ISH All-Time List: Vote on #7 Now.

[russwest0]

http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/article/media_slots/photos/001/017/922/LarryRed1986a_original.jpg

The results are in from the previous vote and Larry Bird was voted as the 6th best player of all time (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=349328).

Current ISH All-Time List:
1. Michael Jordan - SG (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=348939).
2. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar - C (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=348961).
3. Bill Russell - C (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=349040).
4. Wilt Chamberlain - C (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=349136).
5. Tim Duncan - PF/C (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=349216).
6. Larry Bird - SF (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=349328).

To vote on who you think the 7th best player of all time is, simply comment their name below and I will keep track of the votes in the post directly below this one. Once a consensus is reached (after 30 total votes or one day) we will add that player to the list and move on from there.

P.S. - **** Real GM

[russwest0]

Votes:
Magic Johnson won the vote in a landslide.

[Magic731]

Magic Johnson.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Shaquille O'Neal

http://ocnnreport.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/bf97bb0349eb9a2b25efeb11b2d9.jpg

[Rodmantheman]

magic being 7th lol

[TylerOO]

Im surprised Magic isnt already up there.

Magic

[USABall]

Magic

[russwest0]

Shaquille O'Neal

http://ocnnreport.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/bf97bb0349eb9a2b25efeb11b2d9.jpg

Not loyal enough of a player for my liking.

My vote is Kobe Bryant.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

how is loyalty relevant?

[DFish24]

Magic Johnson

[russwest0]

how is loyalty relevant?

Because it's a pretty big contributing factor in legacy evaluation.

[T_L_P]

Magic

[chazzy]

Damn Timmy got a huuuuge boost on ISH in this past year.

Magic

[Rodmantheman]

my vote goes to the guy that has a gay son.




inb4 does he turn you on?

[moe94]

Because it's a pretty big contributing factor in legacy evaluation.
:facepalm

Kobe

[JohnFreeman]

magic

[DaSeba5]

Magic for the third time

[LAZERUSS]

I would like to know how Bird's career resume ranks over Magic's, Shaq's, and Lebron's.

Maybe the Bird-lovers can enlighten us on that...

[zoom17]

Magic for the third time

lol Magic.

[russwest0]

I would like to know how Bird's career resume ranks over Magic's, Shaq's, and Lebron's.

Maybe the Bird-lovers can enlighten us on that...

Magic you can make a case for, but you're losing credibility placing Shaq or LeBron over Bird.

[sick_brah07]

michael carter williams

[Fudge]

Magic Johnson

[Im so nba'd out]

michael carter williams

[the mesiah]

https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3263/2448558472_d00dc7d48c.jpg
1.Jordan
2.Magic
3.Lew
4.Larry
5.Wilt
6.Timmy

[stalkerforlife]

Kobe.

[LAZERUSS]

Magic you can make a case for, but you're losing credibility placing Shaq or LeBron over Bird.

Really? Aside from a ring, Lebron has already surpassed Bird's 12 year career in his 11. And aside from MVP voting, and everyone knows that Shaq was the best player in the league from '99 thru 05, Bird has nothing on O'Neal. Not to mention that Shaq played for 19 seasons, was a top-5 player in about 10 of them, and a top-10 player in five more. And the reality is, Shaq and Lebron were/are better post-season performers, as well as more dominant regular season players.

[stalkerforlife]

I would like to know how Bird's career resume ranks over Magic's, Shaq's, and Lebron's.

Maybe the Bird-lovers can enlighten us on that...

:biggums:

[LAZERUSS]

This from another post of mine...


If you were to compare CAREER resumes, and PEAK seasons, right now...Lebron edges Bird out. The only edge Bird has would be in rings, with a 3-2 margin. They both played in five Finals, and again, Bird has a 3-2 margin. They both have two FMVPs. Lebron actually has been a better post-season performer, too. In his 12 playoff seasons, Bird's high ppg was at 27.5 ppg, with another at 27.0 ppg. In his nine post-seasons, Lebron has had five higher than Bird's best, ranging between 28.2 ppg to 35.3 ppg, three of which were 30.3 ppg +. He also had a 27.4 ppg post-season, as well.

Lebron also has been more efficient, and has a higher career TS% and eFG%. Their apg is nearly equal (Bird with a 6.5 to 6.4 apg edge.) The only clear areas in which Bird has a statistical edge are rpg (10.3 to 8.4 rpg), and FT% (.890 to .755 .)

Lebron has already won more MVPs, 4-3, and has a higher career MVP ranking (albeit, Bird's fell off in his declining seasons.) And in terms of regular season statistical accomplishments, again, Lebron has been the better scorer (a considerably better scorer), and in the last few years his efficiency has shot thru the roof. Bird's highest FG% season was at .527. In Lebron's last three seasons he has put up .537, .565, and .567. Bird's two best eFG% marks were .555 and .556. Lebron has put up .603 and .610 in the last two seasons. Bird's two highest TS%'s were .608 and .612. Lebron has put up .640 and .649 in his last two years.

And there is no question that Lebron has been the better defensive player, either. Bird had three seasons of 2nd team all-defense. Lebron? Six first-team all-defensive selections.

Sorry, but Lebron has already passed Bird, and barring injuries, he will blow away Bird's resume by the time he hangs it up.

[zoom17]

Really? Aside from a ring, Lebron has already surpassed Bird's 13 year career in his 11. And aside from MVP voting, and everyone knows that Shaq was the best player in the league from '99 thru 05, Bird has nothing on O'Neal. Not to mention that Shaq played for 19 seasons, was a top-5 player in about 10 of them, and a top-10 player in five more. And the reality is, Shaq and Lebron were/are better post-season performers, as well as more dominant regular season players.

Plus Lebron is 29 and has at least 8+ Years to add to his resume which looks good already.

[stalkerforlife]

Shaq missed well over 300 games in his career. He was a liability down the stretch of games during the most important minutes.

Stop with the BS overrating of Shaq. GREAT peak, but piss poor longevity due to laziness and injuries, which weren't mutually exclusive.

