Larry Bird in 1985: "Rookie Jordan is Better Than Me, Best Ever"

[eliteballer]

Bird spoke Tuesday evening after the world champions had vanquished the Bulls 110-106 in a visceral Stadium affair before 18,061 customers who needed their chairs only occasionally. Bird required a seat now, fighting fatigue and a bug, with a towel over his legs and a beer. He had played 42 minutes and watched Michael Jordan the other 6.

``I have never seen one player turn a team around like that,`` said Bird, snapping his fingers. ``All the Bulls have become better because of him. Orlando Woolridge will probably be an All-Star for the rest of his career. And pretty soon, this place will be packed every night, not just when the Celtics come to town. They`ll pay just to watch Jordan. Got to.``

Bird recently volunteered his vote for Jordan as the finest athlete he`d ever witnessed or opposed, mentioning the Bulls` electric rookie in the same monologue as Wayne Gretzky. After observing Jordan gyrate for 41 points, a game-high 12 rebounds and 7 assists Tuesday night, Bird was in no mood for second opinions.

``Best,`` said Bird. ``Never seen anyone like him. Unlike anyone I`ve ever seen. Phenomenal. One of a kind.``

In other words . . .

``One of a kind,`` he repeated. ``That`s what I mean about the league. With guys like him coming in from college year after year, we just can`t help but get a better image, better crowds, better TV ratings. He`s the best. Ever.``

Better than Larry Bird?

``Yup,`` said Bird. ``At his stage in his career, he`s doing more than I ever did. I couldn`t do what he did as a rookie. Heck, there was one drive tonight. He had the ball up in his right hand, then he took it down, then he brought it back up. I got a hand on it, fouled him, and he still scored. And all the while, he`s in the air. You have to play this game to know how difficult that is. You see that and figure, `Well, what the heck can you do?` ``


``Best,`` repeated Bird. ``I`d seen a little of him before and wasn`t that impressed. I mean, I thought he`d be good, but not this good. Ain`t nothing he can`t do. That`s good for this franchise, good for the league.``


``At home, and most places on the road, the buildings are full. This one will be pretty soon, too, every night because of Michael Jordan. He`s the best.``

Better than . . .

``Yup,`` said Larry Bird, coughing up a storm. The NBA shall not rest easily until this cold front passes, because for the league to be healthy, it can`t afford for its leading man to be sick.

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1985-02-07/sports/8501080020_1_bulls-larry-bird-orlando-woolridge

[jstern]

Reminds me of Bobby Knight in 1984 saying that Michael Jordan was the best basketball player that he had ever seen.

[KOBE143]

InB4 "GOAT GONNA GOAT" :lol

Bird was just being caught in the moment.. This is the same as Pippen telling people that LeBron is the best ever because of one series..

[Cali Syndicate]

InB4 "GOAT GONNA GOAT" :lol

Bird was just being caught in the moment.. This is the same as Pippen telling people that LeBron is the best ever because of one series..

Well, the next season, Bird called MJ God in disguise after his 63 point game. And that's with Bird having an incredible game himself with 37/12/5. That's coming from the best player in the NBA about the same player two years in a row. That's not being caught in the moment. He actually saw something great, and coincidentally, MJ became one off the top all-time greats.

[Rolando]

Bird the prophet. Goat BBIQ: knows what he's talking about.

[Xiengqichess]

Bird also said he wanted to return all his MVPs if Kobe had only one. He knows what's up.

[played0ut]

InB4 "GOAT GONNA GOAT" :lol

Bird was just being caught in the moment.. This is the same as Pippen telling people that LeBron is the best ever because of one series..

This face look like the face of a guy who gets 'caught in the moment'?

http://i.minus.com/idMtKUiN471XY.gif

[Bless Mathews]

Bird the prophet. Goat BBIQ: knows what he's talking about.
Word.

[jstern]

This face look like the face of a guy who gets 'caught in the moment'?

http://i.minus.com/idMtKUiN471XY.gif

Perfect use of that gif. It's like how did you have that gif handy. And it's not like he was at the opposing team's stadium, that was at Indiana.

[BoutPractice]

Greatness recognizing greatness...

Can you imagine if someone proclaimed a rookie the best ever nowadays?

[Soundwave]

Two of the best to ever do it. Larry always knew what was up.

After 86 he stayed on the Celtics' front office's ass to make sure they pushed to win as many titles as possible before the Bulls got their sh*t together and actually put a worthwhile team around Jordan. He knew what was coming.

It's too bad about Larry's back, really would've liked to have seen him play a few more years.

It's too bad Orlando Woolridge apparently had a cocaine problem and wouldn't play any defence. Jordan-Woolrdige-Oakley might've been an OK core.

[bizil]

The reason why Bird was saying that is because he saw a guy who was an epic all around player like him and Magic. That was also a lockdown kind of defender, can play PG, SG, and SF, and is a freak athlete! That kind of player had NEVER been seen before in the NBA period! Big O didn't have the defense and freak athletic ability MJ had. Dr.J, Baylor, Thompson and Hawkins weren't as great all around as MJ.

In 1985, I would still give Bird and Magic the edge slightly as the better players. They incorporated their teammates better and were actually more versatile and able to play the PF position in addition to the perimeter. But Bird knew MJ was gonna pass Magic and Bird by sooner than later. And if u pass Bird and Magic by, u are the best perimeter player of all time in terms of talent and skills. Of course it would some years later when MJ would pass them by GOAT wise.

[bizil]

Portland should taken MJ number 2 no matter what in '84. And this isn't hindsight either. As much as Bowie was injury prone in college, u gotta take MJ at number 2. Of course I have no problem with Houston taking Dream over MJ at number one. The Dream was that epic u can actually justify that move. I know many say Portland had Clyde Drexler already, but WHO CARES! U move Clyde to the SF and let MJ run SG. U could also go big backcourt often and go with MJ at PG too. Clyde was also one of the greatest passing SG's as well. MJ and Clyde together would have been epic shit!! Portland repeated the same thing with Oden when they could have had Durant! WOW!

[raprap]

Can you imagine lebron saying that? He would be crucified by ishiots with all the beta trash talk :lol


Larry bird is a humble guy and acknowledges greatness if he sees one. :applause:

[bizil]

Two of the best to ever do it. Larry always knew what was up.

After 86 he stayed on the Celtics' front office's ass to make sure they pushed to win as many titles as possible before the Bulls got their sh*t together and actually put a worthwhile team around Jordan. He knew what was coming.

It's too bad about Larry's back, really would've liked to have seen him play a few more years.

It's too bad Orlando Woolridge apparently had a cocaine problem and wouldn't play any defence. Jordan-Woolrdige-Oakley might've been an OK core.

I agree! Bird's game was built to last given his size and skillset. U simply make him a stretch PF who can also initiate offense as a point power forward type in the halfcourt. He always rebounded on the level of a PF anyway and played a ton of PF in his career anyway. That's one advantage guys like Bron, Bird, and Magic have over the guys like MJ, Kobe, West, and Big O. They move to a big man position and create a mismatch from there. It's a shame Bird and Magic had their careers cut short.

[Soundwave]

This was from 1984 the US Olympic Team (with Jordan and Ewing) versus the NBA All-Stars with Magic and Isiaih Thomas.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrjhIXKc6Xk

It looked like Jordan was already the best player on the court even then, and this is before he ever played a single NBA game.

