BREAKING: Team USA Cuts John Wall, Bradley Beal, and Paul Millsap

[Fudge]

BOOM!


USA Basketball cut Washington's John Wall, Bradley Beal and Atlanta's Paul Millsap today, sources told Yahoo Sports.

[Cocaine80s]

late

[SamuraiSWISH]

Good. Wall was playing, and shooting like garbage. Next Lillard needs to go. Guy is a flat out chucker, who doesn't play a lick of defense. At least Kyrie doesn't relentlessly shoot. We're good with D. Rose / Curry / Irving as PGs.

[KBaller33]

Wall was pretty bad in the scrimmage. No shock there.

[RedBlackAttack]

Kyrie. :rockon:

[RoundMoundOfReb]

How many more cuts are there going to be?

[CJ Mustard]

:oldlol: @ Kyrie making it over Wall. The Duke Bias is real. If Plumlee gets picked over Cousins it will be even more obvious.

[Cocaine80s]

:oldlol: @ Kyrie making it over Wall. The Duke Bias is real. If Plumlee gets picked over Cousins it will be even more obvious.
cousins shitting bricks right now

[CJ Mustard]

Good. Wall was playing, and shooting like garbage. Next Lillard needs to go. Guy is a flat out chucker, who doesn't play a lick of defense. At least Kyrie doesn't relentlessly shoot. We're good with D. Rose / Curry / Irving as PGs.
Which one of those PG's can defend? That's right, none of them. Wall is a better playmaker than them too. The team doesn't need more shooting/scoring, they've got that covered.

[Dengness9]

Its a 12 man team they will keep i believe.

Still left....

Rose
Curry
Kyrie
Lillard
Harden
Heyward
Parsons
Korver
Durant
AD
Cuz
Plum
Faried
Klay
Derozan
Drummond

4 more guys gotta cut from that list if Im correct here.

[SamuraiSWISH]

Which one of those PG's can defend? That's right, none of them. Wall is a better playmaker than them too. The team doesn't need more shooting/scoring, they've got that covered.
Actually Rose can ... he's been a slept on defender even since his 2011 MVP season. Coaches have been raving about his defensive abilities in these practices, and scrimmages. Try keeping up with current events, kiddo.

[Meticode]

Of course Coach K was going to keep Kyrie.

[bluechox2]

they need kyrie so that they can talk about lebron

[Dengness9]

:oldlol: @ Kyrie making it over Wall. The Duke Bias is real. If Plumlee gets picked over Cousins it will be even more obvious.


Im with you on the Plumlee/Cuz thing but you really think Wall should make it over Kyrie?

I dont care if Kyrie's defense is nowhere near Wall levels.

John Wall cannot shoot a fricken basketball. Its pathetic. He has so much talent too. He's a really good player but his inability to shoot is just too much of a weakness compared to the other guards.

[CJ Mustard]

Actually Rose can ... he's been a slept on defender even since his 2011 MVP season. Coaches have been raving about his defensive abilities in these practices, and scrimmages. Try keeping up with current events, kiddo.
I couldn't care less what coaches "rave" about. Rose was apparently back at an MVP level before the season started last year. Until I see Rose defend at a consistently high level myself, I don't buy it.

[SamuraiSWISH]

I couldn't care less what coaches "rave" about. Rose was apparently back at an MVP level before the season started last year. Until I see Rose defend at a consistently high level myself, I don't buy it.
Yea, because coaches don't know what they're talking about. Even without their validation, if you actually watched him play you'd know he's always been slept on in those regards. He gets especially geared up to defend elite players at his position. Does quite well too.

[CJ Mustard]

Im with you on the Plumlee/Cuz thing but you really think Wall should make it over Kyrie?

I dont care if Kyrie's defense is nowhere near Wall levels.

John Wall cannot shoot a fricken basketball. Its pathetic. He has so much talent too. He's a really good player but his inability to shoot is just too much of a weakness compared to the other guards.
He's a playmaker. The team has enough shooting as it is. Wall is also a better all around player than Irving by a solid margin.

[Milbuck]

Which one of those PG's can defend?
Rose..

[buddha]

Derrick Rose / Steph Curry / Kyrie Irving
James Harden / Klay Thompson
Kevin Durant / DeMar DeRozan / Kyle Korver
Anthony Davis / Kenneth Faried
Demarcus Cousins / Andre Drummond

is the team I would go with

[Meticode]

:oldlol: @ Kyrie making it over Wall. The Duke Bias is real. If Plumlee gets picked over Cousins it will be even more obvious.
Wall can't shoot, he can't make it. You have to be able to shoot if you're a wing player in international play.

