The GREATEST All-Around Player: Bird vs LeBron

[mehyaM24]

the 2 greatest ALL AROUND players post shotclock era. bird might be the greatest offensive player ever not named magic, however lebron has the edge on defense AND played with worse teammates /supporting casts.

competition in the 80s may have been better, defense slightly worse, but overall i think its pretty close.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21iS1nvan1k

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Bird is a pretty underrated defender (made a few all defensive teams), but the fact you can put Bron on just about anyone in your starting lineup (testament to how bad these bigs are today) gives him a pretty distinct advantage, as does his athleticism.

I would probably go w/ Bron, but I also think Oscar Robertson should get more recognition. Despite his versatility, guy seems to always be left outta these discussions.

[played0ut]

>LeBron has the most raw talent out of all SF's (and virtually ALL NBA players in History, aside from Shaq and Wilt).
>Bird has slightly higher BBIQ


>LeBron's edge is his insane genetic gifts.
>Bird's edge was his absolutely flawless basketball fundamentals (Lebron's is pretty good too) and ferocious competitiveness and uncompromising will to win. That edge is the difference between all-time greats and legends.



Oh, and on Bird's defense. He was underrated, yeah, but had more trouble with man-to-man defense due to lack of lateral movement speed.

[CavaliersFTW]

Really? Michael Jordan? Oscar Robertson? What the heck is your criteria if they are not superior to Lebron and Bird as all around players!? What about guys like Elgin Baylor or Rick Barry, what can Lebron and Bird do on the floor that they couldn't?

[CavaliersFTW]

OH, I see now... OP posted a link to a skip bayless discussion :facepalm

http://youtu.be/rjNS_oYE92E

Baylor is just as good an "all around" player as Lebron or Bird. They won't mention him so I will. Guys like Oscar and Jordan were even better all around players.

[mehyaM24]

Really? Michael Jordan? Oscar Robertson? What the heck is your criteria if they are not superior to Lebron and Bird as all around players!? What about guys like Elgin Baylor or Rick Barry, what can Lebron and Bird do on the floor that they couldn't?

what? so now lebron doesn't have an argument? :facepalm

lebron's defense alone is why he should get the nod over oscar(his 3PT shooting would be next in line).

i dont think jordan was the all around player bird was. jordan was great. one of the best scorers ever, but he never made his teammates better.... not to the degree lebron does or bird did.

lebron took 2 teams to the eastern conference finals AND finals that literally had no business being there. mo williams,mike brown,varejao,gibson,jamison? SMH.

[mehyaM24]

>LeBron has the most raw talent out of all SF's (and virtually ALL NBA players in History, aside from Shaq and Wilt).
>Bird has slightly higher BBIQ


>LeBron's edge is his insane genetic gifts.
>Bird's edge was his absolutely flawless basketball fundamentals (Lebron's is pretty good too) and ferocious competitiveness and uncompromising will to win. That edge is the difference between all-time greats and legends.



Oh, and on Bird's defense. He was underrated, yeah, but had more trouble with man-to-man defense due to lack of lateral movement speed.

good post. who would you take though?

[ArbitraryWater]

LOL at Elgin Baylor and Rick Barry :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

Homerism at it's finest.. Baylor didn't even know that West was the best player and cost his team chips, while Barry was the original inefficient chucker... A poor man's Kobe. Please.

[CavaliersFTW]

what? so now lebron doesn't have an argument? :facepalm

lebron's defense alone is why he should get the nod over oscar(his 3PT shooting would be next in line). i dont think jordan was the all around player bird was. jordan was great. one of the best scorers ever, but he never made his teammates better.... not to the degree lebron does or bird did. lebron took 2 teams to the eastern conference finals AND finals that literally had no business being there. mo williams,mike brown,varejao,gibson,jamison? SMH.
And his post game and inside game is why he shouldn't, add too it rebounding for Baylor. Every player in the 'all-around greatest' category has things you could argue over the next guy, there are things Baylor and Oscar did better than Lebron. Sure, Lebron is in the discussion. But he's not just there with Bird, like you implied with your thread title and link to Skip Bayless. You should know better, Skip is in the entertainment business, he gets paid to mention current players, and only the past players fresh in peoples minds. He doesn't care about bringing up others who deserve the mentions, but I do so that's what I did.