Go to about 3:10 in to see Jordan dunk/fly over Magic.

Towards the end of the game Jordan takes over and Team USA beats the NBA All-Stars.

This game would be prophetic for his NBA career.

[russwest0]

Can you imagine lebron saying that?

Who, that "chosen1" guy? no, I can't.

[Soundwave]

Portland should taken MJ number 2 no matter what in '84. And this isn't hindsight either. As much as Bowie was injury prone in college, u gotta take MJ at number 2. Of course I have no problem with Houston taking Dream over MJ at number one. The Dream was that epic u can actually justify that move. I know many say Portland had Clyde Drexler already, but WHO CARES! U move Clyde to the SF and let MJ run SG. U could also go big backcourt often and go with MJ at PG too. Clyde was also one of the greatest passing SG's as well. MJ and Clyde together would have been epic shit!! Portland repeated the same thing with Oden when they could have had Durant! WOW!

It is pretty much the textbook example of why you always take the BPA especially with a high pick. Never draft for need that high.

Blazers threw away 6-8+ championships doing that.

Jordan + Drexler together would've been unreal I agree.

[dreamwarrior]

Being able to improvise while in the air, nobody at that time could do that and even today no player is known for that skill.

[LeBird]

Did anyone actually read the article? Bird didn't say he was the best basketball player, he said he was the best athlete - a better athlete than when he was a Rookie.

Also one has to temper these comments. At the time the league, including Bird, were in promotion mode and selling the new generation, Jordan was the new star.

In fact, the preface of the article is precisely on this very point:


Still, like many of the greatest of the great athletes, Bird is growing more aware at the glorious age of 28. The games still carry utmost importance, but so does The Game, which means the best basketball player ever to put on his short pants one leg at a time looks for more now than the open man.

``First three seasons in the league, all I worried about was the Boston Celtics,`` said Bird. ``But I realize the NBA is only as strong as its weakest link, so I`m concerned about more than us now. I still don`t wake up and check attendances around the league every morning in the paper, but I feel like the sport`s getting better all the time.

``Last year was the most competitive of the six I`ve been around. Only our second playoff series, against New York, was like a war. Great games. This year, some teams like the Knicks are down because of injuries. But if people get healthy, the second half of this season, and then the playoffs, could be the best yet. The NBA is perking up all the time.``

And...


Bird recently volunteered his vote for Jordan as the finest athlete he`d ever witnessed or opposed, mentioning the Bulls` electric rookie in the same monologue as Wayne Gretzky. After observing Jordan gyrate for 41 points, a game-high 12 rebounds and 7 assists Tuesday night, Bird was in no mood for second opinions.

``Best,`` said Bird. ``Never seen anyone like him. Unlike anyone I`ve ever seen. Phenomenal. One of a kind.``

In other words . . .

``One of a kind,`` he repeated. ``That`s what I mean about the league. With guys like him coming in from college year after year, we just can`t help but get a better image, better crowds, better TV ratings. He`s the best. Ever.``

Finally...


Still, take away four or five arenas where spiderwebs thrive, and the league`s once-sorry situation is improving. Parity is a problem; having the Boston Celtics in town is a profitable spanking.

``Like I say, it`s tough for me to really judge the league,`` Bird said.

``At home, and most places on the road, the buildings are full. This one will be pretty soon, too, every night because of Michael Jordan. He`s the best.``

Better than . . .

``Yup,`` said Larry Bird, coughing up a storm. The NBA shall not rest easily until this cold front passes, because for the league to be healthy, it can`t afford for its leading man to be sick.

So, the thrust of the article is pretty clear.

[Soundwave]

Did anyone actually read the article? Bird didn't say he was the best basketball player, he said he was the best athlete - a better athlete than when he was a Rookie.

Also one has to temper these comments. At the time the league, including Bird, were in promotion mode and selling the new generation, Jordan was the new star.

In fact, the preface of the article is precisely on this very point:



And...



Finally...



So, the thrust of the article is pretty clear.

:lol So bitter. Bird mentioned Gretzky, so I take it the term "athlete" means Jordan is the best he's seen in pretty much any sport (not just basketball).

Are you going to also say Bird comparing Jordan to God isn't a big deal because he didn't specify which god per se? Might've been one of the lower Greek gods, in other words, no big deal, right? :oldlol:

[andgar923]

This was from 1984 the US Olympic Team (with Jordan and Ewing) versus the NBA All-Stars with Magic and Isiaih Thomas.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrjhIXKc6Xk

It looked like Jordan was already the best player on the court even then, and this is before he ever played a single NBA game.

Go to about 3:10 in to see Jordan dunk/fly over Magic.

Towards the end of the game Jordan takes over and Team USA beats the NBA All-Stars.

This game would be prophetic for his NBA career.

That Olympic team would destroy any team today.

The way they moved, cut, passed, would leave teams flabbergasted.

That MJ (yes even as a rookie) would be the best player today. I mean, he's all over the place, Richard Hamilton on steroids (as far as moving without the ball). How can you defend somebody with that skill level but is constantly moving and using screens? Not only does he move well without the ball, he can create his own shot like no other player today (including Kobe).

[SHAQisGOAT]

That Olympic team would destroy any team today.

The way they moved, cut, passed, would leave teams flabbergasted.

That MJ (yes even as a rookie) would be the best player today. I mean, he's all over the place, Richard Hamilton on steroids (as far as moving without the ball). How can you defend somebody with that skill level but is constantly moving and using screens? Not only does he move well without the ball, he can create his own shot like no other player today (including Kobe).

Well said. How about Jordan and Alvin Robertson on that backcourt? Crazy amount of TO's created right there, then with young Ewing patrolling the paint.

Not to mention, he was such an athletic freak.

Magic was in great shape there, and young Ewing was really big and mobile (and skilled), people forget that when looking at post-injuries Patrick.


This was from 1984 the US Olympic Team (with Jordan and Ewing) versus the NBA All-Stars with Magic and Isiaih Thomas.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrjhIXKc6Xk

It looked like Jordan was already the best player on the court even then, and this is before he ever played a single NBA game.

Go to about 3:10 in to see Jordan dunk/fly over Magic.

Towards the end of the game Jordan takes over and Team USA beats the NBA All-Stars.

This game would be prophetic for his NBA career.

Same team vs NBA stars with Bird, Isiah, Aguirre...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a4qy1klDae4


-----> More on topic, this happened also during that game:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Rg1sFMxnbM&t=4m52s

Larry already an amazing judge of talent, trying to get every edge he could have over Jordan, from the get-go.

[Soundwave]

Well said.

Not to mention, he was such an athletic freak.

Magic was in great shape there, and young Ewing was really big and mobile (and skilled), people forget that when looking at post-injuries Patrick.

Larry Nance was a freak of nature too. 6'10 incredible athlete.

[SHAQisGOAT]

Larry Nance was a freak of nature too. 6'10 incredible athlete.

No doubt about it, look at some of those blocks.

[chocolatethunder]

Two of the best to ever do it. Larry always knew what was up.

After 86 he stayed on the Celtics' front office's ass to make sure they pushed to win as many titles as possible before the Bulls got their sh*t together and actually put a worthwhile team around Jordan. He knew what was coming.

