You think its possible Dem's can ever adopt a pro gun rights stance?

[Godzuki]

because i swear that would be the ultimate strategy to beat Republicans at the polls where its money. So many military and so many country people, etc. hate the left mainly because they think they're going to take away their guns. Even law enforcement tend to vote Republican based on that paranoia....

I've even swung more pro gun rights, and i think it can very reasonably be argued to moderate Democrats.

Its the far left i know that would never adopt it but we don't really need them. They're way too soft, PC, etc almost a thorn in the side like most of the extreme ends of both parties... to me most moderate Dem's are very reasonable people tho.

would any Republicans here consider voting Dem if they adopted pro gun right stances?

I feel it would be a complete game changer. The whole Chicago situation isn't doing gun rights any favors, but there have been quite a few incidents of late that have even justified conceal and carry(but haven't seen reported on national news).

:confusedshrug:

[Myth]

I never understood why Republicans are afraid of stricter laws on obtaining guns. It doesn't take away their guns and all of those who have not committed violent crimes are still allowed to get them. The reaction always seems to be "They are trying to take our guns" even if that isn't even close to being proposed. Yes, many violent criminals will get them anyway, but the more hoops they have to jump through to obtain guns illegally, it will at least reduce the number of criminals that will get them.

[Cactus-Sack]

Making someone take a few tests before getting a gun isn't anti-gun.

It is anti-American though.

[SupermanOnSteroids]

the NRA is da devil

[longhornfan1234]

I can see it. Dems used to be against gay marriage.

[KyrieTheFuture]

Anyone who thinks that it should be easy to get a gun in retarded. Illegal doesn't come into it, it shouldn't be easy to kill someone. You can't just drive whenever you want to either, you have to be licensed. Cars are a lot less dangerous than guns.

[Akrazotile]

Altho I support the rights of responsible citizens to own guns I am not myself a gun hobbyist - can someone clue me in on what the current regulations for obtaining a permit are and how it is Dems are propose they be changed?

[Patrick Chewing]

I never understood why Republicans are afraid of stricter laws on obtaining guns. It doesn't take away their guns and all of those who have not committed violent crimes are still allowed to get them. The reaction always seems to be "They are trying to take our guns" even if that isn't even close to being proposed. Yes, many violent criminals will get them anyway, but the more hoops they have to jump through to obtain guns illegally, it will at least reduce the number of criminals that will get them.


LOL, how do you create more hoops to obtain one illegally?? How about reinforcing what's already been out there for years.....harsher sentences for gun crimes.

And Republicans aren't "afraid" of the government taking away their guns like you think they are. If the government takes away the right to own an AR-15 for example, what's stopping them from taking away other guns down the road? If a criminal can't shoot an AR-15, he will shoot the next best thing he can get his hands on. So at what point does the government stop taking away the right to own certain guns?

[NumberSix]

I lean heavily right, but I would vote democrat because the republican party keeps running incompetent clowns.

The 2nd amendment is a phoney issue anyway. NOBODY is going to actually try to change the gun laws.

[NumberSix]

Anyone who thinks that it should be easy to get a gun in retarded. Illegal doesn't come into it, it shouldn't be easy to kill someone. You can't just drive whenever you want to either, you have to be licensed. Cars are a lot less dangerous than guns.
Driving a car isn't a constitutionally guaranteed right.

America is NOT a democracy. It's a constitutional republic. That means there are certain guarantees that are not even up for discussion.

[Akrazotile]

I lean heavily right, but I would vote democrat because the republican party keeps running incompetent clowns.

The 2nd amendment is a phoney issue anyway. NOBODY is going to actually try to change the gun laws.


I feel like this is done on purpose, because the 'powers that be' want to keep the country as divided as possible.

Theyre going to continue to do that. It will have to be the people ourselves that set aside partisan agendas and come to plausible solutions and compromises. But most people have a greater appetite for partisan competitiveness than low-drama polticial discussion and negotiation.

The real problem is how few people pay attention at all. Just look at ISH as an example. The number of people who post about sociopolitical topics is a drop compared to the total number of posters. Most Americans dont pay attention to anything all year and then when election day comes around theyll just mindlessly vote for one of the two guys they saw advertised on the television.

[KyrieTheFuture]

Driving a car isn't a constitutionally guaranteed right.

