Are the Knicks a guarantee now to get into playoffs with George out?

[hawkfan]

Discuss.

[r15mohd]

it's a good possibility...who knows how far Melo can take Amare and company. i still think Phil does some heavy shifting before the trade deadline. either they land a big player or rid Amare for a tank season

[Magic731]

They were a guarantee before the injury.

[dubeta]

Melo will mess this up somehow

[Legends66NBA7]

They were a guarantee before the injury.

Majority had them missing it, including the 3 different websites.

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=349400

[Real Men Wear Green]

No EC team with Melo on it should miss the playoffs. But that was also true last year. They have completely new leadership from the start of last year with a new system.

That could be a positive but they may not have the personnel for the triangle yet. Have we ever seen the triangle run with only one good scorer? MJ and Pippen, Shaq and Kobe, Kobe and Gasol...Melo and who?

I would be surprised if Jackson is done making trades this offseason. His problem is that the team only has one major asset. They might get something done at the trade deadline with Stoudamire if they can find an owner that just really hates the luxury tax penalties. Then again Jackson may be aiming to create max space and score in free agency himself. So help may not be coming unless Jackson finds a sucker and that's getting harder to do every year.

I'll say there's no way they're better than the following teams the way are right now:

1. Cavs
2. Bulls
3. Heat
4. Wizards
5. Bobcats
6. Raptors

I'm inclined to put them behind Brooklyn as well but the Nets have questionable leadership (KG is too old, Lopez has been injury-prone, Williams may not like basketball...JJ is alright). Maybe on par with the Hawks, we'll see how Horford returns.

So I'm solidly on the fence. Somewhere between 10th and 8th. Leaning towards saying they miss the postseason but they could pull a trade that puts them in the 6-8 range.

A team with Melo really shouldn't miss the playoffs though. That's crazy. I wouldn't have made this prediction if last season didn't wreck my assumption.

[imdaman99]

They were a guarantee before the injury.
This. Up until last year where everything that could go wrong, did go wrong, Melo had always made the playoffs even in the tough west. Last year was an aberration and not the norm.

[CHi1PriDe]

This. Up until last year where everything that could go wrong, did go wrong, Melo had always made the playoffs even in the tough west. Last year was an aberration and not the norm.

Carmelo had a better supporting cast when he was in Denver. I have a feeling that Detroit will take the last spot. The Knicks defense and rebounding probably got worse this year.

[Lebronxrings]

If melo doesn't wet the bed then sure.

[hawkfan]

No EC team with Melo on it should miss the playoffs. But that was also true last year. They have completely new leadership from the start of last year with a new system.

That could be a positive but they may not have the personnel for the triangle yet. Have we ever seen the triangle run with only one good scorer? MJ and Pippen, Shaq and Kobe, Kobe and Gasol...Melo and who?

I would be surprised if Jackson is done making trades this offseason. His problem is that the team only has one major asset. They might get something done at the trade deadline with Stoudamire if they can find an owner that just really hates the luxury tax penalties. Then again Jackson may be aiming to create max space and score in free agency himself. So help may not be coming unless Jackson finds a sucker and that's getting harder to do every year.

I'll say there's no way they're better than the following teams the way are right now:

1. Cavs
2. Bulls
3. Heat
4. Wizards
5. Bobcats
6. Raptors

I'm inclined to put them behind Brooklyn as well but the Nets have questionable leadership (KG is too old, Lopez has been injury-prone, Williams may not like basketball...JJ is alright). Maybe on par with the Hawks, we'll see how Horford returns.

So I'm solidly on the fence. Somewhere between 10th and 8th. Leaning towards saying they miss the postseason but they could pull a trade that puts them in the 6-8 range.

A team with Melo really shouldn't miss the playoffs though. That's crazy. I wouldn't have made this prediction if last season didn't wreck my assumption.

Shumpert is the most moveable piece.

[Magic731]

People really underrating what Phil has done with this team. Knicks will surprise a lot of people I think.

[ralph_i_el]

That team will play no D and rebound poorly. Unless Melo goes all dirk mode and the Knicks run crisp offense 100% of the time they are going to suck. Calderon should help but he's so bad on D

[kshutts1]

In no order, these will be the best 8 records in the East...

Bulls
Cavs
Raptors
Hornets
Wizards
Hawks
Heat
Nets

Knicks just barely miss the cut, along with Detroit and Indiana.

[Dengness9]

Anyone that calls it a guarantee is a fool.

Its just not that easy. But with the PG injury, if the Knicks dont make it, it will make it all the funnier.