It's too bad about Larry's back, really would've liked to have seen him play a few more years.

It's too bad Orlando Woolridge apparently had a cocaine problem and wouldn't play any defence. Jordan-Woolrdige-Oakley might've been an OK core.
Nah man foreal, Woolridge was one of the original empty stats guys. He was ripped and could score but it was all meaningless. The Bulls won after he left. He was a good scorer but he was bullshit.

[LeBird]

:lol So bitter. Bird mentioned Gretzky, so I take it the term "athlete" means Jordan is the best he's seen in pretty much any sport (not just basketball).

Are you going to also say Bird comparing Jordan to God isn't a big deal because he didn't specify which god per se? Might've been one of the lower Greek gods, in other words, no big deal, right? :oldlol:

He's referring to physical capabilities. The context is clear: Jordan was fast, strong, high flyer, etc - things he was not in his rookie year. He's talking about the progression of how athletic players are from the get-go. Similar to how this era remark about the kind of physical freak Lebron is.

Your projection just drips of desperation. Typical. :rolleyes:

[nightprowler10]

Can you imagine lebron saying that? He would be crucified by ishiots with all the beta trash talk :lol


Larry bird is a humble guy and acknowledges greatness if he sees one. :applause:
Big difference. Bird is that mother****er who told people exactly how he was going to humiliate people on the court before proceeding to do it. Him saying something like this was huge.

[juju151111]

He's referring to physical capabilities. The context is clear: Jordan was fast, strong, high flyer, etc - things he was not in his rookie year. He's talking about the progression of how athletic players are from the get-go. Similar to how this era remark about the kind of physical freak Lebron is.

Your projection just drips of desperation. Typical. :rolleyes:
What about when he said Nj didn't win because he didn't have enough help. Lol Bird knows talent when he sees it and your just bias.

[SHAQisGOAT]

Big difference. Bird is that mother****er who told people exactly how he was going to humiliate people on the court before proceeding to do it. Him saying something like this was huge.

Very true but Bird was also always very humble off-the-court, at least when it didn't come down to questions on who beats who... He once said Magic was the best player, he once said King was the best forward in the league, said Jordan played like a God, said Nique should've been MVP over him, once...... He played to his last efforts and full strengths, making everything to destroy those dudes on the court though :lol
(not taking anything away from this quote)

[Lebronxrings]

Larry Bird = beta.

Lebron>>>>>>Bird

[SHAQisGOAT]

Larry Bird = beta.

Lebron>>>>>>Bird

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9NIKK_OFvFY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUmz44FurLc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Rg1sFMxnbM
(read the descriptions too, amazing quotes lmfao)

vs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Cbt2UXgB2M
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4fSlLdXNzPw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mPzQx0jP8Yg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PyFp219Nj4Y


Go troll somewhere else :rolleyes:
:roll:

[Lebronxrings]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9NIKK_OFvFY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUmz44FurLc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Rg1sFMxnbM
(read the descriptions too, amazing quotes lmfao)

vs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Cbt2UXgB2M
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4fSlLdXNzPw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mPzQx0jP8Yg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PyFp219Nj4Y


Go troll somewhere else :rolleyes:
:roll:
says the guy who puts up vids to hype up his man, and then puts videos trying to bring down lebron. At least put fair side by side video comparisons rather then being immature like alot of people on this forum.

[3ball]

This last Finals showed that history can indeed get it right - no 3-peat for Lebron means no = MJ... so now we can look back and appreciate even more what goatness looks like.

http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/Jordan_drop_step_vs_bullets_cc366afc62cd900f934c8d f929b61549.gif

[GrapeApe]

Larry Bird = beta.

Lebron>>>>>>Bird

You call Bird beta (arguably the most alpha player ever) and the Lakers a garbage franchise (arguably the greatest franchise ever). Is LeBron also the greatest white player of all time?

[Calabis]

The reason why Bird was saying that is because he saw a guy who was an epic all around player like him and Magic. That was also a lockdown kind of defender, can play PG, SG, and SF, and is a freak athlete! That kind of player had NEVER been seen before in the NBA period! Big O didn't have the defense and freak athletic ability MJ had. Dr.J, Baylor, Thompson and Hawkins weren't as great all around as MJ.

In 1985, I would still give Bird and Magic the edge slightly as the better players. They incorporated their teammates better and were actually more versatile and able to play the PF position in addition to the perimeter. But Bird knew MJ was gonna pass Magic and Bird by sooner than later. And if u pass Bird and Magic by, u are the best perimeter player of all time in terms of talent and skills. Of course it would some years later when MJ would pass them by GOAT wise.


Great post right here...spot on

[3ball]

Larry Bird was referencing Jordan's apparent high skill level - Just one aspect of Jordan's skill was his leaping - to this day, we haven't seen a guy that had goat-level leaping ability off of both one and two legs.

Just compare Jordan's leaping to Lebron's.

Jordan jumped way higher and had better explosion off vertical which was a big advantage in traffic... Kobe is pretty good of a vertical too - and both those guys had the physique that was conducive for scoring effectively in traffic, where their vertical ability was neeeded.

In contrast, Lebron is actually only okay off a vertical and his physique is not conducive for mitigating defenders in traffic... Here's Lebron off a drop-step (one-step vertical), where he gets stuffed on a game winning attempt and the Heat lost... He didn't have good explosion.

http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/Lebron_Stuffed_after_Jumping_o_3ab12cd053656a6016f 9ea4e26ad4fa5.gif


Whereas, in the same spot, Jordan drop-steps with a lot more lift and explosion.

http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/Jordan_over_Orlando_Woolridge_2992ff3b66bec8217afc 9045864e3b42.gif


http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/Jordan_dunks_on_Defender_off_42e80f0371b2ccd1311ad dc612220fdc.gif


http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/Jordan_Very_Quick_off_his_feet_85c9460760961c1fceb 26630cff21c12.gif


http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/Jordan_dunks_on_Shaq_7a78ff0a205611c2aaf2fcf2af13f 605.gif




Here's another one where they are both doing the exact same move that ends up with them jumping off two feet, and Jordan has quite a bit more lift.

Lebron going up weak off two feet after jumpstop.. can't dunk..

http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/Tiago_Beats_Lebron_to_Spot_Leb_2d51dd9926d3c1cf8c5 bc8a47ecc0f04.gif



Jordan in Exact Same Spot, Exact Same Move and Jumpstop, Goes up A Lot Stronger

http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/Jordan_with_the_Baseline_HopSt_f3dde741dd9364e1d67 d426c26375b8c.gif


Same Spot, Also Over Dominique and Moses Malone at the Same Time
http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/jordan_on_dominique_bee66ca7d5a73e1d21472382674cc2 af.gif

http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/Jordan_over_Dominique_and_Mose_6ff5a043976a6ce3be6 3214630bd4bbc.gif

[3ball]

The last post ^^^^^^ about Jordan having goat leaping ability off of both one and two legs - this was just one aspect of the higher level of ability that Bird was talking about - to this day, we haven't seen a guy that had goat-level leaping ability off of both one and two legs like Jordan.

[SHAQisGOAT]

Great post 3ball... Some of those dunks are just too nasty :bowdown:

[played0ut]

Larry Bird = beta.