[inclinerator]

magic kobe or shaq

[Rodmantheman]

Shaq missed well over 300 games in his career. He was a liability down the stretch of games during the most important minutes.

Stop with the BS overrating of Shaq. GREAT peak, but piss poor longevity due to laziness and injuries, which weren't mutually exclusive.

quit bitching Shaq>Kobe

[LAZERUSS]

Shaq missed well over 300 games in his career. He was a liability down the stretch of games during the most important minutes.

Stop with the BS overrating of Shaq. GREAT peak, but piss poor longevity due to laziness and injuries, which weren't mutually exclusive.

Bird's PRIME was from 79-80 thru '87-88, or NINE years.

Shaq was a Top-10 player in the league from '92-93 thru 04-05, or THIRTEEN seasons.

[lakerspng]

Magic / Kobe either would be my vote . Magic below bird is laughable though considering how much more often magic and his teams got the better of him from college through the pros. Man bird has become a little overrated. Magic and Kobe should be above bird

[stalkerforlife]

Bird's PRIME was from 79-80 thru '87-88, or NINE years.

Shaq was a Top-10 player in the league from '92-93 thru 04-05, or THIRTEEN seasons.

Larry Bird - Played all 82 games 3 times in his career. Played 70+ games 10 times in his career.

Shaq - NEVER played a full 82 game season. Played 70+ games just 6 times in 19 years.

I imagine it's easier to look good when you SIT YOUR LAZY FAT INJURED ASS ON THE BENCH for a majority of your career.

[MastaKilla]

Kobe

[LAZERUSS]

Larry Bird - Played all 82 games 3 times in his career. Played 70+ games 10 times in his career.

Shaq - NEVER played a full 82 game season. Played 70+ games just 6 times in 19 years.

I imagine it's easier to look good when you SIT YOUR LAZY FAT INJURED ASS ON THE BENCH for a majority of your career.

Let' see...

Regular season games played:

Bird= 897
Shaq= 1207


Post-season games played:

Bird= 164
Shaq= 216

[Roundball_Rock]

I will keep voting for Shaq until he is added. :lol


Shaq missed well over 300 games in his career. He was a liability down the stretch of games during the most important minutes.

Stop with the BS overrating of Shaq. GREAT peak, but piss poor longevity due to laziness and injuries, which weren't mutually exclusive.

Piss poor longevity? Shaq was a top 5 player from 1994-2005 and a top 10 player from 1993-2006. Shaq was the real MVP in his 13th season; he was a top 10 player in his 14th season; he was a legitimate all-star in his 17th season; he played 19 seasons total. Bird? 12 total seasons and even less prime seasons. Magic? 13 total seasons, one of which was a partial comeback season. Shaq's longevity clearly is superior to either of them.

[BuffaloBill]

Magic Johnson

[stalkerforlife]

Let' see...

Regular season games played:

Bird= 897
Shaq= 1207


Post-season games played:

Bird= 164
Shaq= 216

:biggums:

:facepalm

[russwest0]

Let' see...

Regular season games played:

Bird= 897
Shaq= 1207


Post-season games played:

Bird= 164
Shaq= 216

Are you saying that Bird couldn't have played in the NBA longer if he wanted to?

Bird finished his career with the team that drafted him, finishing his final season as a 20PPG scorer playing 37MPG.

Shaq went out ringchasing on his 6th team as a 9PPG scorer playing 20MPG.

[stalkerforlife]

I will keep voting for Shaq until he is added. :lol



Piss poor longevity? Shaq was a top 5 player from 1994-2005 and a top 10 player from 1993-2006. Shaq was the real MVP in his 13th season; he was a top 10 player in his 14th season; he was a legitimate all-star in his 17th season; he played 19 seasons total. Bird? 12 total seasons and even less prime seasons. Magic? 13 total seasons, one of which was a partial comeback season. Shaq's longevity clearly is superior to either of them.

If Bird wanted to sit around and miss tons of games, i'm sure he could have. He left like an ALPHA, while Shaq went from team to team ring chasing because he couldn't live with himself if Kobe finished with more rings. Well, Shaq, tell us...How does Kobe's ass taste?

Bird achieved more than Shaq in way less time.

[toxicxr6]

Magic!!

[LAZERUSS]

Are you saying that Bird couldn't have played in the NBA longer if he wanted to?

Bird went out as a 20PPG scorer playing 37MPG.

Shaq went out ringchasing as a 9PPG scorer playing 20MPG.


:roll: :roll: :roll:

Bird played 12 seasons...only NINE of which were prime seasons.

He went out an 11.3 ppg scorer in his last post-season, and the year before that, he averaged 17 ppg on a .408 FG%. He was completely DONE by his last season, and was only a shell.

How about Shaq in his 12th season?

21.5 ppg, 11.5 rpg, and a .584 FG%

And in his 12th post-season, 21.5 ppg, 13.2 rpg, .593 FG% , including a 26.6 ppg, 10.8 rpg, .631 FG% against the Pistons in the Finals.

Oh, and in Shaq's 13th season, he came in 2nd in the MVP voting.

[dreamwarrior]

magic johnson

[qrich]

I'm going with The Big Shaqtus.

[Cold soul]

Magic / Kobe either would be my vote . Magic below bird is laughable though considering how much more often magic and his teams got the better of him from college through the pros. Man bird has become a little overrated. Magic and Kobe should be above bird

Great post. I agree. My vote Kobe!

[KyleKong]

Im surprised Magic isnt already up there.

Magic

This is why top 10 lists are impossible to make

[Milbuck]

Giannis Antetokounmpo.

[ZMonkey11]

Isiah Thomas has been horribly underrated. Isiah goes here.

[russwest0]

Isiah Thomas has been horribly underrated. Isiah goes here.

Isiah above Kobe? :biggums:

[aboss4real24]

Lebron should b #7

[Cousin Oliver]

Magic Johnson

[Inferno]

Shaq

[That_Admiral]

Magic

[MJistheGOAT]

Magic Johnson.

