How good would James-Irving-Embiid-Noel have been?

[hawkfan]

Gilbert screwing up.

[Meticode]

Embiid and Noel won't work out together and Wiggins will have a better career than Noel.

[DMAVS41]

Embiid and Noel won't work out together and Wiggins will have a better career than Noel.

I wouldn't be so sure about Noel and Embid not working together. It is going to depend on the kind of team they have and what style they play.

I do think Wiggins is better than Noel...

But I think Noel is better than Bennett...

Lebron needs shooting at pf though...so Noel wouldn't work on the court with Embid going forward next to Lebron.

[NuggetsFan]

Embiid and Noel won't work out together and Wiggins will have a better career than Noel.

You don't know that. Wiggins having a better career is irrelevant towards Noel since they could have had both. Even if Noel/Embiid didn't work out, Noel has way more value than Anthony Bennett. Could have been used to get more talent.

Noel should have been the pick. I think Cleveland wanted to get better and compete and didn't want to stay waiting on Noel for a season.

[DukeDelonte13]

I like how all of a sudden Gilbert became the GM of the cavs.

They didn't like Noel because they were trying to get better sooner rather than later.

props to Philly for keeping him out for the full year and just working on his game. He looked way better offensively in the SL then he did in college.


EDIT: And with Embiid, who I absolutely LOVED, how the f*ck were they gonna draft him when their own medical team discovered that new stress fracture? The dude has had two before he played a game in the league. I think Embiid could very well be a special player but his on thin ice with the stress fractures. Same injury that took out Yao.

If he has to get one more pin in that navicular he's done.

[DMAVS41]

You don't know that. Wiggins having a better career is irrelevant towards Noel since they could have had both. Even if Noel/Embiid didn't work out, Noel has way more value than Anthony Bennett. Could have been used to get more talent.

Noel should have been the pick. I think Cleveland wanted to get better and compete and didn't want to stay waiting on Noel for a season.

Bingo.

It's obvious that the Cavs just didn't want to wait on Noel and they took what they deemed the most NBA ready player...but that is just shit logic for team building.

[DukeDelonte13]

Bingo.

It's obvious that the Cavs just didn't want to wait on Noel and they took what they deemed the most NBA ready player...but that is just shit logic for team building.


Bennett was really good in college.

Porter sucked. Len sucked. Cody Zeller somewhat sucked, etc, it was a real crapshoot draft. They weren't about to take yet another 6'3'' guard in Dipo either.

[Milbuck]

It'd be an easier question to answer without all the unknowns. Embiid's career could be anywhere from Oden 2.0 to a Hakeem/Duncan hybrid. And Noel has shown some pretty great stuff in SL..but we have yet to see him play through an 82-game season against legit NBA competition.

I have no doubt that Kyrie and Lebron are gonna be right behind KD-Westbrook as the sickest duo in the game though. If anyone can elevate Kyrie's game on both ends of the floor..it's Lebron.

[Meticode]

You don't know that. Wiggins having a better career is irrelevant towards Noel since they could have had both. Even if Noel/Embiid didn't work out, Noel has way more value than Anthony Bennett. Could have been used to get more talent.

Noel should have been the pick. I think Cleveland wanted to get better and compete and didn't want to stay waiting on Noel for a season.
I don't know that just like the OP doesn't know how good that 4 listed players would be. It's spit balling is all it is. Just because players have turned out a certain way with teams now doesn't mean they'd turn out this way if drafted by another team.

[Meticode]

I like how all of a sudden Gilbert became the GM of the cavs.

They didn't like Noel because they were trying to get better sooner rather than later.

props to Philly for keeping him out for the full year and just working on his game. He looked way better offensively in the SL then he did in college.


EDIT: And with Embiid, who I absolutely LOVED, how the f*ck were they gonna draft him when their own medical team discovered that new stress fracture? The dude has had two before he played a game in the league. I think Embiid could very well be a special player but his on thin ice with the stress fractures. Same injury that took out Yao.

If he has to get one more pin in that navicular he's done.
Well he did...he's the one that went down to Florida to recruit LeBron, no one else did. He's the one that wanted the pick to be Wiggins while the front office wanted Parker. He's the one that wanted Noel last year, but the front office wanted Bennett.

[DukeDelonte13]

Well he did...he's the one that went down to Florida to recruit LeBron, no one else did. He's the one that wanted the pick to be Wiggins while the front office wanted Parker. He's the one that wanted Noel last year, but the front office wanted Bennett.


aside from going to Florida (i've heard griff was present for that) all the other stuff you mentioned is pure conjecture.

Gilbert wanting Noel doesn't fit in with the assumed (and IMO complete bullsh*t) Gilbert agenda anyways.

[hawkfan]

Defensively Embiid-Noel would work.

[Meticode]

aside from going to Florida (i've heard griff was present for that) all the other stuff you mentioned is pure conjecture.

Gilbert wanting Noel doesn't fit in with the assumed (and IMO complete bullsh*t) Gilbert agenda anyways.
Sure it is.

[NuggetsFan]

I don't know that just like the OP doesn't know how good that 4 listed players would be. It's spit balling is all it is. Just because players have turned out a certain way with teams now doesn't mean they'd turn out this way if drafted by another team.