Lebron>>>>>>Bird


you're starting to get irksome. :(


i'm sorry, lebronxrings i forgot to leave my name when i negged you.

[jzek]

How can anyone not have MJ as their GOAT? Boggles the mind... :wtf:

[riseagainst]

You call Bird beta (arguably the most alpha player ever) and the Lakers a garbage franchise (arguably the greatest franchise ever). Is LeBron also the greatest white player of all time?

:roll:

[played0ut]

You call Bird beta (arguably the most alpha player ever) and the Lakers a garbage franchise (arguably the greatest franchise ever). Is LeBron also the greatest white player of all time?

:roll: :roll: :roll:

[jlip]

Premature statements like this are not unique to MJ. Jerry Sloan pretty much had Bird as GOAT (http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=lqgrAAAAIBAJ&sjid=Bv0FAAAAIBAJ&pg=6684,2938934&dq=larry+bird+best+ever+basketball+player&hl=en) during rookie season.

People were calling Kareem (Lew Alcindor) the best player in the world during his rookie season.
(http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=348&dat=19710330&id=9ZtOAAAAIBAJ&sjid=30MDAAAAIBAJ&pg=4519,4185979)

George Mikan called Bill Russell the GOAT (http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=ENUmAAAAIBAJ&sjid=owIGAAAAIBAJ&pg=2445,4482680&dq=russell+so-good-he-scares-you+mikan&hl=en) before he had even played one NBA game.

[Pointguard]

The reason why Bird was saying that is because he saw a guy who was an epic all around player like him and Magic. That was also a lockdown kind of defender, can play PG, SG, and SF, and is a freak athlete! That kind of player had NEVER been seen before in the NBA period! Big O didn't have the defense and freak athletic ability MJ had. Dr.J, Baylor, Thompson and Hawkins weren't as great all around as MJ.

In 1985, I would still give Bird and Magic the edge slightly as the better players. They incorporated their teammates better and were actually more versatile and able to play the PF position in addition to the perimeter. But Bird knew MJ was gonna pass Magic and Bird by sooner than later. And if u pass Bird and Magic by, u are the best perimeter player of all time in terms of talent and skills. Of course it would some years later when MJ would pass them by GOAT wise.
This.

Bird knew he and Magic had revolutionized the game. They were thinking, team players. Jordan wasnt going to get to that level without paying some dues. Jordan was an instinctive, one on one show who was indeed smart but had one trait that might be manipulated.

Another thing to factor in was that Bird didn't talk much at this time and he had just arrived at being the best player in the game. A guy who didn't talk much and knew the value of enmity would grant this compliment on a guy that had thought he was better than anybody already? I, immediately thought Bird was instructed by Aurabach to say this. Why?

Jordan was not a very social person. He was seeking hard to prove himself, and did things for personal aggrandizement. Aurabach had seen Kareem and Wilt not dominate the league despite being much better than all other players. Why not inflate Jordan's head to proportions where he isn't playing a team game? The longer it takes for him to get that down he won't be much of a worry. While Bird was healthy he rarely had to worry much about Jordan.

[Pointguard]

Anything that comes out of the land of Leprechauns that glitters is not always gold.

[bizil]

This.

Bird knew he and Magic had revolutionized the game. They were thinking, team players. Jordan wasnt going to get to that level without paying some dues. Jordan was an instinctive, one on one show who was indeed smart but had one trait that might be manipulated.

Another thing to factor in was that Bird didn't talk much at this time and he had just arrived at being the best player in the game. A guy who didn't talk much and knew the value of enmity would grant this compliment on a guy that had thought he was better than anybody already? I, immediately thought Bird was instructed by Aurabach to say this. Why?

Jordan was not a very social person. He was seeking hard to prove himself, and did things for personal aggrandizement. Aurabach had seen Kareem and Wilt not dominate the league despite being much better than all other players. Why not inflate Jordan's head to proportions where he isn't playing a team game? The longer it takes for him to get that down he won't be much of a worry. While Bird was healthy he rarely had to worry much about Jordan.

Awesome observation on the thinking of Red and Bird! I hadn't really thought about it from that angle. Before MJ, the only freak athletes on the perimeter that had long and legendary careers were Baylor and Dr. J. legends like Thompson and Connie had circumstances that prevented them from having truly long careers. That next wave of guys were Nique, Drexler, and MJ, who did have long legendary HOF careers. But of the group, Jordan was clearly the one who had what it took to eclipse Magic and Bird. Clyde was awesome all around but not quite on that MJ-Bird-Magic level. And Nique's thing was premier alpha dog scoring but not the total package kind of stuff.

I think Bird saw this and knew the difference would be if MJ used teammates better and relied on his technical skills-fundamentals as much as his athletic ability. In '85, MJ wasn't quite their yet. So in terms of the most gifted player in the L across the board it was MJ. But in terms of the guys who could dominate BOTH individually and made their teammates better, Bird and Magic had the edge. Once MJ combined the two better is when he truly passed Bird and Magic.

[Soundwave]

Larry Bird was referencing Jordan's apparent high skill level - Just one aspect of Jordan's skill was his leaping - to this day, we haven't seen a guy that had goat-level leaping ability off of both one and two legs.

Just compare Jordan's leaping to Lebron's.

Jordan jumped way higher and had better explosion off vertical which was a big advantage in traffic... Kobe is pretty good of a vertical too - and both those guys had the physique that was conducive for scoring effectively in traffic, where their vertical ability was neeeded.

In contrast, Lebron is actually only okay off a vertical and his physique is not conducive for mitigating defenders in traffic... Here's Lebron off a drop-step (one-step vertical), where he gets stuffed on a game winning attempt and the Heat lost... He didn't have good explosion.

http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/Lebron_Stuffed_after_Jumping_o_3ab12cd053656a6016f 9ea4e26ad4fa5.gif


Whereas, in the same spot, Jordan drop-steps with a lot more lift and explosion.

http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/Jordan_over_Orlando_Woolridge_2992ff3b66bec8217afc 9045864e3b42.gif


http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/Jordan_dunks_on_Defender_off_42e80f0371b2ccd1311ad dc612220fdc.gif


http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/Jordan_Very_Quick_off_his_feet_85c9460760961c1fceb 26630cff21c12.gif


http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/Jordan_dunks_on_Shaq_7a78ff0a205611c2aaf2fcf2af13f 605.gif




Here's another one where they are both doing the exact same move that ends up with them jumping off two feet, and Jordan has quite a bit more lift.

Lebron going up weak off two feet after jumpstop.. can't dunk..

http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/Tiago_Beats_Lebron_to_Spot_Leb_2d51dd9926d3c1cf8c5 bc8a47ecc0f04.gif



Jordan in Exact Same Spot, Exact Same Move and Jumpstop, Goes up A Lot Stronger

http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/Jordan_with_the_Baseline_HopSt_f3dde741dd9364e1d67 d426c26375b8c.gif


Same Spot, Also Over Dominique and Moses Malone at the Same Time
http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/jordan_on_dominique_bee66ca7d5a73e1d21472382674cc2 af.gif

http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/Jordan_over_Dominique_and_Mose_6ff5a043976a6ce3be6 3214630bd4bbc.gif

http://i.imgur.com/dhMeAzK.gif

Always felt LeBron's athleticism was a bit overrated. He sometimes struggles to beat average defenders off the dribble and sometimes lacks vertical lift in the half court. Good fast break dunker.