[miles berg]

Magic

[BIZARRO]

ISH - Where Magic Johnson is down at #7. :facepalm

[TheMilkyBarKid]

Magic

[TheMilkyBarKid]

Giannis Antetokounmpo.
Hilarious! Good one Millbuck!!!! You have done it again!
:roll:
:applause:
:banana:

[houston]

kobe

[Cold soul]

I like the idea OP for top 10 GOAT list but Duncan at five above Magic is a joke and no Bird wasn't as good as Magic nor was his career accomplishments as good.

[TheMilkyBarKid]

I like the idea OP for top 10 GOAT list but Duncan at five above Magic is a joke and no Bird wasn't as good as Magic nor was his career accomplishments as good.
That's your opinion, however for the majority of their playing career Bird was generally considered better.

[joeyjoejoe]

Magic

[Natureland]

Shaq.

[Cold soul]

That's your opinion, however for the majority of their playing career Bird was generally considered better.


I'm not so sure about that. I like Bird don't me wrong but Magic got better of Bird in head to head matchups in college and the NBA. I felt Magic was the better player my opinion of course.

[(e)]

Shaq

[TheMilkyBarKid]

I'm not so sure about that. I like Bird don't me wrong but Magic got better of Bird in head to head matchups in college and the NBA. I felt Magic was the better player my opinion of course.
I would argue that Magic usually had the better team, see having the MVP (and deserving fMVP) on his team coming into the league.
If you could have the 86 Celtics against the 87 Lakers that would be one hell of a matchup though.

[rmt]

Magic

[navy]

Duncan is far too high.

Magic should be above Bird as well.
Now Shaq is gonna be low.


Im voting for Magic.

[nzahir]

Because it's a pretty big contributing factor in legacy evaluation.
:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :hammerhead: :hammerhead: :biggums: :biggums:

Has nothing to do with how good a player was.
At 7 its between shaq or magic; arguably bron or kobe.
Ill vote shaq.

Magic and shaq shouldve been higher though; wilt, bill, and td got placed too high

[russwest0]

Lol @ people bitching about this list.

Go look at the realGM one if you wanted a solid laugh. They just voted in oscar robertson at #12 over Kobe.

Pure comedy.

[KOBE143]

Kobe Magic Bryant Johnson

[TheMilkyBarKid]

Kobe Magic Bryant Johnson
We still got Magic and Shaq before we can seriously consider Kobe

[navy]

Magic
Shaq
Kobe
Hakeem/Lebron

[T_L_P]

Duncan is far too high.


Where do you think he should rank?

[bballnoob1192]

this is outrageous magic at 7????? i think this is the lowest magic has ever gone in the history of GOAT lists. Wtf is wrong with ISH. I can't come to this site until this voting is over it is killing me. Anyways here are the rest of my votes if you wanna count them. Magic,Kobe,Shaq,Lebron. In that order obviously.

[played0ut]

this is outrageous magic at 7????? i think this is the lowest magic has ever gone in the history of GOAT lists. Wtf is wrong with ISH. I can't come to this site until this voting is over it is killing me. Anyways here are the rest of my votes if you wanna count them. Magic,Kobe,Shaq,Lebron. In that order obviously.

that's.... actually also mine. :eek:

[navy]

Where do you think he should rank?
Interchangeable

Jordan
Kareem
Russell
Wilt

Magic
Bird

Shaq
Duncan
Kobe

Hakeem
Lebron

[T_L_P]

Interchangeable

Jordan
Kareem
Russell
Wilt

Magic
Bird

Shaq
Duncan
Kobe

Hakeem
Lebron


Good list imo. I'd have Duncan ahead of Bird though.

When you said he was way too high I thought you meant a good 5-6 places.

[Milbuck]

Interchangeable

Jordan
Kareem
Russell
Wilt

Magic
Bird

Shaq
Duncan
Kobe

Hakeem
Lebron
Why are Shaq, Duncan, and Kobe on an entire tier below Bird and Magic? And Lebron 2 tiers below?

[Graviton]

Bigger question is why is Wilt ranked so high with so little playoff success and accolades? We are basically giving him Top 5 for stomping the regular season vs 8 teams? :sleeping

[navy]

Good list imo. I'd have Duncan ahead of Bird though.

When you said he was way too high I thought you meant a good 5-6 places.
I suppose I could knock Bird and Magic one tier below and have them grouped with Shaq, Duncan, and Kobe.

[navy]

Why are Shaq, Duncan, and Kobe on an entire tier below Bird and Magic? And Lebron 2 tiers below?
That's just the all time tiers how I see them. Which includes a variety of factors. I think Lebron is a better player than Kobe and Bird so there is that....

[bballnoob1192]

Okay here we go:
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1795233-10-greatest-nba-players-of-all-time/page/9
Magic @ #3
http://www.nba.com/magic/cohen-8ball_ranking-top-20-players-nba-history_062413
Magic @ #1
http://sporteology.com/top-10-greatest-nba-players-time/
Magic @ #3
http://www.complex.com/sports/2013/11/best-all-around-nba-players/magic-johnson
Magic @ #1
http://www.thetoptens.com/basketball-players/
Magic @ #4
http://hoopsmanifesto.com/articles/basketball/top-10-nba-players-of-all-time-2014-update-html.html
Magic @ #2
http://blogs.rgj.com/chrismurray/2014/02/14/the-sunday-list-the-10-best-basketball-players-in-the-history-of-the-game/
Magic @ #2

I don't even agree with half of these lists or value any of their ****in views of basketball, but come ****ing on ISH how can Magic Johnson be #7 on our lists. Are we not ****ing basketball fans. Wtf is wrong with you nikkas I feel ashamed to be part of this community.

[SexSymbol]

kobe

[T_L_P]

This is my top 10:

1. Jordan
2. Kareem
3. Russell
4. Magic/Duncan
5. Duncan/Magic
6. Shaq
7. Bird
8. Hakeem
9. Kobe
10. LeBron or Wilt

LeBron will obviously get a boost when he retires though.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

I'd go something like:

1. Jordan
2. Russell
3. Abdul-Jabbar
4. Chamberlain
5. O'Neal
6. Bird
7. Johnson
8. Duncan
9. James
10. Olajuwon

[Harison]

Magic

[jcsrplumply]

Magic

[KOBE143]

This is the most accurate list
Source: http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=275265&page=10

1. MJ
2. KAJ
3. Magic
4. Russell
5. Kobe
6. Bird
7. Wilt
8. Shaq
9. Hakeem
10. TD

That was 2012 I think Duncan is now at 8.. Shaq and Hakeem fall down to 9 and 10..