[CavaliersFTW]

LOL at Elgin Baylor and Rick Barry :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

Homerism at it's finest.. Baylor didn't even know that West was the best player and cost his team chips, while Barry was the original inefficient chucker... A poor man's Kobe. Please.
lol no,

speaking of Kobe though, he's also in this discussion

[CavaliersFTW]

All anyone needs to know in this thread is that OP's inspiration for excluding a long laundry list of valid "greatest all-around player" candidates was Skip Bayless :oldlol:

[CavaliersFTW]

Because his defense was so apparent in 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2010, 2011, 2012 and 2013... right?

Want me to pull out Phil's quotes? And those were about his defensive "prime" and already suggested he doesn't deserve the all-defense first teams
You are liable to get chain negged again, careful :lol

[ArbitraryWater]

You are liable to get chain negged again, careful :lol

lol true.. will delet and apologize

[mehyaM24]

All anyone needs to know in this thread is that OP's inspiration for excluding a long laundry list of valid "greatest all-around player" candidates was Skip Bayless :oldlol:

it was the only bird vs lebron discussion i could find on youtube :confusedshrug:

you act like those guys haven't covered basketball since you were in your diapers.

[CavaliersFTW]

it was the only bird vs lebron discussion i could find on youtube :confusedshrug:

you act like those guys haven't covered basketball since you were in your diapers.
they are entertainers with a journalism background, they get paid to say Lebron's name a certain number of times a day on tv, they don't get paid to give people history lessons

[CavaliersFTW]

You want to listen to a non-entertainer and an expert mind in the field talk about basketball, listen to the past legends, past coaches/players etc that have seen a lot. Journalists on ESPN only mention or show what gets them paid.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JMHyBqwCOYw

[CavaliersFTW]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9JttE4UT74k

[knickswoman]

2 of the most overrated players. LOL

[Lebronxrings]

lebron and its not even close.

Bird = a poor mans durant.

[knickswoman]

lebron and its not even close.

Bird = a poor mans durant.

Then clearly you don't know sht about basketball

[played0ut]

good post. who would you take though?

Honestly? Bird.

Roundball said it best when comparing Lebron and MJ's impact. Pop Lebron on a crappy team and he can possibly give them more wins. But if you want to make a good team great? MJ would push his team to the top better than Lebron.


Bird vs Lebron

I think Lebron can garner more wins for a crappy team than Bird. But it's honestly the intangibles that will bring them to multiple championships. Bird (cut from same cloth as MJ/Russell/West) will DEMAND his team to put in the effort, and DEMAND his team to adopt a focused mind to win or die trying. That's my ONLY knock on Lebron-- he's not ferociously competitive enough and too nice of a guy to will his team to the next level.

Look at the '14 finals. He played splendidly. His teammates played like they were satisfied with two rings (which is still great).


I'm so ****ing annoyed that I lost the link to havlicek's quote, but here it is paraphrased:



"Trying to 3-peat is physically and mentally exhausting. You're tired and you've already proven yourselves and won 2.

But do you want to rest? Or do you want to make history?"


I'm picking Bird because he would motivate/force his team to 'make history', as opposed to Lebron.







Your thoughts?

[Round Mound]

Fundamentaly Skill Wise and B-Ball IQ Wise? Bird
Talent and Athlete Wise? Lebron

Big 0 Was A Mix of Both. So Maybe Big 0

[CavaliersFTW]

Fundamentaly Skill Wise and B-Ball IQ Wise? Bird
Talent and Athlete Wise? Lebron

Big 0 Was A Mix of Both. So Maybe Big 0
That reminds me, sir Charles is also in the mix of this discussion

[KirbyPls]

Honestly? Bird.

Roundball said it best when comparing Lebron and MJ's impact. Pop Lebron on a crappy team and he can possibly give them more wins. But if you want to make a good team great? MJ would push his team to the top better than Lebron.


Bird vs Lebron

I think Lebron can garner more wins for a crappy team than Bird. But it's honestly the intangibles that will bring them to multiple championships. Bird (cut from same cloth as MJ/Russell/West) will DEMAND his team to put in the effort, and DEMAND his team to adopt a focused mind to win or die trying. That's my ONLY knock on Lebron-- he's not ferociously competitive enough and too nice of a guy to will his team to the next level.

Look at the '14 finals. He played splendidly. His teammates played like they were satisfied with two rings (which is still great).


I'm so ****ing annoyed that I lost the link to havlicek's quote, but here it is paraphrased:



"Trying to 3-peat is physically and mentally exhausting. You're tired and you've already proven yourselves and won 2.

But do you want to rest? Or do you want to make history?"


I'm picking Bird because he would motivate/force his team to 'make history', as opposed to Lebron.







Your thoughts?

Interesting that Bird has only one more ring and couldn't repeat with stacked teams, and yet Lebron repeated and may well win as many or more rings than Bird.