[Dengness9]

People really underrating what Phil has done with this team. Knicks will surprise a lot of people I think.

A lot of people overrate what Phil has done so far.

If i jump on a Knicks forum I'd come away w/ the new info that Jose Calderon, Sam Dalembert, and Cleanthony Early are a new BIG 3, and that THJ has MJ potential and that Shumpert is a trade piece for an all-star.

Phil is starting to change the culture which is great for the Bockers. But let's see what he can do next summer.

This isn't about the playoffs w/ Phil at the helm, its about a championship. There is a lot of work to be done.

[Soundwave]

Knicks were 15-5 in their last 20 games, right around the time Phil got hired or word got out that he was about to be hired.

To me this suggests a team that was underachieving a lot. They should have been in the playoffs last season if they weren't a bunch of goof offs. Now that Phil's there, I think they will all play with at least more pride.

[Real Men Wear Green]

People really underrating what Phil has done with this team. Knicks will surprise a lot of people I think.
How should we rate what he's done? His biggest change so far has been hiring a head coach with no experience. No way to judge that positively or negatively right now. The roster is a little different but if the biggest change is Calderon instead of Felton in the triangle offense which we have yet to see emphasize the point guard how can we be sure that they'll be significantly better? I won't say they can't have improved but there's nothing to judge and no new star brought in for us to be sure they're better.

[HurricaneKid]

How should we rate what he's done? His biggest change so far has been hiring a head coach with no experience. No way to judge that positively or negatively right now. The roster is a little different but if the biggest change is Calderon instead of Felton in the triangle offense which we have yet to see emphasize the point guard how can we be sure that they'll be significantly better? I won't say they can't have improved but there's nothing to judge and no new star brought in for us to be sure they're better.

No, the biggest change was shipping out their sole interior presence in Tyson Chandler. Now he wasn't very good last year and was due a fortune but without him there they have no hope of defending the basket. As it stands right now they are a worse team than they were last year.

AND the East, while there is not one single elite team in the conference, is far deeper than it was last year.

[Real Men Wear Green]

No, the biggest change was shipping out their sole interior presence in Tyson Chandler. Now he wasn't very good last year and was due a fortune but without him there they have no hope of defending the basket. As it stands right now they are a worse team than they were last year.

AND the East, while there is not one single elite team in the conference, is far deeper than it was last year.
You have a point on paper but last year Chandler missed 27 games, and that number doesn't factor however many games he was laboring to contribute due to nagging injury. They brought in Dalembert, a decent defensive presence who could be viewed as an inferior version of Chandler. So I'm not sure how much their center position was downgraded vs what they got from Chandler last year. Chandler may play way better than Dalembert this season and make the deal look terrible but I'm just comparing Dalembert to what Chandler did last season because we're talking about how much the Knicks did or did not improve.

[hawksdogsbraves]

No EC team with Melo on it should miss the playoffs. But that was also true last year. They have completely new leadership from the start of last year with a new system.

That could be a positive but they may not have the personnel for the triangle yet. Have we ever seen the triangle run with only one good scorer? MJ and Pippen, Shaq and Kobe, Kobe and Gasol...Melo and who?

I would be surprised if Jackson is done making trades this offseason. His problem is that the team only has one major asset. They might get something done at the trade deadline with Stoudamire if they can find an owner that just really hates the luxury tax penalties. Then again Jackson may be aiming to create max space and score in free agency himself. So help may not be coming unless Jackson finds a sucker and that's getting harder to do every year.

I'll say there's no way they're better than the following teams the way are right now:

1. Cavs
2. Bulls
3. Heat
4. Wizards
5. Bobcats
6. Raptors

I'm inclined to put them behind Brooklyn as well but the Nets have questionable leadership (KG is too old, Lopez has been injury-prone, Williams may not like basketball...JJ is alright). Maybe on par with the Hawks, we'll see how Horford returns.

So I'm solidly on the fence. Somewhere between 10th and 8th. Leaning towards saying they miss the postseason but they could pull a trade that puts them in the 6-8 range.

A team with Melo really shouldn't miss the playoffs though. That's crazy. I wouldn't have made this prediction if last season didn't wreck my assumption.

We were better without our All-Star center, I don't know how the Knicks get better than us if he's healthy :confusedshrug:

[boozehound]

Call me crazy, but I still think the pacers are a playoff team. Not a top 4 seed, but in the playoffs. Knicks should be, but they probably fail.

[boozehound]

here is my view

bulls
cavs
raptors
heat
wizards
bobcats
hawks
pacers

with NJN, NYK, DET (homer pick but who knows) possibly slipping in.