[DJ Leon Smith]

Salivating for the LeBron fans to reply to this.


Larry Bird was referencing Jordan's apparent high skill level - Just one aspect of Jordan's skill was his leaping - to this day, we haven't seen a guy that had goat-level leaping ability off of both one and two legs.

Just compare Jordan's leaping to Lebron's.

Jordan jumped way higher and had better explosion off vertical which was a big advantage in traffic... Kobe is pretty good of a vertical too - and both those guys had the physique that was conducive for scoring effectively in traffic, where their vertical ability was neeeded.

In contrast, Lebron is actually only okay off a vertical and his physique is not conducive for mitigating defenders in traffic... Here's Lebron off a drop-step (one-step vertical), where he gets stuffed on a game winning attempt and the Heat lost... He didn't have good explosion.

http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/Lebron_Stuffed_after_Jumping_o_3ab12cd053656a6016f 9ea4e26ad4fa5.gif


Whereas, in the same spot, Jordan drop-steps with a lot more lift and explosion.

http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/Jordan_over_Orlando_Woolridge_2992ff3b66bec8217afc 9045864e3b42.gif


http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/Jordan_dunks_on_Defender_off_42e80f0371b2ccd1311ad dc612220fdc.gif


http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/Jordan_Very_Quick_off_his_feet_85c9460760961c1fceb 26630cff21c12.gif


http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/Jordan_dunks_on_Shaq_7a78ff0a205611c2aaf2fcf2af13f 605.gif




Here's another one where they are both doing the exact same move that ends up with them jumping off two feet, and Jordan has quite a bit more lift.

Lebron going up weak off two feet after jumpstop.. can't dunk..

http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/Tiago_Beats_Lebron_to_Spot_Leb_2d51dd9926d3c1cf8c5 bc8a47ecc0f04.gif



Jordan in Exact Same Spot, Exact Same Move and Jumpstop, Goes up A Lot Stronger

http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/Jordan_with_the_Baseline_HopSt_f3dde741dd9364e1d67 d426c26375b8c.gif


Same Spot, Also Over Dominique and Moses Malone at the Same Time
http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/jordan_on_dominique_bee66ca7d5a73e1d21472382674cc2 af.gif

http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/Jordan_over_Dominique_and_Mose_6ff5a043976a6ce3be6 3214630bd4bbc.gif

[DonDadda59]

This face look like the face of a guy who gets 'caught in the moment'?

http://i.minus.com/idMtKUiN471XY.gif

Larry Legend not easily impressed. Knew what he was seeing. GOAT gonna GOAT. Even as a rookie #GodDisguisedAsMJ :applause:

[juju151111]

This.

Bird knew he and Magic had revolutionized the game. They were thinking, team players. Jordan wasnt going to get to that level without paying some dues. Jordan was an instinctive, one on one show who was indeed smart but had one trait that might be manipulated.

Another thing to factor in was that Bird didn't talk much at this time and he had just arrived at being the best player in the game. A guy who didn't talk much and knew the value of enmity would grant this compliment on a guy that had thought he was better than anybody already? I, immediately thought Bird was instructed by Aurabach to say this. Why?

Jordan was not a very social person. He was seeking hard to prove himself, and did things for personal aggrandizement. Aurabach had seen Kareem and Wilt not dominate the league despite being much better than all other players. Why not inflate Jordan's head to proportions where he isn't playing a team game? The longer it takes for him to get that down he won't be much of a worry. While Bird was healthy he rarely had to worry much about Jordan.
Yea cause he has a way better team.

[Pointguard]

Yea cause he has a way better team.
Yes, he did. No argument there. Even armed with a better team he knew Jordan was deadly.

[Pointguard]

Just compare Jordan's leaping to Lebron's.

Jordan jumped way higher and had better explosion off vertical which was a big advantage in traffic... Kobe is pretty good of a vertical too - and both those guys had the physique that was conducive for scoring effectively in traffic, where their vertical ability was neeeded.

In contrast, Lebron is actually only okay off a vertical and his physique is not conducive for mitigating defenders in traffic... Here's Lebron off a drop-step (one-step vertical), where he gets stuffed on a game winning attempt and the Heat lost... He didn't have good explosion.

http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/Lebron_Stuffed_after_Jumping_o_3ab12cd053656a6016f 9ea4e26ad4fa5.gif


Whereas, in the same spot, Jordan drop-steps with a lot more lift and explosion.

http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/Jordan_over_Orlando_Woolridge_2992ff3b66bec8217afc 9045864e3b42.gif


http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/Jordan_dunks_on_Defender_off_42e80f0371b2ccd1311ad dc612220fdc.gif


http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/Jordan_Very_Quick_off_his_feet_85c9460760961c1fceb 26630cff21c12.gif


http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/Jordan_dunks_on_Shaq_7a78ff0a205611c2aaf2fcf2af13f 605.gif


Here's another one where they are both doing the exact same move that ends up with them jumping off two feet, and Jordan has quite a bit more lift.

Lebron going up weak off two feet after jumpstop.. can't dunk..

http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/Tiago_Beats_Lebron_to_Spot_Leb_2d51dd9926d3c1cf8c5 bc8a47ecc0f04.gif



Jordan in Exact Same Spot, Exact Same Move and Jumpstop, Goes up A Lot Stronger

http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/Jordan_with_the_Baseline_HopSt_f3dde741dd9364e1d67 d426c26375b8c.gif


Same Spot, Also Over Dominique and Moses Malone at the Same Time
http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/jordan_on_dominique_bee66ca7d5a73e1d21472382674cc2 af.gif

http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/Jordan_over_Dominique_and_Mose_6ff5a043976a6ce3be6 3214630bd4bbc.gif

Jordan had the best last step the game ever seen/had. It was off the hook, super explosive. Definitely was something Lebron lacked - always a burger or two away from finishing strong like Jordan - but every player was. If Lebron got down to 250, I think he might have something just a steep step below Jordan's. Westbrook off of one foot was the closest we've probably seen, along with Rose/Dominique off of two feet.

[tontoz]

Another thing to factor in was that Bird didn't talk much at this time and he had just arrived at being the best player in the game. A guy who didn't talk much and knew the value of enmity would grant this compliment on a guy that had thought he was better than anybody already? .


Bird was one of the biggest trash talkers at the time.

He went up to the opposing coach once and said "you need to put someone else on me because i am killing this guy."

He would tell opposing players what he was going to do to them before he did it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6sLMupoQLQ

[Soundwave]

Jordan had the best last step the game ever seen/had. It was off the hook, super explosive. Definitely was something Lebron lacked - always a burger or two away from finishing strong like Jordan - but every player was. If Lebron got down to 250, I think he might have something just a steep step below Jordan's. Westbrook off of one foot was the closest we've probably seen, along with Rose/Dominique off of two feet.

Bron is too big/heavy yeah to ever do that (though I don't think he could do some of this stuff even at 250).

A Hummer SUV is simply not going to handle like a Lamborghini or Ferrari.