America is NOT a democracy. It's a constitutional republic. That means there are certain guarantees that are not even up for discussion.
Like I said, I have no problem with owning a gun. It just shouldn't be so easy. We're not constitutionally guaranteed convenience

[boozehound]

LOL, how do you create more hoops to obtain one illegally?? How about reinforcing what's already been out there for years.....harsher sentences for gun crimes.

And Republicans aren't "afraid" of the government taking away their guns like you think they are. If the government takes away the right to own an AR-15 for example, what's stopping them from taking away other guns down the road? If a criminal can't shoot an AR-15, he will shoot the next best thing he can get his hands on. So at what point does the government stop taking away the right to own certain guns?
the government already does this, which is why its a completely fallacious argument. Your right to bear arms is already restricted (no automatic weapons, no RPG, etc.). By what constitutional measure is that different? Its not.


I have two problems. The first is gunshow sales (where most of the traceable guns used by cartels and other criminal organizations come from). They should have the exact same background checks and waiting periods as buying from a store.

The second is the conceal carry permits. Utah's classes are such a joke that people teach them in other states (like maryland, not neighboring states) since the conceal carry permit transfers to many other states. You can get a conceal carry permit in Utah without ever having fired a gun in your life. that is ridiculous.


Personally, I am about as left as it gets and I own guns. Now, my guns arent for self-defense, but are tools for killing animals.

As for people not being scared of the govt taking their guns, you need to expose yourself to a broader swath of your party. There is definitely a paranoia about this. Despite Obama never making any push towards new gun control legislation, nearly 70 million guns were sold during his first term (nearly double the prior rate and a new record). Additionally people were buying bullets in such high quantity (to hoard) that many gun stores couldnt keep enough bullets in stock. http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2013/01/11/179551/us-gun-sales-hit-a-record-high.html

[NumberSix]

Like I said, I have no problem with owning a gun. It just shouldn't be so easy. We're not constitutionally guaranteed convenience
It's not "easy" to get a license because it's set up in a way so that it is possible to NOT get one.

What exactly is the way you make it "not so easy" to get a gun without the possibility of being denied?

It's a guaranteed right, so there can't be a possibility of not being able to get a gun so what exactly would it mean to make it "less easy" to get one?

[Godzuki]

the government already does this, which is why its a completely fallacious argument. Your right to bear arms is already restricted (no automatic weapons, no RPG, etc.). By what constitutional measure is that different? Its not.


I have two problems. The first is gunshow sales (where most of the traceable guns used by cartels and other criminal organizations come from). They should have the exact same background checks and waiting periods as buying from a store.

The second is the conceal carry permits. Utah's classes are such a joke that people teach them in other states (like maryland, not neighboring states) since the conceal carry permit transfers to many other states. You can get a conceal carry permit in Utah without ever having fired a gun in your life. that is ridiculous.


Personally, I am about as left as it gets and I own guns. Now, my guns arent for self-defense, but are tools for killing animals.

As for people not being scared of the govt taking their guns, you need to expose yourself to a broader swath of your party. There is definitely a paranoia about this. Despite Obama never making any push towards new gun control legislation, nearly 70 million guns were sold during his first term (nearly double the prior rate and a new record). Additionally people were buying bullets in such high quantity (to hoard) that many gun stores couldnt keep enough bullets in stock. http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2013/01/11/179551/us-gun-sales-hit-a-record-high.html


thing is given what you believe and how minor your quibbles with gun laws are, couldn't that easily be sacrificed for a more gungho, near Republican-like support of gun laws if it guaranteed victories at the polls and majorities? i would easily...even if its under false pretenses where we don't all completely buy into it like the Republicans, the idea of being very for it and supporting it like the GOP does, would really equalize their huge advantage with voters based on this issue.

I swear it would be a game changer but knowing how strict party lines and beliefs seem ingrained its extremely unlikely to happen imo.

[Droid101]

Still hard to find cheap 22LR ammo around here.

Obama is the greatest gun seller in history to be honest. Old, scared white folks are stocking up!

[NumberSix]

Still hard to find cheap 22LR ammo around here.