[ImKobe]

No EC team with Melo on it should miss the playoffs. But that was also true last year. They have completely new leadership from the start of last year with a new system.

That could be a positive but they may not have the personnel for the triangle yet. Have we ever seen the triangle run with only one good scorer? MJ and Pippen, Shaq and Kobe, Kobe and Gasol...Melo and who?

I would be surprised if Jackson is done making trades this offseason. His problem is that the team only has one major asset. They might get something done at the trade deadline with Stoudamire if they can find an owner that just really hates the luxury tax penalties. Then again Jackson may be aiming to create max space and score in free agency himself. So help may not be coming unless Jackson finds a sucker and that's getting harder to do every year.

I'll say there's no way they're better than the following teams the way are right now:

1. Cavs
2. Bulls
3. Heat
4. Wizards
5. Bobcats
6. Raptors

I'm inclined to put them behind Brooklyn as well but the Nets have questionable leadership (KG is too old, Lopez has been injury-prone, Williams may not like basketball...JJ is alright). Maybe on par with the Hawks, we'll see how Horford returns.

So I'm solidly on the fence. Somewhere between 10th and 8th. Leaning towards saying they miss the postseason but they could pull a trade that puts them in the 6-8 range.

A team with Melo really shouldn't miss the playoffs though. That's crazy. I wouldn't have made this prediction if last season didn't wreck my assumption.

Phil ran the tri quite well when MJ retired and Bulls won 55 games next season with Pip as their leading scorer

mid 2000s Lakers weren't that great in the tri but managed to make the Playoffs with Phil there ( missed 04-05, without Phil )

[Nets fan 93]

I hate saying this because I can't predict anything... But if Lopez is healthy the whole season.... No way the nets are under the 8 seed. Lopez Johnson and Deron won 49 games two seasons ago as the three best players

[kshutts1]

Call me crazy, but I still think the pacers are a playoff team. Not a top 4 seed, but in the playoffs. Knicks should be, but they probably fail.
Ok, you're crazy.

The Pacers lost their two best players, and have Stuckey to show for it.

[kshutts1]

I hate saying this because I can't predict anything... But if Lopez is healthy the whole season.... No way the nets are under the 8 seed. Lopez Johnson and Deron won 49 games two seasons ago as the three best players
People are sleeping on Brooklyn so bad.

[hawksdogsbraves]

People are sleeping on Brooklyn so bad.

I sort of agree, it all depends on health though. If Lopez comes back healthy and Deron somehow gets healthy they could be the 3 seed. If not, they could easily miss the playoffs. Pierce was pretty important for that team last year, and nobody on the roster is getting any better other than maybe Plumlee.

[Legends66NBA7]

I hate saying this because I can't predict anything... But if Lopez is healthy the whole season.... No way the nets are under the 8 seed. Lopez Johnson and Deron won 49 games two seasons ago as the three best players

That was 2 seasons ago, though. Lot has changed since then, as the East has become deeper and they aren't even the favourites to come out on top of their division.

Lopez is coming of his second major injury and Williams had double ankle surgery. I'm going to predict them not being as good as they were 2 years ago, even if they stay healthy (very doubtful). Johnson would have to carry more of the workload and I don't know if he can do that anymore night in and night out.

But with all that said, I think they can get to the playoffs. Besides, they don't have any picks next year, even if they miss the playoffs ?

[Real Men Wear Green]

We were better without our All-Star center, I don't know how the Knicks get better than us if he's healthy :confusedshrug:
That's valid. I guess I'm just stuck on the idea that a team with Melo shouldn't be falling out of the playoff picture.
Phil ran the tri quite well when MJ retired and Bulls won 55 games next season with Pip as their leading scorer

mid 2000s Lakers weren't that great in the tri but managed to make the Playoffs with Phil there ( missed 04-05, without Phil )Forgot about this team, but most of those players had been running the triangle for years. Right now the Knicks are a bunch of guys with no experience in the system.

[hawksdogsbraves]

That's valid. I guess I'm just stuck on the idea that a team with Melo shouldn't be falling out of the playoff picture.Forgot about this team, but most of those players had been running the triangle for years. Right now the Knicks are a bunch of guys with no experience in the system.

I agree with that sentiment, but the Knicks are a pretty horrible team with a coach who's never coached and a system that nobody knows how to run.

[Nastradamus]

The Knicks have some potential.


Shumpert and Smith had knee surgeries, both should be fully healed now. That should help

Amare seems healthy now. He'll never be the same, but if he can produce similar to last year, that's a big plus.

