'd out]

Votes as of 2:41 pm est 7/28/14

Tim Duncan-19
Kobe Bryant-12
Larry Bird-11
Shaquille O'Neal-6
Magic Johnson-3
LeBron James-1
Michael Carter Williams-1

[RRR3]

You are conflating popularity for on court production and rewarding inefficient chucking.

The fact that you repeatedly tout his defensive prowess is reason enough for everyone everywhere to completely dismiss your arguments.

So I'll vote Duncan.
Kobe is a chucker, but he's not really inefficient.

[trabash]

I don't believe in listings like this at all, I will contribute nontheless:

Tayshaun Prince. :applause:

[HurricaneKid]

Kobe is a chucker, but he's not really inefficient.

Fair enough. But he isn't very efficient either. When you have a high volume player shooting more, a lot more, than any other player in the league for enormous periods of time he is going to compile a lot of counting stats.

[nzahir]

bird

[longhornfan1234]

Magic.

[Prometheus]

Tim Duncan

[played0ut]

what?

How is Magic not in the top 5 voting? Guy was considered the GOAT before Jordan. Give this man his due.


He was considered GOAT, yeah. But a lot can happen in 30 years lol.


Magic also has one MVP over Duncan. More dynamic and did more for the NBA.

I'm picking Duncan because of longevity, comparable accolades, AND his slew of All-Defensive teams. He was the defensive anchor. Basketball is played two ways and quite frankly, his impact on D blows Magic out of the water.


I wouldn't be too upset if Magic won though.



Magic did it all, in an era against another GOAT dynasty team, Bird's Celtics. Take either of those teams away, and the Celtics or lakers could have easily 7 or 8 rings in the decade.


The problem is you can argue that for any all-time great.


How many rings would wilt have if he didn't play against Russell's stacked Celtics? Shaq would've had 5 rings if he didn't play in the era of of Hakeem and GOAT centers.


Luck has always been a part of it.

[rhowen4]

i don't think tim duncan or kobe belong at 5

i'd pick shaq... but the list is messed up already imo

[ShackEelOKneel]

Shaq. His peak play was just amazing.

[JimmyMcAdocious]

Magic Johnbrook.

[iBandwagon]

Duncan.

[atljonesbro]

Tim Duncan

[kennethgriffin]

if duncan is voted 5th all time ahead of magic

i quit discussing rankings


be spiteful towards kobe all you want. but my god. have some respect for history. magic is considered a Goat candidate most places in the world



:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm



/thread


/ISH

[Denitron]

Larry Bird

[played0ut]

if duncan is voted 5th all time ahead of magic

i quit discussing rankings


be spiteful towards kobe all you want. but my god. have some respect for history. magic is considered a Goat candidate most places in the world



:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm



/thread


/ISH

First off, props that you're a fan of history. :applause:



But things change over time. You can easily put Bob cousy over magic using the same reasoning (6 rings, and was the first fast break PG who influenced pistol Pete and subsequently magic) or even Oscar Robertson.



You need to take everything into account. And while Duncan has comparable accolades as magic, he has longevity AND a career full of all defensive first teams.

Bball is a two way game and his defense blows magics out of the water.



And dude. How do you think I feel about bird? Insane peak, goat tier bbiq, love the man but I can't realistically put him above 8. :(

[r0drig0lac]

Timmy D

[BuffaloBill]

if duncan is voted 5th all time ahead of magic

i quit discussing rankings


be spiteful towards kobe all you want. but my god. have some respect for history. magic is considered a Goat candidate most places in the world



:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm



/thread


/ISH


Most of the players on this list are interchangeable. There is no real top 10 greatest players of all time.

[kurple]

Most of the players on this list are interchangeable. There is no real top 10 greatest players of all time.
I have it in tiers

1)
Jordan
2)
KAJ
Russell
3)
Duncan
Magic
Bird
4)
Shaq
Hakeem
5)
Kobe
LBJ
Big O

[T_L_P]

Timmy.

[Nowitness]

Guy I voted for last round (Duncan).

[SOD 21]

It is an absolute travesty if Magic Johnson isn't in the top five.