[inclinerator]

johnson














joe johnson

[305Baller]

Magic Johnson

[TheMarkMadsen]

Kobe

[Big#50]

Shaq is my vote. Should be ahead of Bird.

[Heavincent]

Kobe

[JerrySeinfeld]

Kobe Bean Bryant.

[Sakkreth]

LeBron

[raprap]

Magic

[Donkey4trading]

Kobe

[L.A. Jazz]

Magic

[Smook A.]

Magic Johnson

[MP.Trey]

Earvin Johnson

[Vienceslav]

1.MJ
2.KAJ
3.Magic
4.Russell
5.Wilt
6.Bird
7.Duncan
8.Shaq
9.Kobe
10.Lebron

How hard is this?!

[Denitron]

Magic

[StephHamann]

Magic

[salwan]

Magique

[MP.Trey]

Should be a lock for Magic. Shaq/Kobe should be 8/9 and Hakeem should be 10. HM to Oscar, LeBron & West.

[TheMilkyBarKid]

Should be a lock for Magic. Shaq/Kobe should be 8/9 and Hakeem should be 10. HM to Oscar, LeBron & West.
No honourable mention for Dr J?

[havoc33]

I disagree with Duncan being 5th. That being said, it can be argued that Bird, Kobe, Magic, Duncan are all interchangeable in the spots 5-8. Their careers and achievements are so similar that arguments can be made for either one of them. And they all should be ranked higher than Shaq. People seriously need to stop overrating Shaq, it's getting real annoying.

My vote for 7th goes to Magic.

[MP.Trey]

No honourable mention for Dr J?
Yeah I guess so. Dr. J's a tough one to rank, you need to decide how seriously you take his ABA accomplishments and stick to that stance one way or the other and decide how much you rank pure accomplishments/championships to peak play and/or lasting cultural significance. I personally don't think Julius is on the same tier as LeBron, Oscar, West but wouldn't necessarily have a problem with someone putting him there.

[K Xerxes]

Shaq.

Don't know why people are bitching, this is a pretty reasonable list so far. Not everyone one will agree on each placement. You guys need to learn to see other viewpoints.

[SHAQisGOAT]

Magic Johnson

I don't have a BIG problem with Wilt and Duncan at 4/5 but imho they're too high. Duncan just recently came off another title, expected hype to be bigger, though. Shaq's gonna end up 8th, too low.

[Graviton]

Lebron.

[r0drig0lac]

Magic

[smoovegittar]

Magic is L O N G overdue here...

[raprap]

Pretty good list so far. The only thing I disagree on is the placement of wilt. Should be lower.

[RR#9]

Magic

[robert_shaww]

Magico.

[Prometheus]

1. Michael Jordan
2. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
3. Bill Russell
4. Wilt Chamberlain
5. Tim Duncan
6. Larry Bird
7. Magic Johnson
8. Shaquille O'Neal
9. Kobe Bryant
10. LeBron James

This is me casting my vote for Magic, while also predicting (again) how the rest of the top ten will play out. If I'm right and Shaq gets in at #8, then the battle over #9 between Kobe and LeBron should be really ****ing fun in this god-forsaken forum.

Oh and to Laz and whoever else is bitching about Bird's resume and how it is inferior to those of Shaq, LeBron, and Magic... you're right. But it's not ALL about resume... I just honestly think Bird was a better basketball player. Sometimes skill doesn't show up in a resume.

[Im so nba'd out]

M................ichael Carter Williams

[fpliii]

Should be a lock for Magic. Shaq/Kobe should be 8/9 and Hakeem should be 10. HM to Oscar, LeBron & West.
I don't think there have been 9 better guys than Hakeem, in terms of on-the-court play.

[tmacattack33]

Magic Johnson

[Champ]

1. Michael Jordan
2. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
3. Bill Russell
4. Wilt Chamberlain
5. Tim Duncan
6. Larry Bird
7. Magic Johnson
8. Shaquille O'Neal
9. Kobe Bryant
10. LeBron James

This is me casting my vote for Magic, while also predicting (again) how the rest of the top ten will play out. If I'm right and Shaq gets in at #8, then the battle over #9 between Kobe and LeBron should be really ****ing fun in this god-forsaken forum.

Oh and to Laz and whoever else is bitching about Bird's resume and how it is inferior to those of Shaq, LeBron, and Magic... you're right. But it's not ALL about resume... I just honestly think Bird was a better basketball player. Sometimes skill doesn't show up in a resume.

This.

I agree that Bird's the best player out of that group. Some posters will give longevity more weight, though.

Laz has always been a Bird naysayer, which is fine, since I've enjoyed my debates with him on the subject.

[ralph_i_el]

Magic


No Kobe in the top 10:oldlol: keep the chucker out

[Champ]

Bird's PRIME was from 79-80 thru '87-88, or NINE years.

Shaq was a Top-10 player in the league from '92-93 thru 04-05, or THIRTEEN seasons.

That nine year run of Bird's, though, is one of the greatest in NBA history. He had a really long, sustained peak, even though his career was relatively short.

Too bad he didn't come out of college sooner.

[Champ]

Magic has to get this spot, even though I think both him and Bird are ranked too low. Two of the most dynamic and transformative players in history should both be in the top five, IMO.

I love Duncan and what he's brought to the modern game, but can't help think his high ranking is largely due to a carryover from this years Finals.

[longhornfan1234]

Magic

[SHAQisGOAT]

Magic has to get this spot, even though I think both him and Bird are ranked too low. Two of the most dynamic and transformative players in history should both be in the top five, IMO.

I love Duncan and what he's brought to the modern game, but can't help think his high ranking is largely due to a carryover from this years Finals.