[Hey Yo]

The reason why Bird was saying that is because he saw a guy who was an epic all around player like him and Magic. That was also a lockdown kind of defender, can play PG, SG, and SF, and is a freak athlete! That kind of player had NEVER been seen before in the NBA period! Big O didn't have the defense and freak athletic ability MJ had. Dr.J, Baylor, Thompson and Hawkins weren't as great all around as MJ.

In 1985, I would still give Bird and Magic the edge slightly as the better players. They incorporated their teammates better and were actually more versatile and able to play the PF position in addition to the perimeter. But Bird knew MJ was gonna pass Magic and Bird by sooner than later. And if u pass Bird and Magic by, u are the best perimeter player of all time in terms of talent and skills. Of course it would some years later when MJ would pass them by GOAT wise.
Magic's all around game consisted on the offensive end. He was never an avg. defender let alone a great one.

[Calabis]

Yea cause he has a way better team.

Yup and other players/basketball people new this

Clyde Drexler 1987 on Jordan: ON A BLUSTERY NIGHT IN CHICAGO when Michael Jordan hits the Portland Trail Blazers with a 53-point avalanche, reporters gather around Clyde Drexler to catch his drift. And the Glide of Portland isn't shoveling bull about this Bull.

"What happened in the fourth quarter?" Someone asks.

"They started to execute their offense. In other words, Michael took over."

"Just how good is Michael?"

"MVP. He's got my vote."

OK. But what about Larry and Magic?

"If Michael had the same supporting cast as Larry Bird and Magic Johnson, he would win as often as they do. If your talking who's most valuable to his team, it's Michael."

Hubie Brown: When Michael came into the league, he came in with an explosion by averaging 28.2 points in his very first year, shooting 51.5 percent from the field, 84.5 percent from the line, and adding 6.5 rebounds and 5.9 assists a game.*So for all of the people who say that he was wasn't a complete player and didn't do everything on the court, I say to them he did do everything! In his very first year!

From the outset of his career, Michael possessed an unparalleled quickness off the dribble, and his ability to dribble with either hand and finish in the lane with an explosion separated him from the rest of the players in the league. Plus, he always backed up his drives with the high shooting percentages, so defending him was nearly impossible. You could never foul him, because he'd go to the line and make 85 percent. What they had in Chicago was this incredible diamond, but a diamond surrounded by less than a playoff-type athletes.

[Pointguard]

Bird was one of the biggest trash talkers at the time, he just didn't say much publicly. But on the court he was constantly putting down his opponents.

He went up to the opposing coach once and said "you need to put someone else on me because i am killing this guy."

He would tell opposing players what he was going to do to them before he did it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6sLMupoQLQ
Yes, I meant Bird didn't talk to the press much until he won it all. And then he opened up a little bit. That's a press comment in the OP's title. Not on the court.


Bron is too big/heavy yeah to ever do that (though I don't think he could do some of this stuff even at 250).

A Hummer SUV is simply not going to be as agile as a Lamorghini or Ferrari.
True. But Lebron had great explosion at one time. He isn't out of the conversation. He's still the only player I seen with some traffic and still nearly leap from the foul line without really thinking about it. Jordan was one of the most agile players ever so I see your point. Plus his will power was a good as it gets as well. However, Pound for pound I would consider Lebron, at least his equal. A bit more impressive, perhaps, because there were guys that look similar to Jordan in Kobe and Vince while Lebron really doesn't have that at his size. Barkley, would have burst where he could do amazing things but he wasn't leaping from foul lines.

[dankok8]

Funny that Bird saying this is the same as what Russell did to Wilt. Always praise him to the media and try to appear friendly and respectful. Everyone knows that as late as the 87-88 after which Bird was a shell Larry was outplaying Jordan in the majority of their H2H games. A part of me thinks this was all intentional by Bird. Psychological warfare at its finest!! :oldlol:

Anyways MJ wasn't clearly better than Bird until the Bird's back blew out in '88 and he wasn't clearly better than Magic until '91... In his rookie year he wasn't close. And that's not an insult you're comparing a friggin rookie to top 6 players all-time in their primes!!

[Angel Face]

Larry Bird was referencing Jordan's apparent high skill level - Just one aspect of Jordan's skill was his leaping - to this day, we haven't seen a guy that had goat-level leaping ability off of both one and two legs.

Just compare Jordan's leaping to Lebron's.

Jordan jumped way higher and had better explosion off vertical which was a big advantage in traffic... Kobe is pretty good of a vertical too - and both those guys had the physique that was conducive for scoring effectively in traffic, where their vertical ability was neeeded.

In contrast, Lebron is actually only okay off a vertical and his physique is not conducive for mitigating defenders in traffic... Here's Lebron off a drop-step (one-step vertical), where he gets stuffed on a game winning attempt and the Heat lost... He didn't have good explosion.

http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/Lebron_Stuffed_after_Jumping_o_3ab12cd053656a6016f 9ea4e26ad4fa5.gif


Whereas, in the same spot, Jordan drop-steps with a lot more lift and explosion.

http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/Jordan_over_Orlando_Woolridge_2992ff3b66bec8217afc 9045864e3b42.gif


http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/Jordan_dunks_on_Defender_off_42e80f0371b2ccd1311ad dc612220fdc.gif


http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/Jordan_Very_Quick_off_his_feet_85c9460760961c1fceb 26630cff21c12.gif


http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/Jordan_dunks_on_Shaq_7a78ff0a205611c2aaf2fcf2af13f 605.gif




Here's another one where they are both doing the exact same move that ends up with them jumping off two feet, and Jordan has quite a bit more lift.

Lebron going up weak off two feet after jumpstop.. can't dunk..

http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/Tiago_Beats_Lebron_to_Spot_Leb_2d51dd9926d3c1cf8c5 bc8a47ecc0f04.gif



Jordan in Exact Same Spot, Exact Same Move and Jumpstop, Goes up A Lot Stronger

http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/Jordan_with_the_Baseline_HopSt_f3dde741dd9364e1d67 d426c26375b8c.gif


Same Spot, Also Over Dominique and Moses Malone at the Same Time
http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/jordan_on_dominique_bee66ca7d5a73e1d21472382674cc2 af.gif

http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/Jordan_over_Dominique_and_Mose_6ff5a043976a6ce3be6 3214630bd4bbc.gif

:applause:

MJ's explosiveness >>>>> LeBron

LeBron's athleticism is overrated.

[jlip]

Funny that Bird saying this is the same as what Russell did to Wilt. Always praise him to the media and try to appear friendly and respectful. Everyone knows that as late as the 87-88 after which Bird was a shell Larry was outplaying Jordan in the majority of their H2H games. A part of me thinks this was all intentional by Bird. Psychological warfare at its finest!! :oldlol:

Anyways MJ wasn't clearly better than Bird until the Bird's back blew out in '88 and he wasn't clearly better than Magic until '91... In his rookie year he wasn't close. And that's not an insult you're comparing a friggin rookie to top 6 players all-time in their primes!!

Exactly. Statements like this about all time greats early in their careers are not exclusive to MJ whatsoever.


Premature statements like this are not unique to MJ. Jerry Sloan pretty much had Bird as GOAT (http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=lqgrAAAAIBAJ&sjid=Bv0FAAAAIBAJ&pg=6684,2938934&dq=larry+bird+best+ever+basketball+player&hl=en) during rookie season.