[RedBlackAttack]

Derrick Rose / Steph Curry / Kyrie Irving
James Harden / Klay Thompson
Kevin Durant / DeMar DeRozan / Kyle Korver
Anthony Davis / Kenneth Faried
Demarcus Cousins / Andre Drummond

is the team I would go with
I think Curry is likely to play more of the 2 on this team. That's how they've been using him in practice/scrimmages.

[RedBlackAttack]

:oldlol: @ Kyrie making it over Wall. The Duke Bias is real. If Plumlee gets picked over Cousins it will be even more obvious.
Kyrie > Wall

Deal with it.

[CJ Mustard]

Wall can't shoot, he can't make it. You have to be able to shoot if you're a wing player in international play.
No you don't. Rondo played pretty well 4 years ago before he was cut for off the court reasons. Kidd was on multiple Olympic teams. This team has shooting covered. Wall brings more to the table than Kyrie does overall.

Wall didn't make it because he went to Kentucky, while Irving went to Duke.

[CJ Mustard]

Kyrie > Wall

Deal with it.
You don't actually believe that.

[Meticode]

No you don't. Rondo played pretty well 4 years ago before he was cut for off the court reasons. Kidd was on multiple Olympic teams. This team has shooting covered. Wall brings more to the table than Kyrie does overall.

Wall didn't make it because he went to Kentucky, while Irving went to Duke.
Of course they're exceptions. Kidd was a shooter because later in his career he was actually able to hit the outside shot. Wall isn't an exception though. Get over it.

[Dengness9]

He's a playmaker. The team has enough shooting as it is. Wall is also a better all around player than Irving by a solid margin.

While this team is loaded w/ shooting, you can never have enough.

I also wildly disagree with you that Wall is a better all around player by a solid margin. Im not totally in disagreement with some of the things you have said.

But you should know better than to make some grand statement that Wall is much better. They clearly are in the same tier.

[Dengness9]

No you don't. Rondo played pretty well 4 years ago before he was cut for off the court reasons. Kidd was on multiple Olympic teams. This team has shooting covered. Wall brings more to the table than Kyrie does overall.

Wall didn't make it because he went to Kentucky, while Irving went to Duke.


Jason Kidd is one of the best PG's of all time. Not to mention as good as Wall can be with setting up teammates, he has NOTHING on Jkidd as a passer. Kidd was smarter and harder working too IMO.

Can you at least admit that Wall not being able to shoot is some form of a problem?

Team USA has little to no post offense, we need every perimeter player to be able to shoot a little bit if not a lot.

[Dengness9]

No you don't. Rondo played pretty well 4 years ago before he was cut for off the court reasons. Kidd was on multiple Olympic teams. This team has shooting covered. Wall brings more to the table than Kyrie does overall.

Wall didn't make it because he went to Kentucky, while Irving went to Duke.


From what I gathered, Rondo was cut because they had enough PG's and Team USA finds a way to cut certain players but make up excuses out of respect for said player.

Rondo was established and a champ, and Team USA didn't want to embarrass him. Rose beat him out BTW.

Wall and Beal are young and don't need being cut to be covered up because they'll have another chance at making the roster down the road.

[RedBlackAttack]

You don't actually believe that.
I've actually never doubted it. And only this past season has anyone questioned it...

Yeah, I think Kyrie is a flat-out better player and that isn't even factoring in international play, which mandates being able to shoot the basketball. Wall looked pretty awful the other night.

He still tends to get out of control along with his shooting issues. Yeah, it shouldn't be a surprise to anyone that he was left on the cutting room floor. I have nothing against the guy, but Irving is just better, imo.

[Meticode]

How many Bucks players got cut from the team? Oh wait...

[Dengness9]

How many Bucks players got cut from the team? Oh wait...


Really? :rolleyes:

And Jabari will be a team USA member in no time.

[Milbuck]

How many Bucks players got cut from the team? Oh wait...
:rolleyes:

[Meticode]

:rolleyes:
http://media1.break.com/dnet/media/307/743/2743307/0729cb54-6641-44f4-ba6e-60f6a89a2a17.gif

[NuggetsFan]

Kyrie > Wall

Deal with it.

Wall is a way better defender, rebounder, passer. Irving is a better scorer. Really shooting is the one aspect Irving really beats Wall at. Internationally, whatever. Doesn't really matter, Kyrie is probably the better fit. I'd take his shooting.