Obama is the greatest gun seller in history to be honest. Old, scared white folks are stocking up!
Of course. Anyone who buys a gun is a racist. Anyone who doesn't vote for democrats is a racist. Anyone who doesn't tip is a racist. Anyone who drives a car that uses a lot of gas is a racist. Anyone who wants lower taxes is a racist. Anyone who wants to cut spending is a racist. Anyone who DOESN'T want racial quotas is a racist. Anyone who wants limited government power is a racist. Anyone who doesn't want mandatory PRIVATE insurance is a racist. Anyone who dislikes religion is a smart rational person..... unless that religion happens to be anything other than Christianity. If it's Islam, Judaism or whatever, they're a racist. Anyone who wants existing immigration laws enforced is a racist. Anyone who doesn't like unions is a racist. Anyone who disagrees with climate change is a racist. Anyone who doesn't agree with abortion is a woman hating racist.

Anyone who doesn't subscribe to left wing politics in any way shape or form is a racist.

[MMM]

Republicans should drop the religious right and focus on fiscal and economic policies. I feel they would be far more successful because the religious right would still vote for them over the Dems.

Just from an outsiders perspective but why aren't the fiscal problems more of an issue. When ever the Canadian government had large fiscal problems it seem people demanded to get the house in order despite the cost of less services or higher taxes.

I mean if Canadians can slash their beloved universal health care system than why isn't there the same urgency in the US.

[Patrick Chewing]

Old, scared white folks are stocking up!


More ignorance from this assclown. Old, white folks retire to Florida. Gun buyers are Americans that know a wannabe dictator when they see one (Obumma).

[Godzuki]

Republicans should drop the religious right and focus on fiscal and economic policies. I feel they would be far more successful because the religious right would still vote for them over the Dems.

Just from an outsiders perspective but why aren't the fiscal problems more of an issue. When ever the Canadian government had large fiscal problems it seem people demanded to get the house in order despite the cost of less services or higher taxes.

I mean if Canadians can slash their beloved universal health care system than why isn't there the same urgency in the US.


its because the religious right are such a huge base, like all churches, lots of old people, and they're easy to dupe, and give a lot of money....GOP without them would be severely crippled.

[~primetime~]

http://cdn.theatlantic.com/static/mt/assets/politics/gunchart.png



Kind of off topic but IMO regulations need to focus on handguns only. Currently there is a 2 week waiting list for a handgun. No waiting for other guns. I guess that is something but I wish there was more.

I feel like the public is too caught up and worried about 'assault rifles' but no one is running around killing people with assault rifles other than the odd school shooting once every couple years. HANDGUNS are the issue...the gun you can put in your belt without anyone noticing. Rifles aren't a big issue here...not even assault rifles...let people stock up on those if they want, just not handguns.

[MMM]

its because the religious right are such a huge base, like all churches, lots of old people, and they're easy to dupe, and give a lot of money....GOP without them would be severely crippled.

Yeah but my point is they wouldn't lose them. Who would the religious right vote for instead???

Instead of wasting breath on Gay Marriage, Abortion, etc
Focus on getting fiscal issues resolved or do people not care about huge deficits and debt??? and how it impacts future taxation and spending.

[Godzuki]

Yeah but my point is they wouldn't lose them. Who would the religious right vote for instead???

Instead of wasting breath on Gay Marriage, Abortion, etc
Focus on getting fiscal issues resolved or do people not care about huge deficits and debt??? and how it impacts future taxation and spending.


they don't tho, they care more about ethical standards, religious motivations, etc. and there are candidates like Brownback, or even Huckabee's they'll champion. Republicans already have a lot of split with candidates within their party and the religious side tends to be very stubborn, when the GOP tries to be strategic. they're like their own entity of moral conservatism.

i hate the religious right, its crazy how self righteous a voter base they are but they have a very strong base in America. Purely fiscal based conservatives in my view are a minority to the religious right, even with the tea party on the fiscal side...who are their own version of psychos.


...all in my generalized view of course.

[Kblaze8855]

Driving a car isn't a constitutionally guaranteed right.

America is NOT a democracy. It's a constitutional republic. That means there are certain guarantees that are not even up for discussion.

Except on common sense issues of public safety. Which is why free speech doesn't let you yell "Fire" in a packed building or make terroristic threats.

The first amendment has to be bent around safety. No reason the second shouldn't when it creates dangers much worse than an unchecked first ever would in a modern America.

[Akrazotile]

http://cdn.theatlantic.com/static/mt/assets/politics/gunchart.png



Kind of off topic but IMO regulations need to focus on handguns only. Currently there is a 2 week waiting list for a handgun. No waiting for other guns. I guess that is something but I wish there was more.