[SsKSpurs21]

Tim Duncan :rockon:

[USABall]

Tim Duncan

[BuffaloBill]

Timmy needs 3 more votes to win :rockon:

[Doctor K]

if duncan is voted 5th all time ahead of magic

i quit discussing rankings


be spiteful towards kobe all you want. but my god. have some respect for history. magic is considered a Goat candidate most places in the world



:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm



/thread


/ISH


Dude STFU you voted for Kobe instead of Magic to be in the Top 5 you are part of the problem






Magic Johnson

[SwayDizzle]

Kobe

[T_L_P]

:roll: at Griff voting twice for Kobe.

Dude complains about Magic not being top 5 and he doesn't even vote for him. Then he tries to skew the voting by picking Kobe twice.

He's shook.

[DaSeba5]

Magic Johnson

[Heavincent]

Kobe

Edit: Shit, forgot to log into my alt

[Akrazotile]

mikan

[Natureland]

Duncan

[zoom17]

change my vote to Duncan.

[kennethgriffin]

i change both my votes to duncan

[rmt]

Tim Duncan

[BuffaloBill]

:roll: at Griff voting twice for Kobe.



:roll:

[kennethgriffin]

Tim Duncan


^ this

:cheers:

[kennethgriffin]

Dat 19.9ppg average starting every season since his rookie year

beats kobes 28ppg average as a starter with the same rings and more all nba 1st teams/ defensive 1st teams

fo SHO


duncan losing to kobe 4 out of 6 times in the playoffs too

but who cares


TIMMY D! :bowdown:


who cares if he lost finals mvp to parker and leonard. kobe wouldn't stand a chance against those 2 guys either

:bowdown:


dat anchor! goat defense. who cares if he never won DPOTY

:bowdown:

[BuffaloBill]

That settles it. Duncan is #5



Not bad :cheers:

[kennethgriffin]

Meltdown level: kenneth


who cares if most people vote duncan 9th all time


hes 5th all time on ISH ahead of MAGIC JOHNSON.. the guy who was voted 2nd all time



http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/post/_/id/11090247/all-nba-players





















































INSIDEHOOPS.COM FORUMS

we da bess MAyn


:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

[played0ut]

Dat 19.9ppg average starting every season since his rookie year

beats kobes 28ppg average as a starter with the same rings and more all nba 1st teams/ defensive 1st teams

fo SHO


duncan losing to kobe 4 out of 6 times in the playoffs too

but who cares


TIMMY D! :bowdown:


who cares if he lost finals mvp to parker and leonard. kobe wouldn't stand a chance against those 2 guys either

:bowdown:


dat anchor! goat defense. who cares if he never won DPOTY

:bowdown:





Aside from Rings, he has more 'big' accolades than Kobe.

1x FMVP
1x MVP






Next one will be hard. MAgic or Kobe. I don't know who to pick.

[SwayDizzle]

:roll: :roll: :lol :lol

[kennethgriffin]

http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/post/_/id/11090247/all-nba-players

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[T_L_P]

http://assets.diylol.com/hfs/b76/b00/871/resized/i-don-t-always-meme-generator-loses-finals-mvp-to-parker-and-kawhi-still-has-more-than-kobe-142dc2.jpg

[MrC1991]

Larry Legend.

[stalkerforlife]

Calm down, Griff. Duncan at 5 is fine.

The ONLY issue I have is Kobe not being in the top 5, that is ridiculous.

[kennethgriffin]

http://assets.diylol.com/hfs/b76/b00/871/resized/i-don-t-always-meme-generator-loses-finals-mvp-to-parker-and-kawhi-still-has-more-than-kobe-142dc2.jpg


lmao @1999 lockout finals mvp

and

lmao @2005 ginobili averaging 20ppg on 60%fgs. duncan 20ppg on 40%fgs


both equally worthless too


and anyone even prime jordan would lose finals mvp to prime shaq

losing a finals mvp to prime shaq on a 2 man team isnt nearly as embarrassing as losing finals mvp on a 12 deep team to tony effing parker and kawhi who the **** leonard

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[K Xerxes]

http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/post/_/id/11090247/all-nba-players

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

It's just opinions on a basketball forum. Calm the **** down. Breathe. Take your medication.