I don't agree with the OP. I take Wiggins over Embiid. I do think the Cavs made the wrong choice taking Bennett over Noel. I can respect them for wanting to get better right away and stop tanking but I think if they take Noal it doesn't affect there season enough to drop in position and they still get Wiggins. Noel is either a better fit/better player or he has more value than Bennett and can be moved for somebody better.

Nobody knows how things turn out but I think having Noel instead of Bennett is just the flat out better option. Noel didn't play last year, Bennett didn't have enough impact to really change things so Wiggins still ends up a Cav.

[DukeDelonte13]

Sure it is.

in the same breath, you say gilbert is acting as GM of the cavs, but then the real GM at the time took a player that Gilbert supposedly didn't want. Am I missing something here?

Outlandish claims require outlandish evidence. Ferry, Grant, and Griffin have all said the same things. Gilbert let's them do their jobs, and gives them a blank check to do so.

[Meticode]

I don't agree with the OP. I take Wiggins over Embiid. I do think the Cavs made the wrong choice taking Bennett over Noel. I can respect them for wanting to get better right away and stop tanking but I think if they take Noal it doesn't affect there season enough to drop in position and they still get Wiggins. Noel is either a better fit/better player or he has more value than Bennett and can be moved for somebody better.

Nobody knows how things turn out but I think having Noel instead of Bennett is just the flat out better option. Noel didn't play last year, Bennett didn't have enough impact to really change things so Wiggins still ends up a Cav.
You can't say this. Perhaps the Cavs had a few more wins or a few more losses. In any case if you increase the Cavs percentage to land the #1 pick or decrease them it changes the whole outcome of the draft. For example the year Anthony Davis was drafted the Cavs and Pelicans had the same percentage chances of landing the #1 pick, but the Pelicans LOST the coin flip giving them a 0.1% less chance of landing the #1 pick AND they got second set of combinations. The Cavaliers were literally 1 coin flip away from landing Anthony Davis, and it wasn't because they lost the coin flip, it was because the won it, but the less likely team landed him (Pelicans).

http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2012/5/30/3053693/cleveland-cavaliers-nba-draft-2012-anthony-davis-coin-flip

In short, simply saying we still get Wiggins is short-sighted. A lot of things can change the out come of where your land in the draft. Just because you'd suck just as bad doesn't mean you'd get the pick.

[Meticode]

in the same breath, you say gilbert is acting as GM of the cavs, but then the real GM at the time took a player that Gilbert supposedly didn't want. Am I missing something here?

Outlandish claims require outlandish evidence. Ferry, Grant, and Griffin have all said the same things. Gilbert let's them do their jobs, and gives them a blank check to do so.
He's acted as GM and already has done so twice this year before basketball has even started.

[NuggetsFan]

You can't say this. Perhaps the Cavs had a few more wins or a few more losses. In any case if you increase the Cavs percentage to land the #1 pick or decrease them it changes the whole outcome of the draft. For example the year Anthony Davis was drafted the Cavs and Pelicans had the same percentage chances of landing the #1 pick, but the Pelicans LOST the coin flip giving them a 0.1% less chance of landing the #1 pick AND they got second set of combinations. The Cavaliers were literally 1 coin flip away from landing Anthony Davis, and it wasn't because they lost the coin flip, it was because the won it, but the less likely team landed him (Pelicans).

http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2012/5/30/3053693/cleveland-cavaliers-nba-draft-2012-anthony-davis-coin-flip

In short, simply saying we still get Wiggins is short-sighted. A lot of things can change the out come of where your land in the draft. Just because you'd suck just as bad doesn't mean you'd get the pick.

If the Cavaliers had won 33 games last year and got the #1 pick how would not having Bennett change that if you were to believe that with or without AB they still only win 33 games? Individually he doesn't factor into coin tosses, just games W/L. I get thinking without Bennett somebody being like they could win 31 games or 35 games but nothing else really & I personally disagree.

So many of his shitty games he only played like 10-15 minutes. In his few good games he had the Cavaliers still lost. He put up 19/10 & 10/11 in wins vs the Kings and Philly. Philly game was a blowout, won by 10 vs the Kings. Kings were a 28 win team. He had games like 7/7 in blowout wins vs the Nets. He scored above 10 points 6x. When he grabbed 7 or more boards every game except one was atleast a 10 point swing which was 8. His production was really similar in wins and losses, he averaged 13 minutes a game and only played in 52 games. He had like -0.4 WS.

If there was a time machine and you used it and took Noel instead of Bennett I'd say your odds at the Cavaliers winning 33 games would be pretty good. Were not talking a do-over where injuries, games etc. are changed. Were talking about the Cavs selecting Noel and Bennett being completely removed from last season and letting the Cavs play it out with minor rotation changes.

I personally think players with AB's production, games played, minutes played don't have a big enough impact with how the Cavs season went.

Cavs had 21 games that they either lost or won by 5 or less points. 9 of those games AB didn't even play. 5 of those games he played less than 10 minutes. He took more than 5 shots once. Made 2 of them. A win vs the Wizards where he had 8/6 on 4 shots might be your best bet at losing without him. He went 0-4 vs GS in another close loss. All in all I think it levels out, somebody picks up his minor production in wins, somebody tries and messes up just like he did in loses.