I feel like the public is too caught up and worried about 'assault rifles' but no one is running around killing people with assault rifles other than the odd school shooting once every couple years. HANDGUNS are the issue...the gun you can put in your belt without anyone noticing. Rifles aren't a big issue here...not even assault rifles...let people stock up on those if they want, just not handguns.


I tend to agree about handguns in theory, I think the problem is that laws will not effectively stop criminals from obtaining them, only those who would carry them strictly as a means of protection.

Remember, we are not Finland or Switzerland. We are the melting pot and America has to take a realistic view on the unique challenges of dealing with crime in our own country.

[Droid101]

Gun buyers are Americans that know a wannabe dictator when they see one (Obumma).
I would love to hear why you think the legally elected President of the United States is a "wannabe dictator" but I'm afraid if you go off the rails too far you'll need another dose of your medication.

[Droid101]

Of course. Anyone who buys a gun is a racist. Anyone who doesn't vote for democrats is a racist. Anyone who doesn't tip is a racist. Anyone who drives a car that uses a lot of gas is a racist. Anyone who wants lower taxes is a racist. Anyone who wants to cut spending is a racist. Anyone who DOESN'T want racial quotas is a racist. Anyone who wants limited government power is a racist. Anyone who doesn't want mandatory PRIVATE insurance is a racist. Anyone who dislikes religion is a smart rational person..... unless that religion happens to be anything other than Christianity. If it's Islam, Judaism or whatever, they're a racist. Anyone who wants existing immigration laws enforced is a racist. Anyone who doesn't like unions is a racist. Anyone who disagrees with climate change is a racist. Anyone who doesn't agree with abortion is a woman hating racist.

Anyone who doesn't subscribe to left wing politics in any way shape or form is a racist.
Dude calm down. I have guns, and didn't mention racism.

[travelingman]

More ignorance from this assclown. Old, white folks retire to Florida. Gun buyers are Americans that know a wannabe dictator when they see one (Obumma).
Haha, good one you bitch! Care to clog this thread up with pointless graphics like you just recently did in another thread?

[travelingman]

Of course. Anyone who buys a gun is a racist. Anyone who doesn't vote for democrats is a racist. Anyone who doesn't tip is a racist. Anyone who drives a car that uses a lot of gas is a racist. Anyone who wants lower taxes is a racist. Anyone who wants to cut spending is a racist. Anyone who DOESN'T want racial quotas is a racist. Anyone who wants limited government power is a racist. Anyone who doesn't want mandatory PRIVATE insurance is a racist. Anyone who dislikes religion is a smart rational person..... unless that religion happens to be anything other than Christianity. If it's Islam, Judaism or whatever, they're a racist. Anyone who wants existing immigration laws enforced is a racist. Anyone who doesn't like unions is a racist. Anyone who disagrees with climate change is a racist. Anyone who doesn't agree with abortion is a woman hating racist.

Anyone who doesn't subscribe to left wing politics in any way shape or form is a racist.

How's the far side of the pool?

[secund2nun]

Yes, but it depends on the culture of a country. Most of the views on both sides are cultural, not inherent. The people of Switzerland are very progressive, yet very pro-gun. In some countries the people who favor smaller government are more anti-religion while the people that favor larger government are more religious.

Being economically progressive and being anti-gun is not naturally related...it just so happens the left was socially engineered that way just as the right is socially engineered another way. It's kinda like how some on the left oppose Christianity so much yet staunchly defend Muslims while the right are very religious yet anti-Muslim.....or how the right is so anti-abortion yet pro-war...or the right is so anti-personal liberty when it comes to drugs.

[NumberSix]

How's the far side of the pool?
The deep end? Racist apparently.

[reppy]

Making someone take a few tests before getting a gun isn't anti-gun.

I was able to get a concealed carry permit with nothing more than a background check and some finger prints.

They didn't even ask me to prove I knew how to handle a gun.

That's a little scary.

[Akrazotile]

I was able to get a concealed carry permit with nothing more than a background check and some finger prints.

They didn't even ask me to prove I knew how to handle a gun.

That's a little scary.


But the thing is there's always going to be a black market for these things anyway. It's no different than drugs. They're illegal and look how easy they are to obtain. Wouldnt be any different with guns. So I'm not sure it makes any difference how stringent the requirements are.