Does anybody outside of Cleveland actually think Irving is better than Wall? Guess it doesn't matter much anymore, comparisons probably stop next year with LeBron there :lol

[Meticode]

Really? :rolleyes:

And Jabari will be a team USA member in no time.
http://37.media.tumblr.com/562931f7bc60a92128cb1b54f7060153/tumblr_mvyukfs8Yp1rc0af6o1_500.gif

[Meticode]

Wall is a way better defender, rebounder, passer. Irving is a better scorer. Really shooting is the one aspect Irving really beats Wall at. Internationally, whatever. Doesn't really matter, Kyrie is probably the better fit. I'd take his shooting.

Does anybody outside of Cleveland actually think Irving is better than Wall? Guess it doesn't matter much anymore, comparisons probably stop next year with LeBron there :lol
I believe Wall is better, but I think Wall is also in the same teir of PG that Irving is in. That tier includes the names of Wall, Curry, Dragic, Irving, etc. With Curry leading that pack,

[Dengness9]

:rolleyes:


It's funny how people try to rip on the bucks like its gonna hurt feelings.

They have some nice young pieces, another top draft pick(Okafor?) and Milwaukee will really be looking good.

Jabari will be a good if not GREAT player.

Just gotta get Larry Sanders head on his shoulders but might not be possible.

[Legends66NBA7]

Wall blew his chance in that scrimmage, straight up. Millsap, from what I've covered, was getting too bullied by the bigs and while he is a stretch 4, Team USA has enough shooters anyways. They need bigs to stick to being bangers and rebounders.

Beal played well for Team White off the bench, but I believe his cut was going to be obvious due to his lack of size. He's only a 2 guard.

[Dengness9]

http://37.media.tumblr.com/562931f7bc60a92128cb1b54f7060153/tumblr_mvyukfs8Yp1rc0af6o1_500.gif


Ill spare talking shit about Cleveland sports, just funny to me a Cavs fan is ripping on a Bucks fan. Now you got a squad and youre gonna get cocky.

Got it.

[Meticode]

Wall blew his chance in that scrimmage, straight up. Millsap, from what I've covered, was getting too bullied by the bigs and while he is a stretch 4, Team USA has enough shooters anyways. They need bigs to stick to being bangers and rebounders.

Beal played well for Team White off the bench, but I believe his cut was going to be obvious due to his lack of size. He's only a 2 guard.
http://31.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lig4c7a1eb1qcvehpo1_500.gif

[navy]

Kyrie > Wall

Deal with it.
While this may be true lets not pretend Kyrie has proven shit....

[RedBlackAttack]

Wall is a way better defender, rebounder, passer. Irving is a better scorer. Really shooting is the one aspect Irving really beats Wall at. Internationally, whatever. Doesn't really matter, Kyrie is probably the better fit. I'd take his shooting.

Does anybody outside of Cleveland actually think Irving is better than Wall? Guess it doesn't matter much anymore, comparisons probably stop next year with LeBron there :lol
Very simplistic way to look at basketball and just about everyone thought Kyrie was better than Wall prior to this past season, when Kyrie didn't meet his high expectations and Wall exceeded his lesser ones.

And, the Cavs were a mess for much of the season for a myriad of reasons, most of which had nothing to do with Kyrie.

But, as for what Kyrie "does better" than Wall... "Scoring" encompasses quite a bit of the game. He's far more in control, has an infinitely better handle, better balance, is a better finisher, better midrange shooter, better longrange shooter, etc.

We'll see about Kyrie's passing ability now that he actually has guys around him that can score. It is difficult to be both your team's best scorer and assist-man.

And, apparently, there are plenty of people outside of Cleveland that believe Kyrie is better than Wall... several of whom are considered some of the best basketball minds in the world who put together Team USA every couple years.

[Meticode]

Ill spare talking shit about Cleveland sports, just funny to me a Cavs fan is ripping on a Bucks fan. Now you got a squad and youre gonna get cocky.

Got it.
http://wp.streetwise.co/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/Jokes.gif

[Milbuck]

http://media1.break.com/dnet/media/307/743/2743307/0729cb54-6641-44f4-ba6e-60f6a89a2a17.gif
Will bump when Jabari breaks Melo's US Olympic scoring record :pimp:

It's funny how people try to rip on the bucks like its gonna hurt feelings.

They have some nice young pieces, another top draft pick(Okafor?) and Milwaukee will really be looking good.

Jabari will be a good if not GREAT player.

Just gotta get Larry Sanders head on his shoulders but might not be possible.
:cheers:

Doesn't bother me much anymore, I know what we have and what we can do down the road, posters on ISH can't change that. If we get Mudiay..a Mudiay-Giannis-Jabari trio would be filthy.