[zizozain]

kobe

[kennethgriffin]

It's just opinions on a basketball forum. Calm the **** down. Breathe. Take your medication.


you think half the people on this forum post their opinion and arent just ****in with the other side. everythings agenda driven

if i started a thread "whos better bruce bowen or kobe bryant"


kobe might win the vote. but 10 guys will vote for bowen before the thread gets locked


so why bother even having votes if ISH is so drastically off when it comes to our votes vs the rest of the world


we're so god damn stupid as a collective opinion.

:facepalm


a real top 10 list doesnt have tim duncan ahead of magic johnson and larry bird


only on ISH

the only guy who comes close to a guy like magic is kobe from this era

and the only reason why people voted duncan was out of spite because other people voted for kobe

[BuffaloBill]

It's over Griff. Duncan won. Give it a rest.

[MastaKilla]

Kobe

[Donkey4trading]

Bryant, Kobe

[kennethgriffin]

It's over Griff. Duncan won. Give it a rest.


http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/post/_/id/11090247/all-nba-players













he only won on the idiot board.. our collective intelligence obviously isnt very high if we're replacing a 2nd best player all time by public opinion with the 9th best player all time by public opinion

ISH's is dumb as sh*t

no wonder real-GM dominates us

[K Xerxes]

you think half the people on this forum post their opinion and arent just ****in with the other side. everythings agenda driven

if i started a thread "whos better bruce bowen or kobe bryant"


kobe might win the vote. but 10 guys will vote for bowen before the thread gets locked


so why bother even having votes if ISH is so drastically off when it comes to our votes vs the rest of the world


we're so god damn stupid as a collective opinion.

:facepalm


a real top 10 list doesnt have tim duncan ahead of magic johnson and larry bird


only on ISH

What's the logic behind an 'agenda' for voting Duncan in the top 5? Are these posters doing it because they *hate* Kobe? Do they hate Magic and Bird too? Who the hell hates Magic and Bird?

Are you seriously incapable of understanding that some people view basketball differently to you, and therefore value different things when it comes to ranking players?

The rest of the world is composed of far more casual fans. They don't analyse or scrutinise. Their opinions are force fed by the media, which has shoved Kobe in their face for the past 18 years and ignored Duncan. Some people here analyse games and come to reasoned conclusions. I am not saying that they are right, but it is not difficult to fathom why the results here are different to the popularity contests they got on ESPN or whatever other poll.

[winwin]

kobe

[kennethgriffin]

What's the logic behind an 'agenda' for voting Duncan in the top 5? Are these posters doing it because they *hate* Kobe? Do they hate Magic and Bird too? Who the hell hates Magic and Bird?

Are you seriously incapable of understanding that some people view basketball differently to you, and therefore value different things when it comes to ranking players?

The rest of the world is composed of far more casual fans. They don't analyse or scrutinise. Their opinions are force fed by the media, which has shoved Kobe in their face for the past 18 years and ignored Duncan. Some people here analyse games and come to reasoned conclusions. I am not saying that they are right, but it is not difficult to fathom why the results here are different to the popularity contests they got on ESPN or whatever other poll.


I lost all respect for ISH posters today


Duncan is voted 9th all time everywhere else

magic is voted 2nd all time everywhere else


we as a collective inteligence just switched 8 spots worth of distance between 2 players. thats how f*cking dumb we all are


ladies and gentleman. ISH is now classified as RETARDED

thanks guys.. now i'm part of the worst forum on the internet

would be like being part of an nfl message board that had barry sanders ranked behind terrel davis



yall just put tim duncan ahead of MAGIC JOHNSON



the guy who was outperformed by kawhi leonard, tony parker and manu ginobili in 3 separate nba finals

is better than

the greatest playmaker in nba history that was 6 foot 9 and could drop 20ppg while averaging 12 assists at the same time for his career. hitting up 9 nba finals in just 13 years. only losing 4 of them because he ran into the 80's celtics, 80's sixers, 80's pistons, 90's bulls

if duncan faced those teams he has 0 rings


get the f*ck outa here ISH

spite kobe all you want. but leave magic johnson alone. we never gave that guy enough hype for you to treat him with such disrespect

:facepalm

[KyleKong]

Edit: Said Duncan but didn't see Magic Johnson on the list yet

So Johnson

[BuffaloBill]