[Dragic4Life]

Toss-up.

But I'll take Lebron if I were a GM.

[JohnFreeman]

LeBron

[houston]

lebron is better than bird dude ain't even 30 yet lol

[played0ut]

Interesting that Bird has only one more ring and couldn't repeat with stacked teams, and yet Lebron repeated and may well win as many or more rings than Bird.

heh that's what happens when you go up against 2 top-5 GOATs.

[LeBird]

I take Bird simply because the things he's better than Lebron at are more important for basketball than the things Lebron is better than Bird at.

[Dragic4Life]

I take Bird simply because the things he's better than Lebron at are more important than the things Lebron are better than Bird at.
Name these "more important" things please. Please.

[AnaheimLakers24]

bird is better. kobe is better than both though

[Jlamb47]

Bird> Lebron

Bird would be 3/5 in Lebrons position not choking away 2011

[Dragic4Life]

Bird> Lebron

Bird would be 3/5 in Lebrons position not choking away 2011
Lebron > Bird.

Lebron would 5-peat with prime Mchale and prime Parish.

[ArbitraryWater]

Bird> Lebron

Bird would be 3/5 in Lebrons position not choking away 2011
Actually, Bird would be 2/5, because his 1981 performance won't win him shit in '07.. Heck, he won't even make the final.. And shooting 40% won't get him rings either.

Offensively, these 2 are the most complete, ever... Big O then.

[LeBird]

Name these "more important" things please. Please.

Well, scoring wise I'd say they're pretty level. But Bird is a better rebounder, passer and equal as a team defender. The one place Lebron has a marked lead over Bird is 1v1 defending. But in basketball, 1v1 defending isn't as important as team defending.

And since basketball is simply not about athleticism, basketball skills matter and Bird is arguably the most skilled player of all time. Lebron is very skilled but he makes up a lot of ground for his lack of skill through his physical prowess (his getting to the rim and having a high efficiency is because of that). Time will tell how he deals with this in his declining physical stage.

Lebron is a better ball carrier than Bird but I don't think this facet matters much and it's kind of an apples and oranges comparison in this respect. Would you rather have an ultra-efficient off the ball player like Bird or one who can play as a de-facto PG like Lebron? I guess it depends on your team's needs; but Bird didn't need an especially good PG. Any PG could play with him and Bird himself could do the playmaking from the forward position.

[Champ]

Actually, Bird would be 2/5, because his 1981 performance won't win him shit in '07.. Heck, he won't even make the final.. And shooting 40% won't get him rings either.

http://www.nba.com/video/channels/nba_tv/2011/11/20/1981_bos_hou_finals_gm6_recap.nba/

[Champ]

http://www.collectors-society.com/usercontent/images/article_images/SI_110981_large.jpg

[SHAQisGOAT]

Larry Bird...

Better shooter from pretty much everywhere, better off-ball in various ways, better pure passer, better rebounder and hustle player, higher IQ, better post-game, better use of both hands from close range, better footwork, could work with any type of teammate any type of strategy and be dominant in many ways, better team defender (not overall defender though, mostly due to athleticism, or better yet lateral quickness)...

Very close but quite clear.

[SHAQisGOAT]

Lebron > Bird.

Lebron would 5-peat with prime Mchale and prime Parish.

:roll:

LeBron couldn't even win more than 2 after joining two already established superstars in the league (one a top5 player)... How the **** would he win 5 building from the ground up with a previously shitty team, going up against some of the greatest teams ever?? Gimme a break child :rolleyes: :facepalm

Y'all love to name names (plenty that Bird "made"), say 'stacked this and that', not even realizing how the team was built, how they were before, without and after Larry (team and players), level of certain players at a certain time, competition they/he was facing, what Bird did (carrying them many times)... And, again, LeBron couldn't even win right after joining two already established superstars, one a top5 player, nor did he win more than two, then quickly jumped ship :oldlol:




Actually, Bird would be 2/5, because his 1981 performance won't win him shit in '07.. Heck, he won't even make the final.. And shooting 40% won't get him rings either.

Offensively, these 2 are the most complete, ever... Big O then.

Always dickriding LeBron to the max, huh? :lol Mentioning 1981/2007, how about 2011? :oldlol:
I'd take sophomore Bird's Finals (leading a previously shitty team and actually winning it all, with no superstar level talent on his team) over prime LeBron's Finals (in 2011 when he was at his best and couldn't even win after joining two established superstars, one a top5 player)... Don't even get me started about 2007 :roll:

Larry in LeBron's position has at least 3 rings by now, easily.