Meticode's cool though, don't let him troll you :oldlol:

[Thunderfan86]

I hope they cut Kevin Durant next. That Paul George shit got me shook as f*ck :facepalm

[Dengness9]

http://wp.streetwise.co/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/Jokes.gif


Fair enough. But you meant it as a low blow comment. Ill cheers to Michael Scott doe:cheers:

[Legends66NBA7]

By the way, when are the next cuts going to be announced ?

[Meticode]

Fair enough. But you meant it as a low blow comment. Ill cheers to Michael Scott doe:cheers:
https://asheathersworldturns.files.wordpress.com/2014/08/comicvinecom.gif

[SamuraiSWISH]

How many Bucks players got cut from the team? Oh wait...
Chicago boy Jabari Parker is about to be one of the best players in the league soon. You know that right?

Man we have some ballers: Wade, D. Rose, Anthony Davis, Tony Allen, Iman Shumpert and now Jabari Parker

Windy City Wins

:pimp:

[NuggetsFan]

Very simplistic way to look at basketball and just about everyone thought Kyrie was better than Wall prior to this past season, when Kyrie didn't meet his high expectations and Wall exceeded his lesser ones.


Not really. John Wall is far superior defensively. He rebounds the ball better. He's better at getting other involved. Kyrie is a superior shooter and has a better handle. Atleast Wall actually made the playoffs this year too, previously both were just racking up stats on lotto teams in the East.


And, the Cavs were a mess for much of the season for a myriad of reasons, most of which had nothing to do with Kyrie.


Ok.


But, as for what Kyrie "does better" than Wall... "Scoring" encompasses quite a bit of the game. He's far more in control, has an infinitely better handle, better balance, is a better finisher, better midrange shooter, better longrange shooter, etc.


Wall is better in transition, more aggressive at getting into the paint, and is pretty good at many of things you mentioned. I mean Wall scored 1 point less on one less shot? Irving isn't even close to Wall defensively. Wall is better as a passer pretty clearly too. He's comparable to Irving as a scorer.


We'll see about Kyrie's passing ability now that he actually has guys around him that can score. It is difficult to be both your team's best scorer and assist-man.


It is difficult. Just ask John Wall? Who just did that with Washington on his way to the playoffs. Hard to see much going forward. I mean Irving is playing with LeBron and potentially Love. It's like Isiah Thomas and Irving, they'll be in different roles.


And, apparently, there are plenty of people outside of Cleveland that believe Kyrie is better than Wall... several of whom are considered some of the best basketball minds in the world who put together Team USA every couple years.


Yeah much like every sport international is a completely different animal. There building a team, not taking the best individual players. I mean Faried might actually make it over Cousins. I'm guessing Irving's shooting was the key factor. Regardless hardly has anything to do with the NBA.

19/9/4 vs 21/6/4. One player is far superior defensively, the other is awful. One made the playoffs and the 2nd round, the other has yet to actually play in the playoffs. Wall is like 2 years older, age hardly factors into rankings tho or Anthony Davis would be top 3 right now. Easy choice for me anyways.

[Meticode]

Chicago boy Jabari Parker is about to be one of the best players in the league soon. You know that right?

Man we have some ballers: Wade, D. Rose, Anthony Davis, Tony Allen, Iman Shumpert and now Jabari Parker

Windy City Wins

:pimp:
Jesus Christ, it was a joke geared towards CJ Mustard because he was so up in arms over the Wall over Kyrie thing. :oldlol:

[G-train]

It's pretty clear that Wall was a better point guard than Irving last season.
Til something changes (and that can't be proven til the regular season starts) Wall is better than Irving.
Can't get any more obvious than actually playing better all season, and being better intangibles guy as well.

Obviously Team USA guys think that Irving is a better fit for whatever reason.
At least Wall won't be blamed for the Bronze medal.

[RedBlackAttack]

Not really. John Wall is far superior defensively. He rebounds the ball better. He's better at getting other involved. Kyrie is a superior shooter and has a better handle. Atleast Wall actually made the playoffs this year too, previously both were just racking up stats on lotto teams in the East.



Ok.



Wall is better in transition, more aggressive at getting into the paint, and is pretty good at many of things you mentioned. I mean Wall scored 1 point less on one less shot? Irving isn't even close to Wall defensively. Wall is better as a passer pretty clearly too. He's comparable to Irving as a scorer.



It is difficult. Just ask John Wall? Who just did that with Washington on his way to the playoffs. Hard to see much going forward. I mean Irving is playing with LeBron and potentially Love. It's like Isiah Thomas and Irving, they'll be in different roles.



Yeah much like every sport international is a completely different animal. There building a team, not taking the best individual players. I mean Faried might actually make it over Cousins. I'm guessing Irving's shooting was the key factor. Regardless hardly has anything to do with the NBA.