Tim Duncan

[kurple]

One more for Duncan

[K Xerxes]

I lost all respect for ISH posters today


Duncan is voted 9th all time everywhere else

magic is voted 2nd all time everywhere else


we as a collective inteligence just switched 8 spots worth of distance between 2 players. thats how f*cking dumb we all are


ladies and gentleman. ISH is now classified as RETARDED

thanks guys.. now i'm part of the worst forum on the internet

would be like being part of an nfl message board that had barry sanders ranked behind terrel davis



yall just put tim duncan ahead of MAGIC JOHNSON



the guy who was outperformed by kawhi leonard, tony parker and manu ginobili in 3 separate nba finals

is better than

the greatest playmaker in nba history that was 6 foot 9 and could drop 20ppg while averaging 12 assists at the same time for his career. hitting up 9 nba finals in just 13 years. only losing 4 of them because he ran into the 80's celtics, 80's sixers, 80's pistons, 90's bulls

if duncan faced those teams he has 0 rings


get the f*ck outa here ISH

spite kobe all you want. but leave magic johnson alone. we never gave that guy enough hype for you to treat him with such disrespect

:facepalm

Sounds like you should leave this forum.

[Cold soul]

Kobe.

[Prometheus]

Yo kennethgriffin, if it makes it any easier for you to leave ISH, I personally wouldn't miss you at all. Just food for thought.

[USABall]

Don't make it seem like Duncan has no case to be argued against Magic.

[jcsrplumply]

Bird

[ekosky]

Larry Legend

[Done_And_Done]

Put me down for Timmy just to spite the cry baby over here...

[jcsrplumply]

Bird

[Brizzly]

Raymond Felton

[TheMilkyBarKid]

Larry Legend for me.
No disrespect to magic, shaq or Duncan.

[TheMilkyBarKid]

you think half the people on this forum post their opinion and arent just ****in with the other side. everythings agenda driven

if i started a thread "whos better bruce bowen or kobe bryant"


kobe might win the vote. but 10 guys will vote for bowen before the thread gets locked


so why bother even having votes if ISH is so drastically off when it comes to our votes vs the rest of the world


we're so god damn stupid as a collective opinion.

:facepalm


a real top 10 list doesnt have tim duncan ahead of magic johnson and larry bird


only on ISH

the only guy who comes close to a guy like magic is kobe from this era

and the only reason why people voted duncan was out of spite because other people voted for kobe
I hope you're not being serious right now.
You are entitled to your opinion just like everyone else. I don't get pissy when people come out with what I view as ignorant shit though, you got no control over that.

I also see you cited a few lists, isn't that just another individuals/groups opinion? Taking that for gospel makes you come across as a sheep who would believe anything they read in a newspaper/magazine/online. The world already has enough of those morons, don't reproduce son.

[HomieWeMajor]

Magic Johnson

[jcsrplumply]

Bird

[T_L_P]

Can we just end this now? There's a ****ing poster on here voting three times on the same page. :facepalm

[colts19]

larry bird

[To4]

Bird

[Round Mound]

Shaq

[BuffaloBill]

Bird

[BuffaloBill]

Bird

[BuffaloBill]

Bean

[moe94]

lmfao @ Kenneth melting down over some silly ranking by a fraction of an internet message board

Used to think he was a troll. I guess he's really just some delusional loon.

[played0ut]

Patty Mills

[Prometheus]

lmfao @ Kenneth melting down over some silly ranking by a fraction of an internet message board

Used to think he was a troll. I guess he's really just some delusional loon.

word :oldlol: I can't believe he's that salty about it. hilarious

[LAZERUSS]

Hard to believe that the greatest "winner" in NBA history, Magic Johnson, is just an after-thought here. And before someone jumps in and claims that he won because of Kareem, he had a higher career winning percentage without him.

That is not a knock on Kareem, but I would ask the rational fans here...who would take in a draft... A '70-79 Kareem, or an '80-89 KAJ?