People were calling Kareem (Lew Alcindor) the best player in the world during his rookie season.
(http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=348&dat=19710330&id=9ZtOAAAAIBAJ&sjid=30MDAAAAIBAJ&pg=4519,4185979)

George Mikan called Bill Russell the GOAT (http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=ENUmAAAAIBAJ&sjid=owIGAAAAIBAJ&pg=2445,4482680&dq=russell+so-good-he-scares-you+mikan&hl=en) before he had even played one NBA game.

[Psileas]

Magic's all around game consisted on the offensive end. He was never an avg. defender let alone a great one.

Magic was at the very least a good team defender and he could play individual defense decently when facing players his size. Of course, even apart from this, his ability to play so many positions and roles offensively is enough to give him the all-around label.

[bizil]

Magic's all around game consisted on the offensive end. He was never an avg. defender let alone a great one.

But the bottom line line is he was a triple double waiting to happen. Rebounds happen on the defensive end too. Plus Magic could play PG-PF and at times C. It that's not great all around ability I DON'T KNOW WHAT IS!

And plus how many perimeter players can claim they are great scorers, great passers, great defenders, and great rebounders for their position:

MJ
Bron
Kobe
Wade
Hondo
West

PG wise:

Frazier
Payton
Chris Paul
Maybe Westbrook

So as u can see, it's very, very rare to be great at all four facets. But u can't dis these following legends for having it all BUT great defense. They are clearly STILL EPIC in their all around play:

Magic
Bird
Big O
T-Mac
Penny
Barry
Grant Hill
Drexler

[IamRAMBO24]

Nice insight captain obvious.

[Pointguard]

Magic's all around game consisted on the offensive end. He was never an avg. defender let alone a great one.
Magic had more control of pace than any player ever. If you make another team play your game, it affects their overall play. Magic could out run Denver, a running team, because he could out execute any team. Magic forced the most disciplined team ever into running with him. To me, Magic had the best defensive finals game ever: Magic took Bird's, DJ's and Ainge's legs away in a clinching game as Ainge and DJ shot 6 for 31 and Bird 41%. 18 for 60 overall. Magic had more of an overall game than any player because he greatly affected his five teammates game, and the other team often became conservative for not wanting to make mistakes, knowing it was very hard to out-execute Magic. If Kareem got a block he was rewarded by Magic on the other end.

Magic also lead the league in steals twice. Magic getting a steal was the best defense to offense play the game ever had. Because Magic didn't use it to just convert it into a 4 point turn around - he used it to get who he wanted to liven up in the offense: If AC Greene wasn't getting rebounds, Magic got him involved by rewarding him on offense, usually a fast break.

His overall game was just that - very overall.

[played0ut]

Also about magic's passing.

-Players would say once their team gets possession gets possession of the ball, they'd just take off running BLINDLY. Somehow once they get to the other end the ball would just 'magically' end up in their hands.

-No matter where they are, they need to keep their hands ready. No matter where they are or who's covering them, magic's pass would suddenly reach them.

[LeBird]

What about when he said Nj didn't win because he didn't have enough help. Lol Bird knows talent when he sees it and your just bias.

I have Jordan as a GOAT candidate, so I believe he has talent, obviously. I just don't buy the narrative that Bird who was a killer and who dedicated his life to being the best basketball player, to beat Magic and the Lakers, to prove himself constantly, just up and thought Jordan was all that at the first tip. That's nonsense.


Funny that Bird saying this is the same as what Russell did to Wilt. Always praise him to the media and try to appear friendly and respectful. Everyone knows that as late as the 87-88 after which Bird was a shell Larry was outplaying Jordan in the majority of their H2H games. A part of me thinks this was all intentional by Bird. Psychological warfare at its finest!! :oldlol:

Anyways MJ wasn't clearly better than Bird until the Bird's back blew out in '88 and he wasn't clearly better than Magic until '91... In his rookie year he wasn't close. And that's not an insult you're comparing a friggin rookie to top 6 players all-time in their primes!!


Exactly. I think a part of it was also that by selling the league and bringing attention to new stars, that it'd end up as a better situation for them as well.

[Smoke117]

Hard to believe samuraiswish has not even posted once in this thread. He must be on vacation because I can't see him giving up an opportunity to show off his deepthroat skills in a thread like this.

[GimmeThat]

teams that rebound well, protects the paint and gives up on jumpers generally need a defensive specialist to help protect the 3 point line.

before the 3 point line was even invented, I bet defense really involved a lot on the ability to cover while switching defenders.

i.e. Magic Johnson may have been an even better defender in the 60's 70's

[played0ut]

:facepalm

Guys. Don't disrespect Larry Legend like that. He's fiercely competitive-- and absolutely, positively, unapologetically blunt.

Don't make him out to be an sly, slick, underhanded wordsmith of a politican, cuz he ****ING AIN'T.


I have Jordan as a GOAT candidate, so I believe he has talent, obviously. I just don't buy the narrative that Bird who was a killer and who dedicated his life to being the best basketball player, to beat Magic and the Lakers, to prove himself constantly, just up and thought Jordan was all that at the first tip. That's nonsense.


Exactly. I think a part of it was also that by selling the league and bringing attention to new stars, that it'd end up as a better situation for them as well.

If you stop and honestly, HONESTLY think about it you'd realize that what you're suggesting is completely uncharacteristic of Bird. Not that he doesn't care about the franchises and the NBA (he refused free money from the Celtics because he felt he didn't deserve it), but the way you're suggesting he's going at it is seriously dissing Larry Bird.

[played0ut]

Premature statements like this are not unique to MJ. Jerry Sloan pretty much had Bird as GOAT (http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=lqgrAAAAIBAJ&sjid=Bv0FAAAAIBAJ&pg=6684,2938934&dq=larry+bird+best+ever+basketball+player&hl=en) during rookie season.

People were calling Kareem (Lew Alcindor) the best player in the world during his rookie season.
(http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=348&dat=19710330&id=9ZtOAAAAIBAJ&sjid=30MDAAAAIBAJ&pg=4519,4185979)

George Mikan called Bill Russell the GOAT (http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=ENUmAAAAIBAJ&sjid=owIGAAAAIBAJ&pg=2445,4482680&dq=russell+so-good-he-scares-you+mikan&hl=en) before he had even played one NBA game.

>Bill Russell could plausibly be seen as GOAT for the entirety of his career (some foresight by Mikan, btw).
>Bird for a stretch was considered the best player in the world


I don't see the problem, aside from 'people'.




:applause:

MJ's explosiveness >>>>> LeBron

LeBron's athleticism is overrated.

nahh. Lebrons athleticism isn't overrated. MJ's just exceptionally hyperathletic.

MJ's vert was 48 inches.
Lebron's vert 44 inches
Kobe's vert 38 inches (still higher than average, for you loud haters)

The surprising one?













Pippen 48 inches.

[Soundwave]

Bird was pretty secure in his ego. Guys like Magic and Isiah weren't so much, so they had a bit of a stand off-ish if not frosty relationship with Jordan early on because I don't think they knew how to deal with his talent and the attention it got.

Magic was still by the 92 Dream Team, having been retired, still ribbing Jordan about who was the best, Larry just thought he was nuts.