Agreed.

[Lebronxrings]

lebron james

[MP.Trey]

I don't think there have been 9 better guys than Hakeem, in terms of on-the-court play.
Me either. But I do believe there is more than 9 guys with greater careers in terms of accomplishments, longevity, etc.

If we are talking who to start a franchise with, MJ, Kareem, Hakeem & Shaq would all basically be ties for me, but there's a lot more to consider when it comes to a GOAT list.

[K Xerxes]

I don't think there have been 9 better guys than Hakeem, in terms of on-the-court play.

I don't think there have been 7 guys (at most) better than Hakeem in terms of on court impact. But most poeple base a large proportion of their rankings on career accomplishments, which Hakeem ranks last in out of the consensus top 11.

[Spaulding]

Im surprised Magic isnt already up there.

Magic

Ya trolls got Duncan his spot. I refuse to help this list anymore after that.

[Y2ktors]

I don't think there have been 9 better guys than Hakeem, in terms of on-the-court play.

Agreed. But eventually winning does matter and he only won 2 rings in 3 attempts. I personally have him at #7 on my list.

[Y2ktors]

:applause:
Ya trolls got Duncan his spot. I refuse to help this list anymore after that.

It's a disgrace, isn't it?

[Iceman#44]

magic

[RRR3]

Snack O'Meal


er....I mean, Shaquille O'Neal

[Y2ktors]

Magic has to get this spot, even though I think both him and Bird are ranked too low. Two of the most dynamic and transformative players in history should both be in the top five, IMO.

I love Duncan and what he's brought to the modern game, but can't help think his high ranking is largely due to a carryover from this years Finals.

And a ton of trolling.

[pegasus]

Kobe.

[Dbrog]

Got to be Magic here. Really can't understand how Larry got higher rank than him.

[Spaulding]

:applause:

It's a disgrace, isn't it?

Pretty much. I bet Duncan would agree Magic would be ahead of him on a list.

[WillC]

Magic Johnson

[Shade8780]

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_kztre2kq1v1qa2ol0o1_500.jpg

[Mass Debator]

Magic should've been 5th at the lowest.

[DMAVS41]

magic

[KBaller33]

Duncan fuked up this list.

[NuggetsFan]

Magic. Wanted to go Shaq but I feel like 8 would be really low for Magic.

[TheMarkMadsen]

Kobe

[DirtBag]

magic

[BuffaloBill]

Snack O'Meal


er....I mean, Shaquille O'Neal



:biggums:

[colts19]

magic

[Angel Face]

Tim Duncan ahead of Magic, Magic at 7 :oldlol:

I'll vote Magic... He should be at top 5, realistically.

[Yankstar]

Kobe Bryant

[MrC1991]

Magic.

[Pearleojam]

Magic

[stalkerforlife]

Kobe.

By my count, Kobe's lead is insurmountable. He's #7.

Onto #8.

[ralph_i_el]

magic

[Orlando Magic]

Kobe.

By my count, Kobe's lead is insurmountable. He's #7.

Onto #8.


Actually, he's at least 40 votes down. Magic wins. Shaq wins next round.

Then LeBron... then Kobe, maybe.

You mad?

[Fiddlesticks]

LeBron James

[stalkerforlife]

Actually, he's at least 40 votes down. Magic wins. Shaq wins next round.

Then LeBron... then Kobe, maybe.

You mad?

Nope. I know a lot of people let their hate get in the way of logical thinking.

If anything, I laugh about it.

[kurple]

Magic

[Big#50]

Magic was in the most stacked team ever. Weakest conference ever. Big name but not top 5.
DEFENSE is a big ass part of the game.
Magic is number 9 or 10 on my list.

[Yankstar]

Kobe

[Young X]

nhosnoJ cigaM

Should be top 5. Bird shouldn't be ranked ahead of him he has less rings, less MVP's, and less consistency in the playoffs. Duncan shouldn't be ahead of him either.

[played0ut]

Did I vote yet? Magic.

[MastaKilla]

Kobe.

[Yankstar]

Kobe.

This :applause:

[Good Ol JR]

That's gotta be Kobe by gawd that's gotta be Kobe.

[Smoke117]

No official list will ever be made from you starting it russwest, so stop wasting your time. You are too much of an idiot for anyone to take seriously.

[TheMilkyBarKid]

That's gotta be Kobe by gawd that's gotta be Kobe.
Good gimmick, I expect big things from you.

[IMObjective]

nhosnoJ cigaM

Should be top 5. Bird shouldn't be ranked ahead of him he has less rings, less MVP's, and less consistency in the playoffs. Duncan shouldn't be ahead of him either.
Larry has a power that none of the other guys in the top 20 (maybe 30) have. White power. EDIT: forgot about Dirk. Top 10 only.

#7 is obviously going to be magic, so magic at number 7. What a shame. :facepalm Maybe ish isn't as hardcore as I thought. This is where I come to get educated about basketball, STEP IT UP ISH.

[Y2ktors]

Magic

[Detroit]

Magic

[RRR3]

Magic clearly won here. Next thread? :confusedshrug:

[Prometheus]

OP butthurt that Kobe still hasn't secured a spot on this list and so he's giving up.

[LAZERUSS]

This.

I agree that Bird's the best player out of that group. Some posters will give longevity more weight, though.

Laz has always been a Bird naysayer, which is fine, since I've enjoyed my debates with him on the subject.

The reality is, Bird is over-rated here. He had a brilliant run from '83-84 thru '87-88, but even at his peak, he only had two really outstanding post-seasons (by his standards of course), with two merely good, and even one below average run.

I have posted Colts18's excellent analysis on Bird's post-season career, and I'm sorry, it was nowhere near as great as the Bird-lovers would have other's here believe. He had multiple choke jobs, and his team's often under-performed.

Having said that, his resume is that of a borderline Top-10 player, which is still an impressive accomplishment. I just don't see him having any case at all over Wilt, MJ, Russell, Magic, and Kareem. And not much of a case over Shaq, Duncan, or Lebron. He and Kobe are fighting for the 9-10 slots, and if you include Doc's ABA years, he may have an argument to at least be considered on that level, too.