[JohnFreeman]

Duncan

[joeyjoejoe]

Duncan

[Spaulding]

Magic Johnson

http://www.bet.com/news/health/photos/2013/02/10-myths-about-aids-in-black-america/_jcr_content/leftcol/flipbook/flipbookimage_2.flipfeature.dimg/071012-health-aids-hiv-magic-johnson-ENDGAME-AIDS-in-Black-America.jpg

[dreamwarrior]

Magic Johnson

[Inferno]

This is why ISH can't have nice things :lol

[bballnoob1192]

im quite astonish at the disrespect magic is getting. duncan is benefitting so much from wooping lebron's ass this year it's crazy.

[zoom17]

lmfao @ Kenneth melting down over some silly ranking by a fraction of an internet message board

Used to think he was a troll. I guess he's really just some delusional loon.

:roll:

[zoom17]

change my vote for Magic.

[bballnoob1192]

people use to have duncan generally at 7th, but one final can change so much. lebron would prolly make this list if he had won and three peated. duncan won this year and leapfrogged magic.

[PistonsFan#21]

Kobe Bryant.

And how can anyone realistically put Snaq ahead of Kobe? He has one more finals MVP, that's it. Kobe has the accolades, more titles, greater longevity, etc.

How does Kobe have greater longetivity? His career is basically done at 35 years old.

[jcsrplumply]

change my vote for Bird

[sick_brah07]

michael carter williams

[305Baller]

Magic Johnson

[sick_brah07]

kenneth lost his shit

[Wavves]

:oldlol: Kenneth's meltdown may just be one of the best things I have ever read on ISH

[stalkerforlife]

Kenneth is passionate, just like Kobe. Underrated, just like Kobe.

He has that special something, just like Kobe.

[russwest0]

I will count the votes in a little bit. Will decide whether to post the next thread tonight or tommorrow after I do so. Regardless I'll announce the votes as soon as I have them counted.

The reason I hold off on counting until we get a lot is so people don't try to vote based on what the votes already are, in case anyone was curious :cheers:

[stalkerforlife]

I will count the votes in a little bit. Will decide whether to post the next thread tonight or tommorrow after I do so. Regardless I'll announce the votes as soon as I have them counted.

The reason I hold off on counting until we get a lot is so people don't try to vote based on what the votes already are, in case anyone was curious :cheers:

If you do it tonight and i'm not here, just make my pick Kobe.

Thanks.

[russwest0]

If you do it tonight and i'm not here, just make my pick Kobe.

Thanks.

Will do :cheers:

[Magic731]

Magic Johnson

[the mesiah]

I will count the votes in a little bit. Will decide whether to post the next thread tonight or tommorrow after I do so. Regardless I'll announce the votes as soon as I have them counted.

The reason I hold off on counting until we get a lot is so people don't try to vote based on what the votes already are, in case anyone was curious :cheers:
Mite as well do #6 tomoro in the am, most of these posters have only watched ball after 2003 It seems and born In mid to late 90's maybe possibly born in early 90's at the earliest..:facepalm :facepalm

[GODbe]

List is already as bad as RealGM's. Was scratching my head after the votings for #1 all time and not seeing Kobe at the top of the list. But now here we are, 5 spots in and still no Kobe? It's getting ridiculous.:facepalm

[TheMilkyBarKid]

List is already as bad as RealGM's. Was scratching my head after the votings for #1 all time and not seeing Kobe at the top of the list. But now here we are, 5 spots in and still no Kobe? It's getting ridiculous.:facepalm
Your disrespect towards other, more deserving legends is disgusting.

[rmt]

the guy who was outperformed by kawhi leonard, tony parker and manu ginobili in 3 separate nba finals


I have no problem saying Leonard outperformed everyone and thoroughly deserved the FMVP in 2014 but

2013 Finals

Duncan 18.9 pts / 12.1 rebs / 1.4 assts / 1.4 blks 49%
Parker 15.7 pts / 6.4 assts 41.2%
Leonard 14.6 pts / 11.1 rebs / 0.9 assts / 2.0 stls 51.3%
Manu 11.6 pts / 4.3 assts 43.3%

2007 Finals

Duncan 18.3 pts / 11.5 rebs / 3.8 assts / 1.3 stls / 2.3 blks
Parker 24.5 pts / 3.3 assts / 0.8 stls

Parker obviously took advantage offensively of a hobbled Eric Snow and rookie Daniel Gibson. This series was won when Lebron was denied the paint by Duncan, couldn't drive and had to put up jumpers over a contesting Bowen. There's that other half of the game that posters conveniently forget.