Hardaway Jr is a year removed from being a rookie. Should be even better.

Calderon is a big upgrade as a shooter and playmaker. Bad defender, but Felton isn't great anyways.

Bargs sucks, but might be better in the triangle.

Dalembert can be pretty close to Chandler. That will be key. Especially if he just plays all 82 games, or close.

Someone like Larkin or Early stepping up would be nice too

[Milbuck]

Not at all..they have a good shot, but I wouldn't be surprised if they miss it again.

Bulls
Cavs
Wizards
Raptors
Hornets
Heat
Hawks

Are all better imo. Then you have the Pistons who could improve through Drummond and KCP breaking out, and obviously bringing in SVG as a legit coach who knows how to use big men.

I'd say it's between Detroit, NY, and Brooklyn..I guess NY should make it, but people are sleeping on the Pistons.

[Nets fan 93]

That was 2 seasons ago, though. Lot has changed since then, as the East has become deeper and they aren't even the favourites to come out on top of their division.

Lopez is coming of his second major injury and Williams had double ankle surgery. I'm going to predict them not being as good as they were 2 years ago, even if they stay healthy (very doubtful). Johnson would have to carry more of the workload and I don't know if he can do that anymore night in and night out.

But with all that said, I think they can get to the playoffs. Besides, they don't have any picks next year, even if they miss the playoffs ?
I know. East has changed a lot. Even the nets have changed a lot. But remember this. Brook came back from the same injury and had a career year. And hopefully the surgery on Deron's ankles is for the better.

And they have their own draft pick. But Atlanta has the right to swap picks

[smoovegittar]

Daily Knickz Post. Stay tuned for updates... :facepalm

[niko]

No. Why would we be guaranteed?

[niko]

I know. East has changed a lot. Even the nets have changed a lot. But remember this. Brook came back from the same injury and had a career year. And hopefully the surgery on Deron's ankles is for the better.

And they have their own draft pick. But Atlanta has the right to swap picks

Nets look like they are going to lean on Brook. If there is not minutes restrictions, back to back restrictions, things like that his career will be short. Daily they say how good he looks, he has a degenerative problem, it's only a problem 30 games in, not ten minutes after surgery. It's baffling to me how they want to paint it like he's a huge part of the team this year. Do you know he has trouble walking in his new shoes? Not it hurts, it's difficult to do because they balance him differently.

Brook can be uber role player, he cannot be a 25-30 minuts starter every night. His foot will snap.

[buddha]

people underestimate how bad of a coach Mike Woodson was.

[bigt]

Not at all..they have a good shot, but I wouldn't be surprised if they miss it again.

Bulls
Cavs
Wizards
Raptors
Hornets
Heat
Hawks

Are all better imo. Then you have the Pistons who could improve through Drummond and KCP breaking out, and obviously bringing in SVG as a legit coach who knows how to use big men.

I'd say it's between Detroit, NY, and Brooklyn..I guess NY should make it, but people are sleeping on the Pistons.

Came here to post pretty much this exactly. Barring injuries Hawks should be all but a guarantee to make the 8. Really the 8th spot is a dogfight between those three teams. New York has the best player of that bunch, but I'm not convinced by their lineup yet. A lot will depend on the return of Lopez and the Piston's improvement under SVG. That 8th spot is no guarantee now Paul George is out.

[poido123]

Not a guarantee, no.

[imdaman99]

A lot of people overrate what Phil has done so far.

If i jump on a Knicks forum I'd come away w/ the new info that Jose Calderon, Sam Dalembert, and Cleanthony Early are a new BIG 3, and that THJ has MJ potential and that Shumpert is a trade piece for an all-star.

Phil is starting to change the culture which is great for the Bockers. But let's see what he can do next summer.

This isn't about the playoffs w/ Phil at the helm, its about a championship. There is a lot of work to be done.
Link me to 1 place that says any of that shit. I've never heard anyone mention any of that sort. People stay making shit up :facepalm

Shump is da bess tho :rockon:

[niko]

Link me to 1 place that says any of that shit. I've never heard anyone mention any of that sort. People stay making shit up :facepalm

Shump is da bess tho :rockon:
Knick fans overrate the rooks sometimes but they are generally negative. Over negative at times. That they'd be declaring Calderon part of a big three, etc. is ridiculous, I personally think they are too negative right now on Phil

[hawkfan]

Hawks still have about 6 million in cap space left.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Bulls
Cavs
Wizards
Raptors
Hornets
Heat
Hawks

Are Better

Detroit, Brooklyn, Indiana,

Are possibly better..So no they aren't guaranteed