And again, Bird had a strong five year peak, but overall, he had a relatively short prime of nine years. And players like Wilt, MJ, Russell, Magic, Kareem, Duncan, and Shaq all had equal peaks, if not moreso, and longer primes. And Lebron has already equalled, or surpassed Bird in nearly every major category, including peaks and primes.

[houston]

bird overrated I heard it all:oldlol:

[kennethgriffin]

OP butthurt that Kobe still hasn't secured a spot on this list and so he's giving up.

tim duncan being ahead of magic and bird pretty much ruins the list


forget kobe




































does magic johnson/larry bird lose finals mvp's any year of their life to tony parker or kawhi leonard?

[BasedTom]

Magic

[Yankstar]

Kobe :bowdown:

[DMV2]

Magic

[kennethgriffin]

tim duncan...............currently ranks ahead of

- Magic Johnson
- Larry Bird
- Shaquille O'neal
- Kobe Bryant
- Hakeem Olajuwon
and
- even Lebron James

all time on insidehoops.com/forum



now let me ask everyone this right now

does magic johnson lose finals mvp to tony parker or kawhi leonard?

does larry bird lose finals mvp to tony parker or kawhi leonard?

does shaquille oneal lose finals mvp to tony parker or kawhi leonard?

does kobe bryant lose finals mvp to tony parker or kawhi leonard?

does hakeem olajuwon lose finals mvp to tony parker or kawhi leonard?

and seriously... does even lebron james lose finals mvp to tony parker or kawhi leonard?



do any of them even get outperformed by many ginobili like ( you know who ) was in the 2005 finals when he dropped 20ppg on 60%




lets be honest guys. duncan is a really reeeeeeeeeallly great player. i'd say top 10. but not top 5. not in your wildest dreams inside hoops forum members


its not just about wins people... duncan wins allot. more than anyone. but its half due to popovich and all the team mates duncan has had over the years.


at some point we gotta look at the man and ask ourselves ....


" is he a better individual player than magic ****ing johnson or larry ****ing legend...?"

forget the rest.. i dont even care anymore.


yall on crack ****ing cocaine

[LAZERUSS]

tim duncan...............currently ranks ahead of

- Magic Johnson
- Larry Bird
- Shaquille O'neal
- Kobe Bryant
- Hakeem Olajuwon
and
- even Lebron James

all time on insidehoops.com/forum



now let me ask everyone this right now

does magic johnson lose finals mvp to tony parker or kawhi leonard?

does larry bird lose finals mvp to tony parker or kawhi leonard?

does shaquille oneal lose finals mvp to tony parker or kawhi leonard?

does kobe bryant lose finals mvp to tony parker or kawhi leonard?

does hakeem olajuwon lose finals mvp to tony parker or kawhi leonard?

and seriously... does even lebron james lose finals mvp to tony parker or kawhi leonard?



do any of them even get outperformed by many ginobili like ( you know who ) was in the 2005 finals when he dropped 20ppg on 60%




lets be honest guys. duncan is a really reeeeeeeeeallly great player. i'd say top 10. but not top 5. not in your wildest dreams inside hoops forum members


its not just about wins people... duncan wins allot. more than anyone. but its half due to popovich and all the team mates duncan has had over the years.


at some point we gotta look at the man and ask ourselves ....


" is he a better individual player than magic ****ing johnson or larry ****ing legend...?"

forget the rest.. i dont even care anymore.


yall on crack ****ing cocaine

I think Duncan is ranked too high here, as well. But, I would never use this argument against him.

[kennethgriffin]

I think Duncan is ranked too high here, as well. But, I would never use this argument against him.


answer the questions then


answer all of them


**** it i'm the biggest lebron hater on the forum. but not in 25 seasons would lebron from 19 years old to whatever age he finishes his career ever lose a finals mvp to kawhi ****ing leonard.. man duncan is so ****ing overrated on here it aint even funny.


lebron james is a better basketball player than duncan ever was... forget kobe. forget magic. forget bird. forget guys i like... lebron is better... jesus christ..

[LAZERUSS]

answer the questions then


answer all of them


**** it i'm the biggest lebron hater on the forum. but not in 25 seasons would lebron from 19 years old to whatever age he finishes his career ever lose a finals mvp to kawhi ****ing leonard.. man duncan is so ****ing overrated on here it aint even funny.

Well, we will have to wait and see how Lebron is playing in his 17th season, then, won't we?

[Magic731]

Russ been mia for a while now?

[Magic731]

answer the questions then


answer all of them


**** it i'm the biggest lebron hater on the forum. but not in 25 seasons would lebron from 19 years old to whatever age he finishes his career ever lose a finals mvp to kawhi ****ing leonard.. man duncan is so ****ing overrated on here it aint even funny.


lebron james is a better basketball player than duncan ever was... forget kobe. forget magic. forget bird. forget guys i like... lebron is better... jesus christ..
I agree, Duncan is ridiculously overrated. One extra ring which he didn't even win finals mvp cannot bump him up THAT much.

[kennethgriffin]

Well, we will have to wait and see how Lebron is playing in his 17th season, then, won't we?

what is that like 6 years from now? lebron will be averaging more than 15 points brah

[LAZERUSS]

what is that like 6 years from now? lebron will be averaging more than 15 points brah



Duncan also played four year of college ball.

[kennethgriffin]

Duncan also played four year of college ball.


in 2011 duncan was 34 years old. he averaged 13 points per game

you act like duncan hasnt been droppin off hard for a while now. he was slippin since 2008

and he had a few OK seasons and 1 good one since


guys like jordan and kobe at that same age drop near 30 a game.

it aint all about bein a good defensive player either. that shit dont make you climb all time lists unless your claiming DPOTY's while mailing it in offensively

[LAZERUSS]

in 2011 duncan was 34 years old. he averaged 13 points per game

you act like duncan hasnt been droppin off hard for a while now. he was slippin since 2008

and he had a few OK seasons and 1 good one since


guys like jordan and kobe at that same age drop near 30 a game.

it aint all about bein a good defensive player either. that shit dont make you climb all time lists unless your claiming DPOTY's while mailing it in offensively



I agree with some of what you posted here, and I also agree that Duncan is a couple of slots too high. But again, I wouldn't use the argument of Leonard beating out a 37 year old TD in the FMVP voting against Duncan.