If not for the mess-up by the Spurs in game 6, Duncan would have another FMVP.

[rmt]

people use to have duncan generally at 7th, but one final can change so much. lebron would prolly make this list if he had won and three peated. duncan won this year and leapfrogged magic.

Don't think it's just 14 Finals but his performance all year in 2013 - regular season (all-nba 1st team/all-star), playoffs and Finals (see his stats above). He had a fine regular season and playoff run in 2014. This past 2 years have been a real renaissance for him.

[toxicxr6]

Gotta be Duncan for me!!
Timmy D!!

[russwest0]

Duncan won in a landslide.

[T_L_P]

Duncan won in a landslide.

I'm sure he's honoured. :cheers:

[plowking]

Kobe Bryant.

And how can anyone realistically put Snaq ahead of Kobe? He has one more finals MVP, that's it. Kobe has the accolades, more titles, greater longevity, etc.

Shaq played 19 seasons. A lot of them being good to great.

In what way does he have better longevity? They have the same number of all NBA teams.

[bballnoob1192]

Don't think it's just 14 Finals but his performance all year in 2013 - regular season (all-nba 1st team/all-star), playoffs and Finals (see his stats above). He had a fine regular season and playoff run in 2014. This past 2 years have been a real renaissance for him.
all of what you said is true, but at the end of the day you have to admit that if he had lost again this year no one would put him in the top 5. He might have even fallen a little bit down the list, and lebron would've definitely been in the top 10. On ISH and in basketball world in general it's always about how recently have you won.

[stalkerforlife]

Shaq played 19 seasons. A lot of them being good to great.

In what way does he have better longevity? They have the same number of all NBA teams.

Do we really need to go over how many games Shaq has missed in his career? I mean, we can. However, it's kind of pointless.

And Kobe has the most ever FIRST team ALL-NBA selections.

[played0ut]

Shaq played 19 seasons. A lot of them being good to great.

In what way does he have better longevity? They have the same number of all NBA teams.

Shaq had better peak and a much more noticeable impact but:

>He cruises by on his physical gifts.
>I don't like how he has no work ethic (after winning his first ring he told a teammate that he'll come back at 400 lbs. He wasn't far off -_-).
>He was 'the man' for half his career or less. Kobe's been the leader and face of the Lakers for a decade now.
>Kobe has another ring :confusedshrug:



all of what you said is true, but at the end of the day you have to admit that if he had lost again this year no one would put him in the top 5. He might have even fallen a little bit down the list, and lebron would've definitely been in the top 10. On ISH and in basketball world in general it's always about how recently have you won.

Lol you know how hard it is to even win 'one' ring?

Anyway if he didn't win i would've put him at 7th. Underneath Magic and Kobe (both of whom he's above now).

[LBJFTW]

Duncan and it's not even close.

No point in me voting since these top 5 are exactly my top 5, in order.:lol

[rmt]

all of what you said is true, but at the end of the day you have to admit that if he had lost again this year no one would put him in the top 5. He might have even fallen a little bit down the list, and lebron would've definitely been in the top 10. On ISH and in basketball world in general it's always about how recently have you won.

If Spurs hadn't messed up in game 6, Duncan could have 6 rings and 4 FMVPs - enough to garner top 3-4. And Lebron would only have 1 ring and 1 FMVP. Lebron stans should eternally thank the Spurs for messing up and Ray for that shot.

I don't get your "if he had lost again this year" (Finals & POR weren't close, game 7 vs DAL was a blowout, I guess OKC game 6 was close). Spurs won 12 playoff games by 15+ points - pretty dominant run to me.

[T_L_P]

If Spurs hadn't messed up in game 6, Duncan could have 6 rings and 4 FMVPs - enough to garner top 3-4. And Lebron would only have 1 ring and 1 FMVP. Lebron stans should eternally thank the Spurs for messing up and Ray for that shot.

I don't get your "if he had lost again this year" (Finals & POR weren't close, game 7 vs DAL was a blowout, I guess OKC game 6 was close). Spurs won 12 playoff games by 15+ points - pretty dominant run to me.