19/9/4 vs 21/6/4. One player is far superior defensively, the other is awful. One made the playoffs and the 2nd round, the other has yet to actually play in the playoffs. Wall is like 2 years older, age hardly factors into rankings tho or Anthony Davis would be top 3 right now. Easy choice for me anyways.
Why are you only using last season as the only barometer for player comparison? Again, the Wizards were a much better fitting team that had much more of a veteran presence than the Cavs. Wall was playing with a starting frontcourt of Gortat and Nene, with Ariza out on the wing hitting jumpers and Beal doing his shooting/scoring thing.

Meanwhile, the Cavs were basically just a hodge-podge of young talent, not to mention the first 30 games were wasted in an attempt to run the offense through Andrew Bynum.

For his career, Kyrie has been a consistently superior, more efficient scorer, and has been pretty clear. Kyrie is also fantastic in transition.

Also, through his first three years (ie where Irving is currently), the Wizards hadn't surpassed the 28-win mark with Wall as their leader. I'll also point out that he is consistently among the highest turnover players in the NBA, which rarely is brought up in these discussions. Wall and Kyrie actually had very similar Assist/Turnover ratios last season.


We'll see how easy this choice is after this coming season, that's all I'm going to say. I think it may be very easy... the other way. Kyrie is going to have a team that makes sense around him for the first time in his career, along with a creative coach who can take advantage of his gifts.

[Legends66NBA7]

Wait, can't Irving be cut ? Or are they going to put Lillard at the 2 guard as well ?

That's crazy to me. You've got have more natural 2's at that position.

[atljonesbro]

Please keep Korver. I want 1 hawk reppin the USA

[Meticode]

Wall is the better point guard right now at this current time based off last season's performance, but he's still in the same tier of point guards Irving is in.

[G-train]

Very simplistic way to look at basketball and just about everyone thought Kyrie was better than Wall prior to this past season, when Kyrie didn't meet his high expectations and Wall exceeded his lesser ones.

Wall had some high expectations on him, and delivered.


And, the Cavs were a mess for much of the season for a myriad of reasons, most of which had nothing to do with Kyrie.

Most of which, but some of which was Irving.


But, as for what Kyrie "does better" than Wall... "Scoring" encompasses quite a bit of the game. He's far more in control, has an infinitely better handle, better balance, is a better finisher, better midrange shooter, better longrange shooter, etc.

Infinitely better handle is an poor statement. In regards to the other categories listed, there is barely enough differential to make up for Irving's deficiencies in defence, leadership, athleticism, etc - based on his latest body of work.

[G-train]

Why are you only using last season as the only barometer for player comparison?

Players can go backwards, for reasons in and out of their control.

[TheMilkyBarKid]

Not happy with wall getting cut. I hope boogie stays in now.

[RedBlackAttack]

Wall had some high expectations on him, and delivered.
Not really. He had incredibly high expectations going into his third season and was underwhelming when he wasn't hurt. Going into his fourth year (last season), expectations had been tempered quite a bit.




Infinitely better handle is an poor statement. In regards to the other categories listed, there is barely enough differential to make up for Irving's deficiencies in defence, leadership, athleticism, etc - based on his latest body of work.
Yes, Irving has infinitely better handles than Wall. One of JW's biggest problems and why he's averaged damn near four turnovers per game as a professional is that he can get out-of-control, where his feet are moving faster than he can dribble. He's also much more of a straight-line slasher, whereas Irving is quicker and has better change-of-direction, which plays into his superior handle.

Frankly, the biggest gap between the two may be in the ball-handling department. Wall isn't anywhere close to Irving there. Not sure what you've seen that tells you otherwise.


As for the rest, let's see what happens this year. There is no doubt in my mind who the better player is. Now the team and coach is in place. I expect him to thrive.

[NuggetsFan]

We'll see how easy this choice is after this coming season, that's all I'm going to say. I think it may be very easy... the other way. Kyrie is going to have a team that makes sense around him for the first time in his career, along with a creative coach who can take advantage of his gifts.

Agree to disagree on the previous points but this interests me. Irving might be a 3rd option and won't be close to being the best player on his team unlike John Wall. I really don't see how Kyrie is considered better next season. He'll have less touches, less responsibility and less of a role now with LeBron.

I seem to recall you always talking about this with I.Thomas vs Irving as well.

[RedBlackAttack]

Agree to disagree on the previous points but this interests me. Irving might be a 3rd option and won't be close to being the best player on his team unlike John Wall. I really don't see how Kyrie is considered better next season. He'll have less touches, less responsibility and less of a role now with LeBron.