[Akrazotile]

my vote goes to the guy that has a gay son.




]


Im also voting for Bosh's dad

[kennethgriffin]

I agree with some of what you posted here, and I also agree that Duncan is a couple of slots too high. But again, I wouldn't use the argument of Leonard beating out a 37 year old TD in the FMVP voting against Duncan.


what about the fact that tony parker has been leading the spurs in mvp voting for the last 5+ years

or the fact that parker won finals mvp during a year that tim duncan was absolute prime 30 years old

or the fact that ginobili outperformed duncan in the 2005 finals and very well should have been named finals mvp for averaging 20 points on 60% compared to duncans 20 points on 40% ( duncan was 28 years old )


duncans been getting outshined by 3rd rate stars for a decade now. this isnt new

the man has been coasting off this "defensive anchor" bullshit for much too long. especially considering hes never won DPOTY and his teams been beating teams with offense since tony parker took over the team

duncan has been skipping back to back games since his early 30's. his team has never skipped a beat.

hes a great player. hes a legend. but my god ISH seems to have a crush on this guy

hes never been nearly as dominant as guys like shaq or hakeem were. yet hes ranked ahead of them?

shaq and dream were 30/15 threats every night. duncan never sniffed that kind of skill level offensively.


we put duncan on some kind of bill russell type level on ISH.. we act like he averaged 25 rebounds and blocked 10 shots a game for god sake


:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

[RRR3]

Kenneth hates Duncan more than he hates LeBron :lol

But seriously Kenny does have a point. It's pretty hilarious to watch people start ranking Duncan top 5 and pretend its not because "durr he jus' won a rang doe"

[kennethgriffin]

IMO to be a top 5 player all time and average under 20 points career... you better be averaging 20 ****ing rebounds or 10+ assists

19 and 10 boards aint no top 5 player all time people. thats chris webber shit. and put chris webber on this spurs team his whole life. he grabs multiple rings too


infact chris webber averaged 21/10 career

:facepalm

[Genaro]

When Kenneth has a great point and is the voice of reason, you know that other folks must be tripping. Duncan at 5 was just ridiculous, I agree.

[RRR3]

When Kenneth has a great point and is the voice of reason, you know that other folks must be tripping. Duncan at 5 was just ridiculous, I agree.
B-b-b-but he jes' won a rang doe! Never mind that he was being guarded by Bosh, is way past his prime, and was playing against a team who essentially had one good player that series.

[T_L_P]

You know what's funny, Kenneth? If you add up their Playoff stats (PPG + RPG + APG + SPG + BPG - TOV), Duncan beats out Kobe. Of that group you've mentioned Duncan not belonging over, Bird and Magic have higher scores.

I've said I find it odd that Duncan got there ahead of Magic. But the fact still remains Magic won them with much more help against arguably weaker competition. That alone means there is an argument for him.

Bird's numbers are better than Duncan's, but Duncan's defense throughout his career means their prime impacts are comparable (comparable, not in Duncan's favour). Then you're getting an extra 6-7 years of Duncan as well. Really, Bird's injuries means everyone in the top 10 has some kind of argument against him. As far as career accolades go, Duncan clearly has the upper hand. Also, I'm not sure if you remember this or not, but Bird lost a Finals MVP to Cedric Maxwell, a career 11/5/2 player. Yeah, that guy.

The Kobe argument isn't even there for me anymore. Duncan has the better peak (almost fact for people who aren't Kobe fans), better or equal longevity, equal accomplishments (more Finals MVPs, MVPs, All-Defensive selections, less All-Stars and All-NBA selections), better numbers, better leadership and intangibles, etc etc. Kobe's argument is that he has the h2h victories (most of which with the best player in the league on his side), and he didn't ever lose a Finals MVP to Tony Parker.

But can I ask you this: what is worse between losing a Finals MVP to Tony Parker because all you care about is winning...or losing a Finals by yourself because you care too much about being "the man"? That's something you Kobe stans will never get. You haven't even had the chance to cheer for a team oriented guy, outside of Gasol. You don't get how special it is.

Also, here's the dealbreaker: Duncan was the best player on 4 championship teams. Only Russell, Jordan and Mikan have more. Kobe was the best player on 2 championship teams. Russell, Jordan, Mikan, Duncan, Magic, Kareem, Bird, Shaq have more, and Hakeem, LeBron, probably Moses (can't say I'm really versed in his career) have the same. That's like 6 names between the two, because one simply had a greater impact on the game.

Stop getting mad because people are starting to see it. You ****ing voted for Kobe at number one and you're mad that Magic hasn't made the cut yet? Are you on something?

[kennethgriffin]

You know what's funny, Kenneth? If you add up their Playoff stats (PPG + RPG + APG + SPG + BPG - TOV), Duncan beats out Kobe. Of that group you've mentioned Duncan not belonging over, Bird and Magic have higher scores.

I've said I find it odd that Duncan got there ahead of Magic. But the fact still remains Magic won them with much more help against arguably weaker competition. That alone means there is an argument for him.

Bird's numbers are better than Duncan's, but Duncan's defense throughout his career means their prime impacts are comparable (comparable, not in Duncan's favour). Then you're getting an extra 6-7 years of Duncan as well. Really, Bird's injuries means everyone in the top 10 has some kind of argument against him. As far as career accolades go, Duncan clearly has the upper hand. Also, I'm not sure if you remember this or not, but Bird lost a Finals MVP to Cedric Maxwell, a career 11/5/2 player. Yeah, that guy.

The Kobe argument isn't even there for me anymore. Duncan has the better peak (almost fact for people who aren't Kobe fans), better or equal longevity, equal accomplishments (more Finals MVPs, MVPs, All-Defensive selections, less All-Stars and All-NBA selections), better numbers, better leadership and intangibles, etc etc. Kobe's argument is that he has the h2h victories (most of which with the best player in the league on his side), and he didn't ever lose a Finals MVP to Tony Parker.