Bird also did apparently go to the Celtics front office and tell them they needed to win and win as many as possible before the Bulls got their act together, that's not just "for show" or to placate Jordan.

It's really not that hard to see the league was going to be his when he got a good team around him.

Magic would try to go the other way and tried to hype the Cavs (yes the Cavs) as the team of the 90s, lol.

[OldSchoolBBall]

Reminds me of Bobby Knight in 1984 saying that Michael Jordan was the best basketball player that he had ever seen.

Yeah, I was going to post this. Bird was just being gracious, and even I don't believe he was the best ever as a rookie, but it does go to show you how highly regarded Jordan was by his peers even as a rookie. Bobby Knight, after coaching him for one month for the Olympics in the Summer of '84, said that he was the best player he'd ever seen, and would go down as the greatest ever if he didn't get injured. And this was before MJ set foot on a pro court.

[OldSchoolBBall]

Anyways MJ wasn't clearly better than Bird until the Bird's back blew out in '88 and he wasn't clearly better than Magic until '91... In his rookie year he wasn't close. And that's not an insult you're comparing a friggin rookie to top 6 players all-time in their primes!!

Jordan was clearly better than Magic by '89, 1990 at the latest. The vast majority of people viewed MJ as the best in the game by 1990. Hell, some were calling him the greatest ever in 1990 before he had even won a title.

[poido123]

Bird is a class act and paid Jordan a huge compliment here.

A true great in his own right, these two legends will be sorely missed...

[Pointguard]

Jordan was clearly better than Magic by '89, 1990 at the latest. The vast majority of people viewed MJ as the best in the game by 1990. Hell, some were calling him the greatest ever in 1990 before he had even won a title.
Nah, that doesn't happen. Bird and Magic had spent the decade saying it was done by ring count. If Bird had four rings Jordan would have needed 8 to surpass him. Now there were some who had resentment that Bird didn't win the Magic battle and those people did indeed annoint MJ as the greatest early on. It was not because of Jordan's play. It was said out of hating. Don't believe in the crap they feed you.

When Jordan finally played Magic it was billed as Nike vs Converse, best team player vs best individual player, cerebral player vs best athlete. Magic and Bird spent the decade showing the value of a thinking, passing, smart team player that could score was the new wave. Jordan wasn't there as that type of player until after the second ring, and was never at the level of Magic and Bird.

[LeBird]

If you stop and honestly, HONESTLY think about it you'd realize that what you're suggesting is completely uncharacteristic of Bird. Not that he doesn't care about the franchises and the NBA (he refused free money from the Celtics because he felt he didn't deserve it), but the way you're suggesting he's going at it is seriously dissing Larry Bird.

How is it dissing him? He is explicitly saying that he cares more about the success of the league by that time of his career and talks about the kind of promotion Jordan is bringing and adding fuel to it.

[OldSchoolBBall]

Nah, that doesn't happen. Bird and Magic had spent the decade saying it was done by ring count. If Bird had four rings Jordan would have needed 8 to surpass him. Now there were some who had resentment that Bird didn't win the Magic battle and those people did indeed annoint MJ as the greatest early on. It was not because of Jordan's play. It was said out of hating. Don't believe in the crap they feed you.

When Jordan finally played Magic it was billed as Nike vs Converse, best team player vs best individual player, cerebral player vs best athlete. Magic and Bird spent the decade showing the value of a thinking, passing, smart team player that could score was the new wave. Jordan wasn't there as that type of player until after the second ring, and was never at the level of Magic and Bird.

Again, the majority of people had Jordan as the best player in the game by '89 - 1990 at the latest. Deal with reality.

[HomieWeMajor]

Bird was ordered to say this by David Stern to begin the' passing of the torch' once him and Magic would be out of the league.

[Real14]

Bird was ordered to say this by David Stern to begin the' passing of the torch' once him and Magic would be out of the league.
Bird was being honest man. He knew Jordan was that niguh and he had a special dosage of his talent that next year aka tha year of "Real14" when Jordan was scoring 63 at his domain.

[bizil]

Here's the thing about guys like Bron, Magic, Big O, and Bird. They are guys who are alpha dogs and dominate scoring BUT they are arguably better passers than they are scorers. Their IQ dicates them looking to dominate passing just as much as scoring. It's almost as if they take what the D gives them and go from there.

Guys like MJ and Kobe have IQ's that are epic too. But they are score first players whose scoring is CLEARLY better than their passing. Both are great passers and hell have played the PG position plenty in their careers. But their mindset is a great scorer who is also a great passer. The guys like Big O, Magic, and Bron are great passers who are also great scorers. With Bird being a SF-PF with PG type vision, he's a bit different than all these guys. He wasn't really the primary ball handler or a guard, but yet he was the best passer on his teams. He's arguably the greatest shooter ever and was a true alpha dog so u have to play to that strength. But Bird's more in line with a Big O or Magic than he is a MJ or Kobe.

But Bird is the most fundamentally sound basketball player of all time while MJ is the most gifted basketball player of all time. I think Lebron overall is the most versatile ever ( a mantle previously held by guys like Magic, Big O, and arguably KG). Magic and Big O I think are the most dominant floor general ever and can dictate a game better anybody.

[Soundwave]

How is it dissing him? He is explicitly saying that he cares more about the success of the league by that time of his career and talks about the kind of promotion Jordan is bringing and adding fuel to it.

Or you know you could stop injecting your own personal bias into it and just admit that maybe (just gasp maybe!) Bird was impressed with Jordan.

That's arguably the most impressive season from a rookie in the past 30 years, why wouldn't people be impressed? I think Bird was smart enough to see that the kid just wasn't on a very good team ... yet.

Greatness recognizes greatness.

I understand trying to "sell" the league, but calling a player "God" the following year is a bit much too if that's your only angle.

[TheMan]

Bird just being honest. Those who say Bird had some covert ulterior motive are just hating on the GOAT.


Deal with it.

[feyki]

The reason why Bird was saying that is because he saw a guy who was an epic all around player like him and Magic. That was also a lockdown kind of defender, can play PG, SG, and SF, and is a freak athlete! That kind of player had NEVER been seen before in the NBA period! Big O didn't have the defense and freak athletic ability MJ had. Dr.J, Baylor, Thompson and Hawkins weren't as great all around as MJ.

In 1985, I would still give Bird and Magic the edge slightly as the better players. They incorporated their teammates better and were actually more versatile and able to play the PF position in addition to the perimeter. But Bird knew MJ was gonna pass Magic and Bird by sooner than later. And if u pass Bird and Magic by, u are the best perimeter player of all time in terms of talent and skills. Of course it would some years later when MJ would pass them by GOAT wise.

Great post .

[Stringer Bell]

Bird has always been respectful of other great players. He said those things about Jordan when Jordan was very young, had the "God disguised as Jordan" comment in 1986, said Magic was "the best he's ever seen" and "unbelievable" after the 1987 Finals.

He's not one of those "our era was so much better" type guys. He pretty much said it was ridiculous that Kobe didn't win an MVP until 2008, said LeBron was as "good as anyone who's ever played" when he went to Miami, recently said he thinks players nowadays might be better than his era and others...Remember when the 1992 Dream Team scrimmaged with college players? He said "Man, if Chris Webber is the future of the league, I gotta get out here".