I seem to recall you always talking about this with I.Thomas vs Irving as well.
The Cavs' floor spacing has been god awful for the past three seasons. Specifically, the 3 spot has featured the likes of Alonzo Gee and Earl Clark as longterm starters. Then, a Varejao/Thompson frontcourt allowed teams to essentially sit in wait in the paint for any slashing by Kyrie or Dion.

I really don't think "touches" are going to be a problem for Kyrie Irivng, who will still be the team's point guard and not in a Norris Cole/Mario Chalmers sort of way. This is far and away the best PG LeBron has ever played with and there will be adjustments made by both James and Irving.

Then, we potentially have Kevin Love as a floor spacer and presence in the post. Toss in all of the shooters that are lining the streets to play on this team...

The spacing is going to go from horrid to fantastic overnight. I personally think that Irving-James-Love fit together extremely well. Like I said, we'll see what happens. Maybe Irving won't have to score as much, but that only opens up the other facets of his game. Let's just see what happens.

[NuggetsFan]

The Cavs' floor spacing has been god awful for the past three seasons. Specifically, the 3 spot has featured the likes of Alonzo Gee and Earl Clark as longterm starters. Then, a Varejao/Thompson frontcourt allowed teams to essentially sit in wait in the paint for any slashing by Kyrie or Dion.

I really don't think "touches" are going to be a problem for Kyrie Irivng, who will still be the team's point guard and not in a Norris Cole/Mario Chalmers sort of way. This is far and away the best PG LeBron has ever played with and there will be adjustments made by both James and Irving.

Then, we potentially have Kevin Love as a floor spacer and presence in the post. Toss in all of the shooters that are lining the streets to play on this team...

The spacing is going to go from horrid to fantastic overnight. I personally think that Irving-James-Love fit together extremely well. Like I said, we'll see what happens. Maybe Irving won't have to score as much, but that only opens up the other facets of his game. Let's just see what happens.

I agree they fit together really well. Cleveland will be set. I meant more in terms of individually Irving vs Wall. I mean Wall was better this season, and they have been comparable, Kyrie better the year before. Wall will be a franchise guy leading Washington in scoring and assists while Irving is stuck behind LeBron and potentially Love.

Wall should be higher in MVP voting, All-NBA team, have better numbers, have a bigger role. I don't think Irving will sacrifice too much but he's not going to be a 21/7/4 guy this year, more efficient without question because defense's will focus on LeBron more and potentially Love. Another thing that people will look into when they compare the two.

Not saying a 2nd or 3rd option can't be better than a 1st but it changes things for sure.

[RedBlackAttack]

I agree they fit together really well. Cleveland will be set. I meant more in terms of individually Irving vs Wall. I mean Wall was better this season, and they have been comparable, Kyrie better the year before. Wall will be a franchise guy leading Washington in scoring and assists while Irving is stuck behind LeBron and potentially Love.

Wall should be higher in MVP voting, All-NBA team, have better numbers, have a bigger role. I don't think Irving will sacrifice too much but he's not going to be a 21/7/4 guy this year, more efficient without question because defense's will focus on LeBron more and potentially Love. Another thing that people will look into when they compare the two.

Not saying a 2nd or 3rd option can't be better than a 1st but it changes things for sure.
As if Wall wouldn't be a "No. 3 option" playing alongside LeBron and Love? Plus, we haven't even seen these guys play together yet. I personally think Kyrie's assist numbers are going to go through the roof... and he has never really been a turnover machine like Wall, even when he had no shooters around him and he was being asked to carry the team.

I'm as curious as everyone else to see how this works. But, I don't think you can say automatically before the season even starts who is more important to a team. Let's just watch and see.

[NuggetsFan]

As if Wall wouldn't be a "No. 3 option" playing alongside LeBron and Love? I don't really see the argument. Plus, we haven't even seen these guys play together yet. I personally think Kyrie's assist numbers are going to go through the roof... and he has never really been a turnover machine like Wall, even when he had no shooters around him and he was being asked to carry the team.

I'm as curious as everyone else to see how this works. But, I don't think you can say automatically before the season even starts who is more important to a team. Let's just watch and see.

Obviously he would. The argument is roles. You used it with Irving vs I.Thomas having Cousins and Gay. Defense's are going out to stop Irving, they'll focus more on LeBron. Wall will have far more responsibility and thus his numbers are going to be superior most likely. Numbers are usually higher on lotto teams, lower on good teams for All-Stars.

Yet to be seen what happens but Wall is the guy, Irving won't be. That'll have a pretty big effect on the comparison IMO.