Agreed with your previous comment above.

Duncan looked done after 2011, but he's had three very good bounceback years, which includes a trip to the Finals and a ring -- both as the best player on his team (or a very, very close second). His longevity went from very good to legendary (the only greats who have better longevity are Kareem and Malone). Averaging 17/10 and leading your team in minutes from ages 35 to 38 can do something for your legacy.

[That_Admiral]

larry bird

[bballnoob1192]

i still don't see how duncan leapfrogged magic besides him winning this year. i guess i'll save this thread and bump it later when another ish list gets voted on and see.

[played0ut]

i still don't see how duncan leapfrogged magic besides him winning this year. i guess i'll save this thread and bump it later when another ish list gets voted on and see.

Besides comparable major accolades, Duncan's career long All-Defensive teams.


Basketball is a two way game. That makes the difference.

[miles berg]

Larry Bird

[T_L_P]

Besides comparable major accolades, Duncan's career long All-Defensive teams.


Basketball is a two way game. That makes the difference.

Yep. Duncan was an elite offensive option/anchor (he was basically the entire offense of the 00-03 Spurs) and incredible defensive anchor.

Magic was a God-like offensive player, but he was very clearly below average on defense.

I personally trust the two way player more. It gives you more options for success. And, as far as the West goes, Duncan's competition was fiercer. I was astounded at the number of sub-500 teams Magic's Lakers faced, even after the first round. Of course the Finals competition isn't comparable, so it somewhat evens out.

[Milbuck]

Giannis Antetokounmpo in 15 years.

[Yankstar]

Kobe :rockon:

[qrich]

Meh, change to Larry Legend, if only due to his part i Blue Chips

[poido123]

Mr. bird

[TheMilkyBarKid]

Going off this vote it looks like #6 is going to be real close between bird and magic.

[inclinerator]

duncan 5th all time? really?

[T_L_P]

duncan 5th all time? really?

Yes. He's in that Magic/Bird/Shaq tier for sure.

[Big#50]

Duncan should be in everyone's top 3 by next season.

[TheMilkyBarKid]

Yes. He's in that Magic/Bird/Shaq tier for sure.
Agreed, although I have them in a different order personally.
Not a bad looking list so far.

[T_L_P]

Agreed, although I have them in a different order personally.
Not a bad looking list so far.

Yeah, it's all about preference with those four. Though I will say Bird's very short career stops me from seeing him at the top of that list.

I'd go Duncan/Magic/Shaq/Bird personally. Maybe even Magic first depending on the day.

[Shade8780]

Bird should win #6.

[played0ut]

5. Duncan
6. Magic/Kobe
7. Kobe/Magic
8. Shaq
9. Bird
10. Lebron
11. Hakeem


Bird's so low. :(

[russwest0]

5. Duncan
6. Magic/Kobe
7. Kobe/Magic
8. Shaq
9. Bird


Bird's so low. :(

I know it sucks man but it happens. Relative to all of the other people in consideration for this list, Bird had a pretty short NBA career.

[played0ut]

I know it sucks man but it happens. Relative to all of the other people in consideration for this list, Bird had a pretty short NBA career.

Elite peak, GOAT tier NBA cultural significance, near unrivalled BBIQ in NBA history imo, ruthless competitor, bum back.


Just wait 5-10 more years when probably Lebron and possibly Durant start realistically wedging their way in. :oldlol: :oldlol:



























:(

[russwest0]

Elite peak, GOAT tier NBA cultural significance, near unrivalled BBIQ in NBA history imo, ruthless competitor, bum back.


Just wait 5-10 more years when probably Lebron and possibly Durant start realistically wedging their way in. :oldlol: :oldlol:



























:(

Believe me bro, you're preaching to the choir. I have Bird as 5th all time.

MJ
Russell
Duncan/Kobe
Bird

[played0ut]

With his impact i'd put him much higher up too almost over everyone. but it's my realistic GOAT list i need to factor in accolades and longevity

[Y2ktors]

Duncan over Magic Johnson?????????

That's a ****ing joke.

[Y2ktors]

im quite astonish at the disrespect magic is getting. duncan is benefitting so much from wooping lebron's ass this year it's crazy.
It's beyond crazy. It's stupid.