But can I ask you this: what is worse between losing a Finals MVP to Tony Parker because all you care about is winning...or losing a Finals by yourself because you care too much about being "the man"? That's something you Kobe stans will never get. You haven't even had the chance to cheer for a team oriented guy, outside of Gasol. You don't get how special it is.

Also, here's the dealbreaker: Duncan was the best player on 4 championship teams. Only Russell, Jordan and Mikan have more. Kobe was the best player on 2 championship teams. Russell, Jordan, Mikan, Duncan, Magic, Kareem, Bird, Shaq have more, and Hakeem, LeBron, probably Moses (can't say I'm really versed in his career) have the same. That's like 6 named between the two, because one simply had a greater impact on the game.

Stop getting mad because people are starting to see it. You ****ing voted for Kobe at number one and you're mad that Magic hasn't made the cut yet? Are you on something?


no

[T_L_P]

no

You really shot yourself in the foot when you tried bringing Duncan's statistics down...because they're still better than Kobe's. :oldlol:

[kennethgriffin]

You really shot yourself in the foot when you tried bringing Duncan's statistics down...because they're still better than Kobe's. :oldlol:

http://i59.tinypic.com/hvqj5t.gif

[Artillery]

When Kenneth has a great point and is the voice of reason, you know that other folks must be tripping. Duncan at 5 was just ridiculous, I agree.

Duncan has a much better case for top 5 than Kobe.

5/3/2>>>>>5/2/1

I'm not even sure Kobe deserves a top ten placing. 11-14 is more fitting for a guy that won the majority of his titles as a sidekick.

[qrich]

When Kenneth has a great point and is the voice of reason, you know that other folks must be tripping. Duncan at 5 was just ridiculous, I agree.

Less ridiculous than Kobe at #5.

[dyna]

Magic

[Yankstar]

Voting kobe

[TheMarkMadsen]

no

Griff you're on a forum that earlier today picked Dirk > Kobe by a large margin.

:roll: :roll:

[Horatio33]

Magic Johnson.

[kennethgriffin]

http://i62.tinypic.com/flapmc.png

[T_L_P]

http://i62.tinypic.com/flapmc.png

And yet you voted for Kobe in every round, which means you think he should be ahead of Magic? Do you not realise how stupid you are?

[kennethgriffin]

And yet you voted for Kobe in every round, which means you think he should be ahead of Magic? Do you not realise how stupid you are?


actually i didnt start voting till the 4th round. and i do believe the only 3 guys with a case over kobe are jordan, kareem, russell

after that i think kobes level of talent and accomplishments combined are worthy of 4th or 5th all time. him or magic johnson

but i'm extremely biased.


now take extreme bias out of the equation and you should theoretically have a medium that comes to an agreement that conforms with society at large.

but not only did ISH drop the ball on a social scale. but at a subhuman scale aswell. not even on the lowest totem pole will you find such an ignorant unthinkable injustice would take place

but it did.

out of spite for kobe or out of actual truth according to most of us here on ISH. either way the collective IQ was lowered to a point where i cannot take myself seriously on here being associated with such


have fun

[Artillery]

Griff you're on a forum that earlier today picked Dirk > Kobe by a large margin.

:roll: :roll:

Of course Dirk's ahead of Kirby. Swept that ass on the way to a title. Put Phil into permanent retirement. RAPM has him ahead too.

[305Baller]

Magic

[rmt]

Why is this thread still open? Surely it's been decided by now. Let's move on.

[IMObjective]

Of course Dirk's ahead of Kirby. Swept that ass on the way to a title. Put Phil into permanent retirement. RAPM has him ahead too.
One time. In fact, everyone was so used to seeing the Lakers rape the mavericks that not one person outside of Dallas was picking the mavs in that series. the mavs were just on a mission that year and I think Kobe was dealing with injuries.

[K Xerxes]

Why is this thread still open? Surely it's been decided by now. Let's move on.

OP probably curled up in the fetal position about how Kobe isn't top #7. Project abandoned.

[LAZERUSS]

Magic was in the most stacked team ever. Weakest conference ever. Big name but not top 5.
DEFENSE is a big ass part of the game.
Magic is number 9 or 10 on my list.

I get so tired of this MYTH that Magic's teams played in the weakest conference. How many people here know that in their 12 years in the league together, Magic's teams held a 13-11 edge in beating 50+ win teams over Bird's teams (yes, it includes the Finals)? Or that Magic's teams held a 3-1 advantage over Bird's in beating 60+ win teams (including his 90-91 season, and without Kareem)?

Or that Bird's teams were also beating patsies in their playoff runs. Bird's teams beat 41-41, 43-39, 43-39, 35-47, 36-46, 30-52, 40-42, 38-44, and 41-41 teams in his 12 years in the league with Magic. They also lost seven times with HCA, including a team with a 45-37 record, and another team that had a 51-31 record that swept Bird's team.

Bird's team LOST to the 59-23 Sixers in '80, 4-1, a team that Magic's Lakers would win in a romp, 4-2 (and won the clinching game, in Philly, without KAJ.) Bird's team lost to the 58-24 Sixers in '82, 4-3. The same team that Magic's Lakers beat handily, 4-2. How about the vaunted '83 Sixers? Bird's Celtics didn't even play them. They were getting swept in the previous round by a 51-31 Bucks team. And Bird's '88 Celtics were shellacked by the Pistons...a team that Magic's Lakers would beat 4-3.

Again, this perception that Magic's teams just cakewalked thru the playoffs, while Bird's teams were going thru grueling series against super-powers has been proven to be a MYTH.

[Cold soul]

OP probably curled up in the fetal position about how Kobe isn't top #7. Project abandoned.

This might be the case on ISH, but not in real world fans have Kobe ranked higher. In any event it's a real shame Magic voted at #7 he should be top 5.

[russwest0]

I'm trying not to over saturate this thing :confusedshrug:

Magic won the vote in a landslide. Will make the new thread now