[RedBlackAttack]

Obviously he would. The argument is roles. You used it with Irving vs I.Thomas having Cousins and Gay. Defense's are going out to stop Irving, they'll focus more on LeBron. Wall will have far more responsibility and thus his numbers are going to be superior most likely. Numbers are usually higher on lotto teams, lower on good teams for All-Stars.

Yet to be seen what happens but Wall is the guy, Irving won't be. That'll have a pretty big effect on the comparison IMO.
Irving vs. Thomas was always a stupid comparison, tbh. Can't believe people actually went there. :confusedshrug:

I'd say the same thing about a Wall v. Thomas comparison. They're on a different tier.

[NuggetsFan]

Irving vs. Thomas was always a stupid comparison, tbh. Can't believe people actually went there. :confusedshrug:

I'd say the same thing about a Wall v. Thomas comparison. They're on a different tier.

Fair enough. Guess we'll find out soon enough :lol

[niko]

The Cavs' floor spacing has been god awful for the past three seasons. Specifically, the 3 spot has featured the likes of Alonzo Gee and Earl Clark as longterm starters. Then, a Varejao/Thompson frontcourt allowed teams to essentially sit in wait in the paint for any slashing by Kyrie or Dion.

I really don't think "touches" are going to be a problem for Kyrie Irivng, who will still be the team's point guard and not in a Norris Cole/Mario Chalmers sort of way. This is far and away the best PG LeBron has ever played with and there will be adjustments made by both James and Irving.

Then, we potentially have Kevin Love as a floor spacer and presence in the post. Toss in all of the shooters that are lining the streets to play on this team...

The spacing is going to go from horrid to fantastic overnight. I personally think that Irving-James-Love fit together extremely well. Like I said, we'll see what happens. Maybe Irving won't have to score as much, but that only opens up the other facets of his game. Let's just see what happens.
I am going to say something that is a silly way to analyze but i put Love on the Cavs in 2K and was playing against them and the spacing with a decent 5 (someone who can just put the ball back in) is sick with Love. Because when he's on the side with Lebron you have to try to cut off Lebron and it just leaves him so open and then you have Kyrie who can drive and kick and when you collapse and he kicks it to Lebron, everyone is chasing everyone. It's going to be really sick spacing.

[noob cake]

Please keep Korver. I want 1 hawk reppin the USA

Korver is a lock. He is going to be shooting 50% from the international 3.

[HomieWeMajor]

Cavs fans been giving it the large since their boy went back to Ohio

[bdreason]

A little surprised Millsap got cut.

[RedBlackAttack]

I am going to say something that is a silly way to analyze but i put Love on the Cavs in 2K and was playing against them and the spacing with a decent 5 (someone who can just put the ball back in) is sick with Love. Because when he's on the side with Lebron you have to try to cut off Lebron and it just leaves him so open and then you have Kyrie who can drive and kick and when you collapse and he kicks it to Lebron, everyone is chasing everyone. It's going to be really sick spacing.
I know, right? That's how I'm imagining it. Can't believe all this has happened and is happening. I'm waiting for the other shoe to drop... like, Kevin Love gets struck by lightning or something. :-/

[Boarder Patrol]

Im with you on the Plumlee/Cuz thing but you really think Wall should make it over Kyrie?

I dont care if Kyrie's defense is nowhere near Wall levels.

John Wall cannot shoot a fricken basketball. Its pathetic. He has so much talent too. He's a really good player but his inability to shoot is just too much of a weakness compared to the other guards.

Wall shot .351 from 3 and Irving shot .358. Not much of a difference and really illogical to keep Irving considering outside a marginal difference in shooting Wall is a much better passer and defender.

[ljsbb27]

Personally I think the last four cuts will be Drummond, Korver, Hayward and Lillard.

Leaving us a roster of:

Rose-Curry-Irving

Harden - Thompson - Derozan

Durant - Parsons

Davis - Faried

Cousins - Plumlee

[RedBlackAttack]

Wall shot .351 from 3 and Irving shot .358. Not much of a difference and really illogical to keep Irving considering outside a marginal difference in shooting Wall is a much better passer and defender.
Oh please.

No one even defends Wall beyond 15-feet. Defenses will give him a three any time he wants it. Meanwhile, Irving has hovered around 40% from behind the arc for most of his NBA career (borderline elite). Every shot he takes is challenged and he actually stretches the defense just with his presence on the floor. He won the fricking Three Point Contest. He can shoot the ball.

You know how sometimes statistics can lie? This is one of those cases. Wall isn't anywhere close to Irving as a shooter... not from long-range or mid-range.

[andremiller07]

Oh please.

No one even defends Wall beyond 15-feet. Defenses will give him a three any time he wants it. Meanwhile, Irving has hovered around 40% from behind the arc for most of his NBA career (borderline elite). Every shot he takes is challenged and he actually stretches the defense just with his presence on the floor. He won the fricking Three Point Contest. He can shoot the ball.