[T_L_P]

It's beyond crazy. It's stupid.

Duncan won the same amount with unquestionably less help against arguably stiffer competition.

I find it odd, but it's not at all crazy. Magic faced like a handful of 38 win teams, need I remind you.

[russwest0]

Duncan won the same amount with unquestionably less help against arguably stiffer competition.

I find it odd, but it's not at all crazy. Magic faced like a handful of 38 win teams, need I remind you.

Lol this.

Magic played with the guy who came in at 2nd on this list in one of the weakest conferences ever...

[Y2ktors]

Lol this.

Magic played with the guy who came in at 2nd on this list in one of the weakest conferences ever...

5 rings in 8 years the toughest era of basketball trumps 5 rings in 17 years in a weaker era. Throw in 6 total MVPS from 80-90 and that discussion is in Magic's favor.

Duncan beats Magic defensively. No doubt. Offensively, Magic beats Duncan. So this isn't the issue.

The IMPACT that Magic had on the game DWARFS what Duncan did and it's not even debatable.

[Y2ktors]

Duncan won the same amount with unquestionably less help against arguably stiffer competition.

I find it odd, but it's not at all crazy. Magic faced like a handful of 38 win teams, need I remind you.
Need I remind u that Duncan lost to lower seeds six times, including a #8 seed? Need I remind u that Duncan faced far inferior competition in the Finals?

[T_L_P]

Need I remind u that Duncan lost to lower seeds six times, including a #8 seed? Need I remind u that Duncan faced far inferior competition in the Finals?


Ah, of course. When it's Magic winning you mention how few years it took.

Didn't mention that he lost to the lower seed like 4 times in just 11 years though? Oh, and the win difference between the Spurs and Grizzlies was 15. Then win difference between the 81 Lakers and the 81 Rockets is 14. Not much of a difference at all?

Like I said, I'm surprised Duncan got ahead of Magic. But it's not at all ludicrous, which is what you said. You made your point for Magic, fine. But you did nothing to show any "ridiculous" gap. Just that he won the titles in less years against better Finalists. Duncan won the exact same amount against better Western teams, and you have to go through three of those (in Magic's early years, two) before you meet the Eastern team. The whole point about Magic doing it in 8 years is moot. If Jordan 3-Peated in his first three years and then died would that make him better than some other player winning 3 rings in 20 years? Of course not, because the second player gives you an extra 17 years to potentially win. It's a little concept called longevity, which is exactly why Kareem is so greatly regarded.

When you boil it down, Duncan won the same with less help against better competition. That alone puts him in the Magic tier.

[Y2ktors]

Ah, of course. When it's Magic winning you mention how few years it took.

Didn't mention that he lost to the lower seed like 4 times in just 11 years though? Oh, and the win difference between the Spurs and Grizzlies was 15. Then win difference between the 81 Lakers and the 81 Rockets is 14. Not much of a difference at all?

Like I said, I'm surprised Duncan got ahead of Magic. But it's not at all ludicrous, which is what you said. You made your point for Magic, fine. But you did nothing to show any "ridiculous" gap. Just that he won the titles in less years against better Finalists. Duncan won the exact same amount against better Western teams, and you have to go through three of those (in Magic's early years, two) before you meet the Eastern team. The whole point about Magic doing it in 8 years is moot. If Jordan 3-Peated in his first three years and then died would that make him better than some other player winning 3 rings in 20 years? Of course not, because the second player gives you an extra 17 years to potentially win. It's a little concept called longevity, which is exactly why Kareem is so greatly regarded.

When you boil it down, Duncan won the same with less help against better competition. That alone puts him in the Magic tier.

Better competition my butt. Stop trying to compare Magic's competition across the board as if all of them were like 1987. True he did face, at times, lesser competition in his conference but NEVER as bad in the Finals like Duncan in 99, 03 and 07.

Don't even compare peaks.

The point on shorter playoff series until 1984 is rather minute seeing that it was only 4 years but you can have it.

To diss the guy who had a immense, everlasting impact on the NBA in his short time from 79-91 over Duncan, who's had an excellent career in his own right, but had no where near the same impact on the game, is just like I said: a ****ing joke.


*While disgusted, I do understand that these lists are all subjective.