You know how sometimes statistics can lie? This is one of those cases. Wall isn't anywhere close to Irving as a shooter... not from long-range or mid-range.
Cause it's near impossible and he will destroy them

[RedBlackAttack]

Cause it's near impossible and he will destroy them
...or because they'd prefer he settles for a jumpshot because he isn't a good shooter.

[Legends66NBA7]

Personally I think the last four cuts will be Drummond, Korver, Hayward and Lillard.

Leaving us a roster of:

Rose-Curry-Irving

Harden - Thompson - Derozan

Durant - Parsons

Davis - Faried

Cousins - Plumlee

Lillard will make the team and I just don't see Cousins and Plumlee being on the team together.

[Dengness9]

I love me some Drummond, dude is a monster.

Im not saying he should be on THIS team, but I think he will be a premier rim protector for the next Olympics, and I hope if he gets cut he wont be too discouraged to come back next time USA calls.

[navy]

I love me some Drummond, dude is a monster.

Im not saying he should be on THIS team, but I think he will be a premier rim protector for the next Olympics, and I hope if he gets cut he wont be too discouraged to come back next time USA calls.
Davis....

[Milbuck]

Davis....
Why not both? And if Drummond by 2016 is a 20+/12+ C with monster defense and AD keeps working on that jumper..they could even start together.

[navy]

Why not both? And if Drummond by 2016 is a 20+/12+ C with monster defense and AD keeps working on that jumper..they could even start together.

Durant will probably play the 4. Big lineups are drifting away.

[dc_chilling]

Very simplistic way to look at basketball and just about everyone thought Kyrie was better than Wall prior to this past season, when Kyrie didn't meet his high expectations and Wall exceeded his lesser ones.

And, the Cavs were a mess for much of the season for a myriad of reasons, most of which had nothing to do with Kyrie.

But, as for what Kyrie "does better" than Wall... "Scoring" encompasses quite a bit of the game. He's far more in control, has an infinitely better handle, better balance, is a better finisher, better midrange shooter, better longrange shooter, etc.

We'll see about Kyrie's passing ability now that he actually has guys around him that can score. It is difficult to be both your team's best scorer and assist-man.

And, apparently, there are plenty of people outside of Cleveland that believe Kyrie is better than Wall... several of whom are considered some of the best basketball minds in the world who put together Team USA every couple years.

You are slumming pretty hard on Walls ball handling.

While I agree Irving is a better ball handler, let's not act like Wall is chopped liver. Wall has among the nastiest crossovers in the game and by far the fastest change of direction crossover in transition.

Overall, Wall is simply superior when compared with Irving.

He is a far better athlete, he sees the court better, both runs and protects against the fast break better, and is in another league defensively. He also has proven to be a much better leader.

Irving turns the ball over less and shoots the ball slightly better from the floor.

Wall has become an infinitely better jump shooter since he was drafted, especially from three. I no longer cringe when he pulls up for a jump shot anymore because he became pretty consistent last year.

[El Gato Negro]

Every scrimage i've seen wall looked like crap, he had a chance to beat kyrie for a roster spot and couldn't do it. Not sure what people arnt understanding. why should coach k base his decision on anything but what he sees in practice?

[Threethrows]

Some of you seem to really underestimate how inefficient Wall is. He gets high assists, good defender and good passer. When you look a bit closer though, he's a high usage turnover machine with awful scoring numbers. People need to stop judging PGs by assist numbers, there are so many variables that can go into them. I'm not saying ignore them, but a guy getting 10 a game isn't necessarily a better PG than a guy getting 6. John Wall is actually a pretty bad offensive player compared to the other PGs on Team USA despite his assists, mostly because he can be sloppy with the ball and can't shoot for shit.

Irving and Lillard especially have been playing better defense than what we see from them in the regular season. It helps that they will have reduced roles on the team (if they make it) and have the energy to D up. Both of these guys are also great shooters and more careful with the ball. They get less assists than Wall, but their overall offensive impact is larger. So as long as they play defense for Team USA it's easy to see why they appeal more than Wall. They are both capable passers when they aren't tasked with being the 1 or 2 option.

In short, there's not really any reason to take Wall. Basketball fans have serious issues with looking passed their own bias and just seem to want to believe what other people say about a player they've never bothered to pay attention to. This leads to beliefs like Wall being a level about Lillard and Irving, when in reality it's more like he's behind them.

Even if he's better defensively it's a lot easier for guys playing 5-15 minutes a game to go hard on D than it is for a guy to learn how to shoot.